Submitted by dimitrios10 on Tue, 05/29/2018 - 17:10
I am curious if you guys like DonaldTrump, or do you hate him?
" ...... Complain all you like about Murdoch, but we don't have to buy his news...and he has helped both sides depending on how he judges competency......it's hard to argue he was wrong on both Hawk and Howard ...... ".
You are correct here Blob, I don't buy Murdoch media. Further Murdoch did support Hawke but not on the basis of his competency (which he was away) it was because he was after some sort of media reform that favoured his business. Well known/recognised at the time. Howard also bent over and bared his arse for him in that regard.
Murdoch always asks for dividend for his political support.
"...Complain all you like about Murdoch, but we don't have to buy his news...and he has helped both sides depending on how he judges competency......it's hard to argue he was wrong on both Hawk and Howard..."
Dead right blob - well part of it anyway - murdoch was no issue at all for the perpetually outraged when he was behind hawke. Howard well, let's not go there.
But it does annoy the fuck out of me how much of a fuss is made about murdoch press these days. Yep he's a big monilithic opinion piece, but clearly there is a market for it, which shows its representative of something. And, really its market is only shrinking with new technology, so any percieved influence is fastly diminishing. Yet apparently murdoch is the evil mastermind controlling everything (which he kind of is...a little anyway - but in reality, people have more choice and free will than ever regarding media)
". Right wing Internet media came about as response to leftist homogeneity. It is not about balance but a necessary counterbalance..."
This is the interesting thing. Left wing media would argue that they are generally innocent of any imbalance. And that, any perceived imbalance is just the abc/nyt trying to counterbalance the rabid bias of murdoch and co. Also, that the slip, to what is now more propaganda from both sides, rather than reporting of the news, is the result of 'liberal' press chasing fox news down a fake news rabbit hole of deceit.
Yes fox news changed the landscape.
But, I would argue that the 'liberal' press long ago scurried past the fox in that rabbit hole. Gouging, Kicking, and scratching it's way past in the race to the bottom. Yes fox news is bias and trashy, but at least they don't try and hide it, they own it. Whereas the other side, it's all diversions, deceit and denial. And has been for some time.
I'm not a classic, sanctimonious progressive as such, rather a pragmatic (mostly) centrist individual who endeavours to listen and learn from varying opinions. I'm progressive on certain environmental issues, worry madly about overpopulation of our extremely fragile desert nation, species loss, preservation of our coastal littoral heritage, contamination of ancient seed stock by big GM agribusiness and overall resource depletion. I care about the plight of indigenous Australians and often work closely with them which I enjoy very much. I've never voted Liberal-Nats or minor parties before . . . but that doesn't make me a progressive either. I'm conservative in many other areas in a time of rapidly slipping moral and ethical standards.
As much as I enjoy both stations at times for their content, I will freely say that the (Australian) ABC and SBS is packed to the rafters with a strong (mandatory) leaning and entrenched biased left culture of middle class journalists who live in a bubble, are punch drunk internationalists and believe they are holier than thou - and by dint of beliefs more intelligent than the unwashed masses. They (management) can argue all they like but constantly fail to deliver a range of voices in this vital area of democracy. I could name names and programmes but it is essentially an exercise in futility. Authentic diversity of views and opinions have long been censured and it is infuriating but typical of other services around the world marching to the same drum.
So spuddy, what opinions exactly are suppressed? I hear a range of views across mainstream media.
I’m with you word for word , Spuddy.
I like the cut of your jib. What is really nice is that now I can kick back knowing that my point is being put across.....by you.
Views that are suppressed or given little weight often include points many of us might find unpalatable or contrary to our own views - alternative views on Christianity versus atheism, contentious and detailed points of view on climate change - the other voice, bone loony or measured, being given a truly fair sounding board. Immigration, a sacred cow that needs to be challenged without fear or favour - those questioning key aspects of immigration policy are smugly ridiculed by(the aforementioned agencies) of the electronic fourth estate and dismissed out of hand or worse.
Population policy is one of the greatest and pressing issues of our age, and the implications for future generations, as adaptable or resilient as they may or may not be, are enormous; much of the media ignore the reality and share the proscenium with the future plundering growth obsessed corporate arena. The played down, suppressed/deescalated reportage of major racial tensions and events in Europe - Auntie does this continually. The greater emphasis placed on calling out the frailties, follies and fuck-ups of conservative parliamentarians; though I'm not an acolyte of any of them as such, this is a seemingly congenital habit.
Murdoch does not have the fine qualities of his mother - and she knew this - but his Australian broadsheet gives us Philip Adams, Peter Van Onselen and Greg Sheridan and numerous other voices in the one gig and probably remains one of the more sober and balanced organs in the English speaking world. The late, great cartoonist, Bill Leak, courageous and hilarious in his satire, vilified constantly by the (always correct )moral arbiters biting at his ankles.
Nothing there spuddy that is not debated openly and regularly across a variety of outlets. Ridicule and satire are part of robust debate and used liberally on all sides. The problems in Europe have been dealt with objectively and in detail on SBS nightly news. The Australian does employ some decent ethical journalists but what about the Daily Telegraph which is a low life exploitative tabloid arsewipe? If you want to understand how low Murdoch can go look up "Milly Dowler" on your favourite search engine.
Must admit I have never read the Daily Telegraph or even held a copy - sounds pretty down market; tabloids are sad and crippling. SBS is robustly defensive and hagiographic on all things multi-culti, but their World Movies and Scandinavian Noir series are excellent. Thanks for the Murdoch heads up . . . will go and have a look-see. I find some good fairly balanced lyric in Germany's Der Spiegel for European news. I guess it's more necessary than ever to read widely and question much.
Stunet says 'I watched a THIRD of the tape....nothing there to worry about..'
( paraphrasing for brevity not distortion)
Well that's helpful...
"00:49:10) An employee asks if Google is willing to “invest in grassroots, hyper-local efforts to bring tools and services and understanding of Google products and knowledge” so that people can “make informed decisions that are best for themselves.” Pichai’s response: Google will ensure its “educational products” reach “segments of the population [they] are not [currently] fully reaching.”
(00:54:33) An employee asks what Google is going to do about “misinformation” and “fake news” shared by “low-information voters.” Pichai responds by stating that “investments in machine learning and AI” are a “big opportunity” to fix the problem.
(00:56:12) Responding to an audience member, Walker says Google must ensure the rise of populism doesn’t turn into “a world war or something catastrophic … and instead is a blip, a hiccup.”
(00:58:22) Brin compares Trump voters to supporters of fascism and communism, linking the former movement to “boredom,” which Brin previously linked to Trump voters. “It sort of sneaks up sometimes, really bad things” says Brin.
(01:01:15) A Google employee states: “speaking to white men, there’s an opportunity for you right now to understand your privilege” and urges employees to “go through the bias-busting training, read about privilege, read about the real history of oppression in our country.” He urges employees to “discuss the issues you are passionate about during Thanksgiving dinner and don’t back down and laugh it off when you hear the voice of oppression speak through metaphors.” Every executive on stage – the CEO, CFO, two VPs and the two Co-founders – applaud the employee."
I need some bias busting training
spuddy I find SBS usually well balanced. Their brief is multi-culturalism but I remember them putting some pretty direct questions to members of the Melbourne Sudanese community about gang behaviour. If you see something that you think was biased or unbalanced put it up and I will have a look. I don't watch a lot of SBS or ABC current affairs programs as they usually just rehash opinions I have read elsewhere but I usually watch SBS news.
"I need some bias busting training"
You wont get that reading Breitbart
Your premise is total BS.
You were extreme left and now a Trump supported hailing Breitbart, total BS unless it was a change of Meds.
ABC one of the most trusted news sources in Australia versus a mouth that just got done for vexations behavior....total BS.
Poor hard done by Trump treated unfairly....wasn't he a leading proponent of the birther movement, crooked Hillary anyone, lock her up?
Trump surrounded himself with criminals complementing his criminal behavior how could a enquiry like Mueller get started under a Republican administration, it wasn't an accident.
And the economy FFS, if you throw $1.5 trillion of stimulus at the rich and business with no regard for debt then you are a genus.
Sypkan and Spuddyjack
I agree on all counts...
They will tell you your open minded balance is not a problem....then call you a facist....so who are the real fascists?
Urbanisation has already destroyed the natural character of much of the East Coast
Is it Alan Jones or SBS that is actually making it hard for Labor and the Liberals to keep pumping 100,000 more people into Sydney each year?.
Are you obfuscating again?.
Do you think the ABC and SBS have left wing bias or not?.
Do you understand that the charter of the ABC requires it to be balanced?.
The level of bias in our public broadcasters is criminal. Be honest about it.
Those who excuse the bias while saying they defend the ABC are the in fact the ones endangering the ABC
They're smoking something
Blob if you believe there is bias please give specific examples and I will try to view them. If you read my comment about all I watch on those stations is the SBS news, which I believe to be unbiased. If you think not, you need to be specific. Generalisations are meaningless without substantial evidence so to make your case you need numerous specific instances of bias. If you are unwilling to do that then the discussion is just a waste of time.
Blob. your smoking gun is those excerpts you reference?
Your reading way too much into it.
Blob, I've been around long enough to make sense of media bias, even *gulp* studied it at university - no doubt by scoundrel bleeding heart lefties, eh? Of course I also work in the media so I see self-serving bias all the time, and I have to parse what people's motives are, what agenda they're keeping. None of this is new.
My own media consumption is a cross-politics spread from The Australian to Crikey, taking in around six or seven titles I pay for or are free to view, and from that I form my own opinion. But Breitbart is a step too far for me. I'll tune in now and again but it's more just matter-of-fact perusing: seeing how coloured the editorial is, how extreme the comments are. It provides an indicator to the state of play rather than information on specific stories.
For mine, a prima facie read of the Breitbart articles shows nothing compelling, nor does a more acute decoding, unless you already have a deep inbuilt bias.
And if you wanna take it a fraction further. Breitbart's political colours are libertarianism mixed with economic conservatism: they're largely for small government, low taxes, and minimal regulation. Well, Google is apparently ticking all those boxes, are they not? I mean, this is what you get when the govt cedes control and regulation is non-existent. They should be lauded by Breitbart - except, of course, their machinations are being directed against Breitbart's boy.
Enjoying the read
Extreme bias to the right or left really frustrates me...I think its damaging...and is primarily what has led to the rise of the likes of mr trump politically. I think the majority of people naturally exist in the moderate zone...but as mentioned somewhere above...we now get media that suits our bent...so while we may start out moderate left...but if we get all our information from that side...we may end up extreme...without even realizing it
I guess intelligence is a really difficult thing to judge...and can be measured different ways...and is therefore debatable to some extent...but just take note of Mr trumps limited vocabulary...AND considering that most of what he says would be written by others...I cant argue he is a man of high intelligence. I guess some would argue that he is just speaking the language of the people...maybe
I agree with above comments regarding SBS...their world news is generally good watching
Not so long ago we had empires ruled by emperors, then we had kingdoms ruled by kings, but now we seem to have countries....
Well done Westof .
It’s sad what it’s come to. Before Trump the president of the USA was a universally respected figure with remarkable ntellence and acumen . I sure miss the days when I knew the person with their finger over The Button wasn’t some random clown with more connections and money than political ability.
This is getting tedious....and ironic
You may assert that I am biased and that you are unbiased, and that my sources are lying while your sources tell the truth,
....but I don't share your OPINION, and unless you support your assertions with facts they are just ......assertions.
You don't get to be right just because you call people wrong.
You may think Breitbart is unreliable, but since you raised birtherism I hope you understand that it's beginnings have been debated in media for years.
As in you frame Trump but Hillary started it.
I accept there are two sides to this story but I'm also sure Obama's Kenyan, Indonesian, communist background was ignored in hopes of helping him get elected.
I don't think there is any question Hillary tried to differentiate herself from Obama by focussing on her Americaness and his otherness. Her supporters heard the dog whistle and the conspiracy theory grew.
When she fell behind in the contest her team took it further.
All supported with fact
But you focus on Trump
Now since Breitbart is so bad you will have no trouble demolishing this excuse for journalism.
Was Hillary a 'birther' or not I Focus?.
'....President was a universally respected figure...'
Umm, nope, never
You really need to get out more
And I think you need to take something to cure your irony deficiency.
Blob may words were ".....seems to believe he is a dictator." Not quite the same thing.
Blob I seem to remember that Obama did produce his birth certificate which was validated by the Hawaiian authorities so whoever you blame it was nonsense from start to finish. Trump, on the other hand, still refuses to release his tax return. Obama had nothing to hide, there is a serious chance Trump does ...... such as paying somewhere between zero and SFA.
Blob your view that the world is black / white, left evil / right good my tribe should rule over your tribe or binary is the same language that despots use to divide societies as they play every card of division including the dog whistle to racism.
Despots always undermine the very institutions that that hold up democratic values attacking anything that holds them accountable, 1st to go is the 4th estate .............sound familiar.
Read back though Blind Boys, Stu's and others posts here and you with see nuances, this is how real world is.
As you already know the issue with Trump's tax returns isn't the tax paid, it's where the money came from after US banks stopped lending to Trump hence the Russian connection.
Manafort is filling Mueller in about that right now.
Agree I focus but I think how little he has paid would also be an issue.
special commendations go to westofthelake's 10.14 comment and ifocus' 1.43 & 1.53 contributions.
Its 12.48 am in Washington DC right now and soon another day will dawn with Manafort singing like a canary to Mueller. 49 days to go to the mid terms and counting.
President Obama was a fundamentally decent man, a beautiful orator and an idealist. He lacked foreign policy experience and battled with a belligerent, intransigent and ever hostile senate. His country of birth had been clarified, but was obfuscated with conspiratorial drag. In Australia, even a newly arrived migrant can theoretically get a guernsey upon locking in singular citizenship - perhaps the yanks have something to learn here.
I am a PAYE taxpayer and like to know that I am contributing to a fair and balanced society - roads, schools, hospitals etc. Moreover, I am not preoccupied with trying to minimise my payments through write-offs either. Kerry Packer would've called me a mug, maybe so, but I also don't want to have left the world as having been an avaricious taker abrogating my responsibility as a good citizen. What kind of example does that set? Trump and his like-minded cronies have turned personal and company tax evasion into a lucrative international sport and the Trumpster has left a legacy of catastrophes and heartaches through his bankruptcy escape hatches with no obvious qualms. Those players of his ilk don't worry about moral equivalence because they lack any sense of responsibility to greater society. One of his former wives - Ivana - from recollection, asserted that "paying taxes was for the little people." A pathetic and contemptuous outlook and one that Trump is unlikely to ever resile from with any sense of moral awakening. It's a wonder he didn't write off Stormy Daniels as a stress relief advisor. One can only postulate as to how much he really owes major contractors and others and to what extent his finances are geared behind Shell companies in the Cayman Islands or wherever. Overall, this self-serving collective den of thieves, (from sport, politics, old and new money, weapons and drug manufacturing and the arts), has some US seventy trillion dollars stashed away. Think what a fraction of that could do on so many levels for a more equitable world.
Trump showing Dirk Ziff how to go about business in foreign countries.
Your 'university.....scoundrel bleeding heart lefties' sarcasm seems a little redundant.
Sneer at Bettina Arndt
Breitbart is full of stories like this....but you don't see them.
Do you believe the humanities in Colleges and Universities lean left or not?.....I know, it's a tough one.
Multiple studies in the US have found that the proportion of professors in the humanities who are Republicans ranges between 6 and 11 percent, and in the social sciences between 7 and 9 percent.
From a Liberal...https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/opinion/sunday/a-confession-of-libera...
So Breitbart is a step too far for you.
You tout your balanced media diet then immediately quantify the level of your own bias. Mmm
The Breitbart article about the Google meeting went to GREAT lengths to show they made no interpretation of facts.
It quoted the meeting verbatim and recommended the reader listen to the whole unedited tape to make up their own mind.
See, Breitbart know they get called out for bias so they let people read exactly what was said so they can make up their own mind.
Again you don't address the point though....that other media ignored the story .....and by doing so prevented readers from making up their own mind.
I'm getting plenty of irony in my diet thanks
Do you think the mainstream media is biased to the left? I know, another tough question.
As for Google ticking Breitbarts boxes....that is so dumb I guess you must be joking right?.
Do you not get that Global, globalist, progressive mono culture, open border monopolies don't tick any conservative boxes.
....and is your last sentence a joke too?, cause it totally contradicts your claim there is no evidence of Google tampering with the political process.....'their machination are being directed against Breitbarts boy'
What machinations are you referring to?.
Obama doesn't give me the same thrills.
I repeat: you never heard anything critical of Obama in regular media and you never hear anything positive about Trump.
This is not because Obama was without scandals, he had plenty, it's because the public are being played.
Obama installed tariffs on Chinese made tyres ... China responded by opening tyre manufacturing plants in America.
So it’s resulted in an immediate return to manufacturing in the USA.
That’ll show Trump and the stupid people who believed him when he said he’d return manufacturing to the USA.
Nobel Peace Prize winning Buddhist channels racist Trumphttps://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/sep/13/dalai-lama-refugees-eur...
Blob. Is that what you read into the dalais statements?
Which of the two major U.S. political parties was the most instrumental in outsourcing their manufacturing base in the first place. Either way in an emerging push for 'globalisation' as the new leap forward, it happened rapidly because big business generally wanted to curtail operating costs, put the brakes on reasonable wage growth and keep more of the profits - to the unequivocal detriment of large slabs of the population. Many of whom would, with sad irony, later bail out the "corporate dynamos" during the GFC. The question now remains as to whether the Chinese will yield to Trump's will so easily? Interesting times in mercantilist battles and, that said, only time will tell.
I have never been in the thrall of any political figurehead. Yes, readily conceded, Obama's presidency was disappointing and underwhelming; more was hoped for and there had been a lot riding on it. He certainly made mistakes and tended to prevaricate and vacillate on key matters - something Trump doesn't do - though perhaps to his detriment at times and Trump continually cops it not so sweet from the media. Blob you mentioned that we never hear anything positive about Trump, but by God, seemingly inured, that doesn't bother him or many of his acolytes.
Obama certainly displayed all the key hallmarks of an earnest nominee for the POTUS - namely good education, a sharp mindset, empathy and a commitment to finding reasonable consensus; he was not a hard core Washington swamp monster. He managed to avoid as much scrutiny as Trump, I think for pretty obvious reasons. But right now, the fact remains that until polity within the senate moves from cut throat and bitter rancour to constructive civil interchange and some serious pragmatic give and take, US politics will remain mired. One might well ask: Given the opportunity, which of the two men would one prefer to have a meal with and a conversation with some depth? Which of the two of them will leave a more definitive legacy as leaders of their times? Everyone has an opinion and that's a good thing.
It was a jab
What do you think the anti Trump media's reaction would have been if Trump had said refugees should go home because Europe belongs to Europeans ?
Think hard now....
Ha ha.....they would have a field day on it if Trump said that, would be all over the news.
God i love the Dalai Lama, such a wise but simple guy, like a real life Yoda.
For further reference and common sense.
General Social issues: Rita Panahi & Lauren Southern
Indigenous issues: Jacinta Price and Anthony Dillion
Gender: Debra Soh.
Islam: Armin Navabi & Brigitte Gabriel
Population: Dick Smith
Are people's memories so bad?
Trump did blunder his way into domestic UK and European politics in regard to refugees and it was all over the news internationally and locally.
Pfft. You can guarantee when Trump says it (he already has of course, and not just about Europe) it's full of plenty of other nastyness. I think one of the more recent gems was that all migrants should be immediately turned around and sent home....no process. Just pack em up and truck off. Pretty sure the word 'infestation' has thrown about previously. I'll hazard that guess. Course there was that other stuff about rapists and terrorists and Africans needing to return to their huts.
Guess it comes down to choice of words. Should a leader be careful or haphazard.
Somebody tell me how the sums work if Trump's tariffs cause a devaluation of the yuan so deep it will negate the Chinese hurt.
Are people's memories so bad?.
Trump did blunder his way into domestic UK and European politics in regard to refugees and it was all over the anti Trump news internationally and locally
Wasn't Trump contradicted and criticised for saying no go zones were real?
Who was right?
Tariffs are too complex for me although it seems the usual truisms don't necessarily apply when an imbalance of economic power is effectively leveraged.
So Obama's China tyre tariffs were said to be counterproductive, pushing up prices and costing a couple of hundred thousand for every job they created, .but Trump is no Obama.
There are also national security issues beyond the balance of trade...as in one Trump advisor said 'if you don't have steel you don't have a country'
When a migrant attempts to cross a border illegally why should they not be denied entry?.
This thread is full of lies
Lies and liars
Step back from the chatter and see the big ugly obvious picture
Because your democracy is only as good as the information in the hands of the voters
Most information is now sifted through the bias of left leaning, city based progressive media elites.
ABC, SBS, 7, 9, 10, BBC, CNN, NBC, MSNBC, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Hollywood, comedians.....academia. Etcetcetc.
Who do they represent?
They are an oligarchy of unelected influencers where the left/right split may be as much as ...
Yet the split in the general population is more like...
With the balance of our voting as fine as it is the influence of this cabal is ALREADY swinging elections.
The left would struggle to win anything without this media advantage
Eg. Elected with a big swing Abbott was deposed in a coup generated by a media blitzkrieg that evaporated as soon as the more acceptably progressive Turnbull was installed.
Hillary outspent Trump Two to one and had a media tailwind that was really only a New York Los Angeles sea breeze
Check out the elites when reality hits them....
The leftists on this thread will ignore, deflect, nitpick, deny and mock...
They'll stand in the sunshine and say it's nighttime.
...and sneer at any deplorable so dumb and ignorant as to disagree with them
So of course they are apoplectic about Trump and aghast at his support.
Trump won because the voters woke to the fact the elites were lying and were so blindly arrogant they thought they could get away with it.
Ha ha funny how when you come to jobs like journalism which require education, intelligence and a relative absence of greed you end up with lefties. All the right wingers of similar ability go in to law and suck on the corporate tit.
Blob asks " When a migrant attempts to cross a border illegally why should they not be denied entry?"
Nice try at rewriting international law.
It is not illegal for a refugee to seek safety by crossing a border. Full stop.
I guess you were always going to get to this weren't you?
Journos are geniuses
Wow...that was 'intelligent'