What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

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loungelizard's picture
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loungelizard commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:15pm

not saying that, but they have made it to the largest muslim nation on earth. are they being hunted down by the chinese? the taliban got an offshoot in the mentawais picking off refugees?

H2O's picture
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H2O commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:20pm

Hows this for a plan (my wife's solution). Have a deal with the big refugee camps to do a swap whereby we send them every illegal entry , from whatever mode of transport, and they send us an equal (or some greater proportion, say 1 for 2) of genuine refugees who have waited their turn. Thus :
1) the message is, "if you jump the queue you wont get in.
2) don't have to worry about detention or processing as its already established.

H20

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:32pm

@Sypkan

I don't agree on plane arrivals really being queue jumpers, they can only get temporary protection visas which must be reapplied for every 3-5 years if situations change and its safe to go home when reaccessed then they get sent home.

Nobody on Manus or Nauru is after temporary protection, they all want permanent resettlement in a developed country.

It's two different systems.

1. Permanent resettlement which is our refugee quota

2. Temporary protection, which i don't think has a cap?

Australia is actually a lot more generous when you consider we run these two programs, then we also resettle a people through other means that don't come up in stats.

1. Family reunion, obviously the aim of many refugees resettled is to bring family over.

2. Skilled migration, people like doctors etc that would otherwise become refuges are smart they are not going to go through the whole refugee process, much easier to come via skilled migration (love to see some figures on accepted skilled visa applicants from countries refugees flee, to see how much of a factor this could really be)

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:34pm

H20

Ive said the same thing many times, its not actually that dissimilar to the Malaysian solution.

i think it would need to be more like one person from Manus or Nauru for one hundred refuges though.

Possibly give those on Manus and Nauru the choice to resettle in PNG or Cambodia first though, seeing the deals have been paid for.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 3:03pm

@Blindboy

In regard to Indonesia they haven't really helped or hindered, they could do much more and should be restricting entry and deporting any in the country where possible..

But maybe there is a few factors here why they don't

1. As a developing country they have so many other issues to worry about

2. Many are middle east muslim, these people are often quite respected in Indonesia especially if they have visited mecca (cant remember what it is but they wear something to show this)
Some are also quite cashed up so contribute to the economy, although there is also social problems and issues caused by them.

One thing for certain if they weren't mostly muslim, it would be viewed much differently in Indonesia, i doubt even the odd muslim African refugees would be treated the same as middle eastern as Indonesians (no offence to any reading) are much kore racist in views towards very dark skinned people like Africans than we are (ironically my wife has become best friends with an African lady)

Indonesia would never want to encourage more people to get to Australia, to do so would flood them and the backlog of refugees would become much greater once we hit our yearly quotas.

A few years back Australia actually greatly reduced the number of refugees we take from within Indonesia, as a detternt to others, although admittedly it hasn't worked that great.

BTW. I ve seen the odd interview where they say that, I'm guessing they say what they think the interviewer wants to hear, as makes no sense what would you rather?

A. Stuck in Indonesia living off your own funds with a 1 in 100,000 chance or less of being resettled, no work rights, no rights to health care schemes etc

or

B. Being on Manus or Nauru housed in much better conditions, having work rights etc everything paid for and a guarantee of resettlement (even at the very worst PNG and Cambodia are still offers that come with substantial cash payments)

H2O's picture
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H2O commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 2:47pm

Was thinking about a deal for the future in my post.

H20

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 3:14pm

Mate, if I was a Muslim I would honestly take my chances in Indonesia and if they are registered with UNHCR I believe they get about Rp40,000 a day plus as you say they have a cultural connection.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 4:04pm

"But then again, who put it back on the front pages?"

The owner/s of the 'front pages'?

The 'why' ain't much of a stretch either.

Franking credits, negative gearing, and now back to the supposed big gun in the Libs armoury, boat people.

When all they've really got is F.E.A.R* brought to you by the usual media loon pond-scum propaganda units.

Who's buying this crud...again? Ad infinitum. Ad nauseam.

(* False Evidence Appearing Real)

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 4:16pm

Ive got it!...issue all asylum seekers who land in Indonesia surf boards and send them to a surf school. Then put them on some boat trips around the islands...Tell them the surf in Australia isn't as good and it costs $7 for a beer....they will never want to leave then so all sorted...We are all bustin to get there and they are leaving. Its all how you look at it..or perhaps we supply decent size boats for approved and genuine refugees and go pick them up via the Ments. Im sure there would be plenty of free Aussie crewmen. No more sneaky leaky boats.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 5:08pm

Yeh just a joke to you Optimist. Contemptible crap!

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 6:45pm
sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 6:52pm

Yeh I reckon you're right indod re. Planes and temporary protection visas. I still don't like the scamming though.

The refugee swap idea's been floating around a while now, in various forms. It seems many people would be willing to accept more refugees, many more probably, if the system was tightened up somewhat. People are much more reasonable than they are portrayed on here, they're just tired of the rorting.

And yep, indod I reckon the rest is just about right too. Especialky about the middle east dudes in indo, highly respected, they've got the bule and muslim advantage going on. If they've haji'd they wear a white cap thingy, much respect again.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:02pm

Yeh I reckon you're right indod re. Planes and temporary protection visas. the tendency to tpv's is a recent change I think. I still don't like the scamming though.

The refugee swap idea's been floating around a while now, in various forms. It makes sense, and sends a clear message. It seems many people would be willing to accept more refugees, many more probably, if the system was tightened up somewhat. People are much more reasonable than they are portrayed to be on here, they're just tired of the rorting.

And yep, indod I reckon the rest is just about right too. Especialky about the middle east dudes in indo, and the africans unfortunetly. Middle East dudes highly respected, they've got the bule and muslim advantage going on. And If they've sudah haji'd they wear a white cap thingy, much respect again.

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:18pm

Was obvious Indo, the next chess move by the G men.....and BB sorry to be light hearted.... I was just feeling silly......Then she slapped me.

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factotum commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:29pm
truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 7:58pm

Myth #1 Muslim asylum seekers flee to welfare rich western countries.
*They couldn't give a shit about medicare. Least of all Australia.
Most obviously seek haven in nearby Muslim Nations. (Shh!)

Takes all of 5 mins to verify that...(end...2015 World immigration chart)
Pauline will no doubt convince idiot brains of record Muslim Oz invasion.

Country of Exodus .......Country of Asylum
#1 Syria 4.9m.................Turkey 2.5m/Lebanon 1.1m/Jordan+Germany .6m
#2 Afghanistan 2.7m...Pakistan 1.6m/Iran 1m
#3 Somalia 1.1m...........Kenya .4m/Yemen.3m/Ethiopia.25m
#4 South Sudan.8m.....Ethiopia .25m/Sudan.2m/Uganda.2m
#5 Sudan.6m..................Chad .3m/South Sudan .2m

Australia is not even a blimp on the radar!

[factcheck]
Record exodus of Aussies are escaping from Duttoland
It seems our flock is now a marauding menace plaguing the free world.
UK/Europe are not keen on more Aussies vomiting over their villages.

(Q4 2017)
Immigration to Australia...120,000 > Govt Reduces >100,000(2017-18)
Exodus from Australia..........80,000 > Numbers increase by (10,000 Q4)
School kidz know that class nerds are posted o/s...(Don't shock Mum!)

Chart shows Q4 2020 > (Exodus is soon to outnumber Immigration)
Dutto's scare factor is working too well.
As said above it's now us Aussies drowning in droves on boats
tbb can't track back to a time when Downunder was Back to Front.

[Govt Flip Flop AD- 2020]
[Boat People wanted to push 5m Oz wheelchairs] (Free food & board)
[ BAN OZ EXODUS ] Re-elect Dutto [ VOTE 4 MORE BOATS ]

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sypkan commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 8:27pm

Wow those headlines were pretty bad. Not your normal bad headline bad, but not healthy bad.

Schlock journalism to the extreme.

So glad that's not part of my world. Sometimes media bubbles are good

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 9:00pm

Essential viewing Facto, good one.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 9:08pm

At seemingly any opportunity , people like to throw out the line that “ Australia is the laughing stock of the international community “.

Well , next time anyone tries that old chestnut on you , remind them of situations such as this :https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/19/a-free-pass-for-mobs-to-ki...

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 9:48pm

I watched a good docco on that issue Blowin, i will try to find it.

Here it is, worth a watch

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Friday, 22 Feb 2019 at 12:36am

"So glad that's not part of my world. Sometimes media bubbles are good."

But it is part of your world. That's the insidious nature of a media landscape that has been skewed for decades. Especially in this country. Propagenda. Constantly feeding the unconscious...public as well as private.

Education (not just formal) can skewer it. Critical reading and thinking.

The 4th estate should be speaking truth to institutional/traditional/entrenched power. It's a good litmus test to start off with.

Another?

To paraphrase Jean-Luc Godard, "behind every image, we must ask who speaks."

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 11:07pm

All Pollies agreed to send Manus & Nauru patients to Xmas Island.
Only none bothered to check if they have or will have Medivac Facilities.

Christmas Island has no Maternity/Surgery/Limb setting/Psychiatrics
All local patients & visitors are flown out to Perth at Govt expense.
There are no known plans to increase basic GP services on the Island.

All pollies must know this! (Obviously the 1st & only thing you'd check!)
All Nauru/Manus patients will arrive only to fly out to Perth. (Here! Here!)
Dumb Deal absolutely positively guarantees all refugees must enter Oz.

'Hello World' Medivac to L.A./ Tokyo / Alaska is shorter/faster & free.

Here we are with all sides agreeing on dumbest of all Boat People Plans.
So people vote for these idiots! Imagine if they mistakenly got elected.

Next to no one on Christmas Island wishes to end tourism for (Boats II)
Security warn Scomo! Xmas Island 'Boat Inn' Neon Sign attracts boats!'

In the wash up!
Scomo backdoors refugees to Perth & dusts off Xmas Island Servo Sign.
So none of this attracts the Boats and it's all some other guys fault! WTF

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Tuesday, 19 Feb 2019 at 11:23pm

TBB, ipso facto, watch the house prices in my town sky-rocket!!!!

According to some.

Hahahahaha!!!!

FFS!!!!

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 7:26am

'African Beach Bullies kicked PFAS in my face at Melbourne wavepool.'
This calls for a pack' of factotum's flesh eating wavepool Monkeys...(TISM)

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 8:09am

@True Blue Basher

I guess the reality is these people aren't actually physically sick so its kind of irrelevant what facilities are there.

All you technically need is an Aussie doctor on Aussie soil, in the rare circumstance where they are actually sick and need medical care that can't be provided on Manus or Nauru I'm sure they will actually get treated elsewhere.

Brave move by the libs and one i respect, it makes a complete mockery of the situation.

Sypkan summed it up perfectly the other day, its all about gaming the system.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 8:13am
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indo-dreaming commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 8:25am

BTW in regard to your other post.

True and not true, blue basher.

Yes most refugees no matter religion seek temporary protection (not permanent resettlement) in nearby countries, yeah sure in general they try to go to similar cultures and religions.

But it's more about two things.

1. Most refugees aim is to return home and rebuild their life's when safe to do so, it doesn't make sense to travel too far when your aim is to return home..

2. Most refugees come from developing countries, even if they wanted too they don't have the resources to travel great distances or pay people smugglers etc.

Now thats all good, but there is over 65 million displaced people in the world, (possible a few million more toughing it out because lack of better options) even with most of those falling into the category of wanting to return home or not having resources to travel further, there is still millions that would love a life in a developed country like Australia and still millions with the ability to get too our doorstep.

Im not suggesting millions would turn up on our door step, but for most who seek permeant resettlement and a new life (and not temporary protection), developed countries are very attractive option and there isn't that many.

If you want proof of this just look at the fact over 99% of refugees and Manus and Nauru rejected resettlement options in Cambodia and PNG and these packages came with something like a 30K cash sum to help get set up, in many countries including PNG or Cambodia 30K will buy you a decent house or even two or three.

When you have policy like boat turn backs that deter the pull factor is not there, spending 5-10K only to end up in Indonesia again is kind of pointless. (so you can thank our governments and policy for keeping us off the radar)

However we saw under Rudd how quickly things can change with change of policy in one year we had about 17K people arrive by boat or about 30K in less than two years.

He then did a complete 360 back flip on policy reopening Manus and Nauru and stating no person who arrives by boat will ever be resettled in Australia.

Politicians don't do complete backups and 360 changes on policy without good reason, reality is the test has been done it was a clear fail.

And he had no choice to do a backflip for three reasons.

1. He had to choose between letting them into Australia or shutting down offshore resettlement programs.

2. It would be a huge risk to leave things as, the likely hood is much much more likely numbers would continue to increase rather than decrease, and nobody knows the numbers things could increase too, but the supply is definitely there.

3. Other risk like quarantine breach increased greatly as numbers increased.

So anyone who suggest that this is not an issue and purely scaremongering etc, well its purely not true, the experiment has been done it was a fail.

At the very least the numbers are big enough to destroy offshore resettlement programs, which has always been the basis to my argument of the importance of this issue.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 9:42am

So Indo what happened to the bloke who died from blood poisoning when all he needed was an antibiotic drip? And of course, mental health problems can end up being physically damaging through suicide and self harm. Your assurances would seem to be based on wilful ignorance at this stage of the discussion.

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factotum commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 10:47am

Succinct and easy to read & understand article above there, Freeride 76.

Keep finding and putting them out there, people. Become the media!

I think this one sales product of the Lib fear factory has been put back on the shelf, somewhat. But stay attuned.

Negative gearing too, somewhat.

PM ProMo and his media enablers are going full retail on the boat people.

Who's buying?

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factotum commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 9:53am

A comment below the line from the Freeride 76 article above:

I am a retired Commonwealth public servant with a PSS pension and a self managed superannuation fund. My taxable income is about $20,000 so I pay a tiny amount of Medicare levy but no income tax. However, my REAL income in retirement is almost $80,000. How? Well - I am over 60 so half of my PSS pension is tax free, as is ALL of the pension I draw from my SMSF. My super fund (which also pays no income tax because it is in pension mode) has been receiving imputation credit refunds for some time now. Very nice thank you. However, I FULLY SUPPORT Labor's plan to abolish imputation credit refunds. When Howard and Costello brought in imputation credit refunds I thought "what a rort for the well off".

Also, this "I am a self funded retiree" garbage annoys me. Many of these so called "self funded retirees" will have been either salary sacrificing vast amounts into superannuation or claiming huge deductions for their private company for superannuation contributions, and reducing their effective tax rate to 15%, which itself is huge subsidy from the government. The income of their superannuation funds in accumulation phase is only taxed at 15%, capital gains only at 10%, and when they take a pension from their SMSF at 55 the income of their SMSF becomes tax free and any pension they draw comes with a 15% tax offset and THEN....when they turn 60....it is ALL tax free. Self funded? Bullshit!!!!

When I was working back in the mid 2000's, I milked Howard and Costello's largesse big time. In 2002 we had a decent inheritance, and with that spare money I was able to salary sacrifice 50% of my salary into superannuation, thereby effectively reducing my tax rate from 40% to 15%, and THEN that enabled me to claim up to $9,000 a year in Family Tax Benefit for our two teenage sons on the basis that I was a low income earner. What a joke. However, according to all these whinging retirees, I am "self funded". Yeah sure. - AussieGeordie.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 10:08am

Beware the man who's very good @ research...

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 10:43am

Hahahaha! Liam Neeson meets John Barnes.

lostdoggy's picture
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lostdoggy commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 10:41am

My research suggests that Stu's shot is taken on the corner of Renwick and Redfern with the camera aimed approximately West North West.

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lostdoggy commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 10:49am

The dude in the red hat is in a full skating pose but on further inspection he's not skating at all.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 11:35am

That’s heavy , Freeride.

Would not have suspected it was worth $5B per annum. As a footnote, all trusts should be banned.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 11:38am

Not a fan of that graffiti at all. Drifting way too close to the ridiculous political divisions facing the USA. Australia doesn’t need political violence or any extremes in social polarity.

I’d guessed Redfern though. No one can threaten like someone who’s greatest existential threat is crossing the road whilst staring at their iPhone.

lostdoggy's picture
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lostdoggy commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 11:52am

The photo was taken pre-iPhone.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 11:58am

In that case substitute : Crossing the road reading their Lonely Planet guide to Indigenous tours of Nepal whilst listening to Enya on their Walkman.

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Blowin commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 12:22pm
truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 12:58pm

Aussies with crook backs get cured after 5 years in Nauru Chook Pens?
Zero cost medicare if only Aussies would take up the 5yr Nauru challenge?

Building firms & farmers masterbating over elite 'No sickie' Reffo crews.
This missing link illegal alien master race sounds too good to be true.

So without medicare the Boat People are 100% ship shaped ?
LNP secret experimental guinea pigs finally found a cure for medicare!

Thanks for sharing indo...can only hope & pray we're next!
Aussies are dying to get into these Reffo cure all health spas!

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 1:47pm

Liam & Barnesy indeed!

And an old fave:

And while we're in meme-land, feel the Bern!

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 1:53pm

After reading FR76'spost , it's pretty obvious that the baby boomer generation have been the greatest parasites of any generation since ...well ever....world debt going thru the roof, a degraded planet that has been raped and pillaged by them ,or shit I should say "us"!

x

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 2:09pm

Re Bernie getting on his running shoes. It might have been posted somewhere else here but if you missed it, https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/yes-bernie-shoul...

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 2:55pm

Why do you keep referencing that soccer player ?

I focus's picture
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I focus commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 3:33pm

FR76 is onto us.............still tax rebate on tax free income for wealthy self funded retirees (note no longer self funded after rebate for nothing) is a stretch.

I didn't know it existed until Labor raised its policy to close off.

I am sure the COALlition will be able to spin it as stealing money from the poor and a sure way of inciting further boat arrivals.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 4:15pm

"Retirees’ donations to charities and Christmas gift giving were under threat, says Scott Morrison, as he slammed Labor’s “blatant tax grab”."

As always, The Australian leads the charge.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 4:28pm

An anonymous quote:

"At least we now know why the LNP hate refugees on boats so much.
Obviously none of them are booking through HELLO WORLD!"

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 4:49pm

Hello World!

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 5:20pm

Vote Labor if you want to as it is your right to do so, But soon after the country will be broke again as nobody in Labor knows how to run a business let alone a country. Shorten was the union leader and power broker that made and unmade Rudd and Gillard. He decided it was his turn to be king. That means we will be broke too and paying more in tax. Also remember that your children and grandchildren's new federal education ministers name will be Jihad...Yep that's right , his parents named him after the "Struggle" for world Islamic community dominance or the "Ummah". You may not like everything about the Liberal /National party, but at least they are stable with the economy and good at planning. I would like them to get with the program on climate and I'm sure they will very soon due to our pressure and will have the cash to do it and not just talk about it. Even if you don't believe in climate change having the pumped hydro systems the libs are planning as well as other forms and putting the trees back on the land to produce more rain is just being tidy.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 20 Feb 2019 at 5:22pm

"Also remember that your children and grandchildren's new federal education ministers name will be Jihad...Yep that's right , his parents named him after the "Struggle" for world Islamic community dominance or the "Ummah". "

You can't be serious, mate.