AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.
LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.
And Seppo just plucking numbers out of your arse? Why? For the feels?
Who you wanna be down with homeboy?
I feel sorry for the genuine refugees sitting in UN camps in Indonesia. They are the genuine ones, they have all their papers, most have no money, they wont pay a people smuggler as they know its wrong and they wont destroy their papers and they are waiting their turn as they should to be processed and are set back because of queue jumpers. The reason it takes so long to process boat people is they are too hard to identify due to destroying their I.D. history and some of that history is the reason the last of them are still sitting in our last detention centres. Now thanks to labor , they can bung on an act and get a medivac here and finally win even though they are the ones that least deserve to. Islamic refugees from Islamic countries is a bit of a joke. Time to sort out their own mess and deal with it themselves. Concentrate on people who are genuinely fleeing from Islamists and other aggressive cultures instead. Most have been robbed of their wealth and are under constant persecution and threat. They want to come here because they have to, not just to have a creamy life because their relatives are already here talking it up. The system we have is a good one and is working. The UN camps in Indonesia and other places get priority over the boats and so they should. I'm voting for the Libs because they are doing a good job with the economy so we won't end up poor and they also treat refugees fairly and in an orderly manner as they should.
Ah yes the Christian charity approach to refugee justice! Concentration camps for daring to enter Australian waters without permission. Yes we are completely fair to those good reffos prepared to put their lives on hold while we sort out the paperwork. But those bad ones, well they crucified Jesus so that's good enough for them. Christianity, someone should give it a go sometime 'cos Jesus wouldn't fuckin' recognise the creeps and parasites using his name at the moment. Something about that in Revelation isn't there Optimist? Maybe time for a look in the mirror, hypocrite!
To be fair and i don't like to defend Christians, but it really shits me when people ignorantly spin lines like Blind boy above.
The Christian thing to do would provide temporary protection, house and feed provide education and medical services etc
Um wait a minute..oh shit.
The un christian thing to do would be to just turn people away.
But hey we hear little whinging about boat turn backs?
I guess also the most Christian thing to do would be to treat refugees fairly and equally and not give priority based on resources they have but give priority based on need or provide a level playing field like a lottery type system, like we do through offshore resettlement programs and to be fair in recent years we have resettled more refugee than ever before.
Jesus wept...where's the Rapture when you need it?
That was classic !
Now you should also put up some piss takes of The Dreaming and the rainbow serpent just to show how ridiculous you think all religion is , not just the ones that it’s socially acceptable to mock.
Don’t stop now , you’re on a roll .
If someone knocks on my door and asks to stay I'm happy to oblige. I'll also give them a feed and even some cash to send them on their way if they are broke. That's the Christian thing to do and I have done it many times. But...first I'm going to ask for their story...I'm going to figure out who they are and if they are genuine, otherwise I'm risking the safety of my family. I have had a few who were a risk and had to say sorry and recommend another solution for them. Australia is no different, we should help everyone who is genuine but Australia is not a fools paradise and should not be treated as such by people who mean well but put their country at risk. Open doors is a recipe for disaster. I'm sure God would want us to be wise and generous as I think most Aussies are.
Barnes strikes again, hey Moey?
You think it’s racist to hold all religions to the same light ?
Pretty much sums up the “ critical thinking “ you like to say is so desperately missing in others.
Not particularly keen to wade into this debate... but... this is worth a read.
"In 2017/2018, 27,931 asylum seekers came by air and claimed protection visas.
That compares with 18,365 asylum seekers who came by boat in 2012/2013 at the peak of the inflow in the Gillard/Rudd years."
Also, while most boat people satisfy the Convention as legit refugees, only 2% of the 27,000 who came by air meet the same standard.
Therefore, they're economic refugees and have to be flown home at our expense, contributing nothing to our economy through tax etc.
You sound like Scott Morrisson. Most don't dispose of their documents.
"Most asylum seekers arrive with birth certificates, drivers licences, school certificates, letters from local priests, photocopies of identity cards, etc, however they are officially classified as “undocumented” if they can’t produce reputable state-issued photo identification upon arrival. The other forms of ID are used to help identify them and process their claims at a later stage."
With respect to your last post Blowin, and with respect to yourself, you've said more about refugees then anyone I can think of on this site. It doesn't sound like it's media driven, more ideological.
So what's your point?
That Australian authorities are getting it wrong when they assess boat people using the documents they have. Which, as stated above, may not include a passport but many other correct forms of ID.
Nearly 100% of boat people get assessed as genuine, compared to just 2% of 'plane people'.
Big margin of error.
Heads up: I'm out.
The argument is idiotic fodder best served on A Current Affair, a sideshow to the running of a country so I'll take my own advice and exit.
Losing a vote in Parliament is a huge humiliation for a government as it speaks, not only of poor policy, but also of incompetence in the core business of legislating. Most governments have the decency to resign following such defeats, but the Morrison government is determined to press on, if only to extend the period of his Prime Ministership so that, unlikely as it may be, it appears as more than a minor footnote in future political histories.
In most circumstances that would be the worst of it, but Morrison, with the supreme egotistic arrogance that only ever arises amongst those convinced they have some kind of internal hotline to heaven and therefore whatever pops into their head does so with a sense of infallibility beyond anything a pope would claim, has managed to further humiliate himself and his government. Be clear on this, history will recall the behaviour of this government over his issue as amongst the most reprehensible in our long history of reprehensible behaviour by our national government.
The most serious charge against them is not so much that they have misrepresented the legislation to the public, but that they have unleashed a racism as crude as anything from 1930s Germany in the media owned by their toxic fellow traveller to the depths, Rupert Murdoch. The recent cartoon in Sydney's Daily Telegraph merely substituted caricatures of Muslims for caricatures of Jews. This is not merely a toxic strain of racism, it is pure fascism; to use a slavish press to support and encourage prejudice and increase irrational fears in the community is a hallmark of such regimes.
The upcoming election is by far the most important in our recent history. The differences between Labor and the Coalition are stark and profound. Labor is committed to reducing inequality and increasing unity. The Coalition are slaves not just to the big end of town but to that percentage of the electorate who are racist. They have courted this vote since Howard's time and need them more than ever in an election in which they face the prospect of annihilation. They have shown that they will go as low as necessary in their attempt to cling to power. They seek to divide, to draw distinctions between any available "them" and "us" .
It is on that last word that much rests. If that "us" is prepared to accept the racist and fascist elements within the government through fear or greed, and put them back in power, then we will be living in a different country. One were the fair go will be long gone and Jack will be told in no uncertain terms that he not the equal of his master, but just cheap, convenient labour to be disposed of on a whim.
Too many look only to the past in their attempts to predict the future and so miss the movements of the present day. The wealthy have never been more powerful. Their links, down to the criminal world and up into governments, have never been stronger. They have no intention of giving that up and constantly seek to strengthen their position. Australia is ripe for their picking and Morrison, knowingly or not, is their man because division is their stock in trade.
"Morrison, with the supreme egotistic arrogance that only ever arises amongst those convinced they have some kind of internal hotline to heaven and therefore whatever pops into their head does so with a sense of infallibility beyond anything a pope would claim,.."
Spot on blindboy.
People moan about the the ALP (fair enough) but the COALition set a new standard for lowering the bar.
It (the LNP) is fertilised by the combined manures of neoliberalism, nationalism, ignorance, incompetence and utter disregard for the fate of those who differ in any way from the prescribed white, heterosexual paradigm of Western civilisation.
*failure to act on climate change;
*the ongoing persecution of refugees;
*the destruction of the NBN;
*a million dead fish;
*draconian surveillance legislation;
*towns without water;
*withdrawal of funding from frontline agencies that offer protection to women and children fleeing violence;
*the torment that Centrelink has become;
*the rise and rise of the far right-wing;
*nurtured politicians whose goal is to incite discontent and xenophobia;
contempt for concepts such as truth, morality and ethics — replaced by religiosity and ideology; hypocrisy in personal lives, masked by the propaganda of “family values” and “traditional marriage”;
*a destructive focus on internal disunity and power struggles at the expense of good governance; and
lies, lies and more lies.
Better economic managers? Ha, debt has doubled since the so-called 'adults' have come to power.
Refugees that arrive by boat generally get rid of ID documents because doing so gives them an advantage if their claims are no genuine or borderline, it's almost impossible to determine if they are genuine, you have very little to go on, except appearance, languages spoken etc
Basically it is innocent (Refugee) unless proven guilty (not a refugee) because otherwise we would be rejecting and sending people back that we might have got wrong, if you don't have the evidence to prove they are not genuine..they get in.
Meanwhile refugees who are 100% genuine don't get rid of ID documents because it actually helps their case.
An example one of the largest groups of refugees on Manus and Nauru are people from Iran, although refugees can come from Iran like certain persecuted groups, Iran is actually a country where refugees flee too hosting one of highest numbers of refugees seeking temporary protection in the world.
It is no coincidence that of all the Iran refugees accessed by USA for resettlement only a small, percentage were accepted from memory 30% most from Manus almost all from Nauru were rejected, USA assessment can do this because they don't have to take responsibility of risk of getting assessment wrong and sending people back into danger and then it coming back to bite them politically.
BTW. The old classic of comparing people and numbers who arrive by plane and seek temporary protection and comparing those who arrive by boat, makes no sense at all and its just a distraction used to distract from the real issues.
The problem we have with boat arrivals you could write a book on, but basically you can call it uncontrolled migration, you cant control who comes in or in what numbers with no caps, it goes against every reason we have official entry points, customs, quarantine, immigration and those people are after permanent residency...they are not interested in temporary protection (what they are currently receiving)
And it takes spots from our offshore resettlement programs if they were resettled.
Those who arrive by plane, first must have a visa to enter Australia before they can apply for a temporary protection visa.
They have passed some security checks, quarantine checks, customs and any other assessments.
Once they apply for temporary protection they either get accepted which as noted is rare or deported, or they do a runner and disappear into the community and become a visa overstay stat, which yeah is a problem but they are not let in easily, tens of thousands would be rejected every year.
Oh and those provided temporary protection don't take a spot away from a refugee resettlement quota, so it's a very silly comparison that makes not sense, I'm guessing their point is those that arrive by boat are genuine and those that arrive by plane are not genuine?
It's not a very good argument and makes no sense, the high rejection rates for those arriving by plane seeking temporary protection actually points more towards the rates of rejection of those who arrive by boat is too low and that many many more should be found non genuine. (see first post above and it makes more sense) but off course rejection is much easier when you have all the facts to deal with.
Against my better judgement...
Indo, don't tell me it's a good argument or a bad argument when it's all a bad argument, the whole damn thing. A monumental waste of time and a very deliberate orchestration by the Coalition to distract you, me, everyone, from the fact they are failing at running our country.
Even at it's very worst, which was 20,000 boat people a year, it is completely inconsequential to our lives.
If the argument is you don't want immigrants...well, we take ten times that amount a year, every year, via legal means. So maybe transfer your energies there.
For the life of me I cant understand why anyone cares so much. We've got dropping wages, unstable housing, an insatiable elite enabled by a lickspittle coalition, a river system that's failing, the banks are crooks, capitalism has blinked, I could go on and on...yet people give a shit about a worst case scenario of 0.0008 of the national population arriving by boats. Fucken come on!
And the point about plane arrivals isn't a "distraction", it highlights how absurd the boat people thing is. Think about it for just a moment: all we hear about is boat people, boat people, boat people, fear, invasion, anger. Meanwhile, double, triple, sometimes quadruple, the boat arrivals come in by plane and we don't hear a thing.
Does that not illustrate to you how the issue is being manipulated by politicians?
"Uh Oh...Um-Ah!" Stu said ...'Licknipple' I mean...'Lipsplitter' I mean..."Lickspittle"
Definition is actually worse than it sounds...safe to run with "Asslicker" for primetime!
Thanks for the lesson Ed...Class dismissed!
Yeah, yeah, but...Chinese immigration and shit.
Um how on earth can it be a very deliberate orchestration by the Coalition to distract when the only reason the issue is back again is because others have brought the issue back up?
Its only an issue again because of the medical air vac laws change thing, which is a complete an utter scam.
There is no reason whatsoever for the law change.
Nauru has 65 medical workers for under 1000 refugees that's about a ratio of 15 to 1
torture and trauma counsellors
mental health nurses
There are also a number of specialists who visit Nauru to provide specialist health care on a regular and as needs basis, including:
ear nose and throat surgeon
speech and language therapist
infectious disease physician
dentist and dental assistant
There is only about 500 refugees on Manus and you have all kinds of medical services provided similar to Nauru.
So for 1,500 people most of these service would rarely ever be needed, but off course even with all this service and care we have refugees and advocates and corrupt doctors playing politics flying refugees to Australia.
And even if they needed further care or some crazy specialist who fir some reason could not fly out to Manus or Nauru, why cant they just be flown to an international hospital for Manus in Port Morsby or Nauru in the South Pacific or even again Port Morsby is much closer.
Its because just like the Nauru kid thing, its a complete scam.
Im not even going to bother with the rest of your post if you don't understand the importance of the issue by now after all the conversation that's been had, i don't think you ever will, luckily both Labor and Liberals do and like it or not it's not an issue that will ever go away.
Keep digging, Larry
West Of The Lake, spot on. Then again who would argue?
Strap yourself in...
You want to know why BOTH sides of the collusive ALP/LNP duopoly want to distract us ?
Here’s why :
Keep watching for all those who can’t stomach finance talk as all is revealed. Explains everything.
Fact check time
failure to act on climate change; (Will give it a Neutral vote as It really about degrees of acting on climate change, having incentives/rebates for roof top solar and building codes for 5 start plus etc is still acting on climate change, it's all about balance, kind of irrelevant anyway when you have China and India and others building coal fired power stations, it like farting in the wind)
*the ongoing persecution of refugees; (False: Our refugee resettlement quota is at historic highs the last few years, plus we provide temporary protection to those on Manus and Nauru and have provided resettlement options in PNG, Cambodia and about 600 or so have gone to USA)
*the destruction of the NBN; (True: okay fair call, they screwed this up, having worked with fiberoptics year ago, pretty much pointless unless it goes all the way through)
*a million dead fish; (True: but is it a result of current government?)
*rorting politicians; (True: But so are all political parties)
*draconian surveillance legislation; (False: you sound paranoid)
*towns without water; (Don't know, but didn't know politicians control the weather, but we have had a few desal plants built in recent years)
*withdrawal of funding from frontline agencies that offer protection to women and children fleeing violence; (no idea)
*the torment that Centrelink has become; (torment?..WTF..please dude, its easy money always will be, no matter how many little hoops you need to jump)
*the rise and rise of the far right-wing; (where exactly are these far right wing?..i mean even if you want to see one nation as far right (which is kind of debatable), are they on the rise?)
*nurtured politicians whose goal is to incite discontent and xenophobia;
contempt for concepts such as truth, morality and ethics — replaced by religiosity and ideology; hypocrisy in personal lives, masked by the propaganda of “family values” and “traditional marriage”; (kind of a bit of a contraction that post)
*a destructive focus on internal disunity and power struggles at the expense of good governance; and (its called politics both Labor and liberal do this and been pathetic over the last ten years or so)
Que: Factum and his one liner
"West Of The Lake, spot on. "
A deeper hole, Larry.
Um, and Moe, like PM Promo, is anyone with half a brain listening to you anymore?
Well, on here at least.
(cue: the stooges)
(Not the band)
@indo, mate I was just spit balling a few things that came to mind. Never intended to evoke a frame by frame rebuttal to each point but for what its worth I do appreciate your efforts.
As for one liners, give me short sharp and succint (and humorous) over self-righteous babbling bloviation any day.
Its good to see a bit of passion when talking about your country no matter what side your coming from. It means you care, even without getting paid.....That's what they do in parliament, The only difference is they get paid for what we do for free, so really we are just all the same. Such a great country to be able to vote how you like. Good things come out of debate and its important to share your ideas. Write to your local member if you have some good constructive ideas. They will appreciate you caring enough to do so. If I was single I'd like to marry Gladys...shes kinda hot I reckon in a leadery way...Ha.
@Westoflake might not agree with all, but still respect the fact you have an opinion.
Opinions make a much better read than pointless one liners
Meanwhile in the US. The truth gets an airing.
@optimist - good one mate. Haha re Gladys. I can imagine Gladys and Bob Carr would make a lovely bi partisan couple.
@indo - cheers. Opinions are great but sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
@blindboy - I have to wonder how anyone can down vote a video like that. My favourite comment:
"I like him cause he's not afraid to speak his mind" Trump supporter
"I hate her cause she's not afraid to speak her mind." Trump supporter
'The good lord provides 'Olive Oil' with all the man she can handle.
LNP Female Quota warrants LNP MP's to take home a 2nd wife.
Look away now or burn your eyes out!
LNP Broad Church Cosy Corner.
Promo's killer pick up line...Chix can't resist!
Here's the keys to the Penthouse..."Is it OK if my wing man joins in!"
Gladys: "Nothing Suss here...reminds me of that nice Mr Tostee's apartment!"
Coordinating our response to drought and working together to bust congestion in our cities were just some of the items discussed with NSW Premier @GladysB today. pic.twitter.com/RHdFoWwz8s— Scott Morrison (@ScottMorrisonMP) September 3, 2018
Coordinating our response to drought and working together to bust congestion in our cities were just some of the items discussed with NSW Premier @GladysB today. pic.twitter.com/RHdFoWwz8s
Happy Valentines for yesterday Mister PM Sir!
Ha ha. A picture paints a thousand words, TBB. Popeye & Olive!
Cold showers, self-flagellation, and hours of soul searching chat with the big fella upstairs for our PM ProMo, methinks.
Indo's post earlier about medical conditions on Manus and Nauru was so misleading as to be a simple lie. Some quotes from those who know how it really works.
Addressing the 38th Session of the United Nations Human Rights Council on July 2, Daniel Webb of the Human Rights Law Centre said this: “The denial of essential medical care has become the latest political tactic used against the refugees indefinitely imprisoned on Manus and Nauru.” He described the denial of care as a deliberate plan by cynical politicians to “harm refugees for their own political ends” as a form of “brutal and deeply cynical politics.”
……patients receiving health care on Nauru are subjected to a healthcare system beset by inbuilt inefficiencies, poor governance and quality processes and obstruction to care, which leads directly to delays, in some instances for years, in care.”
…..”refugees requiring any sort of hospital care or specialist opinion are referred by the IHMS health clinic to the hospital. As stated previously, this hospital is part of a health system that requires constant support from the Australian Government.”
“…The general practitioner in the IHMS clinic who assesses that a patient requires more specialist intervention must refer to a specialist within the hospital system, as would be the case in the Australian healthcare system. But the difference begins at this point. While the doctors can refer, there is no guarantee the request will be acknowledged, understood or actioned in a way acceptable to medical standards in Australia. From his experience working with IHMS on Nauru, Dr Nick Martin—an experienced general practitioner and Senior Medical Officer on Nauru from November, 2016 to August 2017—estimates it takes four to six referrals before such requests are even acknowledged, then only one in four of those will be answered with a plan for medical follow up.”
The complete document is here.
Our contemptible government and their media enablers are now in business of dispensing bullshit at levels toxic to reasonable debate. There is a war brewing in Australian politics unlike anything seen in my lifetime. Make sure you are on the side of the future ...... not the past.
Like fuck, both sides are on board for the neo liberal wealth extraction program and that’s all that matters to the punter in the street.
Don’t fall for the confected conflict. Unless you’re keen to dine on more of the same shit sandwiches the duopoly have been serving up for the last 25 years.
ALP vs LNP = beige vs light brown.
Aaah the Blowfly! Buzzing around irritating people, vomiting stinky opinions all over the place, depositing little eggs of untruth here and there in the hope they will grow into fully fledged lies. Unable to distinguish between up and down and more to the point, right and left. Has lost his colour vision so everything looks the same, bland undifferentiated. And now here comes the man with the can. Don't worry Blowfly, the law of averages suggests that at least one of your assertions in the next decade, based on your current rate of posting, has a good chance of being correct.