The "I can't believe it's not politics" thread.
Blah blah blah Facto.
Bottom line is that the ALP want to grow Australia’s population at least as much as the LNP.
The rest is just lipstick on a pig,
Not much to “ unpack “ there bloke.
"Ha ha! I see what you're doing, Blow In. You want ME to do your homework for you. Spoon-feed. Give you some depth beyond the headline stuff.
Funny thing is, I gave you that reading before.
But you don't read!
Limiting or outright halting immigration (you never did get back to me about what type/s) is not a panacea to our perceived ills (you never got back to me about what you think they are either).
Read something there (may bolster or even give you an argument!), get back to me, and we may tease out some wider ideas about impacts, mitigation, and important structural changes (many of which we can sheet back home to my favourite bête noire, John Winston Howard)."
[Funny, you did provide that book, well inadvertently... https://www.adelaide.edu.au/press/titles/wages-crisis/wages-crisis-ebook...
"A worthy read I daresay.
20 chapters. 5 parts. 328 pages.
Obviously a complex issue. Well, a lot more complex than a few cherry-picked pages from 2 chapters. But hey, that's Macro's business model/plan/shtick."]
"Actually, I was thinking that you might have an opinion. I already know my opinion and I know the opinions , lies , damn lies and statistics available throughout the media.
But at least you’ve given a slight reveal : Limiting or outright halting immigration is not a panacea to our perceived ills .
So you are for Big Australia and continued massively high immigration.
And you don’t think that slowing the rate of immigration will slow the congestion, the ( previously) spiraling house prices , the hospital wait times , the lack of social services and the wage declines ?
Panacea: a supposed solution or remedy for all difficulties or diseases!
Now read that again, youngster!
And no, I don’t think that slowing or halting (which is your position?) the rate of immigration (whatever type/types you haven't got back to me about!) is the PANACEA that will 'fix' congestion; is the main problem with "the (previously...where in WA years back?) spiraling" house prices; will sort out hospital wait times & lack of social services etc. I also see you didn't mention any impacts on the environment at all. There's some interesting paths to take there.
As for the "wage declines", as you put it, this is of particular interest to me. It's why I'm wary of say, Van Onselen peddling his economic shtick (the dismal science!) that doing 'something' with immigration will magically resolve any and all issues in this sphere. It's a distraction. It's why he's getting air-time with the usual right-on suspects.
It's something that demands wider discussion and deeper structural change."
"As in that book!!!!
I. THE PROBLEM
1. Australia, we have a problem
Jim Stanford, Tess Hardy and Andrew Stewart
2. Charting wage stagnation in Australia
3. Global perspectives on wage stagnation
Stephen Kinsella and John Howe
4. What's causing the wages slowdown?
Tess Hardy and Andrew Stewart
II. WAGE SETTING MECHANISMS AND INSTITUTIONS
5. Minimum wages
6. Gender pay equity
Sara Charlesworth and Meg Smith
7. Collective bargaining power
8. Public sector austerity and its spill-over effects
9. Contracting out community services, marketisation and wages
Fiona Macdonald and Michael Pegg
10. Executive remuneration in listed companies and wage setting
III. BUSINESS STRUCTURES AND VULNERABLE WORKERS
11. Fractured word
12. Wage theft and young workers
13. Temporary migrant workers, underpayment and predatory business models
14. Is there a wages crisis facing skilled temporary migrants?
IV. STAKEHOLDER PERSPECTIVES ON CAUSES, CONSEQUENCES, AND SOLUTIONS
15. A business perspective
16. A union perspective on the wages crisis and how to solve it
17. A community perspective: The human and social costs of wage stagnation
18. Young Australians and the disrupted economy
Annette Cairnduff, Kelly Fawcett and Nina Roxburgh
19. An investor perspective
Craig Shepherd and Penny Heard
V. FINDING SOLUTIONS
20. Conclusion: Wages and inclusive growth
Andrew Stewart, Jim Stanford and Tess Hardy
Actually, in the mood for searching and reading?
And not far to go?
Check the back pages of this thread and read on!!!!
Some interesting stuff on there."
Doggo called you out years ago, Blowhard.
The more things change, the more they stay the muthafucken same.
"It's time to play the music
It's time to light the lights
It's time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight
It's time to put on make up
It's time to dress up right
It's time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight"
Bigots gonna bigot.
Numpties gonna numpty.
For friggin years.
seriously your wit. sheesshh. gets me every time. hey do you know what? We all read the conversation too.
Its great coz its explains complex nuanced matters in laymans terms for dumbshits like me.
But thanks for forwarding on all the same. Bloody beneath a manuscript reviewer like yourself to have to dabble with this amateur stuff. Sorry about that.
That’s why you’re awesome Facto. You take a complex difficult subject and break it down in a really simple succinct way.
Do you need a wingman?
One person just posted 8 times in a row, and I’ve probably just interrupted the 9th. Must be a slow night on the box
Edit, bonzer just interrupted..
"Facto. Its ok to be wrong. Even when the plebs get it right.
I don’t think less of you. A guy of your wit and calibre.. C’mon mate give it a try. This is a safe space.
We’ll still be awed by your intelligence. It will feel good.
Smart people are wrong all the time. You’re a smart guy. I’ll bet you have a favourite witty quote to reference that ready to go..
Cmon.. pretty please… say the words."
smart people are wrong all the time ...just many cannot admit it...
man, some of my lecturers!!
so smart, yet so flawed in other ways...
it's a 'spectrum', and many of the biggest smartypants in the world are well and truly on it!
all I can say is, labor are super late to the party, and not real convincing...
especially when part of the last platform they offered to the australian people included importing chinese grandmothers by the thousands... tens of thousands actually... probably hundreds of....
labor have certainly changed their tune of late, and kudos to the likes of bob carr and kristine kenneely for coming straight out and saying it, but as doctor phil says...
'...a good predictor of future behaviour is patterns of past behaviours...'
(intended humourously...before the usual suspects jump in, and off the deep end...)
yeh they've jumped on the band wagon of late, ...belatedly... begrudgingly... whimsically...
but like pretty much everthing they've done and every position they've taken post hawke / keating, they aren't real convincing...
and their figures don't add up, ...they never do, ...not good with numbers...
that doesn't make for an endorsement of anything the coalition have done, it just means labor come across as weak and whimsical
"Facto. Its ok to be wrong..."
About what? Where? When?
Give us something. Should be a doddle, Sepp.
Talking about 'spectrum' and such, how's your dysgraphia??
"People in glasshouses, Alan..."
fr76 yes I read the links apart from the long 2006 Productivity Commission (PC) report, which is just as well since I found a very interesting recent 2016 PC report:
- Overview: https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/migrant-intake/report/migrant-...
- Report: https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/migrant-intake/report/migrant-...
Ahh this all brings me back to my undergraduate days studying economics at UQ.
I really like the PC and Lowy Institute reports. They seem to give very balanced perspectives on the benefits and problems associated with Australia's immigration program. They're not blindly for or against immigration. They outline many of the problems mentioned (exhaustively) in this forum.
I'd describe the reports as written by intelligent people from peak industry bodies who are genuinely trying to understand and quantify the costs and benefits of immigration. Their overall objective seems to be to come to informed conclusions and policy guidance about the size and composition of Australis's immigration intake and the surrounding system of laws and incentive structures designed to manage the outcomes for inbound migrants in order to give our immigration program the best chance possible of having a positive impact on Australia.
Anyone who reads the reports would definitely come to the conclusion that the immigration debate in Australia is not a simple-minded, one-dimensional, black-and-white scenario of "the only thing migrants do is steal our jobs and destroy our environment" or "you either support 0 immigration or big-Australia" which is the picture blowin seems to keep trying to fabricate and push on anyone who mentions anything remotely against 0 immigration.
blowin wrote some great posts ages ago, about unions, and the good fight, how everything was won tooth and nail, and not to be taken for granted. how we need keep up the fight, and how the old school boys used to school you up and create a sense of loyalty.
my old man had this loyalty running through his veins, a coal miner originally, and the son of a coal miner, and on it goes...
I can vaguely remember him way back early eighties, spending weeks, if not months, on a picket line that made nightly news. a picket line to maintain long fought over rights, and keep the scabs out. 24/7, rotating shifts, night and day, not always there, but firmly commited, and always in constant contact with the boys (and girls!) without our various modern means, and without even a vague whisper of such ridiculousness as 'comrade'. a labour / labor man through and through, voting anything other than left, was never an option...
old boy's gone now, but it is stark and confronting how much he changed his view on labor over the last ten to twenty years of his life. I'm positive he still never ever voted lnp, (...but don't really know, because he never said, and that was how it was done...) but the disdain he developed for contemporary labor and the modern 'left' was palpable and confronting for me. confronting, because I was, and still are, proudly left (well, ...not so much proudly anymore...)
I go into this, because I believe the modern left seem to have no fucking idea what it is they have done, what they have created, and what they have most certainly lost...
and that is loyalty and legacy. loyalty is a much underrated commodity in our over commodified modern world, where we are all regarded as 'consumers' and 'identities', ruduced and labelled by politics to a mish-mash of both... and honed to be the self important individuals that this entails...
and the legacy they have lost is the feeling of belonging, of duty, of respect, of appreciation for those that fought for the good things that we all enjoy. and the feeling of being part of something bigger than yourself, bigger than your exclusive self interests. bigger than your car, your house, your 'shack', boat, bike, caravan... the feeling of being part of a tribe, ironically enough... again... in these hyper tribal times...
I'm not writing this as some gratutious bagging of the left, but because many don't seem to understand the history of the left of politics and what's important, ...what was important... and because those that do understand the history, are so fucking aloof and self absorbed, that no amount of hollow 'comrades' and false platitudes will win back this lost loyalty and legacy, unless they come down a peg or two from their self delusional high tower of moral superiority...
and the petty 'condescendation' continues...
'winning' the battle, whilst losing the war...
Gsco.....sorry mate. You’re talking dung. There’s no polite way to say it.
Australia was built on immigration. I’ve never said that immigration is bad. Not once have I said anything remotely along those lines. It’s been falsely claimed by several bad faith ( or stupid ) posters that my stance is anti immigration but it’s never , ever been the case. Immigration can be an extremely useful and beneficial option in many ways , conversely excessive amounts of immigration can have deleterious effects . Many of which are becoming apparent in Australia. Calling for a reduction in immigration is not anti - immigration . Neither is it anti immigrant
The current rate of population growth is to high . That’s it and that’s all. I don’t think zero immigration is feasible or desirable. I do believe that Australia does need to take a serious breather from the huge population gains of the last decade or so.
Get it ?
If you try to superimpose your false narratives again I guess I’ll have to just categorise you amongst the dumb cnts. Your choice.
blowblow bullshits all the time. Anyone that believes he went to Port Hedland as a masterplan to save Indigenous Australians, is beyond help. His racist rants are sickening. He can't bear to celebrate the fact that Indigenous Australians are the longest, continual, most successful Cultures by miles. When he desperately tried to downplay and ridicule that fact, these were his exact, forever chronicled words, conveniently the exact opposite stance to his reems of drivvle here.
'expanded population and territory is basically the yardstick of any species success',
dreamer hates unis. So when a surgeon is needed, he will tell them to fuck off and 'wiv me lyfe epeeriencin' step in. The dumbest shit I have ever heard anywhere on the planet.
Now the new bonzo. There's that Chris Mills thread. People have requested help. Put your money where your whiny mouth is and step up to the plate, and help them.
I agree wholeheartedly with bluediamond. colonisation was a sickening, mass, prolonged, brute like butchery. No one invited the colonials. Despite the obvious mess left in their wake, the invaders 'priviledge' is still enforced. That's the only reason that we are here. Brute force. And through brute force, despite all the major catastrophies, and endless wars, we still want to enforce superiority over the rest of the planet, despite the obvious fact that some, like Indigenous Australians, were much, much more successful, even by blowblow's new about face rants.
Open discussion? Hahahaha... with a bullshit artist? Have fun. And a protected one... 'cunt' for for blowblow only!!!!
The reality of 'priviledge'. From the 'Australian of the Year' too.
Any 'Nation' worth its salt would rectify this situation as a top priority, along with the 'environment'. 'Family'.
I don’t downplay and ridicule indigenous Australians and I never would.
I downplay and ridicule yourself you sick old fck.
Yes , really.
Im sure if you asked most Aussies if they would like to see immigration rates cut almost all would say ideally yes, but im also sure most people would also worry about the impact on our economy if it did happen.
And despite what any article or economist says i don't think many people would trust what they have to say because let's be honest they are extremely hit and miss in their predictions like as reliable as flipping a coin.
We also cant be compared to UK or USA and their immigration rates, they are countries with much larger populations and economies, we are very different in many ways.
I use to share Blowins view, even voted sustainable population party when they first hit the scene, but id honestly be quite nervous if immigration rates were cut right back, especially after this year.
If i knew it wasn't going to have a negative impact on the economy though, then that would be totally different.
dreamer hates unis. So when a surgeon is needed, he will tell them to fuck off and 'wiv me lyfe epeeriencin' step in. The dumbest shit I have ever heard anywhere on the planet.
blowblow bullshits all the time. dreamer is available for open heart surgery now.
blowin is just a bog standard Hansonite who sees no benefits in immigration and massively exaggerates the negatives.
Look at how he endlessly bleats on about international students.
Tertiary education is Victoria's largest export industry. It employs hundreds of thousands of people. Not only that, international student fees fund massive amounts of post graduate research, which has resulted in Melbourne being a world leader in the medical industry. This has then resulted in Melbourne being able to attract big medical conferences, which then attracts high spending tourists.
Without international students, the research required for high tech manufacturing is massively reduced, which limits opportunities across multiple industries.
But hey, let's just kick them all out and pretend there's no consequences. It would please the idiot hansonites like blowin, but it would completely screw our economy and severely limit opportunities for our students. Australia either becomes a high eduction / high tech country or we rely on dwindling resources and a low skilled services sector.
Sure there's some intelligent people who support lower immigration due to environmental concerns, and they do acknowledge the very real problems with a decreasing population. blowin isn't one of these people. He's just a garden variety racist who wants lower immigration to satisfy his bigotry. He happily pushes the Hanson fantasy that working class white people will be better off without immigrants.
It's lazy victimhood crap by people who would rather blame others than retrain or go to university to improve their prospects.
Oh and blowin, the doctor who saved my life last year was an immigrant, so go fuck yourself.
One thing's for sure. Surfers sure are selfish greedy narcisists.
Glad I just ride waves these days. :p
I must have billed you too much for those videos and stuff!
facto. gosh seriously did they give a you a PhD in communications as well coz I gotta commend you. this is next level shit.
Ok silly me. Let me try again. You are wrong because:
I and others have put to you the merits in reducing the rate of immigration.
Your response has been a singular “you are a dumb racist”.. or words (paragraphs and witty memes - .. still makes me wet that)
.. but you know this.. coz you a smart man.. and you wanna admit it.. I can see it….we all can
… just say it.. I was wrong. you don’t need to say sorry.. I would never impose that on your genius.. You gotta trust me on this.. it feels so sweet.
michael. this is no place for you. the adults are talking. get back to us when you learn to lift.
Wrong thread again, go on, over to the Chris Mills thread, put yourself out there booza.
I'm going to do a workout, come on down!
And the tax payers in WA were picking up the tab for strippers and fake employment roles for MP's girlfriends. Fuck me the LNP are corrupt.
"It's lazy victimhood crap by people who would rather blame others than retrain or go to university to improve their prospects."
Vic, you been hanging out with Joe Hockey?
I knew from the start you were a long way to the right, that's why you over-compensate so heavily.
Protesting too much and all that.
And Vic when are you going to quantify that terrible slur on Australian environmentalists?
You know how it is, I just can't let people get away with talking garbage, I just have to make a stand.
You of all people should understand that ;)
Re. WA Libs corruption VL...
"The CCC report stated the Commission had a photograph of Mr Ellis taken in the private room at the Penthouse Club on that evening, in which he was "lying on his back with a naked woman astride his lower body".
The report stated that when shown the photograph, Mr Ellis stated: "I don't know whether you would call that sexual activity."
Jeepers! What is it then??? haha
I've got a lot of sympathy for unemployed people because the LNP have sold so many out and the dole is ridiculously low. I've also got plenty of sympathy for young folk kept out of the housing market because of negative gearing. Inequality of opportunity, is a massive problem in Australia.
My sympathy for unemployed people goes out the window when racist flogs just give up and point the finger at immigrants for their inability to get a job. Fuck, if some refugee with limited English, no money, and no network gets a job instead of the Aussie, maybe the Aussie is the problem not the immigrant. Being unemployed by choice makes up a tiny percentage of unemployed people but it does happen. Being a racist loser by choice doesn't deserve any sympathy at all.
BTW, it's laughable you think I'm one of Hockey's fellow travellers.
bluediamond. Mr Ellis should have used Bill Clinton's "I did not have sexual relations with that stripper" excuse.
"dreamer hates unis. So when a surgeon is needed, he will tell them to fuck off and 'wiv me lyfe epeeriencin' step in. The dumbest shit I have ever heard anywhere on the planet."
Just for the record for anyone reading, i never said any such thing not even remotely close, Herc as per normal try's to joins dots that aren't there and thinks he knows what peoples views are on anything and everything, when he is in reality completely clueless and just a babbling half senile old man and if anyone one here is full of shit, you can guarantee it's him, always trying to talk him self up.
I even noticed Stunet called you out on your nonestical babble the other week when you think you know whats up in his and others life's
For the record:
Although i dont agree with most of VL's post above, and Blowin is in no way a racist, i actually agree with his bit about how important international students are for Victoria, completely understand why universities have been turned into a business and sold out to Asia, with the destruction of many industries like manufacturing as a result of Australias high wages and highest minimum wage in the world (that will never be high enough for some), makes sense that they develop jobs that cant be sent offshore as easily.
Yeah Asian students can study in Asia probably even get a better education there, but the students and their families all want to say my kid went to Uni in Aust or USA, Uk/Europe etc plus it probably looks much better on paper for them seeking a job in their home country or intentionally.
Anyway dont bother replying Herc, i cant be bothered with you, if i want to go talk to some senile old fart that babbles on about nothing, i will go visit the retirement village
Or if you are going to reply, save yourself some time, just cut and paste one of your previous comments like you do for some reason.
'Vic, you been hanging out with Joe Hockey?
Protesting too much and all that.'
ain't that the truth!
"Fuck, if some refugee with limited English, no money, and no network gets a job instead of the Aussie, maybe the Aussie is the problem not the immigrant"
interesting example, I see right wing people use this very example about indigenous people who cannot get a job
Indigenous people even...
how's all thet fit into the equation?
Jeez, Bonza, cobber, not a reader, huh? And here I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Looks like the Sepp and Blowie slurry has just seeped straight in. Ah well, another day, another numpty...
And as Lou Reed once crooned, "good night snowflakes...snowflakes, good night."
"You're tearing me apart, Faaakkkto!"
No dream/nightmare, I'll just cut and paste your ludicrous, and also sick, gutter shit.
You just said,
'maybe he is a university lecturer or involved in university's in some way.
Would make sense the ones ive met and done work for a smart in a book type of way and super woke, but completely clueless to the reality of the real world'
So. in the reality of the real world, lets see your boys back you in... the real world. One in which your 'silent, complicit' boyz can volunteer, strap themselves to the operating table, and let you play anaesthetist, and heart surgeon, as you use your 'real life' shit, and perform open heart surgery because, you'll tell the qualified people to take a hike, again, as you go to town on your boyz with your soldering iron and wire cutters. As they, perhaps not so silently anymore, back your imbecilic drivvle, The last thing they'll see is the drool and spittle as you excitedly recite this sick, stereotypical racist, misogynist gutter slime below.
'BTW. i saw a women at the market in Dandenong the other day with a burqua or maybe it was a Niqab it was kind of in-between couldn't see her face though, i was waiting for my missus so did a bit of people watching with her, to be honest she didn't look oppressed like the full black robe ones I've seen in Indonesia that look like servants of the men, actually looked the opposite in this case she had her little middle eastern guy following her around and from the body language she looked like she was wearing the pants so to speak.
It was quite crowded and was thinking maybe i will accidentally go bump into her and say sorry etc and see if she will interact with me and see the reaction of her husband, but by that time my missus had finished.'
You got called on it, even by head honcho benno, and you've bragged about it ever since.
'Is it just me, or is this just a bit, erm, mental?'
And no young Shatner, although just another great moment, another great 'work' to the swillnuts, its definitely not just you it is extremely weird. As you can see when the swillnut 'dream', (the nightmare for all non swillnuts) comes all too true. Cafes like 'markets' should be safe places for women, places where complete strangers aren't stalking women, and thinking extremely weird shit about going 'bump' in the... nightmare...
'Ms Abdo said it was very worrying.
"We are all concerned. You are actually sitting in a cafe in a group, you would think that is the safest place to be. We are all trying to deal with it."
The assault occurred in the week a study was released showing women wearing headscarves were at the most risk of Islamophobic attacks.
"We are mothers, wives, daughters … and we deserve to feel safe wherever we go," Ms Elasmar said.
"I fear for the world our children will grow up in, if this issue is not addressed."
Let's replace "burqa or niqab" with "biniki", the location from the "Dandenong markets" to "Bondi Beach", and let's switch stereotypes - Australian wife/husband, muslim bloke watching from the side.
Let's then see how this woman interacts with you (and how her husband reacts) after you "accidentally bump into her".
C'mon ID.. really? Why do you need to see how they react following fake body contact? What would it tell you that you wouldn't otherwise get from asking them a question?'
Yet, not one of your boyz has stood up and been counted, instead offering nothing but 'complicit silence'.
I suggest swellnet put the sick stereotypical Dandenong Markets post as an educational, copy book, front page exhibition of stereotypical, racist, misogynist behaviour and thinking.
Or, the sound of good 'ol swillnut, 'sweet', 'silent complicity' rules again.
"Why a population of, say, 15 million makes sense for Australia"
Thanks for the recommendation Facto.
"In many countries, stable and declining populations due to demographic aging are often reported by the media as a problem or crisis," says Frank Götmark, co-senior author and biologist at the University of Gothenburg in Sweden. "But the alternative--endless population growth--is not ecologically possible. Overpopulation leads to serious problems, including excessive consumption ... and habitat loss leading to species endangerment."
Scotty needs belting
Like Facto said, these people hate us, they hold us in total contempt.