Submitted by GuySmiley on Fri, 11/02/2018 - 14:04
Dedicated to good news ....
"If we don't travel internationally for business, study, holidays, and cultural exchange, we will end up travelling for war."
It's a real stretch to say that a rise in nationalism will result in a decrease in the above.
The rise in nationalism we're looking at revolves around a rejection of globalisation, not a rejection of international travel, multiculturalism or anything like that.
Having met all the criteria you outlined above, do you think the business returning to Australian ownership is a good outcome?
I simply don't know. I would need to know the following to make a judgement on that question.
1. Amount of cattle on the property.
2. Condition of the property.
3. Value of water rights (if any)
4. Corporate structure of the buyer and seller.
5. Where the companies are domiciled
6. Any tax concessions available for the purchaser and seller.
7. Any forward contracts the property has for agricultural products
8. Loan terms and conditions (if any)
9. Where the bank is domiciled (if any)
10. Any financial backers of the business, where they are domiciled and their tax arrangements.
11. Potential for other revenue streams
etc etc etc. This could be a good deal for the country or a shit one. Just because an Australian bloke bought the property off a Chinese bloke doesn't make it a good deal.
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
"The rise in nationalism we're looking at revolves around a rejection of globalisation, not a rejection of international travel, multiculturalism or anything like that."
Really? Trump, Deturte, Bolsonaro, and to a lesser extent Bojo are very much circling the wagons and rejecting most forms of globalism, much of it is being done with a deeply racist odour. None of those countries are going well and all have a very bleak future.
Stu, good post. You can see it too.
History is cyclical. The emotions we are facing, the situation in relation to trade flows opening/lessening, the flows of people, it's all happened before. It's now the time to swing toward nationalism. This does not have to be a bad thing, for any of you lefties anxious that the rest of us will don jack boots and goose steps. Nationalism in Australia doesn't work that way. Look at the nation of the ALP leadership of Curtin and Chifley, which became the Australia of Menzies. By 1970 it had equal highest standard of living in the world, shared with Canada. Big resource based economies, with supported value adding in manufacturing. Agriculture supported. Anyone thinking Mussolini is barking up the wrong tree here. It was nationalist under both parties, and backed itself and protected itself. Then for some reason this policy was all thrown under the bus.
There is one thing to caution, and it relates to Australian ownership. We've never really owned the Commonwealth locally. Before Chinese money it was Japan in the 80's, before that it was the UK from Federation. Domestic ownership has always been really difficult, as access to capital has been a constant problem, always having to source it from overseas in the absence of a local pool of capital. We have recognised this in the past. If we go back to 1911 and the foundation of the Commonwealth Bank (not what CBA is today) - I believe part of the reason for creating it was to have a domestic pool of capital. But somehow it hasn't taken off. If we want to own Australia, we have to accumulate the funds (hey, hello there pension funds...)
A good read is the NSW crisis of 1932, when the loans (offshore capital) got called in and Jack Lang said "No."
And a book:
Following, we have long been a country of being ripped off. By 1790 the NSW Corps had become the 'Rum Corps' and was distilling, importing and ripping off the population for great margins on their monopoly. Today, many of life's essentials are priced with an 'Australia tax' as you no doubt know. Does it have to be this way?
Next, we seem to sell off the furniture to fund today's lifestyle to the latest up and coming power at bubble prices, then astutely buy it back when it all crashes and the up and coming power isn't, and leaves, licking its financial wounds. We're on the cusp of this stage, now. Hope you all had great barbies over the last 20 years and enjoyed the flatscreens and trips overseas. In financial markets, this is a "short sale" and the re-buying is "covering". I mean, it's not how I'd run my household, but I'm just a little voice in a big nation...
And lastly, an observation from an immigrant: Australians don't seem to back themselves. A Commodore is not a great car, but a 'bogan' mobile, a 'dinosaur'. Forget the fact that for the money, it was one of the world's great bargains, an affordable RWD car with top level performance, and a wagon and ute to boot, developed on a shoestring into something quite good. But Australians turned their backs on it, and now it's gone. Picture this, multiply by millions. I'll never understand why Aussies don't back themselves more. Seriously, some of the stuff we create, some of the intellectual depth - ah, it's bizarre. Backing the country needs to be policy again - you contact the department and say "I want to manufacture something here," and what you get is advice to do it in Thailand. Bizarre, again. If you want to have a first world nation, you need to value-add.
So how about a nationalism that sees Australia back itself, use its resources for it's own best benefit, develop its creativity; protect and nurture its people and itself? A wealthy, stable country will also attract capital, if it is needed. Given much of the world is about to get really chaotic, it would be nice to build a great shelter from the storm.
Do you think Australia can move away from neoliberal globalisation, which I see mainly as an economic thing though with social implications e.g. mass immigration, and still maintain a muticultural outlook?
Excellent post VJ and i dare say you're not alone in your thinking.
VJ, that's an interesting analysis but very much seen through the lens of an Aussie.
I see four big geo-political trends.
1. A rapid economic and social collapse in the USA. This is really dangerous.
2. The rise and fall of strong-men leaders. If the likes of Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, Bolsonaro, Trump etc don't accept election results, these countries could very well fall into civil wars or total dictatorships.
3. The continued sidelining of middle democratic powers such as Canada, NZ, and much of Europe.
4. The continued rise of China as a superpower. Whether you blokes like it or not, China is the only game in town for so many nations in Africa, Central Asia, and SE Asia, and increasingly Eastern Europe. The West has created the void, China has stepped into it.
My big fear is Australia chucking our lot in with the USA, pissing off China, and becoming a global irrelevance with a third rate economy
My big hope is Australia walks the tightrope between China and the USA while forming a large coalition of democracies in Europe, Canada, SE Asia, India etc. If the orange lunatic gets out of the Oval Office the USA could repair the damage and join a coalition of democracies to re-establish a global law based order. The world is going to need a serious counterbalance to China. We need to remake globalism after this crisis. Retreating back into our borders is the worst thing Australia could do.
I’m going to try get this thread back aligned to its original intent. You blokes need to give your dialogue a rest. It is literally taking over most forums on the site.
Was able to get a group of blokes together today for a social round of golf, 9 in all - an irregular but valuable social club. Everyone grateful for the chance and It allowed for the varied experiences of the last 6 weeks to be shared. Like nothing had changed but also like so much had. No hugs or handshakes. No post round beers and laughs, playing in pairs only and even standing around after felt unnatural. Was good though and wasn’t taken for granted by anyone. An increased appreciation for each other. A couple impacted in life changing ways.
Weather was stunning and hit them well.
The daily good news is... this thread is back on track! Good stuff Roystein.
In more good news, I completed* my first ever paving job, a little home job for an outdoor shower area. Just in time for winter :)
Not alone VJ
good call Roystein, post deleted
I'm stinging for a round of golf, been ages for me.
I went for a surf check today, flat and onshore but some crusty old locals were foraging for a little succulent that grows just above the high tide line- apparently good as tempura.
Also bought an old bench and sanded it back a bit. Half a dozen coats of stain and i've got a killer bench just outside to enjoy a beer in front of my herb garden.
Tomorrow, my wife and I are taking the dog hiking into th hills behind my house. There's a cool lookout and a couple of giant boulders about the size of shipping container, perfectly round that look like they've been split in half with a katana,
I'll see if i can find a pic.
pic doesn't do it justice- i'll try and get a better one tomorrow.
"The smart countries would be offshoring in India. A politically stable country, democratic with a similar system of law not to mention a huge pool of labor. English is spoken as well facilitating trade. Millions ready to be lifted out of poverty and geographically close to established and emerging markets.
I'd be moving my manufacturing there."
I agree, anyone know why India isn't such a big manufacturing source?
But we still need to spread the eggs around lots of other countries have low wages and overheads in SE Asia.
Please Stunet give me an ignore button for Talking Turkey, Shatners Basoon, Dale Cooper, Factotum, Pupkin, and any new fake profile he decides to create.
Looks like the Good News thread's morphed into interesting stuff...
Zen, re India, keep an eye on the rise of Modi's Hindu nationalism (which seems from afar to have some supremacist elements; seeing a rise in violence against Muslims and Christians there plus unjust imprisonments). Not meaning to finger point, just that they might not be as stable as we think.
Edit: sorry, missed the posts above trying to get the forum back on track...
Daily good news for me (well, a couple of days ago anyway), is that I was able to visit my parents for the first time in over a month. It's the little things, right.
He who hesitates is lost
I'm with George.
Good news is seeing the ocean off the East coast so visibly alive as it is today. Super pods of hundreds of dolphins trailing across kilometres of coast. Schools of baitfish of all sizes . Sharks , seabirds.
It was all happening.
Zen, more of those rocks around? Looks like a beautiful walk.
Yep, we're just about to go on our hike now. I'll try and snap a couple of better shots.
Is a lovely walk. Nice in the snow too.
walk cancelled- raining.
Bad news then ;p
No new cases of covid in NZ today.
That is good news.
Yep that looks beautiful Zen.
Good news? I spent 7 hours splitting wood yesterday, got three trailer loads.
A bit sore in the shoulders today but I've got firewood from now until the apocalypse.
At my house the apocalypse would be coming in a couple of months.
Jealous of your red gum. Nice stacking.
Hand split or machine?
Worthy stack of fire wood.
I understand about the sore shoulders bit, painting a ceiling at the moment. Amazing how a 200 gm brush can feel about a kilo after a solid session overhead.
There’s a art to splitting wood. Most people go straight for the middle of the log whereas it’s best to go around the edges first before attacking the middle. Works a treat and no you don’t end up splitting it too small after all many of those chunky bits will end up being split down further anyway. Oh use the heaviest log splitter you can find and not one of those dinky fibreglass handled ones sold at Bunnings. Like a good glassed to last gun a good log splitter will see you out. Mine is a 25 year old Cyclone Hytest, good as new, splitter one side, sledge hammer the other.
Recently fitted a new hardwood handle to my log splitter. Got it from Krugers in Sydney, an Australian company operating since 1911.
I've got a pile of firewood that, until a couple of minutes ago, I was pretty proud of.
It's well-split, well-stacked, but it's just, well, small compared to Andy's.
I’m jealous of that Andy. I have to buy my supply this year, first time in 4 years.
We had a freak storm in April back then, trees were coming down everywhere. I drove the freeway north out of Sydney in the middle of it all, and was literally driving 80 Ks in the middle lane while trees either lay on the road, or came down in front of my eyes. I lost 5 trees in my suburban back yard alone, during this one storm. Big bastards crashing onto neighbours roofs and everything. I ended up choosing the room to sleep in based on its safety from falling trees
Anyway, no one got hurt, and an arborist left me the 3 good hardwood trees in a pile of easy to manage pieces
Not easy at all, it was my first fireplace and me and even the fiskars axe were no match for these slabs. Luckily a friend lent me his splitter for the week, and I spent the whole week at it.
Good times. I love the atmosphere of a fireplace, a few drinks, and music.
Beats TV every day of the week.
Well, they were good times.
Got no wood now, and it’s getting cold...
Yes I hear you Roystein and others, that one should have been in the politico thread.
OK some good news, or, how to make lemonade out of lemons.
Surf today was my son and I, with 3ft sets, alone on a bit of beach/reef not really bothered with. The weekend belonged to the crowds. I took out a remarkable board and midway through the session paddling back out it felt funny; it had lost it's fin. I wasn't overly bothered, mentioned it to my young one, showed him to his surprise. The board has done this before, so I kept surfing.
The next wave on it I stayed on my belly and bodyboarded a right. My son was paddling back out, looking intently. "Dad, board swap." he said as soon as I got back out.
What happened then was a lesson on how to ride finless. Keep in mind he's never done this before, but is a very good snowboarder. Takeoffs into standing into turns, trim, edges were in well, little cut backs - I could see his mind ticking over "how do I do this... and this... and this..." He was getting a good deal of speed and honestly looked like he had a fin in for most of the riding. Hand placed into wave face to mimic a rudder. There were big smiles and the odd look of surprise as the board threw up a challenge.
So I came out of the water where I should have been bummed out on losing a fin, instead really happy at the learning, growth and teaching I'd seen.
Sounds fun, VJ.
I think the most essential requirement for finless surfing is good knees.
Age and cunning is no match for youth and reaction time and flexibility
Well picked up Inzider, I've got red gum on the left, flooded gum over the back out of sight and I'm not sure what that stuff in front is.
All hand split, I'm too tight and too egotistical to hire a hydraulic splitter :)
And speaking of neat stacking, if you've ever been up in the European alps they take it to another level - in the Arlberg, a man's worth is judged by his wood pile and that's barely an exaggeration.
Exactly Shoredump, who needs a tv when you've got a fire?
Question. who needs a tv when you've got a fire?
Answer. All those people who smashed their TVs at 2pm the other day, filmed it, and then read out that speech about revoking their vote.
Fuck me that was entertaining. Just when you thought the internet had hit rock bottom, that community stunt popped up.
Umm, well, I suppose that's good news?
Good stuff vj.
Show us your stacks fellas!
I had a couple of Spotty Gums removed from my front yard that were over-hanging the footpath.
Old mates wanted me to pay $1800 to get rid of the wood and leaves.
Yea naa, I 'll get rid of it myself, without any plan of how I was actually going to do that.
I told 'em to just stack the wood along the front and pile up the leaves in the corner.
My wife txted me at lunch time and told me how much wood was stacked out the front, not to mention the leaves and branches. Unreal, I'm going to get some good pieces when I get home...
Arrive home around 5pm and there was not one single off-cut of trunk left.
It was ALL gone, except for the branches and leaves.
I spent about half an hour each Tuesday arvo for 2 and a half months getting rid of the leaves and small branches.....you'd be surprised how much you can fit into those bins if you keep doing the climb aboard stomp down.
Now I'm just waiting for the right time to spark up the backyard (mini) bonny.
There's a section in 'The Future Is Unwritten' where Joe Strummer is waxing lyrical about the primitive yet progressive function of fires; where problems get sorted out, where ideas get expanded. Sounds kinda earnest, and Strummer always is, but goddamn it if that's not the conversation I want around my backyard blaze.
And smashing TVs? Franti was on the case when fatbacks were still high tech.
The thing I find with fires is that it allows for space around the conversation, it allows time for pauses and thought.
There's less desperation to fill the silence with noise.
I hand split between 10 and 20 cube a year for my family's fire needs. Having an ozzie missus Means the lounge needs to be 27 degrees Celsius if it 5 degrees outside.
If you really want to up your firewood game read this book
The latest Scandinavian publishing phenomenon is not a Stieg Larsson–like thriller; it's a book about chopping, stacking, and burning wood that has sold more than 200,000 copies in Norway and Sweden and has been a fixture on the bestseller lists there for more than a year...
Its called Norweigan wood.
Game changer read if you want to up your understanding about firewood science
How good is anything cooked on an open fire.
Anyone ever checked out Almazan kitchen on Youtube? They're getting a bit silly now but some of the earlier ones are awesome.
That’s the thing about the North West - no devices/ no internet and so the fire is still sacred.
Haha, Norwegian Wood - what else??
An image from Norwegian Wood - I'll stick to my shitty arse stack thanks very much.
That’s some serious OCD wood stacking
"a thoughtful attempt to understand man’s age-old predilection for stacking wood"
Gary G to the green room please.
We’ve never not had wood heating, it’s everything that others have said above ... there is nothing better that letting a fire sap every bit of energy out of you and slowly slipping into a deep sleep, perhaps after a good meal and some red. Our dogs love them too, falling into a coma with their heads on the hearth. Our current dog is shameless sitting in front of it head nodding fighting sleep and finally dropping in front of the fire dead to the world. A fire is a joy.
Talking of books , I’m currently enjoying Last Drinks ( Andrew Mcgahan ).
Spot on , Stu.
Three things one can watch for ever - a fire, the sea and the mountains.
Inzider I refer to my wife as The Lizard - I swear she's cold blooded and doesn't start to move until it's at least 25 degrees. Lucky she's at that stage in life now where the hot flushes have kicked in and I'm saving a bit on wood supply :)