Interesting things too

factotum's picture
factotum started the topic in Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:21pm

For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Wednesday, 30 Sep 2020 at 6:50pm

That was it. I knew it was something along those lines.

1173

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 2 Oct 2020 at 9:35pm

Congrats Jacqui Lambie.

"The Coalition’s bid to ban access to mobile phones in immigration detention is set to fail, after Jacqui Lambie revealed she will oppose the bill.

The crossbench senator announced her position in an email to voters who took part in a poll she ran that found 96% oppose the bill"

What a fucking novel idea - actually asking your constituents what they want!

Via a poll!

Imagine a pollie from either of the two majors doing that.

Wouldn't happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/oct/02/jacqui-lambie-sin...

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Friday, 2 Oct 2020 at 9:50pm

A busted clock is at least right twice a day.

Lambie is old school.

Remember, a broken digital clock is senseless and useless, period.

A motser of senators fit that bill.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 2 Oct 2020 at 9:59pm

Who else has polled their constituents?
Who else has got a specific number for and against a specific issue?
Anyone from the majors?
I expect there might be some, can you point me in the right direction?

And what’s with “period”?
I’ve got no idea what you’re trying to say in that sentence anyway,

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 2 Oct 2020 at 10:02pm

Seriously though, has anyone from the majors taken a poll of their electorate and then voted accordingly (specifically when it goes against party policy)?

I’d really like to know.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Friday, 2 Oct 2020 at 10:18pm

Ever used a busted digital clock to tell the time, Andy? No display, no numbers. Never right. Senseless and useless, period. Like a certain cohort of senators.

And straight from the horse's mouth regarding this one-off (?):

"It's just a bill that extends too far for me. Most of the people in immigration detention are New Zealanders. I don't think they're paedophiles or terrorists...

I just think they're stuck, bored, and they want to use their bloody phones. They want to share goofy memes with their mates. They want to hear music. We can afford them, at least, this minor kindness."

(via her Twitter)

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 3 Oct 2020 at 7:08am

Regardless, I think my point remains - when a pollie is free from the party line and can more accurately represent the wishes of his/her constituency, it’s a better more grassroots version of democracy.

Any details on a Lib/Lab pollie representing the electorate at the expense of the party?

Must be plenty of floor crossers.

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AndyM commented Saturday, 3 Oct 2020 at 7:13am

I’m at work so a bit busy but here’s food for thought.

“the Coalition participated in 96.8% of floor crossing divisions compared to Labor’s 3.1% and the Coalition accounted for 90.2% of the individual MPs who crossed the floor compared to Labor’s 9.8%”

At the face of it, seems like Labor are way more beholden to the party line - strict discipline with no room for dissent.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parlia...

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Saturday, 3 Oct 2020 at 9:11am

I know this is not particularly interesting, but for the last couple of months I've started looking at the surf cams daily just to get a squiz on what's happening surfwise around Oz. Is it me, or is Victoria having the worst run of surf ever? Seems borderline flat day in day out.

Feeling for you guys- double whammy going on down there. Hope you get some meaningful swell soon.

1173

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 4 Oct 2020 at 10:28pm

I'm surprised no-one was interested in the Coalition's 96.8% vs. Labor's 3.1% floor crossing percentages.

I think that's pretty bloody interesting.

Michael Bourne's picture
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Michael Bourne commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 12:56am

'I'm surprised no-one was interested in the Coalition's 96.8% vs. Labor's 3.1% floor crossing percentages.

I think that's pretty bloody interesting.'

'I think that's pretty bloody interesting.'

Mmmmm... ok... well... ok... perhaps I can help, and make your rivetted, although long gone... mmmaaayyyteees... night even more rivetingly ... interesting... Mandy...M...

Care to tease that out for all your interested maaaayyyteees... perhaps they'll come back... tomorrow... Mandy...M... I mean, interest them on by all means!!! Take as long as you like, months... years even...

Michael Bourne's picture
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Michael Bourne commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 1:10am

Or ya could try giving goofer a buzz...

goofyfoot's picture
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goofyfoot commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 6:28am

Morning Michael! Up late last night teachin those swillnutters a lesson again I see.

Zen if you’ve just been checking Torquay it would seem that way but east and west of there have had a great 6 months of surf I think.
Lots of beachie sized days with a few bigger ones thrown in with lots of offshore winds

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 8:41am

Shit Mick, you really put me in my place.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 11:25am

"I'm surprised no-one was interested in the Coalition's 96.8% vs. Labor's 3.1% floor crossing percentages.

I think that's pretty bloody interesting."

it is most interesting andym

I think you'll find it comes down to lib's 'broad church' philosophy versus labor's stifling rules in conformity ...errr, I mean unity...

both have their merits, or not...

maybe ask peter garrett

Michael Bourne's picture
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Michael Bourne commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 10:38am

Bonded swillnuts! This lineup is your place MandyM, but it’s ok, you’re a late bloomer as you said, which explains some of it, in the real world line up, you’re a bit (quite a bit) quieter there... they reckon!!!

zenagain's picture
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zenagain commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 10:43am

Hi Goof, I just have a quick squiz in the morning at some regular Oz beaches and Torquay is the cam I look at and seems to be an extended flat spell. Glad it's not the case for the whole coast, you'd be going bonkers.

1173

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 10:45am

Glad you think so Syppo.

Labor -

"Labor Party members have not been allowed a free vote on issues covered in the party platform and, by the 1920s as the platform expanded and included more detail, 'few issues were now outside the platform and the members voted together on almost every occasion'"

And the Libs are only slightly less strict -

"... it is important that it be recognised by all Liberal Parliamentarians that the general expectation is one of loyalty and support for the Party in the Parliament, and that crossing the floor is to be regarded as an exceptional act.

Flip sides of the same coin?

In contrast, The Greens take this position -

"if in the opinion of the elected member, their duty to the constituents is in conflict with The Greens' national policy then elected Members may vote according to their duty to their constituents ... and where the views of elected Members are in conflict with The Greens' policy, then the elected Member may vote according to their conscience"

It seems like the two majors are a pretty poor form of democracy then, with elected representatives having no real incentive to drill right down into the details of what the electorate actually wants.

Compare this with the freedom of Jacqui Lambie and even The Greens to be a lot more in touch with the voters and to express this accordingly.

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parlia...

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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 10:50am

You should be a fortune teller Madam Zoltar, I mean, Mick!
Keep throwing 'em out there.


high quality image upload

batfink's picture
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batfink commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 11:10am

The crossing the floor thingy probably interesting if you didn’t know how things work, but less so when you know the rules.

A Labor Party member has to resign from the Party to cross the floor. That’s all. It’s not conscription or anything untoward, they sign up for it when they become Labor Party representatives. It’s their rules, and their party, and they can make whatever rules they like.

That’s why it is a big deal within the Labor Party that if there is a contentious issue they will call for a conscience vote. That mean they aren’t bound by a party position. So to get the real figures you would have to work out how many times the Labor Party has allowed conscience votes, which is a bit, but not a lot.

The libs also on occasions will entertain conscience votes, but mostly they don’t need to as they have a tradition of crossing the floor, it is allowed for in their party rules.

Much of the LNP floor crossing has been from National Party members to get their name in the papers (Barnaby Joyce did it often). Prior to that, in the 80s and 90s it was a mor regular thing as the Libs had ‘wets’ and ‘dries’ (factions) before the wets were all run out of the party. Essentially the ‘wets’ were anyone who wasn’t a heartless bastard or who displayed any concern for the environment.

These days the Libs are just heartless bastards and religious fanatics. The National Party is almost exclusively just guys setting themselves up for very highly paid gigs with coal and gas companies after they leave politics, and don’t represent the farmers at all. That’s why the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party is going to eat their lunch.

So, no Andym, it isn’t surprising at all.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 11:13am

Cheers Batfink.

Michael Bourne's picture
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Michael Bourne commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 11:23am

Now now Mandy, don’t get upset!! It’s understandable, you already explained, well, apologised, when you got it off ya chest about ‘that’ ‘late bloomer’ ‘situation’. You’ve bonded here, found your feet here but, that’s the main thing aaaayyyeeee!!!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 11:56am

Upset? I've been inconsolable.

I am thrilled to have my own personal stalker/fortune teller/support group though, it's quite special.

Michael Bourne's picture
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Michael Bourne commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 12:04pm

And what a hardcore little support group you’ve found here in your other life Mandy/MindyM!!! And how you’ve reached out and burst out of your shell... who cares how bloomin’ late you are!!! In a nutshell!!!

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 2:12pm

Andy, being an active member of #teambartholomew would you, hypothetically, cross the floor, so to speak?

I'm interested in the policies that the coalition put up, or have ever put up, that have been worth crossing the floor for?!

On the other hand, and taking into account Bat Fink's explanation, why so many Libs/Nats have crossed fhe floor over the decades?

A side note: any stats about abstention, I wonder?

ringmaster's picture
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ringmaster commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 12:19pm

Has been surf most days in the Torquay general area Zen. Plenty of 2 - 4ft days with good winds and been no need to travel very far East or West. We didn't have an epic Winter but by and large there's been enough surf to keep most of us fairly happy.

Plus, it's been relatively crowd free due to the travel restrictions.

*Sorry for interrupting, everyone else! Please carry on with whatever the political flavour of the day is..........

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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 12:18pm

You're my support group Mick.

Facto what's the go with this Rabbit thing??
I'm not following.

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AndyM commented Monday, 5 Oct 2020 at 12:23pm

Fair point though, is it just that LNP have the shittiest policies?
And a very fair point made by Batfink that National floor crossing is arguably a publicity stunt.

I still think my point remains - the two majors, backed by the two party system and preferential voting in the Lower House are a bull's roar from a good version of democracy.
Break it up and get some consensus democracy going.

Share, disperse and limit the power.

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AndyM commented Saturday, 17 Oct 2020 at 8:13pm

Bob Brown talking about cutting population levels, in The Australian no less.

“The human herd at eight billion is the greatest herd of mammals ever on this planet and it is unsustainable to have that growing.”

And almost inexplicably, Greenpeace, the Australian Conservation Foundation and the Wilderness Society said they did not discuss the issue of population growth.

What kind of environmental agency doesn't want to acknowledge the effect of population growth??

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bob-brown-urges-green-movement-t...