Vaccinate or not

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak started the topic in Tuesday, 24 Nov 2020 at 6:20pm

I was a little shocked at Alan Joyce (CEO Qantas) announcement that international travelers will be required to have a covid 19 vaccination in order to travel on Qantas flights . The government wanted to have mandatory vaccination but after the bumbling of its release ( it was painful to watch the delivery of that announcement ) they withdrew the mandatory part but it seems Qantas and other business may demand a vaccination in order to use their services. I’m not anti vaccine by any means I just don’t trust this government or a vaccine that has been rushed through. A jab followed by another jab followed by yearly jabs doesn’t sit well with me as I have never had a flu shot or the flu for more than 20 years. Plus I don’t want to give this shot to my healthy 4 year old daughter. She is up to date with all her vaccinations but this covid vaccine is new and not being around for decades like the others. Tuberculosis remains the number one as far diseases go and you don’t need proof of vaccination to travel so what is going on ?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Wednesday, 28 Jul 2021 at 8:50pm

Fully vaxxed with Pfizer. No reaction other than a mild full-body rash for a few days after the second jab. Oh and a pretty decent dead arm too.

 

views from the cockpit's picture
views from the cockpit's picture
views from the ... Wednesday, 28 Jul 2021 at 8:56pm

All power to Numbnuts progeny.
Vaxxed here -all good.

etarip's picture
etarip's picture
etarip Wednesday, 28 Jul 2021 at 9:18pm

Fully vax’d Pfizer. No real side effects after shot 1 and none other than a slight dead arm and felt a bit more tired than usual after shot 2.

Co-worker was proper fkd day after Pfizer shot #2, lying on floor of his office for an hour until he could get himself home. Had a day off then back to normal. He’s a fit bloke but skinny as a rake. Maybe that had something to do with it.

mibs-oner's picture
mibs-oner's picture
mibs-oner Wednesday, 28 Jul 2021 at 9:37pm

You couldn’t pay me to be a guinea pig in this trial

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Wednesday, 28 Jul 2021 at 11:06pm

I've been AZ-ed, first shot only

felt fine straight after, drove home, at home started feeling dizzy and the most killer dead arm ever, but dizzyness came good after a while. that night had some chills whilst in bed but felt generally fine and woke up ok, a couple of hours later started feeling crook all over, bit hot and cold, and desperately needed sleep, slept a bit when I could, but was busy with young child so not ideal, 36 hours later I felt fine

the old 'bad flu' type reaction

for the record, I have had a few vaccines, the usual kid ones, but a few extras for travel

never had any reaction, always thought crew that complain about vaccine reactions were a bit hypersensitive and wussy...

I don't want to start on the politics of it all again, but there's something about this virus and it's vaccines. ...not conspiracy nutty stuff, but either its the virus is super strong/worriesome/contagious, so correspondingly, doses are significantly higher, or maybe it's the rudimentary, still refining, nature of new vaccines...

I find it most interestimg that a 'respiratory disease' that behaves 'unusual' with 'never seen that before' fast blood clotting, and attacks on other organs in the body, is doing the same thing in the vaccine experiences ...maybe that's just how stuff works, and is to be totally expected...

but considering the above, it is also interesting from a 'respiratory disease' that is quite deadly (and possibly only deadly...) to people with diabetes, blood conditions, heart conditions, and obesity... again, somewhat to be expected I guess, but the connections seem to be more than just a casual one...

and re. AZ vaccine, apparently if your family has a history of blood clots and deep vein thrombosis, you should avoid it altogether

Im definitely not antivax, but geez there's some questions to be asked about this whole shit show...

and the media, governments, and medical machines have done themselves no favours peddling disinformation whilst vehemently policing supposed 'misinformation'

like everything in contemporary politics, the overzealous endeavour from some quarters to 'control the narrative', seems to have resulted in, a total disasterous loss of control of the narrative...

cue cartoon, man hits own face with wood...

again...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Wednesday, 28 Jul 2021 at 11:41pm

"I'm really surprised at how many old fashioned conservative people there are on this site. So trusting of government directive. So law abiding, so fearful.

I will keep eating well, maintain high levels of fitness, wash my hands, maintain social distancing and wear a mask. Im probably protected as best I can to avoid colds, flus, and multiple mutations of any virus. If I get sick I won't be going to work or out and about. People hate on me for wearing a mask, seriously, you choose to get a vaccine, good onya, it's not for me. Both have pros and cons.

I will have the stronger long term multigenerational outcome."

interesting use of 'conservative', when it's supposedly the 'right wingers' who are antivax...

so interesting, how it's 'the left', who are now generally trusting of government and big pharma on this particular issue...

politics is all over the shop, not disagreeing with anything you say, ...just interesting...

"Nothing to do with fear or being law abiding here.

Just a rational weighing up of risk versus reward, both for me and the rest of the community."

that's me too, if I was in my normal situation in oz, I'd probably do a numbatt, whilst I delay as long as possible, because I lead a quiet existence, far from the issues, but I need it to travel, so I weigh up the risks and rewards...

and the risk isn't that high from my perspective, but tbh, it seems neither is the reward really, but ya do what ya gotta do

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 7:04am

well this is a worry on the vaccine front ......

san Guine's picture
san Guine's picture
san Guine Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 8:00am

Hey Blowin,

This may help you and your family navigate the health care system (but advice for all Swellnetters who end up with loved one in hospital):

1. Nominate 1 person as the point of contact for the medical staff regarding your mother. This will minimise miscommunication.
2. Clarify your mothers resuscitation (NFR)status. Obviously a hard conversation between family members and needs to be respectful of your mothers wishes. Is your mother 'competent' to make decisions about her care? This is always a conversation best had with family members prior to a hospital admission, but usually not had until there is a crisis.
3.There are varying levels of NFR; full resus; not for CPR, but for intubation; not for intubation but for NIV and inotropes; Ward based management only; symptom management only.
4. Be aware that medical futility can override point 3. That is, that despite patient/family wishes, if the patients' co-morbidities and deterioration are irreversible then any further medical interventions may cause more harm than good to the patient and consequently treatment can be withdrawn. You absolutely need to be involved in this conversation, this is worst case scenario.
5. Find out who the treating team is. eg Gastroenterology, Cardiology, Get Med etc.
6. From point 1, ask to speak to medical staff (ie. the treating team) to get a working diagnosis.
7.If there is no diagnosis ask for differential diagnoses ie. what might the problem be?
8. If you don't understand the medical diagnosis, ask the treating team to explain it to you in clear, easily understood language. This is your right, if the Intern does not give you a satisfactory answer, ask to speak to the Registrar, if no help from the Reg, ask to speak to the Consultant.
9. From point 1, if you choose to be the nominated contact then you must be the advocate for your mother, that is, do what is in her best interests- in consultation with other family members, of course.

WRT resuscitation status (NFR status), be aware how brutal CPR can be, just last week I performed CPR on an elderly patient and I could felt their ribs breaking as I did it.

garyg1412's picture
garyg1412's picture
garyg1412 Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 8:06am

207976000-10216096183357590-8601981545987024300-n

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 12:49pm

UK Freedom Day (Translation: Boris is throwing all his Vax & Test kits in the bin).

UK Govt (Data credit)
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/vaccinations

Freedom Day (Onward)
UK Vaccination rates divebombed to lowest on record > Cases Dropped by half
UK tests plummeted by Half > Cases fell by Half...

UK Hospital Rates / Admissions / Vents keep on soaring

UK Govt claim vaccination rates > 1st Dose 86.4% > 91.4% + 2nd Dose 61.2% > 72.7%

UK Govt Map > UK urban City centres ( Current Vax Rates Doses 1% / 2%)
(Note these are largest lowest most central City reads > City's highest Vax enclaves also struggle to hit 50%)

Sheffield 34/13 Leeds 35/14 Durham 49/15 Newcastle 38/17 Nottingham 41/18 Oxford 49/18 Manchester 37/19 Birmingham 41/20 Nottingham 41/20 Leicester40/21 Coventry 40/21 Liverpool 39/23 Bristol 55/23 Bradford 39/25 Cambridge Wolverhampton 40/26 Southampton 51/27 Luton 49/28 London 35/28 Middlesbrough 45/29 Peterborough 46/29 Hull 48/30 Reading 49/30 York 59/31 Northampton 49/31 Norwich 49/32 Brighton 54/34 Huddersfield 49/36 Bath 63/37 Ipswich 58/45

Australia > States (mixed) Lowest to highest 1/2 reads 28/21) More than quite a few UK city centres.

Crew might wanna consider with such pathetically low vax rates that UK simply gave up trying to vax.
Crew may continue to believe that a handfull of county Vaxerz outnumber the rat race Hesitants.
Note covid is seldom in the UK CBD's & all Lowest Vax Cities currently rate as lowest cases.
Lowest vaxed Sheffield CBD never changed to a deeper shade of Covid all year long.

In fact the higher vaxed / infected county folk cordon every city > Like Triffids spluttering more infection.
Lead scientists : " Peak Rollout incubators infect more covid with their increased coughing & sneezing."
Lead Scientists : " Vaccinated instantly feel invincible & demand free reign."
Lead Scientists : " Just a fleeting hint of Delta > Vaccinated spew pleasant Delta over the cityscape."

Wealthy white privileged VIP's that boss everyone around & lie, cheat & bully the world to get their way.
tbb: "No! Haven't seen any of them about!" (Shaking!)) "No misinformation 'round here... Sir!"

PS: During Data review UK Govt altered Vax rates (by Heaps) & delayed Freedom cases / Hospital Stats
Vax rates are highly political & are often prone to massive manipulation & censorship. (That's a solid fact)
UK Govt review...above, shows Vax rates closer to 50% than 100%. (Which govt Stats are correct?)

frog's picture
frog's picture
frog Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 4:10pm

Lots of data, statements and facts can be overwhelming. Keeping it simple....

Cases are influenced by testing rate, so apparent peaks and falls can be driven by tends in testing trends not just infection rates.

Deaths are somewhat more of a direct measure of trends and cause and effect.

India's huge spike is deaths in April / May seemed self limiting and has settled to much lower levels (two thirds of the population now have antibodies - so not surprising - it has already swept through much of the population).

In higher vaccination rate counties the current spike in cases has not had a proportional spike in deaths.

This suggests:
- vaccination helps reduce severity of health impacts.
- covid let to run fairly or totally loose in a region or country creates a short term very difficult period for the population and medical system but the overall impact is not as bleak as the initial spikes seem to hint at.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 4:12pm

@Guy

Bit of an update on the mandatory age care vaccine thing.

My wife's boss that is strongly opposed to the vaccine (thinks its experimental, blah blah blah) was in the process of quitting her job because she thought she had to get the vaccine, she even sent out an official email to staff that she is quitting and put an add in paper for position.

But apparently she then contacted the government department and they said its up to each aged care facility if they make it mandatory or not, she also contacted a lawyer who said there is no law to support it being mandatory so unless her facility does she is all good, and doesn't have to get it.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 4:26pm

Goodo info, I saw the tail end of something Dan Andrews was saying on the subject which seems to confirm what you have been saying .... I think what he was saying there is some legal problem atm that stops them mandating the jab atm. We both need to watch this space, suspect it will happen across the sector, in all types of facilities as I previously listed. Your wife’s boss sounds a right royal nutter.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 5:13pm

Hey Blowin, our best wishes to your Mum, and family. Hope the situation improves. The medics are legends.

San guine a good comment there too, great guidance.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 5:38pm

Ha ha yeah she does sound like a nutter...imagine seriously considering quitting a job you are happy in because of a vaccine.

Only met her a few times but she actually otherwise seemed 100% normal and real nice and been a real good boss for my wife, never can tell sometimes.

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 5:56pm

Vax Spring Rollout Special Menu...( Barefoot Mutant Slaves Welcome )
No 36 . Initial Scomo GP Vax chat & Noodles = $225 > (w/e surcharge $250 )
No 23 . 2nd Scomo GP Vax chat & Prawn Crackers = $80 > ( Sat $100 / Sun $120 )
Free Vaccine with each Scomo GP Chat.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-29/greg-hunt-slams-campsie-gp-for-ch...

upnorth's picture
upnorth's picture
upnorth Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 6:19pm

From David Aaronovitch, interesting take on the anti vax movement. FWIW I've had both AZ, bit ropey after the first, fine after the second. Of those I know who have had both - family, friends, neighbours, colleagues etc young and old, all fine.

"She seemed to me intoxicated, the woman framed by the National Gallery and a giant TV screen, parading up and down with a microphone in her hand. Intoxicated not with alcohol but with the event for which she was acting as master of ceremonies. She loved the crowd gathered for the “Freedom Rally” in Trafalgar Square last weekend, and they were loving her right back.

Which may explain why she got carried away. In between speakers she condemned those who had been dispensing Covid vaccines. “Get their names!” she yelled. “Email them to me! With a group of lawyers, we are collecting all that.” Then she added: “At the Nuremberg Trials, the doctors and nurses stood trial and they hung. If you are a doctor or a nurse, now is the time to get off that bus… and stand with us the people.”

Us the people, as measured by any poll I’ve ever seen, are very unlikely to see the staff of vaccination centres as heirs to mass-murdering Nazi doctors. And ex-nurse Kate Shemirani’s invocation has earned her notoriety and, apparently, an investigation by the Met.

But it went down well with her several thousand homies in the square. Which was disconcerting to anyone watching pictures of the crowd, because, with a few exceptions, they looked normal. Not as though they’d just escaped from the middle of an End is Nigh sandwich board. But like you, dear reader.

I was struck by the serendipity of this all taking place as the congressional inquiry opened into the storming of the US Capitol on January 6. Because it seemed to me that the same strange combination of conspiracy theorism, New Age egoism, far-right activism and insurgent mentality characterised both events, except one had developed more quickly and more violently than the other. And if this seems pessimistic, I will explain.

Just over ten years ago, at the end of the pre-social media age, I wrote a book on the history and psychology of conspiracy theories. Back then I analysed them as having distinct strands of narrative, which rarely came together. There were the theories that attached themselves to very specific catastrophes, such as the death of Diana or the attack on the Twin Towers. Usually these would not require an overarching mega-theory. Then there were the (I thought) far crazier theories about malign actors seeking world domination and active in almost everything. These would encompass notions about the Illuminati, the New World Order, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Bilderbergers and the Trilateral Commission. Most of those would involve the Rothschilds and at the very least would suggest a degree of Jewish involvement.

I majored on these categories and largely ignored the third, which are centred on paranoid fantasies about how the authorities want to poison or control us. Most of these fantasies seemed to be highly individual and unorganised. Misguided and anti-scientific neuroses about microwaves, fluoride in the water, chemtrails and phone towers came and went. The big exception was the Andrew Wakefield fraud over the MMR vaccination. And then finally, there is one I didn’t recognise as a category at all: “they” are coming for our kids.

What is new about the anti-vax, anti-lockdown, “freedom” movement as it was on display last weekend in London is that it is a portmanteau, an almanac, of all these movements and ideas. As far as I could tell, the people there and many of those expressing online support were signed up to an assortment of these notions — almost a new ideology of how things happen.

The cast of speakers introduced by Shemirani gives an idea of the field. There were a couple of ex-Ukip candidates and the increasingly desperate Katie Hopkins. For medical expertise they produced Dr Vernon Coleman, an elderly ex-GP who used to write tabloid articles in the 1980s about how Aids was a hoax and now argues that Covid is a hoax. He turned out to be the childhood GP of another speaker, Gareth Icke, the son of the antisemitic cultist David Icke (and therefore the grandson of the Godhead). Icke provided the finale after Piers Corbyn (brother of the other Godhead) had done his turn.

But what intrigued me was the presence on stage of a Jaclyn Dunne. Dunne was introduced as a “holistic health practitioner”. Apparently she has a diploma in hypnotherapy and runs a company called Mind Body Detox in Essex. Her involvement chimed with many of the placards at the rally. “Truth, Health, Freedom”; “Hands off our children”; “My Body, My Choice”; “When Tyranny Becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty” and “Hoax”. The combination here mirrors the QAnon mega conspiracy theory in the US that animated many of those who stormed the Capitol and is even supported by at least one Republican member of Congress. And I am worried that it has the same capacity to cause mayhem and violence.

On its fringes spring up people, as seen at some lockdown protests, who are members of the new far right. These are not the old fascists who believed in a strong, national state, but an anarchist breed who advocate vigilante violence against opponents. And further on the fringes are the lone wolves, the kind of people who tire of waiting for Nuremberg.

We can all argue about what causes people to endorse dangerous conspiracy theories and to become conduits for damaging disinformation. It’s a lucrative business, I dare say, for someone like Gareth Icke, who is unlikely to share his bestselling father’s psychopathology. Others may be seeking to rationalise the experience and losses of the last 18 months and deserve our sympathy. Yet others are the kind of people who are always seeking causes and looking for fights, often motivated by an aggressive sense of wounded entitlement. Then there are those who, though seeming ordinary, have attained a higher state of consciousness — like the woman who carried a placard that read “We’re the Lions in a World of Sheep”.

The most serious threats from this new movement are widespread disinformation (mostly pseudoscience) and violence. A determined culture of countering disinformation — as embraced by the BBC and by newspapers employing specialist data journalists — is more useful even than social media takedowns. It just needs to be spread.

The violence I don’t have an easy answer for. Certainly we should be intolerant of language that incites hatred and we have to hope the police and security services have their eye on this new ball. A sentiment that may earn me my own place in a speech or two at the next Freedom Rally."

frog's picture
frog's picture
frog Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 7:37pm

Over the past decade I have seen numerous things labelled conspiracy theories by MSM and various political players that turned out to be fact. Mainly in the areas of finance and geopolitics. The label can be used to distract, deflect, deflate and dismiss unwanted / awkward information.

Some of the origins of the Qanon thingo were that people observed conspiracy become fact too often. But this small trend developed a life of its own and was mixed with quite funny jokes people somehow took seriously (lizard people), mischief makers, fools as well as dangerous people, nasty trolls, psy ops state and geopolitical players and finally a social media desire for shock.

Now it is all so messed up it is ridiculous. The pool of fools has overwhelmed most forums (not SN) to the point the discussion is just irritating. ZH ten years ago was fascinating and informative web site. Posters there were often smart and well informed ..... not now.

It is still worth remembering that the label "conspiracy theory" may be something hiding a truth someone does not want you to know. But now it is mostly crap or there are so many layers of misdirection it is tedious to explore issues that used to interest me.

Peek down rabbit holes if you must but not too often or for too long if you want some peace of mind.

saltyone's picture
saltyone's picture
saltyone Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 8:16pm

Ah this is great ! Wise doctor

saltyone's picture
saltyone's picture
saltyone Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 8:32pm

Yes frog it’s true and ALOT of money was allocated at the start of this pandemic to deal with “ conspiracy “ and “misinformation “ in the form of censorship- factcheckers ( many hundreds of youths from third world countries), as well as media outlets and their journalists . As Julian Assange said once - “What does censorship reveal? It reveals fear”.
Sadly too many people fail to question and do their own research and think for themselves. Seems to be an ever growing problem .Why? Perhaps laziness ?Or apprehension or fear of what they might find ? Or that their belief may be shattered? Or just too busy taking selfies and seeing how many likes they got??!

Journalism used to be about exploring different sides , asking questions and not blindly following what came out of a politicians mouth. How times are changing ! Sad!

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 8:32pm

Never met anyone committing to vax nor met any Anti Vaxerz.
Current Vax Hesitancy is born from incoherent Science & condescending Govt...no one else!
In fact it's been noted that both these drawbacks bring all camps together in total agreement.
More open & honest authors in Vax or Not Forum are more likely to persuade tbb to vax.

Yes agree Velocityjohnno ...vital frontline advice san Guine...thanx for sharing.

PS: Oz Hospital Crisis... re: Respiratory Clinic/s
san Guine ...following up on previous (Respiratory Sleep Studies referral/s - Clinical talk only)
Every 2 months (3x) Hospital phones tbb for next night Sleep Study & then cancel the very next day.
Just yesterday arvo the Hospital again invited tbb for a Sleep Study Tonite...(3rd time lucky!) Stoked!

tbb again sanitised all personal CPAP gear for his Hospital sleep out...
After last 2 recent cancellations ...thought it be best to phone & confirm with same staff in Sleep Clinic.
Clinic : "Say wot...Nope! No appointment tonite!"

The Mop Up Sleep Crew hovers over tbb's husk.
Rival Sandman paints Goldie Hospital CPAP DJs as creepy / pervy Freddy Krueger time bandits ...
https://www.sleepclinicservices.com/sleep-clinic-gold-coast
Thanx...Now tbb is sleep test hesitant...

tbb had 2x surgery ordered & cancelled + now a dozen appointments cancelled + booted off specialists.
Hospital has shifted from quarterly Consult / Tests & Checks to Annual [Telehealth]
tbb is thankful of any rehabilitation paid for or free & this is not a complaint but a dose of reality.
Gold Coast Hospital has been closing all doors & now eliminate all mail & phone replies...
Can't envisage a return to outpatient care...those days are over. (Pay for yer own recovery now!)

Oz lives thru Covid crisis but many including tbb feel Oz Hospital Crisis is a much larger Catastrophe.
(Good Health to all.)

saltyone's picture
saltyone's picture
saltyone Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 9:14pm

Yes I agree with tbb that was informative San Guine .I copied it down today for future reference .
Cheers tbb for all the data and information you provide it’s very helpful . Appreciate the effort.
That sucks re your appointments I hope you can find alternatives . I agree with you re hospital crisis and I think there is definitely a lack of balance that needs to be sorted!
Good health to you too

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 10:42pm
freeride76 wrote:

Anyone else had the AZ vaccine?

FR I have had AZ along with everyone in my street ( a lot of oldies) only know of one aversive reaction (72 year old chills / shakes / day in bed) everyone else, wife and I included no issues out side of the flu shot like sore arm.

I wonder if there is variations between batches.

PS nursing home Mum is in all residents have had the vax staff have told me there were no issues, they thought there would be but nada.

saltyone's picture
saltyone's picture
saltyone Thursday, 29 Jul 2021 at 11:13pm

I know of some who have had mild reactions to AZ but I also met a lady ( aged about 60) who told me she had shingles all over her head and parts of her body from it. She said it was very painful.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 4:13am

I know of 7 people who’ve had the AstraZeneca.

Mum and Dad ( 76 / 78 ) - Mum hospitalised, Dad mild headaches.

Mother in law ( 83) - Crook as a dog for 2 days. Developed cellulitis -just like our brave federal health ministry when he tried to show how harmless the vaccine is!

Couple next door( 60ish) - him slight headaches, her fine.

Partner’s uncle (84) - dead within 4 days after otherwise healthy.

Mate from surfing ( fit 51) - ruined for 72 hours.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 5:36am

Nearly everyone in my wife’s village ( near kubu , Bali ) is sick now with flu like symptoms. I asked my wife if they were getting tested for covid and she said no . Some are fully vaccinated with AZ some nothing . My wife’s father is a priest and balian and they will go to him before they even think about seeing a doctor . A few older people have died, all with pre existing conditions. It’s going to get rough for alot of people. https://coconuts.co/bali/news/bali-sees-its-deadliest-pandemic-month-yet...

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 6:03am

Blowy, There's no doubt the vaccine is heavy, but the full strength disease is worse. I was fine but tired for a couple of days and my wife got chills at the end of the day after working but she should have rested and not worked after getting a shot...You have to take it easy for a while and also make sure they inject it high on your shoulder so it goes into all muscle and dissipates slowly. I'm going to finish my course and then never touch it again as my body will know what that Chinese man made spike protein looks like now and I'll leave it at that...Sorry to hear about your mum, my 85 year old mum felt a bit ordinary after her second shot but is good as gold now, hopefully your old girl will bounce back fine as well. It's quite possible the Astra vacc will end up the hero over the others in the long term for its T cell production and the clever Israelis have developed a pill you take once which is in trials now. It has 3 proteins instead of one like the others and is also a vector vaccine..

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 7:36am

Well im not sure where i stand on this covid shit fight.....sons girl is swedish,recons a lot of her friends are travelling thru europe now no restrictions.......and in australia we are being too cautious.......the only winner is big pharma.......maybe this a money power grab....but fukked if i know...
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-29/pfizer-2021-sales-forecast-covid1...

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 7:54am

I’ve heard similar stories about reactions, some with people feeilng crook for a few days too some with no reaction at all.

Hope your mum is on the mend Blowin.

GreenJam same for your old man as well, my comment the other day should have shown a bit more respect, didn’t mean to be so dismissive of his condition. Hope he makes a good recovery

batfink's picture
batfink's picture
batfink Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 8:01am

Think I already reported my side effects (AZ), exactly the same as my wife. Bodily aches and pains came on after about 12 hours, slight chill. Went to bed thinking I wouldn’t be getting out of bed the next day. Woke up feeling fine, although tired and a bit brain foggy, which lasted a few days. All the AZ vax people I know reported the same. Only slightly sore arm, pretty much same as the flu shot previous year.

I know two people who have had Pfizer, both had no reaction on the first shot, one not much reaction on the second, the other was pretty knocked out for a day and a half, reporting it as like a bad flu. It’s not a big sample, but is pretty much exactly what is being reported everywhere else.

I’m quite happy that I felt a reaction, it means your body is kicking into gear. The reaction was equivalent to, though less than, a multi-dose vaccine I got for travelling to India and parts in the 80s.

I’ve done my research, thanks, on both vaccines and conspiracy theories. Upnorth’s article above is very good.

Two things of particular note about those who are sceptical, think it’s all part of some greater plan etc. When asked why they won’t be getting a vaccine, the phrase ‘do your own research’ will come up. It’s funny that going down rabbit holes is now equated with research, so there’s that.

The other one I find fascinating is how often they mention fear. Always directed towards those poor dupes who would rather believe in science than what some chiropractor or osteopath from America or the UK is spruiking. They consider that people who wear masks or get vaccinated are scared, and yet everyone I know (I don’t have any anti-vaxxer friends or relatives) is not talking about fear, about being scared. I don’t want to get full blown Covid, but fear is not the slightest part of my mindset or my motivations.

But they keep talking about how scared everyone else is! There’s a clue there.

Going back for my second jab in just over two weeks, that will be an interval of just under 9. Didn’t want to bring it forward but the risk analysis equations have changed. Will go back for boosters next year if and when they offer them.

Good luck to all.

saltyone's picture
saltyone's picture
saltyone Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 8:07am

Two countries in the world that didn’t have vaccinations with very low cases of covid and deaths- Tanzania and Madagascar. President of Tanzania John Magufuli died recently and the President of Madagascar Andry Rajoelina has had two assassination attempts one being only a few days ago.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.africanews.com/amp/2021/07/23/madaga...

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 8:27am

Freeride-Remember when you said Australia wasn’t authoritarian?

Now we’ve got 15 million Australians under house arrest, the military patrolling the streets to ensure innocent citizens remain locked in their houses, people aren’t allowed to stand outside under the sun on their own without a mask, closed state borders and a freedom protester held in isolation without access to political representation.

Totally normal.

BTW- A person from Blacktown is still allowed to travel within NSW if it’s to attend a property auction or an open house. All hail the GOD of real estate! Religious exemption for the lockdown.

https://www.northernbeachesreview.com.au/story/7350080/yes-sydneysiders-...

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 8:36am

I don't wholly agree with the directives, but if you were in the govt's shoes how would you deal with it?

Let the virus rip?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 8:44am

Protect the vulnerable and the elderly. Let everyone else go about their lives. Get vaccinated if you want to. Pretty sure that 50 percent of deaths or similar is in nursing homes.

Locking up healthy people is bullshit overreach and fucking ridiculous.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 9:19am

Has any country done that? What were the outcomes?

I'm not being obtuse / posting pointed questions, I genuinely don't know. Call me an ignorant twat, but COVID put an end to my thirty-something years of curiousity and staying abreast of all social and political issues. Turned my back on all the news for the first time in my life.

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 9:26am

Much respect Blowin...very considerate to care so much for your nearest and dearest.
Such brutal honesty is to be commended & can only restore Vaccination awareness & safety for Aussies.

Crew wish a speedy recovery to all here suffering from escalating Vax & Covid related health concerns.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 9:28am

I'm glad someone else said it.

The blanket repetitive coverage of COVID is fucking unbelievable, I find it totally repulsive.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 9:42am

Went north of the border yesterday, but I'd printed off the wrong pass so they pulled me over and got me to fill in the correct one on my phone.

Going through the checklist, there's a couple of tickboxes for things you're not allowed to cross the border for - one of which was recreation.

The policewoman looked me straight in the eye and said "you're not coming up here to surf, are you?". Though I did detect a wry grin.

No I joked, as the surf was small and the wind was northerly.

But, it's the first time I've been made aware that Northern NSW surfers can't travel north during the lockdown to surf the Gold Coast. I thought the border bubble was to allow Gold/Tweed residents to travel freely as per usual (though I know the bubble now extends further south to the Clarence).

Are there the same restrictions on Gold Coast surfers travelling south of the border for recreation?

Asking for a mate.

old-dog's picture
old-dog's picture
old-dog Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 9:47am

My wife works next to a vaccination clinic and was talking to the head doctor who said he is over giving the pfizer as every second person rings back to complain about side effects, but no such complaints with the AZ. He has overseen over 10,000 jabs with no serious complications. My 90 year old mum just got her second AZ and is so frail and on blood thinners for clotting and like me had zero side effects. Around the world it is turning into a disease of the unvaccinated.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 10:00am

Huh? Plenty of people who are vaccinated still get infected and can transmit the virus. There’s even talk that viral transmission is higher by the vaccinated for some reason. The phrase “ a disease of the unvaccinated” may have a satisfying resonance to it but it’s not true.

old-dog's picture
old-dog's picture
old-dog Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 10:04am

@Blowin, all the experts I have heard are saying much less viral transmission once vaccinated, sure its not a silver bullet , but better than an empty gun. Cheers mate.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 10:09am

Probably best to listen to the medical experts on this one.
blowin and his horse-punching fellow travellers should stick to their lanes and not try and go above their pay grades.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 10:25am

Heard the cross border commissioner on the radio the other day, he specifically said: no QLD'ers allowed south for a surf.

Blowin: borders were shut for months during Spanish flu in 1918/19.
Worth a read for the historical perspective: https://www.naa.gov.au/blog/closed-borders-and-broken-agreements-spanish...
Early lockdowns and border closures are the reason Australia has largely kept the virus under control and contained to certain areas, namely high density urban populations.

Yeah, it's fucked.
But I don't see it as any sign of creeping authoritarianism.

saltyone's picture
saltyone's picture
saltyone Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 10:26am

AndyM yeah it’s atrocious .

And it’s getting worse -
Binary ,biased reporting.
And over time many people of public become weary as it is not only repetition of negativity and fear which if you look back in history was used during the war (called propaganda ) manipulation techniques. People either surrender because they feel they have no alternative .
An unfortunate byproduct of social media is ever growing funded censorship and you have platforms where division (left/right, black/white, vax/unvax , rich/poor, ) are becoming more rife. Again largely controlled and manipulated through censorship and propaganda from the platforms creators.
Even news sites are now taking their stories from social media pages.
And the whole system is relying more on popularity and reward ( social credit scheme ccp anyone?)

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/media/2021/mar/15/da...

Meanwhile all the other stories you used to hear about relating to what’s happening-eg the environment , proposed mines , dealings in land and water are not spoken of .., secret handshakes and things getting passed with limited to no transparency .

Sprout's picture
Sprout's picture
Sprout Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 10:53am

I hope no-one contracts the virus especially those unvaccinated, and if they do I hope it's as pleasant as possible, but if it's not, I hope they don't go to hospital and waste resources struggling to breathe which data (not opinion) shows is 97% preventable with a simple vaccine.

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 11:41am

That's a terrible thing to say & is so far removed from reality...(Hesitants only suffer more from this stigma)
Crew all know that vax rate is top down > Wealthy > Healthy > White > bullying all poor & sick beneath.
UK "60% of Hospital admissions are Double Vaxed" + 60-70% of UK Hospital deaths are Vaxed
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/07/60-of-people-admitted-to-uk-hospital...
Rollout feeds more Vaxers into Hospital every day & soon 90-100% of Hospital Patients will be vaxed.
Yep! With lone vaxer forking out for 99.99% of Vaxerz beds...Usually only Media can twist such obvious reality?
UK unvaccinated minority are already paying for majority of vaxer's hospital beds & never complained once!

Rollout has bled Oz health System dry > Ambos are ramping > Outpatient recovery is cancelled.
Vaxers are more infectious for first month > Cough & Sneeze more Covid > Vax fades to 30%
Meaning unvaxed youth have more antibodies than many Phase 1 Travellers...Result > More Expert Covid!

1st May - CDC : Any talk of Vax breakthrus is [ FORBODEN ] Penalty is Death.
WR Sputtering incubating Vaxerz must manspread maskless & spew Covid over Hesitant's hidey holes

26th July- CDC : Vaccine Breakthrus are infinitesimal...0.098% + (Prez blames Hesitants for everything!)
https://abcnews.go.com/US/symptomatic-breakthrough-covid-19-infections-r...
27th July- CDC : Vaccine Breakthrus grow to 10%...(Nothing to do with the nice Vax > Blame Delta!)
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/cdc-fully-vaccinated-people-can-sprea...
28th July- CDC : Vaxerz have gotta wear Masks...just coz...Vax is still good...kinda!
https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-07-28/pfizer-vacci...
29th July - CDC : [ Public Notice ] "Thongs outlast Vax"...fading fast ...60% breakthrus ...run & hide!
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39per...
29th - Pfizer's Pandemic Profiteering Tally > $45.7b...(Needs a boost!)
30th July- CDC : "Fire off all Boosters More! More! More!"

August - Pfizer chucks it's worn out vax in the bin...targets seasonal vax variant market for more profit.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/08/pfizer-says-it-is-developing-a-covid-boo...
Oct/Nov- FDA Kid Vax > Full approved Vax > Mandated > $500 / Monthly School Vax or Juvie

CDC should've read the side of the cereal Box...
Wallpapering over a crack only hides the fact that the Earth is collapsing beneath yer feet.
Thank heavens such a fateful thought never entered our experts minds...

Experts : "Wallpapering over Wallpaper didn't work...we're gonna need more fancier Wallpaper!"

Hey : "I thought Wallpaper went out in the 70's!" ...shh! This is serious you know!

Mr Nobody's picture
Mr Nobody's picture
Mr Nobody Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 11:01am

Blowin,

This has been said many times before. The Covid response is more about protecting the health system than the individual. What happens when all of the health professionals (including those who respond to calls for the elderly who become sick) are impacted by the virus?

Hopefully this will be less of an issue with the vaccine being deployed to those in the front line, but that is still a work in progress.

All the best,

Mr NB

tylerdurden's picture
tylerdurden's picture
tylerdurden Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 11:03am

Stu, I’ll have a stab at answering your question about how it could be done, with the assumption that our current conditions are continuing until September and maybe well beyond
1. Run a randomised controlled trial of high dose ivermectin to the known positives and offer mid dose prophylaxis to all the close contacts. Couldn’t be organised with a click of the fingers but with say 5mil and 4 weeks could probably get it up and running
2. Send the primary kids back to school. God help those families with multiple kids in small houses with limited access to technology. The toll to their mental well being must be incredible
3. Open up everything as much as you can. Still limited to a degree but give small businesses at least some hope of survival
4. Throw everything you can at rapid vaccinations, much more than they’re currently doing. Money otherwise spent on Jobkeeper type payments could be poured into the program
5. Throw money at ramping up hospital capacity. Maybe reduce public elective surgery, or transfer it into private and dedicate public hospitals to coping with the surge.

The cases would go up and yes lives would be lost. But lives are slowly being eroded and are being lost as it is.
The difference is that the Covid numbers and deaths can be measured, lives lost due economic wreckage and mental health can’t, or at least can’t be directly attributed to the lockdown

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Friday, 30 Jul 2021 at 11:06am

Waste resources? Taxpayers pay for those hospitals whether they’re vaccinated or not. You think they should not attend hospital so that some fat smoker can get sorted when their body shits itself?

The whole “ wasting precious hospital beds” fails to take into account that there thousands of hospital beds which are always -even during Covid- filled with hopeless cunts who fail to take care of themselves, yet when the tiny amount of free beds due to underfunding looks like they might be filled with Covid crew, all of a sudden it’s a case of “ Excommunicate the unvaccinated”!

You think an unvaccinated Aussie who’s paid tax their entire life should forfeit a bed whilst an elderly Indian grandmother who’s been chain smoking her entire life and who now needs medical care despite never having paid a cent in tax is all good ?

Don’t think so.