All Things Religion Thread

"your word is a lamp to guide my feet and a light for my path " Psalms 119:105 NLT.....and boy do we need the light ......days of secular darkness are upon us.....how good is it to know there is a God who loves us!

This thread is like….duelling christians. Each trying to out christian each other with glory to god. The world would be a far better place if there was no religion/s.

Roadkill wrote:

This thread is like….duelling christians. Each trying to out christian each other with glory to god. The world would be a far better place if there was no religion/s.

oh roadkil,l Optimist and I exchanging a few Sunday Blessings........there have been a few Country's that tried to install a Govt/regime based on Mans Secular intellect....try Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot Cambodia........

brutus wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

This thread is like….duelling christians. Each trying to out christian each other with glory to god. The world would be a far better place if there was no religion/s.

oh roadkil,l Optimist and I exchanging a few Sunday Blessings........there have been a few Country's that tried to install a Govt/regime based on Mans Secular intellect....try Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot Cambodia........

Deaths and suffering from Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot yada yada yada are nothing compared to deaths and suffering in the name of religion.
Religion has been a scam for hundreds of years..now it’s a con to make money.
However, if it brings you something good, I wish you all good luck.

Roadkill wrote:

brutus wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

This thread is like….duelling christians. Each trying to out christian each other with glory to god. The world would be a far better place if there was no religion/s.

oh roadkil,l Optimist and I exchanging a few Sunday Blessings........there have been a few Country's that tried to install a Govt/regime based on Mans Secular intellect....try Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot Cambodia........

Deaths and suffering from Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot yada yada yada are nothing compared to deaths and suffering in the name of religion.
Religion has been a scam for hundreds of years..now it’s a con to make money.
However, if it brings you something good, I wish you all good luck.

Roadkill , my point is that the life you enjoy now is based on the Bible.....regimes that did not use the Bible as a basis for law , are the one 's that I mentioned who actually killed more of their own people than any war!
For some of us , having faith/hope in a higher entity is very comforting and an easy road to follow...especially when you look where we are currently heading under a secular system!

brutus wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

brutus wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

This thread is like….duelling christians. Each trying to out christian each other with glory to god. The world would be a far better place if there was no religion/s.

oh roadkil,l Optimist and I exchanging a few Sunday Blessings........there have been a few Country's that tried to install a Govt/regime based on Mans Secular intellect....try Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot Cambodia........

Deaths and suffering from Soviet Communist Russia/China/Pol Pot yada yada yada are nothing compared to deaths and suffering in the name of religion.
Religion has been a scam for hundreds of years..now it’s a con to make money.
However, if it brings you something good, I wish you all good luck.

Roadkill , my point is that the life you enjoy now is based on the Bible.....regimes that did not use the Bible as a basis for law , are the one 's that I mentioned who actually killed more of their own people than any war!
For some of us , having faith/hope in a higher entity is very comforting and an easy road to follow...especially when you look where we are currently heading under a secular system!

What is your take on the following? Would love to hear from Optimist also
Islam?
Scientology?
Paganism?
Fairies?

And this is a serious question…no piss-take…I would really like to know how you view them and where you see their place in the world.

For Roadkill,…Islam, started by a man who wanted his own religion for wealth and power. He started by robbing caravans, expanded his grip and wealth with a gang of like minded people ….beheaded the people who took him in as a refugee and and married a 9 year old girl.
Scientology…started by a man who wrote sci fi and believed and promoted his own stories for fame and fortune. He used flattery to convince people they were superior to others to expand his reach.
Paganism…pretty much anything goes here…from god haters to multi god people and nature worshippers to straight up satanists.
Fairies….a large group within the Australian Greens.
Luke 16:31.

Optimist wrote:

For Roadkill,…Islam, started by a man who wanted his own religion for wealth and power. He started by robbing caravans, expanded his grip and wealth with a gang of like minded people ….beheaded the people who took him in as a refugee and and married a 9 year old girl.
Scientology…started by a man who wrote sci fi and believed and promoted his own stories for fame and fortune. He used flattery to convince people they were superior to others to expand his reach.
Paganism…pretty much anything goes here…from god haters to multi god people and nature worshippers to straight up satanists.
Fairies….a large group within the Australian Greens.
Luke 16:31.

So, only the religion you believe in is valid?

Imagine someone using religion for wealth and power….

Do you believe in fairies (the ones some people believe in) are real?

Brutus and Optimist, I would also like your views on homosexuality and gay marriage? Are these normal behaviours?

“Imagine someone using religion for wealth and power”
He’s got you there Optimist.
I thought Muhammad started Islam because Gabriel paid him a visit.
Care to expand on your alternative version of Muhammad’s reasoning for starting Islam.
Agnostic/Atheist myself( or somewhere in between)

Optimist, do you have any references to corroborate your version of Mohammed's life? Preferably independent.

You guys are no fun at all…roady perhaps spend some time watching the birds and the bees….and the life of their prophet its all in the Koran and the hadiths…..you can read that confronting stuff yourselves if you want to…I’m done with it…why ask me.?

Religion is a trained belief. Kids are corrupted when young and indoctrinated into believing whatever they are taught….with zero evidence. Most of us are a product of our upbringing and we gain what we know from our parents. Then the cycle repeats.

......because you posted it. And nione of the online sources said anything like that ... but I'll have a look at the Koran? Any verses come to mind?

Optimist wrote:

You guys are no fun at all…roady perhaps spend some time watching the birds and the bees….and the life of their prophet its all in the Koran and the hadiths…..you can read that confronting stuff yourselves if you want to…I’m done with it…why ask me.?

You are avoiding answering…you are now obfuscating.

Cut and run hey Optimist? A couple of questions asked and with no answer or psalm to quote, you run away. .

Funny..but not surprising as most religious folk don’t like real questions.

"He started by robbing caravans, expanded his grip and wealth with a gang of like minded people ….beheaded the people who took him in as a refugee and and married a 9 year old girl."

So the worst possible interpretation of some pretty muddy history. Not exactly a fair assessment of the evidence. In regrads to Aisha the estimates vary from 9-19 and all come from later sources (100+ years afterwards). The beheadings you refer to were not ordered or carried out by Mohammed. He referred the issue to a previous ally of those who had been captured and he ordered the beheadings.
All of wehich suggests a certain malicious intent on your part old mate and certainly something less than a Christian attitude, you know forgiveness, live in peace with your fellow man, that kind of thing.

Roadkill…you can’t have multiple truths…there can be only one and you have to seek it if you want to find it, And see where it leads you.
Blind boy….Sahih Al Bukhari 5134….. from Islam’s own highly regarded historical records.
He married her at 6 years old and she was considered pubescent enough at 9 for sex. She was never able to have children for obvious reasons. He was 53 years old
…and no, I have no interest in causing trouble but the truth helps to understand people like ISIS, Taliban,and Islamic child brides globally including Australia etc etc and these are just following their prophet to the letter….and peace??…don’t accuse me of not seeking peace with my fellow man, that’s the core of Christianity ….but you won’t achieve it by lying to yourself, you have to face reality and call out evil.

Optimist wrote:

Roadkill…you can’t have multiple truths…there can be only one and you have to seek it if you want to find it, And see where it leads you.
Blind boy….Sahih Al Bukhari 5134….. from Islam’s own highly regarded historical records.
He married her at 6 years old and she was considered pubescent enough at 9 for sex. She was never able to have children for obvious reasons. He was 53 years old
…and no, I have no interest in causing trouble but the truth helps to understand people like ISIS, Taliban,and Islamic child brides globally including Australia etc etc and these are just following their prophet to the letter….and peace??…don’t accuse me of not seeking peace with my fellow man, that’s the core of Christianity ….but you won’t achieve it by lying to yourself, you have to face reality and call out evil.

optimist , here we go again....I really don't have time to start a conversation with people who are coming from a near Zero knowledge of The Bible....it's rather ironic people asking questions about our faith and try to ask, "yeah but what do you think?"......it's not what we think, it's what the Bible says.....so go read the Bible and get back to me! LOL!!!

Optimist you quote one source out of many about Aisha. You distorted the facts about the beheading, for what? The truth that matters here is that you posted material most Muslims would find offensive for no good purpose. It seems a strange way to seek peace. If the measure of a religion's worth is how its adherents behave, then Christianity has a long and shameful record of violence and abuse, the crusades, the inquisition etc etc. My take away from your post is that at a time the leaders of the world's great religions seek unity, you seek division.

Optimist wrote:

Roadkill…you can’t have multiple truths…there can be only one and you have to seek it if you want to find it, And see where it leads you.
Blind boy….Sahih Al Bukhari 5134….. from Islam’s own highly regarded historical records.
He married her at 6 years old and she was considered pubescent enough at 9 for sex. She was never able to have children for obvious reasons. He was 53 years old
…and no, I have no interest in causing trouble but the truth helps to understand people like ISIS, Taliban,and Islamic child brides globally including Australia etc etc and these are just following their prophet to the letter….and peace??…don’t accuse me of not seeking peace with my fellow man, that’s the core of Christianity ….but you won’t achieve it by lying to yourself, you have to face reality and call out evil.

Who never called out evil when their clergy was raping young boys? Since eternity.

Quick, lets all look the other way..

Hilarious is…our religion is good the others are fake and bad and in it for the wealth and power.
Those other religions give us pure of heart a bad name.

brutus wrote:

Optimist wrote:

Roadkill…you can’t have multiple truths…there can be only one and you have to seek it if you want to find it, And see where it leads you.
Blind boy….Sahih Al Bukhari 5134….. from Islam’s own highly regarded historical records.
He married her at 6 years old and she was considered pubescent enough at 9 for sex. She was never able to have children for obvious reasons. He was 53 years old
…and no, I have no interest in causing trouble but the truth helps to understand people like ISIS, Taliban,and Islamic child brides globally including Australia etc etc and these are just following their prophet to the letter….and peace??…don’t accuse me of not seeking peace with my fellow man, that’s the core of Christianity ….but you won’t achieve it by lying to yourself, you have to face reality and call out evil.

optimist , here we go again....I really don't have time to start a conversation with people who are coming from a near Zero knowledge of The Bible....it's rather ironic people asking questions about our faith and try to ask, "yeah but what do you think?"......it's not what we think, it's what the Bible says.....so go read the Bible and get back to me! LOL!!!

This is a religion thread…not a bible thread. The bible, is nothing more than 1 part of 1 religion. Expand your thinking, Brutus. I do understand how hard it is to think for yourself once indoctrinated, so it’s not all your fault..

Roadkill, I didn’t mention anything to you except to go looking for the truth. Anyone who goes looking for it without pre conceived ideas finds it. If you can deal with “ where it leads you” then you are free indeed. Only thing is, you’ll end up right here on team Brutus and Optimist… be nice to have you aboard.

Roadkill...have you read the bible ??

So how was I indoctrinated ?

"This is a religion thread…not a bible thread. The bible, is nothing more than 1 part of 1 religion. Expand your thinking, Brutus. I do understand how hard it is to think for yourself once indoctrinated, so it’s not all your fault.."

blindboy wrote:

Optimist you quote one source out of many about Aisha. You distorted the facts about the beheading, for what? The truth that matters here is that you posted material most Muslims would find offensive for no good purpose. It seems a strange way to seek peace. If the measure of a religion's worth is how its adherents behave, then Christianity has a long and shameful record of violence and abuse, the crusades, the inquisition etc etc. My take away from your post is that at a time the leaders of the world's great religions seek unity, you seek division.

who cares if its offensive. why is the truth offensive. pretty clear records out that Mohammed was a kiddy fiddler. Aisha was nine. Not sure about the beheading quote... but we do know that ol mate Mohammed loved a good beheading. islam is arguable the most screwed up... certainly most dangerous faith that exists. if followers of islam are offended by that then they should choose another god.

The idea that there is one religious truth is deeply toxic and has been responsible for a huge amount of human misery. Humans have had thousands of different gods. Vast numbers of people never had any knowledge of your god. Billions alive now have been brought up in other religious traditions and have had zero to minimal contact with Christianity. Yet you claim your truth is the only truth, yeh right! Narrow minded? Absolutely. Intellectually vacuous? Without a doubt. Spiritually suspect? Definitively. I would like to see all tax benefits to religions dependent on them signing up to mutual recognition of their validity. I think the dogma might suddenly shift if that was applied.

brutus wrote:

Roadkill...have you read the bible ??

So how was I indoctrinated ?

"This is a religion thread…not a bible thread. The bible, is nothing more than 1 part of 1 religion. Expand your thinking, Brutus. I do understand how hard it is to think for yourself once indoctrinated, so it’s not all your fault.."

You’re reply's show how indoctrinated you are…same with Optimist.
Neither of you will understand…because that is what happens when you are indoctrinated.

Roadkill wrote:

brutus wrote:

Roadkill...have you read the bible ??

So how was I indoctrinated ?

"This is a religion thread…not a bible thread. The bible, is nothing more than 1 part of 1 religion. Expand your thinking, Brutus. I do understand how hard it is to think for yourself once indoctrinated, so it’s not all your fault.."

You’re reply's show how indoctrinated you are…same with Optimist.
Neither of you will understand…because that is what happens when you are indoctrinated.

Ah RK.....so you can't explain indoctrinated ?

I mean you mentioned parents and early indoctrination .....but what about all the very bad older people who became converts.....indoctrinated by whom?

It is disappointing that the divisive debate of which god is {true, better, real} has again been raised here given the most basic of tenets of spiritual belief are shared by all religions.

If god preaches love, tolerance, respect, empathy, care why on earth would he/she worry if a person's form of belief was from the ancient world or indigenous, formal or informal, christian or muslim or buddhist or hindi?

Surely to start with the premise my god is the one true god is disrespectful on all levels. You could also reasonably argue it is very much an extremist point of view that has and continues to lead to all sorts of conflict.

When Guy wades in you know he’s bored…..well I’ll bite for ya guy….
If…there is only one true God , then He has a way of looking at things…not lots of ways …just one…He has a design and likes the design to function as planned….He also would despise pretenders masking as other gods as their way would not be His way.
It doesn’t matter if you or I think that’s stupid or not, or not peace loving or not, it’s His way and that’s that.
But you can believe what ever you like…that’s your free choice…you can even pass judgement on God or even mock Him as you like to do a lot Guy…..let’s see how that goes for you.

Optimist wrote:

When Guy wades in you know he’s bored…..well I’ll bite for ya guy….
If…there is only one true God , then He has a way of looking at things…not lots of ways …just one…He has a design and likes the design to function as planned….He also would despise pretenders masking as other gods as their way would not be His way.
It doesn’t matter if you or I think that’s stupid or not, or not peace loving or not, it’s His way and that’s that.
But you can believe what ever you like…that’s your free choice…you can even pass judgement on God or even mock Him as you like to do a lot Guy…..let’s see how that goes for you.

So Allah could despise the Christian god as a pretender.

So this god you are talking about is not an equal opportunity type of guy? Just have to be lucky enough to be born in the right time and place or it's like a bouncer brand checking at a nightclub, sorry 'bro wrong shoes. So tell us Optimist what happens to those who never even heard of Jesus?

I’m only wishing to highlight the good in all religious or spiritual belief where it is humbly and respectfully practiced.

I think the current discussion here is divisive because I don’t see the humility and respect for others that a god would ask of his/her followers in the belief there is only one god. Quite the opposite.

“So Allah could despise the Christian god as a pretender.”
They are the same God.
The God of Abraham. If the old boy in the sky had any power he would collectively smack them(Abrahamic religions) around the back of the head and say wake up to your selves. We are one. If the old boy in the sky had any power he’d be rounding up all the other heathen religions and their followers and be saying WTF. Over hear is the real deal people. No more of that nonsense.
But apparently we have to seek him out and submit ourselves to him instead. Seems unlikely to me.

Roadkill wrote:

Optimist wrote:

When Guy wades in you know he’s bored…..well I’ll bite for ya guy….
If…there is only one true God , then He has a way of looking at things…not lots of ways …just one…He has a design and likes the design to function as planned….He also would despise pretenders masking as other gods as their way would not be His way.
It doesn’t matter if you or I think that’s stupid or not, or not peace loving or not, it’s His way and that’s that.
But you can believe what ever you like…that’s your free choice…you can even pass judgement on God or even mock Him as you like to do a lot Guy…..let’s see how that goes for you.

So Allah could despise the Christian god as a pretender.

this is where it get's repetitive...Muslims and Christians believe in the one God........Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet, but not as the son of God...whereas Christians believe in Jesus as the son of God.......

The gospel of the son of God has been preached to the four corners of the earth for thousands of years and God himself knows the hearts of every man and those who miss out on hearing will be assessed as if they did , past present and future , as God already knows the response because He knows every single soul that ever was and doesn’t exist in our timeline but in eternity where past present and future are not relevant to Him. So, He also has access to departed souls
But…I’m debating with two people who wouldn’t believe anyway , even if someone rose from the dead ….so I’m just wasting my time….as I said before…if you really want to know the truth, no matter where it takes you, you will find it, that’s a promise from God….but for many, where the truth takes you is of no interest to them , because they like their little world just the way it is….Optimist out.

Optimist wrote:

The gospel of the son of God has been preached to the four corners of the earth for thousands of years and God himself knows the hearts of every man and those who miss out on hearing will be assessed as if they did , past present and future , as God already knows the response because He knows every single soul that ever was and doesn’t exist in our timeline but in eternity where past present and future are not relevant to Him. So, He also has access to departed souls
But…I’m debating with two people who wouldn’t believe anyway , even if someone rose from the dead ….so I’m just wasting my time….as I said before…if you really want to know the truth, no matter where it takes you, you will find it, that’s a promise from God….but for many, where the truth takes you is of no interest to them , because they like their little world just the way it is….Optimist out.

I don’t believe..you are right there.

Fairies, monsters that live under your bed, god, allah….all make believe, yet they do live in some people minds.

Rising from the dead..impossible.

blindboy wrote:

So this god you are talking about is not an equal opportunity type of guy? Just have to be lucky enough to be born in the right time and place or it's like a bouncer brand checking at a nightclub, sorry 'bro wrong shoes. So tell us Optimist what happens to those who never even heard of Jesus?

It's sorta funny when I read about how people think of a God or Gods......a higher entity that we answer to.....so why can' there be one God?

Muslims and Christians believe in the same God....so reading and understanding the Bible/Koran is a start to enlightment....

Try thinking that if there was one God and who had a son , who was tortured and died on the cross, and the was resurrected.......so you try to find out what physical proof there is .... and you find out shit there's actually a lot of proof....then faith kicks in....

Optimist, so how do the long dead aborigines, aztecs, Eskimos, cannibals, etc. avoid eternity of hell fire and damnation if the entry ticket to heaven is professing faith in Jesus? God might know about them but do they get a free pass? If so why and on what basis?

They didn't miss the boat, the boat did not exist when they lived.

What if their aztec priests promoted human sacrifice and cannibalism and they complied with the only religion they knew, do they end up in hell just cause God had not got around to spreading his word (too busy? Asleep?).

Must be much stress at the pearly gates sorting out that stuff.

But I guess if mass murderers and rapists can confess and repent 10 seconds before their last breath the ticket to heaven is pretty cheap.

And if I go to heaven, do I have to hang out with the murderers and rapists who confess on their death bed? Prefer not to. Do they have to sit in a naughty corner or walk around sort of politely ignored by the nicer people for a million years?

So many question oh wise one...

Brutus you never answer a simple question previously.

Is homosexuality normal? Are gay marriages good?

Truth!! Optimist. You have no evidence that it is the Truth.
All you have is faith. What is faith? To me it’s the willingness to forgo any rational thought. To blindingly believe something that doesn’t add up. Indoctrination. Literally indoctrination.

seeds wrote:

“So Allah could despise the Christian god as a pretender.”
They are the same God.
The God of Abraham. If the old boy in the sky had any power he would collectively smack them(Abrahamic religions) around the back of the head and say wake up to your selves. We are one. If the old boy in the sky had any power he’d be rounding up all the other heathen religions and their followers and be saying WTF. Over hear is the real deal people. No more of that nonsense.
But apparently we have to seek him out and submit ourselves to him instead. Seems unlikely to me.

there's an interesting thought...submission....what does that mean....believing in the Law of God.....and in the old Testament God's wrath destroys whole civilizations .....and just so ya know Revelations prophesizes that there will be a day of judgement.......looks like sooner than later...

Roadkill wrote:

Brutus you never answer a simple question previously.

Is homosexuality normal? Are gay marriages good?

It is clear in the Bible that homosexuality is abnormal and marriage under Christian/Biblical principles therefore is not permitted!

If there is one God why didn't he spread his message more effectively? Being all
powerful doesn't leave much wiggle room for leaving the bulk of humanity in the dark about the grand plan. And yes God works in mysterious ways etc etc but the general impression I have of the Christian god is that his mysterious ways are rather medieval, irresponsible and unfair. I am very happy for people to be Christian of whatever brand they prefer but spare us the sanctimonious assertion of your certainty and attempts to impose your morality on society at large. As for homosexuality get over it. It has been common in every human culture and is just part of the wondrous mix of interesting variation that evolution has created. Anyway, Optimist reckons that all you have to do to keep your God happy is lead a good life which makes all the Jesus stuff pretty much irrelevant not to mention the old testament stuff.

seeds wrote:

Truth!! Optimist. You have no evidence that it is the Truth.
All you have is faith. What is faith? To me it’s the willingness to forgo any rational thought. To blindingly believe something that doesn’t add up. Indoctrination. Literally indoctrination.

there is a lot of physical proof which is the foundation of truth and faith!

Do you have faith that everytime you go somewhere and spend some cash that a worthless piece of paper will be accepted as currency?

Brutus, much respect - your recent comments on that other topic reflects a good deal of wisdom.

Christians and Muslims may believe in one god based on the words in their devotional books but I would imagine the vast majority of followers of both religions humbly engage in their practice without the need to preach to/convert non believers in a such way - your god wrong mine right.

We aren’t going to agree but I think this “one true” belief thing has caused so much ungodly behaviour and conflict, why can’t religions focus on what’s common?

re Revelations
So be it Brutus. If that’s the case I’m fine with it. I don’t believe it though. I believe one day us silly humans will be all gone anyway and the Earth will just continue on its merry way. Until the Earth ia also gone through some natural process.

brutus][quote=Roadkill wrote:

Brutus you never answer a simple question previously.

Is homosexuality normal? Are gay marriages good?

I’m asking you? I don’t care what the bible says.

Is homosexuality normal? Are gay marriages good?

Brutus -“Do you have faith that everytime you go somewhere and spend some cash that a worthless piece of paper will be accepted as currency?”

I don’t need to have faith in that. It happens everyday. We know it does. It’s a truth.

He doesn’t think for himself anymore RK. He can’t answer from a personal level.