Interesting things too

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 21 Nov 2019 at 2:21pm

For when one interesting things thread isn't enough.

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blowfly Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 12:42pm

If you are worried about cognitive impairment, why not ask the experts?

Rear Admiral Ronny L. Jackson Chief Physician to the President
The White House Medical Unit
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington,
DC 20500

Dear Rear Admiral Jackson,

January 11, 2018
Thank you for your long service to the nation. As healthcare and mental health professionals, we respect the significant responsibility you have to monitor and ensure the health and well-being of the President of the United States of America – not just on his behalf, but on behalf of all Americans.
We are fully aware that you are scheduled to perform a physical examination on President Donald Trump on Friday, January 12th. The White House has stated that the President will not receive any “psychiatric” testing as part of the physical examination you will be conducting. We strongly advise and encourage you to follow standard medical procedures for a physical examination conducted on patients 66 years and older according to Medicare guidelines. As such, your examination should include an evaluation of the 71-year old President’s neurological health, including cognitive and mental health functions.
Without performing an evaluation of this kind, President Trump would be receiving care that is inadequate to the standard care regularly administered to millions of Americans covered by Medicare. Equally important, without this evaluation, the American people will not have a clear understanding about the health and well-being of the President, which is essential for Americans to know of any president.
This is especially true at a time of increasing concern over the President’s:
• Declining faculties for complex thought, rambling speech, difficulty completing a thought
• Episodes of slurred speech
• Failure to recognize old friends
• Frequent repetition of the same concepts
• Decreased fine motor coordination
• Difficulties reading, listening and comprehending
• Suspect judgment, planning, problem solving and impulse control
• Markedly declining vocabulary in recent years, with over reliance on superlatives
Your examination should also include a basic dementia screen such as the Montreal Cognitive Assessment, and as thorough a neurological examination as you can perform given your specialty as an internist. Your duty to this patient and the country that employs you as an officer of the United States Navy is to refer your patient to specialist care if any elements of your neurological and psychiatric examination yield pertinent results. Your threshold for such referral
should be low given this patient’s position. Relevant specialties you should consider for referral if needed include but are not limited to: Neurology, psychiatry, physiatry and neuropsychology.
You should also be aware of an editorial authored by former President Jimmy Carter in 1994 in the Journal of the American Medical Association, in which he explained how the country is in “continuing danger” from the possibility that a president could become mentally disabled "particularly by a neurological illness.” President Carter proposed a presidential fitness committee that could regularly assess a president’s neurological status by routinely administering a battery of cognitive tests to assess judgment, recall, decision-making and attention. Many of us in the medical and mental health communities agree wholeheartedly, and such a measure has been proposed by Congressman Jamie Raskin (H.R. 1987). But we do not currently have such a committee. We have only you.
The Office of the President of the United States is the most powerful office in the world and its history. As such, medical care, medical evaluations and the medical status of the President have significant implications for the American people, who the President serves.
As medical and mental health professionals, we are fully aware that a diagnosis can only be made by an evaluating physician. In our professional judgment, the growing concern over President Trump’s health is not only reasonable, but essential considering the office that he holds and the grave responsibilities and extensive powers of this public office.
Dr. Jackson, we do not envy you for overseeing a clinical examination this week under such scrutiny. However, this is also an opportunity in which you can stand for the best of the medical profession, simply by doing what you were trained to do.
We strongly encourage you to examine the patient before you as he is, without fear or favor, and make any reasonable recommendations for further testing or referrals that your thorough screening suggests are appropriate. The health of the President relies on it – as do American lives and the safety of our nation.
Sincerely,
Steven Buser, MD, Psychiatrist, NC
John D. Gartner, Ph.D. Psychologist, MD
David M. Reiss, MD, Psychiatrist, CA
Arthur L. Caplan, Ph.D., Bioethics, NY
Michael P. Alexander, MD, Neurologist, MA
Everett Siegel, MD, Psychiatrist, Psychoanalyst, MD
Amy Miller, Psy.D., Psychologist, NY
Jerri Curry, Ph.D., LMFT, CATC, Marriage and Family Therapist, CA Ilene English, MFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, CA

Irene Cohen, Ph.D., Psychologist, CA
Susanne Kohn Eyman, Ph.D., Psychologist, KS
Jen Alexander, LCSW, NC
Yoni Freedhoff, MD, Ottawa
Julia Dresner Kozusko, MA, LPC, Counselor, CO
Lynne Meyer, Psy. D., Psychologist, CA
Frank George, Ph.D., Psychologist, CO
Marilyn Unger-Riepe, MA, MSW, LCSW, Social Worker, MA
Allegra Rouss, LCSW, Social Worker, CA
Robert Lindberg, LCSW, Social Worker, WA
Nathan Jones, MS PPS, School Psychologist, CA
Ginny Trierweiller, Ph.D., Psychologist, CO
Alan Wikler, Psy.D., Psychologist, NY
Eileen A. McAndrews, LCSW, Social Worker, CT
Deborah Redding-Stewart, MA, LMFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, CA Shoshna Marchand, PMNHP-BC, Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner, MA Shake Topalian, MA, RN, PMHCNS-BC, Psychiatric Nurse, Psychoanalyst Allison Brownlow, Ph.D., Psychologist, Psychoanalyst, MD
Marje Steinfeld, Ph.D., Psychologist, NY
Janan Broadbent, Ph.D., Psychologist, MD
Carolyn Janowski, MA, CDMS, LPC, Counselor, OH
J. Arthur Gleiner, M.D. Primary Care Physician, MA
David Epstein, Ph.D., Psychologist, MD
Karen Vedus, LMFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, VT
Elaine Lacognata, LCSW, Social Worker, NY
Pablo Hagemeyer, M.D., Psychiatrist, Germany
Suzanne Lachman, Psy.D., NY
Barbara Kaufman, Ph.D., Psychologist, MD
Renee Sanger-Albert, J.D., MFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, CO
Diane Kruek Mahoney, Ph.D., Psychologist, MA
Alison Gartner, Ph.D., Psychologist, MD

Claude Guillemard, MS, Counselor, MD
Hal Brown, MSW, Social Worker, OR
Susan Radant, Ph.D., Psychologist, Psychoanalyst, WA
Susan Eyman, Ph.D., Psychologist, KS
Sherry Amatenstein, LCSW, Social Worker, NY
Katelyn Daniels, LCPC, Counselor, IL
Rose Phelps, LMFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, CA
Melanie McGhee, LCSW, Social Worker, TN
Denise Krouse, MC, MDFT, Counselor, WA
Amy Somers, LPCC, Counselor, CA
Michael Checkenoff, LCSW, Social Worker, MD
Walter Windisch, Ph.D., Psychologist, MD
Elliot Ivanhoe, M.D., General Practitioner, CA
Aimee C. Quast, LMFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, OR
Noelle Naiden, LCPC, School Psychologist, MT
Barbara Cunningham, Psy.D., Psychologist, CA
Elizabeth Clemmons Post, MSCC, Counselor, PA
Neil Friedman, Ph.D., Psychologist, NY
Katelyn Daniels, LCPC, Counselor, IL
Alissa Hirshfeld-Flores, MFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, CA
Ma’ayn Greenbaum, Ph.D., Psychologist, NJ
Marianne Rudzewicz, LCSW, Social Worker, FL
Ronda Hood, LMHC, Counselor, IA
Patricia Quinliven Anderson, RN, LPCC, Counselor, IL
Heather Pugh, LMHC, SAP, CAP, Counselor, PA
Gillian Marrah, LICSW, Social Worker, WA
Ole von Frausing-Borch, MSed, RN, LMFT, Marriage and Family Therapist, CA Gillian Marrah, LICSW, Social Worker, WA
Bess Hauf, LCPC, Counselor, MD
Beatty Cohan, MSW, LCSW, AAS, Social Worker, NY
Evelyn Abramson, Ph.D., Psychologist, OH

Kristen Sobkowiak, MA, LMHC, CDP, Counselor, WA Cyma Wilson, Psy.D., Psychologist, HI
Wendy von Weiderhold, Ph.D., Psychologist, CA Linda Landow Young, LCSW Social Worker, CT

DudeSweetDudeSweet's picture
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DudeSweetDudeSweet Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 1:14pm

Yes, apolitical. There are particular outcomes which I’d wish for our world but I’ve relinquished myself to the fact that boosting for individual politicians and their respective parties is , for the most part , nothing more substantial an activity than barracking for a sporting team.

Here’s a loose analogy . I’m a football fan who appreciates the skills and talent required to play the sport. I love nothing more than a well executed play or a deft control of the ball. Up until recently I’d found pleasure in the combative argument amongst fans as to the virtues and shortcomings of players and teams. We all pledged unshakeable allegiance to clubs which swapped and changed players with zero regard for loyalty or heritage. Sure , there is a superficial devotion to the club by players and management, but this was mostly overridden by profit motive and power within the clubs and immediate remuneration by the players. The dedicated fans were a means to an end and this is writ large with every price hike in tickets to the game , every loss of freedom at the ground and every increase in surcharge at the kiosk. The fans live or die by their teams , whilst the teams themselves behave without true sentiment beyond that required to operate as a successful business.

I’ve recently found myself staring curiously at those die hard fans , amongst whom I previously numbered , and wondering if and when they’ll come to the moment of simply not caring about the theatre employed by the license holders who profit from the game.

Back to politics....when I think of Trump I think of his belligerent attitude towards the people living their lives in Scotland who just happened to dwell in a location which was inconvenient for Trump’s urge to generate more and more money . Trump is to golf what Dirk Ziff is to surfing.

https://www.bbcamerica.com/anglophenia/2012/12/anti-trump-farmer-michael...

That example neatly encompasses all you really need to know about Donald Trump. He wants more than he already has , which is more than anyone could possibly need and he’s willing to destroy the lives of others to attain it.

Whilst Biden has already been in office for 50 years and has done nothing but expand the global warfront costing innocent lives ( Syria , Yemen ) and enhance the inequality of wealth amongst US citizens. The chances of him turning his ship around and radically reinventing himself at 77 years of age is zero. Neither man deserves defending or elevation against the other.

I get that you probably enjoy the conflict when trying to convince those who barrack for the opposing team of their mistake , but I’ve lost that urge. If you choose to ignore my opinion that Biden is displaying signs of mental deterioration , which I’ve recognised from my experience, then so be it. Please don’t misinterpret or project your prerogative onto my intentions.

Political partisanship may be an amusement but it’s rapidly morphing into a serious impediment to securing a decent future for the average citizen. Public displays of blind allegiance to any political party is an indulgence we can no longer entertain. The stalemate faced by unyielding partisanship is not driving us forward , it is renting unnecessary divisions in society which could possibly distort beyond any rational measure. The shouting voices need to be hushed so that productive discussion can resume.

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goofyfoot Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 1:07pm

The two old sparring partners back at it again!

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blowfly Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 1:09pm

Aaah! The switch of focus. No more concerns about cognitive decline, it's really about policy.
"Whilst Biden has already been in office for 50 years and has done nothing but expand the global warfront costing innocent lives ( Syria , Yemen ) and enhance the inequality of wealth amongst US citizens. "
Given that this is true of every other US politician, what were the Democrats suppposed to do? Wait for the second coming?

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 1:17pm

It’s a shame if I’ve got to reiterate every point I make to override any wilful disregard of intent.

Don’t think I’ll bother.

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blowfly Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 1:42pm

Tactical switch leads to strategic retreat ha ha ha!

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 1:55pm

I think that if you consider what I’ve written, you’ll find that I was never contradicting anything you said . In fact we weren’t actually debating anything. I put forward an opinion and you misrepresented my intent. You’ve just had an argument with yourself. I hope that’s not indicative of future interactions on this forum.

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blowfly Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 2:08pm

Dude:
“The evidence available to suggest Biden’s mental decline is not the result of political smoke and mirrors by the opposition, nor is it the result of propaganda or rumour mongering.”

Blowfly:
“ Biden's speech at the convention, as widely reported, clearly demonstrated that he is not in cognitive decline.”

Dude:
“ I’ll leave you with the concept that my opinion is apolitical.”

Blowfly:
“ It's politics mate, you attacked the mental capacity of a candidate with no record of related medical problems based on nothing more than You Tube edits.........FFS how can that be “apolitical”?"

Dude:
”Whilst Biden has already been in office for 50 years and has done nothing but expand the global warfront costing innocent lives ( Syria , Yemen ) and enhance the inequality of wealth amongst US citizens. "

Blowfly:
”Given that this is true of every other US politician, what were the Democrats suppposed to do? Wait for the second coming?”

Dude:
“ In fact we weren’t actually debating anything. I put forward an opinion and you misrepresented my intent.”

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 2:14pm

I rendered both Presidential candidates as equally unpalatable in my effort to prove my impartiality. Whether you’ve overlooked this on purpose or through miscomprehension is of no real interest. I’m not sure why you are so determined to provoke and don’t think I’ll stick around to find out.

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indo-dreaming Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 3:18pm

"The two old sparring partners back at it again!"

Is DudeSweetDudeSweet Blowin?

I didnt think it sounded like him?

Vic Local's picture
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Vic Local Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 3:34pm

I'm pretty sure DSDS isn't blowin. DSDS posted a decent sized essay and didn't blame China for all the ills of the world even once.

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zenagain Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 4:57pm

This is just the beginning of the violence Vic has been talking about. It's a shame parents drag their kids along to these sorts of things.

Stay tuned, more to come no doubt.

https://yournews.com/2020/08/21/1790359/video-joe-biden-supporters-steal...

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ringmaster Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 5:46pm

Epic!

Fuck, the American middle class are such a bunch of clueless bogans. (with serious religious hang ups as the mayo on top)

That was compulsive 'car crash' viewing. I (almost) feel guilty for watching it to the end.

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Liney Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 6:49pm

Just an observation,Jacinta Arden,who,from where I sit in Australia,seems to be a very capable leader,has postponed the NZ elections due to Covid (rightly so IMHO) If Trump,who from where I sit in Australia seems to be an extremely inept leader,did the same the outcry on this thread would go for pages.Seems to be silence

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factotum Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 6:59pm

Fake equivalence is a cunt of a sport.

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zenagain Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 7:04pm

Sure is.

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goofyfoot Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 8:05pm

Indo - "The two old sparring partners back at it again!"

Is DudeSweetDudeSweet Blowin?

I didnt think it sounded like him?”

If it’s not Indo I’ll drop a slab off to the Island when we’re allowed to leave the peninsula again

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blowfly Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 9:03pm

Yeh well if it is Blowin he's upgraded his vocabulary and improved his manners but his logic is stiil up the shit.

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troppo dichotomy Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 9:09pm

Big shout out to my babies mamma!and a bigger shout out to my others baby mamma??
I is a gonna call judge judy,gerry springer n dr pill!u better axe somebody..
Really?.
Idiots voting for idiots!Let the games begin.We are totally fkcu'd!

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Vic Local Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 9:15pm

Liney, Ardern delayed the election after the nationals leader requested it. Ardern is miles ahead in the polls and she has absolutely nothing to gain by delaying the election. She delayed the election to protect the health of kiwis and allow traditional and fairer campaigning.
Do you see the difference in her motives compared to Trump's?

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zenagain Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 10:39pm

Up until Corona the NZ Labour party were were set to lose comprehensively should an election have been called with a swing of between 3-7% in favour of the Nats.

At the moment if Jacinda called an election it looks like she would get back in comfortably. Maybe the Nats requesting a delay in calling an election is a strategic move and could backfire on Jacinda once covid calms down and the focus shifts back to how the NZ economy was being managed. And prior to covid, Jacindas performance has been less than spectacular.

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Vic Local Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 9:41pm

Rubbish Zenagain. Prior to Covid 19. The conservatives were polling terribly and Labour were on track to retain government. Since Covid 19 it's looking like an absolute landslide to Labour.
https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/8489-nz-national%20-voting-intention-...

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Westofthelake Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 9:46pm

@goofy, was thinkin' the same. (I'll go you halves in that slab, but you can deliver it :)

Like surfing, the nuances of style are what make everyone unique...

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sypkan Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 10:15pm

there's a holllywood super star, dnc, biden's a rapist meltdown goin on...

https://mobile.twitter.com/rosemcgowan?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5...

no inference or allegiance intended, ...just interesting stuff, ...too...

dont shoot the messenger

again

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zenagain Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 10:17pm

So you choose one poll to support your argument?

Scroll down to mid 2019 to just prior to corona and have a squiz, then get back to me.

Apologies for using Wikipedia but it was the most effective tool for grouping the researchers without introducing bias.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2020_New_Zealand...

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zenagain Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 10:41pm

Btw cowboy, before you go off half cocked, you should re-read my post. I actually agree Adern will, should an election be called now, retain her leadership. Prior to corona, maybe not so. Without wishing to take this any further, yep darling of the world but at home, rising unemployment and saddling NZ with a debt the equivalent of a second mortgage on every household wasn't exactly sitting too well with the constituents.

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Patrick Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 10:46pm

Sypo, interesting twitter thread. I like Rose, I've read her book 'Brave'.
She's the one that really brought to light Weinstein's sexual abuse. She doesn't hold back naming abusers and calling out Hollywood for protecting and maintaining sexual abuse in the industry.

Further down the thread is a screenshot showing Donald & Ivana Trump donated to Kamala Harris' 2014 re-election campaign for attorney general of California.

It's all one big rich person's club, hob nobbing with arms dealers, rapists & paedos. The system is stacked, it doesn't matter who gets in.

Rose calls it out, them all being the same and that the US people should demand better. They might have to dismantle the system to get better.

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sypkan Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 11:15pm

"She's the one that really brought to light Weinstein's sexual abuse. She doesn't hold back naming abusers and calling out Hollywood for protecting and maintaining sexual abuse in the industry."

the weinstein shit is so grubby, good on her for calling it out, (not that i knew who rose was b4 today). clinton and obamas spruiking and defending weinstein til the bitter end ain't a good look... its a dirty swampy look...

"Further down the thread is a screenshot showing Donald & Ivana Trump donated to Kamala Harris' 2014 re-election campaign for attorney general of California."

yep, one thing I like about trump is he's played both sides, and he admits it! he exposes it for the joke it is, laughs at it. his capacity is limited, but he exposed contemporary lobbying for what it is

"It's all one big rich person's club, hob nobbing with arms dealers, rapists & paedos. The system is stacked, it doesn't matter who gets in."

yep, sadly...

"Rose calls it out, them all being the same and that the US people should demand better. They might have to dismantle the system to get better."

a bit of chatter like this getting around, system beyond repair... dismantling only way...

short of ANOTHER once in a generation 2020 disaster / event (...is that possible?), I actually think trump will win. so much dirt on the dems coming out

many black people seem done with their bullshit too

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zenagain Saturday, 22 Aug 2020 at 11:22pm

It's a no brainer Syp. Trump is a knob but after the dem convention of this week was there actually any policy?

Prior to corona (and I farking hate referring to corona) old mate Trumpy had actually kicked a few goals, at least in the eyes of the prols. Sure, Biden managed get through his speech this time signalling to the boosters that all is ok on the eastern front and even Billie Eilish went into bat (like that means something) but I'm struggling to recollect even one mention of a strategic way forward. Far out man, it was almost like watching the Golden Globes.

Is this the world now? If so, stop- I wanna get off.

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sypkan Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 12:08am

not a single policy zen

in four fucking years!!! ...except defund the police... acab

thats a winner...

only saw parts of convention, looked painful

the short version...

https://mobile.twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1297010924180537344

rita, brietbart, ...sorry, release the hounds, the no platformer hounds...

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Patrick Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 12:18am

"The Democratic National Convention (like the Republican National Convention) was nothing more than a reality show for oligarchs. It was a long line of people intentionally forgetting their own records in order to pretend they stand for life, freedom, & empathy. We have proof they don't stand for any of those things."

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blowfly Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 8:30am

"......so much dirt on the dems coming out"

I must have missed that. But they must still have a long way to go to catch up to the 100,000 unnecessary deaths on bloated orange bastard's card.

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:01am

Patrick, I think if you are defending the Democrats during any point of that video you aren’t voting against Trump , you are voting against the people of the USA.

People really need to let go of this juvenile partisanship which is nothing but a sideshow to distract from the truth that none of those running for election have the best interests of the population at heart. Any politician who may have represented the people has been emphatically rejected by the political industry well prior to the election.

The circuses within the term “ bread and circuses “ doesn’t refer to elephants juggling beach balls within a big top. The political industry is the circus. Arguing for or against either party is equivalent to arguing jugglers vs tumbling clowns.

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Westofthelake Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:08am

Watched parts of that vid Patrick. Lee Camp really comes across like Alex Jones Lite. Tries to be funny, but therein lies the problem. He really ain't.

Hypocrisy is a given in politics (unfortunately).

Is it just a coincidence that RT are "part or wholly funded by Russia"?

Divide and conquer, that's the spirit...

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sypkan Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:35am

well you are blind ...boy

you couldn't even see '...the biggest external threat to our democracy' the other day. despite it being all over the media, and me dropping sledgehammer hints. as I said then, that scared me, reallly really scared me... nothing against you, just the current state of events and media bubbles, you don't see, if you don't look...

still flogging that number blindboy, I 'll give you some credit, you downgarded it from blaming trump for every single death, like the rest of the dem zealots are doing

sorry I just don't buy it, if the dems were in, it is highly hypothetical to say they would've done better, cuomo's new york is a fine example of not. plus while trump was shutting borders, pelosi was wandering chinatown, still pushing the hug a chinaman campaign, ...that panned out well for italy... its fucking laughable they would've done better, when early containment is the only thing that has worked

and, if the dems were in, we'd still be submitting to china now, waiting, hoping, and praying, ...begging, that they throw us a bone and show some mercy to deal with the outcomes of their p(l)andemic

you've really gotta break that media bubble bindboy, you gave us platitudes and pleas post trump, but you've just gotten worse

seriously, its you we should be asking, are you ok?

seriously, all smartarsery aside, you seem not well

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DudeSweetDudeSweet Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:33am

Funded by Russia ? Is that a joke ? None of the points made are contentious. What does it matter who makes them ?

If someone brings to light the fact that a Presidential candidate has previously been involved in the creation of multiple wars based on frivolous ideology and greed , why would you care who points this out ? I’d have thought that the mass slaughter of innocent foreigners, the mass incarceration of US citizens, privatisation of prison systems and massive growth of inequality as a result of policy was worthy of your attention irrespective of how you came to be aware of it. Wouldn’t you ? The narrative of Russian control is a crutch for the stupid and the vacuous . It allows them to believe that boosting for the oligarchs of the Democrats is somehow virtuous to voting for the oligarchs of the Republican Party.

Let’s be frank ....if you are attempting to portray Biden as anything more than he has proven himself to be during his five decades of political careerism , then your allegiance isn’t to the proletariat of America. His only difference to Trump is the colour of his suit . A vote for either is a vote for the status quo. Don’t let anyone tell you any different.

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blowfly Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:34am

"....that none of those running for election have the best interests of the population at heart."

This is related the fallacy of absolutism. In this case it leads to a catastrophic conclusion.

1. None of the candidates have the best interests of the population at heart.

therefore:

2. All candidates are equally bad

therefore

3. It doesn't matter who I vote for.

The problem rests in the fact that 2 does not follow from 1. It does not follow from the fact that no candidate has the BEST interests of the population at heart, that all candidates are equally bad.
In this case, one candidate has supported 1. an unfair neo-liberal orthodoxy and 2. caused 100,000 unnecessary deaths, while the other is guilty only of 1. So there is a clear and important difference.
....but thanks for demonstrating that logic has very little place in politics ........so few people actually think about it. Bias and emotion require much less energy.

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Liney Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:40am

Thanks for the reply VL,I wasn’t aware that the postponement of the NZ had Bi-Partisan agreement.have a wave on me

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Patrick Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:45am

"In this case, one candidate has supported 1. an unfair neo-liberal orthodoxy and 2. caused 100,000 unnecessary deaths, while the other is guilty only of 1. So there is a clear and important difference."

One candidate de-escalated forign military involvement and another was vice president during a ramping up of the same. This is a key point that helped Trump get elected last time.

Now even republican warhawks are backing Biden. Colin Powell spoke at the DNC.

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factotum Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 9:58am

Morning has broken...

2nd verse, same as the first.

"Fake equivalence is a cunt of a sport."

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Patrick Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 10:06am

I hear ya Westie. RT is compromised as are the corporate news channels. The information in the vid was the purpose for posting. An oligarch's conga line.

"Divide and conquer, that's the spirit..."
That appears to be the US spirit and I think the US, despite the name, has never been united.

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blowfly Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 10:26am

"One candidate de-escalated forign military involvement and another was vice president during a ramping up of the same."

The facts suggest that you are wrong. The graph shows total US defence deployments over the relevant period. In Obama's first term he radically reduced troops in Iraq while increasing them to achieve a level of stability in Afghanistan. In his second term he was then able to massively reduce troop levels in Afghanistan.
MGraph

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Patrick Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 10:32am

"President Obama did reduce the number of US soldiers fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, but he dramatically expanded the air wars and the use of special operations forces around the globe. In 2016, US special operators could be found in 70% of the world’s nations, 138 countries – a staggering jump of 130% since the days of the Bush administration."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/...

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blowfly Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 11:22am

If you want to include the Bush presidency you need to include the invasion of Iraq, a war conducted for purely domestic reasons that destabilised the entire Middle East and killed around a million people. Obama was left to clean up that mess.

If we stick to the point about Obama/Biden vs Trump. Then the recortd clearly favours Obama on all counts.

“President Donald Trump has revoked a policy set by his predecessor requiring US intelligence officials to publish the number of civilians killed in drone strikes outside of war zones.”

“During Mr Obama's eight years in office, 1,878 drone strikes were carried out, according to researchers. Since Mr Trump was elected in 2016, there have been 2,243 drone strikes. The Republican president has also made some of the operations, the ones outside of war zones, more secretive. As a result, things have different today: under Mr Trump, there are more drone strikes - and less transparency.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207

“In 2017, US Special Operations forces, including Navy SEALs and Army Green Berets, deployed to 149 countries around the world, according to figures provided to TomDispatch by US Special Operations Command. That’s about 75 percent of the nations on the planet and represents a jump from the 138 countries that saw such deployments in 2016 under the Obama administration. “
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/donald-trumps-first-year-set-a...

“America’s global military presence skyrockets under Trump: US commandos now deployed to 141 nations
And “criminal misconduct” follows

Last year, members of the Special Operations — Navy SEALs, Army Green Berets, and Marine Raiders among them — operated in 141 countries, according to figures provided to TomDispatch by U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM). In other words, they deployed to roughly 72% of the nations on this planet. While down from a 2017 high of 149 countries, this still represents a 135% rise from the late 2000s when America's commandos were reportedly operating in only 60 nations.”
https://www.salon.com/2020/04/01/americas-global-military-presence-skyro...

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Patrick Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 11:54am

Crikey! I didn't know that, thanks for the info.

It's like a competition, each trying to outdo the previous administration.

All the more reason to keep the light shining on the military industrial complex.

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zenagain Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 12:36pm

Totally and if you think Biden is at any time going to bring peace and stability to the world you are deluded.

A leopard can't change his spots or in this case a hawk.

Edit- good little summary of the DNC. Basically a slick edit of people pissing in each others pockets with nobody actually thinking to bring a towel. Trump will take a much different approach and prey on peoples fears and anxieties and you know what? It will most likely work despite what the polls are saying.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-22/joe-biden-nominating-convention-p...

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Patrick Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 12:52pm

Zen, they could learn from your example and grow petunias instead of fostering fear ;)

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zenagain Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 1:04pm

And we could put those petunias in the muzzle of their guns Pat.

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blowfly Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 1:20pm

" ..........if you think Biden is at any time going to bring peace and stability to the world you are deluded....."

zen it comes down to probabilities. There are only two candidates. Which one is more likely to bring peace and stability? Surely you wouldn't suggest Trump?

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blowfly Sunday, 23 Aug 2020 at 1:33pm

"His only difference to Trump is the colour of his suit . A vote for either is a vote for the status quo. Don’t let anyone tell you any different."

Anyone who at this stage sees no difference between Trump and Biden is either suffering from terminal bias or a limited capacity for rational thought.....or perhaps both. It's the old trick. Provoke an argument to create doubt where the evidence demonstrates there is none.