Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?

dimitrios10's picture
dimitrios10 started the topic in Tuesday, 29 May 2018 at 5:10pm

I am curious if you guys like DonaldTrump, or do you hate him?

GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley's picture
GuySmiley commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 11:31am

Blowin says "If Trump succeeds in reintroducing a manufacturing base to the USA that would be an incredible boost for national finances ..... ".

He also says "Now you can answer Blob’s question, Guy"

Blob's question was premised on "Since austerity is never popular and tax increases don't grow the economy how do the Swelleft economists propose reducing debt?."

Blowin's "growing the economy" statement is straight out of the neo-liberal text book that always supports tax cuts to business i.e. the trickle down. FFS must we go back there, are you wilfully stupid or on a massive piss take today, just give the readers just one example anywhere in the world where the trickle down has worked. Good luck with that because the business council of au couldn't when asked.

Blob, voters have accepted austerity when its explained to them by credible political leaders so long as they see it as a balanced deal for them and the country. The word here is credible and Abbott was never that, the illegitimate bastard son of au democracy. "Tax increases don't grow the economy" ahhh, one of Abbott/Hockey's favourite statements, an article of religious like faith for the neo-liberal. Again a throw away line used to sucker the masses. Evidence? please do provide.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 11:51am

I’ve heard of the Panama papers .

But why do you always equate the extreme end of wealth with people that work hard ?

As for your quote about child care workers and aged care workers , mate you’ve become a parody. Read my post about the Swellnet definitions.

All low income = well intentioned, caring souls.

All high incomes = panama paper , high rolling whales .

As for speculation driving up house prices without generating demand for goods and services ...what the fuck do you think has created the unprecedented construction boom in Sydney and it’s massive use of goods and services. It’s called supply and demand.

And you’re quote about the miner being up for a tax deduction....absolute, unfounded bullshit. Where do you get this stuff ? Of course corporations should be paying their share but someone like you will NEVER concede to a person on $250K / yr getting a tax break. Because you’re driven by a storybook class envy ideology that can’t see nuance in income . To you It’s a binary Rich scum vs poor victim world.

You know how I know this ?

Because I made this exact same suggestion a few weeks ago and you were up in arms that someone making decent money might get away with only a total arse raping by the ATO rather than pay a maximum amount of tax. So they’re still paying an absolute fuckload of tax , but you want no limit whatsoever on what they should pay. Even though they’re paying fuckloads more than you pay yourself ....sweet Jesus.

As for inequality....you think that a miner paying slightly less tax - but still a fuckload - so they have more income to spread around their community is a bad thing ?

Miner earns big dollars working their arse off. Pays shit load of tax. Spends the rest in his local community and you’re talking Panama papers.....For fucks sake.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 11:53am

Fun factoid:

Apart from the attendant baldness, too much forelock-tugging really damages the prefrontal cortex.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 11:55am

Just sit on the sidelines and be snide , Arborio.

factotum's picture
factotum's picture
factotum commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 12:01pm

No probs, dim sim.

yocal's picture
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yocal commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 12:03pm

Guy Smiley "Good luck with that because the business council of au couldn't when asked." I'm keen to read the statement from the BC of AU if you have a link? I'm wondering whether we are getting close to having undisputed empirical evidence on the ratio of welfare in a country to its degree of long-term success across a number of social metrics. There are so many factors that can influence a country's long-term success, but surely there's a bell curve or two in there!

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 12:08pm

Kristina Kenneally asked the BC of A that question twice and both times they've been unable to answer.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 1:29pm
sharkman's picture
sharkman's picture
sharkman commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 1:46pm

Blowin...we all pay tax , your statement is incorrect which means your opinion is Flawed because,"Except low income groups pay NO tax whatsoever." is just not true !!!

how do you avoid GST on Goods , or sales tax in the USA , or VAT in the UK , or TVA in France ...all consumers pay tax!

x

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 1:49pm

Zero NET tax contributions.

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 4:53pm

The Guardian Article is good but didn't provide a counter-argument that would have shown proof to the common counter argument ie: "increases in corporate tax rates don't harm the economy."

And I am skeptical not from personal experience, only because I don't want to fool myself into a dogma without all the facts.

From my experience, my US company committed the benefits of the "trump tax cuts" to go toward employee benefits. I am proud to say that I am confident that my company has a conscience for the most part.

Then Q3 earnings came in and the same old pressure to provide efficiencies came into the corporate messaging. I don't know where those efficiencies will come from, but I know that that is an eternal question for a company in a competitive marketplace, especially one on the stock exchange, and in order to be competitive in any global industry the output per person in terms of cost-benefit must be relative to the market. When it isn't, the jobs go to India (in my Industry).

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 5:11pm

The argument to reduce corporate taxes is a race to the bottom and why tax havens flourish even in odd places like Delaware and the City of London. It is also why the US will never legislate to reduce or abolish tax avoidance because to do so would to harm the biggest (US owned) multi-national companies. Its why there needs to be a new way of taxing companies like a turnover tax to stop transfer pricing dead.

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 6:00pm
Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 6:00pm

Blobby
Blobster
Blooby
Blobby boy

Are you being mean Sharkman?

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 6:05pm

Guysmiley

It's juvenile I know.....but I take some pleasure in knowing I've gotten so inside your head.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 6:17pm

Guy don't forget the conveniently located Samoa when it comes to tax havens.

Laurie McGinness

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 8:27pm

Interested in how Sharkman will justify his claim that all consumers pay tax(!).
This is so typical of the deficit in the budget of lefty logic.
If the government gives you ten dollars of other people's tax money, and then takes one dollar back, how are you now the taxpayer?.
Paying tax with other people's money is sorta different to supporting other people with your own.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Friday, 16 Nov 2018 at 8:35pm

More resignations threatened in the UK as the Brexit farce slowly evolves into tragedy.

Laurie McGinness

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 7:40am

Bloob haha...am I being mean by calling you different versions of Herr Blob.....damn no , just playing with words as I think that a lot of what you say here is trolling as I don't take you too serious , even your claims of being some kind of Christian is very amusing......so not mean at all!
However some of that Blackbart stuff is really interesting , the more we see of the right , and how its crumbling day by day , won't be long before the swing to the left will be translated back into Political sphere , already starting Globally ........the great thing about Trump/Abbot/Dutton/Pauline/Jones/Bolt/Joyce etc.....we all get to see the rabidness of the right and the lust for a Nationalistic cultural shut down....we now know who they are , where they work and live , and their view of the future, reminds us all of our humanity and we see a version of democracy that we don't want....just a blip in time!

x

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 7:56am

oh blubber me timbers ......"Interested in how Sharkman will justify his claim that all consumers pay tax(!).
This is so typical of the deficit in the budget of lefty logic.
If the government gives you ten dollars of other people's tax money, and then takes one dollar back, how are you now the taxpayer?.
Paying tax with other people's money is sorta different to supporting other people with your own."

hmm so where and how you get your $'s determines if you pay tax,huh ???

I simply made a statement that all consumers pay tax because we all pay GST , which is a tax!

Blowin stated.......""Except low income groups pay NO tax whatsoever." ......ah GST is Tax, now I am not sure of what you mean when you talk about where the money comes from , has a bearing on if you are a tax...very twisted sister!

x

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 8:15am

BB tragedy for genX and milleniums , I think from memory only about 20% of voters under 30 turned out to vote , and their futures have been ruined by that old chesnut ..Nationalism ....

https://www.theage.com.au/world/europe/it-s-a-disaster-brexit-voters-des...

x

CryptoKnight's picture
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CryptoKnight commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 10:58am

‘Then Q3 earnings came in and the same old pressure to provide efficiencies came into the corporate messaging. I don't know where those efficiencies will come from, but I know that that is an eternal question for a company in a competitive marketplace, especially one on the stock exchange, and in order to be competitive in any global industry the output per person in terms of cost-benefit must be relative to the market. When it isn't, the jobs go to India (in my Industry).’

That’s the psychotic madness of the whole thing. A zany sci-fi where the machine has completely taken over. Unbridled stupidity beyond belief. Humanity reducing itself to the least intelligent species. To mere cogs, bolts, nuts.

It’s not as if the system is a fixed prerequisite of life. Like the need for oxygen, food, water. Like the sun, gravity etc. It is completely of our doing.

Besieged by self created ‘epidemics’ modern man is reducing itself to some sort of cold, heartless, idiotic thing, consumed and ruled by a lust for needless ‘profit’, guzzling and swilling and screeching for ever more bizarre, constant ‘entertainment’, whilst trampling and stumbling over all and sundry waving the biggest gun.

The only brainwave is more guns, bigger guns equals more profit, more constant, more bizarre ‘entertainment’ including more epidemics.

It ‘advances’ daily. A cold, heartless, mindless, robotic, inhuman, unhumane thing. Self designated to the bottom of the rung.

But thankfully it could change in the blink of an eye. Thankfully this not even a speck on a speck, this insignificance in the scheme of things that has been gifted so much, can end in less than a blink of an eye. Human, humanity, humaneness the magnificence that could be so much more than addicted to profit, guns, entertainment and ‘efficiency’. Who knows or cares how many will suffer today. All that unintelligent, non rational, stupid ‘emotional’ stuff.

The ‘show’ must go on. Don’t blink.

AndyM's picture
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AndyM commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 3:20pm

Sharkman, you say you're concerned about young people having their future ruined by nationalism.

Yet you support Macron's policies, which include curbing trade union rights and making it easier to fire workers - labor laws implemented in September now mean that an employer may dismiss an employee for any reason without warning.

Macron is also attacking universal education i.e. for young people looking to enter university.

Do you see any contradictions in your beliefs?

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 4:02pm

Sharkman

Play dumb all you want....if someone earns nothing and is supported by the taxed dollars of others, they are taking not giving.

Your other nutty rant just shows how marginal your views are.

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 4:22pm

A comment heard in the surf from a 19 year old..
"Went to Papua New Guinea and got no waves for a week. Every time I've been to Bali I've got waves"
Yep, the workers are really doing it tough under the Neo liberals...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 4:37pm

Anecdotes! The evidence of idiots.

Laurie McGinness

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 5:20pm

"Anecdotes! The evidence of idiots" ....Pure gold!

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 7:26pm

At least with anecdotes you know it’s happened at least once.

The statistics that some deal in are an amalgam of a set of averaged means ie they’re 99 percent garbage.

You want to find out just how reliable a statistic is ?

Get a statistician to try and predict the future.

An anecdote is an eye witness acount.

Credible enough to convict someone of murder.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 7:42pm

An anecdote is not necessarily an eye witness account Blowin. It can be hearsay and it can also be, and very frequently is, nothing but bullshit. Eyewitness testimony is also incredibly unreliable. Ask three bystanders to a car accident what happened and you are likely to get three different versions.

Laurie McGinness

Blowin's picture
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Blowin commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 9:08pm

And what is a statistic but the misinterpretation of 10000 anecdotes ?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 9:13pm

The Data says ....

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/27/13427990/polls-hillar...

“ Indeed, the major forecasting models give her above a 90 percent chance for winning, except for FiveThirtyEight, which puts her at a mere 84 percent in its polls-only forecast as of midday Thursday.”

BB , less faith in science and more faith in intuition.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Saturday, 17 Nov 2018 at 9:31pm

Blowin a statistic can be based on any sort of data. Rainfall for example. The example you give is survey data which is a prediction based on a relatively small sample so it is not unusual for surveys to produce misleading results. Intuition has its place but maybe you could find an intuitive prediction that Trump would win.

Laurie McGinness

GuySmiley's picture
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GuySmiley commented Sunday, 18 Nov 2018 at 7:32am

For those interested in electoral gerrymanders in the US and why they corrupt democracy

https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/a-cancer-on-democracy-the-...

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Sunday, 18 Nov 2018 at 8:12am

AndyM, no contradiction in my beliefs on Nationalism.

Tried to explain to you where the French Economy has come from , and no you can't just fire workers in France without warning , there is a process you have to go thru , quite a long one , but a least you can do it now , before the worker had all the right s and could not be fired even if your Co was going bankrupt , you had to use all of your money /capital till nothing was left to pay the workers.....I have had quite a few business's in France so have first hand knowledge on this subject.
As for attacking education not sure what you mean , but up until now you could just about be a professional student ......how do you think Free University gets paid for , like I said it's all relative to past policies that are not working , just cleaning up the books!
I think it's pretty obvious now what Macron said is true....Nationalism is the enemy of Patriotism!

x

sharkman's picture
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sharkman commented Sunday, 18 Nov 2018 at 8:29am

Oh c'mon Blooper , there you go again , are you saying that a percentage of the 6% of unemployed are parasites living off us tax paying wombats , and don't pay tax...hahahaha....struggling now to back up your satanic nationalist ideals , by picking on the most marginalized people in our society......

I think you greatest post yet....you heard a 19 yr old talking about PNG Vs Bali and draw some sort of conclusion ..." wow look how well he's living ...might be a miner , could be son a rich family , maybe one of his family works in the travel industry , so tickets are supa cheap...but oh no , Herr Blob sees proof of Nationalism at work......hahaha...now there is a nutty rant coupled with your tax beliefs and the unemployed and/or disabled...

You are a funny man Herr Blob , feels like you are from some sort of cult , using and abusing Christian values , where everyone who is not a believer , gets stereo typed by you as inferior ...so being a white Nationalist is the cult....are you a leader or a pawn?

x

Ralph's picture
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Ralph commented Sunday, 18 Nov 2018 at 9:58am

Generally I don't read any articles written by politicians irrespective of which news outlet is publishing them. Such articles are usually just party political and therefore not reliable.

I'm also sceptical of the Business Council of Australia. Their idea of tax reform is for other people to pay more tax so that business can receive a tax cut.

Under Australia's company tax imputation system it is non resident shareholders that would receive the benefit of company tax cuts. In theory this should make Australia a more attractive jurisdiction in which to invest leading to more foreign investment leading to more jobs leading to more tax revenue etc. (in theory).

IMO the government should have eliminated multinational tax evasion first and only then make the case to lower the company tax rate.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Sunday, 18 Nov 2018 at 12:53pm

The right at their most transparent. "I want to bring everything crashing down and destroy all today's establishment". Steve Bannon . Translation. Fuck the plebs we're building a libertarian utopia where the only right will be the right to own property. You can thank Charles Koch, billionaire, environmental vandal and funder of virtually every right wing think tank, for that rare bit of honesty.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/06/lenin-white-house-...

Laurie McGinness

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 8:38am

Destroying the 'establishment' = [email protected] the plebs huh?

180 degrees wrong again.

The establishment he is talking about is the Washington Hollywood swamp.....and plebs are average Tea Party patriots.

As for libertarian Utopias....they have a slightly better record than leftist attempts.

40 years later the Swelleft believers are still drinking the Koolaid.

"Another woman exclaims, “It’s been a pleasure walking with all of you in this revolutionary struggle. No other way I would rather go than to give my life for Socialism, Communism, and I thank Dad very, very much.”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/18/daniel-flynn-jonestown-mas...

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 9:20am

...as for anecdotes

That one was fresh....and true.....and it made a point that was safely ignored in favour of empty Swelleft sneering.

Swelleft has said that the workers are getting poorer as the 1% get richer.

Fact not gossip: capitalism has made the workers extremely rich.

(So rich that working class kids travel the world in persuit of leisure)

Swelleft's lies are so stupid a simple anecdote is enough to demolish them.

....and If anecdotes are the evidence of idiots, then the empty sneering of anecdotes is of even less value and less intelligence.

A recent anecdote from the socialist utopia of Venezuela...."when we were capitalists we were wealthy, but when we drank the socialist Swelleft Koolaid our wealth and freedom dissapeared and we are now starving."

The left are wrong about everything.

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 10:17am

Blob i liked you and your post at the start and respect your passion, but now this shit has just got real boring.

Do you even surf?

You never post in any other threads?

Is there a way to kill this thread?

I tried just ignoring it hoping it would die...but no luck, i guess i could just comment on heaps of other threads every day and try to bury it.

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 11:21am

.

Laurie McGinness

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 11:16am

Can't delete it, ID, because that would be, you know, left wing censorship etc etc.

Me, I can handle being harangued by an obstinate religious libertarian fundamentalist...because he's just an obstinate religious libertarian fundamentalist. But if he starts carrying on anymore, closing down debate and whatnot, then I'll figure out something.

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 11:21am

How about instead of anecdotes or statistics we can agree to what is closest to the truth. Anyone disagree with these statements?

It is true that some of the rich only care about their livelihood and not the poor. There are many more rich people who have much better intentions.
It is true that some of the poor take advantage of the welfare system and get a free ride. There are many more who have much better intentions, but have not been afforded the capacity to self-support given tragedies outside of their control.

I think of this as something that addresses the needs of both the the left and right mindset: In countries where sufficient welfare is provided, it is less likely that people will turn toward crime.

In countries where sufficient frameworks for equal opportunity and individual freedoms are upheld (ie: the judiciary system is separated from the lawmakers, less bureaucracy), it is less likely that people of power will be enticed toward corruption.

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

Westofthelake's picture
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Westofthelake commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 11:20am

I'm pretty sure Blob lives (and works) on a farm in Bannonsville (south of Brietbart) on the other side of the planet (or some other planet).

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 11:25am

.

Laurie McGinness

yocal's picture
yocal's picture
yocal commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 11:46am

Blob,
When you say "Swelllefts", do you think of people who legitimately want communism to replace democracy, or people who believe in democracy, but have different views to you regarding key principles of how a democracy can effectively operate ie: welfare and borders? I agree with you that there is an ever-present risk of sliding down a slippery slope to the extremes of the left or right.

Is there a place for welfare in your view and if so, how much welfare is beneficial, where does it become too much?

Go deeper Taylor, go deeper!

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 1:06pm

Well thanks boys

I'm losing any respect I had for your game.

I made an actual point or two.

...was called an idiot

....pointed out who was really talking nonsense

....then I get more various empty ad hominem and return blank fire.

See it from my side....some children like to have a go and then get offended by a comeback.
Toughen up.
At least I'm not a sook.

Indo-dreaming

Thanks for the valuable feedback., but I'll let you in on a little secret....nobody is forcing you to read anything.
For you to make comments and then say everyone should stop because you're over it ....is baffling to me.

Do I surf?
Are you serious?

Stunet

If I'm an obstinate religious libertarian fundamentalist what does that make you?
An obstinate irreligious leftist fundamentalist?
....and being the moderator, its lame to talk matey to your mates then making threats to me while running the game.
If you want to run a forum don't try to have it both ways like a condescending hypocrite.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 1:08pm

I completely disagree with Blob on many things , but I still like his posts.

Blob's picture
Blob's picture
Blob commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 4:47pm

Yocal

What you are saying is generally right....but,
I just reckon the pendulum has swung too far to the "left".
The freedom and wealth we enjoy will not survive the current assault of the "leftists"
Borders and welfare are good examples.
Leftists are calling for open borders, which is effectively the end of the nation state.
A conservative attitude to preserving what is good and works over the repeat of failed experiment is anything but extreme.
We are going into dangerous levels of debt while wasting money on welfare when effective free markets deliver jobs.

I'm repeating myself...

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Monday, 19 Nov 2018 at 1:38pm

"....and being the moderator, its lame to talk matey to your mates then making threats to me while running the game."

I think I run a fair game, but mate, this ain't the ABC, it's a private website, partially supported by subscribers of which you aren't one. If you don't like it, either become a subscriber or take your own advice and don't be a sook. You also have the option to leave.

You've made me many more threats and snide comments to me.