Submitted by GuySmiley on Fri, 11/02/2018 - 14:04
Dedicated to good news ....
I tell ya, this Wuflu ain’t all bad. Not by a long shot.
To be honest , I’ve been praying for a little reprieve from humanity for quite some time . To put it bluntly, I’ve just wished that people would fuck off for a while .....with a caveat that no one got hurt.
And here we are . A very pleasant little time warp.
Streets and beaches are empty. Caravan parks are shut . It’s possible to go for a stroll and see not a single person......bliss.
Except for the virus happening, I’d be getting pitted on the other side of the country by now. But if I’m forced to remain on the East coast then it’s a sweet way to go with the town in lock down.
I’m not straying more than a km or two from the house. Barring a couple of runs to see my parents and do a bit of gardening/ harvesting, I’ve actually gone further in my 13 foot boat than I have in my car in the past month or so.
Everything is within walking distance. I might have missed a few better waves by not driving around chasing them but I sure as fuck don’t miss time spent sitting in a car.
Days are much more relaxed. Getting into a serious coffee ritual and the caffeine uptake is getting a bit crazy. Spending time around the place, a few odd jobs. Getting shit sorted.
Could be much worse.
I’m loving it.
Anyone else finding an upside to the Wuflu ?
Yeah, the best thing about the lockdown has been surfing alone or with just a few other locals.
blowin, looks like you're a powerful owl...
Chook.....how are you finding life under lockdown ?
Is it effecting you to any great degree ?
I'm a Kookaburra with Bower bird tendencies.
I wonder if Myers-Briggs did anything on that?
in many ways, not a lot of change for me...i worked online from home anyway. and i can easily get all my groceries and weed delivered.
but i have no outdoor access now...can't just go sit on a cliff and watch the clouds. can't head down to royal national park for the day. surfing is completely ruled out...the crowds are ridiculous.
being a layabout doesn't work so well when everyone else is now a layabout in a small area.
Shit . That’s heavy.
Good luck with it . The stories of crowds seem a bit abstract from here , they’d be a bastard to deal with.
Hopefully some good news for you sooner rather than later.
It sounds like you’re on to a winner there Chook. Pretty much where I’m at. I think for a lot of people, putting aside the economic and health concerns, this has been a positive experience.
it's not that bad. i'm happy and comfortable at home.
i've put surfing on hold for the moment, so don't have to deal with any crowds.
i'll be out out in the water again soon enough. and when i do, the board's going to fly, i've been sanding it with 1400 grit paper. it's so smoooooth, i can't stop fondling it.
and there's plenty of good news...we didn't get hit like italy, spain, uk or US..
Very funny Zen referencing Myers Briggs like that.
We have Powerful Owls around here and I don’t think Blowin is one at all. The thing about POs is they are deadly silent, never a sound even in flight just a shadow in the night sky.
The one bird missing from Chook’s list are mynas in all their forms - Indian, Noisy and Bell. Undoubtedly the most annoying little twerp of a bird on the planet or at least this part of it. Now who here on SN could be a Myna? Mmmmm .....
A step in the right direction.
Why exactly is it a step in the right direction? Whether this is good for the country depends on multiple factors. A. The Price. B The revenue from the property C. The amount of local employment the property has before and after the sale D. Whether the new owners increase capital investment etc etc etc.
It's a little more complex than Aussie = Good / China = Bad.
"angry online, smiley in the brine"
Very true , Zen.
It’s a good day for news .
So you two idiots would be fine if an Australian paid way too much for the property, as long as they bought it off a Chinese person, and didn't have the resources to improve it?
What happens if a Chinese bloke offers an Aussie farmer a price too good to be true for his property and he says yes to a sale? You blokes would think that's shit.
What happens if a Chinese person buys a run down property and then spends a shit load of cash improving it, hiring local labour to do the work? Is that shit too.
Christ it must be weird going through life thinking as little as you two do.
FFS, because the combined properties are water rich and run about 80,000 head of cattle now owned by an Australian pastoral country with the benefit of profits and tax receipts remaining in Australia.
It'd be good news if it was bought back from an Ethiopian billionaire too.
Australian ownership good/Vic local outrage bad.
Have you read 'Silent Invasion' by Clive Hamilton, VL?
I'm sure you're aware who Hamilton is, a left-winger of impeccable pedigree, not a shouty RWNJ, yet he believes Chinese-owned property and biz is a threat.
Sure, it's not all simple, but I feel more comfortable knowing it's locally-owned.
What did the new Aussie owner use to buy the property? Fairy dust? You do realise the Chinese bloke who just sold the farm takes the cash out of the country? Please tell me you understand that.
You have zero understanding of the farms finances but you're happy to say the deal is good no matter what the purchase price, the farm's revenue, or the current condition of the asset. That's stupidity of the highest order.
Care to enlighten us then?
Zenagin. You said the deal was good news for the country, when you clearly don't have the necessary information to make that claim.
I took it on face value.
If you have the information that the deal is bad for the country i'd respectfully ask you to put up or shut up.
Hey VL, it is good news. Let me explain. Back in my surveying days, I got a great contract for most of Tassie to do, and it took time. In the north of the state I was working around towns where dairy farm after dairy farm was being sold, long held family farms gone. Why? Well, the land was being bought by forestry companies, at the time they were promoted as a great tax offset, and it was all legal. Large amounts of funds were flowing into this. So the daily farm became monoculture complete with baited traps for all the local critters. The family moved to town, or elsewhere, getting up to twice the going market rate for the farm (anedotal, told to me). The locals who were employed on those farms, not so much work if it's just all eucalptus nitens rustling in the breeze.
How is the current situation any different? Instead of an agro-forestry distortion in policy, leading to capital mis-allocation; you get a similar capital mis-allocation from a different cause. The result is the same. Let me explain, again.
In the wake of the GFC, Bernanke's Fed did QE, printed out of thin air, and began a chain of asset buying that led to the 'everything bubble'. The Chinese watched, and I believe have replied - yuan printing, used to hoover up overseas assets - real things like farmland. Some of it could have come from their current account surpluses and savings, but their 40+Tn debt buildup post GFC suggests otherwise, if you can believe any of the numbers. So, you get the same result - a huge (gargantuan) flow of funds coming into a local market and distorting the prices of (in this case) land and resources. It has troubling effects (in this case foreign ownership raising sovereignty issues and local jobs/opportunity).
zenagain. Go and read my comment again and then look up the definition of "if". FFS I never claimed it was bad for the country so I don't need to provide the evidence. You on the other hand, said the deal was good, provided zero evidence and took it at face value. The only thing you've got to draw your conclusion from is the price paid for the property and the ethnicity of the buyer and seller. You're just a little lamb lost in the big bad world of agri-business finance.
Silly nationalism at its finest.
VJ, I like your in depth discussion. It's a breath of fresh air. Yes markets get distorted all the time, but it's not exactly only the Chinese doing it. The timber plantation fiasco was all out government's fault.
Family trusts, tax concessions, agri-businesses domiciled in tax havens, water buy-backs etc etc etc, all favour the big boys in Agri-business. We need to clean up our backyard first. And if what you say is correct and everything goes tits up for the Chinese land buyers, guess who wins in the fire sale.
Australian land in Australian hands is all that matters.
Can you dumb it down any harder blowin? You do know about sovereign risk?
Pad out your slogan, and let's examine the consequences of your latest brain fart.
One of the biggest mistakes Australia ever made was allowing foreign ownership of Australian land.
So other than pissing and moaning about it on swellnet, what exactly do you want done?
Cessation of foreign ownership of Australian soil.
"Cessation of foreign ownership of Australian soil."? Wow. Like a confiscation.
And what happens when other nations retaliate? There go all those Australian owned villas in Bali, and Australian owned surf camps in Indo. What about all those Australian owned mines all around the world? They will get confiscated too. Not only that, your mad plan would piss pretty much every country in the world off, causing export markets to collapse. Great plan. You've just destroyed the economy and caused mass unemployment. But I'm sure Poorlean and ignorant racists will clap and cheer your plan.
Wrong- you put up all these hypotheticals to overstate and over complicate your argument and then say the onus of proof is on me to prove that it was good for Australia. Plus you throw in a couple of insults for good measure which is not a path I'm going to go down.
But, let me say again, on face value, i think having a valuable piece of productive real estate back in Australian hands, employing Australian people, poducing Australian bred livestock for export and no doubt financed in Australia can only be good for Australia. In addition, the family owned pastoral company are no lambs themselves and I could hazard a guess they did their checks and balances before signing off on the sale.
Nationalism is not a dirty word especially with regards to food and energy security. If you're happy to have more and more of Australia in foreign hands, so be it. Don't expect the rest of us to march lock-step in following your skewed views.
A couple of things, I wish Australia would follow a Norwegian path of nationalism- they rightfully believe that their natural resources are the property of the people. The distribution of wealth is much more even in terms of the worth of the top 20％ of earners compared to the bottom. As you would know they have a sovereign wealth fund in the trillions invested around the world in various and diversified ways which will ensure their prosperity for generations to come. You my friend seem to be happy to sell the farm for a few shiny beads and a warm blanket.
Last week I posted a link where a Chinese billionaire snapped up a heritage trophy farm been in the same family 170 years. I believe now that 100％ of Australian wool exports are now Chinese owned and controlled.
What's your blanket made from Vic?
It brings a smile to my face to know that the days of humouring the people crying “ racist “ because Australia is unashamed in asserting its sovereignty are coming to a close.
Fits in with the daily good news thread.
Going to be interesting to see how parties like One Nation go next election, IMHO they are now more relevant than ever.
Pauline hasn't been that far off with a lot of her views on China etc and imagine if we had an election now and Clive Palmer ran those same anti China adds, he would receive even more votes.
If the ALP is genuine with the reduction in immigration and temp visa workers then they will be unstoppable .
"I believe now that 100％ of Australian wool exports are now Chinese owned and controlled." BULLSHIT.
You're most welcome to your opinion, but stop making up silly claims like this and misrepresenting my statements. Foreign ownership of land is complex. Sometimes it's great for local communities and other times it is lousy. It's not a black and white issue.
"Nationalism isn't a dirty word". Hasn't worked out that well for Brazil, UK, North Korea, USA, Zimbabwe, Venuzeula, and pretty much every country that's gone down that path in the last 30 years. In most cases, the flag waving and racism is just a distraction for the masses so they don't see corrupt scoundrels wrecking their countries..
Indo Dreaming. What you are seeing is a fragmentation of right wing nationalism around the western world. We have the shit for brains lunar right and opportunists pushing the anti-Chinese barrow in a desperate attempt to distract the public from their own incompetence and stay in power,
At the end of the day, the uber Nationalist have been found wanting during this crisis. Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson, will all be gone for their woeful performance which has resulted in the unnecessary deaths of so many of their citizens. Their nations are in more shit than a Werribee duck. Female progressive leaders (or conservative leaders who respect the science) around the world have shone. That's a fact.
Hopefully enough Australians can see Uber-nationalism has been a complete failure and punish anyone at the ballot box who follows Trump's ideas.
I'm not misrepresenting your words- i'm responding to you without resorting to insult or hysterics.
Nationalism has worked spectacularly for my example of Norway. I said that is the model I would like Australia to adopt. You introduced those other basket case countries that for the most part are Authoritarian or dictatorships embued with prolonged and systemic corruption to bolster your argument.
I should have fact checked the wool export being Chinese controlled- i read that somewhere just the other day. If it's not true, i apologize.
But, back to my original post, I believe that having these pastoral properties back in Australian hands is a good. You are welcome to think otherwise.
Also, the other day i wrote that I believe that Australias business relationships should be built on reciprocity and mutual benifit, not on aquiesense. There is nothing you can say that will make me change my mind on that and we do not have that relationship with China hence that is why I am against Chinese ownership of Australian assets and resources. You can call me racist, I don't give a damn.
"In most cases, the flag waving and racism is just a distraction for the masses so they don't see corrupt scoundrels wrecking their countries."
And sadly this is news to some. Most?
Guess who Australia's biggest foreign investor is.
And Australia's biggest foreign landowner is and has always been the UK...well, since Australia was invented. By them.
Hey, it's complicated.
“The dog leg. That dog had four legs. One you found in my trunk. The other three went out with the information you're thinking about right now. Two people you don't want coming around here if anything bad happens to me.”
Goodness, is it a stretch to think that most normal people might like to pass things down to their kids?
Australians (and any foreigners for that matter) not allowed to "own " property in Indonesia Vic. Has to have Indonesian interest on titles, long term leases a bit different but no outright ownership, I,m sure Indo dreaming could clarify the details but no comparison to be had there.
Correct and I believe followed by the USA?
Last time I checked though you can own a business or land in those countries?
edit, that was in response to factopuppydale.
Also, I was going to mention Indonesia too Mike. I'm against Indonesian ownership of Australian assets too.
@ Vic Local
"Female progressive leaders (or conservative leaders who respect the science) around the world have shone. That's a fact."
What countries are you referring too?
Can you throw out a couple countries and names?
Only two i can think of off the top of my head is one with NZ, but compared to Australia our death rate per million is the same and Australian per million infection rate is lower than NZ, and Scomo is male and central right. (And a good deal of cases came from that cruise ship, could have been a much different case if it stopped in NZ instead)
Im guessing you are talking about some European countries most doing very bad.
I dont have much knowledge of these leaders you are talking about but only other one i can think of is Angela Merkel of Germany
Germany is doing very good death rate wise per one million, but not so good otherwise, its number 6 in the world for number of infections.
Russia is just below it at number 7 with much less cases per one million and less deaths per one million.
I dont see any pattern, in right wing or left wing, or women or men leaders, i only see a pattern of countries going into lockdown dealing with things best or a pattern of warmer climates seeing to be less affected than colder climates.
BTW. Taiwan and South Korea are countries who have dealt with things the best, what are their leaders?..
"I'm not misrepresenting your words". You were Zenagain. You said I thought the deal where the Australian bought a large agricultural property from a Chinese owner was a bad deal for the country. I never said that and you know it.
I just criticised you for making the claim the deal was good for Australia when you didn't have any of the necessary information to make the claim. I also called BS on your wool claim. At least you had the courage to put up your hand and admit a mistake. Unlikely Blowin will follow that example.
And most of those basket case countries I used as examples of failed nationalism were democracies (with flaws) that became dictatorships. Tin pot dictators generally don't take power with the gun these days. They chip chip chip away at democratic institutions and then rig elections or refuse to hand over power when they lose. Hey, have you been paying attention to the USA lately. Trump's nutter mates took over a governor's office at gunpoint. Can't you see the problem here? I also agree with your Norway example, but that's not exactly the nationalism model blowin has in mind.
Leases or outright ownership in Indonesia is a moot point. If blowin got his way and Australia took back land owned by Indonesians, those leases wouldn't be worth the paper they are written on.
Moot point ? It was made by you? Talking about Aussie "owned" surf camps in your rant above?? I think you need a surf mate
Indo Dreaming. Check out this article re female leadership and Covid 19https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/25/why-do-female-leaders-seem...
Bojo in England and Trump in the USA had ample warnings about the virus. They saw what was happening in China, Iran, Italy, and Spain, and then screwed up big time. England's death rate per infection is off the charts because the NHS has been undermined for decades and BOJO simply didn't prepare the nation while downplaying the seriousness of the virus. Brazil is a mess and getting worse because their leader is a dangerous fool.
The other country that is a big worry is Indonesia. Poor healthcare, a weak central government, and high population densities is a dangerous mix. Jokowi isn't hopelessly incompetent, but cultural factors are a big problem there.
The big tough nationalists have failed miserably.
mikehunt: The ownership/leasing status of Australian (in terms of money not legal status) villas is a moot point IF Australian took blowin's advice and started confiscating land owned by Indonesians. They'd get confiscated either way.
There are consequences to blowin's mad schemes. I'm not too sure retirees in Bali would be overly happy with the obvious retaliation if blowin got his way. Thank god blowin and his political hero Hanson are ignored by the powers-that-be and end up crying on the side lines because they don't get their way.
Some form of nationalism is coming whether you like it or not. It's a terrible turn of phrase but there are forces across the globe resisting globalisation and instead looking for safety in the nation-state. Turn on the news and see what's happening. It's happening elsewhere, it will happen here. In the next decade a new form of nationalism will become political orthodoxy the same way Neo-liberalism slowly became orthodoxy through the late 70s and 80s.
Now you can either resist that to the death, hold onto an outdated ideology and watch the world change without you, or try and understand what's happening.
In a political sense, I hope that clever Australians can get out ahead of the curve and control the change, the same way Hawke and Keating got out ahead of the Neolib wagon and put their stamp on it, one that thankfully included many progressive and socially just anchor points. To do so now would be to harness a great power and guide it; use it for it's best ends.
I'm not naive to the wayward capacity of nationalism, I know my history, but I believe - have to believe - that understanding what's occuring is key to good outcomes.
China has simply been the catalyst for our reckoning.
Argh okay, sorry its just click bait article for the female followers of the Guardian the facts and figures dont support it.
Like i said Australia and Scomo has done just as good as Jacinta and NZ or even slightly better based on per million figures which is really the only way you can compare countries..
Germany hasn't done well at all its only their health system that is exceptional, and Russia is doing much better and male and nationalistic..
Yeah Taiwan has done amazing women leader yeah but progressive leader?...dont know but wouldn't have thought so?
South Korea is also a big stand out male and progressive?
Singapore was also doing real good, but got blasted by a second wave, hate to say that to being a big fan of their government, but something tp possibly learn there.
BTW. It's funny a very left news outlet taking a women are better at this than men outlook, i though according to the left men and women are the same and you can say a few words to yourself and changes your gender when you want?
The smart countries would be offshoring in India. A politically stable country, democratic with a similar system of law not to mention a huge pool of labor. English is spoken as well facilitating trade. Millions ready to be lifted out of poverty and geographically close to established and emerging markets.
I'd be moving my manufacturing there.
well said Stu.
"Some form of nationalism is coming whether you like it or not."
Stunet, There's also going to be renewed globalism as well.
Many nations are going to work out that international problems (global warming / pandemics / ocean plastic / natural disasters / multinational supply lines etc require global solutions. We can expect countries working on these together. China, whether you like them or not, has stepped up with soft diplomacy handing out PPE to Pacific nations, African Nations, Central Asian Nations etc. We've also witness scientists working on a global effort during this crisis with open source research.
Let's just pray the nationalism is in the form of tightening our supply chains for essential products rather than the USA / Brazil model. That's a recipe for economic and humanitarian disasters, and failed states.
If we don't travel internationally for business, study, holidays, and cultural exchange, we will end up travelling for war.
The scary thing is, I can't see Scotty from Marketing being a globalist at all. He's a Trump-lite flag waver, and that may please the Hansonites, but it's terrible for the country. I will leave you with my favourite Hunter S Thompson quote, written in 1972 but perfect for this discussion 48 years later.
"The main problem in any democracy is that crowd-pleasers are generally brainless swine who can go out on a stage & whup their supporters into an orgiastic frenzy—then go back to the office & sell every one of the poor bastards down the tube for a nickel apiece.”
Hey Vic, can I ask you a question regarding my original post?
Having met all the criteria you outlined above, do you think the business returning to Australian ownership is a good outcome?