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Syppy, what was that cringey thing you spraffed the other day?
Calm ya farm?
Come on Facto.
Defend this policy.
You’ve told me that I’m wrong to not embrace it . Tell me how Australia benefits from bringing in millions of legally unemployable , elderly foreigners.
I don’t want to vote One Nation , Facto.
I never did. I was an ALP voter my entire life. That’s what makes it so sad.
The ALP was MY party. I am a working class Australian. But they’ve just walked away from the working class.
Now they are just about the ALP .
And they are willing to ruin the country to save the party. This policy proves it.
Tell me how I’m wrong.
Vote for sustainable Australia.
Fuck the ALP/ LNP/ Greens
Blowin may well have a bee in his bomnet, but that doesn't mean he's factually incorrect.
Sell it to us facto. What are the possible benefits of such a policy. Besides the feel good effect and ALP mending some bridges. I honestly cannot think of one positive. It's economic suicide.
It goes against everything we've been sold for the last 20 years. There should be a maximum age on all workers migrating in order to benefit oz. But this just contributes absolutely nothing, and eats at an already failing system.
Tell us one benefit ...please. ...anything...
It's a complex business running a country, with twenty Ministries, some crossing numerous portfolios, and underneath each portfolio a myriad of issues. The party in power can have fifty policies on the fly - even more in the run up to an election.
This is just one policy, and it's not as frightening as your posts make it out.
I don't like it but I understand it as the deal-making required to achieve power. It's your prerogative to vote against Labor, however by doing so you're isolating one issue out of many. Some of Labor's policies this election are great - I believe the best policies put forth in an election this century - so for the sake of THOSE policies I'll be voting for Labor.
You’re underplaying the effect of this policy though , Atticus.
I’ll admit that the ALP have made great strides towards rekindling any confidence in their representation of their traditional base , but unfortunately this single policy massively undermines anything else they are capable of achieving.
I’m interested in how you think the outcome of an uncapped , untested visa class which will allow entry for hundreds of thousands ( perhaps millions ) of working age or decrepit elderly people with no visible income differs from the result I’ve stated.
And I think you’re being overly generous when you excuse our professional political class of not being able to do their jobs adequately. If the policy was made on the fly , is it acceptable to release it without proper consideration of its far reaching effects ?
I managed to assess the policy as disastrous in a few moments diversion whilst watching a surfing contest on TV and yet I’m meant to absolve responsibility to the extremely well payed politicians who came up with the concept ?
If they can’t develop policy what can they do ?
You are correct in saying that it’s a deal made to secure power , but who gains from such power when the cost is so great. It’s an understatement to describe it as a Pyrrhic victory for the working class if this policy is the price to pay for their political representation.
I don't want to play tit for tat, but saying that 15M will claim the visa is obviously overplaying it.
A lot of parents won't want to leave their homeland. A lot of them will already have sons and daughters (and grandkids) that live in those homelands so they wont want to come to Australia.
I also have questions about the 2015 (or 2016, cant remember) Productivity Commission report because it doesn't state how it arrived at that figure. Are we just supposed to assume? Sorry, show me the sums first. It happens elsewhere in PC costings. There's been too little talk around this policy to argue for long, but it would be easy for govt to shore up guarantees so the visa achieves its designated purpose - unites families - without costing Australian taxpayers money. The worst case scenarios you presented last page (also presented in The Oz and other right-leaning pubs) are very hard to believe. Make health insurance a guarantee, make the visa holder a guarantor, and the Aust taxpayer doesn't get slugged.
There's a start.
Don't try and work out Labors maths or you'll hurt yourself. They will attack the self fundies, do away with company tax discounts which would have made us competitive and increased employment as the current 30% CT is too high and was about to be dropped to 25%. Labor thinks the oldies getting their franking credits are tax free when they just paid 30% company tax on their dividends. Many will buy a bigger house and go on the pension instead. I joked about Bill shorten promising anything of any amount to anybody to get their vote and I even said he will also give free puppies...everyone gets a puppy and I watched the news that night and had to laugh as Bullshit Bill was surrounded by puppies on the news and promising more labs...so funny...and so fake sitting next to the poor old cancer lady in hospital as if things would be better with him. I'm sure the staff at that hospital were already doing their best for that lady. The guy is a fraud and a too close friend of China and a Union boss and when he gets into power he will unravel our country so fast everyone's head will spin and you know what, we will get what we deserve for being that stupid.
I read that the current (capped) policy for the parents of overseas born Australians allows them to access Medicare whereas the new arrangements proposed by Labor will force them to use the private health system. I guess that would help make the private health industry more sustainable given that rising fees have seen people dropping out in record numbers?
Also the boost to the retail economy from the increased consumers of everything from groceries, restaurants, food, cars, white goods, furniture etc needs to be considered?
There isn’t anything in Labor’s policy for these elderly parents to be able to access the aged pension either?
Don’t get too cocky , Optimist.
LNP are no better.
The only reason the private health system is viable is because it’s underwritten by every Australian , whether they use it or not. So Australians will now be subsiding the private health insurance of foreign citizens who contribute nothing.
Another factor is that as they will be older people on the visa , their entire cohort will provide asymmetri pressure to the private health system.
The system usually has young people who don’t claim much , subsidising the policies of the older insured people who do claim a lot. But the hundreds of thousands of elderly people will have no correlating cohort of younger people to help pay for the demands they will place on the system.
This means either more taxpayer subsidies or higher premiums for everyone in private health.
Either way , Australians will be partly paying for the insurance of foreigners .
And paying for them to compete with us for the hospital beds , medical equipment and doctors we already lack in sufficient numbers.
What good is a boost in retail if wages are so depressed by the addition of hundreds of thousands of black market workers that no one can afford anything anyway ?
These people will all end up on Medicare and the pension as they will never be sent home.
The reason the policy came to pass was due to political pressure from multicultural groups which have the power to leverage the outcomes of elections.
If you think that these same groups are going to agree to be seperated from their elderly parents after a decade of them living here then you need to think again sorry mate.
Currently under the Libs our borders are secure, our house prices are steady, our companies ( and I mean the little ones owned by us) are prospering, our self funded retirees are sorted, superannuation safe, health and schools growing and funded, immigration capped, highways and roads improving, crime is down, attention to climate policy shitty but getting better cause we demand it, wages Ok considering but will grow when company tax breaks come into play. For me, I don't know why anyone would gamble this away on a bunch of serial stuff ups called the Labor party.
"The only reason the private health system is viable is because it’s underwritten by every Australian" You're merging two different issues. Inefficiencies in private health are a seperate matter (and anyway, it could be easily remedied).
".....and doctors we already lack in sufficient numbers." Have you been to a country hospital lately? Noticed anything about the doctors serving there?
Borders are secure under LNP ?
Please explain why our population is growing at the fastest rate in the developed world then . At least 4000 people each and every week !
And I’m sure house prices are stabilising.....after they oversaw them becoming utterly unaffordable years ago.
The choice between the ALP and the LNP is the choice between a shit sandwich and a vomit taco.
Edited out the racist stuff then Blowin, but we know that's what you really think "Our country" as applied to any other group than the total citizenship is toxic crap.
I think you make some valid points blowin but the private health insurers will set their levies based on risk like all insurers do.
If your house is in a flood zone you’ll pay more. If you keep writing off your car your premiums will go up.
If an elderly person applies for health insurance the insurer will weigh up the risk and may refuse insurance entirely if that risk is to great.
Remember insurers are private companies and rightly should be able to pick and choose who they do business with, particularly if the customer is not Australian? Just like if we go on an overseas holiday and apply for cover, the health insurers will assess your health conditions and may not cover pre-existing conditions etc.
I haven’t edited anything, BB.
And you haven’t been able to refute a single fact I’ve put forward. Back in your box.
Yorkes - If there’s one thing that’s guaranteed about private health in Australia, it’s that they use any excuse to raise premiums. This is a gift to them. They won’t pay the difference.....we will.
" we will be a minority in our own country....." So who is this "we" Blowin? If it is the current citizenship then we would need roughly 20 million Chinese grandmothers to out number us. But you are not referring to ALL citizens are you. Just sliding some shallow racist bullshit in while you had the chance.
Atticus is right about doctors, if the libs could improve on something , it would be to give excellent aussie student achievers free or discounted Uni if they wanted to be doctors. This would help fill those rural places as many smart kids come from the country and would want to return to their home regions to raise a family. I dont mean free Uni for all like Labor bullshits about, but targeted for high achievers.
I have noticed something about doctors in country towns ......they’re never 80 year old Chinese grandmothers without working privileges.
Hmmmm we actually have an over supply of doctors, particularly specialists. There are zero jobs to those qualifying in many areas. The problem is that doctors don't want to work where they are needed, they want to work in desirable locations.
Sweet Jeezus, how is the hysteria!?
Go back and have a look at your first post, Blowie.
Hahahaha! Where'd you get the picture of the inscrutable ancients? The Bulletin pre-WWI?
And how's the erm, commentary!
"...expanding it with thousands of unproductive foreigners with no obligations towards our nation.
Seriously......is this the worst policy in Australia’s history?"
Wait up, next hot mess comment is now they "...will work for cash and DECIMATE wages even further in our country."
And the numbers are now "...hundreds of thousands of foreigners - millions- paying zero tax..."
Oh, and now they're in their mid 40s. That picture wasn't very flattering then!
"We will be a minority in our own country within a decade."
YOU already are a minority in this country, Blowie.
Hanson will get maybe 5% of the vote this time round.
Where'd you pluck your 'factual' numbers from?
"Please tell me which part is bullshit..."
The bigotry hiding behind nearly your every utterance, ya mean?
My biggest problem with it is it undermining everything we've been told for the last few decades ie. we need more young people to pay taxes to look after the oldies.
We've been told to 'suck it up' because we need a bigger tax base. This doesn't just undermine that message, it undermines all that sucking it up we've done over the last few decades. Play it down all you want, but this over the top immigration has come at a huge cost. People are more stressed than ever, every piece of infrastucture is more stressed than ever, hospital waiting lists are more stressed than ever, and social cohesion is at an all time low.
I get it that labor needs to buy some votes, but surely there is something smarter they could do that won't have such long term consequences. Not only are they squandering all that good will and work of the past few decades but they are setting us up for a massive failure of just about every system for the next ten to twenty years. It's fucked, it's so dumb.
I thought the war memorial was dumb. I thought the fracking agreement was really dumb. But this clusterfuck is way way beyond dumb.
Sqandered 20 years of work and set up another 20 years of systems failure. It's beyond desperate, it's outright recklessness to secure some prety vague votes thay may well have already long gone to the LNP. Thats if ALP ever actually had them in the first place. They're crunching the same dodgy numbers, and making the same false identity politics assumptions that fucked over the democrats in the US.
Soooo fucking dumb!
Soooo fucking desperate!
Word Bingo! Identity Politix = $$$
Where's the eggs at?
Easy to silence me , Facto.
Just point out where I’ve said anything untrue.
You’ve had hours to think about it and three attempts at attacking me personally , but still nothing regarding the policy itself.
If a rusted on ALP booster like yourself won’t go near it , then it’s guaranteed that it’s a stinking pile of vote-buying shit and nothing more.
Just tell me how Australia benefits, Facto.
"Currently under the Libs our borders are secure, our house prices are steady, our companies ( and I mean the little ones owned by us) are prospering, our self funded retirees are sorted, superannuation safe, health and schools growing and funded, immigration capped, highways and roads improving, crime is down, attention to climate policy shitty but getting better cause we demand it, wages Ok considering but will grow when company tax breaks come into play. "
Whee hoo down to the bottom of the garden again. Optimist keep taking thre medication. It's doing you good but you know well, how can I put this, hmm don't trust yourself. It's distoerting your perceptions.
"house prices steady" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! We are in the middle of the biggest fall in how long?
"our self funded retirees are sorted" well the rich usually do OK What about those retirees in aged care? The Royal Commission is revealing horrendous mistreatment, under-staffing, over medicating etc etc
"immigration capped". tell that to Blowin, he'll have a stroke!
"health and schools growing". Well health services are not bad if you live in a city or desirable country location (coast preferred). Beyond that they are appalling. Private schools are doing nicely thank you but schools in disadvantaged areas are under funded, under resourced and struggling to cope.
"wages OK" unless you work in aged care, child care, retail, hospitality, agriculture and many other areas. Then you will probably need two jobs each to get ahead.
Delusional bullshit Optimist, sad and pathetic lies to prop up some perverted ideological vision of a New Jerusalem that does not exist!
Bag it all you want but it was a huge part of the democrats 'strategy'. And now it's a huge part of labor's 'strategy'.
A strategy of catasrophic failure in the US, and may well be the same here...
One positive factobum?
Give me one benefit of this policy beyond labor desperately trying to be elected?
Even an improvement in chinese cuisine will do...
A reduction of msg thanks to more homestyle grandma chinese cooking perhaps?
You got anything?
I've had hours of y'know, working. And then watching a few waves at Keramas and Shippies.
And of course catching the latest window-dressing from you, Blowie...
Thousands; millions; minority "Aussies" in a decade??? Where's all that from?
" we will be a minority in our own country....." UNTRUE!
Look out, the odd couple are at it again https://www.instagram.com/p/BrnuaUiFfhR/
"I have noticed something about doctors in country towns ......they’re never 80 year old Chinese grandmothers without working privileges." An answer that sums up why I rarely bother with political discussions.
"Edited out the racist stuff then Blowin, but we know that's what you really think "Our country" as applied to any other group than the total citizenship is toxic crap."
Well, we've already seen your approach to the future of this country and of the world for that matter - unlimited population, sort it out with GM crops and to hell with the environment.
What a citizen, what a forward thinker.
Atticus , you tried to make the point that doctors in country towns were immigrants.
But I’m not against immigration, particularly not skilled immigration.
I’m against deleterious mass immigration and I’m against flooding the country with the elderly parents of migrants to no benefit of the nation beyond securing a few votes for a political party.
You were trying to confuse the issues.
Guy - I’m not competing with BB for attention. I’m just putting forward my thoughts on the only viable media venue open to me. Politics is a war for opinion. If I can inform someone enough to realise what’s what then I’m satisfied. Got to try though , the MSM is complicitly silent on any policy which will increase the consumer population .
Though I’ll be fucked if I’ll be bullied into meekly accepting his sanctimonious deliverances like the school kids he’s accustomed to lording over.
Yeah I know, perhaps more like this then https://www.instagram.com/p/Bq_fCQeFkRz/ but have to say I'm 100% with you giving the bird to mass immigration
Alarmism serves no purpose except to create division and it is clear from some of the posts that, despite denials, their views are based on racist stereotypes. So we have rants about Chinese, but no mention of the fact that our immigration, both historically and currently, comes from a great variety of nations. There is also the mention of "we" and "our country" in contexts that quite clearly suggest these are not references to our whole citizenship.
A few facts.
They have to be entirely self-funded
2. They will have no right to any form of welfare or funded aged care.
3. They will not be permitted to work.
4. The visa will be withdrawn if the sponsorship is withdrawn or they breach the requirements.
People are entitled to their views on immigration but it is despicable to use that right to spread inaccurate descriptions of the possible consequences of proposed policies and to use alarmist and divisive language in a manner likely to increase incidents of racist violence.
“1.They have to be entirely self-funded
2. They will have no right to any form of welfare or funded aged care.
3. They will not be permitted to work.
4. The visa will be withdrawn if the sponsorship is withdrawn or they breach the requirements.”
They are not assessed on their ability to self-fund, all that’s required is that their children have a certain level of income.
That is the measly combined couples income of $83K gross. As I’ve stated , this amount is utterly insufficient.
The policy will inevitably lead to a massive increase in black market labour. Can anyone honestly expect an average adult to move to Australia for 10 years , not receive welfare and never work ? This is deluded thinking.
The policy was aimed at the Chinese ethnic lobby group specifically to counter the unwelcome admission by the Labor party that Chinese were competing with Australians for jobs.
None of what I’ve said is alarmist or inaccurate.
Alarmism is stating that conversation amongst Australians regarding the future direction of their nation should be curtailed as it is “ LIKELY to lead to racial violence”.
That’s actually beyond alarmism , it’s fucking ridiculous is what it is. I expect nothing less.
This policy is likely to increase racist violence more than anything you're rattling on about blindboy.
This policy is a quantum difference to the status quo.
Currently the immigration levels are ridiculously high. The new setting is for uncapped entry.
Literally open borders.
Yep. As if the recent over the top immigration levels haven't been challenging enough...
It's societal suicide
Sorry I edited that, didn't want get between the blindboy blowin lovefest
"Societal suicide"? How about hysterical over reaction? Mindless group think anyone? "A quantum difference to the status quo"? It helps to make sense.
Yawn. Feel free to chat amongst yourselves and remember the Valium. You won't sleep without it after getting your collective knickers in such a god awful knot?
I'm not talking about this year, or even the next, but another five or ten years of status quo, combined with the compounding effects of this policy, and it's effects on availability of services.
Tell me one straight answer blindboy, do you honestly think it's good policy in the current context?
The Thug, the Fizza and the Adman- by anonymous
It was six years ago
we start our tale of woe
When Abbott and his circus came to stay
They’d beaten Kevin Rudd
when help from Murdoch’s mud
and Abbott’s skill at lying won the day
It didn’t take too long
for things to go quite wrong
Their promises were broken from the start
Cormann and Joe Hockey
smoked cigars being cocky
as their budget stunk like a smelly fart
The budget of fourteen
was underhand and mean
so the polls went into terminal decline
We had Abbott’s Dames and Knights
the Egghead’s “Bigots rights”
and backflips from perfidious poodle Pyne
While Abbott led the side
the polls kept on the slide
with his lies and his stupid captain’s picks
The crew were just as weak
they were soon up shit creek
This party of pernicious lying pricks
Things went from bad to worse
as they flogged a dying horse
The backbench thought the jockey was to blame
They tried an empty chair
but the spill went nowhere
they were left with the Thug, though now quite lame
With Bronwyn on the take,
exposed through chopper gate
the public had concluded they’re the worst
They were deep in trouble
inside a bullshit bubble
with just the prick in charge to make it burst.
One September day
Turnbull made his play
And Abbott, still deluded, got the arse
They were sure Malcolm’s words
could polish policy turds
and fool enough to save their sorry farce
Turnbull started well
everything was swell
What a great time it was to be alive
the polls reversed, the party might survive
All was on the table
Malcom seemed so able
but pretty soon the cracks began to show
For him to get the job
he told the right wing mob
He’d keep all Abbott’s nonsense on the go
The voters were surprised
Mal was Tony, in disguise
Relief, turned to dismay, was this a joke
Different coloured ties,
more smiles, but same old lies
with new slogans served with waffle when he spoke
Hey let’s change the GST,
Yeah nah, not going to be
State income tax lasted almost, a day
Poor thinking was the norm
as Mal returned to form
and polls began to turn the other way
Malcolm’s great solution,
was a double dissolution,
an election called out of desperation
New slogans from snake oil man
“Jobs and Growth” and “plan”
So much for intelligent conversation
Then on election night
the polls were very tight
Nobody knew who’d lead Australia
Whatever be the score
One thing we knew for sure
Mad monk and the Fizza, both were failures
With a lead of just one
the fun had just begun
The senate was worse and full of crackers
With Abbott set to plot
a feral senate lot,
the right held tight their grip on Malcolm’s knackers
Yet Malcolm thought it wise
to bring in Abbott’s spies
Giving ministries to Dutton and Mathias
Although it must be said
with wood that’s mainly dead
There wasn’t much to choose amongst the liars
So Malcolm’s brilliant plan
was heading for the can
The senate or the right would hold the rein
As Malcolm waffled on
and on and on and on
divisions in the party room remained
We had a plebiscite
Demanded by the right
Even though the public view was clear
Despite the bigots best
the verdict came back YES!
Love had won over ignorance and fear
Forced into submission
the banking commission
revealed how these crooks would lie and steal
The bankers soon were seen
as morally obscene
with government asleep behind the wheel
Polls were front of mind
They were always behind
thirty losses on the trot would soon arrive
Though Mal was within striking
Abbott kept on sniping
and talk began whether Mal would survive
Murdoch came back to town
Intent to bring Mal down
Dutton was the puppet to wield the knife
Mal called forth a spill
He survived but very ill
Mal was fighting for his political life
This bunch of buffoons
behaved like bar room hoons
threatening and bullying their pals
Dutton just was Dutton
a deluded thug with nothin
but that didn’t stop these jokers killing Mal
The spud thought he was in
He’d practiced how to grin
Morrison and Bishop both organised
Bishop first got booted
then Dutton got rooted
and Morrison prevailed to win the prize
Morrison started fast
to cover up the past
Spinning he was one of those blameless guys
Why did Mal have to go?
Morrison didn’t know
It wasn’t him, he’s just PM, surprise!
Morrison is a jerk
His default face, a smirk
His try hard baseball hat, a Trump like fake
He’s all stunts and spin
with smug and smirking grin
“Fair dinkum”, “daggy dad”, give me a break.
When parliament was back
along came medivac
Morrison started whistling, “stop the boats”
He thought it opportune
to use his favoured tune
and a scare campaign to move some simple votes
The stage was all prepared
for an Asylum seeker scare
a play in which Morrison had once starred
but Christchurch drew a line
on racist, hateful slime
Morrison couldn’t play his favoured card
The budget came and went
A useless non event
soon the election was off and running
To nobodies surprise
Their plan is built on lies
and Morrison’s skills at pure rat cunning
In just a few more sleeps
We can remove these creeps
But in politics nothing is certain
After six years of farce
This mob should get the arse
I won’t applaud until the final curtain
Here's a little thing to consider this week. Call it an investigative project of sorts.
This 'story' spruiked by the likes of MacroBollocks, picked up and spread by Bolt and other Murdoch minions, then kicked around on social media and other online forums, hysteria ramping up at each step...how long till the desperate ProMo and the Lib brains trust, if they think it's gaining 'traction', start blurting it round as the last ditch scare effort?
What'd ya reckon? Wednesday? Thursday? Dutton the spokesman? Or the Prime Marketer going Trumpy-like solo?
Good stuff, Westy! The Thug, the Fizza, and the Adman. Hahaha. Nugget Chaucer's The Canberran Tales.
Where's the former Nats head the Beetrooter fit in (so to speak)? Or the other bloke, the incumbent, Whatisface?
well there'd be fools not to if they're not on board with it. It's an abysmal idea, desperation beyond belief.
I'll ask you...one straight answer factobum, do you honestly think it's good policy in the current context?