All Things Religion Thread
Enjoyed watching this discussion from the sidelines chaps, thanks.
Pleasure Ben, thanks for giving us the forum to do so!
Me too. Good job trying to keep up Bonza. Pops you are a Jedi, much respect man
Ha! No, not a Jedi, just a bit of a geek. But thanks shoredump.
Respect is mutual to you and all who've been involved in these discussions :)
Funny. Stu mentions a few pages back that Cat Stevens went looking around for a religion and found Islam. Actually, I’ve seen documentary footage where he explains that one day he went for a swim, and got carried out by a rip. He was gone for all money, not a strong swimmer, and he called out to god to save him, and the rip subsided and he was able to get himself to shore, and lo and behold, another Muslim was born.
So, it all comes back to knowledge of the surf! And we are back at swellnet.
For those christians who think they are part of the saved, please be aware that there are only 900,000 chosen ones, and remember that Christians don’t believe in reincarnation, so that’s only 900K of all lives that have ever been lived, not just 900K of the current mob.
So even if you’re a Christian, your chances of getting to heaven are not much better than winning lotto.
I’m happy to read everyone’s opinion on these things, I think everyone really should be asking themselves these deeper questions. When anyone comes up with something I haven’t heard before, considered, grappled with and subsequently discarded, I’ll let you know.
The end game of genuine, serious spiritual research is that you no longer need to spend any time on spiritual research. Not that you’ve found all the answers, just that you are comfortable in a place where none of the questions you have have any earthly answers, and all of them will be answered after you die. It’s a nice place. It doesn’t mean the end of the search, it just means that you don’t have to spend time down rabbit holes.
Before YouTube rabbit holes, mankind invented religion. Go forth and multiply.
Hey batfink, where'd you get the 900k figure from?
Well said Batfink. I have looked down a few rabbits holes and fairly quickly concluded it was largely unknowable.
But some of my views on one of the major faiths were formed not through deep analysis, discussions or reading - just as gut reactions to simple statements of believers that made no sense.
A classic was at a funeral years ago where a very religious close relative died of a brain tumour leaving a young family without him. The funeral was full of intelligent university educated people who had been to a Sydney Uni known for having a strong evangelical group recruiting students (still does I think). The priest officiating eventually came round to the question of why an all loving and powerful God who controlled everything let XXXX get ill and die.
I looked at the widow and the young children facing the loss and listened intently. This is what he said as the reason:
"God needed XXXX with him in heaven"
"Wow", I thought, "is that the best reason they have got after 2000 years of theology and bible study?". A God with innumerable souls queuing up at the pearly gates and millions upon millions already there needs one more to hang out up there enough to put his family through that loss?
Quite a few of the rabbit holes only lead to that sort of deeply unsatisfying "wisdom".
How would a priest know what god wants? Has he ever been dead?
I’m of a biological bent and full evolutionist. In science we can prove most life discoveries, provide and show evidence to support research with results. I get criticism from religious folk who bag out people like me for my views but still to this day they cannot show me one thread of evidence now or in the past of God or Jesus. What a joke !!!
Here you go - sign this and then debate why god botherers dont pay tax on profits in Australia.
Good point Blowin, although the link wasn’t working when I tried it.
Catholic Church is one of the biggest property developers in the country and pay no tax. Reckon there will be any community housing in this 500 lot subdivision on the Mid North Coast?
Distracted- Is a church responsible for that abomination ?
Thanks Blowin and Distracted I’ve donated. Must protect these birds, rapidly disappearing, once again, mostly down to human interference and the loss of and destruction of key habitat and food sources like Allocasuarina sp., Casuarina sp., Banksia sp. etc.
Humans in general, ‘No Good’
The Story of St Patrick...a day late but....its raining
Turns out he was a Pom.....
The REAL story of St. Patrick's Day:
St. Patrick’s Day is celebrated every year on March 17, but why? Many who celebrate have only a vague idea that there was a real man — a Christian — named Patrick. He was born in Britain to a Christian family, but he didn’t come to know Christ until after he was kidnapped at age 15 by Irish pirates and sold to a harsh Druid man in Ireland.
Patrick was forced to work as a herdsman by his captors, and during that time he would pray for hours. At age 22, he escaped and returned to Britain. But several years later, he had a dream calling him back to Ireland to minister to the people there. Heeding the call, Patrick journeyed throughout Ireland, sharing Christ until his death, thought to have been around March 17, A.D. 461.
And that is the story of the man behind St. Patrick’s Day.
Around 750 B.C. A good friend of God named Isaiah wrote these words concerning the coming of Gods son in the future. The 53rd chapter of his famous book in the Bible says what will happen to him...These are verses 5-6.
Isaiah 53:5-6 (New International Version)
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
......Finding God through His Son is easy, because it cost Him so much.
Who are the modern good friends of God who can give us an update what he thinks or was the privilege to be his friend and to predict and have it written in The Book removed around 2000 years ago?
Can Trumpy, Scotty, Jimmy Swaggart, or Ted give us some news?
or perhaps is it guys like Carl?
Former Real Estate Broker Succeeds Carl Lentz as Hillsong NYC's New Pastor
“My name is John Termini and I’m helping lead our church right now in this season,” he began. “And I know this has been a really challenging time for our church to navigate. I want to take a moment … to say thank you that you’ve been praying with us, standing with us. We could not do this without you.”
“You know, I used to be a broker,” Termini explained. “I love brokers — thank God for brokers — but you know what’s better than a broker is the owner. Why go to a broker? Why go to an owner? Go to a dealer. His name is the Holy Spirit. He can show you access to the Father.”
They sure can raise money and move some product these modern friends of God.
and ................ Jesus wept.
The Wolf of Wall St was on TV last night
Your obsessions with a few people blind you to the reality of what happened at Easter.
Anyway, have a chocolate bunny and a few days off, it may sweeten you guys up a bit.
and that broker is an expert on afterlife without any experience of dieing.
Human sacrifice to appease gods or fulfill some purpose is a very old and strange practice that has infiltrated many societies over human history. Step back a bit from the glorified Easter story and ponder the Christ story and its connection with these these same ideas.
If a spiritual leader today said a well known spiritual person (or even a possible son of God walking around the place)we all know has to to be sacrificed to appease a god, cleanse sin or whatever, how does that sit with you? What if he / she was ritually killed on a hill somewhere on a Friday soon and we all watched? Is it not a very strange and disturbing concept once made real and current?
In the reality of Gods creation, sin and rebellion require a death penalty.That's just the way it is. All things were created through The Son and rebellion of the free thinkers occurred.
God doesn't make robots.
Instead of punishing us for our rebellion, the creator HIMSELF took the blame for the created. All past present and future. That's a whole lot of love to go and reject. I think he's awesome.
I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty....Jesus...Rev 1:8.
How did echidna s and kangaroos make it to the ark?
Blame, sin, rebellion, death penalty ..... surely a god who created the universe is beyond that petty stuff. What a miserable picture and mindset has been painted of an almighty power - by some miserable old men.
Happy Easter...When Jesus came into the world from the outside as a baby human, His destiny was set. First he had to grow up a normal man just like everyone else. He grew up and became a tradesman, a carpenter. Back then carpenters didn't build like they do now, they made large beams to support mud brick homes, they made cart wheels, farm tools etc etc. A lot of carving and handiwork involved. He did this to fulfill his role to be a typical guy and only Mary saw some supernatural things occur. At age 30, It was time. It was time to tell and teach the world Gods plan and enter into full time ministry.
He only preached and taught for 3 1/2 years and yet He completely changed the world. All nations today even calculate time by Him, but what was it that produced this influence and fame. Was it the fact that He could go to a funeral hours or days late and bring the dead back to life. He could do this because He owns life and has power over the spirit world. Or, was it the fact that He could just walk across the sea, something He could do because He owned and was more real than the sea. He also turned some large pots of water into the best wine to everyone's amazement and rescued a fading wedding and also fed 5,000 people with a kids lunch. These were only a few things but the message that humanity would be rescued by God was the main thing. Like the world today, the priests and rulers were so far from God they found Jesus offensive and hated correction, but the people loved Him. The result , the cross. He was sold out to the Romans to suffer the worst kind of execution, nailed to a cross member and hauled up a tree. The suffering Christ would give His life and take away all the sin of the world by taking it upon Himself. The hands that created the world as the son of God were now nailed, as many people mocked. His response as the life left his body was..."Father forgive them, as they don't know what they are doing".
It's that love that has saved us. The innocent for the guilty, sinless for sin , love for hate. After 3 days and nights in the heart of the earth He arose. He taught for another 40 days and then returned to where He came from. This is not "some religion", this is the "way", it is the way of God, He has His own way of doing things.
When you ponder the whole thing deeply and put aside your preconceived ideas mostly formed by years of false religious teachers and imposters of the faith and go back to Jesus the source, you will see it, if you ask truthfully from your heart.
Have a happy and great Easter with the people you love...peace.
Happy Easter optimist , going back to the source as in what did jesus teach is a beautiful thing , unfortunately man built a religion around jesus and twisted the truth, what would jesus say about the christian religions of today and the last 2000 odd years , there has been alot of crimes committed in the name of jesus. Such a mixed up world .
@brutus, happy Easter mate, hope you’re travelling well
Hi Guy , happy Easter.For Christians it's an amazing time because without the torture and death of Jesus on the cross followed by the Resurrection there would be no Christianity , so very sacred weekend for some of us!
bit of a bummer about the waves , the crowds etc...just found out this week have pretty rad Diabetes......so I embrace another life challenge...will actually be great for me.....all part of God's plan....a whole new adventure beckons....hope your travelling great and I really appreciate the civility in our conversations.
Happy Easter Supafreak and Optimist.......hope you have a great Easter and celebrate the Death of Jesus on the Cross and the resurrection...truly a magical time for Christians.....makes you look at our Secular Friends and the state of the world ......and realize there is only one hope!
Thanks Brutus , hope you get to walk to emmaus , i see they are doing it online because of covid , hard to imagine you would get the same experience , if you can put it off until its a community gathering it is worth it .
I admire your attitude Brutus .... peace
Brutus nice to hear from you, Happy Easter....Don't worry mate, the wheels are falling off my truck too...Its all part of life....I actually like getting older, its just the side effects that are crap. You'll get through it and maybe even come out better off knowing whats been ailing you...As your good friend Eric A. would say..."Enjoy the Ride!"...Shalom.
You will be pledged to be married to a woman, but another will take her and rape her. You will build a house, but you will not live in it. You will plant a vineyard, but you will not even begin to enjoy its fruit. Your ox will be slaughtered before your eyes, but you will eat none of it. Your donkey will be forcibly taken from you and will not be returned. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and no one will rescue them. . . . The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head. Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21
I see Festival Hall, the traditional big live music venue of Melbourne, was desecrated today by 500 happy clappers.
Jeez that Deuteronomy is a real downer.
“The idea that anyone leading a political party could believe that it is ‘God on our side,’ is just the stuff of real danger in my view.” – fmr prime minister @MrKRudd. #abc730 #auspol pic.twitter.com/xJivYfnsP8— abc730 (@abc730) April 28, 2021
"The Lord will afflict your knees and legs with painful boils that cannot be cured, spreading from the soles of your feet to the top of your head. Deuteronomy 28:30-31,35" - tough love - need more of them boils Lordy.
Ah the joys of the Torah.
"Thus He destroyed these cities and the entire plain, including all the inhabitants of the cities and everything that grew on the ground. But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt."
That used to sound pretty foreboding when they still read the old Testament to us in Grade 3.
Now a cross-reference:
"A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe... An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor... It was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race.
The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white.
After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."
There is nothing new under the sun.
Hey pops, sorry for my absence, I try not to read the forums too much in case it sets me off.
Where did I get the 900,000 from? Good question. That specific number was in the bible I read when I was in my early 20s. Don’t know which version, but it was definitely there, and I definitely read it.
Every time they update the bible they put things in and take things out.
Don’t know which book, but obviously would have been in the Old Testament. I think it was in the passage about only those from the twelve tribes of Israel would enter heaven, etc ...
I remember doing the maths, working out all the people who had died in the last few thousand years, plus all those currently living, and assuming all future people who will live and die, and thought to myself that’s a pretty small number.
An interesting read...
Brilliant Optimist . What a great start to the day...with the Grace of God!!
Batfink, fair enough re the forums.
Hard to comment specifically on the 900k figure without knowing where you got it from, but one quick thought:
The bible is a collection of books, each with its own particular genre and context. It's important to consider the genre when reading a book - some are straight forward prose or narrative (lending themselves to literal interpretation), some are poetry, some are Jewish apocalyptic - both of which use symbolic language meaning a literal interpretation is not always correct.
E.g. (some fairly boring analysis here, and I've struggled to write it in a concise way...) Revelation 7:4-8 (Revelation is an example of the Jewish apocalyptic genre; Daniel likewise) talks about the 144,000 who are "sealed". Note that 12 is used as a symbol for perfection/completeness (12 sons of Israel/12 apostles representing the complete number of God's people). 144 = 12x12; i.e. a complete number from each group of God's people. 1,000 is used in a similar way to 10,000 (myriad) is in classical Greek literature; i.e. it can be taken as a way of saying "a very large number". So you could read 144,000 as being a complete and very large number from each group of God's people; i.e. all of God's people. This reading makes sense in context too - the verse immediately following the 144,000 passage reads "After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb." ("Great multitude that no one could count" sounds like a lot more than 144,000! Also worth noting that Lamb = symbol for Jesus).
The historical context lends itself to such a reading too - the book was written at a time when the early church was under heavy Roman persecution under Emperor Domitian; little surprise that John would seek to write to christians to encourage them that their suffering would have no bearing on their eternity (that all of them were "sealed" by God).
Relative gets cancer spotted due to their personal attention to symptoms ... bummer... these things happen (under the watchful but passive view of the all powerful father figure).
Relative gets cured by skillful Surgeon cutting out tumour ... cool
God botherer relative visits recovering relative and smugly comments "God saved them" - leaving hanging in the air that really it was HIS god after HIS prayers (made post operation so even retrospective prayer works!) ... so he saved them.
Heads the god botherer wins, tails the skeptic loses. No credit given to patient, doctor, surgeon etc. it was all about him.
I am sure next Sunday he told the story about how his prayers saved them to the misty eyed flock.
Grates just a little.
Never read links like the one posted by Optimist but do look into the who’s who behind them. In this case it’s some obscure American based christian outfit. Enough said.
Speaking of religion Ramadan ends tonight and Lebaran/Eid al-Fitr is tomorrow (Breaking of fasting celebration)
And I will go celebrate with my muslim friends of colour this weekend, off course to me and even many of them it means little or nothing just like Christmas to most of us, just a good excuse to get together have a good feed and for some of us have a few drinks.
Is Ramadan at the same time every year?
Sure once when I was in Mayalsia/Indo in September it was Ramadan.
Here you go optimist
Not sure my motivation...my instinctive need to stick up for the underdog...my secret desire to be one day honoured rightfully with the role of Forum moderator (expecting a call any day)...
But anyway I couldn't help but read your troubles on another thread...unfortunately I found myself siding with everyone's posts...other than your own...except for the part where you were told you can't post here!
So I put my low IQ mind to coming up with a solution that suits all...and here it is...a safe place if you like
You can post anything you like about your beliefs...and no one has to read it unless they want! Easy peasy...
maybe you could even get Jesus, fat Buddha, Mohammed, and friends to converse in adult conversation here
Solving the world problems, one at a time...call it taking a shovel as a way of moving that mountain
All the best...brother
PS...I actually was born again once, but I grew up, and grew a brain of my own...and realised it was all a load of shit!