The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

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soggydog Wednesday, 23 Feb 2022 at 11:34pm
Constance B Gibson wrote:

Surprised?

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/?fbclid=...

Thanks CBG, that deep dive is what everyone should know. Really more of the same from the US.
I’ll have to read it again to soak it all in.

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 6:37am
soggydog wrote:
Constance B Gibson wrote:

Surprised?

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/?fbclid=...

Thanks CBG, that deep dive is what everyone should know. Really more of the same from the US.
I’ll have to read it again to soak it all in.

It’s not a bad read as a historical summary, but it has three main weaknesses; firstly, it fails to presents the current Russian actions as anything but inevitable and in doing so justifies them. Is an invasion Putin’s ‘only’ option? It’s as one-sided as the narrative that it’s trying to debunk.

Secondly, the piece is entirely binary in its view, defining this as a binary US /Russia issue. Reality is that there’s far more European equity in this issue than is presented. And it entirely neglects to mention Ukrainian equities. This is an economic and social issue as much as it is a military security issue. More Ukrainians want to join the EU than NATO. Is there any right to national self-determination?

Finally, there’s an underwhelming ‘so what’ at the end of it: Americans should demand more of Biden to avoid war. For a reasonably constructed (if one-sided) piece, this is a fizzle of a conclusion: “The past few weeks have seen several failed talks between the US and Russians, as the US refuses to alter its plans for Ukraine. The US Congress is rushing a “lethal aid” package to send more weapons to the troubled border. Perhaps if the public were better informed, there would be more domestic pressure on Biden to end the brinkmanship and seek a genuine solution to the problem.” To wit, what is the genuine solution? The article has done nothing to outline, or point to, an alternative.

So… the failure of talks is solely the US’s responsibility, despite their public statements that they will not intervene in Ukraine? Where’s the Russian response to that? Economic sanctions ARE the alternative to war. That’s the policy tool being threatened and employed.

My final point is that it’s all a bit fatalistic. If you accept that the malfeasant and unstoppable hand of US foreign policy in all of this, it kind of undermines the significance of executive power. What follows is that presenting this in the usual Trump good / Biden bad (or vice versa) dichotomy is pointless - there’s been no fundamental change in US policy, and if anything Biden is the most effective puppet-master in global history.

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H2O Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 7:56am

Interesting interview re how events might play out in Ukraine , with ex UK ambassador to Russia -yesterday on RN breakfast. Interested to hear comments from those watching this unfold.
https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYWJjLm5ldC5hdS9yYWRpb25...

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evosurfer Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 10:35am

I take no real interest in world politics until its going to become catastrophic and pretty ignorant
on it all. What I can see is that nobody has threatened or invaded Russia. Russia to me is invading
a neighbours country with real threats of all out war, is this all hollywood scripted, to make Russia
the bad guy and the USA the white knights and its a reversed coverup. Also the USA and other
western countries with similar values are only threating with sanctions and going all out to prevent
war. Then you have to acknowledge the fact that Russia and China are allies in all this and the cunning
rats ( China )are on a threatening move as well. Anyone on here remember where this world stopping virus was released from? Hits me a bit like a JBG smack in the face at pipeline is that this is a orchestrated strategic co-ordinated world attack and changing the world under a new dictatorship way of life, for the ones they let live. So much anti USA and blame on them from this site it challenges me to figure out why, makes me angry actually do some of you really want to live under a brutal dictatorship
or live a relatively free and easy way of life with passive control and direction with over used PC and
bylaws. I look at mainly USA plus its allies as protecting my way of life. Ive already lost a shit load of money, my business, my house and wife I really dont wish to lose my freedom as well.
If the USA has its secrete armies and spies in place I say great they are only protecting
us and our way of life. So by all means someone on here tell me straight up why America
is at fault here because I dont fucken know.

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Constance B Gibson Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 1:05pm

"What follows is that presenting this in the usual Trump good / Biden bad (or vice versa) dichotomy is pointless - there’s been no fundamental change in US policy..."

So...no surprises...

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frog Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 1:46pm

For one great power to dominate politically and economically there are many benefits in facilitating the fragmentation of any medium sized or large foreign nation states, where possible, into small, unstable, ethnically and religiously fractured societies. Peace and prosperity for all is often not the foremost goal.

The fragmented nature of the middle east and much of Europe is not by chance. Chaos in the middle east has benefits for some.

At a state level there are strong views that WIN or LOSE is the only long term option for a great power.

The long strategic struggle for dominance for some and survival for others is very serious on both sides.

A large, cohesive country with a lot of resources is an obvious target to contain and fragment.

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sypkan Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 3:09pm

explosions going off, ...as UN discussions conclude...

befuudled biden fumbles with threats

impotent threats putin clearly couldn't give a shit about...

the russian chessman is three steps ahead ...at least...

choreographed to a tee

politics aside, it's like the players are on two totally different chess boards, putin-old school, tried abd tested... the west-contemporary and constrained, failing miserably...

the first act

I really really hope china isn't in on this dance

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flollo Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 3:18pm
etarip wrote:
soggydog wrote:
Constance B Gibson wrote:

Surprised?

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/?fbclid=...

Thanks CBG, that deep dive is what everyone should know. Really more of the same from the US.
I’ll have to read it again to soak it all in.

It’s not a bad read as a historical summary, but it has three main weaknesses; firstly, it fails to presents the current Russian actions as anything but inevitable and in doing so justifies them. Is an invasion Putin’s ‘only’ option? It’s as one-sided as the narrative that it’s trying to debunk.

Secondly, the piece is entirely binary in its view, defining this as a binary US /Russia issue. Reality is that there’s far more European equity in this issue than is presented. And it entirely neglects to mention Ukrainian equities. This is an economic and social issue as much as it is a military security issue. More Ukrainians want to join the EU than NATO. Is there any right to national self-determination?

Finally, there’s an underwhelming ‘so what’ at the end of it: Americans should demand more of Biden to avoid war. For a reasonably constructed (if one-sided) piece, this is a fizzle of a conclusion: “The past few weeks have seen several failed talks between the US and Russians, as the US refuses to alter its plans for Ukraine. The US Congress is rushing a “lethal aid” package to send more weapons to the troubled border. Perhaps if the public were better informed, there would be more domestic pressure on Biden to end the brinkmanship and seek a genuine solution to the problem.” To wit, what is the genuine solution? The article has done nothing to outline, or point to, an alternative.

So… the failure of talks is solely the US’s responsibility, despite their public statements that they will not intervene in Ukraine? Where’s the Russian response to that? Economic sanctions ARE the alternative to war. That’s the policy tool being threatened and employed.

My final point is that it’s all a bit fatalistic. If you accept that the malfeasant and unstoppable hand of US foreign policy in all of this, it kind of undermines the significance of executive power. What follows is that presenting this in the usual Trump good / Biden bad (or vice versa) dichotomy is pointless - there’s been no fundamental change in US policy, and if anything Biden is the most effective puppet-master in global history.

A high-quality response etarip.

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Optimist Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 3:22pm

If China does anything at all it will be to take Taiwan while everyone is watching Putin in Ukraine. The pieces are moving on the game board and will continue to do so until higher powers get what they want. This is above puppets like Biden and most so called world leaders.

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udo Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 3:39pm

The Invasion has begun..

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Island Bay Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 3:43pm
Optimist wrote:

If China does anything at all it will be to take Taiwan while everyone is watching Putin in Ukraine. The pieces are moving on the game board and will continue to do so until higher powers get what they want. This is above puppets like Biden and most so called world leaders.

Senile puppets

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sypkan Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 3:44pm

I gotta say, that 'denazicification' line was particularly clever...

(see cunstance's article above)

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 4:37pm

If you think what Russia is doing in Ukraine right now is somehow justified by NATO expansion (to include a grand total of 2 countries, not on Russia’s borders) over the last 15 years, there’s something wrong with you.

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 4:33pm

Secondly, if you think that Putin’s commentary and narrative are aimed at The West and you’re repeating his lines, you’re mistaken in the first instance and slightly moronic in the second.

They’re firmly aimed at the domestic market. Putin doesn’t care for any justification. He’s on record as saying what he wants. It’s got nothing to do with Nordstream, NATO or the EU.

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evosurfer Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 4:38pm

Of course China and Russia are on this together ive being saying this for 2 years with the virus attack
that was just to destabilised the world the beginning. China will now advance on Taiwan. Divide and
conquer oldest trick in the book. Two real wars on of global proportions at each end of the world certainly weakens worlds defence forces.

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velocityjohnno Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 4:45pm

Attack has begun, must have started about 3pm AEST.
Much footage of bombardment and things like cruise missiles flying through air. Reports that Ukranian navy was destroyed in port at Odessa.

https://twitter.com/vcdgf555

Some vivid scenes, feel for the poor buggers under the fire.

Evosurfer, tend to agree on the virus attack. Have a look at dispositions if you can and there's decent deterrent in SCSea currently, if you know what I mean.

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bluediamond Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 4:48pm

Heavy VJ.

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 4:55pm

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:
https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

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sypkan Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 5:16pm

i assume you're having a shot at me...

I don't think anything is justified, and I don't think repeating his lines that are widely reported in the media deserves personal condemnation

my comments were about putin clearly playing a different game to the west, with clearly different rules, and seemingly, even in a different epoch of time...

my comments are about how impotent the west seems to have made itself

the nazi comment is particularly clever, it plays to all audiences, and at the same time, firmly says a lot about previous US meddling...

meddling that big joe had a big role in...

coincidently... and Im sure putin takes some great pleasure engaging such a cutting gibe

that's all

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gragagan Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 5:14pm
etarip wrote:

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:
https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

They're all very quiet, just people doing their normal daily thing by the looks of it. There's a ton of live-cams all over ukraine, I've been checking as many as I can. I saw people catching a bus, a worker emptying a rubbish bin, people shopping, roads look normal, the port looks quiet.
There are a lot of US and UK news-sites and youtube channels doing "live feeds" of the "invasion". I don't think they can be trusted.
btw on a side note everyone that I could see was masked up still

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Robwilliams Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 6:35pm
velocityjohnno wrote:

Attack has begun, must have started about 3pm AEST.
Much footage of bombardment and things like cruise missiles flying through air. Reports that Ukranian navy was destroyed in port at Odessa.

https://twitter.com/vcdgf555

Some vivid scenes, feel for the poor buggers under the fire.

Evosurfer, tend to agree on the virus attack. Have a look at dispositions if you can and there's decent deterrent in SCSea currently, if you know what I mean.

Sad day for the people the world over. Just what we want. Another war supporting the benefits of a few for the sacrifice of everyday people. Russia enforcing its power is detrimental to both Russia and Ukraine. Most people just go about trying to survive in Eastern Europe let alone involves themselves in a war which only sacrifices their young. Been a few short wars in my lifetime. Nothing really gained except massive loss. Leaders of the world. You continue to fail your people. It's no wonder most loose faith in what is promised. Destabilising Europe has no benefit to the countries that surround conflict. Nor the future in which the youth grow up in rebuilding the nations you wreck. Most people celebrate peace. Without it you have little to prosper. Peace in Ukraine peace in Russia. Topple your tyrants.

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Supafreak Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 6:33pm

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Robwilliams Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 6:41pm
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Supafreak Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 8:15pm

Anyone checked their super ? Mines taken a hit since last month.

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velocityjohnno Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 8:25pm

Can confirm webcams look pretty quiet. Difficult when contrasting them to all the footage of bang crash: what to believe? Ferris Bueller showed us all that cams can also be gamed, just as social media posts can. Haven't checked super Supa (ha!) - anyone got puts? ;) Don's forecast coming true perhaps. IR pressure going up in the background...

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velocityjohnno Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 8:40pm

& look on the bright side here in Oz,

https://www.investing.com/indices/major-indices

check MOEX and RTSI - I see them down 24 and 29% at time of posting. That board is a sea of red apart from the VIX.

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gsco Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 8:59pm

interesting that the VIX is not yet at GFC or beginning-covid levels:

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frog Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 9:21pm

Moved most of my super to cash a while ago.... 2022 looked like war drums, fed drums, bubble trouble would make risk reward very unfavourable.

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frog Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 9:48pm

Got real, real fast.

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 10:29pm
velocityjohnno wrote:

Can confirm webcams look pretty quiet. Difficult when contrasting them to all the footage of bang crash: what to believe? Ferris Bueller showed us all that cams can also be gamed, just as social media posts can. Haven't checked super Supa (ha!) - anyone got puts? ;) Don's forecast coming true perhaps. IR pressure going up in the background...

Sorry, I was taking the piss. It’s not hard to run a loop on an internet facing camera like that. What you see is not what you get.

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 10:32pm
sypkan wrote:

i assume you're having a shot at me...

I don't think anything is justified, and I don't think repeating his lines that are widely reported in the media deserves personal condemnation

my comments were about putin clearly

that's all

Why do you think that my comment was directed at you personally? Nothing of the sort. For such an outspoken critic of the popular narrative and the evil MSM I figure that you might be a little more…. discerning with what you believe, repeat and amplify. Perhaps not.

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etarip Thursday, 24 Feb 2022 at 10:41pm
gragagan wrote:
etarip wrote:

Ukrainian webcams in Odessa seem quiet:
https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/ukraine/odessa.html

Wonder why that is…????

They're all very quiet, just people doing their normal daily thing by the looks of it. There's a ton of live-cams all over ukraine, I've been checking as many as I can. I saw people catching a bus, a worker emptying a rubbish bin, people shopping, roads look normal, the port looks quiet.
There are a lot of US and UK news-sites and youtube channels doing "live feeds" of the "invasion". I don't think they can be trusted.
btw on a side note everyone that I could see was masked up still

Just a hint. Look a little broader than US and UK news sites.

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donweather Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 7:05am
Supafreak wrote:

Anyone checked their super ? Mines taken a hit since last month.

US Stocks dumped hard on opening last night our time and gold price pumped. However by close of market last night gold had dropped and stocks were pretty much back at BE.

Russia Ukraine crisis is a mere blip. Stock market will rally hard in the coming months before an epic crash later this year.

And a lot of this Russia Ukraine has already been priced in over the last few weeks with stocks down

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Optimist Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 7:04am

The US reminds me of a spoilt kid at the zoo. He walks right up to the fence and pokes the bear. The bear stares at him…The kid gets closer and pokes him again and the bear growls. The kid pokes him harder and the bear growls louder. The kid looks at the fence and thinks it looks quite strong so he pokes the bear even harder. …the bear finally stands up straight and he is actually twice the height of the fence and leans over and belts the kid with his big hairy paw….the spoilt kid runs away wounded and the bear climbs the fence and sits on the outside of it so no more spoilt kids will come near it again.

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frog Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 7:14am

Yep, they have been poking that bear for 100 years on and off.

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etarip Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 7:15am
Optimist wrote:

The US reminds me of a spoilt kid at the zoo. He walks right up to the fence and pokes the bear. The bear stares at him…The kid gets closer and pokes him again and the bear growls. The kid pokes him harder and the bear growls louder. The kid looks at the fence and thinks it looks quite strong so he pokes the bear even harder. …the bear finally stands up straight and he is actually twice the height of the fence and leans over and belts the kid with his big hairy paw….the spoilt kid runs away wounded and the bear climbs the fence and sits on the outside of it so no more spoilt kids will come near it again.

Do you always speak in parables?

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etarip Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 7:55am

US propaganda….

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Blowin Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 8:51am

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Roadkill Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 8:53am

China comes out and blames western countries for causing Russia/Ukraine conflict...USA is the main cause of conflict. Does not believe Russia has invaded Ukraine.

The USA is creating panic.

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Roadkill Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 8:55am
Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUzZ...

I don't get it...is this meant to be funny? clever? cutting edge? provocative?

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indo-dreaming Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 9:07am
Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUzZ...

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

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Blowin Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 9:09am
Roadkill wrote:
Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUzZ...

I don't get it...is this meant to be funny? clever? cutting edge? provocative?

All of the above. Which it is. Fiery but mostly peaceful bombing of key targets in Ukraine!

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Roadkill Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 9:20am
indo-dreaming wrote:
Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUzZ...

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

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Blowin Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 9:52am

Truth bomb

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soggydog Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 10:20am
Roadkill wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUzZ...

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Engaging in a bit of unnecessary recreational outrage roadkill. Maybe try a walk mate, all that stress’ll give you bad health outcomes mate……….

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Roadkill Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 10:29am
soggydog wrote:
Roadkill wrote:
indo-dreaming wrote:
Blowin wrote:

https://twitter.com/CasuallyGreg/status/1496888729771778052?s=20&t=gnUzZ...

Ha ha gold, i honestly got sucked in seeing the photo thinking fuck.

And then the punch line.

Explain how it is funny? And how the punchline is the kicker?

I bet you can’t/won’t.

Engaging in a bit of unnecessary recreational outrage roadkill. Maybe try a walk mate, all that stress’ll give you bad health outcomes mate……….

No outrage at all. I’m just trying to work out where the humour/irony/satire/provocation is?

Is it to do with democracy vs autocratic rule..protests compared to an invasion.

Any idea SG?

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Roadkill Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 10:31am

Ps…I don’t get/see a punchline either.

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soggydog Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 10:33am

I’d start with irony then go from there. Fuck mate it’s an ironic meme. There explained.

It could be explained further but for you we’ll keep it simple. Plus I don’t know if you’ve noticed. But I don’t spend all day on here trying to prove whatever the fuck I can prove. Get a fucking life you dork.

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Roadkill Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 10:37am
soggydog wrote:

I’d start with irony then go from there. Fuck mate it’s an ironic meme. There explained.

It could be explained further but for you we’ll keep it simple. Plus I don’t know if you’ve noticed. But I don’t spend all day on here trying to prove whatever the fuck I can prove. Get a fucking life you dork.

Not really. There is zero irony in comparison of a democratic country protests and an innocent country invaded by an autocratic ruler for whatever reason.

Lol. @dork.

Ps.. you didn’t explain Jack shit.

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Optimist Friday, 25 Feb 2022 at 11:25am

Truth Bomb was very good Blowy, was well said.