What's what?

Shatner'sBassoon's picture
Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Monday, 20 May 2019 at 9:55pm

God bless.V.I.

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 12:47pm

Not long ago Farmers,Greens,Labor formed (Lock the Gate coalition)
Standing shoulder to shoulder fighting off climate change drought & fracking.
Fracking being a conduit to gates of hell & drought the work of the Devil.

Farmers plough trees back into the soil & Coal is dug up from soil like veges.

Supermarkets continued capping Milk & Bread prices at the till.

Solutions...
Libs allowed Farmer Tom to store Backpacker sex slaves in barrels.
Labor labelled Native Tree clearing & pesticide runoff as work of the devil.
Labor viewed Farmers as eco vandals & Farmers viewed Labor as Nazis.
Farmers claim daily toil in the soil brands them as only true eco warriors.

Continuing on ...Scomo eats Coal claiming we're all harmless vegetables.

On the flip side in early 2018 "Dominion" is released...(Changes everything)
https://www.dominionmovement.com/
Like Pink Floyd/Crass (Records) Day After (Film) Grim Reaper(Ad)
Dominion (Doco) is a brutally honest wake up call to arms as such.

We see this played out on evening news...
Zombie Apocalypse uprising similar to previous wake up calls.
Meat The Victims / Meat is Murder / Stop Animal Cruelty / Stop Adani
Furry green zombies now have GPS to track heated Coal & Live flesh trade.
Dominion / Green Army invaded Towns & Farms declaring sinners repent.
Lifting lids on barrels! "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear!"

Farmers/Unions lined the Streets refusing Nazi Zombies Food,Beer & Board.
1st ever Oz wide Interstate City invasion of remote country towns.
This actually shocked little townsfolk as it should.

Oz wide Labor holds up Stop Adani signs cementing City Centric Nazi control.
Defend your town from Nazi Labor Zombie Coalition

Lib's cowering last gasp voiceover... [The Bill Australia Can't Afford] over & over

Nail in the coffin was the arrival of Cashed Up - Get Up Nazis.
ALP offshoot Get Up declared WAR on Volunteers mocking lazy Surf life Saver.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-24/activist-video-portrays-tony-abbo...
Capt Get Up was seen dry humping iconic Oz #1 Gold Medal female candidate
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/conservative-hero-captain-getup-rubs-up-agai...

ALP zombie horde will eat thru Oz best Iron Men & Gold Medal Chix.
Now all believe Scomo Coal is a lesser evil than ALP Zombie Invasion.

ALP revolution was harbouring Zombie lunatic fringe.
Sadly this lunatic fringe had violated boundaries too much to ignore.

[How Good is That] [You Have a Go < >You Get a Go] The only ticket in town.
{Daggy Dad's Humble Pie underdog Recipe}

Note: Libs still did their usual dirty deeds to nail it home.
(Breakaway 'indies' ?) UAP + AC both ran the very same Lib Ads
Libs How to Vote copied Purple AEC format for Chinese signs & websites.
This targeted racial deception surely violates human & electoral rights...
https://au.news.yahoo.com/australian-federal-election-2019-chinese-liber...

Libs as "neutrals" hand out mock up how to vote flyers
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/fake-voting-cards-preferencing-dutton-e...
AEC have no power to deal with until post election...
It was all over by then too bad so sad.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 1:00pm

TBB, bravo. Perhaps your finest work.

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 5:03pm

Thanks factotum!
Us v Them war is very real ...
Today's [News] delivered Qld Style!
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/sunshine-coast-daily-front-page-p...

Reminder! Newscorp won the election! Imagine if they lost...a letter bomb

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 5:54pm

Ya gotta laugh.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 6:06pm

I worked for the AEC inside a polling place on Saturday issuing ballot papers and other functions.

Fair to say a bigger enough percentage of voters were noticeably rude to us staff and generally pissed off having to waste their precious time voting. One voter was really pissed off because others weren’t taking it seriously saying people overseas are prepared to die for the right to vote, true.

After 6pm we sorted and counted the votes. The number of deliberately marked informal votes were staggering and especially so in the senate. It was also clear the LNP benefited from their position on the senate ballot paper.

All pretty disappointing that people are so disengaged.

Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 6:06pm

Some Statements from Editor of Sunshine Coast Daily,

"We could have presented the message which we intended the page to convey in a different way."

Yea they could have, but I reckon they would have had it the other way round, i.e big pic of State leader with cross-hairs sign.

"We give it, we have to take it, and learn from these things."

Yea right, expect more of the same from the Daily Dunnyroll.

Speaking of crap, today's The Daily Terrograph front page with a big headline of "The 33 billion dollar man" - which I believe is some sort of reference to the mighty stock market re-gaining power after the LNP win. Leading the way were all the big banks and resource sectors. No surprise there.

Actually I think that I have a new name for 'ScoMo'

Scott Moreofthesame.

Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 6:41pm

As for Clive, he just spent $50 mill and due to virtually none of his candidate gaining 4 % he gets about 1% back from the taxpayer. Pocket change for him, but it's still fuckall compared to what he spent.

What I noticed at the beginning of Clives 2019 TV ad campaign is that he had a Palmer size variety of ads. I got the feeling early on that he was hedging his bets by having the odd (subtle)negative Labor and negative Lib type ad early on. It was like a little warning to the majors, go with me and my yellow machine and I will play negative ads against the other side, but it'll cost ya. Once the preference deal between the Libs and Clive had been secured. it was on with Clive recently stating "Our Shifty Shorten ads across Australia … I think have been very successful in shifting the Labor vote."

Pictures Palmer jet on tarmac in Canberra anytime now,,"about that deal....."

"There is also no “truth in advertising” requirement at the federal level, and the Australian Electoral Commission does not have the authority to approve electoral communications for publication."

Now imagine if we had this law 'requirement' changed.

I'd vote for that.

http://theconversation.com/after-clive-palmers-60-million-campaign-limit...

There's a few ideas here re money and elections etc - how the english do it.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 6:48pm

Scott Moreofthesame. And that's being optimistic!

BTW did anyone see this strange piece of 'clickbait'?

https://www.smh.com.au/federal-election-2019/i-m-young-i-voted-liberal-a...

Is it real? Is the person real?

What fresh lunacy is this all round??

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 6:58pm

Why wouldn't it be real?

I mean we joke and stereotype the young inner city latte drinkers type, and that stereo type is often true (hence why a stereotype), but they dont all vote Greens or Labor.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 7:22pm

Dunno if she's real or not but the rationale is unreal. She puts forth a case of progressive politics when the Libs, by their own admission, haven't been that for three decades. Howard boasted that he was socially conservative, in fact THE most conservative PM, up until Abbott of course, but then there was Turnbull - Mr Progressive - but he was kneecapped by the right, and then they knifed him.

She cites Malcolm Fraser allowing Vietnamese refugees in as a reason she votes Liberal when sitting members such as Peter Dutton have said that was a mistake (I note she doesn't mention how Mal quit the Liberals over treatment of refugess, among other things).

There's also some weird-arse timeline about the old United Australia and how it should've been the Liberals, and how it was them that created the compulsory vote - and then four decades later also gave it to Indigenuous folk.

I expect she's one of those gormless youngsters ID patronises by saying they'll one day acquire some wisdom. Then again, with rust like that I highly doubt it.

Really, just a shit piece of clickbait posted to spark a comments thread.

Good looking but.

Actually, that was probably the editor's whole basis for running it...

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 7:46pm

Makes for good reading...

Ted Mack.

"He is the only person ever to have been elected and re-elected as an independent to local, state, and federal government in Australia. He chose to serve for only two terms in both the New South Wales state seat of North Shore and the federal seat of North Sydney to avoid receiving a parliamentary pension."

"He began his term as mayor by selling the mayoral Mercedes-Benz car to help buy community buses. For the next eight years he used his 1951 Citroen as the mayoral car at no cost to the ratepayers. He relinquished his private architectural practice on becoming mayor."

"He introduced open government policies making all council meetings, committees and council files open to the public. There were no meetings of any sort from which the public or press were excluded while he was mayor. Public participation in decision making was created through the establishment of some 24 precinct committees, some 3000 public meetings and 36 referenda over his eight years as mayor. Under Mack's leadership the council decided all decision making is ultimately the right of the public not aldermen – irrespective of the merits of the public decision. He initiated a policy of raising funds from sources other than rates, with the result that rates fell from 66% of council's income in 1980 to 38% in 1987. This enabled the council to establish a large public works program without using rates or loans to fund it."

"In 1981, he decided to run as an independent for the New South Wales Legislative Assembly seat of North Shore. On paper, it was a comfortably safe Liberal seat; the North Shore has been the power base for the Liberals in Sydney for over a century. Mack nominated for the seat after noticing its new boundaries were virtually coextensive with the North Sydney municipality. Mack considered that being both mayor and state member for electorates that covered nearly identical boundaries would make both positions more effective. After the first count on election night he pushed the Labor candidate into third place, and ultimately defeated McDonald on Labor preferences—one of the few times a major-party leader has been defeated at any level in Australia. Mack did not accept a mayoral allowance for the next seven years."

"Shortly after his 1988 victory, he abruptly retired from all of his offices. He did so just two days short of serving seven years in parliament, which would have made him eligible for parliamentary pension entitlements in excess of $1,000,000. Mack had always taken a dim view of what he perceived as the excesses of public political office, and decided to retire in protest."

"Despite living nearby, for a time, he refused to travel across the Sydney Harbour Bridge or through the Sydney Harbour Tunnel in protest at the secret contract and awarding of all tolls to Kumagai Transfield for 30 years."

"After 18 months out of politics, mainly spent camping in the outback, Mack achieved even broader fame by winning the federal seat of North Sydney in 1990. The seat had long been regarded as a blue-ribbon Liberal seat; it had been held by the Liberals or their predecessors since Federation. However, Mack defeated incumbent Liberal MP on a large swing. During his tenure in federal Parliament, Mack opposed unilateral tariff removal, privatisations and was the only vote against Australian involvement in the Gulf War."

"Mack chose to retire from federal parliament at the 1996 election for the same reason he had previously chosen to retire from state parliament − to avoid receiving a parliamentary pension. When the Liberals held their preselection contest for the seat, they did not know at the time that Mack would not renominate, and Joe Hockey won the nomination with very little opposition."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Mack_(politician)

 

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 7:58pm

New Fed Govt security fails...Tally board

*One Nation Sen Pauline Hanson (Arson Attack)
http://www.wsfm.com.au/newsroom/pauline-hansons-one-nation-election-truc...

*Qld Labor PM Anna Palaszczuk (Death Threat)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/sunshine-coast-daily-front-page-p...

*Greens HQ Sen Sarah Hanson Young (HAZMAT Parcels)+Threats 2 days running.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-21/second-suspicious-envelope-sent-t...

2019 Liberal Broken Promises Tally
"In your pocket FY' Day 1" Tax cuts...('Sucked in if you believed us'...Ha! Ha!)

As Australia rapidly descends into darker times...
PM Scomo: "You make a death threat, you get a Corpse"...How good is that.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 8:22pm

"She cites Malcolm Fraser allowing Vietnamese refugees in as a reason she votes Liberal when sitting members such as Peter Dutton have said that was a mistake (I note she doesn't mention how Mal quit the Liberals over treatment of refugess, among other things)."

The last few years under Liberal Australia has had some of highest resettlement of refugees ever, processed as fairly as possible only priority given is those in most need like stateless refugees.

It's just people like you that cant see unfair it would be to have an open border, get here if you can at the expense of others who cant policy.

Like I've said before, you want that kind of unfair system, we might as well put the refugee quota spots up on E-bay and let them bid for a spot.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 8:27pm

Got nothing to do with me. I don't even subscribe to what you've accused me of.

Point is, she lauds the party for something its done in the past, yet its current policies - i.e who she voted for - run counter to it.

To wit, illogical.

Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 9:14pm

"It's just people like you that cant see unfair it would be to have an open border, get here if you can at the expense of others who cant policy.

Like I've said before, you want that kind of unfair system, we might as well put the refugee quota spots up on E-bay and let them bid for a spot."

The reality is,

"The people smugglers are doing more business than ever. The difference is that their clients are arriving by plane rather than boat and are less likely to be genuine refugees.

The Home Affairs Department website shows 27,931 protection visa applications were made in the latest financial year by plane arrivals.

The previous record number of asylum seekers was 26,845 in the 2012-13 financial year when 18,365 protection visa applications were made for boat arrivals and 8480 for those who came by plane."

Yep the bintangs are getting bigger...and more cozy airport loungey-like.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 9:26pm

"Yep the bintangs are getting bigger...and more cozy airport loungey-like."

Mental...as anything!

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 21 May 2019 at 9:32pm

Stu, that was a great wrap on Ted I do remember him slightly.
You raised the fact he made council self sufficient...that intrigued tbb.

note: Ted was also 2nd chief Architect for NSW Housing
With this mindset Ted was across all Civic design & Large scale costing.

Here's a tbb shortcut to how Ted balanced Council Books.

Ted built Council's own buildings instead of leasing but with community in mind.
Council could incorporate Shop Leasing with now full Pay Multi Level Car Parks.
This was good value as folk could visit council /Library/ Shops in one stop shop.
Former parking lots become Parks/Gardens donating extra land for Public Housing.

Sounds so simple but it was Ted's idea.

More importantly you couldn't rip him off!
Mayor Ted could efficiently cut costs on all council plans of note.
Ted had backing & insight to NSW Govt highest level City Planners.

He could sniff out White Shoes from a mile away & would call them out.
Importantly excludes Ted from Brown Paper Bag Club he so denounced.
You bet! Mobsters wanted him gone for being a stick in the mud & he said so!

Stu paints Ted as being a fair man of many skills that community longs for.
Ted also preserved heritage & was not shy of Foreign affairs re: Human Rights.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 8:08am

@Westofthelake

All arrived with passports and visas passed immigration, quarantine checks, custom checks.

Almost all will be rejected because we can actually process them because we know where they are from and who they are, compared to those by boat who when are not genuine or borderline destroy documents etc making it virtually impossible to process, the system then works on a innocent until guilty (genuine unless can be proven otherwise type system)

Yes there is obviously a problem especially with non refugees/asylum seekers gaming the system to work etc

But it's also an issue that can be rectified easily because we have control over the issue, it's already being dealt with, clamp down on allowing tourist visas from countries refugees can come from, and making it harder for countries refugees rarely come from but people have been gaming the system for work (Etc Malaysia)

BTW. Even those found to be genuine most are on temporary protection protection visa's that only last a few years, after that time they need to reapply and are reaccessed if circumstances are found to have changed and its safe to return home they are not granted another visa and must return home. (unfortunately the government has now also allowed non temporary protection visa, no idea why)

Basically two completely different issues.

Anyone who confuses the two issues clearly has no understanding of the issue, and especially how unrealistic it is to allow uncontrolled entry in uncontrolled numbers into Australia .

@Stunet

Point is both governments processed the largest number of refugees in our history, both even had programs aimed directly at different issues. (vietnam & Syria)

They have more in common than not in common.

The idea that current government is anti refugee is just BS and the total opposite is true, if they were anti refugee they would not increase our refugee intake from previous government intakes.

The difference is both governments are over 40 years apart the world has changed greatly in that time , situations totally different in relation to all kinds of issues, were Australia is at as a nation, where refugee came from geographically, border control issues, security, quarantine etc.

If Malcom Fraser was in power today, he couldn't deal with the issue the same way he did back then, its just not realistic, the world and situation on all areas have changed dramatically..

Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 8:59am

@Indo,

"But it's also an issue that can be rectified easily because we have control over the issue, it's already being dealt with, clamp down on allowing tourist visas from countries refugees can come from, and making it harder for countries refugees rarely come from but people have been gaming the system for work (Etc Malaysia)"

The reality is the processing and appeals process has become so slow that the individuals can be exploited here for three years on low wages or as sex workers before a final determination is reached.

So whilst they eventually get deported they spend about 3 years undermining the workforce.

From my understanding the Home Affairs department are far from being competent and efficient.

“Experienced immigration officers have understood this risk for at least two decades. But the current Home Affairs Department has few experienced immigration officers left, with many having been driven out by the current leadership.

As with people smugglers bringing in people on boats, the key to minimising a surge in ‘unmeritorious’ protection visa applications is to minimise the value of the product people smugglers can sell.

So much for stopping the smugglers."

http://www.johnmenadue.com/abul-rizvi-dutton-sets-new-asylum-seeker-appl...

"Basically two completely different issues."

The only difference is poor people had to take the boat and rich people can take the plane.

yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer's picture
yorkessurfer commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 9:33am

This should warm the cockles of your soul indo. A disturbing wave of suicide attempts have taken place at the detention centres on Manus and Nauru since the weekend’s federal election result.
https://www.news.com.au/national/federal-election/manus-activist-says-de...

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 9:45am

Westofthelake is onto it ...
Scomo waves thru more Plane People in one year than Boat People ever.
Facts show Boat People contribute more than take, plane people bludge.
Farmers are hooked on Plane People so scomo orders more.
Mobster scomo is OZ #1 Human trafficker hardly Boat People smugglers.

Libs themselves want scomo to [STOP THE PLANES]
1 million student visas alone...Plane kidz buy Oz Unis to ditch Oz kidz.(True)
Scomo is therefore the first & only unaustralian PM to favour teaching Alien Kidz.
Scomo hates the shit outta Oz Students...Why?
Cities grind to a halt because of PLANE PEOPLE.

Open Borders could only save Oz a fortune as a working class would immigrate.
"How good are Plane People!" End ABC vi$a Rort. [STOP THE PLANES]

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 9:47am

Have a look at the comments section of that link. That website is very left leaning but again the sentiment differs.

I'm not sure if the commenters are a valid cross-section of mainstream Australia, but the refugees aren't garnering much sympathy.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 12:01pm

Which site is very 'left leaning' Zen? Surely you're not talking about the News Corp one?!

That's got the usual stuff that's par for their course in the comments.

As for Menadue, you know who he is?

https://johnmenadue.com/precis/

If you think News Corpse is 'left leaning' then Menadue must seem like a Maoist Trotskyite Marxist Commie!

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 12:20pm

Facto, never heard of him till now but news.com.au (touted as Australia's No.1 news site) I think is left leaning or centre left at the very least. So much so in the lead up to the election as I stated before, you could almost pre-empt how the article would pan out and who the journalist was. Malcolm Farr, Charis Chang, Ben Graham, Shannon Molloy, Gavin Fernando, Sam Clench basically the whole team. It was rare in that period to see an article painting the Coalition in a positive light imo. I do notice today they're giving Labor a bit of stick but prior to that, twas red all the way imo.

I should know but don't- who is the parent company of news.com.au?

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 12:21pm

Two imo's, that's not good riting.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:26pm

News Corp. Rupe and son.

Worth looking at Rupe's MO. There's always worthy stuff in his political output on all platforms. BUT...the majority of it is as biased as he is. And he's always hedged his political bets in the past (Only up to a point. He likes to be seen as a winner and power-broker par excellence), especially in the broadsheets past, and now on the internet, BUT AGAIN...as he gets older, and as corporate media as a whole gets baser, well, he's REALLY starting to out himself as the propaganda merchant he always has been. It's really naked now.

And his son Lachlan is even more nakedly and purely political and further to the right. I'm guessing though that $$$$ may temper that at some stage.

Then again, stay tuned for SKY After Dark on free-to-air in the metropolitan regions. It's already a reality in the rural regions through WIN. Our very own Oz style FOX News.

I wonder how that will affect our politics?!

Either way, we're not best served by the Murdoch business empire (We as in 'we, the little people').

Check this Murdoch Empire primer. Yeah, it's The Guardian (the 'leftie' rag that offically backed Shorten's Labor this election in the editorial stakes, but funnily enough didn't last election. Actually, this one was surprising to me. The Sydney Morning Herald backed Labor in its pre-election editorial this time around...for only the 8th time ever! All Murdoch rags backed ProMo except the NT news!), but it is researched and concurs with and backs up longer studies, and books, produced elsewhere. Worth a perusal if you're genuinely interested.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/20/very-australian-coup-murdo...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/21/inside-the-news-corp-tribe...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/22/follow-the-money-how-news-...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/24/the-lachlan-ascendancy-is-...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:02pm

And who 'owns' the guardian?

Just in the interests of balance of course...

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:19pm

Funny thing is, I pointed you towards this an age ago. The Manchester Guardian and the Scott Trust. Look it up. Great history.

It's also why with the financial changes to this trust The Guardian has turned the way it has in the last decade or so, especially in the last several years. Disgracefully Anti-Corbyn and Anti-Sanders in more recent times.

Media Lens (remember them?) have been charting this relative decline and pulling them up for years now.

Surprise! It's corporate news! Know that and critically move on and use.

As for fake equivalence again, The Guardian vs the reach of the Murdoch Empire??

As your political sage, the V.I., said, "you gotta love the underdog"?

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:32pm

No false equivelance facto, just pointing out you give a very one sided view. The reach of murdoch is huge, not denying that, but he does only reach a certain punter, just as the guardian reaches their target.

btw ss to who 'owns' the guardian, I think its a little more complicated than you're letting on.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:36pm

Sypkan,

You know how you said all the polls copy each other? Guess what media does..?

And when there's a chorus agenda from a many-tentacled mogul...well, you know how the rest goes.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:37pm

@ZenAgain,

Should we call you AgainZen now? Is that the polite new convention?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:41pm

Just don't call me late for dinner:)

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:53pm

"The reach of murdoch is huge, not denying that, but he does only reach a certain punter."

NO! And that's the fucking point. His reach is so huge it infects all political discourse. Conscious or not. It is insidious!

It cannot be ignored. By even countering it, you acknowledge it. It frames debate! It sets the boundaries and steers the narrative even when it's being challenged!

On all platforms. Even the fucking internet and Social Media.

As Bat Fink said elsewhere,

"Somehow that line got into your unconscious and made it's way to these forums and that is exactly what I'm interested in. It wasn't an idea that was formulated in your rational mind based on a thorough assessment of policy platforms, but it was there and that's important.

Somehow that got in, an accumulation of impressions and ideas collected over weeks, months and probably years, and expressed in these pages."

Unlike Bat Fink though I focus the awareness of this mind-trickery and lay it sharply at the feet of the Murdoch Empire, the "...getting underneath, getting past the rational mind and slipping a mickey into the back of your mind unbeknownst. It's fucking insidious, deeply clever and outrageously dangerous. They are playing with fire here, messing with instincts, and the genie that comes out of that bottle will not go where you want it to."

Be aware, alert, and alarmed!

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 2:59pm

Especially with the Ad Man at the helm of the ship of State!

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 4:10pm

"The reality is the processing and appeals process has become so slow that the individuals can be exploited here for three years on low wages or as sex workers before a final determination is reached."

Yeah thats the problem, the system can be exploited it's why refugees from Manus or Nauru try to get here on medical grounds etc, because they can then stay for years while the legal process sorts things out, yeah the system is way to easily gamed especially with the help of refugee advocates.

And yes that is the aim of most of them to get here to work, but from their point of view they are not being exploited, they earn more money in 3 years than they would in 20 years back home, they go home cashed up and buy a house or a business etc.

Not saying its a good thing, its a problem, but im sure they are trying to work towards reducing.

The problem is even though it's much harder than you would expect to even just get a tourist visa, the government still needs to allow people to get tourist visa's if they can jump the hurdles needed.

From my point of view, the easiest idea would to be to scrap onshore protection visas and send them straight back to their departure point, to apply for a different visa, but this would be controversial because in theory you could be sending someone directly back to danger (not same as turning a boat back to Indonesia a safe country)

You would also just have the problem of them just visa overstaying their tourist visa, for years or even life.

Remembering that most are brought over by companies of their own nationality, who ensure they can jump the hurdles to get a tourist visa, exploit them with low wages, which the workers still see as dream wages. (so for both parties a good deal)

In regard to the system these things change all the time, the system, visas, process etc

"The only difference is poor people had to take the boat and rich people can take the plane."

Even Blindboy agrees this is completely incorrect, its much more expensive to arrive by boat paying people smugglers thousands of dollars, than plane.

All that have the ability to travel by plane or pay people smugglers in the scheme of things are well off.

The poor ones, are stuck elsewhere.

Only exception to this is when a company here is the one paying for everything and put money in their bank account to ensure they can get the tourist visa etc.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 5:11pm

Yeh I get that stunet and facto. And I fully acknowledge that murdoch with his power, actually frames the debates.

But at the end of the day murdoch is just talkng about what 'the common man' is talking about in the street. Whereas the likes of the guardian or the abc don't want to show the wide open gate in the cyclone fence - just out of shot of a carefully cropped photo - because it doesn't suit their agenda. I would argue that omission of facts can be just as damaging ro public debate as much as any massaging of facts.

So if murdoch press writes a story that appears to tell more truth to the story, then thay are going to win that battle. Carefully scripting the narrative just doesn't work in an internet age, yet the left are vehemently holding on to these archaic practices

This doesn't even consider the fact people love scandals, gratuitious gossip and gotchas. Taking the high road doesn't make something go away. While something may not seem important, or worthy of light to some abc or guardian writer, it may mean the world to some poor soul literally competing for a toilet cleaning position.

People want to talk about immigration!!

In all of it's forms. The new left, or fake left, or regressive left, whoever the fuck they are, need to accept this.

Three years of denial (minimum) is plenty of time to accept reality

From the quillette article...

"The class-based realignment of party politics isn’t unique to my country. All over the world, left-wing parties increasingly are being co-opted by politicians who reflect the attitudes and priorities of voters with higher incomes and education levels, while right-wing parties increasingly attract blue-collar workers who’ve become alienated by parties that once championed the little guy. It’s been three years since Donald Trump became the Republican presidential nominee, and so this phenomenon no longer can be described as new or dismissed as transient. Yet progressives seem to imagine that it can be dispelled, as if by a magic spell, simply by incanting the right hash tags or bleating mantras about anti-racism."

It just seems like 'progressives' or 'the left' or whatever, just want to put their fingers in their ears and go ...nah nah...nah nah nah to drown out all that they don't want to hear. Aside from being terribly childish, this is just not going to happen....

"...Yet progressives seem to imagine that it can be dispelled, as if by a magic spell, simply by incanting the right hash tags or bleating mantras about anti-racism."

These issues are not going away. They are just getting bigger and bigger, and will continue to do so.

You need to develop your vocabulary to be able to talk about them. If that means throwing out the window 20 years of (possibly over the top) political correctness ...

then that is what you need to do.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Saturday, 25 May 2019 at 9:27pm

.

loungelizard's picture
loungelizard's picture
loungelizard commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 5:11pm

"the policies of a wealthy and comfortable class whose policies are.. intended to assist them". so noble! so misunderstood! beyond parody

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Saturday, 25 May 2019 at 9:27pm

.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 5:44pm

I follow Sky news ABC, SBS on social media, catch up on a bit of other news here and there, listen to ABC radio at work, it's all the same issues, it's just covered A little bit differently, just a different perspective.

leading up to the election all the news was the same Sky news was still predicting a big Labor win etc

These days with so many different news sources especially social media there is so many different views and opinions from official and non official sources, the influence of murdoch press is less than ever, so im not sure why people keep banging on about murdoch this murdoch that.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 5:51pm

.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Saturday, 25 May 2019 at 9:27pm

.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 6:01pm

"One of the most disturbing things to come out of this election and the build up to it is the repeated assertion that a progressive elite are constantly disparaging members of less sophisticated groups. "

Does "truculent turds" count?

https://www.3aw.com.au/jane-caro-explains-those-post-election-tweets/

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 6:02pm

They still print papers?

Nah really seriously have no idea, only time i read a paper is if i go somewhere like Maccas.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 6:23pm

"News Corp’s unconstrained anti-Labor bias cannot account entirely for Labor’s disastrous showing, but common sense says it accounts for some."


photo sharing

https://theconversation.com/outrage-polls-and-bias-2019-federal-election...

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 6:27pm

"But at the end of the day murdoch is just talkng about what 'the common man' is talking about in the street."

Another piece of the puzzle.

The old media chestnut: descriptive or prescriptive? Reflecting or projecting?

"They still print papers?

Nah really seriously have no idea, only time i read a paper is if i go somewhere like Maccas."

Funny that newspapers and McDonalds gets a mention...

https://people.eou.edu/socprob/readings/week-8/mcdonaldization-as-social...

Have a real good think.

Do the course!

https://people.eou.edu/socprob/readings/

Discuss.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Thursday, 23 May 2019 at 11:13am

Well blindboy, I could use you as a prime example of what you are denying, if I was that way inclined...

Facto, thread research required...

Or, I could just write " scomo scumbags"

With the utmost respect, you my friend, are totally delusional.

This is not a new phenomenom. seeded, reared, and fostered by the murdoch/trump evil empire. The disparaging elite has been around for at least the whole of my lifetime, and probably since media was invented in some form or other.

What you don't seem to realise is, that the working class has known from the very beginning that this whole globalisation / agenda 21 thingy is dubious by design. Even before that, it is basic economics that tells you if you flood a market with something (labour), prices will come down. You really don't need an economics degree to know that.

This shit never got traction in a letters to the editor age, but with the internet, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. Both in terms of facts, and facilitation. 30 odd years of suppressed opinion, 30 odd years of economic dogma, and, 30 odd years of self enrichment/preservation.

All released at once.

And, 30 odd years of bullshit political correctness, that has artificially suspended a washed up argument, up in the ether, floating like a deity, just out of reach.

That's a lot of release!

Just imagine for your whole working life, that some third rate expert has told you your opinion is worthless, you're an outlier, a minority dare I say, and everything you believe is wrong because of evidence a, b, and c.

You don't like this, because all your evidence points otherwise, as does your basic maths. However you suck it up, ignore it, and get on with working!

...because,...well, what choice do you have?

Then 20 years later, this internet thingy comes along, doesn't mean much, doesn't change much, but the media and academics love it. Another 10 years passes, and everyone is all over it, this internet thingy, everyone! Now in that time commnunities develop, conversations develop, contrarians develop, and wo and behold there's even academic wankers considering your original position might actually have been 'the truth' all along. Your worthless 'minority' position is actually gaining weight!

But then there's a whole heap of other academics and writers, the legacy ones, arguing against this new thinking, this alternative view, denying an end to 'the end of history'. Saying we know stuff, cos she said so....

Then the contrarian academics, those not indoctrinated, those with an inquiring mind, those that have assessed new evidence say...

actually we have a problem here (to put it mildly - we actually have an onslslaugt of huge problems, all interrelated). These figures aren't adding up, these future provisions and projections are dwindling not growing. No matter what we do at this point, a larger pyramid scheme is not the answer.

But nah, the gatekeepers don't want to go there, don't even want to entertain the idea. Refuse to put it up to the academic rigour that has been shoved down our throats all along.

They just say 'that's racist'

again!

and again...

and again again....

And refuse to even assess the situation

Pretty suss no?

Now, you could argue, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Or you could argue that the world is an incredibly dynamic place that requires an open mind and constant reassessment.

And that the ones who preach an open mind, are either just infuriatingly stubborn, selfish, or just plain stupid...

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 6:33pm

sypkan knows that 'Left Journos' are tortured for whispering Detention Camps.
It's illegal to spyglass Dr Moreau's Island.(Newscorp get red carpet then medals)
We all wish to talk about immigration but only half are allowed to speak of it. Shh!
This is how Murdoch shapes his narrative...First by lying then denying.
Does Newscorp list Fed Political Donors? ABC /SMH/Guardian do so by default.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-01/donations-australia-federal-polit...
Adani donated to Libs but not Labor.(Explains everything!) Not News I guess!
A disclaimer should accompany each Adani News Story!
If Adani was biggest News then why did Newscorp alone hide the biggest truth.

tbb past GCB letters as this, were selectively edited to suit Right Wing Agenda.
All factual reply or revelation was removed word by word by sentence each day.
In the end my reply was no more than an advert for their agenda...Laugh & cry?
tbb is long banned from Murdoch letters columns as other GC 'Lefties'.

This here letter would never be allowed in any Qld newscorp newspaper.
Whereas sypkan's letter would be heralded & syndicated in full...(None surprised!)

Qld Tabloid Editors would be sacked for allowing anyone disproving their Lies.
Now that ain't hard...Simply choose any news topic & get your kid to pen a reply.
Tabloids are Right Wing Comic Strips with dumbass worn out Super Hero Lib plot.
Vote for your fav' Designer Mangina Tattoo Parlor"... A sick joke is what it is!

Note: Stu spoke of ALP win in Illawarra that was newscorp free until April.
https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/6132150/sharon-bird-back-for-s...

As factotum said... they take a little while to drain yer brain.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/illawarra-star/welcome-to-th...

Apparently more than one month...that comes as a surprise to all.

P&#039;tai's picture
P&#039;tai's picture
P'tai commented Wednesday, 22 May 2019 at 6:37pm

furiatingly or infuriating ?