What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

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indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 7:59pm

Oh please Blindboy your quoting Daniel Webb for fucks sake that guy spins more shit than crypto.

For one minute lets just take a neutral non bias view for a minute and be logical.

Why on earth would the government spend all this money on medical staff and medical facilities etc and then deny treatment?

Why give refugee advocates exactly what they want?

Denying treatment etc plays into the hands of refugee advocates and their media and opposition etc

The government don't want these media reports that want a smooth running ship, they want refugees as healthy as possible and don't want deaths etc, if they really were in need of medical treatment they would get them sorted out quick smart to avoid another death that would be exploited by both refugee advocates and the opposition party in power..

The problem is you have refugees, refugee advocates and others who will do anything possible to further their cause to get these people to Australia, we have seen them use all kinds of methods.

Allegations of torture, sexual abuse etc...so the government has moved as many as possible into the community so it takes away their responsibility so these allegations cant have any substance.

So then they move onto using children as pawns, mental health, self harm, suicidal etc and the medical thing, the problem with things like mental health, self harm, suicidal aspects etc is its not a physical thing, you can just say yeah it real or its not...so any Doctor, phycologist etc accessing them has to believe what is said, even if they think they are full of shit, none are every going to say...argh sorry they are full of shit.

Imagine if they did and then that person thought I've got to push things further and made a suicide attempt or self harm...that Doctor. Phycologist would be totally grilled by the media, refugee advocates, opposition etc and their reputation totally ruined.

The default approach from the doctor, psychologist even if they know they are full of shit is to say, yep this person needs to get to Australia for treatment ASAP.

I mean just the numbers don't add up you have 1,500 people but you have huge numbers of people who cant be treated locally.

I mean how do local people deal with their medical problems, get flown to OZ?

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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Blowin commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 7:52pm

BB - Swellnet’s very own Jenny Leong.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 7:52pm

Whatever happened to the manus Nauru report?.....did any of this get investigated. Outcomes?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 8:17pm

Indo, I have come to the reluctant conclusion that you are suffering a serious empathy deficit compounded by an extreme case of confirmation bias. If you refuse to consider the detailed evidence about the appalling treatment of refugees on Manus and Nauru then bask in your ignorance, but enjoy the moment. Reality bites and the views you represent are those of a dying Australia, an anachronistic survival from the 1950s struggling to draw its last feeble breaths. Enjoy your long after life as an irrelevant whingeing old fart out of touch with the real country in which you live,

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sypkan commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 8:41pm

maybe answer his points blindboy rather than the psych analysis

Both sides are lying way too much about this issue, always have.

On the radio today they said 1000 people have already come to oz under current rules for medical reasons, many of them stayed.

Apparently 300 people already have two doctors lined up ready to come to oz this time for medical reasons, they'll probably end up staying too.

Mission accomplished,....I think...for someone...maybe....

It's the gratuitous gaming of the system that pisses people off

Pretty sure you can be pissed off and have empathy at the same time

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 8:36pm

Okay, then can you give me a reason why the government be it Liberal or Labour are going to do the things you believe are happening?

Where's the motive? What's the aim?

Why give refugees, refugee advocates, media, and the opposition party what they want?

Makes no sense at all, but I'm all ears to your theory.

Is there a motive or aim for refugees, refugee advocates, media, opposition party in these allegations ?

Refugees and advocates= obviously want to fast track and put pressure on the government to be resettled in a developed country.

Media= Aim is to make money and sell stories, these stories make a good read, hearing about refugees going about life on an island doesn't make a good story.

Opposition party= Aim is to make the other party look bad and for them to look good to get voters support.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 8:48pm

BTW. I don't know if its true...but this is cut and pasted from a refugee on Manus i spoke with via messenger (civilly just trying to understand how they think)

"Yes,,still in manus.
About 50 guys from manus have been settled in Australia. They were on manus with us. They went there for medical treatment and government give them visas"

This was from early 2017, he honestly believed others from Manus had gone to Australia for medical treatment and been resettled

BTW. dude still seems to be on Manus, but he did check in to a cafe in port morsby in June..so go figure.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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blindboy commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 9:27pm

Indo, I think you are full of shit. You just asserted that 50 refugees from Manus, taken to Australia for treatment were given residency following treatment. If you cannot provide the details of these events then gloves off mate ...... Put up or shut up because if you can't you're a fucking low life liar. Dates and any other supporting data or eat my shit for ever.

happyasS's picture
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happyasS commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 9:29pm

Enquiry into the Nauru files. Remember those 2000 reports....???? Child abuse etc etc. Conveniently forgotten.

https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Legal_an...

Just read the chairmans report and the 12 recommendations.

The centre was poorly run. Or continue to think is was ok because you want to believe that.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 15 Feb 2019 at 9:37pm

No you wouldn't know if it's true but you will spread it anyway because it fits in with your toxic vision. Classic fascist bullshit. How do feel? Ashamed of spreading toxic bullshit or proud to have contributed to the cause? Let me guess. How do you feel? Nothing at all 'cos you really couldn't give a flying fuck about the issue anyway. You're just some bored lonely arsehole with nothing better to do.

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factotum commented Monday, 25 Feb 2019 at 7:00pm

"Let me guess. How do you feel? Nothing at all 'cos you really couldn't give a flying fuck about the issue anyway. You're just some bored lonely arsehole with nothing better to do."

Surprise!!!!

The m.o. of the 24/7 usual suspects. Plain for all to see for a long while now. Know nothing, don't wanna know anything.

Weird, sad kunts.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 16 Feb 2019 at 7:18am

@Blindboy

You never answered or gave any kind of theory?

Again

Where's the motive? What's the aim?

Why give refugees, refugee advocates, media, and the opposition party what they want?

Makes no sense at all, but I'm all ears to your theory.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 16 Feb 2019 at 7:17am

I didn't assert anything.

This is straight from a guy at Manus. (in 2017)

If you don't believe me, I'm happy to provide the evidence to you privately that I'm not bull shiting, i never thought it was true but this was what he believed, so assume others at least on Manus believe.

Which i guess is the point.

I can take screen shots of the chat if you like and post links and you will see I'm not making it up. (you will also see that although i did ask some hard questions i did it civilly and respectfully as possible)

But do people think it's okay to post the chat here? with the guys facebook details?

Is this ethical?...dont know?....give me the okay and i will post it

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 16 Feb 2019 at 8:17am

Here you go, i marked over his face and his last name.

https://imgur.com/a/VUoxgQc

BTW. in regards to empathy, i have plenty of empathy for people....

But reality is these people are in the lucky 1% of refugees they will receive a new life in some developed country, many already have gone to the USA...

Waiting on Manus or Nauru in conditions much better than the majority of the world population live for a few years even ten years in the scheme of things is nothing, most refugees struggle to survive of their own funds or UNCHR help and never get a chance of a new life

But yeah like Sypkan said, i guess its the ungratefulness and gaming the system that pissed people off, and no I'm not in a minority.

As for questioning my character...look it doesn't really bother me if you did a little digging and joined a few dots together and many people who lurk here do, you would soon learn I've put in huge amounts of time and put in decent money to lift quite a few people(whole non related family's) in Indonesia out of poverty and set them up for life.(and i do encourage them to spread the wealth and give back to their communities)

Yeah sure i now get perks, but for years and years i did it purely out of good will, to be honest i actually enjoy helping people, the NGO thing is probably something i will do in Indonesia once i retire and I've already been offered a position to run on the ground programs in Mentawais, but unfortunately i had to turn down the offer as currently the income/lifestyle doesn't agree with family life.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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factotum commented Saturday, 16 Feb 2019 at 10:29am
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thermalben commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 6:44am

Roman Quaedvlieg posted an interesting thread on Twitter yesterday which I'll copy below (for the sake of convenience, rather than embedding every single Tweet). But I encourage you to follow him: https://twitter.com/quaedvliegs

For those that don't know, Roman is a former Commissioner of the Australian Border Force.

I’ve noticed some commentary on the differences between asylum seekers (AS) arriving by boat in Australia versus those arriving by plane; so I thought it might be useful to put out a thread to help clarify and inform the debate.

We don’t have land borders, so (AS) seeking haven in Australia only have two options: by air or by sea, the latter really only starting in the mid 70s when people were fleeing Vietnam after the civil war.

AS arriving by air have always had a wide composition of nationalities by virtue of the global nature of the aviation sector, while those arriving by boat were historically from countries closer to Australia due the long distances by sea.

The last two waves of boat arrivals (mid 2000s and mid 2010s) have seen an increase of nationalities arriving via this mode. The next tweet lists the nationalities of AS arriving by boat roughly in descending order of numbers.

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Sri Lanka
Stateless
Iraq
Bangladesh
Myanmar
Somalia
Other

Mode of arrival is not a reliable indicator of wealth. For e.g many Iranians arriving on boats are relatively wealthy, while other nationalities arriving by plane are poor. Nationality is a more reliable indicator of wealth. For e.g Myanmarese are usually penurious.

Numbers of AS arriving by air were stable between 2008 & 2015 growing from around 5000 to 9000 p.a. They have doubled & trebled respectively on those numbers in the last two years as follows.

2016-2017:    18290
2017-2018:    27931

The highest recorded number of boat arrivals in Australia was in 2012-2013 at 25173, less than last year’s number of air arrival AS.

AS arriving by boat are more likely to have been ‘in transit’ longer before making the final leg to Australia, often spending months/years in transit countries like Indonesia. They are also more likely to have registered (or found to be refugees) with UNHCR than air arrivals.

Contrary to popular opinion, boat travel is not cheaper than air travel. Average berth from Java-Xmas Island is btw $5K-$10K; whereas a flight from Tehran- Sydney is around $1500. Boat AS have also spent much money (often by air) to get to transit countries & embarkation points.

Air arrivals provide more layers of structured control for Australian authorities to identify, assess and respond to AS. Controls include incoming pax manifests, boarding points, the primary line, travel documents etc. ‘Turnaround’ decisions are more easily made.

AS arriving by air have averaged 76 per day in the last year in a daily pax inflow of 52000 across 8 airports, mostly in a 24/7 operating context. It’s roughly the equivalent of one boat arrival every day of the year.

Each air arrival AS claim is dealt with individually by ABF & Dept at the local level, with trends scrutinised by executives in Canberra. Boat arrivals on the other hand are dealt with as cohort involving deployed teams of asylum claim assessors.

Mode of arrival is irrelevant to the legality or validity of a claim for asylum, which is enshrined in both the Refugee Convention and in domestic law as being perfectly legal. 

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blindboy commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 7:55am

Indo, apologies for the insult. It was not justified........ but I still think you fail to understand how bad the conditions on Manus and Nauru actiually are. You really need to factor in the impact of indefinite detention on mental health. The other point is that comparisons to other groups of refugees are not valid. Much as we might like to help the 22 million refugees globally, our capacity to do do is limited to charitable donations. The ones on Manus and Nauru are in our care. We are responsible for their health and well being. Finally the motivation for maintaining harsh conditions has been exposed over a long period. It is to scare off other asylum seekers from coming here. This is reprehensible behaviour.

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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 8:05am

For asylum (temporary protection) not for refugee resettlement:

That is the difference, if it was as easy as anyone with a passport jumping on a plane to seek refugee in Australia and just turning up at the airport without a visa, nobody would bother with a boat.

But you first need a tourist visa to enter Australia and apply for asylum, its not easy to get tourist visas from many countries, especially those that refugees come from, you generally need to prove you have money for your stay, and most importantly you need to prove you have something to go back too like a steady job, own a house etc, often need to prove your health with a full medical etc, only gets much easier when you have a travel record of traveling to other countries and returning home.

And even then once in Australia and you apply for the protection Visa, (TPI) Temporary protection Visa, only last 3 to 5 years before you must apply again.

Once they apply again if they find the circumstances of applicant has changed and its safe to return home, the visa will then be cancelled and they must return home.

This was different prior to 2012 when permeant protection visa were available to please arrivals, labor actually changed it, but it is a policy liberals support, although labor want to change it back.

Now the important thing here is:

TPI visas don't eat into our offshore resettlement quota which make up almost all if not all now of our refugee resettlement quota.

There was actually a good interview only yesterday with the previous immigration minister under Rudd on most of these aspects, first time I've ever heard anyone in media talk about the importance of our resettlement programs

BTW. that comparing price of boat and plane saying boat travel is cheaper makes no sense.

5-10K to Christmas island
1.5k for a flight

Plane: may or may not have extra travel expenses, but in most cases those by plane come direct from the country they live.

Boat: has extra travel expenses to get to Indonesia.

Even if they wanted to arrive by plane they could depart from Indonesia which we know is not that expensive.

Boat: Indonesia to Australia=$5K-10K
Plane=Indonesia to Australia=generally less than $500

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 8:18am

@Blindboy appreciate the apology.

BTW i messaged that guy in Manus again on the weekend.(first time since 2017)

He says or reckons he is now being resettled in Australia

in his words (after asking if he was still on Manus or gone to USA, i knew he was still in Manus though but needed a conversation starter)

"I'm coming to Australia" "so see you soon" "About a few flown yesterday to Brisbane"

I asked how come?...you come via medical air vacation?

He said: "i cant tell you how"

BTW. I asked him why he got to go to to Port Morsby, was it an excursion (as they actually have trips but normally just local excursions)

He said he got "migration took him to have interview with border force, and were happy with his behaviour"

Pretty sure those who behave are the ones that got resettled in USA.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 1:07pm

One aspect that has confused me a little on this issue recently is:

The reopening of Xmas island, it kind of didn't make sense at first..basically moving home base closer to Indonesia.

But I'm guessing the real reason is, now people from Manus and Nauru can get to Australia easier using excuses of medical treatment, we will see these people trying to explore the legal system to try to stay here.

This is the whole and real reason behind refugee advocates etc too get this bill passed.

While these legal claims are being processed they most likely need to stay in Australia on bridging visa's. being part of Australia I'm betting these people will be moved to Xmas island while awaiting outcomes.

This would make sense.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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blindboy commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 3:35pm

Maybe Indo, I think it is just part of Scomo's scare campaign that there is going to be an increase in arrivals by boat from Indonesia though all the evidence is against it. One aspect you are probably aware of is how much effort has been made in Indonesia to stop the boats. It's a bigger risk now for all involved with much less chance of success.

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factotum commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 5:36pm

Stop the bollocks!

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blindboy commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 6:46pm

That's great factotum! Truth? Nah not in the mix!

Meanwhile the Paladin contract costs us $1600 a day per person on Manus ....... without food or welfare services. Who are Paladin? A company whose head office is a shack on a dirt road on Kangaroo Island, that also has connections in PNG political circles. How did they get the contract? Don't ask Peter Dutton, he knows nooththing!

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factotum commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 6:47pm

Where's the boats??

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factotum commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 10:26pm

“We’re going to win. We’re going to win so much. We’re going to win at trade, we’re going to win at the border. We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning, you’re going to come to me and go ‘Please, please, we can’t win anymore.’ You’ve heard this one. You’ll say ‘Please, Mr. PM, we beg you sir, we don’t want to win anymore. It’s too much. It’s not fair to everybody else.’ And I’m going to say ‘I’m sorry, but we’re going to keep winning, winning, winning, We’re going to make Australia great again.”

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truebluebasher commented Monday, 18 Feb 2019 at 10:27pm

Dutto had his eyes on the Prize
Yellow Peril took him by surprise.
Stranded for days the say.
Until local fishermen said G'day.

Settin' Crabpots...sinking beer
Our Parliament's on strike you hear!
Dutto never had a clue
Where the bloody hell are you!

Update claims the boat was stranded for days during Leadership Strike.
If Bill is next then which of the parliamentary strike action leaders owns this mess?
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/he-s-captured-the-attention-of-v...

Send Boats 4 Votes 'Peoples Reply' to 'Where the Bloody Hell aren't you.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ippYOXR65sQ
***Fellow swellnetonian DJ's please to help load Reply video in the Jukebox.**

Locals patiently wait days for Dutto to get on board.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/daintree-locals-take-vietnamese-migrants-cra...

Local Asylum seekers direct visiting Border Patrol arrivals off their land.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-27/daintree-suspected-illegal-fishin...

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Optimist commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 6:19am

Indo's guess about Christmas island is correct. The Govt has to re open it to checkmate Labors interference with the medivac bill. Christmas island is in Australia so guess where their so called medical treatment will be. Scott is shitty about wasting money on it and it shows how expensive and wasteful Labor is even when not in power. They would have know Morrison would have to do it, or are they really that dumb they didn't think of it and that all the people would be brought to the mainland. The problem with detention centers is nearly over as most are closed and no kids are in them. Lets let the Govt. finish the job properly and put an end to the whole expensive and stupid issue. The world will know to apply properly and they will be treated fairly. The other thing is you have to fight for what you want in your own country or evil will always prevail there. The general population number of every country is much higher than the war pigs who cause the trouble so fight back and fix your own country up. The whole world just can't keep running to Australia when it can man up and fix it's own messes.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:19am

So you still reckon Jesus would be all for indefinite detention Optimist? I haven't made a study of the Bible but from what I know he seemed pretty keen on helping out the poor and oppressed. Oh and your reasoning is all wrong. Virtually everything go the government does about asylum seekers between now and the election can be explained by one word, FEAR! Their policy, as always, is to create unnecessary fear and division in the community with exaggerated policy responses, bullshit and straight out lies, aided by their reprehensible media mates.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:25am

Oh and as for the world running to Australia, a substantial number of those asylum seekers come from countries we invaded without any justification so we have a direct moral obligation to them

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Blowin commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:34am

.

I focus's picture
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I focus commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 9:28am

What would Jesus do?

What Christians do is never the same such is the cowardice of men.

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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 9:46am

@Optmist Im kind of sceptical they will actually go to Xmas for medical treatment itself, but i guess we well wait and see.

Maybe labor had actually factored in this move (you would expect they would) and hoped it will see the boats start up again and a few slip through and they have to put people back on Manus or Nauru, then this will make liberals not look as successful on this matter, plus all the legal battles and BS that will come from having these people in Oz wont look good either.

Maybe its just a plan to try to bring down the success of liberals on this matter before the election?

Kind of a risk though for labor stirring this issue up in an election year, it could really play into the hands of the liberals and gives them a chance to get re-elected when most would expect Labor will get in, even recent polls have now shown support for liberals.

Personally i think i will vote liberal for the first time on this issue, if labor get in i wont care either, but my aim will be to at least try to send a message to labor.

(I would otherwise just leave by ballot blank)

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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Optimist commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 9:50am

BB they are looking after the poor and oppressed and the last detention centres are nearly empty. The dodgy ones that cant be sorted at this point even though they have had opportunity to be resettled are the only ones left.

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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 10:21am

"Oh and as for the world running to Australia, a substantial number of those asylum seekers come from countries we invaded without any justification so we have a direct moral obligation to them"

Yep and thats what offshore resettlement programs are for, providing a fair and equal system for all refugees with the ability to give priority to those most in need and the ability to resettle people from a variety of countries.

End of the day our refugee resettlement quota doest change.

What you want is to take away the chance of a new life from these people (often the most vulnerable and needy) and give it to a lucky minority based on the fact they are lucky enough to have the resources to by-pass the systems we have in place.

It's like robin hood but in reverse.

Only one system works for permanent resettlement a fair and equal system for all.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 10:34am

So Indo, we go to their country to support the domestic ambitions of a US President, bomb the crap out of it, destroy any remnant of civil society, directly contribute to the deaths of literally millions of children across the region, create massive refugee flows into neighbouring countries ....... but NO NO NO, we will decide who comes into OUR country because, well we are so special, we shouldn't have to clean up after our own mess and anyway they are all poor and sort of brown and they're Muslim, so it doesn't really matter because they're not really human, not like us. THAT is the reality of Australia's asylum seeker policy, you can hide behind the repulsive rhetoric if you like but you know the truth. You just can't admit it, not even to yourself.

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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 11:24am

So what would you like?

Just to say yeah okay if you get here we will process you and let you in?

Even you must admit it's not realistic, its a numbers game no matter your intentions you will always have much more people wanting a new life than what can be provided and unless uncapped you will always get a back log.

And please don't even go there (quoting previous arrivals numbers, its totally subject to policy which also sets people smuggling prices too)

The issues is about who gets the right to be processed, how do we decide this?

Should everyone be treated equally and fairly and if any priority is given then its given to the most needy?

Or do you give priority based on resources people have?

If it comes down to resources and letting people smugglers decide who comes, as crazy as it is, you might as well just auction our refugee quota on Ebay.

BTW. Maybe the irony is lost on you trying to bring skin colour into things, but if we only accepted boat arrivals it would actually greatly favour people from countries with higher incomes like Syria and Iran with olives/brown skin and it would actually disadvantage people with much darker from countries with very low average incomes like Sudan and Somalia. (so I'm assuming the racist out there would prefer those with lighter skin than very dark?)

Personally i think people like you need to really think much more about this topic and think exactly what you want or are supporting, your view is in no way fair or caring, its actually the complete opposite.

The root of the problem is almost all Australians cant understand the reality outside of their western bubble, we are all privileged we just assume that every refugee has the same ability to travel and pay people smugglers, or even get a tourist visa and arrive by plane and seek TEMPORARY protection.

The reality is millions can not afford to do this, there only hope of a new life is through offshore resettlement programs, that would be destroyed under the system you want/support.

Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.

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truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 11:32am

2014-2019 'Boating deaths in Australian Territorial Waters' (5yr average)

Australian Boaties Deaths = [350] ( PM Turnbull: 'What's a life Jacket?' )
Boat people Deaths = [Zero] ( PM Promos' priority #1 Election policy )

PM 1('Why give two hoots about Aussies up shit creek without a paddle')

PM 2( 'I really couldn't give a rats ass about Aussie Kidz goin' overboard')
PM 2 : If you're not on the Electoral Role we can't save you! Simple as that!

Note! Drowning Aussies can't vote!
[VOTE 4 QUIDS]

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sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 1:40pm

"If it comes down to resources and letting people smugglers decide who comes, as crazy as it is, you might as well just auction our refugee quota on Ebay."

Now there's an idea!

May as well make some coin out of it, rather than spending billions playing the ideological tit for tat game like we do now. A game where billions of dollars are benefitting but a few thousand people at best.

"The root of the problem is almost all Australians cant understand the reality outside of their western bubble, we are all privileged we just assume that every refugee has the same ability to travel and pay people smugglers, or even get a tourist visa and arrive by plane and seek TEMPORARY protection.

The reality is millions can not afford to do this, there only hope of a new life is through offshore resettlement programs, that would be destroyed under the system you want/support."

The system is being destroyed as we speak by the overly zealous. Whilst activist types may feel they are fighting the unspeakable evil, they're actually undermining the public's waning confidence in the whole system.

I had an argument with a geoligist the other day regarding a nuclear waste dump in SA. He loved the idea, sprouting the usual elitist bullshit, ie. Jay weatheral should have just listened to the experts and gone ahead with it, rather than consulting the public. Because, jay weatheral consulted the public, and the public said NO!

After a heated but civil exchange, the geologist conceded that without some sort of 'public license', you've actually got nothing. And, no amount of experts will change that.

I see parallels with the refugee debate. Whilst the experts may feel they're currently winning the day to day battle, I can tell them with confidence they aren't winning the big picture battle.

Which is the 'public license'. The confidence of the people in the system. The system is broken, and until advocates can answer some of the questions indod politely patiently raises, that public confidence ain't coming back anytime soon.

The fact advocates will not even engage in a conversation about numbers and methods does them no favours. One can only conclude they're not good with numbers (as the new socialist poster child cortez demonstrates on a daily basis). Or, their ideological position is for open borders and no negotiations will be entered into.

Constantly bagging indod's very reasonable position does no one any favours.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 11:58am

And yes the plane versus boat arrivals argument is so dumb it's almost irrelevant

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 12:05pm

Indo, our immediate responsibility is to those who are already in our care in Manus and Nauru. Given, as Turnbull stated when organising resettlement in the US, that we know exactly who they are, then we can process them accordingly with the vast majority being given resident status. If there are concerns about previous criminality these can be addressed. The only purpose they have served is to discourage boat arrivals. This is unacceptable and is part of our long term efforts to avoid our responsibilities. We need to take a lot more asylum seekers. If, as in the present situation, people are trapped living in poverty on the streets of Indonesia with no hope in the forseeable future of being resettled through formal processes, then they will try whatever else is available to them. It is worth considering by those who believe detention on Nauru and Manus to be humane and reasonable, that none of the asylum seekers recently interviewed living on the street in Indonesia were prepared to risk indefinite detention in those places. Notions of fairness are a luxury asylum seekers cannot afford and the idea of a queue is ludicrous. The processes are complex, slow and have not delivered for large numbers of people in desperate circumstances.

We are extremely fortunate to have a responsible and cooperative partner in Indonesia. Consider how easily they could have solved their refugee problem by ignoring or encouraging people smugglers. Australia would then have had a major problem. In the circumstances we should be actively trying to resettle large numbers from Indonesia. I think it would be possible if we did that to negotiate a deal with Indonesia under which boats were simply returned to Indonesia. No we cannot take them all but we can take enough that people there would have hope of resettlement in a reasonable time frame. We have had migrant hostels before around our major cities. I think we should consider it again. Given the extent of our immigration program, we could easily replace the economic migrants we take so enthusiastically with asylum seekers.

In terms of skin colour and racism you might like to consider the cartoon published last week in the Daily Telegraph showing white women being attacked by caricatures of Muslim men. This is almost an exact copy of cartoons published in the 1930s in Germany with Muslims replacing Jews. What was the response to this? Was it condemned in Parliament? Not to my knowledge? Was there a public outcry about such offensive material? If so I didn't hear it. Have sales if the Daily Telegraph fallen dramatically? I doubt it. So I have no problem saying that Australia is just as racist now as it has always been and this is reflected in our treatment of asylum seekers.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 12:30pm

"And yes the plane versus boat arrivals argument is so dumb it's almost irrelevant"

I can only assume that you, like Indo, aren't smart enough to follow it then.

So, one more time....'boat people' is an utter non-issue in the running of a country. It's superficial, pissant pulp from over the sidelines compared to the issues that matter in our lives. However, it is an 'election issue' because dumb and gullible people can be energised by it and persudaded to change their votes at the expense of the environment, banking, energy, unchecked neo-liberalism, immigration...you know, the issues that matter.

Proof of this...?

For four years, 'plane people' who've been granted asylum have outnumbered boat people, it's been called "Australia's most pressing border issue", and yet it's appeared nowhere in the media nor mentioned by the Liberal Party. Why is that?

Go on, make some shit up, prevaricate, ignore the fact that you too have been hoodwinked by them.

They're laughing all the way to the front page as the country goes down the shitter.

And you all think you're media savvy, eh?

https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/air-arrivals-are-australias-most-pressing-border-security-challenge/

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 1:34pm

I haven't been hoodwinked, I think it should be front page news, the plane arrival thing that is. I don't care how they arrive, it's the queue jumping that pisses me off. And the plane people are worse than the boat people. However, it is a dumb argument because the people go by boat for a reason, they have a very different plan to the plane people...so therefore, it's a dumb argument.

But yes, I'll agree, the libs are making serious political mileage out of this...again...But will it work? not so much this time I reckon, their position is just too desperate and ridiculous.

But then again, who put it back on the front pages? Phelps? Labor? liberals?

I do believe it was Labor supporting the Phelps bill. Terrible political timing on their behalf. One might say suicidal.

Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 1:35pm

For me, Stu has hit the nail on the head.
"So, one more time....'boat people' is an utter non-issue in the running of a country. It's superficial, pissant pulp from over the sidelines compared to the issues that matter in our lives. However, it is an 'election issue' because dumb and gullible people can be energised by it and persudaded to change their votes at the expense of the environment, banking, energy, unchecked neo-liberalism, immigration...you know, the issues that matter."

On Media Watch last night it was revealed that the Daily Terrograph had mentioned the issue in it's paper about 21 times over the last week or so, whilst it's big brother scrag mag The Australian has made mention of it 14 times. It's a shit show made for ass wipes.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 1:36pm

Labor wants it to be a boat people election too.

They’re as keen as John Howard in dodging the real immigration questions.

loungelizard's picture
loungelizard's picture
loungelizard commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 1:37pm

dumb, gullible and hoodwinked.. lucky i am too stupid to realise it!
can you tell us again stu how the 1200 deaths at sea "would have died anyway" as per one of your previous posts?
copped a bad rendang? hit the reef at g-land?
i know it doesnt fit your world view that some people might have been genuinely disturbed by the video of that boat smashing off christmas island but there you go.
and "for four years plane people have outnumbered boat people" well, golly, might that have something to do with stopping the boats?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 1:49pm

Yeh sypkan, terrible isn't it when a political party puts decency above political expediency. Still no danger of it happening with the COALition.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:00pm

good on em blindboy, but if it's about decency, then they could have the 'decency' to be honest about what they're up to.

atm, they're being just as deceptive and underhanded as the libs

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:04pm

"can you tell us again stu how the 1200 deaths at sea "would have died anyway" as per one of your previous posts?"

Hazara genocide in Afghanistan, Tamil genocide in Sri Lanka, Uighur genocide in China, and Rohinga genocide in Myanmar.

loungelizard's picture
loungelizard's picture
loungelizard commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:08pm

what a crock, these people have all made it to indonesia

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:10pm

Yeah, they're probably all lying.