What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 3:48pm

Any policy change could have a trigger effect on boat arrivals, the government are smart to make this clear, just because it doesn't happen doesn't mean the risk is not there, its an unknown factor, basically playing with fire.

Yes you can turn boats back but it only takes one to get too far and you are back at square one putting people back on Manus or Nauru, and fun and games and all the other BS begins again.

It's going to be interesting if labor get back in how they approach this issue it's one area where the liberals have done an amazing job especially after the mess Rudd created and it's an area where Scomo did an outstanding job.

Ive never voted liberals in my life, but this is the issue that could see me voting liberal rather than just leave my ballot blank..

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 3:52pm

Avoid confronting the reality all you like , but if you took away the extra 5 million people who’ve been added to Australia’ Population since 2010, there would be :

Housing approx 50 percent cheaper

Higher wages

Less congestion/ infrastructure shortfall

Shorter hospital waiting times

Better environment

Less pressure on drinking water

Less development

More space

Less unemployment/ underemployment

A better Australia.

Thems the facts , people. Ignore them if you’re so inclined, but don’t insult those who know that adding more people is only going to lead to greater declines in our nation.

Mass immigration isn’t solely responsible for all of our woes , but it is a primary and unnecessary contributor to most of them.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:07pm

Hahahahahahahahahhaha!!!!

Larry & Moey, stop it!!!!

You're killing us!!!!

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:12pm

only takes one boat to get through, does it indo?

well, a boat of 17 Vietnamese people arrived on the FNQ caost in the daintree on August 17. and that's just the latest.

the LNP has not stopped boat arrivals at all. anyway, the majority of people arriving in australia and claiming aslyum arrive via plane.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:07pm

Seriously...it's 2019, we've had 18 years of this refugee bullshit. Are we still falling for it?

Control the borders, yeah, but for Christ sake dont fall for the fear of invasion.

And dont conflate it with rampant immigration. 200,000 immigrants vs 2,000 boat people.

It's the non-issue of all non-issues.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:09pm

"Them's the facts, people." - Blowindo.

2 headless chooks with one stone.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:10pm

How about 150,000 less immigrants and 30,000 more refugees ?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:12pm

It's not really a 'more of this, less of that' matter. What grates is the omniscience of the issue, the offensive amount of money we spend, and the political ground made over what's a trivial matter in the scheme of running a country.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:20pm

You say that from the perspective whereby boat arrivals weren’t allowed to reach their zenith . If we’d welcomed arrivals with open arms , who’s to say that we might not have been looking at a similar rates of “ refugees “ as faced by Europe ?

It’s easy to say that most asylum seekers come by plane , but there is a reason that people are willing to pay a smuggler $5K for a dodgy boat trip as opposed to a $400 flight from Indo.

You ever tried entering Australia at the airport after you’ve destroyed your documents ?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:24pm

I did say control the borders.

Just do it. And don't turn every election into a refugee slugfest.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:33pm

Gets very boring.

And ignores the important stuff. But what else does the LNP have ?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:40pm

BB you say "Go look who is living in those developments. Retirees and young families most of who, were born or grew up here."

Yes the vast majority of arrivals in northern NSW are Australian-born but why are they leaving the main population centres and why do they have enough cash to buy (and push prices up) anywhere else in the country??

My argument makes perfect sense - huge population growth
a) is a disaster for the environment and
b) helps to increase housing prices.

Sure, the debt explosion was a primary driver of house prices at one stage but the population ponzi has been the primary driver more recently.

Greed and poor governance are always issues but the simple fact is that people have recognised that massive population increases are bad news and they want a change.

Obfuscate all you want.

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:53pm

it's bong o'clock at chez chook...all further political discussion should be in the form of music videos. thank you.

the public gets what the public wants...

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:51pm

"But what else does the LNP have ?"

Negative gearing & franking credits bad juju.

The same ol' F.E.A.R* party as directed by the IPA, Textor, Murdoch etc

(*Fuckwits Exalting Ayn Rand)

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:52pm

Andy M, not in WAs case? Housing bubble was 12-15 years or so ago?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:52pm

Or is it the public wants what the public gets, Chook?

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:53pm

Rocking song , good sentiment and great scarf.

Thinking of getting a neoprene version knocked up for those in between days - too cold for boardies , too hot for a vest.

Perfect scarf weather.

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 4:55pm

i'm a jazz poet, andy. but you're probably right.

chook's picture
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chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:18pm

and a nice neoprene fishtail parka for trips to vicco?
any old scooterist here? the adelaide mob were the wildest and weirdest.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:05pm

You're saying the housing bubble is "gone" Facto? Really?

Things have certainly slumped but in the bigger picture they look reasonably expensive.

https://reiwa.com.au/the-wa-market/perth-suburbs-price-data/

Median sale prices look pretty exxy too.
Basically, ratio of sales price to median income says that Perth is still in a bubble for the moment, the ratio is still miles above historical averages.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-25/house-price-to-income-ratio/9361112

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:11pm

Facto - again , well pointed out.

WA housing price growth began decline in 2013 ......exact same time as population growth went into decline.

Mass immigration = Massive house prices.

But don’t take my word for it . What does a vested interest have to say on the matter ?

https://www.propertyobserver.com.au/finding/location/wa/40673-perth-is-h... “ But, the bigger concern for Perth’s market is on the demand side of the equation. Perth’s impressive run as the nation’s leader in population growth stakes has ground to a halt.“

Facto - Youve got a thing for pushing it uphill , huh ? I don’t see what you get out of this constant shit talk when you obviously don’t like masses of humanity, judging from where you live.

It’s more defence of the ALP isn’t it ? Well here’s a hint ....tell them to change their fucking policies to recognise the best interests of the Australian population and the country we live in.

Problem solved .....the people and the country are better off, the ALP gets to be government and you can give up your indefensible position on the matter.

Everyone wins.

Except maybe the prospective immigrant Chinese grandmothers who have yet to tap into our welfare main vein. Surely China can support them , they’re a global power after all.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:09pm

It's how the song goes Chook, off the top of my head it's a stab at manipulative media.

They first use your line then my line later in the song.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:27pm

Well Andy if you can demonstrate that the rate of internal migration to coastal towns correlates with the rate of immigration, you may have the beginnings of an argument. But I would bet the main driver is baby boomers like me who are either short of super or still have a mortgage and so are down pricing to a desirable location for their retirement. As for house prices you want to have a quid both ways. Immigration driving up prices, implying a shortage of stock and massive overdevelopment implying an adequate stock or over supply. You can get a bit of both but that weakens both your arguments.

chook's picture
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chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:28pm

yeah, you're righ andy. just using the old jazz poet excuse to cover for my lack of attention to pertinent details.

chook's picture
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chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:32pm

talking of immigration...i have to compose my valentine day card to my immigrant wife. north americans take all hallmark card holidays very, very seriously. so mark that one down against immigrants as well as the housing bubble.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:34pm

No one wants to halt immigration, Chook.

Just stop fire hosing the population growth rate.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:41pm

The sleazy, lying, loony Liberal right have gone into full bullshit scare mode. Can't answer a simple question because it would reveal the moronic nature of their argument. I mean do they really think that Australians are so stupid they can't read or think? Apparently so. The coalition is out to lock up the idiot vote. Meanwhile the 99% who can both read and think are wondering how we came to be represented by a sleaze bag who is not even very good at being a sleazebag. Compare him to Howard. Third rate. I mean you need to have a couple of toes on the ground if you want people to listen. Floating up into the stratosphere in a self-propelled hot air balloon just leaves people wondering what particular sort of complete fucking idiot you might be. Demented? Paranoid? Delusional? Come down Scummo! Come down mate! Too high! Too far! Too soon! Nah, don't bother, give us a break and just fuck off.

chook's picture
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chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:43pm

well i think it's clear i'm not anti-immigration. i'm just anti-hallmark card holidays and the sway they have with certain immigrant groups in this country.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 5:46pm

@Chook

Yes which only goes to show the real risk and that as good as boat turn backs are, if we got a flood boats would slip through putting us back years..and that would be a nightmare having to listen to all these clueless leftards whinge about Manus and Nauru all over again.

Like it or not, boats trying to get to Australia have reduced hugely from a flood under Rudd to a trickle under current government, reality is there is only so many times a refugee is going to pay thousands of dollars for a trip to the middle of the ocean and back to Indonesia again.(and no people smugglers don't give refunds for unsuccessful attempts)

This has been confirmed by refugees in Indonesia who have tried numerous times and given up for now, but we also know those with money will try again when there is a sign of possible success change of government change of policy like stoping boat turn backs etc

Actually there is a reason why people pay thousands of dollars to enter by boat instead of arriving by plane.

Because you need a visa to enter Australia, you cant just jump on a plane and arrive in Australia and seek refugee like is commonly believed.

You first must get a tourist visa or other visa then once in Australia apply for temporary protection as an Asylum seeker like that Saudia Arabia chick was going to do the other week but got stuck in Thailand.(anyway why was she in Thailand when she had a ticket to OZ?)

To get a tourist visa or other type of Visa if your from a country where refugees come from is very hard.

BTW. I believe temporary protection Visas also cant lead to permanent residency they are temporary protection visas aimed at providing protection until its safe to return home...something those who arrive by boat don't want to do.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:02pm

Gold Coasters live in the future...Ha Ha! Read it & weep!
Gold Coast has long been Australia's fastest Growing City.

We'll let you peak into your own future...Back to Front Downunder Model .

Fastest Growing City is wedged tight at central east Oz Coastline/border
It can't budge volcano or ocean only sprawls North < > South along #1 Oz Corridor.
Any hold up at Gold Coast slows all Major cities supply line penalising all of Oz.

Now all here see the need to clear Oz hotspot affordably,efficiently & quickly.
Possibly not Top 10 on to do list but near to it & decades overdue.

Several Airports line this stretch from south Ballina/Gold Coast/Bne/ Sunny Coast.
A fool could see the gold in hoovering all these AirPorts with VFT route...
No GC Mayors or Airport CEO's have submitted an East Coast VFT route.(Avoid it!)
Perfect fast growing population for Govt/Corp Airtrain Trial at half Warp speed.
I've written to City/State/Feds over the need for Gold Coast leading VFT hub role.

VFT Route now bypasses busiest route for empty mountain top cowpat route.
Gold Coast could Hub & breathe it life, without it we forever bottleneck Oz.
VFT link Syd < > Bne < (Faster) > S' Coast Airport ( GC Tram slows us dearly)
That despite Gold Coast Airport being 200 kms + 2hrs closer to Sydney?
No kidding Folks! Council of Mayors (SEQ) Declare all must 1st enter via Bne portal.

Inter City Bne < > Gold Coast line would gain to help clear the N < > S bottle neck.
Bne Airport < > GC Airport Rail connect completion date 2016.(Oops!)
Qld Govt now says 2 biggest closest Qld Cities won't be reconnected until 2038
1900 > 50 men 2 years to clear/lay track.Now($2.8b/40% gst)>22yrs to relay track.

Intercity Train bones are picked clean by 'Rapid Transit' (Oz slowest Longest Tram)
Timeshare Trolley is like Joh's mobile real estate office for Australian retirees.
Enclaving Gold Coast transit to golf resort speed for property duties/rates upzones.
(1880) 2.5hr Economic penalty is offset by Feds & Oz Tax payers compo.
DLS put 1hr behind now add 2.5hr transit return penalty for 3.5 hrs behind Oz.
Govt/Council shrug it off as Tram rewards them 10 fold the impost to city populace.

Going Backward! As none of these Airports are linked directly by Govt Lines.
In fact Govt sold off direct Bus Lines to the expensive private Airport SkyBus.
Tram rips up remaining faster free Senior Buslines/Network maps.(No Choice)
Gold Coast #1 Tourist hub is the only Oz City not to offer free Tourist Loops.
Now you see Tram doubling as Oz #1 Commuter Transit Tax.
Govt's see Buses as Elite personal Taxis where kids avoid fares. Buses are going!
All development/transit is massaged to #1 HeroTram (Cams/Guards enforce fares).

The transit blueprint for Oz fastest growing City (H'vle -N'hub < >GCA-S'hub)
VFT Syd >(GC)< Bne (Bne won't surrender to GC the 1st bite at Sydney market)
Airtrain Bne < > H'vle- GCA 25mins (Gvt/gccc-No real estate return-Dump it!)
Bus H'vle-GCA 53mins (Tram competition! Cancelled with GC shuttle sell off)
SkyBus 2-4hrs (Airport direct Govt Bus Licence) Hotel Luggage line haul.
1903 South Coast Steamtrain 1:10 mins +wc (Way too fast/convenient)
Tram H'vle -GCA 1:40 mins ( Operates on 1800's Timeshare Table...Ca Ching!)

Every City Council now wants a Timeshare Trolley to up zone their city.
People think pre Steam Era was slow. No! We're pushing back much further.
Understand that all transit is slowed to Tram Resort speed even skateboards.

Blindboy is right...Cities will soon be selling mining leases for stray 5 cent pieces.
Cityscape is not shaped by immigration. Govt are the new Whiteshoe Brigade.
Corruption is so normal Council Shareholders laugh at leaving the room request.

Our Mayor is only pollie in Oz not to have an AEC account.
He says his way is fairer. Just slip the brown paper bags into his Wife's handbag.
Fair enough the CCC said...just give the AEC some thought next time around.

Poor chick Mayoral candidate who part nodded at a photo on the side of a bus.
Every night they parade creature in irons until she's booed from our TV Screens.

Fasted Growing City presents & ticks own boxes on the run. Truth gets in the way.

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:04pm

so what you're saying is dutton will write my valentine day's card for me if i vote for the liberals?

btw: i was an illegal immigrant, so bite me!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:09pm

"As for house prices you want to have a quid both ways."

No I don't.

"Immigration driving up prices, implying a shortage of stock and massive overdevelopment implying an adequate stock or over supply. You can get a bit of both but that weakens both your arguments."

Broad scale development doesn't at all imply that it's keeping up with the numbers of immigrants arriving.

You got a hand full of straws yet BB?

By the way, to keep things clear:

"No one wants to halt immigration, just stop fire hosing the population growth rate."

Agreed.

And "well i think it's clear i'm not anti-immigration. i'm just anti-hallmark card holidays"

Agreed ;)

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:17pm

"demonstrate that the rate of internal migration to coastal towns correlates with the rate of immigration,"

I'm keen to look into it.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:23pm

Good song choice before, Chook. Here's another just for PM ProMo and the good ol' boys...

And Andy M & Moey, Perth is WA? Not my town, not my experience. And bullshit to boot. Still no immigrants crowding out the line-up. And that ridiculous, nay stupid, bollocks you wrote yesterday about why people are coming down this way, Blowie, was very revealing. Well, not really. Your veneer was stripped off long ago. Even accounting for the goldfish memories on here.

Forget pushing the proverbial up the hill, you're all over the place like a mad woman's shite (old Irish saying).

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:30pm

Back to ad hominem already ?

First sign of no reply .

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:31pm

BB need to include Keatings quote also "lazy Liberals"

spuddyjack's picture
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spuddyjack commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:44pm

It's one thing to sanctimoniously discourse the exploitative potential for large carrying capacity - another to realistically envisage quality of life factors for the inhabitants, flora, fauna and future generations.

Gondwana 94% desert.

Stay salty

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:49pm

"And that ridiculous, nay stupid, bollocks you wrote yesterday about why people are coming down this way, Blowie, was very revealing. Well, not really. Your veneer was stripped off long ago. Even accounting for the goldfish memories on here.'

"White flight is when people who didn’t grow up in high density crush zones with a high proportion of foreign culture move to an area where they are surrounded by a culture they are comfortable with. You know , that’s why people move to a whitebread town like Margaret River, to be amongst a familiar culture."

Yelling out 'ad hominem' ain't cutting it, Moey. What a crock of ridiculous shit!

At least this crud was funny. Kinda.

"Australia in the period 75-95 was as good as life has ever been for anyone in the history of the world."

Curls & Larry loved it! Didn't get the joke, but. Says it all.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:53pm

""My main issue is with the media generated blindness to the real causes of our problems. It is very convenient for those doing well under the current poor governance to blame immigration."

And rev up and rally the ones who aren't, and the ones who feel they aren't, doing well."

I hate to break it to you, again, but it isn't even about doing well. I'm doing alright, and I know a heap of crew doing alright. But they're still pissed off about the way things are heading. The bottom line is that in the current model, if you're doing alright, you have no choice but to keep working your arse off or your going backwards fast. It's a fucking travellator.

And competition for resources is driving that travellator

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:58pm

Moe said this? First time ever?

"No one wants to halt immigration, just stop fire hosing the population growth rate."

Baby steps.

And where's the fire again?

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 6:57pm

"And competition for resources is driving that travellator".

What does this even mean?

All things immigration, again?

Balderdash.

"My main issue is with the media generated blindness to the real causes of our problems."

Try again.

Again!!!!

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 7:01pm

"Regardless of arguments about immigration numbers, who, where etc running 547 visa's before training kids is criminal I think"

Absolutely!

Criminal and so dumb, it makes no sense

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 7:03pm

opinion facto, opinion

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 7:23pm

Onion, Tony, onion.

"Regardless of arguments about immigration numbers, who, where etc running 547 visa's before training kids is criminal I think"

Destroy TAFE! Under-fund universities. Encourage TWVs. Foreign students. All with backdoor citizenship enticements. And brag about it! Who dat?

Here's Johnny!!!!

Add that to his economic structural deficits, wealth-care, and assorted cultural warrior bollocks, and we're still labouring and trying to deal with his 'legacies' today!!!!

Asylum seeker hysteria, especially!

No Tampa election magic for PM ProMo, surely?!

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 7:07pm

How about 150,000 less immigrants and 30,000 more refugees ?

Yes.

Though I would have gone less migrants.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 7:10pm

Why?

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 7:39pm

because australia needs to cut migration hugely

Initially...

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 8:03pm

No matter the type of immigration or numbers.

If it isn't already being done, there should be priority given to certain age groups and restricted numbers on others to ensure balance.

For instance focus on those who are younger who will pay tax for years to come, but restrict those of retirement age or getting close too that will be eligible to get the pension or put pressure on medical services, aged care etc.

Basically we should be making it very hard for anyone over 40 to come to Australia unless they have something very good to bring to the table or have another very good reason to migrate here like close family etc

Is this being done or something similar?

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Wednesday, 13 Feb 2019 at 11:38pm

Facto - "Not my town, not my experience. And bullshit to boot. Still no immigrants crowding out the line-up."

What are you saying?

Are you saying that there hasn't been an increase in population where you live?
Or are you saying that there aren't immigrants moving to your town?

Hey BB, check this out -

"Housing demand from immigration shouldn’t lead to higher prices if enough dwellings are built quickly and at low cost. In post-war Australia, record rates of home building matched rapid population growth. House prices barely moved.

But over the last decade, home building did not keep pace with increases in demand, and prices rose. Through the 1990s, Australian cities built about 800 new homes for every extra 1,000 people. They built half as many over the past eight years."

https://theconversation.com/how-migration-affects-housing-affordability-...

It's a no-win situation (although that should be fairly obvious).

Build enough houses to keep prices in check and you exacerbate the sprawl and bulldoze more and more.
Take it easy on the environment (although we haven't even mentioned water or carbon footprint or anything else) and you're either living in dog boxes and/or prices are through the roof.

Of course either way, there's a shitload more people and an impossible infrastructure conundrum.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Thursday, 14 Feb 2019 at 2:06am

Well Andy M, what's the question here? Immigrants fucking up the system? Or shit government doing the same?

Checked your east coast shit media bias lately? Had a critical think?