The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

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sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:08pm

and maybe brendan tarrent's right wing environmentalism...

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zenagain Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:24pm

Maybe naive gsco but believe it or not, I've been around (and not just to Disneyland).

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Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:45pm

You blokes can't handle the fact that right wing terrorism is a major threat in the USA and authorities are now spending an increasing amount of time and effort on that increasing threat. That's why you just leap to personal abuse. You also spend a ridiculous amount of time creating an alternative reality where the neo-nazis aren't that bad and Antifa is the big threat. It's an intellectually bankrupt approach, but I know that's how you guys roll.
BTW zenagain, I fully understand why you have a great impression of Americans. They are exceptionally hospitable to visitors to their country. That doesn't change the fact the country has some serious flaws. If you lived there, you'd know the flaws can't be papered over with welcoming smiles and misplaced optimism.

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Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:46pm
sypkan wrote:

and maybe brendan tarrent's right wing environmentalism...

Seriously sypkan, that is just ridiculous and so offensive.

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etarip Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 9:07pm

Hey wax24. I get your point. It must be galling to read some of the claptrap on here. I’ve added my 2 cents here and there, so add me to the pile.

But, There’s something very different about the world looking at the US from the inverse. Of course there are more opinions on these forums than on a US-based forum about Australia. There’s just so much US cultural influence and residue throughout western culture, and especially the Anglosphere. Is it unsurprising? Aussie kids are raised on a TV diet of US crime drama, comedy, news influences, and even sport. Aussie kids watch NBA, follow NFL teams etc etc. I’ve seen more heated debates about the US election than our own. Like, real life office debates. It’s all so accessible now. More than ever.

The other reason for the degree of emotional investment is that I think Aussies genuinely want the US to be what it claims to be. It’s hard to see it so divided. I think it is at an inflection point.

I’ve been to the US more than 10 times, often for months at a time, for work. NC, FL, HI, DC, CO, PA, VA. Traveled thru plenty more states. I’ve lived in the US for a year, 2008, in NC. My wife lived in the US for 8 years, NY and MA. I’ve got some great Seppo mates, both here in Australia and in the US. I’d say most of them are on the small c conservative side of the ledger. Even the Democrats…
I wouldn’t say that I’m particularly well qualified to make judgements about America writ large. But who is?

It’s a really hard place to make generalizations about. That’s one of its strengths. I was constantly challenged and confounded. My assumptions overturned. I appreciate you being on these forums because it adds another voice beyond the usual chorus.

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zenagain Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 9:10pm

Cool post Eta aod Vic, you didn't answer my question.

Personally, I think you overstate the threat and conveniently fail to address the inverse.

But, we've been all over this before so I won't ask you to.

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sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 9:33pm

well if you find it too offensive that 'the left' like to claim the environment and sustainability as exclusively theirs...

perhaps you can answer how many people at the capital riot were terrorists?

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sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 9:36pm

or talk about the senator kidnapping plot... you got some serious right wing bashing mileage out of that at the time...

talk about that again

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Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 10:02pm

"perhaps you can answer how many people at the capital riot were terrorists?"
What a profoundly stupid question sypkan. It's not like anyone was taking a straw poll of the rabble on Jan 6..
I deal in facts. Yes there is left wing terrorism, but there's way more right wing terrorism in the USA. This is shown by the number of arrests, attacks, and convictions. You boys like to point to individual crimes by "the left" in a ridiculous display of whataboutism. I point to measurable facts. https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-...
Here's a challenge. If you think I'm wrong when I say RW terrorism in the USA is a much bigger problem than LW terrorism come up with a link with facts and figures showing I'm wrong, from a credible source. You need to link an actual study, not an opinion piece. Until you do that, you have no credibility.

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sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 10:46pm

oh come on... don't get all facts high and mighty now... its really not your domain... there's a couple of serious mis-facts just a few posts back, but Im avoiding the tedium of you not being accountable...

go on... have a stab...

a heap of them are terrorists?

a few terrorists?

a significant number of terrorists?

organised by terrorists?

and, ...you are so caught up in your own narrative... I don't think you've realised Im not arguing left wing terrorism is significant... geez i don't think even indo is arguing that...

Im arguing, as I've said, numerous times, your labels are all over the shop, on many fronts. and that 'terrorism' has become a rather ambiguous term, geez it was the left that used to say such things... until it became politically convenient for them not to...

the whole research, intelligence, education, government mega complex has become... lets say... err... somewhat lazer focussed...

so focussed in fact, some have argued they're kinda 'willing' events to happen...

not least, it's a matter of if you look hard enough...

but you're all on board with it... with what seems to be gross government overeach, with what seems to be rather authoritarian and quite fascist to be honest... which shouldn't really surprise me, given your past on here...

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wax24 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 11:37pm

Hey etarip. Thanx. It isn't the generalizations i was referring to. In a general way, i feel like this country earns those, both positive and negative. It's when people wax accusatory and prophetic. As if they know where the problem really lies and what the best prescription is. And they've not the depth of experience to make those calls, even in this sort of format. I could read up on your native population. I know them as Aborigines, but have seen them referred to as Blackfellas quite a few times here in Crew. I wouldn't know whether that moniker is offensive or not. I wouldn't have any experiences of nuances to draw from. I don't know any personally. But, i could read up on all and tell you blokes where, when , and how, etc... What a perfect cunt i would be to actually try and do that. And what ego! You need not worry. I am just sensible enough NOT to. Too bad that doesn't cut both ways. (as a related aside... i like the term Seppos and think it cute. I am not offended for my country. It is just well beyond irritating that i have to point out the other.)

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wax24 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 11:57pm

Then again, i work in hospital. I have that depth of experience to draw from when discussing public health, vaccines, the needs of frontline workers, etc... and I get to listen to a world full of yahoos who read a coupla articles that reinforce their biases and need to tell everyone else what is who. Extraordinary, really. Not in good way. Everyone is an expert and no one trusts the experts. And that is very much not limited to Crew. I have had to hold my tongue more in the last 20 months than in the 20 years previous, i believe. It gets old. When i get to page 97 (or however many the vaccine thread went), it gets even harder. Same for this thread. Which is why i am just gonna try to stick to actual surf stuff here moving forward. I don't need the social commentary.

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tubeshooter Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:01am

Great posts wax24 .
I'm guilty on 2 counts ,,, using the terms 'seppo' and 'blackfella'
'blackfella' 'whitefella' is pretty much colloquially used broadly amongst both groups. In general it's not considered offensive either way .
As for seppo , stoked your onboard , you can call me anything but late for dinner.

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zenagain Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:07am

Or Shirley.

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tubeshooter Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:17am

haha yeah ,,definitely not Shirley.. I'm serious.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 9:25am

Viclocal . Another Right wing riot , like the storming of the Capitol , you can gloat about .

Good news was that the police did not have to shoot anyone this time .

The woke storm DC: Dozens of 'extreme' climate change activists dubbed 'People vs Fossil Fuels' barge into Interior Department, leaving 'multiple cops and security' injured in scenes reminiscent of Jan. 6 Capitol riots
Police clashed with dozens of protestors who forced their way inside the Interior Department on Thursday
Demonstrators held five days of protests in DC calling for Biden to end all fossil fuel projects
Multiple security officers were injured and 55 demonstrators were arrested at the Interior Department
Activists forced their way in to hold a sit-in, which critics claimed was reminiscent of January 6 riot
The protest was part of 'a historic surge of Indigenous resistance', activists said
Footage captured protestors who made it inside the Department of the Interior who linked arms for sit-in .

Daily Mail .

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brutus Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 10:07am

Indo , ANTIFA VS Right wing.....stats....2011 Right wing groups killed 335 people...Left Wing like ANTIFA, 5 deaths....

Its weird when you compare ANTIFA which is more of a group if individuals with very little structure vs Right wing militant groups who are very organised and are actual right wing
political organizations spruiking violence who are now considered terrorist groups. You probably won't read the link I have put from a well respected source, the Centre for Strategic and International studies ....which proves ANTIFA is just a small loose group of against Racism/fascism "Based on a CSIS data set of 893 terrorist incidents in the United States between January 1994 and May 2020, attacks from left-wing perpetrators like Antifa made up a tiny percentage of overall terrorist attacks and casualties. Right-wing terrorists perpetrated the majority—57 percent—of all attacks and plots during this period, particularly those who were white supremacists, anti-government extremists, and involuntary celibates (or incels). In comparison, left-wing extremists orchestrated 25 percent of the incidents during this period, followed by 15 percent from religious terrorists, 3 percent from ethno-nationalists, and 0.7 percent from terrorists with other motives. In analyzing fatalities from terrorist attacks, religious terrorism has killed the largest number of individuals—3,086 people—primarily due to the attacks on September 11, 2001, which caused 2,977 deaths. In comparison, right-wing terrorist attacks caused 335 fatalities, left-wing attacks caused 22 deaths, and ethno-nationalist terrorists caused 5 deaths.

Viewed in this context, the threat from Antifa-associated actors in the United States is relatively small."

So Indo yeah ANTIFA destroy small amounts of property ( A Lot by common criminals just looting!) and a few injuries....meanwhile the right just loves killing and maiming people.....so yeah Indo that's where we differ ....you see economy/property etc as important , whereas I see human lives and the social issues arising from the rights ideology !

https://www.csis.org/analysis/who-are-antifa-and-are-they-threat

then you read about far right extremism where
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

indo-dreaming wrote:

@VL

When you can show me far right groups causing havoc night after night, destroying billions in property, taking over whole blocks like CHAZ, burning down police stations etc, i will start listening to you, but it just doesn't happen, we have serious but isolated incidents involving individuals or small groups of people.

Other than that, you have one event the Capitol and apart from a small group at the front all the footage clearly shows middle aged men casually walking around getting selfies with police etc.

If it was Antifa or BLM, that place would have been burnt to the ground.

And Adam, you are clearly uneducated on what Antifa are today and the havoc they cause, go update yourself then come back and we can talk.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 10:38am

@ Brutus

Im guessing you missed Zens post which is a great example of how it's not that simply.

zenagain wrote:

I know one death is too many but would you care to quantify or at least acknowledge the destruction to peoples property and businesses? What price would you put on that?

Mate of mine co-owned a restaurant/eatery in NYC during the BLM riots or whatever it was. Place was looted and torched. He almost topped himself. Now, broke with four kids. He's moved to Stamford CT and is now struggling behind a grill living hand to mouth.

I'm guessing he's not the only one.

This is not a one off story, ive read these things before you can imagine there would be thousands of people affected by the violence and destruction caused in the USA in the last year or so, can you imagine if you had people in your neighbourhood even your town in large groups, destroying property, burning shit down, just making you feel unsafe to walk the streets.

What would you do?

You know what you would do, if the cops did little, you would ether fight back like groups like Proud boys have, or you would put up with it hoping it changed, and if it didnt you would say fuck this im moving, as many people have.

It's not as simple as some death toll, you think property means nothing?...

Im sure you would feel different if some group smashed your business windows out every month

You people have your heads so far up your own arses its just ridiculous, its seriously a joke your a fucking disgrace.

You make excuses for the violence and destruction, you don't condone it even media and politicians dont its crazy and wrong.,

THATS THE PROBLEM.

On the flipside its very very rare to have anyone try to justify any other type of violence, be it some neo nazi group, some radical islamic group, or just some crazy gun man.

Anyway we are lucky we dont have a lot of this shit in Australia, but we shouldn't think it cant happen, if its accepted elsewhere it can happen here.

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gragagan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 11:00am

The research that I've done on this shows that the majority of violence in the BLM and ANTIFA protests was started by antagonists who would turn up, start smashing shit up and encourage others to do the same, then leave. Dressed in black, faces covered. And coincidently just after they would leave the police would turn up. It seemed to be a constant theme across the protests. Convenient for those in power / the police / the right-wing, giving them reason to denounce and crack down on protesters.

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brutus Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 11:18am

Indo...so you didn't read the links proving that your BS re ANTIFA .......you then use Zens example , which is a sad story.....then you rant on about " it's not as simple as some death toll ( spoken like a true right wing hater!) , you think property means nothing ?"

The Stats show the right likes to kill and harm people , the left attacks their property.....which is a real indication of your morals..you are the problem in this ever evolving world.....getting left (pardon the pun!) behind in your world , where profit is your God and at any cost!

As I said before, the right is all about Rich/richer/more is better , white is right ,

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AndyM Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:01pm

“ the right likes to kill and harm people , the left attacks their property...”

Jeez Brutus, you reckon?

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brutus Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:12pm
AndyM wrote:

“ the right likes to kill and harm people , the left attacks their property...”

Jeez Brutus, you reckon?

I actually meant The right wing extremists vs the left wing extremists......

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:14pm

the contempory fake left own the property!!

woke corporations, big tech., nike slave factories...

I wish 'the left' would tear that shit down...

they seem too busy trashing ma and pa's cornerstore to notice

and it's often a not so white ma and pa unfortunately...

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:16pm

I guess it's hard to denounce and trash nike when they sponsor your cause

which is the crux of the problem that I can see

wall street, big tech. and now big pharma have bought the left

it's a clusterfuck of conflict of interest...

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:19pm

Then there is the more fundamental difference between right and left, that the left protests against well established injustices (generations of racist oppression for BLM) and for progress on important issues (climate action). The right protests against common sense (anti-vaxxers) and for the re-establishment of racist oppression (neo-nazis).

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GuySmiley Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:31pm

Info cherry picking his info, who would have thunked that?

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GuySmiley Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:53pm

BB, I reckon much on what the right protest about is maintaining their view of the world ie the status quo be it religious, social, economic or political. This is why their protests often go hand in glove with a scare campaign eg gays, refugees, taxes. The politics of exclusion and reactionary in nature because it’s an organised movement of stubborn resistance against all and any change.

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AndyM Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:55pm

Blindboy to say that the Right have the market cornered on anti-vaccination protests is absolutely positively wrong.

We’ve gone over this before - you seem fixated on your binaries.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 12:58pm
AndyM wrote:

Blindboy to say that the Right have the market cornered on anti-vaccination protests is absolutely positively wrong.

We’ve gone over this before - you seem fixated on your binaries.

Thank's Andy, respect the fact even with your left leaning views you call this out, cause its tiring calling it out all the time.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:06pm

Anyway i kind of blame Trump whenever he starts taking a view on something the media and politicians take the opposite view, the lab leak the best example.

But as you can see in 2017 before Trump start bringing them up Antifa were taken more seriously without political bias.

"FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks

Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violenc...

The whole George Flyod BLM crap didnt help either, Antifa and BLM started bluring in some ways into one and nobody had any balls to call them out when it's in anyway race related.

BTW. Dont at all think Antifa dont target Black people because there is plenty of examples where they have, i even posted one video yesterday, where some Christians doing some crap in a park were attacked, including kids and at least one black women who talks in the video.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:18pm

Andy what do you reckon the percentage on the streets in Australia is? My estimate would be 90% right-wingers inspired by Kelly and the rest of the loons. For the rest, a few crystal healers who would probably have difficulty telling left from right anyway and.......

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:21pm

BTW. I was curious and that link is from a news outlet rated as left centre bias with high factual reporting.

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:24pm

"We’ve gone over this before - you seem fixated on your binaries."

blind, binded, and binaried..

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:25pm

...seems he's cut the union movement free too..

all in fake left corporate wokesters

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brutus Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:30pm

So Indo ANTIFA are dangerous , but are just the minnows of extremists.....with them copping a lot of the blame for things criminals did in their name...eg looting!

Meanwhile the right wing extremist groups are seen by the FBI as local terrorist groups....where they have killed and maimed a 100 + times more than ANTIFA....and you Indo support them , Yeah you Proud Boy!
"https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

Just for your Info Indo...the CSIS is one of the most respected think tanks on the Planet!

indo-dreamingreallynightmare wrote:

Anyway i kind of blame Trump whenever he starts taking a view on something the media and politicians take the opposite view, the lab leak the best example.

But as you can see in 2017 before Trump start bringing them up Antifa were taken more seriously without political bias.

"FBI, Homeland Security warn of more ‘antifa’ attacks

Federal authorities have been warning state and local officials since early 2016 that leftist extremists known as “antifa” had become increasingly confrontational and dangerous, so much so that the Department of Homeland Security formally classified their activities as “domestic terrorist violence,” according to interviews and confidential law enforcement documents obtained by POLITICO."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/antifa-charlottesville-violenc...

The whole George Flyod BLM crap didnt help either, Antifa and BLM started bluring in some ways into one and nobody had any balls to call them out when it's in anyway race related.

BTW. Dont at all think Antifa dont target Black people because there is plenty of examples where they have, i even posted one video yesterday, where some Christians doing some crap in a park were attacked, including kids and at least one black women who talks in the video.

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AndyM Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:32pm
blindboy wrote:

Andy what do you reckon the percentage on the streets in Australia is? My estimate would be 90% right-wingers inspired by Kelly and the rest of the loons. For the rest, a few crystal healers who would probably have difficulty telling left from right anyway and.......

How on earth do you get that figure?
By looking at footage of protest rallies?

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:35pm
blindboy wrote:

Andy what do you reckon the percentage on the streets in Australia is? My estimate would be 90% right-wingers inspired by Kelly and the rest of the loons. For the rest, a few crystal healers who would probably have difficulty telling left from right anyway and.......

Estimate based on?

From the videos ive watched from guys like Avi and Real Ruskan (ironically both people of colour) that both actually talk to the people on the ground, its hard to say what their political leaning are but seem to take in all types of people of both sexes, different ages and even a broad ethnic background.

I think a more realistic estimate would be the majority dont have any strong political leanings, the friends i have that are anti vaxer, anti lockdown are often completely unexpected one is extremely left leaning best described as an environmentalist.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:38pm

Andy, the only figures, that I am aware of, publicly promoting an anti-vax stance are right-wingers. Happy to be better informed.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:53pm
blindboy wrote:

Andy, the only figures, that I am aware of, publicly promoting an anti-vax stance are right-wingers. Happy to be better informed.

That doesn't at all mean the followers are, they are just playing this issue to get views and more followers, apparently Sky News numbers are way up with Covid, go have a look on United Palmers, Face book page and read some of the comments you might be surprised.

It's not the anti Labor/Greens anti left thing i see on conservative pages, its much different it's anti LNP & Labor, anti mainstream type thing its a different demographic but its also weird it not like it's a far right or far left fringe thing either, i think its more just ordinary non political everyday people.

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Hutchy 19 Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:56pm

BB- You should be better informed on most issues . Do you think Russell Brand is a right winger .

You seem as you are in "the Cone of Silence " .

Why , when uninformed , do you have to make so many comments ?

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 1:58pm

Russel Brand= rarely agree with him, but still my favourite lefty.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 2:25pm

".......but still my favourite lefty"

Ha ha behind the times there Kneecapper.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/09/29/the-backlash-again...

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AndyM Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 2:29pm
blindboy wrote:

Andy, the only figures, that I am aware of, publicly promoting an anti-vax stance are right-wingers. Happy to be better informed.

I’m at work at the moment I’ll give my two cents worth later on.
By my observations which I am absolutely confident of, Anti-vax by no means comes from the right, despite who pops up in public.

I’m actually quite curious as to a connection between the political right and anti-vaccination.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 2:43pm
blindboy wrote:

".......but still my favourite lefty"

Ha ha behind the times there Kneecapper.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2021/09/29/the-backlash-again...

No surprise the left always eat their own.

He is clearly left leaning though ive watched/listened to his interviews with conservatives, his ideals are extremely left leaning and he rarely agrees with his conservative guest but he still disagrees in a tasteful way and he is still willing to listen and try to see things from their point of view.

He is similar to Joe Rogan in that regard, who is also another lefty i respect, plus Blowin & Sykan there lefties but good guys, but i think they are from the real left, not the fake left :P

It's how things should be, you should be a able to completely disagree with someone on politics of even social issues and not think that it means they are the enemy like some do, i try not to judge people on their politics but it is a bit hard on a forum when that's often all you are given.

BTW. Just for the record i wasn't thinking of aiming for knees so much or even groin, i was thinking more just nice flesh shot to the things or calf.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 2:45pm

"OPINION: The far-right, anti-vaxxers, and conspiracy theorists appear to have found fertile ground, particularly among men who feel alienated, fearful about employment and who spend a lot of time scrolling social media and encrypted messaging apps."
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-anti-vaxxers-conspiracy-theorists-and-th...

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:19pm
blindboy wrote:

"OPINION: The far-right, anti-vaxxers, and conspiracy theorists appear to have found fertile ground, particularly among men who feel alienated, fearful about employment and who spend a lot of time scrolling social media and encrypted messaging apps."
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-anti-vaxxers-conspiracy-theorists-and-th...

The intro line above is a bit strange seeing that whole article is based around Union members, who have jobs???

That protest was very unique it was tradies, not just any tradies but big construction site tradies who are involved in Unions and ironically most likely Labor voters, the guy writing the article is a member of the Labor party, off course he doesn't want to have them seen as his own, but most are.

That protest/rally was not your typical one and not typical of the whole anti vac/anti lockdown/fredom demographic that is documented in many videos.

You could come to another conclusion if you wrote an article about these ladies, or are they right wing too?

Obviously these are two sides of a coin, but the middle would be different again.

Like below

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:20pm

.

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blindboy Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:25pm
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GuySmiley Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:45pm

Isn’t Avi that wife bashing individual you like quoting that VicLocal smacks you down all the time as having zero credibility ?

Paging VL ...

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sypkan Sunday, 17 Oct 2021 at 3:51pm

all those right wing nutters in those vids must have culturally appropriated the left...

just sayin