The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:53pm

the pictures don't lie

keep cutting down those sources...

if you must

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:06pm
sypkan wrote:

the pictures don't lie

keep cutting down those sources...

if you must

Especially videos.

Or are these guys implying some big conspiracy theory and it's all staged and scripted complete with a large number of extra's including police.

God Avi or Rebel news must be loaded to afford all this, there is literally hundreds maybe thousands of everyday extras in that last video ad then the cost to use the street for the set.

I mean seriously guys the source is pretty much irrelevant its the footage of the crowd and the people speaking, writing off the source in this case just makes you guys like like gooses.

This isn't a written opinion piece or even a heavy edited video.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:08pm

BTW, I picked those videos pretty randomly very quickly, there is plenty more like that on his page, and im sure there is plenty of other YouTube videos confirming the crowds at these rallies.

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:18pm

what a ridiculous article...

"Well, what really seemed to bother the liberal segment of Brand’s fanbase was Brand’s dismissive analysis of “Russiagate,” which, if you remember, reduced reporters to a state of near-hysteria during Trump’s presidency."

not near hysteria.... full blown hysteria... and some haven't yet come down...

still...

"This led to a series of tweets declaring Brand to have been poisoned by the alt-right, and accusing him of catering to a certain crowd."

yeh, because anybody who questions the totally fabricated ridiculousness of russiagate is 'poisoned by the alt. right' and are hanging with the wrong crowd...

or possibly... they just like reality... and call it as they see it...

"Perhaps Brand should be viewed as less of an ideologue and more of an opportunist; perhaps he will dive into the alt-right rabbit hole, eventually, or maybe he’ll just have a bit of a flirt, before reverting back to enlightened centrism.

It all depends on his channel’s metrics, and the whims of YouTube’s algorithm."

perhaps he should also be viewed as someone just calling out bullshit where he sees it

the projecting, gaslighting, and general alternative universe dwelling from certain quarters is just getting off the charts

seriously!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/09/29/the-backlash-again...

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:16pm
GuySmiley wrote:

Isn’t Avi that wife bashing individual you like quoting that VicLocal smacks you down all the time as having zero credibility ?

Paging VL ...

Yes Guy Smiley, that's the one.
He also pretends to get arrested and asks his idiot followers to donate money for non-existent court cases. Fuck, seriously, how stupid would you have to be to think Avi the wife bashing garden gnome grifter has any credibility what-so-ever.

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:21pm

he doesn't need credibility

he gets amongst it and lets the people speak for themselves

which gives at least a glimpse of reality

a novel idea for a media source, yeh I know, but it has its merits

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:28pm

He "earns" his money by going to rallies with a pathetic gotcha attempts on nobodies or portraying fringe nutters as moderates and victims.
Only complete idiots haven't worked out what the wife basher's MO is.
The funny thing is, the cops have worked out what the little shit goblin does. They know he revs up the meatheads, so the cops take him away and dump him 30kms away from the action. They don't arrest him because that gives the wife basher a chance to earn some cash for his "defence fund".
Like I said before, you'd have to have shit for brains to think the wife bashing grifter is credible.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:35pm

Real Rukshan a Sri Lankan guy is also another one that has been live streaming these protest like the Union one so people can see exactly what is happening and make up their own minds.

I dont agree with many of his views the whole anti vax, anti lockdown crap, but it's more about getting an accurate picture of things, instead of a heavily edited news piece that as we know is often extremely misleading.

MSM hate this though as this video shows.

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:51pm

more bullshit

I don't think he's credible, but I also don't watch him...

literally the only times I've watched him is the union thing vid and the nurses protest. both times he showed more than enough footage so that the participants could talk for themselves, very little 'creative' editing, very few loaded questions...

and the result...

the union protest was loaded with union dudes, there was literally no right wing dudes organising it, and the actual union thugs brought the violence upon themselves...

the nurse thing was most interesting, a bit of a non event, but most interesting to hear the nurses talk about why they were there...

which was very similar reasons to the union dudes... and wasn't necessarily 'anti-vax' at all...

but you and your chosen fake news propagandaists painted a very different picture... full of all sorts of false assertions and blame shifting...

pretty much utter bullshit

which is what you do...

carry on...

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:47pm

and, the nurses protest was quite possibly the most ridiculous waste of public resources I have ever seen

how anyone can watch that vid and think certain parts of australia have not totally lost the plot I will never know

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GuySmiley Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:54pm
indo-dreaming wrote:
sypkan wrote:

the pictures don't lie

keep cutting down those sources...

if you must

Especially videos.

Or are these guys implying some big conspiracy theory and it's all staged and scripted complete with a large number of extra's including police.

God Avi or Rebel news must be loaded to afford all this, there is literally hundreds maybe thousands of everyday extras in that last video ad then the cost to use the street for the set.

I mean seriously guys the source is pretty much irrelevant its the footage of the crowd and the people speaking, writing off the source in this case just makes you guys like like gooses.

This isn't a written opinion piece or even a heavy edited video.

.... well actually there was news footage on one of the networks of this cub reporter “randomly cough cough” interviewing “random cough cough” protesters that more closely resembled a Chaser Report comedy sketch so I’ll call that more BS

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 4:55pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Real Rukshan a Sri Lankan guy is also another one that has been live streaming these protest like the Union one so people can see exactly what is happening and make up their own minds.

I dont agree with many of his views the whole anti vax, anti lockdown crap, but it's more about getting an accurate picture of things, instead of a heavily edited news piece that as we know is often extremely misleading.

MSM hate this though as this video shows.

a shameful piece of slur from the abc

you'd really think they would have better things to focus on

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 5:03pm

"it's more about getting an accurate picture of things, instead of a heavily edited news piece"
These two blokes don't give you an accurate picture. They choose what to film and choose what to say. When their fellow travellers are pissing on the shrine, abusig medical professionals, or beating up the cops, they simply point the camera the other way.
ID, live streaming is heavily edited by the person holding the camera.
The wife basher never goes to these rallies to get an accurate picture. He goes to collect footage that will outrage his followers and increase his bank balance. If you think the wife basher gets up in the morning and says to himself "I'm really going to produce a balance story at today's rally even though it will reduce my income", you're an idiot.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 5:42pm

No matter what you think this type of journalism is easily the most transparent and reliable, especially low cut or streamed footage it's very hard to mislead especially when showing so much footage and a decent length video especially when released so quickly, and thats why he has such a big subscriber base and why the Real Rukshan has blown up, because that's what people want these days, they want to be able to see things for themselves from on the ground right in the thick of things and they want to hear the views of the people, not just one but a variety of people.

Even if there was a left leaning journalist doing this, which there doesn't seem to be, id honestly watch so i could compare the two.

In the middle you have the traditional type media presentation, a bit of selective footage often over dubbed with commentary, it's very easy to paint whatever picture or narrative you want with this type of media, especially when short length like a news clip, people know this, we all know MSM are often full of shit.

Then you have the style of journalism Tom tanuki type does, some loser sitting in his bedroom giving his two cents worth on a story or situation with no real experience or knowledge, at best he will borrow someone else's footage or critique someone else's news story, it's worth nothing completely zero, its no better than getting your news from some poster on Swellnet who heard the story from a friend of a friend.

But hey in your mind it's good journalism...

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 5:44pm

Very reliable Kneecapper, it always tells you exactly what you want to hear.

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Vic Local Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 6:12pm

"No matter what you think this type of journalism is easily the most transparent and reliable"
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Were you stupid enough to give him cash for his endless lawsuits that all go so horribly wrong? Fuck me, the little shithead can grift. I s'pose that's what happens when he cultivates a shit for brains audience.
On some occasions he represents himself to save cash on lawyers fees and increase the net profit. Winning or losing a case is irrelevant for the wife basher.

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GuySmiley Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 6:29pm

“No matter what you think this type of journalism is easily the most transparent and reliable, especially ....”. Comedy gold info-cherrypicker

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 6:36pm

.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 7:35pm

Okay smart arses, if you can't be there in person, what's more reliable than live streaming or lengthy uncut or minimal cut footage?

The only more reliable option would be multiple cameras covering multiple angles live streaming and then interviewing everyone there, obviously it's not a realistic option,

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 7:48pm
blindboy wrote:

Andy what do you reckon the percentage on the streets in Australia is? My estimate would be 90% right-wingers inspired by Kelly and the rest of the loons. For the rest, a few crystal healers who would probably have difficulty telling left from right anyway and.......

Yeah 90% right wingers...sure

Actually seems to be mostly women of various ages if anything, lot of older couples even quite a few kids.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 8:13pm

So women can't be right-wingers? Interesting view, a bit sexist and patronising, but original.

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zenagain Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 8:24pm

Dear Indo,

Mate, as a friend that I haven't met yet, do me a favour- put the phone/pc away, grab a beer and another for your lovely wife, grab that cute little daughter of yours and go and have some nice quiet time in that beautiful garden of yours.

The reason I say this is because the people you are arguing with are not interested in your opinion, nor are they interested in exploring anything you may have to say- they are interested in only one thing and that is, winning an unwinnable argument. They post a link in support of their argument that supposedly carries more weight than you could possibly muster but when you dig a little deeper their 'source', their writer, the learned expert and whoever it is that funds them/it will ALWAYS support their biased view and then they will post further links that will always support their biased links as some sort of validation of their skewed world view . Bias is not a bad thing, it lies inside all of us- I happen to like cats but hate pumpkin, but that's how I roll. But that's how they roll too. There is nothing you or anyone else can say that will change them. They see themselves as morally and intellectually superior to you and they take some sort of perverse pleasure in seeing you trip over yourself. Of course a lot of it you bring upon yourself but I really wonder how they would see you face to face when all nuance is lost behind a screen?

I've noticed that when you gain a little traction and present an entirely reasonable point or something that is worth digging a bit deeper, they will shut you down immediately and call you any name under the sun. When you retaliate because you can't express yourself as well as you'd like they sit back in smug condescension and wait for you to do it again. It's a game to them and it's tedious and fucking boring.

Indo, these forums can be quite toxic at times and sometimes we all need to get a bit of fresh air. For the record, I think you're a good guy, I don't think you're stupid, I like how you are willing to learn and I think you have a pretty steady moral compass. I reckon you'd be good value on a boat trip.

Just take a deep breath sometimes- it's good for you.

Peace mate. Take it easy.

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goofyfoot Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 8:43pm

Nice post zen.

The stamina of these forum regulars is incredible. Relentless day in day out.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 8:51pm

Very zen, Zen, but Indo has been here a long time and seems quite capable of taking care of himself. But hey I bet that made you feel good!

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zenagain Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:04pm

No it didn't actually. Quite the opposite sadly.

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GuySmiley Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:18pm

Nice words zen but as I read them, specifically about others people posting links chasing issues down rabbit holes, I was left wondering isn’t that precisely what your buddy does day in day out? For eg his most recent YouTube post: the creator has all of 21 subscribers and two videos loaded online, the other being of Malcolm Roberts One Nation climate and science denier. Not really balanced imo.

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sypkan Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:31am

"No it didn't actually. Quite the opposite sadly."

I know the feeling zen...

and it's most interesting that some think we get a real kick out of calling out some of bullshit on here

this ain't sport for some of us, we comment because we feel compelled to do so

conpelled by blatent bullshit

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sypkan Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:36am

"I've noticed that when you gain a little traction and present an entirely reasonable point or something that is worth digging a bit deeper, they will shut you down immediately and call you any name under the sun. When you retaliate because you can't express yourself as well as you'd like they sit back in smug condescension and wait for you to do it again. It's a game to them and it's tedious and fucking boring."

yep, pretty bloody obvious when they've got nothing...

the MO is sooooo bloody obvious!

glad others have picked up on it

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indo-dreaming Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:02am

Thanks for the kind words Zen, yeah i know like others i get caught up in this stuff sometimes and post way to much, when i should just say whatever guys and walk away.

I was doing work related quote stuff online yesterday, so it was a little easy to avoid doing what i should be doing and click to see what had been said and get caught up in it all.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:11am
blindboy wrote:

So women can't be right-wingers? Interesting view, a bit sexist and patronising, but original.

Sure they can as can older couples.

But id say it's a pretty big assumption to assume 90% of people in this clip are right wing, i cant see any indication of their political or social leanings even from the signs held, they just look like everyday people to me of various ages and tend to be more women then men.

It's far easier with the union crowd the other week, to look at them and say they are all right wing, as they are the cliche demographic that many picture as right wing especially far right, the 20-60 year old males, often a bit rough around the edges.

But its also an assumption in this case to think they are right wing, as like it or not the demographic for tradies is generally 20-60 year olds, so is it any surprise thats what the crowd was mostly made up of?

If the Union crowd had mostly been like the video above, then you could assume that the protest was made up more of non union tradie members.

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Vic Local Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:13am

ID,
In all seriousness, go surfing and stop chasing this rabbit down the hole.
You're posting some truly shit videos from sources who are in it for themselves and don't give a flying fuck about their audience.
There's no shortage of family and friendship groups being ripped apart by the anti vax / ant lockdown / anti Antifa / anti passport mob.
You're not in that deep yet, but you are certainly looking down that hole. When you are coming across YouTube videos from truly unhinged sources, it's a sure sign you're being exposed to alt right crap by big tech algorithms. Be careful champ.

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:15am

Zen- An excellent post and a predictable misinformed reply from BB .

Only one thing I haven't noticed " Of course a lot of it you bring upon yourself " .

We all make some mistakes but Indo - not so many imo . Less than I do .

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blindboy Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 7:57am

So zen, on re-reading, your post is nothing but a disingenuous, sanctimonious load of piss and piffle. Disingenuous because you know as well as anyone here, that Indo’s posts are highly biased, often factually challenged and supported by cherry picked facts from a very limited number of sources that any check reveal to be as biased to the right as Indo himself. Sanctimonious, because it creates a veil of concern for Indo’s (previously never questioned) well being to hide your support for Indo’s views. Then there is the poor quality of your arguments.

“Bias is not a bad thing, it lies inside all of us- I happen to like cats but hate pumpkin, but that's how I roll. “

Sorry mate no-one gives a rat’s arse about your preference for cats or pumpkin but we are quite entitled to be pissed off when you defend a habitual climate denier over many years who advocates gun violence against trespassers and justifies racist discrimination.

“….when you dig a little deeper their 'source', their writer, the learned expert and whoever it is that funds them/it will ALWAYS support their biased view”

Well in terms of bias I think my sources (Nature, the New York Review of Books, the Sydney Morning Herald, the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, the WHO, various governmental health departments) beat Rebel News and the rest of Indo’s usual sources by orders of magnitude.

So thanks for descending from your cloud to offer your view. Maybe try for a little balance next time.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:12am

@VL & Guy

Ha ha you're still attacking the source even from some guys random video, that says it all.

You basically don't want your false narrative exposed nothing more.

There is no commentary at all, it's completely uncut footage, showing the whole crowd of protestors for five minutes.

You cant get any less bias reporting than this, i dont care what their other videos are, im not posting them, the video was chosen purely on being uncut and not a name/.channel we all know.

Obviously im pro vax (close to double jabbbed), i think all these anti vax, anti lockdown, freedom crowd are a little to a lot loopy, i dont agree with them, but lets not spin some BS that they are all far right or all far left, it's very clear the majority appear to be everyday people who just have different views and thoughts to ours..misguided maybe yes i agree.

BTW. ha ha OMG that is classic families ripped apart by Anti ANTIFA mob???

I highly doubt this is the case, i think you might find that families are more likely be ripped apart, if a family members got involved in Antifa thinking they are at some war with imaginary fascist and causing all kinds of havoc including beating and macing people, smashing up private and public property, setting buildings on fire, even attacking people who have no interest in them like a Christian group having some event in a park.

If you had a family member involved in this type of behaviour you would be crazy not to be concerned its extreme nutty fringe behaviour and often highly illegal.

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Vic Local Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:16am

Anti ANTIFA mob?
I think you've misinterpreted what I wrote Indo. Read it as one mov with a shared bunch of grievances. The far right are actively recruiting anti vaxxers and the anti lockdown crew. You're all getting exposed to the same bullshit. That's how YouTube works mate. Start looking up video on vaccine passports and up pops racist crap. That's not an accident.

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 8:51am

Viclocal - you said .

"The far right are actively recruiting anti vaxxers and the anti lockdown crew. "

Really ? How ? Where do people sign up ? Or are you just making something up again ? Another brain fart ?

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 9:10am

Nurse shortage? Tough - get your shot. Billions of containers waiting to be unloaded and trucked to fill empty shelves? Tough - get your shot. Murder alley Chicago facing 50 percent less cops because those who don't want the vax are being fired? Tough - get your shot. No one to fly the plane? Tough - get your shot. No teachers? Tough - get your shot!

Into this explosion of malevolent incompetence staggers US Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Department Wally Adeyemo - second-highest ranker in the entire Department. The Nigerian-born Adeyemo, who previously served as director of African American outreach for the inspiring John Kerry 2004 presidential campaign and as a senior advisor to corrupt "woke" multi-gazillionaire Larry Fink, should be given credit for at least being honest about the intentions of his bosses in the Biden Administration.

Interviewed on ABC News on Thursday, Adeyemo was asked about the thousands of container ships anchored offshore in California and elsewhere as US store shelves begin to look like Bulgaria circa 1975 - and even Santa Claus is sweating "supply chain" strangulation as Christmas quickly approaches.

The problem is you. You unwashed vermin who refuse to have a cocktail of experimental goop jabbed into your arm.

In the ABC interview Adeyemo admitted what we all know: inflation is beating the hell out of middle America (though Biden's multi-millionaire chief-of-staff laughed it off as "high class problems").

“We are seeing high prices for some of the things that people have to buy,” Adeyemo told ABC's Stephanie Ramos.

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zenagain Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:24pm

BB, I read your response to me so allow me to retort.

You're a retired educator right? 30 years to any and everyone who would listen. Did you bring the same smarminess and sarcasm into the classroom? Knowing full well that every student has been shaped by their environment, their upbringing, those that surround them, their intelligence- did you call them fuckwits when they didn't think the way you thought they should? Did you label them dangerous?

You're wrong about me, I don't agree for the most part with Indo's views, more often than not my eyes roll into the back of my head and I groan. It drives me nuts when he uses words, terms and phrases that he barely has an inkling of the meaning let alone understanding. What I do see is a bloke having a go though and what I also see is a couple of blokes on here that have cornered the market on sanctimony. Obviously smart, educated guys who should know better but choose the path of least resistance always. Also, contrary to what you may think, I don't think my post was disingenuous, I wrote it out of frustration and a little despair. I think it was my ham fisted way of trying to tell Indo to shut up for awhile but not to allow himself to be silenced or cancelled which seems to be the end goal here for some.

Maybe Indo doesn't need defending cause I see straight off the bat he's up and at it again and also, I kinda regret writing that last night but I'll own it and stand by it. I have a soft spot for Indo as do I have believe it or not, a certain level of respect for you and the other blokes I'm referring to. However, you don't need to impress me with your wide and varying sources, I'm easily impressed anyway because I keep my expectations low.

Anyway, this all just one and zeroes, nobody really knows anyone on here. I'd like to think that we'd all get on pretty well if we were having these convo's between sets or in the pub. I wish we could learn from each other but sometimes wonder has the teaching stopped because you don't draw a salary anymore? You've spent the better part of your life imparting your knowledge, shaping little minds, I'd be more interested to know in what you'd learnt on the way. Did you focus on the Dux and leave the Dunce behind because they were a lost cause? But there for the grace of god and all that...

Have a good one. Surf cold and shitty here.

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fitzroy-21 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 1:34pm

Well written post's above Zen. Something that needed to be said and in a way that others perhaps can't put properly into words.

Typical responses for the supposed "learned" morons though.

I personally couldn't be bothered with some of the BS on here and have learnt personal restraint, but every now and then.......I just can't help myself :)

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 2:12pm

China is not happy Jan .

The Pentagon revealed on Sunday that it sailed a US warship through the contested Taiwan Strait in conjunction with a Canadian frigate. The pair went through on Thursday and Friday at a moment tensions between China and Taiwan continue to intensify.

This continues the apparent Biden administration pattern of sailing a warship through the strait on "freedom of navigation" missions about once every month. This latest comes within weeks after China's PLA military flew record numbers of aircraft into Taiwan's air defense identification zone.

On October 4 two waves of Chinese aircraft, including long-range bombers, had flown toward Taiwan - which by day's end totaled a record-breaking 56 aircraft breaching the island's air defense zone. That particular weekend had seen wave after wave of threatening Chinese flights toward Taiwan, as Reuters summarized:

China sent about 150 aircraft into the zone over a four-day period beginning on Oct. 1 in a further heightening of tensions between Beijing and Taipei that has sparked concern internationally.

China over this weekend condemned what it called a threat to "peace and stability" after the two Western allies conducted the sail-through.

"The United States and Canada colluded to provoke and stir up trouble... seriously jeopardizing peace and stability of the Taiwan Strait," said a statement by China's People's Liberation Army's Eastern Theatre Command.

Meanwhile in a sign of its commitment to peace China did this -

The world learned on Saturday evening that China had made "astounding progress on hypersonic weapons and was far more advanced than U.S. officials realized," sources told F.T.

In August, the Chinese military launched a rocket that catapulted a hypersonic glide vehicle into low-Earth-orbit. It flew around the world before missing its target by only two dozen miles, three sources said.

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Vic Local Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 2:30pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Viclocal - you said .

"The far right are actively recruiting anti vaxxers and the anti lockdown crew. "

Really ? How ? Where do people sign up ? Or are you just making something up again ? Another brain fart ?

There's no shortage of far right organisations with a presences at anti-vax anti lockdown rallies. These people prey on vulnerable scared idiots looking for a place to belong.

Anyone stupid enough to believe vaccinations are poisonous and kill people, is dumb enough to believe in white Utopias.

Oh and yes, groups like the Lads Society, Australia First, and alt right political parties do have offical memberships.

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GuySmiley Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 2:44pm

Zen, I see some merit in what you said last night and today as I also see in Blindboy’s comments to you. I’ll make two general comments.

Firstly, any teacher (good/experienced/etc) will tell you about some students or the names of students that have ruined it for them, made them question whether they want to continue. Made them realise that despite their best efforts the kid was a lost cause. So to question someone’s career like you have is somewhat poor form.

My second point relates to my mindset here on certain issues that I’ve cared about for decades. At what point do you let the ill informed opinion off the hook and at what point do you hold it to account? Many here have come and gone attempting to engage in a positive way (just today @brutus and @bluediamond have called it stumps in the face of constant stupidity directed their way) but come up against a brick wall of belligerence. Facts not fiction should matter. Informed opinion should matter. Diversity of opinion is good. But zen, a shit sandwich is always a shit sandwich and if people contastly post shit here in the absence of SN acting it should be rightfully called out.

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zenagain Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:04pm

Fair enough Guy. Thankyou for your reply. We all see things differently and of course our levels of tolerance differ.

With respect to BB and his teaching- I'm sure he would have been a great teacher, how could a mind that sharp not be?

But, It seems the rule to the exception these days to resort to abuse, belittlement and name calling and that in my opinion is pretty poor form. I think we're all better than that.

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:14pm

Smiley - Zen did not question the teaching profession at all . He stated BB character "smarminess and sarcasm " .

BB has questioned my career .

He wrote " disingenuous, sanctimonious load of piss and piffle." . Poured scorn on cats and pumpkins ( I thought it humorous ).

Sounds sarcastic to me .

Many have come up against his , Viclocal , Roadkills etc relentless " brick wall of belligerence. " It is not one sided .

You say " Informed opinion should matter. Diversity of opinion is good."

Then you say you see merit in Zen's post and then call it a "Shit sandwich ".

" somewhat poor form."

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zenagain Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:16pm

Hutch, thankyou anyway, but with respect, I'll defend myself.

Anyway, probs time for me to step back too.

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Hutchy 19 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:31pm

Sorry Zen . Tried not to get involved but could not stop myself .

Vic - Those crazy right wingers must have got a lot of new members from the Tradies anti lockdown rallies . Some of those union thugs might come in handy .

I am amazed that Australia First has , like my golf club , an official membership . Bastards will be able to communicate with each other . They are smarter than I gave them credit for and I now understand your paranoia .

gsco's picture
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gsco Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:43pm

For my 2 cents worth, I welcome zen’s humane and heart felt posts, and I agree with much of their sentiment. Zen you seem like a really decent guy and someone I’d like to meet sometime, and I’ve also noticed your cool humour.

It does seem that certain people come to these forums with the intention of shit stirring, being the devil’s advocate, being offensive and inflammatory, presented bizarre and twisted logic aimed only at infuriating as apposed to constructively contributing to debate, and just plain personally attacking others.

But one thing I’d like to add is in my experience online, instant messaging type services and forums are a hotbed for misunderstanding and miscommunication.

I’ve spent the past decade or so working largely remotely via online workspaces like Slack, Hipchat and the Atlassian suite of products. I’ve noticed simple misunderstandings and miscommunication lead to quite large scale degeneration of personal and professional relationships. Oftentimes when the people met in person everything was very quickly resolved and settled, including annoyances and disputes that went on for months and years. Everyone always commented that there’s something about face to face meetings and work time and that people should get together in person way more often.

I’ve noticed similar misunderstandings happen in these forums and they’ve led to people immediately turning against each other, getting personal and taking things personal, and long-standing grudges and attacks.

Maybe a bit of mercy and benefit of the doubt here and there would be healthy, as well as first seeking to make sure you fully understand what someone is trying to say in their post before sounding off, particularly by reading between the lines a bit if there’s ambiguity and a post seems unclear.

Also, it’s very easy to take things personal when actually the other person is just trying to present valid, albeit poorly constructed, argument and debate that is not intended to be personal.

I really enjoy the debate in these forums and hope for it to continue with a full head of steam but with a bit more mercy and empathy and a bit less getting personal.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:45pm

hell yeah

adam12's picture
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adam12 Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:51pm

It's always on the verge of Lord of the Flies and someone gets to be Piggy. That's the nature of these things like it or not, there is always some gold in all the shit which is why the leavers return eventually. I've probably said and done more stupid, hurtful, callous, regretful, nasty, unforgivable and criminal things than the lot of you in my time...but you move on. Anyway, heard this joke today :Q-How did the anti-vaxxer cross the road? A-Do your own research.

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H2O Monday, 18 Oct 2021 at 3:52pm

Agree Gsco. Sometimes the forum discussions go like this.