Interesting stuff

Blowin's picture
Blowin started the topic in Friday, 21 Jun 2019 at 8:01am

Have it cunts

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 9:26am

But as mentioned before, if your punkness is propagated via big tech surely the whole thing will be totally hollow.

You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 9:33am

Did Gil Scott Heron say anything about the revolution being streamed?

Tweeted perhaps..?

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 9:35am

If people are labelled woke what are labellers called? What are Joe’s followers labelled for instance?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 9:39am

Open minded, well intentioned and rational?

Wokesters mistakenly believe they’ve got a monopoly on human decency. They don’t. They just own it’s unaffiliated sanctimonious and weaponised outer rim.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 9:55am

Guy if you think that anti-wokesters are all bro types, I reckon you'd be wide of the mark.

I don't see Waleed Aly tuning in to Joe Rogan.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 10:16am

"But as mentioned before, if your punkness is propagated via big tech surely the whole thing will be totally hollow."

I don't think it will be...

it'll be propagated in dingy bars and pirate streaming networks that try to circumvent big tech's stronghold

big tech will be an amplifying event, where the perpetually outraged are all flabberghasted and shit, at the attitude and audaciousness of an unruly youth...

and around it goes...

again...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 10:19am

....but please make it a new genre...

I'm done with the constant recycling punk, hip hop, techno movements...

surely someone has a new idea? ...a new technology?

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 10:34am

It really is bemusing this woke business. I just see it as another in a long line of labels people ascribe to others to defend their personalised internet inspired view of the world. Reactionary not progressive. More showbiz and less substance. Intellectuals to bro types (Andy's reference). But to my question, if Joe's followers are throwing the woke label around what gets thrown back? Is there no response?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 10:40am

I already responded : Open minded, well intentioned and rational is the label.

Of course Woke is just a label. Labels can be useful shorthand for ascribing a group United by certain characteristics. Woke is really just a sub group of Wanker. All wokesters are wankers but not all wankers are woke.

There’s nothing progressive about the reintroduction of racial segregation. Ambition for racial blindness isn’t an “internet inspired opinion” , it’s the only viable passage towards a fair and equitable society. Harping endlessly about racial , gender and sexual orientation as points of difference is retrograde bullshit which divides rather than unites. Woke is divisive rubbish.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 10:41am

Getting back to the MTB stuff, thanks for sharing that Stu and in particular the step by step process of what is pretty much still a nascent activity in Australia. The hills around my area here in Japan are ripe for that sort of stuff and especially the ski resorts here in the summer. They're underutilised and could really do with the extra revenue stream. Believe it or not but skiing/boarding is declining here with the exception of a few well known areas, mountain biking could really add value I reckon, just needs someone with more time on their hands (i.e not me) to drive it.

And Patrick- "Advice? Sit crossed leg in the bush and stare. Allow any critters like echidnas to nuzzle at your feet. If birds land nearby don't stare back but show humility, stay aware but avert direct eye contact." If adopting the lotus position in the bush and you happen to get a green ant in your jocks, disregard above advice.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:00am

" if Joe's followers are throwing the woke label around what gets thrown back? Is there no response?"

it's already happened guysmiley... its been thrown around for 5 years now... by the corporate clinton brand of feministas...

"the bernie bros."

...well not so much lately...

as a much needed, much overdue, reckoning seems to be slowly developing

as blowin says, the wokesters don't have a monopoly on human decency

it would seem they also don't have a monopoly on the nauseating, desperately relabelling and diverting term 'progressive'...

ironically enough...

again...

(though I would never use the term, bernie and many of his 'bros.' do...)

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:04am

Yeah Zen, I'm joking but not quite with that line.

I built that wall ride over two days. It runs about twenty metres away from a straight section of track that gets moderately used. Over the two days, perhaps thirty or forty riders went down that track and not one of them saw me just over yonder putting up a 2m high by 6m wide wooden construction. Couldn't believe it.

Of course, the riders were watching the track in front of them intently, which is what you have to do lest you come a'gutser taking in the surroundings, but it made me aware that, when out riding, I need to stop more often - really stop - and check the bush out. Take in my surroundings.

There's a time to be in the moment, riding the edge of danger, focus reduced to a small section of track, and a time to let your attention expand and regard the whole cathedral.

I've written before how the hillside was once industrialised - discovering this is to discover the town's heritage.

But also, wild animals won't make themselves visible if you're noisy. I see echidna marks on the sides of the tracks all time, but rarely see one when I'm riding. When I'm working, however, I'll often sit down to rest, then slowly, almost imperceptibly, the bush starts to move. Animals come out, usually echidnas, but also wallabies, goannas, and lyrebirds too.

In fact, last summer one of the jumps further up the track had the kicker all messed up and I internally cursed kids for standing on the kicker and messing it up. Little later I was working on another jump fifty metres up the track yet again, when I caught movement out the corner of my eye. I stopped and squinted to see what it was.

Old mate lyrebird was on the kicker of the jump having a great fucking corroboree, dust and dirt flying up everywhere. I ran down to shoo him off, and he took off into the bushes. When the jump was made, wood had been used to create volume, which is a big no no as the wood rots and the jump becomes unstable.

The wood rot also attracts bugs and in turn lyrebirds keen for a bush doof and a feed.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:18am

...and while I know it is instinctive and, dare I say, 'reactionary' for the ip faithful to group, make miserable assumptions, and stereotype... ironically enough... I'd give up on that shit real quick

grouping every anti wokester as some sort of 'mysoginist', 'right wing', and 'dangerous' joe rogan bro is all kinds of dumb... I literally have never watched more than 15 minutes of the man,

which may mean I have no idea... but the many snippets I've seen and been referred to, have shown it's 'the narrative' that has no idea....

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:13am

MTB : Rode Compartment 10 in Margaret River just before Covid - Pugsley and Fuild were lots of fun

and

I was on a rental hardtail from the Hairy Marron so very slow

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:13am

Really enjoyable post, Stu.

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:14am

Thanks Blowin and Sypkan

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:20am

Awesome reading Stu, love it.

Unrelated but similar- my dog passed on to that great big kennel in the sky a few weeks ago and I've been a little moribund recently, not just because I'm sad and miss him but also because my routine has been disrupted. I love starting my day early, rain, hail, shine, and walking a few k's with mutly. People say why don't you go for a run every morning but I reckon the world goes by too quickly when running. I like seeing the regular early risers, saying g'day to people walking to work or others walking their dogs. I like watching the seasons change and how the leaves and colours come and go. I even miss my nemesis, this fuckwit rude bastard about my age with a really sweet, black Shiba inu. He totally writes me off and we both have a quiet disdain for each other. It's childish but I wonder if he wonders where I've been?

Anyway, rambling, I really like your outlook. I hope it manifests itself in your boys and their kids when you're gone.

I'm on the lookout for another dog now. Something to keep our old, deaf mini-Schnauzer company and the cats too. But more importantly, a mate to join me on my morning stroll.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:34am

Haha - I’ve got a local walking nemesis too. This older lady who has these two ultra friendly, ultra cute sausage dogs. She won’t let me pat them, even when I specifically ask permission because they’re trying to snuggle their little noses into my feet. She actually claims they are too viscous and will bite. She’s like the Cruella Deville of daschunds.

One day I’ll have my way and pat those doggies so hard they’ll swoon. That didn’t come out the way I intended.

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:37am

Thanks Stu, great detail, cheers. Sounds like you're having a lot of fun up there, looks great. All the best with your healing.
Zen, what if the green ant excites me?

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:41am

See a Psychiatrist Patrick asap would be my advice.

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:46am

GS, people sound silly making judgments about a person when they've never read their work or listened to their podcasts. That's putting on the blinkers and earmuffs. You might like his chats with Darryl Davis, an Afro American guy who befriends KKK members who then leave the organisation.
Alex Honnold, Bernie Sanders, Edward Snowden, Dave Chappelle, Tulsi Gabbard, etc. All the episodes are on Spotify now though, you can't watch the full casts on youtube any more. 2-3 hour chats really allows for topics to be fleshed out.

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:47am

"Sick 'em Rex"

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:48am

Grab an echidna for me please Stu

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 11:52am

Imagine if George Carlin was still alive

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 1:16pm

Guy I still feel like you're trying to frame this as something frivolous.
And you might think it's reactionary but reactionary is, by definition, opposing social or political progress or reform.
The (very solid) argument here is that woke cancel culture is not progressive, it is actually illiberal, anti-democratic and regressive.

Check out the names on the Harpers letter, including people of all skin colour and culture, as well as some big-name intellectuals.

Trial by social media mob and building compliance through intimidation is a terrible way forward.

https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 1:56pm

You can be a survivor of the sex industry (groomed for it and prostituted by your own father), work for women's freedoms and still be fired from a women's shelter for a facebook post. Fired by the 'human resources director'...a man. One who wouldn't even show her the so called offensive posts.

https://4w.pub/canadian-survivor-of-prostitution-fired-from-womens-shelt...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 3:26pm

"...And you might think it's reactionary but reactionary is, by definition, opposing social or political progress or reform.
The (very solid) argument here is that woke cancel culture is not progressive, it is actually illiberal, anti-democratic and regressive...."

exactly! ...not to mention...

"...There’s nothing progressive about the reintroduction of racial segregation. Ambition for racial blindness isn’t an “internet inspired opinion” , it’s the only viable passage towards a fair and equitable society. Harping endlessly about racial , gender and sexual orientation as points of difference is retrograde bullshit which divides rather than unites. Woke is divisive rubbish..."

retrograde bullshit indeed, ...mlk himself would be disgraced with recent 'developments'...

I'm reluctant to ask... but...

"...All the episodes are on Spotify now though, you can't watch the full casts on youtube any more..."

please don't tell me this because of the reason I'm thinking it is...

Patrick's picture
Patrick's picture
Patrick Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 4:14pm

sypkan wrote:
please don't tell me this because of the reason I'm thinking it is...

Spotify just negotiated an exclusive deal.
I think snippets might be on youtube but whole episodes are spotify only.
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 4:31pm

What I'm judging and what I see as flippant is the use of these labels not necessarily the arguments behind them which I blissfully choose to ignore as covid and Melbourne's lockdown taught me to spend my time on the positive and to ignore all the division. I could also list many things I disagree with here but what's the point? I guess my discomfort with labels comes from our recent history where they have been cynically used by politicians (mostly from the right) and their media cheer squad to create advantage and division.

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 4:40pm

Fair point Guy, there's quite a bit happening with the woke thing, throwing it all under a simplistic label isn't ideal.

Again, it's clear that the Right laid the groundwork for this general method of silencing dissent, from being pilloried for having reservations about how we commemorate ANZAC Day and Australia Day, onto Captain Cook, etc etc.

It's the Bolt/Hadley/Jones/Australian/LNP bread and butter.

And now certain elements of the Left have adopted it, which elevates my discomfort just that little bit more.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 5:06pm

Can I dive into these muddy waters?

I like the language used in the Harper's letter which says that cancel culture arises from "overdue demands for police reform, along with wider calls for greater equality and inclusion across our society".

In other words, it comes from a very, very good place. It seeks to create a better world.

It's slightly worrying when people then seek to toss the whole movement aside without first understanding that point. I don't agree with cancel culture but the emphatic language employed against it hints that those who would dispose of it dont care about the points it addresses.

Same goes Identity Politics. Sure, criticise it, but first understand the very good things that have arisen from it so it doesn't get thrown out wholesale but evolves into something else that does good.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 5:19pm

Nah , that’s been pretty comprehensively addressed with repeated statements that it’s not about the human decency but the way it’s being used maliciously to quell even the slightest dissent for the ludicrous overreaches of the movement. And as much as you think overreach is to be expected, this doesn’t mean the most extravagant miscalls should be indulged to the point where people lose their jobs and have their lives destroyed for voicing opposition.

The point I’ve made repeatedly is that wokesters don’t have a lock on morality, right and wrong or concern for humanity. They just use sanctimony to beat people over the head. The fundamental issue and the defining feature of Woke is that it conflates opposition to their ridiculous overreach with opposition to the initial problem in society. For example a woke person would claim you’re a racist because you think that it’s excessive and outrageous that someone should get fired from their job because they hosted a Mexican themed party if they weren’t actually Mexican .

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 5:32pm

You appear to have missed the very first point.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 5:50pm

You said : “I don't agree with cancel culture but the emphatic language employed against it hints that those who would dispose of it dont care about the points it addresses.”

This is the problem. The whole Schtick of woke is the old “ you’re either with us or against us”. It seems as though you’re encouraging and validating their bullshit by saying that you suspect those who despise Woke are secretly racist/ sexist / whatever.

Most times cancel culture doesn’t address a problem. It’s just sanctimonious posturing and vying for virtuous purity through farcical acts of judgement.

Remember the initial Taibbi article I posted? The cancelled Apple employee hadn’t actually transgressed. He hadn’t acted in a sexist manner. It doesn’t mean I’m sexist because I call bullshit on the Woke Cancel Culture in the article.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 5:57pm

No, jesus fuck...the point being that, before 'woke' was a thing, before people knew what cancel culture was, there existed a need to address things such as police brutality and structural inequality.

I mean, it's written there in black and white in the letter, or do you not agree with that part of the letter? Just the outcome, not the motivation.

If you believe in the reasons, as I do, as do all the people who signed it, then how are we to address those problems? Around ten or so years ago, some right-minded people, some duly oppressed, others who just cared, began to tackle the issue using Web 2.0, at first a fringe technique but which proved wildly successful through the amplification possibilies of social media. Too succesful. So it was adopted by more and targetted more and was more and more distorted from original aims again thanks to the context-draining capability of social media.

And now it's all just a dirty great bunch of bollocks, driven by utter bollocky wankers, but make no mistake, it arose from a genuine need.

So I ask you: If "wokesters don’t have a lock on morality" then what method can people use to address social injustices?

C'mon then..?

Occupy didn't work.

Woke is bollocks.

So what works?

Or should the oppressed just do nothing and sit back and take it.

Some people would like that...

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 6:07pm

Stu, you like some of the language of the Harper's letter but not the more "emphatic language employed"?

Seems like everytime we object to the "stifling atmosphere" and the "restriction of debate" we have to preface these objections with a loud "I'm in favour of police reform and greater equality but..."

Kinda reminiscent of "I'm not a racist but..." in that very soon it's going to be shorthand for "I'm not in favour or police reform or equality".

Tricky.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 6:35pm

well that's a relief patrick!

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 6:51pm

its not just cancel culture though, its the whole ideology, that seems to have decided that because decades of affirmative action like policies haven't gotten the desired result, it must be because of 'structural racism' and 'white supremecy' ...whilst avoiding looking at any other possible explanations at all

it's all kinds of dumb, totally void of context and reflection, and terribly terribly racist....

to the point of blaming asian kids as being part of the 'white supremecy' project for being good at school

deeming maths, science, and hard work as tools of white supremecy

and embracing the bigotry of low expectations as an answer to the problem

it's all so fucking racist it's outrageous

(not to mention intellectually very lazy, ...excuse my 'racism'...)

all kinds of dumb...

"...In my position as a professor of mathematics at Princeton, I have witnessed the decline of universities and cultural institutions as they have embraced political ideology at the expense of rigorous scholarship. Until recently — this past summer, really — I had naively thought that the STEM disciplines would be spared from this ideological takeover.

I was wrong. Attempts to “deconstruct” mathematics, deny its objectivity, accuse it of racial bias, and infuse it with political ideology have become more and more common — perhaps, even, at your child’s elementary school....

...The woke ideology, on the other hand, treats both science and mathematics as social constructs and condemns the way they are practiced, in research and teaching, as manifestations of white supremacy, euro-centrism, and post-colonialism.

Take for example the recent educational program called “a pathway to equitable math instruction.” The program is backed financially by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; it counts among its partners the Lawrence Hall of Science at UC Berkeley, the California Math project, the Association of California School Administrators, and the Los Angeles County Office of Education, among others; and it was recently sent to Oregon teachers by the state’s Department of Education.

The program argues that “white supremacy culture shows up in the classroom when the focus is on getting the ‘right’ answer” or when students are required to show their work, while stipulating that the very “concept of mathematics being purely objective is unequivocally false”. The main goal of the program is “to dismantle racism in mathematics instruction” with the expressly political aim of engaging “the sociopolitical turn in all aspects of education, including mathematics.”

In the past, I would have said that such statements should be ignored as too radical and absurd to merit refutation. But recent trends across the country suggest that we no longer have that luxury.

So let me state the following for the record: Nothing in the history and current practice of mathematics justifies the notion that it is in any way different or dependent on the particular race or ethnic group engaged in it.

For historical reasons, we often discuss contributions to the field of mathematics from the Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks, Chinese, Indians and Arabs and refer to them as distinct entities. They have all contributed through a unique cultural dialogue to the creation of a truly magnificent edifice accessible today to every man and woman on the planet. Though we pay tribute to great historical figures who inform the practice of mathematics, the subject can be taught — and often is — with no reference to the individuals who have contributed to it. In that sense it is uniquely universal...

...The idea that focusing on getting the “right answer” is now considered among some self-described progressives a form of bias or racism is offensive and extraordinarily dangerous. The entire study of mathematics is based on clearly formulated definitions and statements of fact. If this were not so, bridges would collapse, planes would fall from the sky, and bank transactions would be impossible.

https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/there-is-no-such-thing-as-white-math

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/05/10/racial-equity-math-tes...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 7:00pm

the blame game comes from an aversion to self reflection, and a reluctance to deal in reality, or so it would seem...

"...In July the government of Prime Minister Boris Johnson responded by impaneling the Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities. “We decided to step away from the heat and all that vitriol,” says its chairman, Tony Sewell, “and just take a cold look at the data on racism.” In doing so, “we examined ideas that weren’t to be questioned,” namely “the race industry’s articles of faith.” In its March 31 report, the commission concluded that while Britain isn’t yet “a post-racial society,” neither is it any longer a place where “the system” is “deliberately rigged against ethnic minorities.”

"...He characterizes the abuse as “a sort of antiracism that borders on racism.” He also detects some desperation, “not only in black lobby groups but on the white left”: “they’re frightened of the report.” Since few ordinary citizens will read its 258 pages, its opponents have busied themselves spreading “distortions” in a bid to capture public opinion. He singles out the leftist Guardian newspaper, which published a sweeping condemnation by David Olusoga"

"...Mr. Sewell says his team was careful to take a “fact-based approach” to their examination of Britain’s racial questions. In an obvious reference to activists and lobbies of the left, the report bemoans the “reluctance” in Britain to acknowledge that the country has “become open and fairer,” and singles out for attention “an increasingly strident form of anti-racism thinking that seeks to explain all minority disadvantage through the prism of White discrimination.”

"..The report acknowledges disparities between races in Britain. But whites aren’t uniformly at an advantage, and Mr. Sewell and his commissioners part company with the race lobby, which blames racism for all differences between ethnic groups in education, health, prosperity and crime. Instead, the report argues that many of these disparities arise from differences in economic class, geography, family patterns and culture.

"...Black Caribbean children perform worse in British schools than those of any other group. “For years,” Mr. Sewell says, “it has been said that this is explained in terms of teachers’ racism.” Yet black African students—“same age, same demographic, same classroom”—had academic achievement rates higher than those of whites. In fact, he says, all ethnic groups other than Caribbean blacks perform better than white British students, with the exception of Pakistanis, who are on par with whites.

Mr. Sewell says that you can’t understand ethnic differences in outcome—particularly in education and crime—without focusing on what he calls “family strain,” the effect of single-parent families. “This is the first time we’ve ever had a race report,” he says, “that looks at the family and links disparities to the family.” Race activists, he explains, “just take all questions about single-parent families off the table.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-report-that-shook-britains-race-lobby-1...

....yeh, it's a conservative government appointee... and he's a bit of an 'uncle tom'...

but this paragraph would seem to capture a large part of the problem...

"Mr. Sewell says his team was careful to take a “fact-based approach” to their examination of Britain’s racial questions. In an obvious reference to activists and lobbies of the left, the report bemoans the “reluctance” in Britain to acknowledge that the country has “become open and fairer,” and singles out for attention “an increasingly strident form of anti-racism thinking that seeks to explain all minority disadvantage through the prism of White discrimination.”

"a facts based approach" ...now there's a novel idea...

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 7:13pm

re. police butality...

'a facts based approach', that looked at the real numbers involved. within groups, and the real increase both towards white and brown people, and how drugs such as ice has changed police practices, would be a good starting point

but that's probably way too much to ask...

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 7:19pm

Not really Andy, just avoid the emphatic language that tears down the whole articfice and would have us bouncing from one polarity to the other, and be prepared to advance your POV if so required.

You're good with words, don't mind a little dust up to state your case, should be fun.

Look, the fact is, we're at a juncture, and the left is currently fighting over a case of overreach initially brought on by fellow travellers, so that side of politics can either split further - not a bad feat seeing they're almost at the point of atomisation - or denounce all this woke/cancel culture bullshit while acknowledging it as a failed assault against a common enemy.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 7:44pm

fwiw, i don't think this is unreasonable...

"The main goal of the program is “to dismantle racism in mathematics instruction”

however, to paint mathematics, science, the right answer, and hard work as inherently racist, and the tools of white supremecy is all kinds of messed up

and as I said, embracing the bigotry of low expectations

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 20 May 2021 at 9:42pm

So much that could be said about your post Sypkan, but this but stood out.

sypkan wrote:

"..The report acknowledges disparities between races in Britain. But whites aren’t uniformly at an advantage, and Mr. Sewell and his commissioners part company with the race lobby, which blames racism for all differences between ethnic groups in education, health, prosperity and crime. Instead, the report argues that many of these disparities arise from differences in economic class, geography, family patterns and culture.

"...Black Caribbean children perform worse in British schools than those of any other group. “For years,” Mr. Sewell says, “it has been said that this is explained in terms of teachers’ racism.” Yet black African students—“same age, same demographic, same classroom”—had academic achievement rates higher than those of whites. In fact, he says, all ethnic groups other than Caribbean blacks perform better than white British students, with the exception of Pakistanis, who are on par with whites.

Mr. Sewell says that you can’t understand ethnic differences in outcome—particularly in education and crime—without focusing on what he calls “family strain,” the effect of single-parent families. “This is the first time we’ve ever had a race report,” he says, “that looks at the family and links disparities to the family.” Race activists, he explains, “just take all questions about single-parent families off the table.”

.

Ive been listening to a lot of podcast from a UK channel that has all these interesting guest on (many of colour) talking about lots of social issues including wokeness and this comes up quite a few times
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7oPkqeHTwuOZ5CZ-R9f-6w

Actually in most developed countries like USA & UK (i expect could even be the same in Australia but dont think we have the breakdown of ethic groups)

Indians & Asian groups are the most academically successful, same deal with income and also the least incarcerated and yes most likely group to NOT be fatherless.

They expect some of these factors are due to culture and high family expectations, plus the actions of child tend to be reflected on the family, and if child goes down a road of crime etc it can bring great shame on a family.

People dont like to talk about this fatherless aspect as it can be seen as demonising to single mothers which it shouldn't be as it takes two to tango and single mothers have a very hard job and generally do the best they can.

But the reality is that the groups whom have a mother and father hence role models & stability plus more often dual income or more time for child and other aspects (less chance of family strain) are much more likely to succeed and avoid crime, while it's the complete opposite for groups with high rates of fatherlessness. (lack of role models, lack of stability, much lower income often welfare dependent or need to work so hard at expense of time with child= more family strain, plus other aspects like higher risk of sexual abuse from mothers boyfriend)

(African American have crazy high fatherless rates about 70% in 2011 it was 83% while Asians in USA is 15% Whites is 30%)

Until people start acknowledging these type of important factors and trying to some how change these patterns nothing will change.

Then you have movements like BLM calling to dismantle the nuclear family and defund police.

The complete opposite of what these community's obviously need.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Friday, 21 May 2021 at 12:17am

well i think there is little chance of a returning to the nuclear family, ...but arguing for a dismantling of it probably isn't the smartest move, hence some marketing clever pants removing that particular goal from their website...

definitely cannot blame the mothers, seen a bit of father calling out done from within these groups, but that don't seem to go down well either...

really can only do what sewell suggests, which is providing required supports from within the system that addresses the situation, but not identifying the problem due to some wokester sensibilities doesn't make that so easy...

like many social issues, certain folk have established so many taboos we are just not dealing with the reality. talking around and over issues, fudging figures, and ignoring the bleeding obvious just to placate a certain world view

I almost had a reasonable discussion with an old fave on here once when they posted a jonathon freedland article that suggested 'the left' just have too many wedge issues, just too many no go zones not open for discussion, from the guardian no less... almost had...

but it's true. the left has built up such a catalogue of no go issues it seems they cannot address anything anymore, they find themselves constantly backed into an infinite number of corners of a self imposed maze of contradictions. practical solutions are off the table as they flutter around the fairy garden of false attributions

any cursory glance of statistics exposes a non reality held aloft by pc-ness cancel culture

take sewell's example...

"Black Caribbean children perform worse in British schools than those of any other group. “For years,” Mr. Sewell says, “it has been said that this is explained in terms of teachers’ racism.” Yet black African students—“same age, same demographic, same classroom”—had academic achievement rates higher than those of whites. In fact, he says, all ethnic groups other than Caribbean blacks perform better than white British students, with the exception of Pakistanis, who are on par with whites."

are teachers discriminating sgainst carribean black people over african black people?

does 'white supremecy' not affect african black people?

are pakistani children in on the 'white supremecy' discrimination?

all questions not to be answered, questions not to be asked...

sorry, but none of that adds up if one is to believe the narrative

maybe it's the racism of mathematics...

Wyre's picture
Wyre's picture
Wyre Friday, 21 May 2021 at 9:34am

indo-dreaming wrote:
garyg1412 wrote: "Im sure those that go to university on average end up earning more than those that don't"

Indo I can't back this up with facts but at a Master Builders Association seminar I went to some years back there was mention of a study the MBA did whereby they compared a law degree to an apprentice carpenter who went on to be a successful builder. The lawyer was financially streaks ahead until around age 40 but then the builder pulled ahead and the lawyer never caught up.

Yes you see the lawyers driving around in their flashy Porsche Cayennes but the successful builder is the bloke driving his tricked up V6 Amarok around with a $150k Stabicraft hitched on the back.

100% many tradies earn as much or more than others with university degrees.

Plus they also have the advantage of often building their own home or having other tradies mates that do aspects of their builds for mates rates, so they often also have lower mortgages and homes/mortgages are generally out most expensive purchases we make in life.

But let's not spin some BS that the majority of people that go to university are hard done by society and low income earners, hence somehow are fighting back against society with wokeness, its just not true most people that get to university end up with decent paying jobs, thats the whole point people go to university and don't just try to get a job after year 12.

Interesting topic all, I’m actually teaching (music/production) at Uni, been a very turbulent couple of years!
Uni- it’s not just about that employment goal. Or, it is but that’s not all of it. I think young adults crave the community and critical thinking that uni seems to offer. The covid enforced online learning was a stark reminder of how isolation creates serious mental health/motivational issues, and our department argued hard for getting students back into the classroom. They are genuinely loving it, I think it’s heartening to see friendships forged and a new sense of self governance etc.

That said, completely agree that trades are a fantastic option for employment and money. If I had my time again I would’ve gone into something other than the School of Rock n Roll, which taught me many things but left me with very little. Wow, the memories though.

I reckon the best trade would have to be a locksmith! Least physically demanding, extremely lucrative and deceptively difficult (4 years at Tafe)...

JustPassingBy's picture
JustPassingBy's picture
JustPassingBy Friday, 21 May 2021 at 9:37am

stunet wrote:

...and now for something completely different. Not political, cultural, or economic, but still interesting....to me

A day before I busted my clavicle and ribs I finished a section of track I've called the 308s. A berm run with three turns that links two existing bits of track.

First berm (below), pretty small but riders won't be going too fast there as it's at the end of a flat section of track, but then it leans downhill and twenty metres away are the next two berms.

Above are the next two berms when viewed looking up the hill. Camera lessens the steepness, and also the size, both are about four feet high and the one in the foreground goes to vertical. They're also sharper than what these pics would leave you to believe - the last berm turns approx 135 degrees.

I stacked it not long after the berm in the foreground, in part cos the track was dry and dusty, yet with the rain we've had recently the dirt is perfect for riding. When I was up there yesterday two riders flew by, railing the berms at max speed. No slip, no drift. Hero dirt, as it's called.

Reason I was up there was to put the finishing touch on the 308s - a faux chromoly paint job on the engine block that gives the section its name.

Carry on...


Thank god for someone who appreciates mountain biking, I'm shunned and ridiculed out here in the west (Perth) by those unrepentant tards who proliferate on Realsurf.
JustPassingBy's picture
JustPassingBy's picture
JustPassingBy Friday, 21 May 2021 at 9:52am

That doesn't include Wyre of course.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Friday, 21 May 2021 at 10:01am

I know 'Wyre' well - talented muso bum that he is.

I know Steve too and I figure with him it's a case of 'the lady doth protest too much' and he's actually a cyclist in denial.

JustPassingBy's picture
JustPassingBy's picture
JustPassingBy Friday, 21 May 2021 at 10:11am

Yeah, anyone who surfs would love it. But a decent bike and some good tracks make all the difference. I only took it up after I moved to Perth and was appalled by how bad the surf is here (Cronulla was my local). Now I ride about five days a week and surf one day (not for the want of trying though).

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 Friday, 21 May 2021 at 10:12am

hahaha, done my time MTB in Canada Stu, and mucking around here.

like snowboarding. chased the powder for a few years.

In the end, I went back to surfing and fishing and left those other pursuits behind.

too much gear and mucking around for snowboarding and I hate ski resorts.

MTB is fun but fcuk getting injured and being out for months.

briefly got back into skateboarding with my son, one slam at Coffs skate park disabused me of that notion.

The one thing great about getting older is the getting of (supposed) wisdom.
For everything there is a season etc etc.