For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.
That was it. I knew it was something along those lines.
Congrats Jacqui Lambie.
"The Coalition’s bid to ban access to mobile phones in immigration detention is set to fail, after Jacqui Lambie revealed she will oppose the bill.
The crossbench senator announced her position in an email to voters who took part in a poll she ran that found 96% oppose the bill"
What a fucking novel idea - actually asking your constituents what they want!
Via a poll!
Imagine a pollie from either of the two majors doing that.
A busted clock is at least right twice a day.
Lambie is old school.
Remember, a broken digital clock is senseless and useless, period.
A motser of senators fit that bill.
Who else has polled their constituents?
Who else has got a specific number for and against a specific issue?
Anyone from the majors?
I expect there might be some, can you point me in the right direction?
And what’s with “period”?
I’ve got no idea what you’re trying to say in that sentence anyway,
Seriously though, has anyone from the majors taken a poll of their electorate and then voted accordingly (specifically when it goes against party policy)?
I’d really like to know.
Ever used a busted digital clock to tell the time, Andy? No display, no numbers. Never right. Senseless and useless, period. Like a certain cohort of senators.
And straight from the horse's mouth regarding this one-off (?):
"It's just a bill that extends too far for me. Most of the people in immigration detention are New Zealanders. I don't think they're paedophiles or terrorists...
I just think they're stuck, bored, and they want to use their bloody phones. They want to share goofy memes with their mates. They want to hear music. We can afford them, at least, this minor kindness."
(via her Twitter)
Regardless, I think my point remains - when a pollie is free from the party line and can more accurately represent the wishes of his/her constituency, it’s a better more grassroots version of democracy.
Any details on a Lib/Lab pollie representing the electorate at the expense of the party?
Must be plenty of floor crossers.
I’m at work so a bit busy but here’s food for thought.
“the Coalition participated in 96.8% of floor crossing divisions compared to Labor’s 3.1% and the Coalition accounted for 90.2% of the individual MPs who crossed the floor compared to Labor’s 9.8%”
At the face of it, seems like Labor are way more beholden to the party line - strict discipline with no room for dissent.
I know this is not particularly interesting, but for the last couple of months I've started looking at the surf cams daily just to get a squiz on what's happening surfwise around Oz. Is it me, or is Victoria having the worst run of surf ever? Seems borderline flat day in day out.
Feeling for you guys- double whammy going on down there. Hope you get some meaningful swell soon.
I'm surprised no-one was interested in the Coalition's 96.8% vs. Labor's 3.1% floor crossing percentages.
I think that's pretty bloody interesting.
'I'm surprised no-one was interested in the Coalition's 96.8% vs. Labor's 3.1% floor crossing percentages.
I think that's pretty bloody interesting.'
'I think that's pretty bloody interesting.'
Mmmmm... ok... well... ok... perhaps I can help, and make your rivetted, although long gone... mmmaaayyyteees... night even more rivetingly ... interesting... Mandy...M...
Care to tease that out for all your interested maaaayyyteees... perhaps they'll come back... tomorrow... Mandy...M... I mean, interest them on by all means!!! Take as long as you like, months... years even...
Or ya could try giving goofer a buzz...
Morning Michael! Up late last night teachin those swillnutters a lesson again I see.
Zen if you’ve just been checking Torquay it would seem that way but east and west of there have had a great 6 months of surf I think.
Lots of beachie sized days with a few bigger ones thrown in with lots of offshore winds
Shit Mick, you really put me in my place.
"I'm surprised no-one was interested in the Coalition's 96.8% vs. Labor's 3.1% floor crossing percentages.
I think that's pretty bloody interesting."
it is most interesting andym
I think you'll find it comes down to lib's 'broad church' philosophy versus labor's stifling rules in conformity ...errr, I mean unity...
both have their merits, or not...
maybe ask peter garrett
Bonded swillnuts! This lineup is your place MandyM, but it’s ok, you’re a late bloomer as you said, which explains some of it, in the real world line up, you’re a bit (quite a bit) quieter there... they reckon!!!
Hi Goof, I just have a quick squiz in the morning at some regular Oz beaches and Torquay is the cam I look at and seems to be an extended flat spell. Glad it's not the case for the whole coast, you'd be going bonkers.
Glad you think so Syppo.
"Labor Party members have not been allowed a free vote on issues covered in the party platform and, by the 1920s as the platform expanded and included more detail, 'few issues were now outside the platform and the members voted together on almost every occasion'"
And the Libs are only slightly less strict -
"... it is important that it be recognised by all Liberal Parliamentarians that the general expectation is one of loyalty and support for the Party in the Parliament, and that crossing the floor is to be regarded as an exceptional act.
Flip sides of the same coin?
In contrast, The Greens take this position -
"if in the opinion of the elected member, their duty to the constituents is in conflict with The Greens' national policy then elected Members may vote according to their duty to their constituents ... and where the views of elected Members are in conflict with The Greens' policy, then the elected Member may vote according to their conscience"
It seems like the two majors are a pretty poor form of democracy then, with elected representatives having no real incentive to drill right down into the details of what the electorate actually wants.
Compare this with the freedom of Jacqui Lambie and even The Greens to be a lot more in touch with the voters and to express this accordingly.
You should be a fortune teller Madam Zoltar, I mean, Mick!
Keep throwing 'em out there.
high quality image upload
The crossing the floor thingy probably interesting if you didn’t know how things work, but less so when you know the rules.
A Labor Party member has to resign from the Party to cross the floor. That’s all. It’s not conscription or anything untoward, they sign up for it when they become Labor Party representatives. It’s their rules, and their party, and they can make whatever rules they like.
That’s why it is a big deal within the Labor Party that if there is a contentious issue they will call for a conscience vote. That mean they aren’t bound by a party position. So to get the real figures you would have to work out how many times the Labor Party has allowed conscience votes, which is a bit, but not a lot.
The libs also on occasions will entertain conscience votes, but mostly they don’t need to as they have a tradition of crossing the floor, it is allowed for in their party rules.
Much of the LNP floor crossing has been from National Party members to get their name in the papers (Barnaby Joyce did it often). Prior to that, in the 80s and 90s it was a mor regular thing as the Libs had ‘wets’ and ‘dries’ (factions) before the wets were all run out of the party. Essentially the ‘wets’ were anyone who wasn’t a heartless bastard or who displayed any concern for the environment.
These days the Libs are just heartless bastards and religious fanatics. The National Party is almost exclusively just guys setting themselves up for very highly paid gigs with coal and gas companies after they leave politics, and don’t represent the farmers at all. That’s why the Shooters, Fishers and Farmers party is going to eat their lunch.
So, no Andym, it isn’t surprising at all.
Now now Mandy, don’t get upset!! It’s understandable, you already explained, well, apologised, when you got it off ya chest about ‘that’ ‘late bloomer’ ‘situation’. You’ve bonded here, found your feet here but, that’s the main thing aaaayyyeeee!!!
Upset? I've been inconsolable.
I am thrilled to have my own personal stalker/fortune teller/support group though, it's quite special.
And what a hardcore little support group you’ve found here in your other life Mandy/MindyM!!! And how you’ve reached out and burst out of your shell... who cares how bloomin’ late you are!!! In a nutshell!!!
Andy, being an active member of #teambartholomew would you, hypothetically, cross the floor, so to speak?
I'm interested in the policies that the coalition put up, or have ever put up, that have been worth crossing the floor for?!
On the other hand, and taking into account Bat Fink's explanation, why so many Libs/Nats have crossed the floor over the decades?
A side note: any stats about abstention, I wonder?
Has been surf most days in the Torquay general area Zen. Plenty of 2 - 4ft days with good winds and been no need to travel very far East or West. We didn't have an epic Winter but by and large there's been enough surf to keep most of us fairly happy.
Plus, it's been relatively crowd free due to the travel restrictions.
*Sorry for interrupting, everyone else! Please carry on with whatever the political flavour of the day is..........
You're my support group Mick.
Facto what's the go with this Rabbit thing??
I'm not following.
Fair point though, is it just that LNP have the shittiest policies?
And a very fair point made by Batfink that National floor crossing is arguably a publicity stunt.
I still think my point remains - the two majors, backed by the two party system and preferential voting in the Lower House are a bull's roar from a good version of democracy.
Break it up and get some consensus democracy going.
Share, disperse and limit the power.
Bob Brown talking about cutting population levels, in The Australian no less.
“The human herd at eight billion is the greatest herd of mammals ever on this planet and it is unsustainable to have that growing.”
And almost inexplicably, Greenpeace, the Australian Conservation Foundation and the Wilderness Society said they did not discuss the issue of population growth.
What kind of environmental agency doesn't want to acknowledge the effect of population growth??
Stranger than fiction.
The Guardian finally goes full retard.
"Breakdancing presents a radical and vibrant means of questioning power and authority"
Especially when it's in the Olympics.
Full gonzo indeed. This year has been terrible for The Guardian, IMO.
Yeah considering they're a corporate outlet, their "we're sticking it to the man" schtick is pretty transparent.
Prime example of "the neoliberal co-optation of identity politics".
To be fair even the Guardian comments section was taking the piss out of that article. But the Olympics itself he's had a long history of 'odd' sports and artistic pursuits. Tug-of-war and architecture being two of many, and of course who could overlook live pigeon shooting...
Bob Carr on high levels of population growth, from The Australian no less.
"Mr Carr said the COVID-19 pandemic, which has caused overseas immigration to grind to a halt, gave Australia the chance for a policy reset not just on population, but on the “oversimplified” foundations of our domestic product — exporting minerals and building apartment blocks.
“This is an opportunity to challenge the facile consensus in Canberra and business that the only population approach we can have is ‘more’,” Mr Carr told The Australian.
“A smart country doesn’t just depend on artificially high immigration to generate building of shopping malls and apartment blocks.
“Our economic growth has been all about ramping up population growth, not lifting productivity. We’ve settled for overall growth, not smarter growth."
Thank you Bob Carr.
Some things I can’t get on board with Bob Carr but this isn’t one of them.
Interesting stuff: conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn over next couple of days.
Last happened in 1226
So cool to watch Jupiter and Saturn align, such a rare event and you can watch the planets on camera online. Amazing. Get on VJ link above it happens in 5 min.
Think my 5 min countdown was for East coast US? Anyway you can watch the planets online via a very zoomed in telescopic camera which is good enough for me. I do have an antique English sailors telescope like the pirates use in the movies which is excellent for seeing if fishing boats are having any luck but it has no stand and I wouldn’t know were to aim it anyway, besides the sky. I would probably end up zoomed in on someone’s distant Christmas lights, saying wow a lot, amazed at the vivid colours, wondering why they seem to flash in some odd staggered rhythm. Could it be to do with X-rays? Have I triggered a flash back? No end of trouble.
Some things best left to the experts. Saturn looks so cool.
Bob Carr when he was premier once said (something like) "Sydney is full" and he backed off on development. He's a pretty smart guy I think and worth listening to sometimes.
Cool VJ and sickaz. Not sure we are in the right part of the planet to have watched it happen, setting time of 10.01 pm, conjunction at 10.33 pm.
Doesn’t matter, they move slowly, relative to our eye, so a check of the skies after dark should enable you some good vision, but it’s been mighty cloudy round these parts lately. WA swellnetters would have been able to see the conjunction if the skies were clear.
Watching on YouTube isn’t the same.
We got a bit of a glimpse as they approached and the cloud cleared toward the western sky as it darkened. Jupiter and Saturn have been racing all year across the sky, and yes Batfink agree, always better to see it yourself. Saturn appeared more faint (distance) and lower than Jupiter when we saw, so it looked like a dual-star, close together.
Arg okay that's why my new age lefty friends on social media are banging on about universe stuff and Uluru?
One guy i know even traveled all the way from QLD to Uluru for some special universe event, he always goes to all that burins man, aquaris crap.
Did look nice out there though.
Indo has new age lefty friends. It’s a Xmas miracle. ;-)
Yes Indo, that's what they were going on about. FWIW it takes a while, a few hundred years, to transition from one sign of the zodiac to another - afaik. The amount of times the hippies have jumped the gun declaring the age of Aquarius... and it's important to note different groups are differently timing differing ages, there's not agreement. There's no agreement in India either, whether we have left the Kali Yuga* or are still in it. The final baktun count on the Mayan calendar ended in 2012, and nothing's been weird since then. Eh? Celestially, once the sunrise on a certain day of the year enters the new constellation, is that the defining point of shift in an age?
It's important to note that without all the hoo-ha, the equinoxes (and thus the consellations we see) will move around the ecliptic caused by the cyclic precession of the earth's axis of rotation. They're going to do it anyway.
Just out of interest
dawn of Age of Leo 12,000+ years ago - civilisation wiped off the map by Younger Dryas Event (climate change! rising sea levels!) Much evidence for this. Randall Carlson has perhaps correlated worldwide civilisations ending with certain crossover points on the 'great wheel'; and his geologic interpretation of the North West US landscape as the result of a great flood event is both eye opening and compelling. The inferred numbers for water flow are absolutely stupendous. Oh yeah, we are at one of those crossroads... exactly... right... now.
*Kali Yuga being roughly agreed as beginning after the Battle of Kurukshetra ending the Mahabharata war. As an edit, let's quote the correct passage:
"A single projectile charged with all the power in the Universe… An incandescent column of smoke and flame as bright as 10,000 suns, rose in all its splendor… It was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes an entire race. The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. Their hair and nails fell out, pottery broke without any apparent cause, and the birds turned white. After a few hours, all foodstuffs were infected. To escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves into the river."
What does that sound like? Perhaps just religion, but J.Robert Oppenheimer was inspired by it...
I did a trip out to Siding Springs two years ago, coinciding with science week. A highlight was seeing the “rings” quite clearly through one of the telescopes there
Cool link VJ, I was ignorant to the concept of ‘precession’. The ‘vertical’ axis of the earth does a full rotation every 26000 years! Does that mean that in 13000 years, in relation to the sun, the earth will be upside down and the sun will travel the opposite direction across the sky? In 6500 years will there be a part of the earth in permanent darkness? Oh Jesus I don’t need these questions keeping me up on Christmas Eve it’s gonna be an early start tomorrow.
Do I have my wires crossed. I don’t know if I understand that diagram, I am perplexed. Great I am gonna be thinking about this all night for sure.