Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

Quotes from Trump's last rally

' deplorables are the greatest people on earth'

Beautiful, deadly symmetry....

'You have a president who is loyal and faithful to you'

He can say that and be believed.....because his actions prove it.

I can't agree with the negative judgements of Trumps motives or actions, because his actions in office have consistently lined up with his words.
He is so determined to keep his promises that attacks on his honesty take on the appearance of lies.
He is believable, effective, a great, unique communicator, ....and has grown better on the job under incredible pressure.

Blindboy

Could you please quote the Trump boast of sexually assaulting women?.

What would be the reaction if this were an effigy of Obama?.
The left reek of hypocrisy.

https://m.

Blob the fact that you cannot answer a simple ,"what would Jesus do ? " shows either a lack of knowledge of the Gospel , or failure to understand who Jesus was a person and his message, so that's fine as long as you do not invoke false statements using the name of God , or Jesus or Christians , as people like yourself have are doing great harm to God/Jesus's message to humanity..!

oh dear Blobby ,Beautiful, deadly symmetry....

'You have a president who is loyal and faithful to you'

He can say that and be believed.....because his actions prove it.

I can't agree with the negative judgements of Trumps motives or actions, because his actions have consistently lined up with his words.
He is so determined to keep his promises that attacks on his honesty take on the appearance of lies.

You have to be taking the piss haha....would you say ,"Melania would think the Trumpy is loyal and faithful , as his actions have consistently shown towards women/blacks/Hispanics etc his true colors , , but you say all the stories about Chapter 11/Bankruptcy/Stormy D + the 18 other women , The video of how famous people like him just grab women on the pussy , yeah all lies ..actually the Don is the only person who doesn't lie on the planet and Bob's new Messiah!

What would Jesus the prophet from quran do?

Saw a Trump supporter on TV this morning saying that he’d “ Take a grenade for Trump “.

Just a fella off the street . Surely that can’t be genuine ?

Can you imagine a single Australian saying that they’d die for a politician of any alignment ? Crazy old world.

Sharkman

I'll let you put words in Jesus' mouth since you know what he'd say.
You are welcome to quote Him all day yourself instead of demanding I agree with your naive, pushy judgements.
You might be surprised to know that your style of religious rant doesn't do it for me.

Blowin

Cynicism is toxic too.
Im sure some would die for Trump.
The way politics is turning into a blood sport it may be no exaggeration.

Blob. You quote the bible so you must be familiar with it.

Therefore you should be able to provide instruction to Sharkman based of God's word.

If you can't then your either embarrassing yourself, or showing the faith to be an embarrassment.

Sharkman

I think I'm understanding where you're coming from.
Blob is not allowed to express his religious or political beliefs because Sharkman can shut him down cause Sharkman speaks for Jesus.
Sorry Calvin, that's not the way I see God working.
In my way of seeing religion you are free to believe and say what you like, and I'm free to contradict you.

I'm of the view that God gives us a brain and expects us to use it.

Do you open your house to any vagrant that wants a bed, or would you be judicious about how you help the needy?.
I know people who have practiced naive charity with disastrous personal consequences.

Questions for you:

Do you think Jesus agrees with your demand that I should not be allowed to express my personal beliefs just because you both speak for Jesus and disagree with me?.

Was Australia right to turn back the boats?.

Has your leftist politics wedged your religion to the point that you are unable to forgive Trump's faults?.

Why is it that so many Christians are pro Trump?

oh Blobby boy , seems like you are having to make up things that I have not done or said , fake news style, such as me putting words into Jesus's mouth.....the Gospel is very clear!

My Naive pushy judgement...or you unable to understand the meaning of the son of God and his purpose , lessons and why he died...hmmm, so that's called a religious rant in your dark world?

It is very clear to me , based on what you have written , and debated here , that you do not follow the very clear message , " What would Jesus do??" either because you don't really know the New Testament , or just cherry pick what suits your dark agenda/Philosophies!

HappyasS

That is a typically lame attempt HappyasS.
Do you need adult supervision when you get to go out of the house?.
Congratulations, Team Swelleft has found a lefty Christian.....I hope you make him feel at home.
I'm sure you'll be able to work out your little differences easily.
Your comment is actually quite funny.

Sharkman

Ok,..
... let's look at what you've said.

You claim to know Jesus mind because you have a knowledge of the gospel and understand who Jesus was as a person...right?.
It's so obvious, you say...
You also said because I don't understand the gospel like you, I should not 'invoke false claims' in Gods name or as a Christian....right?.
Seems you think you have some sort of authority to shut me down.
I'm happy to test that.
Tell you what Calvin, you start another thread ....'Bibles at ten paces'....and we can carry on our debate without boring all the non believers.

...and you like demanding answers to questions....so answer the questions

Right wing people are crrazeee
Let's welcome honorary Team Swelleft member Sinead

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/11/06/muslim-convert-sinead-oconno...

See, the unmovable object wins! His volley is unstoppable. Everyone owes me $10...

whoa Blobby , there you go again.....alternative facts to suit your agenda!

I do not claim to know Jesus's mind , but have read his teachings in the New Testament and what the disciples wrote about him , seems very clear to me he was the son of God , not sure we know him as a person , but maybe you do?

I question your interpretation of the Bible when you cannot answer "What would Jesus do?" when applied to some of your Nationalistic views and statements.....just doesn't apply to Jesus that's all....and therefore some of your comments are just personal views but certainly not Gods!

I have no authority to shut you down and would not do so , but I do have the right to observe and comment on some of your hypocrisy when you invoke Christian values to back up whatever comment you have made....I find it quite amusing ,a tad dark but keeps up a conversation that in this day and age needs to be discussed in a civilized manner ...I don't demand thats in your head , I politely ask questions which seem to intimidate you , so you have to revert alternative facts which is basically a right wing whinge!

Sharkman

" .......shows either a lack of knowledge of the Gospel , or failure to understand who Jesus was a person and his message, ...."

Direct quote Sharkman
How can you accuse me of a failure to understand who Jesus was as a person and then say "...not sure we know him as a person..."

...and you want to accuse me of twisting your words.

You say I lack understanding but you can't even see your plain contradictions.
You may know the mind of Jesus, but even Jesus might have trouble understanding your comments.

ah blobby , now we are into semantics , but lets go....what I meant was the person Jesus is , is the son of God , but as a person , as there was only really 3 yrs documented of his life , don't know the person as well as would like , I mean who doesn't want to know what happened the other 30 years of his life , but we know Jesus from when he started preaching , simple no?

So I have tried to differentiate a whole life ( Person)vs just 3 years ( Son of God)

Sharkman

Direct quotes
"...do not invoke false statements using the name of God"
Then...
"I have no authority to shut you down and would not do so "
Tell you what Calvin...its your alternative facts that suit my agenda nicely.

"...the Don is the only person who doesn't lie on the planet"....since I never said that you at least have proven that you dont mind an "alternative fact" yourself.
You and the Don should get together and swap notes on Christianity, lies and incoherence

Sharkman

Your semantics are melting....so easily

Depriving even lower life forms of oxygen usually kills them.

How does a good man and an admired supporter of women get transformed into a rapist?.

Just ask Team Swelleft.

"The left does not win its battles in debate. It doesn’t have to. In the twenty-first century, media is everything. The left wins because it controls the narrative. The narrative is controlled by the media. The left is the media. Narrative is everything,” Andrew Breitbart in his memoir, Righteous Indignation.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/05/mansour-manufacturing-a-sm...

.

Blindboy

Impotent revenge fantasies will make you go blind.....oops.
Thanks for the oxygen though...

Donald Trump anyone, given that the mid-terms are actually in progress

I'm keeping my guns that's for sure.

Predictions for the House?

Don't have a prediction but hopefully Trump wins, otherwise some nut-job follower might go postal...

The people most likely to be killed by a particular gun are the owner and their family.

Terminal presumably you mean the Republicans

Yeah Republicans. Honestly, my interest in American politics is low at best; the country is on the way out anyway. What I find more interesting is the normalisation of Russia at present, and China slowly but surely buying the rest of the world.

Blindboy Wrote:
"........ or read this.
https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/rivalry-feud/sticks-and-stones"

Wow I think you may have taken me out of context. I'm not proposing a forum with 'more hugs' in any sense. I am all for what the article you have linked above is referring to when they suggest 'Strife' is necessary. I also think Strife in their context has the potential to be civil.

As I read, they are saying something akin to: Democracy relies on the ability for people to bring their opinions to the table forcefully and ensure they are heard and not drowned out by the opposition so they can compete for favourability.

True. So then when I question the "Civility" shown between you and Blob what am I hoping to address?

1) An intolerance to listen and deconstruct an alternative view by asking questions and seeking the root issues (or responding when fairly questioned), and
2)The personal attacks of character, because of a political view

I don't have an issue with anyone's hurt feelings. That is not why I am appealing toward civility.

What I can see is that there is an exhaustion of sorts for one side to be able to articulate their opinion convincingly and have it understood by the other side. But rather than pushing through the exhaustion, and patiently questioning and deconstructing the counter-position, it is easier to declare the opponent incompetent.

So someone declares someone else incompetent and vice versa and now we're here, none the wiser, more firmly planted in our camp, and more resentful than before.

I don't see how that helps to build a bridge between the division, which is largely a natural phenomenon (based on trait personality) and will always remain within society (as your article purports).

Both of you are criticising either left wing or right wing extremist views that are becoming more prevalent, but I don't see how your current approach to the dialog is working to reduce the general movement toward the extremes.

Provocateurs do not want a debate, they want a slanging match. The article, in my reading, suggested that incivility has its place.

Nice one yocal

"Both of you are criticising either left wing or right wing extremist views that are becoming more prevalent"

Yet neither can see that their view is somewhat extreme.

And there we have an the key problem with contemporary politics...in a nutshell...

IMO it was worth listening to some of the points Blob was making.

I will leave him to you then Stu. The Democrats are 5 up in the House.

........make that 9 up!

Blob was unreal.

He wasn’t lacking in civility any more than 90 percent of the crew on Swellnet. He wasn’t a provocateur, he just had his opinion. I agree with more than a little of what he had to say even though I’m of a quite different political persuasion.

It’s funny watching him give it to the self righteous .

I would also agree that incivility has its place, particularly in violent conflict. The article indicates the presence of violence throughout political history.

I wonder whether provocation has its place too, sometimes I see that it forces upward a fundamental, uncomfortable opinion that might be veiled by attempts at civility. I think there are alternatives to provocation though, which can achieve an outcome with less risk of escalation to conflict.

I don't know for sure whether or not Blob is a provocateur.

Blob, are you a provocateur? What motivates you to dismiss when you read leftwing opinions?

Whatever the outcome the real winner will be the Republican gerrymanders and laws that make it hard for people to vote or ban people from voting at all.

The outcome of all American elections are distorted in truly undemocratic ways.

America, land of the free?

Wentworth elections- Dave Sharma got 32800 votes whilst Kerryn Phelps got 22200 votes.

Phelps won just as Trump won in the US with less votes.

What’s the difference ?

Both are a joke ....just like the rest of politics.

True Guy, but if the Democrats have the House it will seriously limit Trump. There is still some distance to go but it is looking hopeful.

from what I understand if the Dems get the house then the Mueller Investigation is likely to be upheld, which is what I am most interested in.

Blowin, what I said isn't hearsay its fact. Even the most basic online search will give you an insight into the distortion of the democratic dream. Check it out and inform yourself.

yocal, part of Mueller's brief was that his work should not interfere with any elections. There are suggestions that he has something big and has had to wait for the mid-terms. We may have already seen peak Trump.

Looks like the blue wave has broken. All the major US networks are projecting a Democrat win in the House

“I'm keeping my guns that's for sure.”

Thank God for that Blob.

The Democrats winning the House is a step towards more reasonable governance in the US. But only a step. Trump will take comfort from winning both the Govenor and the Senate seat in Florida and see it as a good omen for his re-election. It is hard to imagine that he cares about anything beyond that, which makes him a perfect politician. It is an enormous handicap to actually care about the country or the welfare of its people and an even greater one to believe in ........ well anything at all really beyond your personal magnificence.

Having the Democrats in control of the House will also be a ready made excuse for a failure to implement his more extreme policies. A failure that will help less committed voters, while he bashes the Democrats for their obstruction to reinforce his base. For the Democrats much depends on Mueller. Presumably evidence of treason, a realistic possibility, would be too much for all but the true deplorables amongst his base. The Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist factions might stick with him and the borderline Alzheimers cases feeding their melanomas in the Florida sun, but treason? Surely that would be enough to bring him down.

Assuming that Mueller finds less extreme crimes, it will come down to a fight. After all, amongst the obscene wealth that funds both parties, a little injudicious money laundering by the Russian mafia cannot be so uncommon as to ruin the chances of an incumbent President. Nor, having once elected a pussy grabbing compulsive liar, should a creative approach to tax constitute a problem when the difference between cheating and minimisation comes down to the political connections of your legal representatives.

The US has been in decay for decades. Its criminal justice system with its enormous incarceration rate is in drastic need of reform. Educational standards are falling and likely to fall further as Republicans seek to reduce college attendance. Health cover, for all but the wealthy or the lucky, is unaffordable. Its drug trade is the direct cause of the gang mayhem in Mexico. Wages are below the poverty line in many sectors. Its gross inequality of wealth and opportunity distinguish it from other developed nations. For generations it has harboured an ever growing third world nation within its borders and without vastly improved governance, that will be its future.

With all the meanderings of this debate I remain convinced that Trump is being treated badly, and that conservative principles beat socialism hands down.
It's a no brainer.
....and something about dumb bullies brings out the best in me I suppose.