Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

dimitrios10's picture
dimitrios10 started the topic in Tuesday, 29 May 2018 at 5:10pm

I am curious if you guys like DonaldTrump, or do you hate him?

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Sunday, 11 Nov 2018 at 1:01pm

oh blobby , really ?
The Progressive Left's project of societal reinvention is having the effect of hollowing out the political centre ....their response is to blame or attack those who oppose them

To try and compare Germany's culture to the USA's ,big stretch one is a multicultural society , and the other is not....can you work out which one is which?

and please explain what you think hollowing out the political center is?

x

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 11 Nov 2018 at 5:43pm

flap flap flap

CryptoKnight's picture
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CryptoKnight commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 8:05am

Yes, flap, flap, flap, but as long as its IMHO flapping!!! Or the flapping of oh so fickle fingers!!! Or the flappin' of fawning fingers!!! Its justa good ol' lurvin'!!! IMHO... honest!!!

Like them good 'ol IMHO, boys the good ol' beatin' lives orn!!!

Honest?

http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Never-Caught/Erica-Armstrong-Dunba...

http://www.gimletmedia.com/uncivil/the-fugitive#episode-player

Sure it ain't joe and slats going hard and deep but... second by second even... but!!! It aint gushing and fawning over wax jobs!!! Maybe it can't match the sheer tonnage of IMHO output... honest... but!!! And it aint no fickle fucking fingers!!! Its a different kind of ship jumping.

There's real good news. Just a snippet. The pieces of the puzzle are moving. Really moving.

Not at all like our lil' red miss's!!!And all them lyfe expeeryunsors!!! Behind them scenes!!!!

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jun/11/naomi-klein-donald-trump-n...

There is light.

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 10:20am

PragerU is awesome.
Although it may be uncomfortable, Im confidant that most indoctrinated progressives that want to escape the bubble and understand conservative principles, and are brave enough expose their minds to a reasonable amount of PragerU's perfectly rational content, are sure to balance their bent thinking to some degree.
Unfortunately the free speech censors at Google/YouTube don't want you to hear the truth.

"Right now, Big Tech giants like YouTube are trying to stop us from reaching young people with our content, claiming our educational videos are “inappropriate” or even at times "dangerous.”

For more than two years, YouTube has continued to restrict access to more and more of our videos - simply because they present a conservative point of view. There are currently over 80 PragerU videos that are restricted, making it difficult for many young people to access our videos. We have filed a lawsuit against Youtube/Google, and we need you to help us fight back!

We need your help to spread public awareness about online censorship and to continue to reach the next generation with our our videos that promote American values. At PragerU, we are reaching millions of Americans online through social media, and hearts and minds are changing.

There is no excuse for Google/YouTube to censor and restrict any PragerU videos, which are produced with the sole intent of educating people of all ages about America's founding values. We need your help to tell YouTube that their restriction of our videos is wrong."

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 10:37am

"PragerU is awesome"

Yea righto Blob, whatever you reckon.

"But Prager U is not a university. It’s a nexus for hard-line conservative messaging that closes minds and builds upon tribal identities, while accusing political opponents of doing the same. It’s a vicious cycle that can put violently extreme ideologies just an autoplay away."

https://www.danfromtheinter.net/prager/

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 11:02am

The funding for institutions ready to prostitute themselves into justifying policies that lead to greater corporate profits never dries up. PragerU? Haha ha ha. You would have to be kidding. The best laugh I have had on the forums for a long time!

Laurie McGinness

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 5:29pm

Macron patted Trump on his thigh, then let his hand rest there a moment. What kind of gesture was that?
Seriously.

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 5:51pm

So are you alluding to Don was sexually molested pb? im contacting the metoooooo movement,fuk this enough is enough....poor Don .........molested by a frog!

But did look sus eh

simba

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Monday, 12 Nov 2018 at 6:12pm

No. I'd call it a conciliatory gesture, something you'd do to a child who is in a bit of a sulk because he's not the centre of attention on somebody else's big day.

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 8:29am

Peterb, the dynamic of Macron and Trump is incredible. Macron seems to have an acute awareness of how to engage with Trump, and accommodate him personally. I have great admiration for the leadership Macron has taken.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 8:33am

Macron is a plant , stooge , shill.

He’s the Tony Blair of France.

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 10:06am

Blob,
I agree that "The Progressive Left's project of societal reinvention is having the effect of hollowing out the political centre ....their response is to blame or attack those who oppose them"

What do you think the most useful right wing 'reaction' to the issue you have raised would be? What would be a better response from the left rather than blaming or attacking its opposers?

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 10:08am

Blowin,
Actually I don't know much about his internal policy. What makes you think that he's not of value?

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 10:34am

Macron is the stoogiest of stooges. What makes him so stoogey is the fact he doesn't even know he's a stooge. He thinks he's significant.

The french were sold macron as an alternative, when really he's more of the same, so much same same.

The only reason he got in is because the french are too cool to vote for their very own pauline hanson...even though many would've wanted to...

Next time....watch out!

Macron is one big arse disappointment for many french

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 10:37am

"..I agree that "The Progressive Left's project of societal reinvention is having the effect of hollowing out the political centre ....their response is to blame or attack those who oppose them"

Pretty hard not to agree. It's pretty much a fact...if there's such a thing anymore.

Obviously there isn't to the usual denialsts...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 10:56am

Lament (for DT)

In limousines the undead cruise
With mobile phones and polished shoes
Haggling over every price,
Indulging every senseless vice
Gluttony, wrath, sloth and greed,
Provide them with their every need,
Lust and envy, a choice of bride,
Which leaves the ruling role to pride,
With iron hands weak heads it rules,
This never failing vice of fools,
Pride drives out feeling from their hearts,
So it may dwell in other parts,
Between their legs or in their guts,
Within their bowels or in their nuts,
With bellies full and balls aglow
With souls that shrink as egos grow
These pompous braying donkey brains,
These stinking shits, these human stains,
Bring their evil into flower,
Swap life itself for finite power,
But make no claim upon each other,
Dead hearts know they need a brother,
Even justice sells itself to pride,
To turn its verdict to their side,
A bankrupt who has paid his price,
In justice can indulge his vice,
Though each dollar bought a cent,
The debt discharged, why repent?
But life itself has greater themes,
Than their conniving little schemes
For after all they are but fools,
To know not greater justice rules,
A life of pride a dead heart earns,
For justice dictates true returns,
And who would argue peace and health,
Could be exceeded by their wealth,
Even though it be ill-gotten,
All can see the deal is rotten,
The price they paid is far too high,
For pride deludes the greedy eye,
So though they mix with heads of state,
Enjoy the trappings of the great,
Collect fresh beauty for their bed,
Envy not the walking dead.

Laurie McGinness

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 2:37pm

Did you write that, Blind Boy? Impressive.

Dunno if it's up to this standard though...

Roses are red
Violets are blue
You call it shit
I call it poo

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 6:10pm

Trump's poetry corner!

And now...

An Ode to PM ProMo

(big props to Pig Iron Bob)

"I did but see him passing by and yet I...Oi, who stole my pie??"

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 3:33pm

Skypan to be honest I got nothing of value from your replies. If you are interested in elaborating i'd be willing to listen

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 5:04pm

and I don't mean to be dismissive. I think you have a case to make but I don't think you did so with either reply.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

Optimist's picture
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Optimist commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 5:16pm

Scotty's hungry....he's got a death grip on that pie.

sypkan's picture
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sypkan commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 5:27pm

Sorry yocal. I was letting out a rant more so than replying.

But I'm happy to elaborate.

Macron materialised from nowhere just after the trump/brexit thing. He appeared as a non establishment figure to challenge the established parties, yet seemingly supported by an establishment like apparatus.

Basically leading up to the french election the major parties were floundering in the polls. On the other hand, France's Pauline Hanson (marine le pen) was killing it in the polls, and people freaked out. Hence matareialising Macron to soak up some protest vote.

Dissent was so bad the major parties both failed, Marine le Pen did alright, and Macron got the gig. Many have suggested Macron was a ring in, a kind of insurance policy from the powers that be.

Doesn't seem that unbelievable when you look at his actions. He came in all radical with his cabinet and stuff but has fallen into line pretty quick with everything else since.

The french really are too cool to vote for Pauline Hanson, even if their version is more sophisticated and a bit better looking. The fact their version is more sophisticated than ours probably also makes her a bit more racist too sadly.

But the french were willing to go there, which is more a reflection of how fucked things are rather than anything else.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Tuesday, 13 Nov 2018 at 6:05pm

Just the fact that virtually every mention of Macron was accompanied by the word centrist should have set alarm bells ringing, laying it on too thick and all that.

And the reality, according to some, is more like this:

"Macron is a pound-shop Margaret Thatcher, redistributing wealth to those with too much of it, while assaulting workers’ rights and France’s hard-won social model. His tax changes have gifted the hundred wealthiest households more than half a million euros a year: the top 1% captured 44% of his new tax breaks.

For the less affluent, it’s a different story. This former investment banker has slashed housing benefit, and hiked taxes on pensioners – in a country where the average monthly pension is just €1,300 (£1,100)."

And then there's his agenda of privatisation...

A stooge, a neolib shill indeed.

And who could've believed that the press would go along with ramming home the "centrist" propaganda? Well, I'm just shocked!

Still reckon the press is fully left Blowin?

And once again, "if the left fails to provide an inspiring, coherent alternative, it will be the radical right that will [continue to] triumph.'

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/19/emmanuel-macron-mo...

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 9:07am

pretty funny to read Sypkan's ..."more of the same with Macron" , which is solcialism.

then read AM's ...He's not a centrist , but a right wing nationalist.....haha..or was that Trump?

You both have it wrong , Macron is trying to clean up an old Socialist System and try and balance the books ...as heWorld has changed and so have the economies.

Reading articles written by Anglo Saxons on the French has always been a bit of a chuckle , as there is a lot of animosity between the un-UK , and France because Brexit is delivering a big part of their economy to the French , as Companies abandon London for Paris , so the ol' Pommy/Frog wars have been reignited and the bias!

History shows when the world was going nationalistic/right , France actually took a risk and voted left as Marie Le Pen is a right wing extremeist like her ol ' man Jean -Marie.....

Time will tell if he can dismantle the old Socialist formula , and come up with a centrist formula....

I had to laugh when , "For the less affluent, it’s a different story. This former investment banker has slashed housing benefit, and hiked taxes on pensioners – in a country where the average monthly pension is just €1,300 (£1,100).".....ah do you know how much "ONLY" 1300 Euros is a month in Aud.....about $500 pw , double Australias, plus free medical / Pharmacy , all universities are free , medical means everybody has the right to the best medical care available....the French are world class whingers about how fucked their country is but they are miles ahead of us and the USA when it comes to looking after all the people , not just certain segments of society!

x

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 9:12am

gee Blowin you really know how to insult a frenchman...compare him to a pommy!!

x

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 9:34am

Interesting shark man, one minute you say that the French are miles ahead in looking after their people, the next you say you can't wait for Macron to fix a broken socialist system.

His economics are clearly right wing.

And I don't think I ever called Macron a nationalist - just because you are a neolib doesn't mean you're a nationalist.

I think it's you who's got it wrong.

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:16pm

Sharkman I tend to agree with you that people are too quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
so:
AndyM, because Macron is trying to reduce the reach of the 'broken socialist system' he is clearly right of the centre. How so?

What element of the left view is too extreme, which necessitates roughly 50% proportion of society to side with right wing ideals? It can't be stupidity because then all the people on the right wing side of history would have been wiped out.

What is the utility of say - borders?
What is the utility of - preventing equality of outcome vs promoting equality of opportunity?

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 12:46pm

What is the utility of borders ?

You’re kidding , right ?

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:18pm

Also to add as a side note,
I find this particular situation interesting. In the Howard era, I was more focused on the global impact of his agenda, not the small scale country economics. I was against intervention in afghanistan, fair treatment of asylum seekers, global warming. None of that was being addressed by Howard in my eyes.

With Trump, I am focused on the global impact of his agenda, not local economic:
Authoritarianism, freedom of speech, closing of borders, nationalism. All of this is being tested by Trump aggressively.

With Macron, this man is making a clear stand against Authoritarianism, freedom of speech, closing of borders, nationalism all on a global scale with what appears to me as a well defined position of centrality. Driving the global push toward climate action.

Then he also wears the hat of managing his local population. The local population is moving right at an ever increasing pace. The influx of Africans (largely islamic) across the strait has clearly put his local population off balance. So he NEEDS to apply some conservatism at home. And now he's facing criticism of being right wing.

Doesn't compute to me when I look at the whole of the man's agenda. How many should he close the borders to to keep his people safe? How many people want equality of outcome and who is going to determine the rations? macron is stepping neatly between Tyranny on either side in my opinion.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

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yocal commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 12:56pm

Tell me Blowin,
It is a very crucial question to discuss... I think there are people who overlook the utility of borders when they are overwhelmed by the tragedy that exists in the world.

Questions for open border policy people:
-Why do we have them in the first place?
-What are we trying to protect?
-What is at risk and will it really always be there?
-What about the perception of safety within the borders, how critical is that perception to a fully functioning society within the border?

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:03pm

Yocal, your first assumption there is that Macron is trying to reduce the reach of the 'broken socialist system' -

Huge assumption.

And is implementing clear neolib policies going to fix anything?

Recent worldwide experience shows that it doesn't and it won't.

Therefore, why is he implementing these policies?

The answer to that is pretty easy.

All together now - "Because he's a neolib stooge"

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:16pm

Macron isn’t removing borders , he’s just moving them.

As a globalist and as as stooge of the real powers , he wants to expand their empire, their sphere of influence. So the EU absorbs all those smaller nations and nullifies all those irritating localised idiosyncrasies that go with their sovereignty.

It’ll still be the elites in control, as it was in the individual nation states , but now they won’t have to worry about those pesky elections or local jurisdictions. And they will control the lot , not just their own fiefdom.

Why do you think the EU is forming its own army if it’s about peace and uniting mankind ?

People talk dribble about Trump wanting to derail democracy and his aspirations of authoritarian rule whilst the EU is already doing it.

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:17pm

Sorry , Yocal.

I thought you were pro open borders.

My mistake.

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:14pm

"Yocal, your first assumption there is that Macron is trying to reduce the reach of the 'broken socialist system' -

Huge assumption."

yes I am assuming this, I don't know his intentions, but he seems to be moving away from Socialism and on general merits socialism is proven to be useful. Why is he moving away? All I can tell is that he is trying to change something in the socialist context, to reduce its reach. I believe he has good intentions but nobody knows if the outcome is better. Tall order to assume that all of his policy is tried and didn't work for France.

You are also assuming that he is a stooge to higher powers with no essential goodness or decency in his actions. I am not sure why you think this is a better conclusion to draw based on assumptions.

"And is implementing clear neolib policies going to fix anything?"
Good question, which neolib policies are you suggesting were tried and have since proven to have failed?
"
Recent worldwide experience shows that it doesn't and it won't.

Therefore, why is he implementing these policies?

The answer to that is pretty easy.

All together now - "Because he's a neolib stooge"
"
I think its possibly because they (global western politicians) got it wrong in one or two fundamental ways that have brought it down. So what i'm hearing is that your solution is to throw it all out and try on something alternative from the left (or right) of the natural centre of society. The different take I have on the situation is that there is a necessity to satisfy needs on both sides of political society or it ultimately fails, and therefore reworking a strategy that honors some principles that seem to be acceptable to both sides is the apriori structure, and most stable. But it appears we have gotten some aspects of this terribly wrong. Some parts were good, some bad and I need to orient myself to be open to both sides of the spectrum to understand the constant paradoxes we face in society, such as borders and distribution of wealth.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:45pm

AndyM..."Interesting shark man, one minute you say that the French are miles ahead in looking after their people, the next you say you can't wait for Macron to fix a broken socialist system.
His economics are clearly right wing."

I think you have to understand where and how radical the socialism was , and how the world has changed especially economically for the French.

Once upon a time , you had a job for life , as a Boss you could not fire workers......the boss had to pay 62% loadings on his workers salary ....so if you earnt $100K, boss pays $62K ........if you earn't $1m , boss pays $620K......if you worked seasonally ie 6 mths a year , you would receive 90% of your salary as the dole for the next 6 mths ........etc, all good if you can pay for it , which today there needs to be a balancing of the books a countries cannot just keep borrowing money as per the USA .

So Macron is trying to balance the books , which has pissed a lot of French off , as they want their permanent old lifestyle to continue , but it cannot continue !

To say Macron has a right wing economic program is just false news!

x

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 1:58pm

blowin..."Why do you think the EU is forming its own army if it’s about peace and uniting mankind ?

People talk dribble about Trump wanting to derail democracy and his aspirations of authoritarian rule whilst the EU is already doing it. "

The talk about having their own European army , is simply because they Euros don't trust the USA/Trump anymore , as Trump continually just makes shit up about how Europe must pay for their defence , bags NATO , and as we know Trump has man crush on Putin/Russia....

Trump has already derailed democracy in the USA thats why he is being investigated in the USA , not sure how you can stretch EU as being anti-democracy , and Trumpy is Pro democracy , even when he comes out and says he is a Nationalist?

x

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:19pm

You think democracy and nationalism are exclusive , Sharkman ?

You think that France isn’t nationalistic .....Rainbow warrior anyone ?

You think that the concept of a EU army has only arisen a year ago when Trump ( rightly ) savaged the EU for not paying their way in NATO ?

You think that after literally saving France from German invasion TWICE in the last hundred years that France has more to fear from the US ?

Even though the USA was way more , nationalistic, isolationist and protectionist when it saved France from Germany the last two times , you think that’s why Macron chose now - when his polls are bottomed out - to attack a popular target for his nationalistic, isolationist and protectionist stance. Even though the EU protects the fuck out of every industry it has , thus Britain facing shocks due to leaving the EU ?

You think Trump’s “ man crush “ on Putin is a threat even though the world is literally at its least likely point of a US/ Russian nuclear war in 70 years ?

Remember the doomsday clock those fucktards dragged out of storage for theatrical effect last year ? Yeah , that was unsubstantiated bullshit then and even more so now. The leaders of two rival superpowers getting along is a GOOD thing. Fuck knows how someone has convinced you otherwise .

But you’ve got nothing bad to say about the French President being so recklessly provocative as to declare an unrivalled historic ally a militaristic threat based on nothing more than political opportunism or an utterly minor trade dispute ?

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:20pm

Remember comrades, Blow In doesn't know what 'nationalism' is/refers to/means. Well, he knows about as much as Trump does.

Just sayin'.

Carry on.

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Blowin commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:30pm
AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:38pm

Sharkman, I would suggest that France's social democracy looks "radical" only in comparison to a world-wide lurch to the right.
I'd also have a stab that Australia in the early 70's didn't look dissimilar to France now, it's just that Australia was more easily steamrolled by changing policy (yes that's a euphemism).

And I'm sorry, Macron's policies are (here we go again), neoliberal and so, by definition, right wing.

There's plenty of evidence out there put forward by very learned people and to be frank, it's way, way more compelling than your claim of *retch* false news.

Unless you can convince me otherwise shark man, it's pretty clear who's being fooled by fake news and embarrassing claims of centrism, or fighting the reds under the bed, or whatever.

https://theconversation.com/macrons-mercenaries-police-violence-and-neol...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/19/emmanuel-macron-mo...

https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/emmanuel-macron-contradictions-n...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/23/macrons-centrism-is-coming-apart-at...

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AndyM commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:41pm

From your link Blowin:

"But the definition of nationalism also includes “exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.
This exclusionary aspect is not shared by patriotism."

Again Blowin, ya gots to be careful with nationalism.

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:46pm

I missed the part where Macron described the US as a threat. I don't deny he could have said it given the fragility at the moment, and multiple narratives,

but I heard something along the lines of:
"We can't trust the US to protect our interests any longer"

That reads more simply to me as a recognition of the current landscape: Trump's position on reducing the reach of the US matched with Europe having a serious need to look after its own defense capability given the resultant decline of NATO?

What I (at least thought I) liked about Macron's global position was 1) acceptance of Trump's withdrawal, 2) acknowlegement of a gap that needs to be filled 3) reaffirming that in general he doesn't believe in nationalism due to its risk of turning catastrophic, and reaffirming that he is still committed to international diplomacy while accepting the US departure as the choice and freedom of the US.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:49pm

ah tell me what you really think haha....

Seems like you are stuck in a time warp , a lot of what you say is based on past events , and the world has moved on......just like Macron is trying to do now....

ah the old we helped France in 2 world wars....not Europe and the UK?

The USA made a fortune and became the World leader , all planned by their Govt?

Yeah great that Putin talks to Trump , he should ,he got him into power , and Russia is a world class democracy , so what's to worry ?

Are you aware that the French Financed the USA's war of Independence against the Poms and even gave them the Statue of Liberty to celebrate?

As for what was said between Macron and Trump , the French are saying that Macron never mentioned the USA as an enemy , but it suited Trump to put it in that context because then he can go into rant mode , actually the French see Don as a bit of a joke that will pass quickly!

x

Island Bay's picture
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Island Bay commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:49pm

Re the "threat from the US", it was a misquote. Macron only talked about protecting France from cyber attacks from other nations, incl US.

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 2:55pm

blowin...."Get an education, cobber.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/patriotism-vs-nationalism.... so you agree that there is a difference between Patriotism and Nationalism...as my reading of what you posted clearly states " There are still obvious areas of overlap: we define patriotism as “love for or devotion to one’s country” and nationalism in part as “loyalty and devotion to a nation.” But the definition of nationalism also includes “exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.” This exclusionary aspect is not shared by patriotism."

That is my understanding of Nationalism , what Trump has described himself as and that's why Macron said that Nationalism is the enemy of patriotism.....very clear!
Thank you for the link!

x

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sharkman commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 3:12pm

AndyM , yeah all a bit airy fairy......read some of your links , and loved this conclusion..."Even in the event of France’s economic recovery, Macronism may generate too many losers and too many visibly wealthy winners for it to succeed. Macron’s successor is unlikely to belong to the weak and divided left. But if such a candidate can unite neoconservatives and the far right, that will be the last nail in the coffin of progressive neoliberalism." ...so its all about balancing the books!

x

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 3:25pm

Airy fairy?
Looks like you don't like either facts or definitions.

And it looks like you're arguing against yourself, talking about the policies generating too many poor losers and too many wealthy winners - i.e. the growing divide between the haves and the have-nots.

No argument that the left is weak and divided.

Haha, Sharkman, provide evidence that Macron wants to balance the books!

"The budget cuts will apply to government expenditure on the public health care system, housing benefits and transport. What’s more, it will freeze major infrastructure projects and slash nearly 1,600 civil service jobs."

Cutting taxes for the rich and slashing public spending is the same old shit. It isn't about balancing the books (they could do this if they wanted) it's about "screw the plebs and further entrench the elites."

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Wednesday, 14 Nov 2018 at 11:28pm

In 1939 the USA was more inward looking than it is now. More protectionist , nationalistic and isolationist than in any Anti Trump dystopian fantasy.

And it still came to the rescue of France , England , Australia and every other nation threatened by the expansionistic movement of the fascist triumvirate.

The USA rescued the rest of the world through self interest. It was in the best interests of America for the world’s status quo to remain and so they defended it at great expense and also at great profit. It’s also in the USA’s best interest for the current status quo to remain. (This is a reference to the future threat that China may prove to our sovereignty and to the rules based order the world currently proceeds under.)

Trump is honest. I appreciate his direct communication.He says that he will put the USA first. The USA was ALWAYS going to come first, irrespective of who the President was at the time.

Self interest ( nationalism )is an irrefutable fact of each and every seperate nation and if you honestly expected otherwise, well....you’re a fucking idiot.

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factotum commented Thursday, 15 Nov 2018 at 1:05am
sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Thursday, 15 Nov 2018 at 7:37am

AndyM, do you understand how left the French were with Hollande?

75 % tax on the rich , 45% for the plebs as you call them, so Macron is trying to bring a balance back , as a lot of rich people ( some my friends) just changed residency to anther country.
The French expect excellent social services and payments for their taxes read ..
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2013/09/24/why-do-the-f...
Any and all countries try to bring down there budget deificit , except the USA , which under Trump he just racked up another $2.5 trillion of debt , in an over heating economy , Macron is trying to bring the balance back by changing the Tax code there , as the French realize that they cannot continue just racking up debt and at the same time services are getting worse...but relative to Australia and the USA they are still light years ahead.
France has always paid less wages , so how would you describe Trump.....tax cuts for the rich , spend huge on Infrastructure , try and dismantle Obamacare...now there's a real pleb screwer and working for the elites..!!

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