Swellnet and politics

It'll be most interesting if labor do lose. Intersting in a perverse schadenfreude sense.

And most interesting to see if they hold onto the so called rudd rules regarding leadership. Rules that seem at least as hobbling as they are uniting.

@Guy

Im not here to defend Liberals or Dutton.

But the article clearly has holes in it "foot-dragging on settlement of refugees on Manus and Nauru," How so?

PNG and Cambodia are still options to all people on Manus and Nauru but they have turned their noses up on the offers, and about 600 have been resettled in USA"

(BTW. Still does my head in that they gave them the option of rejecting PNG or Cambodia, that clearly shows the system is broke, at that stage they should have been deemed non genuine refugees and deported)

Pretty hard to come up with resettlement options with other countries especially as the deals need to be a two way thing and the countries most likely to deals are countries these people would reject anyway.

Only the rejection of NZ offer could be critiqued, IMHO i think the government should have taken up the offer or even now should take it to help make the numbers on Nauru and Manus look better, otherwise when Labor get in they will take up the offer with NZ and claim it as a win.

Then

"We hear nothing from Dutton on the chaos in our visa system. The backlogs and processing time blowouts are truly extraordinary. These force people to bypass the correct offshore visas and enter as visitors. People arriving on visitor visas and changing their status onshore constituted an astonishing 24 per cent of net migration in 2017-18 – the mark of a visa system out of control."

I like to see some evidence or more detail to this statement.

Not sure what visas they are talking about but if they are talking about refugees/asylum seekers visa's, then there is only two options.

1. Apply offshore and take your ticket in the draw of being resettled, at best it's going to take years under any government or country because its just a numbers game.

2. Arrive as a tourist (if you are lucky enough to be able to qualify) then seek temporary protection as an Asylum seeker.

But they are two very different things anyway, one is permeant resettlement the other is temporary protection.

So in regards to that comment its a bit of a hoax unless they are talking about other types of visa's.

As bridging visas can be used for other things like come here on a tourist visa and then apply for a study visa, in which time you go on a bridging visa waiting for decision to be decided.

Maybe we should completely scrap any kind of onshore Visas or just scrap bridging visas, if the decision for another visa isn't made before your current visa runs out.

As there is about 200,000 people on bridging visas most will be rejected from the visa they are applying for, and know they will, its just a way to extend their stay and in many cases keep working, earning much more than they can back home.

On controlling our unchecked borders the liberals have clearly done a great job.

On controlling our checked boarders there is obviously problems.

I don't know a heap about it, but I've got a feeling this isn't something that has resulted from the government approach but I watched a good docco on this issue the other week, and it seems its an issue that is happening all around the world, people looking for other avenues to get into countries and game systems.

But yeah i guess you could critic Liberals and Dutton for no being on the ball in this area

One thing for certain gaming of the system will continue, any government is going to have to make it tougher for people to get visas of any kind especially temporary type visas like tourist or work visas.

In regard to coal, i think the thing to remember is, we have it and now it's worth money, one day it might not be worth anything.

So do you use it or sell it while its still worth something, or just leave it in the ground?

You could be all moral and say we are not going to sell it to China or India or whoever wants to buy it, but reality is they will just buy it from elsewhere, possibly even being worst quality coal than we can sell, so actually be worse for the planet.

Im talking the QLD black coal, not our shitty Vic brown coal.

Oh please...this i support one party so I've got to view everything through rose coloured glasses is bullshit.

Im not a labor or liberal person, i just tell it how i see it.

Reality is if Labor had just stuck to the same or similar policy as Liberals we wouldn't have had to go through all this Manus and Nauru BS because there wouldn't be anyone to put on Manus or Nauru, almost all people on Manus and Nauru are from the mess Rudd created.

We all know Labor made a complete mess of the situation, trying to claim Labor are great because they started cleaning up the mess they made is just crazy.

Im all for renewables, but we still have useable coal power stations, silly not to keep using them while they have life and while we transition to renewables, and crazy not to sell something that has worth while you can, especially knowing one day it will be worthless.

@Indo, did you note who wrote that article? hardly someone who wouldn't know their shit. Who is more trustworthy here the career public servant or the politician? And then those numbers of arrivals by planes that are increasing each and every year, care to discuss that? You do realise those plane arrivals get to self assess their character test while living and working among us? .......... all the facts @Indo not just the cherry picked ones.

"...Reality is if Labor had just stuck to the same or similar policy as Liberals we wouldn't have had to go through all this Manus and Nauru BS because there wouldn't be anyone to put on Manus or Nauru, almost all people on Manus and Nauru are from the mess Rudd created."

Yep. But I think the worst thing labor did was live in denial for about two years too long whilst the numbers just got worse. They gave us all manner of excuses why the numbers were going through the roof under labor. So many reasons and excuses, day after day in the news, as the situation just got worse and worse everyday. it was hard to watch! Eventually even they admitted they got it wrong (well some of them did, begrudgingly, marginally, admitting they fucked up, about two years too late!)

Then rudd changed the policy for the election. Maybe they changed the policy because they felt the need for stronger borders (not likely!). Or, maybe they changed the policy because their position and excuses just became embarrassing, so so embarrassing. The denial was so delusional and disrespectful their position jusr became untenable.

So yes, the numbers slowed (possibly stopped) following rudd's anouncement, but it was the liberals who cleaned up the mess and showed real strength on the issue. Possibly went too far on the issue, and have remained 'too far' on the issue for most, which is why I have an open mind about what labor have to offer now.

An open mind, but still no confidence whatsoever...

But an open mind...

Very telling that blindboy's graph cuts in at 2011 as indod pointed out. Geez they teach you that trick in first year uni. I believe you call that an agenda to push.

Coal ain't going anywhere real soon. But to commit to the lifespan that the adani mine will have is just dumb., plain dumb. It's sacrilege to destroy that area and facilitate the ongoing related environmental degradation given the way the energy sector is heading.

Remember, no banks would finance the mine because they deemed it basically unviable. Banks don't do that shit due to environmental concerns. They do it because it's a dumb investment. Yet both parties are pushing ahead with it.

You guys can write COALition as many times as you like, but whilst labor support the adani mine they have no more credibility than liberals do on the issue

The liberals 'cleaned up the mess'. Did they?

The way I see it is the mess isn't that people ended up on Nauru. The number of fleeing refugees we housed is pitiful in relation to many other countries.

The mess is the way they were dealt with once there.

And still, what happened to those 'nauru files'. Silence. Individual cases of abuse covered up. Child abuse under our watch. The governments watch. The govt we pay taxes to.

Billions of dollars spent....where's the accountability?

"The liberals 'cleaned up the mess'. Did they?"

Well no, not really.

But they certainly seem to have had some control over the situation. As opposed to labor, who seemed to be either; totally in over their heads, or seriously ideologically challeged by the issue.

"The number of fleeing refugees we housed is pitiful in relation to many other countries."

I agree, we could have, should have, and should be doing, so much more. But in order to do that, we would have to fundamentally change how we do stuff. Which would require a conversation on what and how we are willing to do stuff as a country. This would probably require a good look at the UN convention on refugees, or possibly just adhering to the rules already in place.

It appears advocates and the usual suspects are not willing to have that conversation.

To my mind addressing people’s concerns regarding the UN convention, and dealing with some of the ridiculousness that has developed over recent decades around this issue, is the only way to maintain, or restore, the public license required for us to continue accepting refugees.

Neither of these things are even renotely on the table, so we'll just continue yelling af each other...

To turn a blind eye to the thousands of refugees that arrive here by plane each month, who self assess their character/security test and who are then free to live and work in our community until their case is heard is a mere matter of convenience when the main game in town is to politicise the poor bastards who got here by boat years ago.

"The way I see it is the mess isn't that people ended up on Nauru. The number of fleeing refugees we housed is pitiful in relation to many other countries."

This is a cliché line sprouted by refugee advocates that is misleading..

Australia is actually number one based on population for RESETTLING refugees and number three in the world for resettling refugees.

The USA use to resettle the most refugees but Trump halved the intake in 2017 from 66,000 to 33,000 it had been as high as 90,000 in 2016 (USA pop 330 million)

Canada about 25,000 but has been as high as 45,000 in 2016 (37 million)

Australia about 19,000 about the highest its been. (25 million)

NZ about 1,000 the highest its ever been (almost 5 million)

Now off course you are going to say, what about Iran or Turkey etc, well they don't resettle refugees they only host refuges there is two different ways countries give protection to refugees.

1. Temporary protection: like Turkey, Pakistan, Lebanon, Iran as you will notice these countries are CLOSE to or border countries many refugees flee, the reason refugees flee to these countries is because they are close(many can't afford to flee further) two because their aim in time is to return home, once wars end, political situations change etc.

2. Countries that provided a new life to refugees with permanent resettlement there is 37 different countries that provide this through offshore resettlement programs.

Australia is one of the furthest countries from areas most refugees flee, Middle east, North Africa, if you get out a map and count the countries closer in distance to these areas signed to the refugee convention, there is at least 50 countries closer in distance.

Makes very little sense for us to host large numbers of people for temporary protection, the issues Guy is talking about would only be inflamed even further and then once here when safe to return home, you need to get them deported, which is where you get all other problems arising, visa overstays, appeals, and all kinds of other crap like people seeking legal means to challenge decisions. (meanwhile they go on bridging visas that Guy is talking about)

Our resettlement refugee quota is also misleading when compared to places like Canada because refugees resettled through family reunion visa's are not included in the numbers of refugees resettled while Canada does include that, you can also expect there would also be a number of people who would arrive on special work visa's that would otherwise become asylum seekers or refugees.

For example a doctor from Syria who can get a work visa in Australia is not going to go through the process of becoming an asylum seeker or refugee, when he has the know how to enter Australia by a smarter easier means.

For countries that do need to rebuild once wars finish, this is actually a problem, the cream of the crop has gone elsewhere and started a new life and often don't return to rebuild the country.

BTW. It should be noted as i have before there is two different types of refugees.

1. Those that will never be able to return home a christian in a country like Saudi Arabia or a stateless refugees who doesn't have a home.

2. Refugees that will be able to return home once wars end or optical situations change, the aim of most refugees is to do this.

Our offshore resettlement programs focus on those most in need and refugees that are stateless etc, because its basically a waste when you resettle refugees that can return home but don't, we have all heard the stories of refugees returning home to visit family or holiday (that shit is real, they are not returning to a war zone, the wars ended or become reasonably safe)

Which is basically a wasted resettlement spot, because that starless refugee who missed out on a place is still stateless.

I don't reckon many people think the liberals blocking the malaysia solution was a good idea. It was a dark cynical path to take to try and maintain their leverage on the issue. Geez even tony abbott thinks it was dumb!

However, the gates were well and truly open before the malaysia proposal. The 'problem' was created before the 'solution' funnily enough.

So nah, not gullible. Just objective.

I agree guysmiley, but to turn a blind eye to what got us in this mess in the first place will just worsen the situation (again) and ensure it never goes away.

At the end of the day Australians don't like boat arrivals for a host of reasons. Both sides of politics need to find some balance on the issue that appeals to the majority of Australians. That's democracy!

At the moment the two extremes are the only parts being debated. Good for die hard busy bodies (from both sides) but not good for society. Or the refugees!

@Guy

I doubt any refugees turn up by plane, they are asylum seekers, id expect if they have already been determined a refugee it would register with immigration and they would be denied a tourist visa.

There is not a thousand asylum seekers arriving by plane a month, there is a thousand people arriving on tourist visas who then apply for a temporary protection visa, of which i believe 90-95% are rejected.

These 90-95% are tying to game the system to get on bridging visas, to either holiday longer or in most cases to work, there has even been articles on the prevalence of this my certain groups like Malaysians. (even the media has written articles on this) Im sure they are fighting up things further, i mean even watching border control you can see its not easy to get in, but we can't just deny everyone tourist visas.

Six months to a year here working and they go home and buy a house or a business with the money they have made.

Yeah sure its an issue, that should be dealt with, but its a completely different issue and shouldn't be compared to the boat arrival issue.

As for those true asylum seekers that arrive by plane and asylum seekers/refugees that arrive by boat.

Those that arrive by plane can only get Temporary protection visa's or Special humanitarian visas again temporary, one needs to be reapplied for every 3 years the other every 5 years, if situations have changed (like wars ended political situations change etc) and its deemed safe to return home they are denied the visa and are deported.

BTW. those on temporary protection visas also don't eat into our refugee intake for offshore resettlement programs

Not at all the same as boat arrivals who are after permeant resettlement and eat into our refugee quota if resettled in Australia.

Anyone who doesn't understand the differences between controlled and uncontrolled immigration or thinks uncontrolled migration should be allowed is a total moron.

Uncontrolled migration= Never every going to be realistic under any government and goes against every reason we have official entry points with immigration, customs, quarantine, no control whatsoever to whom or in what numbers, and come with huge risk and the avenue could easily be exploited by criminals for all kinds of things.
Add to that without a passport of papers you have no idea who they are or their history.

Compared too:

Controlled immigration: Where people arrive with a passport, you know who they are and the risk, they clear customs, quarantine, immigration and all other checks, they have a visa which is often very hard to get in the first place, my inlays even had to get a full medical with chest X-rays just to enter Australia as a tourist for a few weeks.

If those on Nauru and Manus arrived in Australia on thirst visas and applied fir a TPI visa, id expect many more would have been rejected and then more rejected when reassessed, there is good reason why the USA has rejected large numbers on Manus and Nauru especially Iran refugees, and even then there is clearly people gaming the system, like this guy who closed to flee Iran because he converted from Islam to Christianity but now religion isn't important to him...if this is the case then its safe to go home yes?

17:20 Dude flees Iran because converts from Islam to Christianity....funny thing is religion isn't now that important and rarely goes to Church

17:45 Dude is cleary busted....Yep this is how you play the system.

BTW. There was also a section in there where refugees from Nauru resettled in USA weren't happy and want to go to Australia instead.

Talking about plane arrivals, on the radio the other day they said there's been a phenomenal increase in the amount of Chinese people claiming asylum.

Genuine claims? Or just worked out that the system is a bit of a joke and rather easy to rort?

Yeh I'm more than happy to talk about plane arrivals. It seems our system is being taken advantage of at every angle.

You can't blame them, but it's time this shit was sorted out

It's indefensible alright, but they do have a choice.

They could check in at any of the 20 countries they pass on the way (like they're supposed to) if the conditions australia provides are so woeful.

But they don't. Why do you think that is?

Serious question

@Blindboy

"You stating things do not make them true Indo."

Hmm, a bit like you expecting a "new era of fair responsible government"

Seriously though, this seems like the definition of insanity.

Apart from political rhetoric, what makes you think that this is going to happen? Given Labor's track record, I just don't understand why you would have any faith.

How much longer do you want to kick the can down the road and play this game?

So they cannot locate a registration site in a foreign country yet they manage to negotiate daily living in many countries, crossing multiple borders, deal with multiple government authorities, organise cars boats and planes etc. etc.?

But they cannot google a registration office?

Laughable blindboy!

You're better than that

@Andy

The more i follow these forums, the more i realise those who are passionate about a political party are just like religious people, they can't look at things with balance and logic.

It's all this political party or religion is right, everything they say and do is correct and right, while that other religion or political party is bad and everything they do is wrong.

@Sypkan

100% not to mention there is embassies of many different countries where they can apply for resettlement in most of the countries they pass, including Indonesia....and its also possibly to apply for resettlement online.

Reality is many actually do, but then realise their chances of being resettled are pretty remote, so if they have the resources to do so they then take things into their own hands and try to by pass the process we have in place.

You can't blame them really for trying, but it would be unfair to others to reward them and it would come at the expense of the offshore resettlement programs that would become defunct.

BTW the cliche line that Blind boy always goes back to about USA in middle east etc.

Ignores the fact that even without USA/Aust involvement the middle east would be a huge source of refugees, possibly even a bigger source as radical forms of islam etc push people out of the country.

Not to mention refugees come from a large number of countries other than the middle east that we don't bomb, be it North African countries, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, etc

BB I was having a dig at your apparent certainty, but anyway...

Your reasons for thinking that Labor are going to move away from the centre-right position they've inhabited for 30 years are based purely on the utterings of their chief spruiker.
History suggests that Labor will make the usual pre-election promises, push through a few minor bits and pieces but rapidly back-peddle from anything substantial - the framework will stay the same, business will continue as usual.

"No doubt they will unveil more policy initiatives once they are in power"

Umm, sure.

I've said it before, you're an ideologue who exists largely in an evidence-free zone.

Faith based.

So open borders it is then...

Problem solved.

We've all been arguing about nothing.

Faith based indeed!

Loves data, statistics, and evidence...

Unless they're inconvenient and contradict the church that is

"a centre-right Labor government would still be a huge improvement over the collection of crypto-fascist fuckwits currently in power'

Difficult to argue with that.

"There is no queue"

Is kind of a bull shit line.

There really is queue's every refugee who has applied to be resettled is waiting, if your waiting you are in a queue.

Its just the selection is not determined in a traditional queue like fashion, from first to last, it's determined more in a lottery style system, like a lucky dip.

And basically you have one lottery with millions of others, and a decent chance your number will never come up.

But if you are lucky enough to have the resources to do so and not get your boat turned back and you get to Manus or Nauru, you get into the golden lottery, where your number is guaranteed to come up.

And then even then when your number comes up you can decide not to take the prize (PNG or Cambodia) and just keep in the draw until a better prize comes up like USA.

"I just sense something different this time."

And I just know for sure that vaccinations cause autism, I can't prove it but I just know it.

To be fair, I think it's reasonably clear that Labor has finally recognised public sentiment but that still doesn't mean that they will make substantive changes or even that their masters will allow it.

I'm hopeful but at the same time we're running out of time and I'm tired of waiting.

@ blindboy

Well thats the reality of the situation like it or not.

But people like you don't want too admit or even think about the other people that are waiting and have been waiting for years and years and many are amongst the most needy, 100% true refugees doing it truely tough.

It's out of sight out of mind, the stories are not heard, no way on earth if face to face with them you would say, sorry you don't deserve a chances of a new life, because you don't have the resources to get to home base.

We are giving priority to these people over here instead, because they are able to get to home base.

.... and still we are exclusively talking about boat arrivals while today jets have touched down in Melbourne and Sydney with tourists who have immediately claimed refugee status. Our boarders are not controlled and to paraphrase the nightwatchman and his filthy home affairs minister "child rapists and murderers" could be walking the streets amongst us. Why aren't all single men arriving by plane processed on Christmas Island or is the self assessed character/security test that robust that there is no need? These are all rhetorical questions to illustrate the hypocrisy of the LNPs dog whistling strictly for political gain each election.

so @Indo, can you please advise me where the UN processing centres in our region are right now where refugees may wait orderly in a mythical queue?

Ive never talked about child rapist or murders or any of that kind of rhetoric, but as you know watching any of those border control shows you will know any convicted criminals especially serious crimes get rejected from entering the country.

If they are not convicted and we have no idea of their past, then what's the difference between a tourist or student or someone on a business visa compared to someone the seeks asylum, they could all be unconvicted criminals.

In regards to processing centres.

Here you can check out where UNHCR offices etc are in SE Asia.
https://www.unhcr.org/539809fc16.pdf

Or Aussie embassies https://dfat.gov.au/about-us/our-locations/missions/Pages/our-embassies-... (or other countries embassy's that resettle refugees)

Or skip all that and apply online https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/what-we-do/refugee-and-humanitarian-prog...

Now how hard was that?

Maybe 2 minutes of googling, much easier than traveling halfway around the world and paying people smugglers thousands of dollars.

Only problem is after applying I've got to wait like everyone else.

I don't want to wait, ive got cash, i demand you process me now.

BTW. if there is no queue then what's the issue?...no need to wait????....Nah sorry doesn't work that way, you wait and there is more than one person waiting, your in a queue of some kind.

I definitely do not agree with letting any old Tom Dick or Harry who claims they are a "refugee" in. I have met some of those who were moved here on "medical" grounds. So with the rent on the three bedroom unit being paid for and all the other allowances including the free medical treatment this is how the conversation progressed. These people are not allowed to work, however It took less than ten minutes for the subject of a "job" to come up and he has been a painter and construction labourer all his life and was keen, but only as a "volunteer" he stressed that "Volunteer" bit a lot. Funny his hands were soft as butter, not the hands of someone who has labored all their life. Only wants to volunteer to paint and labour, riiiight. So we got round to discussing why they left their home country of Iran, "Australia will give us everything so we come here" Interesting response, I expected to hear, my entire family has been persecuted, were chased out of our home and family have been killed etc, etc. So I asked them if they had problems at home, So you were victims of Government persecution? Family disappeared? No. Arrested or targetted? No. Had a job, home, and family still there? "Yes". Was it expensive to get here? "Yes" over forty k USD for all four. Labourer and painter, I did not ask the going rate for a painter in Iran. How did they get here? "Through Europe". Were caught on a boat sent to CI and then to Nauru, did not want to discuss why he was sent to Nauru. Don't know why did not push it, going to save that for another conversation. The wife came into the convo as well, indicated they hoped "never to leave".
These people are not refugees by any stretch in my book but illegals who are trying to work the system. As far as I am concerned, once a medical evac is stabilised to the point where treatment can be conducted at the new facility at CI they should be repatriated there immediately.
The leftist's can not complain internees are being mistreated, look at how many illegals are being detained in Qld in nice apartments and hotels across the state at the taxpayer expense. Whilst I disagree with that "special treatment" it certainly beats the stupidity of Labor and their open border policy that resulted in thousands of deaths by drowning and if they do get back in under Shorten we will be right up to our necks in it.

"Through Europe".?????

Interesting story but I don't get this bit???....Why would a refugee going to Europe be sent to Xmas Island?

@Indo,

I think you misread my last post. You haven't said that as far as I'm aware but the nightwatchman and his ministers are constantly saying it as justification to reopen Xmas Island.

However, it highlights the spectacular hypocrisy of what the Government are saying about medical transfers of those on Manus and Nauru and the so-called plane arrivals who self assess their character and security test. Let me explain further; you can have a "murderer or child rapist" arrive on a plane who hasn't been charged or convicted of those crimes and can answer truthfully no to the charged and conviction questions on their security test!

I make these points solely to further illustrate that all this froth and bubble about medical transfers by the nightwatchman and his ministers is 200% to do with politics. Reactionary dog whistling before an election 101.

....... now, it seems we are down to the definition of a processing centre because the links you provide are administrative offices and yes they may "process" claims but if you were to ask the person in the street what a processing centre looked like it wouldn't be an office with a clerical assistant pushing a pen(cil) behind a desk. It would be a camp with medical facilities, accomodation, kitchens, food distribution and hopefully schools as well as an administrative function. Big difference and I'll stick my neck out and say there are no camps like that in our region processing refugees so there is no queue to wait in or jump over.

Its interesting how the different pollies are good at different stuff. Its a shame they cant put aside their boring factional differences and work together and share their skills. Both sides of Parliament have good points and should be respected for them. Look at Peter Dutton for example, not the sort of guy you really want to hang out with. Even had aspirations of grandeur which was pretty stupid,. But as a guard dog.. Ruff Ruff the guy is gold. Sends all the criminal bikie kiwis home, plus all the ice wielding Lebs and other middle eastern crims. Cracks me up watching him as he froths on it. Maybe, if Australians are dumb enough to vote Shorten in, who actually thinking of it, has no skills that I can recall, he should hire Dutto to mind the gates.

"I don't want to wait, ive got cash, i demand you process me now."

Exactly!

The epitome of arrogance!

The kind of arrogance that only comes with connections and money. And you guys want to reward that?

Blindboy puzzles me no end. always portrays himself to be fighting for the little guy, yet on this issue he sides with the wealthy and connected, makes no fucking sense. No sense at all.

Guysmiley, so your perfectly cool with giving a spot to some rich bastard who hasn't had to wait for anything in his life over some poor soul who's spent 7 years in a camp?

That's some twisted exclusive empathy you're running with there

@sypkan, not sure how you have reached that view of what I think. I'm just trying to highlight the lies and hypocrisy of the government on this issue, playing with people's lives and wasting huge amounts of taxpayers money to win a grubby political point.

You mention people spending 7 years in a camp. Where would that camp be then? not in our region. There is no orderly resettlement program in our region from refugee camp to host country so why are we all persisting with this lie?

No camp no queue.

"All those wealthy and connected people locked up on Nauru and Manus. All those wealthy and connected people who risked their lives in leaky Indinesian fishing boats!"

Yep. No fairyland about it blindboy. They need to be wealthy and connected just to make it to make it to manus and narau. The poor and homeless, the stateless, are in the camps. Surviving on fuck all. Waiting.

"Whee hoo! Nah the wealthy and connected arrive with business visas provided by their COALition mates."

Well yeh, but that's a different issue. Different people. I believe you leaned ones call that a 'strawman argument'.

"You mention people spending 7 years in a camp. Where would that camp be then? not in our region. There is no orderly resettlement program in our region from refugee camp to host country so why are we all persisting with this lie?

No camp no queue."

There's camps all over the place, africa, middle east, dodgy set ups in indo. If we're complicit in middle east wars, then we take people from the camps surrounding Afghanistan and iraq, possibly syria, not that complicated really.

I personally know two dudes that did years in camps, both africans, they made it to oz through some sort of process. It's a dog of a process, and they were both extremely lucky, won the lottery, but they made it.

It does my fuckimg head in that you guys would advocate for wealthy iranians to bypass that process and steal my mates spot. Because that is what they're doing is stealing someone elses spot because they have the power and connections to corrupt the system.

Does my fucking head in!!!

You're dreaming blindboy. You know very well that anyone that can make it to manus or narau is relatively wealthy. And yes connected, be it through being wealthy public service types, business people, or just having family in australia.