The United States(!) of A

factotum's picture
factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Friday, 15 Oct 2021 at 8:45pm

Qanon, when enough people believe fantastical bullshit......bad things are inevitable.......and surfing is no protection.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/matthew-taylor-col...

koray mascud's picture
koray mascud's picture
koray mascud Friday, 15 Oct 2021 at 11:43pm

I think you might be pissing into the wind if you start posting examples of inappropriate violence as a defence of the US rioting. For every one of the above there’s dozens of examples of the riotous fascist mob thugs injuring/ killing people with no more reason than the fact that they’re unconscionable fuckwits.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:42am

Yeh the attack on the Capital was a disgrace.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:38am

@ BB

Im pretty certain koray mascud was referring more to the months of unrest in 2020 in the USA, widespread riots & looting, over 25 dead countless injured, whole blocks like CHAZ taken over by nutcases extremist groups like ANTIFA where even police could not go, widespread vandalism and destruction of private and public property, all kinds of shit burnt to the ground including police stations, 2 billion plus in insurance claims as a result of the destruction, a wide spread campaign of hate towards police that caused much heart ache and stress to officers and their families the effect of which will be felt for years.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:39am

Nah he mentioned fascists, they are on Trump's team.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:43am

There is no bigger fascist than ANTIFA, obviously a name means jack shit, im sure you dont think the Nazis (National Socialist German Workers' Party) were socialist???

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:55am

So the anti-fascists are fascists? Ha ha ha. So the real anti-fascists are the anti-anti-fascists? Who seem to be happy to call themselves fascists and wave swastikas around. Trciky stuff Indo!

adam12's picture
adam12's picture
adam12 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 10:48am

Indo, again mate, learn some history. Hitler and his cronies did not start the National Socialist Workers Party, they took it over as a vehicle to grow their power base in the German Parliament. It's name didn't matter to them. The communists and socialists were among the first people sent to the camps.
As for your obsession with Antifa, where the fuck are they? Who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6?

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 11:25am

Adam - The Labor party has also been taken over by people as a vehicle to grow their power base . They have abandoned some of their traditional base to party with the Greens . Probably the LNP to .

The people who stormed the Capitol looked like ordinary people to me ( mabe a few radicals like ANTIFA who wanted to stir up trouble ). Probably run of the mill Republicans . I can't work out why , with so much warning , the place had no security .

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 11:47am
blindboy wrote:

So the anti-fascists are fascists? Ha ha ha. So the real anti-fascists are the anti-anti-fascists? Who seem to be happy to call themselves fascists and wave swastikas around. Trciky stuff Indo!

Quite clearly yes, those that claim to be anti fascist are clearly closer to fascist than 99.9% of others, using violence and intimidation to silence anyone who disagrees with the havoc, social disturbance & vandalism they cause, because hey in their mind everyone is a fascist FFS.

As for anyone waving swastikas around, if they were the only people Antifa attacked or tried to silence, we might only see them be active every few years, but thats not the people they try to silence or attack, everyone is a fascist in their deluded minds, include Trump including Biden or just anyone and everyone..

They even try to silence journalist who report on them and not just Andy Ngo a gay man of colour, they have also tried to silence and attack other journalist that report on them, recently it was a female journalist Maranie R. Staab who has even reported for the extremely left leaning Vice.

adam12 wrote:

Indo, again mate, learn some history. Hitler and his cronies did not start the National Socialist Workers Party, they took it over as a vehicle to grow their power base in the German Parliament. It's name didn't matter to them. The communists and socialists were among the first people sent to the camps.
As for your obsession with Antifa, where the fuck are they? Who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6?

The history is kind of irrelevant the point is a name mean's jack shit, it's the actions of people that count.

Where are Antifa?

FFS dude do you live under a rock???

Antifa are extremely active in various parts of the USA, many areas of Portland including police department and state buildings first floors are still bordered up because the windows constant get smashed out.

Antifa are regularly active in various parts of the USA and in 2020 Active on a nightly basis, but were still causing issues before 2020.

But but the capitol, FFS, one event that got out of hand where still the majority were wondering around aimlessly taking selfies, compared to an organisation who's whole aim is to cause social unrest and do so on a regular basis and includes murders and buring down of police stations and public buildings.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 11:46am

Yeh but they are not, within any remotely acceptable definition, fascists. See if you can find a definition that fits.
PS: Not one you made up.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 11:55am
blindboy wrote:

Yeh but they are not, within any remotely acceptable definition, fascists. See if you can find a definition that fits.
PS: Not one you made up.

Yes and neither are the imaginary fascist that Antifa oppose, which is basically anyone.

Thats the problem the boogie men they oppose dont even exist, their idea of fascism and fascist is completely made up, they are just looking for an excuse to cause unrest and social disobedience because they are just losers without purpose or direction and need something to fill that gap thinking they are on some mission.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 12:05pm

So you were wrong. Thanks Indo.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 12:32pm

The meaning of fascist and fascism seems to have evolved over the years.

If you go with the traditional meaning, well there is no fascist and Antifa are pointless.

If you go with the more modern meaning, well Antifa are more the fascist than anyone else.

BTW. Only reason you give them a free pass is because some claim them as a left wing group, they aren't really they are opposed to any government or party, but if the media came out and labeled them a far right group tomorrow, you would start a new thread every week on them.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 12:52pm

"the more modern meaning"

Please supply this.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 1:02pm

ID,
Tell me again who the real fascists are: The white supremacists marching with tiki torches saying "The jews will not replace us" or the people who opposed them?
What about the insurgents who stormed the Capital on Jan 6 because they refused to admit Trump lost the election? Are they fascists or are the people who are holding that mob to account the big threat to US democracy?
Fair dinkum ID, I'm happy to tolerate some of your ideas, but this "Antifa are the real fascists" nonsense makes you look batshit crazy. Your ability to ignore the huge problem of racist, anti-government, violent right wing extremists in the USA, while losing sleep over Antifa is just weird.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 2:09pm
blindboy wrote:

"the more modern meaning"

Please supply this.

The traditional meaning of fascism is a right wing dictatorship that shares many elements of communism as shown below, they are both very terrible ideologies.

However today to be called a fascist is used more of a slur, against anyone who tries to prevent free speech.

It's lost much of it's political meaning and basically taken those central elements, most people today call someone a fascist not implying they are in support of some right wing totalitarian government, but implying they are against free speech, anti democracy, anti individual.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 2:25pm
Vic Local wrote:

ID,
Tell me again who the real fascists are: The white supremacists marching with tiki torches saying "The jews will not replace us" or the people who opposed them?
What about the insurgents who stormed the Capital on Jan 6 because they refused to admit Trump lost the election? Are they fascists or are the people who are holding that mob to account the big threat to US democracy?
Fair dinkum ID, I'm happy to tolerate some of your ideas, but this "Antifa are the real fascists" nonsense makes you look batshit crazy. Your ability to ignore the huge problem of racist, anti-government, violent right wing extremists in the USA, while losing sleep over Antifa is just weird.

The big problem here is 99.99999% of conservatives dont support white supremist or Neo Nazis or far right extremists, they condemn them and their ideologies and they are as rare as hens teeth.

The problem is a very large number of so called progressives support Antifa or turn a blind eye to them even politicians, which is crazy they are a danger to society, caused much unrest and destruction, regularly use violence and intimidation and have even killed people. (above is a video of them attacking Christians in a park that included people of colour and women and children)

In regard to those that were at the Capital, yeah it would be fair to call some of the more radical fascist but where do you draw the line?, there was many that didn't accept Trump being elected and hit the street smashing things up, what are they?

BTW. Even people like Joe Rogan have said Antifa are closer to fascist than those they oppose and he identifies as a progressive.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 2:25pm

Well maybe but when words are used that loosely we lose the ability to be precise and cannot distinguish between a mob provoked by generations of discrimination and violence against them such as BLM, and the mob of more traditional fascists who stormed the Capital as a direct attack on democracy.

etarip's picture
etarip's picture
etarip Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 2:36pm

Where did you come up with that figure indo? 99.9999% of whatever? Is that a fact or a hunch? I’m going to call bullshit on your comparison between conservatives and liberals on this front.

I’d suggest that while very few people of a conservative bent are going to go public and identify with / support Neo-Nazis, Far Right groups, some (many more than 0.00001%) exhibit sympathies for the cause, or some of the actions, or share the grievances if not the ideology. I’m also going to call bullshit on your assertion that they consistently call out the ideology. They do, sometimes, when their hand is forced.

Now, I will concede that behaviour of some groups and individuals associated with Antifa is inexcusable too. And shouldn’t be given a free pass. But that’s not what you were saying.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 2:50pm

"The big problem here is 99.99999% of conservatives dont support white supremist or Neo Nazis or far right extremists,"
Well we all know that that statement is complete and utter bullshit. The Trump organisation actively courted the far right. He excused their racism, he embraced scum like Bannon, and his favourite TV channel actively pushed alt-right great replacement theories. Many of his sponsors also supported alt right causes and funded deeply racist activists / media.
Despite Trump being a racist turd who was in bed with the far right, 71 million people still voted for the scumbag.
Now I've lived in the USA and I can tell you first hand more than .00001% of Americans hold deeply racist opinions. I made a bad cut on a job site once and the carpenter said "it looks like a nigger cut this" much to the laughs of the other tradies. And that was in a very progressive state. So no, it's not .00001%. Racism is absolutely commonplace.
ID, your ability to dismiss America's far right as some tiny minority just doesn't stack up. American conservatives either actively embrace racism or are happy to tolerate it. There was virtually no condemnation of the far right by conservatives. Trump even said they were "very fine people".
But hey, just you ignore all the heavily armed militias in the USA, ignore the far right hate crimes, ignore Jan 6, ignore the fact the GOP actively embraces racism, ignore the fact many white supremacist groups are deemed terrorist organisations and you just worry about Antifa you complete weirdo.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 3:55pm

It's very hard to prove or disprove a percentage, but the point is it's very very rare for people to openly support white supremest or Neo Nazis or Far right extremist. (i think most will agree these views are very rare)

The flip side is people openly support Antifa even politicians, and like it or not the facts are they cause much much more mayhem and destruction than any far right group. i mean imagine if a far right group took over a whole block like CHAZ, or hit the streets like in Portland where police regularly declared riots in 2020, it just doesn't happen, there just isn't anywhere near the number of people involved in these things as there are people involved in groups like Antifa.

If far right group violence happens, yeah sure its serious but its generally small groups and individuals.

And VL as much as i condone any form of racism even if casual, casual racism like laughing at a racist joke doesn't exactly make someone a white supremest or neo nazi or far right extremist, my wife just like many Indonesians has quite casual racist views towards black people or Chinese and sure isn't involved in any of these groups. (Ironically she has quite good friends that are African and Chinese)

And i will openly admit when i was younger i made and laughed at racist jokes, and i think if people are honest they did too. I work on job sites and in all honestly i rarely hear that stuff now though and if i did id say something to let the know its not cool.

The groups you call far right, assume like proud Boys or Patriot prayers are more nationalist groups with many coloured members as we all know the leader of the proud boys is of mixed race Cuban/Afro American one of their chapters is almost all Latino.

You're fully clutching at straws.

As for Trump, for a Republican he did alright with the black vote which actually increased from 2016 (8%) to 2020(12%) to find a higher black vote for a republican you have to go back to 1980 when it was 14%. (so 40 years)

His minority groups vote also increased and was quite high just a little under what Bush got.

But hey "you aint black if you vote for Trump" right?

adam12's picture
adam12's picture
adam12 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 4:06pm

The problem you have Indo is that you bought into the label 'Antifa' being promoted by Fox News and the like, and now a year or so later you have educated yourself somewhat as to the meaning and history of fascism and come to the realization the 'Portland' crowd were not anti fascists but just people intent on fucking shit up, who like you and Fox and even some amongst them, adopted a label that was inappropriate and stuck to it no matter what. Again I say in it's strict meaning, Antifa were English and European nationalist punks that would fight neo-nazi punks, it is a bit dated now anyway and it is not really an American thing per se. Just a scary name to spook the horses that are glued to Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon and co. and create a bogey man in heads like yours.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 4:39pm

"If far right group violence happens, yeah sure its serious but its generally small groups and individuals."
Let me break down this absolute nonsense by Indo Dreaming.
It starts badly with the word "if". It should start with "When". Far right terrorism has a very long history in the USA and it is rapidly increasing with Trump. See https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2021/domestic-...
About the only thing he gets right is saying it's "serious". I would have used the term "lethal" because well ya know. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/03/active-shooter-cielo-vi...
As for "small groups and individuals" well yes, that's who generally does the killing, but they are cheered on by a much larger group of extremists. These right wing extremists are radicalised online by hate groups with thousands upon thousands of members.
And it's not always small groups is it. Thousands stormed the capitol, and hundreds of heavily armed militia men have been involved in multiple standoffs with law enforcement. Groups like the 3 percenters, oath keepers, Proud Boys, and multiple state militias have thousand upon thousands of members.
ID, you like to think that individual right wing terrorists just pop up out of thin air. That's simply not the case. They've been radicalised online by much larger groups.
By your standards, I could say the 21 terrorists that brought down the twin towers were just a small group, but we all know that's bullshit. You like to pretend the far right are not organised in the USA. Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. They are structured, well connected, well funded and there's even a bunch of absolute right wing lunatics in Congress and the Senate.
But hey if you want to pretend that right wing extremism in the USA is just a few bad apples, good luck to you.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 4:54pm

You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?

Rusty Forest's picture
Rusty Forest's picture
Rusty Forest Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:10pm

Yep

Rusty Forest's picture
Rusty Forest's picture
Rusty Forest Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:11pm

However I love the design articles.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:13pm

Viclocal - you say "You like to pretend the far right are not organised in the USA. Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. They are structured, well connected, well funded and there's even a bunch of absolute right wing lunatics in Congress and the Senate."

You are probably right .

But the far left out number the far right 20 to 1 plus . Without trying I can name the Squad , many in the media , judiciary , universities ( critical race theories ) , big tech , here the Greens and some unions the list is endless . The far left are the best a violent demos and are proud of it .

"But hey if you want to pretend that left wing extremism in the USA is just a few bad apples, good luck to you."

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:41pm

@VL

When you can show me far right groups causing havoc night after night, destroying billions in property, taking over whole blocks like CHAZ, burning down police stations etc, i will start listening to you, but it just doesn't happen, we have serious but isolated incidents involving individuals or small groups of people.

Other than that, you have one event the Capitol and apart from a small group at the front all the footage clearly shows middle aged men casually walking around getting selfies with police etc.

If it was Antifa or BLM, that place would have been burnt to the ground.

And Adam, you are clearly uneducated on what Antifa are today and the havoc they cause, go update yourself then come back and we can talk.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:42pm
zenagain wrote:

You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?

ha ha Sorry.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:48pm

"You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?"

yeh, viclocal still pushing the CNN fake news propaganda, ...well after it's been well and truly debunked...

still...

again...

and indodreaming tirelessly calling out the endless bullshit ...the endless propagandaist bullshit, from those that supposedly 'don't like bullshit'...

again...

still...

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:45pm
sypkan wrote:

"You ever get the feeling it's Groundhog day on SN sometimes?"

yeh, viclocal still pushing the CNN fake news propaganda well after it's been debunked...

still...

again...

and indodreaming tirelessly calling out the endless bullshit ...from those that supposedly 'don't like bullshit'...

again...

still...

Ha ha this is a good excuse to share the classic 2020 meme that made itself. (not edited just a screenshot)

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:50pm

and, you can argue over labels all you want...

labels that have been weaponised by the propagandaists... but I'll judge a person or group on their behaviour, and i see some pretty gross fsscist tendencies coming from some pretty deranged and deluded entities....

call it what you want... but it certainly ain't peace, love, and 'tolerance'...

carry on

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 5:59pm
indo-dreaming wrote:

Ha ha this is a good excuse to share the classic 2020 meme that made itself. (not edited just a screenshot)

not actually what I was referring to...

but yes, that really never does get old... for some of us...

the fact that it is a totally unedited, totally undoctored, screenshot, just adds to the gold...

(these people really have lost all capacity of self awareness and ability at self reflection... ...so far gone, it's mind blowing actually!)

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:24pm

Whatever blokes.
You won't read the following link which is a rock solid source for information about terrorism in the USA
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
So I will just copy and past some key findings.
"In comparison, right-wing terrorist attacks caused 335 deaths, left-wing attacks caused 22 deaths, and ethnonationalist terrorists caused 5 deaths."
"Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020."
But hey, you blokes don't do facts. You just point to one shameful riot and pretend that's the biggest extremist problem in the USA. And I will let you know another secret, RW terrorism in Australia is also increasing. There's been plenty of arrests lately too. Not to forgot the Australian scumbag who murdered 51 in Christchurch. But judging from your rants, you blokes don't have a problem with that massacre (none of you even mention it) but you do freak out about Antifa.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 6:30pm

I know one death is too many but would you care to quantify or at least acknowledge the destruction to peoples property and businesses? What price would you put on that?

Mate of mine co-owned a restaurant/eatery in NYC during the BLM riots or whatever it was. Place was looted and torched. He almost topped himself. Now, broke with four kids. He's moved to Stamford CT and is now struggling behind a grill living hand to mouth.

I'm guessing he's not the only one.

wax24's picture
wax24's picture
wax24 Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:01pm

Fascists and radical thinking occur on the left and the right. It is silly to throw rocks from one side to the other. Constantly referring to the excesses of the guys you don't like is deflection and gaslighting. It is for children and sociopaths. But, then, i have learned very quickly that this crew has an abundance of the former. Can't speak to the latter. Don't know any of you. Thank god. It is laughable to see this much noise and this many Righteous Opinions (we are on page 97 of this thread now) on a country that many have never even visited. When you don't really know, better to say that than anything else. I don't really know Oz. I can read history, form opinions, etc... but i don't really know because i have not lived and experienced it. And i don't mean you were here for a month 10 years ago, or you used to travel for business here. So, because i recognize that i don't really know Oz.. i go to lengths not to comment on it's issue and policies. Who am i to do that? And, again, here we are. Page 97. And most of it is drivel. But good on ya mates. Keep bein yourselves.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:09pm
zenagain wrote:

I know one death is too many but would you care to quantify or at least acknowledge the destruction to peoples property and businesses? What price would you put on that?

Mate of mine co-owned a restaurant/eatery in NYC during the BLM riots or whatever it was. Place was looted and torched. He almost topped himself. Now, broke with four kids. He's moved to Stamford CT and is now struggling behind a grill living hand to mouth.

I'm guessing he's not the only one.

Sad story and not the first time ive read of a story like that, there is a much bigger picture.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:33pm
Vic Local wrote:

Whatever blokes.
You won't read the following link which is a rock solid source for information about terrorism in the USA
https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating-terrorism-problem-united-states
So I will just copy and past some key findings.
"In comparison, right-wing terrorist attacks caused 335 deaths, left-wing attacks caused 22 deaths, and ethnonationalist terrorists caused 5 deaths."
"Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020."
But hey, you blokes don't do facts. You just point to one shameful riot and pretend that's the biggest extremist problem in the USA. And I will let you know another secret, RW terrorism in Australia is also increasing. There's been plenty of arrests lately too. Not to forgot the Australian scumbag who murdered 51 in Christchurch. But judging from your rants, you blokes don't have a problem with that massacre (none of you even mention it) but you do freak out about Antifa.

Clearly from this article what is defined as Right wing terrorism is pretty loose.

"First, right-wing terrorism refers to the use or threat of violence by sub-national or non-state entities whose goals may include racial or ethnic supremacy; opposition to government authority; anger at women, including from the incel (“involuntary celibate”) movement; and outrage against certain policies, such as abortion.6 This analysis uses the term “right-wing terrorism” rather than “racially- and ethnically-motivated violent extremism,” or REMVE, which is used by some in the U.S. government."

I mean seriously " opposition to government authority" or "anger at women" is right wing?

In the past we just labeled most of these people, nut jobs, often just mentally ill in some way often not receiving the treatment they need, classic example Martin Bryant whom today would be labeled a far right terrorist as would many others of the past even though they really dont have any political type leanings economical or social.

These days clearly Right wing terrorist is basically the other box when they dont fit into either "Far left terrorist" or "Radical islam terrorist"

BTW. The NZ shooter was similar, yeah sure you could label some of his views far right, but he had a very weird mish mash of views many left leaning, i just think he was a nutcase.

"Tarrant called himself an “ecofascist” promoting “green nationalism,” anti-population growth (excepting Europeans), anti-urbanization and pro-sustainable economic practices. He is pro-union, pro-minimum wage and pro-workers rights (to keep out immigrant labor). And he explicitly rejects conservatism, capitalism, individualism and consumerism. “Conservatism is dead,” he wrote. “Thank God. Now let us bury it and move on to something of worth.”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/03/18/christchurch-new-zeala...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:26pm

"But hey, you blokes don't do facts. You just point to one shameful riot and pretend that's the biggest extremist problem in the USA. "

yeh, it's we that 'don't do facts' ...mate you spread the most perverse bullshit ever...

your posts above are full of misinformation and hyperbole... they always are... but it's you that... 'calls out bulllshit'... whatever dude...

'one shameful riot'

...that went for four months...

is that 'one riot'? ...or 128 days of rioting?

sounds more like a war than a shameful little day to me...

and mate, your labels are all over the shop, they are just as cooked as your perspective

fwiw, some of us don't 'freak out about antifa' at all...

we freak out about the media denial, misinformation, and cover up that went on for months and months...

and was only reined in, when polling found it was actually damaging the democrat party... now there's some cynical shit manipulations... ...then, magically... overnight... the 'peaceful protests' that were unable, under any circumstances whatsoever, to be called anything but... (unless one wanted to excommunicate oneself...) miraculously were referred to as 'violent' and for the more adventurous... 'rioting'...

it's the hyperbole, misrepresentation, misinformation, false labelling, and blame shifting that pisses some of us off...

and you are the master at it

you and a couple of your mates on here

and I really wonder what it is you think you are achieving... as you preach to your choir... signal to your tribe... pump your little egos... whilst only raising the vitriol, outrageousness, divisiveness, and the dangerous gulf of accepted reality with your opponents... who you will never ever win over anyway...

because I believe most people are very similar to me... they look at whats happening... and they look at you... and they look at your opponents.... and they think, what a bunch of deranged, void of reality, hate filled fucking morons!! ...all of them!!!!

I don't want anything to do with any of these fuckwits and the hate and divisiveness they are peddling...

and I will actively rail, campaign, and vote against anyone that spreads their propaganda, represents them, or generally is not living in reality, to further a political agenda...

I don't give a shit who's right, who's 'right', or who's 'left'... because these terms mean pretty much nothing in the corrupted contemporary media and political landscape... as you prove to me every single day on here...

but you carry on...

in your quest of hate, division, and misrepresentation...

a quest that just pushes the voters you need (people like me) further and further away...

just carry on...

'winning'

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:31pm

"I mean seriously " opposition to government authority" or "anger at women" is right wing?"

exactly!!!

had a little chuckle when vicvocal wrote 'anti government' like it's a bad thing...

I remember a time... not so long ago...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:34pm

"BTW. The NZ shorter was similar, yeah sure you could label some of his views far right, but he had a very weird mish mash of views many left leaning

"Tarrant called himself an “ecofascist” promoting “green nationalism,” anti-population growth (excepting Europeans), anti-urbanization and pro-sustainable economic practices. He is pro-union, pro-minimum wage and pro-workers rights (to keep out immigrant labor). And he explicitly rejects conservatism, capitalism, individualism and consumerism. “Conservatism is dead,” he wrote. “Thank God. Now let us bury it and move on to something of worth.”"

ssshhhhhhh

we don't talk about that...

('we' being the collective left that once was...)

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:35pm

Talking to yourself again slippery.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:37pm

Hay Wax24, I've been to the USA five times over the years and my personal experience has been nothing but positive. Practically every American that I've come into contact with have been friendly, happy and nothing but welcoming. I think the US is a great country and we of course we all have problems no matter where we come from. But if anything in my own subjective way, I find Americans are proud and for the most part optimistic towards the future. Quite the contrast to what you may read on here from time to time cobber.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:50pm

'Talking to yourself again slippery.'

certainly not talking to you... I thought we had an arrangement...

again...

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 7:52pm

"anger at women" or incel terrorism is predominantly a right wing thing. ID, if you had any idea about the topic you are discussing, you'd know this.
I actually studied this shit and have written about it for a few publications, and have been to a few conferences.
The anger at women is because young men who can't get laid, blame others for their failings. They typically point the finger at feminists, gays, lesbians, and progressives who steer women away from "trad wife" lifestyles. So yes, it's typically a right wing thing.
Here's the point blokes. Authorities in English speaking western nations take terrorism very seriously and they invest their time and effort in the most pressing areas. There's a reason why they are focussing on right wing terrorism and not left wing terrorism. It's the racist nationalists who are a much bigger threat.
That's something you are just going to have to accept.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:03pm

ok vicvocal, with all your learned edumacation and stuff...

tell me, a number, a percentage, how many people at the capitol riot were 'terrorists'?

gsco's picture
gsco's picture
gsco Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:06pm
zenagain wrote:

Hay Wax24, I've been to the USA five times over the years and my personal experience has been nothing but positive. Practically every American that I've come into contact with have been friendly, happy and nothing but welcoming. I think the US is a great country and we of course we all have problems no matter where we come from. But if anything in my own subjective way, I find Americans are proud and for the most part optimistic towards the future. Quite the contrast to what you may read on here from time to time cobber.

Very easy to have a fantastic time in the US, and I’ve had many, by sticking to nice places and not looking under the carpet. But this is an inaccurate, superficial, naive and biased view of the reality of the country.

The moment you start sniffing and scratching around beneath the surface you immediately run into some horrible foul smells that few other countries have. We don’t want any of that stuff in Australia.

I found, and still find, most Americans to be self-entitled, self-important, self-centred and believe that they and the US are far superior to every other human and country on the planet.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:06pm

and remember that 'right wing terrorist' plot to kidnap an american senator?

talk about that...

enlighten us...

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Saturday, 16 Oct 2021 at 8:07pm
Vic Local wrote:

I actually studied this shit and have written about it for a few publications, and have been to a few conferences.
.

Please god no, and wasn't BB a teacher maybe even university level?

And we had Herc writing about indigenous stuff didn't we?

It's seriously scary that these are the type of people and views that are influencing peoples kids and generally society, it's no wonder shit is getting so messed up.