Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

dimitrios10's picture
dimitrios10 started the topic in Tuesday, 29 May 2018 at 5:10pm

I am curious if you guys like DonaldTrump, or do you hate him?

rooftop's picture
rooftop's picture
rooftop commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 3:13pm

The turkey who has woken up every day of his life in a warm, dry barn and been fed until he can't eat any more sees no reason why tomorrow will be any different. After all, the trend is clear. It's happened 364 days in a row right?

What the turkey doesn't understand is tomorrow is Thanksgiving.

When kids do something stupid and risky and you point out how close they came to injury or disaster, they always same the same thing: but it didn't happen! I'm fine. What are you worried about?

Risk is real, whether it happens or not. Not all warnings are fear mongering, especially when it comes to existential threats.

Furthermore, the costs of playing it safe with regards to existential threats is far outweighed by the potential cost of ignoring them.

Heeded warnings and averted disasters through avoidance of unnecessary risks are non-events and so we often don't see them at all. They're not sexy, but they are as valuable as the disaster is costly.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 3:26pm

No Blowin, you were not right. You still seem to be having trouble with the concept of risk.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 3:53pm

Rooftop - Not all warnings are fearmongering , but a bunch of eggheads standing next to a massive , mock clock face theatrically turning the hands closer towards imminent destruction is definitive fear mongering. Particularly when they’ve assembled the world’s media to film them doing so.

And it’s politically motivated fear mongering.

BTW Your analogy of the turkeys was inappropriate as the death of the turkeys was a foregone conclusion.

BB - I don’t have a problem understanding the concept of risk. In a previous time in my life I was required to legally quantify and document the level of risk involved in every action i undertook . I understand risk , alright.

I just don’t understand the concept of blindly swallowing the garbage that others may spout due to their occupations in an unrelated industry. Paying heed to the opinions of nuclear scientists on the likelihood of their weapons being deployed due to politics is like asking a cattle farmer what he thinks about the marketing techniques utilised by a restaurant chain which happens to have beef included on the menu.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 3:57pm

Let’s just hope that Bernie Sanders gets up next time around.

And let’s hope that he continues to give it to China if he does.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:01pm

Blindboy, I'm also wondering how Trump is seen as such a massive threat to world peace etc.

Relations with North Korea have thawed, same with Russia.

Trump has instigated harsh sanctions against Iran but the U.S. imposing sanctions is hardly unique to him.

The main concern seems to be a potential power vacuum caused by Trump's isolationist policies.

The ex-head of M16 says “The biggest threat the world faces is how we all adjust to the progressive withdrawal of responsible American leadership and the network of alliances that America maintained with Europe, with Asian countries and the partnerships they had across the region.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-greate...

As far as I'm concerned, a weakening of the global hegemon that brought us Grenada, Libya (1986), Gulf War 1, Afghanistan, Iran War 2, North West Pakistan, Somalia, Libya (2011), Yemen and Libya (2015) et al doesn't sound like a bad thing.

It's pretty interesting that a reduction in U.S. imperialism and military interventions is seen as threatening world peace.

No doubt Trump is a buffoon but is it any wonder that he gets crucified in the MSM for threatening the corporations which get obscenely rich through U.S military actions.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 3:59pm

Fucking Democrat / Clinton complex .

The world could have had this version: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-china/

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:02pm

Of course an expert on North Korea wouldn't know anything either .......
“Most people are not aware of how close we came to nuclear war and how plausible it actually was throughout 2017 and early 2018.”

That’s North Korea expert Van Jackson’s stunning conclusion. In his new book On the Brink: Trump, Kim, and the Threat of Nuclear War, Jackson retraces the Washington-Pyongyang standoff during President Donald Trump’s first two years in office.

He identified at least “seven or eight moments” when he believed war between the US and North Korea was possible. And while much of the tensions had to do with North Korea’s aggression before Trump took office, the president found ways to make it much, much worse.

“Trump talks shit everywhere about everybody, but only as it relates to North Korea did we come close to nuclear war because of it,” Jackson, a former Obama administration official now at Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand, told me. “So I blame Trump, but I don’t blame him entirely.”

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:04pm

You obviously can’t assess risk , Andy.

Don’t you know that Trump once said that money , power and fame can attract women who will allow their genitalia to be touched.

You can guarantee that a man such as that will destroy the world with nuclear weapons.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:34pm

Blowin I think it's interesting how close to the truth you are with regards to what motivates people's thinking.

Also, "Bernie also strongly supports efforts to prevent foreign sales of weapons to China to prevent them from building up their military."

Fuck, Bernie is going to face an uphill struggle with certain power cliques :-)

By the way BB, your appeal to authority re a bunch of nuclear scientists, was weak.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:28pm

BB, that same article says that "tensions could escalate if Trump leaves office."

Sounds like Van Jackson is hedging his bets and trying to sell a book.

"Stunning conclusion" my arse.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:25pm

What are the chances the US and North Korea go to nuclear war, then?

Van Jackson: "If I had to put a probability on it, I’d say it’s quite low. I would’ve said that even during the 2017 crisis, though."

AndyM's picture
AndyM's picture
AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:25pm

The sky is falling.

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:34pm

Risk is unlimited when you don't know what the actions or decisions a US president will take.

Anyone here wanna guess Trumps next move?

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:44pm

My money says that global heavy hitters see Trump as the joke he is, full of piss and wind.

You reckon Putin and Xi Jinping take Trump seriously? They've got him pegged, certainly Putin has. Putin would look Trump in the eye and Trump would simultaneously get moist and soil himself.
Hence the nappy.

Offer Trump a business deal and he'll sit at your feet.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 4:46pm

My guess he’ll say something a bit embarrassing and then he’ll continue to attempt to reestablish the sovereign strength of the US which has previously been undermined by recklessly allowing US based transnational companies to forget that there’re only as successful as they are due to being bolstered by the might of the US at large.

That is , he’s encouraging they’re success at enriching America through global competitiveness, whilst reminding them that they’ve only achieved what they did due to US backing.

The corporations that sent their manufacturing jobs and supply chain to China are the tail , not the dog. Trade disputes with China which are affecting their bottom line are the price they must now pay to rectify their overstepping.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 5:02pm

You want to know what he does next. Consider this ........ if you look around you will see the same opinion expressed over and over again. Nobody knows what he will do because he doesn't know himself. There is no plan, just an infantile ego in search of a boost.

"Neither allies nor adversaries have been able to reliably predict US actions—or understand when US pronouncements are real, and when they are mere rhetoric. International diplomacy has been reduced to name-calling, giving it a surrealistic sense of unreality that makes the world security situation ever more threatening."

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 5:25pm

Boohoo , BB.

There’s no such thing as certainty in this world . There never was and there never will be. There’s only politics. Xi Jinping said that China would never militarise the SCS islands and guess what....they militarised them.

Macron said he’d govern for the people ....next minute, it’s yet another corporate sell out.

The world of politics is the world of self interested false statements and misdirection , but now people are getting emotional because someone they don’t support is doing it. The result is the same.

Grow up and deal with it.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 5:57pm

An increase in hate crime, increased risk of nuclear war, 800,000 workers not getting paid, numerous associates pleading guilty to crimes which relate to his campaign, the FBI investigating him for treason, suspicions of money laundering, clear evidence of perverting the course of justice. Did I forget something?

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 6:24pm

Yeah you forgot anything that’s not unproven accusations developed by his opponents.

Increase in hate crime ! If invading another country without any justification isn’t the greatest hate crime ever , I’m not sure what is. And Trump is the only president for decades not to have done so. You talk about shark attacks being statistically unlikely , then what are your chances of suffering “ hate crimes “ even in violent America?

Increased risk of nuclear war : speculative supposition, unfounded bullshit.

FBI investigation : futile , politically motivated. Failed attempt at coup by political opponents.

Money laundering suspicions: more unsubstantiated bullshit , politically motivated smears .

Perverting the course of justice, clear evidence. !!! : FFS , if there was evidence he’d be gone.

800,000 workers without pay : Blame the Democrats who are causing the wish of the people to be denied and using peoples livelihoods as a bargaining chip.

You’re a dreamer , BB. Too bad that you dream of a world where democracy can be subdued to suit your wishes.

French people rioting in their thousands with support of the vast majority of French people due to their leader being a corporate stooge , getting elected under false pretences.

China militarising the world in preparation for attempting to attain dominion. Chinese leader making himself incontrovertible ruler for life and openly saying that China will invade Taiwan and murder its citizens by the thousand in order to kick off their global campaign.

And you’re whining about Trump....

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 6:44pm

Well Blowin, we'll see. It may be that when all the evidence is out that Trump's associates committed all the crimes without him knowing, though admitting that you fired a public official to protect yourself from an investigation will always be tricky. Of course, if he is found guilty I doubt that you will be prepared to accept the evidence. Confirmation bias being your default style.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 7:12pm

For sure, Trump’s alleged assistance from Russia to convince a few people not to vote for Hillary two years ago is the biggest threat facing mankind.

Tell me , what do you think of China’s stated intention to take Taiwan by force if necessary ? Taiwan being an entirely seperate, sovereign country who has no desire to be subdjugated by a foreign nation , will want and receive international assistance to resist China . This would probably lead to war on a massive scale . How will you blame Trump for this ?

Why aren’t you on here writing off Xi Jinping who is clearly the greatest threat to world peace ?

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/signaling-a-harder-edge-for-2...

From Reuters : Xi’s comments about support for peaceful “reunification” included a warning that “we do not promise to renounce the use of force and reserve the option to use all necessary measures” to prevent Taiwan’s independence.
In a major speech on Wednesday, Xi warned the “problem” could not be held over for another generation.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apps-taiwan-commentary/commentary-wil...

That’s not just sabre rattling, that’s an outright intention to invade Taiwan within the next couple of decades. What do your egghead fear mongers at the nuclear lab have to say about that little threat to world peace ?.......crickets.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 7:37pm

China has had the same policy on Taiwan since the Nationalists fled there after the communist revolution. From time to time over that period they have made similar threats but have never to the best of my knowledge done more than that. The current threats may be mainly for domestic consumption but the decline of US interest and influence in the region may also have played a role. There would seem to be near zero risk of any military action for the foreseeable future. The Taiwanese know the game and are used to the threats so they have attracted very little interest there. Realpolitik suggests that China has nothing to gain and a lot to lose from starting a war.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 7:50pm

Well I guess there’s no doubt why you’re known as Blindboy now . Also interesting to note that you’re more versed in the likelihood of war than the resident political expert at Reuter’s international news agency.

Anyway ....back to the real threat to global stability , that of Trump causing “ hate crime “ and being sexist.

I focus's picture
I focus's picture
I focus commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 7:59pm

Blowin ................Breitbart is your calling :-)

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:15pm

Worth pointing out that China has never done anything nearly as threatening to world peace and stability as the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan and forcing regime change in Libya, not to mention the reckless US drone attacks in sovereign nations that have killed many civilians. And China has never been nearly as disruptive as the US has been in just last year when Trump withdrew the US from the Paris climate accord and from UNESCO, cut funding to the United Nations and recognized Jerusalem as the Israeli capital.

If Trump was a man of peace he would get serious about minimising the US influence of the MIC and US military imperialism. He should be pushing for less military funding and reducing the 800 odd bases that pepper the planet.
But that would not go down well with his supporters, not to mention the old fart Republican neocons in the Senate.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:16pm

What about you Focus ?

You think that Trump tweeting stupidity from his bedroom at 2AM is more dangerous than Xi Jinping and his boardroom full of professional oppressors of humanity soberly planning their intentions to overthrow other countries and insinuate their diaspora throughout the governments and rival political systems of the world ?

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:19pm

Not much news value in
"China repeats same old threats, widely ignored in Taiwan, peaceful reunification top of the agenda.."
........ Reuters is in the business of selling news. Same old media bullshit, like the housing "crisis" etc etc

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:21pm

Ummm....he’s trying to do exactly that.

Trying to pull troops out of Syria is precisely what you want and you’re still not happy ? Literally the first attempt at withdrawing US forces from the Middle East and everyone jumps down his throat.

Obama - Nobel peace prize recipient- increased US presence in the Middle East and he’s been beautified. Trump tries to get out and he’s pilloried. Funny old world.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:27pm

BB , show me where China has threatened Taiwan with invasion previously. Particularly by a self elected dictator for life. And after they’ve militarily assumed ownership of vast tracts of the globe, and established military bases on foreign soil. And subjugated other countries through extreme debt burdens that were introduced through extreme corruption. And contested alliances throughout every region of the globe in order to shore up its designs for global supremacy.

And then tell me how it’s the same unassuming China from 60 years ago.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:33pm

Imagine those Chinese having the nerve to do what European countries have been doing for centuries and using the same degree of aggression and manipulation world powers have always used. What did you think China was going to do? Be the first ethical super-power? Sounds a bit naive to me.

Laurie McGinness

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:39pm

What! Now I'm your history teacher! Has Wikipedia crashed?

Laurie McGinness

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:48pm

No problem with the US withdrawing from the Middle East in an orderly fashion. Doing it by tweet before discussing it with your military commanders or allies was pretty dumb, no sorry, the act of a complete fucking moron!

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 8:54pm

That's it - Obama, the smooth talking man of colour, could do no wrong.

And ol' Stooge McTrump does something that should theoretically appease the Progressive Left like taking troops out of Syria and Afghanistan and he gets hammered.

With regards to China, they're really going to have to up their game if they're going to come close to matching the mayhem caused by the U.S over the past century or so.

Just out of interest Blowin, how was Obama beautified - a bit of lippy and a pedicure? ; )

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 9:08pm

They're still there Andy. Wait until it actually happens.

Laurie McGinness

I focus's picture
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I focus commented Sunday, 13 Jan 2019 at 10:06pm

" Xi Jinping and his boardroom full of professional oppressors "

Inside China if you are on the wrong side Xi is a massive threat to your well being and agree in part re Taiwan should domestic issues deteriorate inside China and force Xi to look for a distraction. But as BB has pointed out the threats made against Taiwan have been ongoing since 1949.

The general Chinese population have now experienced economic growth for some time and will be expecting more for the future, a war with Taiwan would end that growth.

The risk of Trump is as you point out he is not surrounded by highly professional advisers and if there are any left he wont listen to them any way.

The wall saga is pure politics (nothing to do with party politics remember the Reps could have passed the funding any time they wanted to in the last 2 years?)continued because Trump was criticised for maybe backing down by a Fox commentator go figure FFS you could not make this stuff up.

Xi is a risk because there are no institutions to contain his behaviour or power, Trump is a risk because he is hell bent on breaking destroying the instructions that contain his behaviour / power.

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GuySmiley commented Monday, 14 Jan 2019 at 3:18pm

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Wednesday, 16 Jan 2019 at 7:34pm

This shutdown timing is quite weird. As chook points out, technically he could have passed the wall when they had the house of reps. However, I did read somewhere that they didn't do it because he didn't have the numbers of his own party. Probably the mexican employing, free market loving, forever resisting internationalists don't like it I'd imagine.

Anyway, I was thinking this immigration wall thingy might be the thing that finally brings trump down. Taking such a hard nut stance on something that doesn't really cross over to many voters, not beyond his nutty wall crew supporters anyway. Plus, pushing this shutdown thing so far that it really hurts people can't be a popular move. And, public servants that might have once supported trump could be getting pretty pissed right about now.

I thought he might have made too big of a deal about a not overly transferable issue. And then really pushed it to the enth degree and beyond. Not wavering at all. I thought he'd got too cocky.

He might have...

Or, he might have just orchestrated his most audacious, beyond outrageous, dastardly donny disruptive deception yet...

This guy thinks maybe so. Saying it's possibly a concocted, balls to the wall, play on the democrats, or the establishment, or whoever, where trump might get his wall, whilst possibly draining the swamp and culling the bureaucracy he hates so much in the process.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/trumps_shutdown_trap.html

Yep it's a trump propoganda machine website, but it's not that far fetched an idea....for trump....

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Wednesday, 16 Jan 2019 at 8:06pm

Agree with the first part sypkan but even after reading your link I'm thinking its still detrimental to his re election.
If any of those employees who get sacked are Republican voters then you can be pretty confident that they wont vote for him again. Losing your job is not a pleasant experience for most people(unless you're a pollie or a CEO).
If Trump gave 'draining the swamp' the same energy as he is to building his wall I would consider the link above to be more believable.
Imho he's still a fuckwit who happens to be the 'Prez'.

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Sunday, 20 Jan 2019 at 8:03pm

2018 Trump! [ TEAR DOWN FENCE ] [ BUILD THE WALL ] [ BUILD THE WALL ]

Trump bins [ BABY TALK SLOGANS ]
Civic minded Trump! [ TOUCHY FEELY SPIN ]
'Much of the border is already protected by natural barriers of mountains & water!'

Trump today! [ POWERFUL SEE THRU BARRIER HALVES DRUG & CRIME RATE ]

[ FUCK THE WALL ][ BUILD A #@*% BARRIER ][ CALL IT WHATEVER YOU LIKE ]

Note: [ Dems SAY NO ] Well before Trumps - Miss Universe Speech!

(Updated-Wall enviro' impact)
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/10/14471304/trump-bord...

(Flooding Impacts)
https://qz.com/1353798/the-us-mexico-border-walls-dangerous-costly-side-...

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blindboy commented Sunday, 20 Jan 2019 at 9:17pm
Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Sunday, 20 Jan 2019 at 10:40pm

Good for a laugh , BB.

Funny how the article bemoans Trump’s failure to commit to infrastructure construction when the entire shutdown is caused by the Democrats protesting an infrastructure spend.

What’s the spend on ? A wall .

And what would the wall do ? Stem the constant river of cheap labour flowing from central and southern America which underpins the oversupply maintaining downwards pressure on wages.

Pressure which has been in existence and attributable to the 50 years decline in wages as the article states.....don’t you think it’s finally time to address the issue at the well head ?

As for their interpretation of the tax cuts , well we’ve discussed that.

More fake news I’m afraid.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/inside-mueller-team-s-decisio...

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Sunday, 20 Jan 2019 at 10:24pm

This is interesting:

Beijing is reportedly promising the moon to reach a China trade deal with President Trump. A new Bloomberg News report says China has offered to buy more than $1 trillion in additional imports over six years, shrinking its $323 billion trade surplus with the U.S. to zero by 2024. While investors are increasingly confident that a China trade deal will happen, the news of a Chinese buying spree added a little hot sauce to the Dow Jones and broader stock market rally on Friday.

https://www.investors.com/news/economy/china-trade-deal-offer-to-trump-l...

truebluebasher's picture
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truebluebasher commented Monday, 21 Jan 2019 at 3:50am

Trumponomics trickledown.
[Factcheck] Corporates find paying wages a chore. Corps prefer to employ robots.
More Supermarkets with more checkouts each with less & less checkout chicks.

Govt gives Corps more money to buy more robot checkouts...
Sacked employees trickle down to the curb joining the homeless queue.
Had Trump not given corps the cash-checkout chick would still be clinging onto job.

Here's how Trumptonomics works at Government level.

Do as I say or our fabulous hardworking U.S. civil service won't get paid.
Trump: Never pay anyone! Treat all employees like a peice of shit...Art of the deal!
Love Robots! Fantastic People!

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 12:51pm

Meanwhile Captain Kook and his scurvy crew sail their rat infested ship of state ever closer to the exposed rocks.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/24/donald-trump-venez...

Laurie McGinness

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 1:11pm

Blindboy, here is a list of countries who recognise Guaido over Maduro - the U.S. is not alone in this.

Albania
Argentina
Brazil
Canada
Chile
Colombia
Costa Rica
Denmark
Ecuador
France
Guatemala
Honduras
Panama
Paraguay
Perú
Republic of Kosovo
Spain
United Kingdom
United States

But Trump said that “all options are on the table”, I hear you say.

Standard rhetoric that's gone on for decades.

Your pathological dislike of Trump knows no bounds.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 3:05pm

Here's a list too.

https://revista.drclas.harvard.edu/book/united-states-interventions

Scroll down.

Obviously it's not updated as yet. No Venezuela.

Watch this space.

The more things change etc etc, hey?

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 3:09pm

The U.S. are nothing if not thorough.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 3:25pm

It was more to do with Trump's belligerence and the fact that his team have no experience in foreign affairs. Consider that the man in charge of the world's largest nuclear arsenal is an ex-Boeing executive with no military or diplomatic experience nor any relevant qualifications.

Laurie McGinness

garyg1412's picture
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garyg1412 commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 4:02pm

Classic that quote in The Guardian "Lincoln had a team of rivals; Trump has a team of morons"
That people right there is your nutshell.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Friday, 25 Jan 2019 at 4:23pm

Obama called Venezuela a "threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States", and you're calling Trump belligerent?

Where's your logic? Did Obama saying what he said mean that his team had no experience in foreign affairs?

And I don't see what your second sentence has got to to with anything right now unless you're saying that they're going to nuke Caracas.