The United States(!) of A

Not acceptable, but unfortunately not illegal either Sypkan. That is the nature of the world we live in.

If you're after evidence...

Michael Cohen
Paul Manafort
George Papadopoulos
Alex van der Zwaan
Roger Stone
Rick Gates

All these individuals have been convicted of crimes.

Not to mention the 13 russians who've been indicted in relation.

And that's just the tippiest tip of the iceberg!

So you're not certain, but what you do know for sure is that the media outlets you dislike are lying about everything you don't want to be true. Riiiight.

If you want some help identifying bias, can I suggest you equip yourself with a mirror perhaps?

mate you anti trumpers see everything black and white

everything, ...and I mean everything! ...is orange man bad, ...non negotiable, ...absolute and absolutely ...now that there is some extreme bias...

the democrats, and some of you guys, clearly see the whole election as a referendum on trump, no other issue, its been pitched as such

for me (and a heap of people, it seems) we know trump is an aboninable orange man, but we see the other side as no better in their current form, they are just as corrupted, not more, not less, same same, that's not bias, that's a wish to deal with things...

but you guys are so flabberghasted, ...so disgusted, ...constantly... you always reduce it to you're either with us or you are for trump, that is the big mistake, big big mistake, being made again and again

and again...

I am not blowin and I am not ‘shemp’, I take it that comparing me to a stooge is an insult so thanks for that. Also I am not in disguise uplift, I only post under sickaz.

To be fair facto, most of the time I Don’t read your posts because the rambling stream of consciousness ranting is more or less incomprehensible. Maybe the subject matter is way over my head!

It isn’t.

My name is Pete, from Margaret River, and I doubt anyone who frequents these forums knows me.

Nice deflection sypkan.

See how different your standards for corruption are for Biden and for Trump? There is oodles more evidence, of far higher quality, for corruption in the Trump camp. Yet you dismiss this out of hand, whilst accepting what is - by comparison - flimsy evidence at best.

I'm not talking about Trump and Biden or media bias here. I'm talking about your bias, as demonstrated by what I've said above.

This is why it's not worth entering into a discussion. You'll never agree to a basic definition of reality.

You don't like the democrats, and I guess that's down to what you see as a betrayal of their original values - a fair criticism. But in your zealous hatred of them you've bought into this rotten eco-system that has constructed an alternate reality. I guess it's comforting for you or something.

you're way off jq

trump is a disgrace, I admitted that, you guys cannot admit anything bad about biden, its all dismiss and deflect...

you're in alternative reality mate, not me

answer me one question, do you believe its hunter's laptop?

hunter's emails?

most interesting that the democrats haven't even attempted to claim that they are not, not one of them, no one, ...very telling...

and Im sorry, but all that zealous hatred is all coming the other way

I dont hate the democrats, I just literally cannot believe that it has come to this

I'm not way off sypkan. Given the people who are incarcerated and those who have indicted as a result of the inquiry into the relations between Russia and the Trump campaign, it is absolutely absurd to label it a hoax (as you have done). You would have to be in an alternate reality to believe as much.

Don't go into media reports, look at convictions and indictments, these are held to a much higher standard than media reporting.

Sypkan, I don't know enough about the Biden stuff to comment either way, all I've heard is that someone had a laptop that was allegedly Hunter Bidens and allegedly had incriminating emails on it. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject. As such I can't really 'admit' anything buddy.

Didn't the republicans hold some sort of senate inquiry into this issue? Did that result in any charges? Any convictions? Didn't they re-open investigations into this in Ukraine, what came of that?

I wouldn't get overly carried away on media reports, as I think we can all agree, these aren't held to very high standards anymore. Convictions and indictments are though.

Oodles of evidence?

The brightest and best legal and law enforcement minds in the USA backed by unlimited resources working non-stop to try and pin anything, anything at all on Trump came up with zilch. I think that hardly constitutes more evidence of a far higher quality as wishful as you may think.

"for me (and a heap of people, it seems) we know trump is an abominable orange man, but we see the other side as no better in their current form, they are just as corrupted, not more, not less, same same, that's not bias, that's a wish to deal with things..."

I happen to agree with this, as awful as Trump is, holding up Biden or Hillary as some paragon of virtue is laughable.

PS- Syp, fixed your typo, hope you don't mind.

Phwoar! 2 for 2 on the deflection there chief!

Hardly, but carry on JQ.

Zen, I'd remind you that several of those who have been convicted in that inquiry were convicted of lying to investigators.

Am I correct in assuming your assessment is that the investigators got completely to the bottom of the issue, nothing was left undiscovered, no stone left unturned.

Zen, given the number of people convicted and the indictments issued on the matter, do you think to describe it as a 'hoax' is a fair assessment?

Remember, my point here is not that Trump is a russian puppet. How could I possibly know that?

My point is that if you look at the events that took place, the convictions and the indictments and then come to the conclusion that it's all a hoax, then you are clearly not making a reasonable assessment. My point is that this is indicative of the level of detachment from reality that we are currently dealing with.

Also, feel free to direct me to where I've held up either Hillary or Biden as paragons of virtue.

Zen, you've grossly mischaracterised the process of impeachment. As I'm sure you are well aware, it doesn't work like a normal court.

Regardless of what evidence they presented, what hope did they have of 'pinning' anything on Trump when those judging him are his party members?

Consider that those charged with judging his actions even openly admitted they were not impartial.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/12/mitch-mcconnell-impeachment-sena...

"Sypkan, I don't know enough about the Biden stuff to comment either way, all I've heard is that someone had a laptop that was allegedly Hunter Bidens and allegedly had incriminating emails on it. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject. As such I can't really 'admit' anything buddy."

no desire to dig a little deeper?

a lot of 'allegedly' in there mate... its quite concerning someone as smart as you can still be saying 'allegedly' at this point in time, and that s not a personal attack, ...just the nature of things...

mate there's stuff getting drip fed everywhere, it's one helluva 'october surprise' ...if you are willing to dig a little... you won't see it on cnn, and you won't see it on abc unfortunately

...and that is the real scandal!!

TBH Sypkan I've had about enough American news at the moment, it's like some sort of horror movie that I'm trying not to watch through my fingers. It's horrific watching what was at one stage a great democracy crumbling in real time.

I'm not disputing what you're saying but the point I made simply was that if Trump could have been got he would have been gotten by now. Certainly not a hoax, where there's smoke there's fire but I think Russian meddling in the US elections to determine the outcome is overreaching. I just think Hillary lost because she was just so on the nose with the voting states that mattered the most. Were they supposed to vote for her because she had a vj? Trump made promises that appealed to every day Americans, he played to their fears and it worked. I reckon it's going to work again just quietly.

And to address your last sentence, no you didn't explicitly say that of course but to accuse Syp of having a blind hatred of the Dems when he has said nothing of the sort and your failure to touch on that, kinda paints that picture in my opinion.

But, all of this is moot or mute for Indo- I couldn't give a fuck. Trump is a grub, Biden is a leopard who somehow wants to change his spots 50 years down the track, Pence is a soggy kitten and Harris, I've got no idea about. Is she hot?

Zen, I don't think sypkan has to outright state his views on the democrats for me to form a reasonable opinion. There's dozens if not hundreds of posts one could examine to reach this conclusion. I feel like not only did I touch on that, I got my fingernails all dirty on it.

Also, I don't feel like Trump can be 'got' while he's got a republican controlled senate to protect him, regardless of his deeds or guilt.

My gut feel on the election (of course based around my hopes) is that Biden will win. My theory is that democrat voters were really de-motivated in 2016, while Trumps voters were really riled up. Trumps voters are still really riled up, but now the democrats are fired right up too and I really can't see how Trump could have won many new voters who didn't vote for him last time.

fair enough jq, it is a horror show, many can only look away...

I really couldn't give a shit re. the dem v rep thing, totally over it. I want neither to win, truly a hobson's choice from my perspective

I just enjoy the spectacle; the politics; the developments, leaks and lies; the tech wars; the whole thing; ...and the outrageous outrageousness that is the US...

speaking of which... anyone seen that g tv stuff getting around? is any of that shit for real?

outfuckingrageous alright!!

...whether it be real, 'kompromat', or fabrication...

next level election this one

@zen "Is she hot?"

semi-hot, super-smart, imho ;)

She's got my vote then Westy (theoretically) but then again, I'm shallower than the shallow end of the kiddies pool.

If anything was uncovered by the Mueller investigation it would have all over the media but they found nothing to do with Russian collusion.

Checking the convictions of those people charged with crimes after the Mueller report will not yield any convictions of conspiracy or electoral fraud or enabling Russian influence over the 2016 election, they got done for things like tax evasion and corporate fraud, Cohen got done for campaign finance breaches, it’s all terrible crook behaviour obviously. But there was no proof of Russian collusion which was the point of the investigation.

In any case it was all over the media who often portrayed Trump as guilty prior to Mueller releasing the findings.

Doesn’t seem to be the same set of standards when such strong evidence of Biden’s (and Clinton’s) international corruption and influence peddling has been uncovered with a possible incumbent President so clearly implicated with an election just around the corner.

In fact Twitter blocked the NY Post for publishing articles about the Biden email leak and have censored many individuals who try to report or comment on the issue.

NY Post is still blocked on Twitter.

Surely that accounts to election meddling.

SicKaz, NYP is blocked by twitter because the Hunter Biden ‘email scandal’ is straight up fkn bollocks.

The ‘story’ isn’t being covered because it’s, like, not even a story. It’s a desperate attempt to pull an October surprise.

The timelines don’t add up, and even if Hunter were implicated in wrongdoing there’s no link to Joe Biden doing anything wrong.

If you think there was no Russian interference in the 2016 election you’re deluded. It’s been widely acknowledged within the US security and intelligence community (generally GOP-leaning btw).

You’re coming across like a bot.

Etarip Joe Biden is implicated. GOP are using it to their advantage no doubt. I don’t like Trump by the way and I am spewing the DNC put up such pathetic candidates. I get frustrated that the ‘workers party’ Has now become the woke Silicon Valley elite party led by a man who can’t remember who he is running against and quite possibly won’t see out his term if he wins.

If the DNC had run with good candidates, like Gabbard or Buttigieg this election would probably be a foregone conclusion. Despite Trump being the divisive cretin that he is, I think the DNC has fucked up so royally Trump will win another four years and for that they deserve to be scorned. Also I never said there was no Russian meddling in the 2016 election, there could have been, probably was, but there was nothing found in the Mueller Investigation report that showed Trump was part of a Russian election meddling scandal.

I feel like I’m watching America dying and I’m scared of who would fill the power vacuum if they did. Give me a hegemonic US over a hegemonic China any day.

I also haven’t said it would be better for Trump to win than Biden, they both suck. Americans deserve better and Bret Weinstein’s Unity 2020 proposal is perhaps the best solution to the 2party stalemate that the US is in now that I have read about.

The whole Hunter Biden laptop issue is complete bollocks and Joe Biden is not implicated. It’s not even remotely grounded in fact. You’re amplifying lies, playing your role in a hamfisted disinformation campaign.

I’m not a Biden fan myself. Some of his foreign policy decisions as VP were terrible (particularly his decision to back the wrong horse in the 2011 Iraq election). But these allegations are desperate attempts to create a ‘Benghazi’ situation.

As for the decline of America, both internally and its place in the world. Trump (and the enabling mechanisms around him - including his association with conspiracy theorists and fringe loonies) has done far more to accelerate it. Perhaps terminally.

"The whole Hunter Biden laptop issue is complete bollocks and Joe Biden is not implicated".
Here's the point, there's about 40% of the voting population in the USA that actually believe this shit. Trump's base are basically idiots.
Swift boat veterans for truth, the birther movement, and the hunter Biden Ukraine Connection. There'a a pattern here.
Trump's base is like a cult. They believe everything the dear leader says, no matter how implausible.

Saying Trump voters are idiot members of a cult is the reason why he has half the support he does. This sort of aggressive I know everything attitude enables the mechanism around him.

Again I am not a Trump supporter I just can’t stand the holier than thou condescending way Trump supporters get dressed down by people who, like everyone, come with their own biases and flaws.

The more times people say Trump supporters are idiots, the more he is enabled by people who will vote for him to protest this ivory tower ideological BS.

Sickaz....if you are hoping to find a broad , open minded discussion then Vic Local ain’t the place to start looking. No where in his mind is it possible that anyone who doesn’t completely align themselves with his beliefs escapes being labelled an irredeemable moron.

It’s black vs white . No other colours or shades of interpretation exist.

I’m sure that there’s many Trump supporters who are idiots but to straight up disregard 40 percent of a nation of 330 million people tells you more about Vic Local than it does about Americans.

Imagine if I’d said that 40 percent of Chinese were idiots.....guess what he’d be hate typing for the next 20 years ( Racist !!!!!!!!!!!! ) .

Yes Blowin I realise I’m flogging a dead horse. Time to tap out I’ve said enough.

There is a word that describes someone intolerant to people with opposing viewpoints, ironically it’s a darling derisive term overused by left wing extremists.

The word is Bigot.

Hey Facto.....remember the time that your 50,000 posts on here painted you out to be such a flog that your mate felt he had to vouch for you not being an utter flog ?

It was last week.

Well blokes, the days of tolerating anti-science, anti-democracy, pro race hate idiocy are over.
Trump and his administration have destroyed the USA. He's jumped into bed with dictators and white supremacists, he's doing everything in his power to rig this vote, he's attacked the press, and now he's saying he may not hand over power if he loses the election.
Remember the incident when peaceful BLM protestors walked by a mansion and the occupants pointed a pistol and military style assault weapon at them? Any decent human being would say that that's unacceptable, Not only did Trump not condemn the couple, the GOP invited these two to speak at their convention. That's batshit crazy and seriously dangerous.
So you'll have to forgive me for calling his supporters scumbags and morons.

Classic.

Facto youve propagated more lies than any 5 other posters combined in your attempts to smear me with your mud slinging. Perhaps it’s time to head to a doctor and determine whether your lying is congenital or the result of environmental pressures.

Im sure you like to think of your bullshit as creative....hey , he just likes to “ make things up “. I’m afraid it’s not that glamorous bloke. Just your garden variety lying.

Aha! Figured out posting images. That's ID btw.

Same bloke ? ( Not Indo BTW )

Jesus. That was confronting until I figured out wtf was happening.

And what exactly are you an expert in Comrade Queef ? What is it that you know about ? After 50,000 of your posts you’ve yet to give any impression of being schooled up on anything at all. You will never reveal what you do for a living or your education or anything about yourself. You never have a unique insight or even an opinion of your own. Your only specialty seems to be spreading bullshit about other people.

The things you’ve lied about me include ( but are not limited to ):

1/ Being retired
2/Share trading
3/ surfing switch
4/ being in the NW
5/ being in Indo
Etc
Etc

Why you’d even care about this harmless personal detail let alone lie about it is beyond me .....but that’s you mate.

You love a good old fashioned lie .

Christ if you don’t remember then you are truly cooked.

Time to lay off the pole you’re smoking, bloke. It’s addling your brain.

"And what exactly are you an expert in Comrade Queef ? "

being absolutely and totally wrong on just about every significant political event in the last eight years

...despite it being his speciality

...apparently

Are you really denying you indulged on a prolonged campaign of claiming everything I said I’d done was bullshit ?

Which , ironically enough, turned out to be bullshit from your own mouth.

You realise that counts as yet more bullshit don’t you ?

Oh ....is that how you get out of facing the fact that you are a LIAR ? Simply claim that you weren’t bullshitting about everything ?

Yeah...nah. Doesn’t work like that mate. You tell lies ....you’re a liar.