Australia - you're standing in it

Sheepdog's picture
Sheepdog started the topic in Friday, 18 Sep 2020 at 11:51am

The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:10am

Australia has a very high level of population growth for a developed country and it's no accident.
For decades it's been a lazy way to prop up the economy.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:18am

And a another way of deferring a massive social and economic problem for future generations.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:21am

It’s creating a massive social and economic problem for future generations.

The most massive problem of all.

Short term greed prioritised over a sustainable society and environmental footprint.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:23am

Not only deferring but compounding as far as I can figure out.

san Guine's picture
san Guine's picture
san Guine Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:25am
Blowin wrote:

It’s creating a massive social and economic problem for future generations.

The most massive problem of all.

Short term greed prioritised over a sustainable society and environmental footprint.

But Blowin, how am I going to profit from my vast share portfolio if we don't have more consumption, more development, more people, more everything...

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:34am

I know. How terrible would it be if the lazy population growth model was abandoned and companies had to find innovative and productive ways to make a dollar instead!

Robwilliams's picture
Robwilliams's picture
Robwilliams Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:36am

Maybe squatting in empty properties will become fashionable. Influencers lead the way. You can up grade daily I hear. Great locations abound.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 10:41am

The Dee supporters who own Ski Chalets rented them out for the whole of September after their team won the first 9 games .

Robwilliams's picture
Robwilliams's picture
Robwilliams Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 12:05pm

They might not be interested in the revised edition of holiday squatting for newbies then.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 12:22pm
Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 12:25pm

Who gives a fuck…..simply import more people and economy grows….job done. Yewwww!

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 12:33pm

Comment from The Excellent Macrobusiness Site.

“When our political parties privatise themselves to multinational mineral and fossil fuel companies, where we have ended up is not entirely surprising. The fact that the outcomes we see are not in the interest of the average Australian tax payer let alone the country, should tell you all you need to know about our major parties. And in this I lump labour with the LNP.

We need of the order of 8-12 moderate independents in both houses of parliament to ensure that it is prohibitively hard for vested interests to purchase outcomes. The current parliament is a bunch of rusted on politicians for life who appear only interested in the pursuit and maintenance of political incumbency.“

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 1:32pm

Worthwhile read.

"New public management and why the Commonwealth government can’t do anything anymore"

https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2021/september/1630418400/john-quigg...

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Monday, 13 Sep 2021 at 1:55pm

Andy - you must subscribe to read the article .

On one thread you say the government is to blame for housing not correcting in price . This article seems to indicate they can do no more . Remember we also have State Governments !

Your consistency is consistent .

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 4:47pm

From The Excellent Macrobusiness Site™:

Get ready for the Morrison-Murdoch 2-part “cunning plan” for re-election!

1) Borrow Boris’ UK “Freedom Day” so I, Scotty, promise to free you from State lockdown and border controls; and you forget my incompetence on quarantine and vaccines that locked you down in the first place.

2) Then I distract you with “the drums of war” on China, making inflammatory statements that actually increase the prospect of retaliation from Beijing; you’ll see how hairy-chested I am—instead of implementing the rational, coherent, hard line strategy this country needs.

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 5:06pm

I'll vote for Scott and the Fryd Burger....What has been shit would have been really really shit under Labor and the Greens.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 5:29pm

A leap/vote of faith, brother?

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 5:50pm

birds of a feather and all that

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 6:01pm

Dammit Flip, I clicked cause I thought it was gonna be about the magpie.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 6:30pm

Now Constance thinks we need a rational, coherent hard line on China?

Late membership is always welcome.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 6:50pm

Rational/coherent ©

ProMo's cunning campaign is working its marketing magic already! See Mrs Marsh, it does get in!

Blowin, you oughta be congratulated!

LOL

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 7:00pm

If you could just plainly state your opinion it’d be appreciated. I’m not sure what anyone has to gain by alluding to one’s insights ?

As much as I’m typically poised to agree/ disagree on any given issue, I’m still unsure of what you are trying to say. It’d be really nice , incredible even, if we could not just butt heads out of routine or for the tiny frisson of excitement that might be found in contrary opinion.

I mean that any context of China as a benevolent countervailing force as surely evaporated as soon as China began demanding to see papers on the high seas they unilaterally claim as sovereign territory?

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 6:59pm

speaking of china...

maybe this all a is part of murdoch's scotty from marketing marketing campaign...

or, maybe china are just bigger, uglier, and even more ruthlesser cunts than many dared imagine...

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/chinese-defector-wei-ji...

either way, seems trump was a little negligent... which should give the still deranged (...still!!?...) something to distract themeslves with...

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 7:07pm

I'll vote for the best of a pretty ordinary bunch....that's my duty...Id love to vote for a party that wants to put every Australian in a home of their own, which I know is easy to do...but too hard for 5 houses negative gear Albo.... If you can pay rent, you can pay off a house if land is available which we happen to have lots of....I'd also like to vote for a party that loves nature ...but that's hard when the so called nature party doesn't even know what their arse is for.....Then there's the conservatives..whom I'm stuck voting for because even though many say they are Christians, and they can do the budget OK, they still forget that everyone deserves a home and and the very planet we live on needs protecting as God designed it......naturally....So choose wisely for the best of a rough bunch or get into it yourselves and do better...there is room.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 15 Sep 2021 at 9:19pm

Sypkan He said it was not Trump that he alerted . It seams that there were a lot of people in many different senior positions who didn't like and possibly kept him in the dark . FBI , CIA , CDC , Military and the White House .

From what I have read over the past months Biden will be a lot more worried than Trump what this guy can reveal . The only problem will be keeping him alive . China want him dead as do many in the US .

This guy can bring down more important people that Epstein .

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 7:40am
Optimist wrote:

I'll vote for Scott and the Fryd Burger....What has been shit would have been really really shit under Labor and the Greens.

I was originally just going to say something like 100%.

Let's forget the Greens they are irrelevant to any conversation.

But how would have Labor handled Covid?

As much as i prefer the less woke LNP, Labor would have done things pretty much exactly the same.

Borders closing= Off course had to happen and it was like a row of dominos, would have happened at best a few days earlier or latter, would have made no difference.

States overseeing quarantine= Would have happened, would be crazy for the government to try to handle things, would have been a set up for failure and states would have complained and attacked the government.

Hotel quarantine= Would have happened, its the only real option and what countries most developed countries around the world used, i doubt they would have built any quarantine centres, by the time they were finished we would have been in the situation we are now, and long term they would have never realistically because covid isn't going anywhere and it is/was never realistic to think it could be kept out long term, BTW. Labor in NZ also found it and unviable option.

Vaccines= Would have happened exactly the same, AZ on paper was always the best vaccine option, can be made in Australia so good for Australia didnt need to be stored at super low temps, and not mRMA tech.

The rate at which we could secure Pfizer supplies wouldn't have been any different, just look at NZ they needed far less and also couldn't secure them earlier, it's just common sense the countries that have Covid running rampant and high deaths rates were always going to be first in line and those countries like Aust & NZ without Covid and low death rates last in line.

Financial assistance= Would have been very similar, only real difference is they would have also tried to help the arts and music industry, but building industry would have been the focus with a scheme similar to stimulate building, only difference maybe the spending would be bigger.

And yeah off course the government are going to use all the things they can to get re-elected and time and election to align with a positive period, would be pretty stupid not too.

And its also 100% guaranteed the opposition will run a negative campaign based on misnomers like those assertions posted above, any opposition would, LNP just need to be smart in combating the negatives and educate the public on what is misinformation and why and then focus on the positives.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 7:50am

Indo - We know how Labor handled Covid in Victoria . Our death rates are the highest per capita ( disclaimer ) due to the Hotel quarantining disaster .

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 7:50am

Hard, actually impossible, to say without employing a triple booster dose of confirmation bias.

Much like you two have.

EDIT: You three.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 8:06am

Great news about the Subs if it supersedes the previous Substandard decision on choice of subs . Will check later as too busy now .

san Guine's picture
san Guine's picture
san Guine Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 8:08am
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake's picture
Westofthelake Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 8:46am

"The rate at which we could secure Pfizer supplies wouldn't have been any different,"

Are you sure about that Indo?

"According to Swan, Pfizer told the Australian Government that the company would provide any number of vaccines, yet the offer was rejected.
Three sources told Swan that the Federal Government sent an inexperienced procurement officer to the meeting who “started nickel and diming on the costs”.

So the great economic managers (Ha!) were more concerned about penny pinching then actually moving forwards with a viable solution for reducing the impact of a pandemic.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/governments-appalling-error-rejects-offer...

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 8:58am
stunet wrote:

Hard, actually impossible, to say without employing a triple booster dose of confirmation bias.

Much like you two have.

EDIT: You three.

Ripping yarns from the troika ....

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 9:24am
san Guine wrote:

Blokes you can trust...

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/christian-porter-blind-trust-lega...

Twiggy Forrest is likely the payer of the Legal Bill

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 10:03am
Westofthelake wrote:

"The rate at which we could secure Pfizer supplies wouldn't have been any different,"

Are you sure about that Indo?

"According to Swan, Pfizer told the Australian Government that the company would provide any number of vaccines, yet the offer was rejected.
Three sources told Swan that the Federal Government sent an inexperienced procurement officer to the meeting who “started nickel and diming on the costs”.

So the great economic managers (Ha!) were more concerned about penny pinching then actually moving forwards with a viable solution for reducing the impact of a pandemic.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/governments-appalling-error-rejects-offer...

Not only that westo but deals getting done with other countries now, how much are we paying ? Spend a $ to save a dime , might be a major backfire. Bean counters nightmare.

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 10:29am

"Dammit Flip, I clicked cause I thought it was gonna be about the magpie."

Apologies for the disappointment Zen.

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 10:34am

Optimist unfortunately you are right about a bad bunch.

Interesting that you single out one Labor politician for having negative geared properties and seem to overlook the 77 politicians in the LNP who fought tooth and nail at the last election to keep in place the tax system that makes the idea of owning multiple properties a reality.

Here in Queensland, the one of the first things the state LNP did when they got into power was to abolish the tree clearing laws set up by Labor. The Nationals want to dam just about any river and clear any forest that gets in the way of growing the agricultural sector. Safe to say that the coalition don’t give a rats about your Gods earth. Unless of course there is away to monetise it

As for balancing a budget, that Mining Super Profits tax they scrapped would have come in handy around about now. I guess a few more snips to education and science research funding will have to do the trick instead.

Agree that the Greens are a hopeless bunch but picking the Nationals (LNP) for a better outcome with the environment seems to be quite bizarre

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 10:47am

Regarding the pandemic...Both parties stuffed up. Labor and the greens were calling the Govt racist for stopping flights from China at the very beginning of the plague which would have made the beginning of this even worse and Morrison should have handed the whole thing to the armed forces for security and their medical divisions to plan and handle the rest from the beginning so no politics or favours to different members and states could have occurred. All our so called health ministers everywhere were unable to handle the task together on a national level but we are getting there finally...It could have been done much better there’s no doubt.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 12:09pm
stunet wrote:

Hard, actually impossible, to say without employing a triple booster dose of confirmation bias.

Much like you two have.

EDIT: You three.

Bias?...im actually kind of defending Labor, i dont think they would have stuffed up as would have just followed the obvious route needed.

Only area the might have stuffed up with is getting sucked into building quarantine centre for Victoria that would most likely end up over budget and be half finished right now.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 12:22pm
Supafreak wrote:
Westofthelake wrote:

"The rate at which we could secure Pfizer supplies wouldn't have been any different,"

Are you sure about that Indo?

"According to Swan, Pfizer told the Australian Government that the company would provide any number of vaccines, yet the offer was rejected.
Three sources told Swan that the Federal Government sent an inexperienced procurement officer to the meeting who “started nickel and diming on the costs”.

So the great economic managers (Ha!) were more concerned about penny pinching then actually moving forwards with a viable solution for reducing the impact of a pandemic.

https://www.michaelwest.com.au/governments-appalling-error-rejects-offer...

Not only that westo but deals getting done with other countries now, how much are we paying ? Spend a $ to save a dime , might be a major backfire. Bean counters nightmare.

Actually it wasn't all about the money, its also about.

1. Having a vaccine that can be made here big plus for practicability and supporting Aussie jobs..
2. Having a vaccine that is logically easy to roll out and doesn't need to be stored at super low temps.
3. Having a vaccine that was going to have the least scepticism attached to it, standard vaccine apossed to mRMA vaccine

Unfortunately AZ got the bad wrap, but as we know its actually looking to be one of the better vaccines lasting longer than others.

Yeah early days when demand was low it would have been a possibility to get supplies, but it wouldn't have made much sense on paper I'm sure Labor would have thought the same, but not once AZ really got demonised and didn't blow over and other countries with Covid running rampant and high death rates needed to swap vaccines, demand and supply would have obviously changed very quickly sending us to the back of the line.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Thursday, 16 Sep 2021 at 12:35pm

Putting all the eggs in one basket hasn’t helped , got to question why Professor Petrovsky and Flinders Uni were brushed from funding , they could have used ( and did ask ) for the 53 million that was going to Qld uni until they scrubbed it . Petrovsky having to get funding from Iran to continue what may be the best vaccine yet . An American company is also now using A.I. to design a new vaccine. If Petrovsky’s claims that his new vaccine prevents infection and transmission , then it certainly will be a game changer.Unfortunately this governments lack of interest has slowed the process. Results from 10,000 patient studies should be out in November. Another plus would be more faith in an Australian designed and locally made vaccine.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 12:29pm

Sweet baby cheeses, did I post this above:

"Get ready for the Morrison-Murdoch 2-part “cunning plan” for re-election!

2) Then I distract you with “the drums of war” on China, making inflammatory statements that actually increase the prospect of retaliation from Beijing; you’ll see how hairy-chested I am—instead of implementing the rational, coherent, hard line strategy this country needs."

NEK MINNIT...

ProMo's junking their 90 billion sub deal, and now wedding us in a "forever" daddy and mommy deal with the US, UK and fucking nuclear subs?!

FFS!

Did someone else post elsewhere in that dumb-ass 'Vax Not' thread: "Scumo is the most incompetent PM in Australian history. He can't win without the "shit for brains" vote"?!

N(f)SS*!

Read this and vote accordingly! Don't be the (direct or proxy) "shit-for-brains" voter! No excuses.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2021/09/16/michael-pascoe-government-...

*No fucking shit, Sherlock!

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 12:50pm

You think that Scomo convinced the President of the USA and the Prime Minister of the UK to intervene and issue propoganda to help Scotty get re-elected?

Particularly considering that Biden literally did not know Scomo’s name?

Mate, this is the US inveigling Australia into the oncoming confrontation with China which we were never going to avoid anyway. They just handed Scotty the deputy badge and got him to swear up for whatever adventure they have planned.

That’s why Empty Chair Albanese was also in on the meeting. The US gives zero fucks which of our two shiteful “leaders” is sitting in the cardboard throne when time comes to load our country up with US military hardware as the proxy battleground for the conflict. The US loves wars…..as long as they’re in someone else’s backyard.

Looks like Australia got the short straw.

It was always going to happen.

Ironically enough it actually makes it easier to vote for the ALP now that their submission to China is harder to parade. Albo has hooked up with Biden and that’s that.

Was an excellent article by Pascoe. The LNP need putting in the stocks.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 12:55pm

Hutchy, sorry Blowin, short answer to your own cooked up question - you think that Scomo convinced the President of the USA and the Prime Minister of the UK to intervene and issue propoganda [sic] to help Scotty get re-elected? - NO.

As for the rest...Hutchy, wanna get involved? Murder She Wrote doesn't start for another hour or so? I've got a meeting.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 1:07pm

The whole idea that Scomo has conceptualised a khaki election gets wobbly when it’s obvious that this deal with the US has been months in the issuing and is completely driven by the US. Scotty might’ve seen a bit of political opportunism to hitch his re election chances to it but that’s coincidental as his election window is in the immediate future regardless.

It’s not a cunning plan by Morrison and Murdoch, it’s the only reaction possible when our masters in the US hand down the script we are to follow.

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 1:24pm

I disagree, I think Scott re engineered an old ideal and it was the only way we were ever going to feel secure with modern China roaming around the Pacific. I doubt sleepy Joe would have conceived it. All credit to him and the tech sharing and subs is a master stroke as the Chinese will never really know when their missile payload changes type and where and when a silent running sub could pop up and so will be more well behaved....All bullshit really but that's the way the world plays this stupid game......balance.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 1:55pm
Blowin wrote:

The whole idea that Scomo has conceptualised a khaki election gets wobbly when it’s obvious that this deal with the US has been months in the issuing and is completely driven by the US. Scotty might’ve seen a bit of political opportunism to hitch his re election chances to it but that’s coincidental as his election window is in the immediate future regardless.

It’s not a cunning plan by Morrison and Murdoch, it’s the only reaction possible when our masters in the US hand down the script we are to follow.

Completely ridiculous to even think or suggest any Aussie PM would ever have that much sway to help out some election they couldn't care less what the result are..

But there it is at clearly suggested @ 12:29PM
And there it is denied @12:55PM

?????

I guess he didnt know post are now limited to 10 minutes for edits.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 2:02pm

Still spinning out at the sub decision here. This is a good overview of the Collins class (24kts mentioned, 3mins per 24 hour snorkel time required), one could assume the French diesel-electric would be a jump in capability on top of this and a real threat.

Nuclear boats are a step up again, but how long to build and commission, learning curve for maintaining, how to transition from current fleet, what difference in role? One of those times I wish I had extra information. Edit: generally approve based on increased capability.

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 2:07pm

15 to 20 years to build ........and by then probably out dated

Roker's picture
Roker's picture
Roker Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 2:20pm

I will live in Montana and I will drive a pickup truck.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Friday, 17 Sep 2021 at 2:52pm

A wonderful decision to change from the old Substandard Sub agreement . Would say the same if the Greens made it .

It doesn't matter how long it takes as long as we get the best subs . Our wonderful submariners will be ready and willing when they arrive . The subs will have all the latest technology when they arrive . The same as the US and UK .

Fuck the Chinese . Their leadership couldn't hate us anymore anyway . They will do everything they can to screw us and will do the same to everyone else . It is all about them and always will be .

Xi Jinping is in total power now . He has made his intentions crystal clear . Taiwan is in imminent danger with no support from Biden likely . Milley has already called them and reassured them the coast is clear . What a traitor .

Australia has to get tech ready for the future when China is the World superpower . They are not ahead of the US militarily yet . I hope they don't go too far past them in the next 20 years . By that time we will need a few of the latest nuclear rockets in our subs pointed at the Chinese to make them think twice about smashing us . If they could get away with it now they would do it in a heart beat .

The only solution I can see is that the entire world blockades them . No one buys anything from them or sells anything to them . Lock them out of the world financial and technology system .No calls in or out .No travel in or out . Every country nationalises all their overseas assets . We take Darwin port and all our land an water rights back . Give them one year to get themselves and us ready . This would hurt them .

Who has the balls to do that ?