Swellnet and politics

Optimist, with respect, you've got your political parties ballsed up. At the most basic level the left is "for the people" - community, workers, society, an even distribution of resources, while the right is pro-individual and pro-business.

If what you wish for is correct then you need to get some WD-40 and fix your rusted on views because the Liberals are taking us in the other direction.

Just heard that ScoMo is on his way to Christmas Island with a bunch of reporters in tow . All for a publicity stunt.

All paid for by us.

And they wonder why punters hold the pollies in contempt.

Doesn’t he have a job to do ? Try running the country instead of propping up your own career you muppet.

Wonder if he'll catch the bus there?

Fingers crossed.

So Optimist , how do you account for this ?

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/australia-falls-into-per-cap...

Comments are relevant.

I don't know guys, I've been involved in community and charity work most of my life. I voted Labor a few times and liked Hawky and Julia Gillard. I voted for Rudd and we all know how that went. I wish Shorten hadn't engineered Julia Gillards demise because I thought she was fair dinkum but with a few bad advisors. Bullshit Bill was the man who always wanted to be king even though he has zero qualifications except union boss. My point though, is regarding the little guy you talk about and the common people supposedly looked after by Labor. In all my years involved in those works I mentioned I never saw a Labor polly involved in anything charitable in my region or any of my associates regions as well. It was always the conservatives who went the extra mile to fund stuff and donate their time for projects that helped the average battler Australian. I wouldn't even know who the Labor guy was until an election then Boom there they are, acting all community minded and all. I think you can have conservative values and a socially aware and helpful society that leaves no one out. You can have strong views on God and country as long as you respect others views as well and are respected by them. Regarding a Utopian Australia....Why not dream...It all starts with a dream doesn't it .Lets have the Libs low taxes and awesome companies that build stuff here. We used to build cars and planes without the subsidies to America. We can build anything china sells us as we taught them how to do everything after Chairman Mao killed all the smart people. Now rich Chinese people want Australian and American stuff and we've stopped making it. Dummies like Shorten think a company with a million dollar turnover is a big business. I had one of those, but the products cost $5000 and I got $400 to install them. That's a $5400 turnover in a day and That adds up quick. I think we have a better chance of helping battlers and getting the infrastructure we need by having a rich country rather than one that is in debt all the time. The politicians eventually get there but need cash to do it and its our job to remind them of the community needs so it can be budgeted for.

Optimist - You keep saying that you want a rich country without debt and it’s just been proven to you that the LNP DO NOT DELIVER this.

So why keep parroting the lie that they do ?

Further, you want a country that's fair when the LNP is trying to tear down every public institution that provides for accountability and justice. 

Bullshit Bill, pot shot Bill who calls the kettle black, would stab his own mother in the back to further himself, or dump his wife for someone else, but still throws stones in glass houses, Muppet Bill

Did I mention that Optimist is deluded?

Left is best.

From blowin's link above I reckon this comment pretty much sums up the fiasco,

So much for the “better economic managers”...
...they open the floodgates to foreign workers to prop up a faltering economy & a mess of their own making.
Now Morrison is Christmas Island trying to sound like Churchill fending off a fictitious invasion by boat people.
Well, this Govt lets au pairs and other undocumented migrants in by jet plane.

Well. It's nearly time we all head to the voting booths and have a delicious choice between Shit Sandwich Scott, and Turd Burger Bill.
I'll go the turd burger thanks. At least the bun is toasted. Nothing worse than a soggy sandwich.

Blindboy , you started this thread saying you valued the different opinions and views of others. As long as they agree with you that is. You embody everything that's bad in this world. You call everyone intolerant but wont tolerate any ones alternate views. you have no interest in differing views. Why not move to Brussels and join the coming 4th reich.

Let's see what else the "better economic managers" have been up to.

Oh look, it's the the Indonesia-Australia Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement.

In it we find that "there are no chapters committing both governments to implement basic labour rights and environmental standards as defined in the United Nations.

Such chapters are increasingly included in trade deals like the Comprehensive Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP-11) encompassing nations including Brunei, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru and Vietnam, and the Australia-EU Free Trade Agreement at present under negotiation.

They acknowledge that trade agreements increase competitive pressures, and are intended to prevent a race to the bottom on labour rights and environmental standards.

The fact they are missing from the Indonesia-Australia agreement shows neither government sees them as a priority."

The deal also gives "special rights to foreign corporations to bypass local courts and sue governments for millions of dollars in extra-national tribunals if they believe a change in law or policy will harm their investment."

Also

"Article 12.9 of the Indonesia-Australia agreement will give Indonesia an additional 4,000 temporary working holiday visas, and a commitment over the next three years to negotiate arrangements for more “contractual service providers”.

Unlike permanent migrants, who have the same rights as other workers, temporary workers and contractual service providers are tied to one employer and can be deported if they lose their jobs, and so are vulnerable to exploitation."

Business as usual for this bunch of crooks masquerading as leaders.

https://theconversation.com/its-more-than-a-free-trade-agreement-but-wha...

Optimist. Do you think Sco Mo should be given 3 years?
Do you want to hand a religious nutter who voted 27 times against the banking commission , who voted against same sex marriage , the keys to the lodge?

Don’t start me on the deluded nobody that is Bill Shorten.

Good to hear from you again , Sheepy.

Here's what happens... The libs when in power treat the economy like a v8 super car and Race it FLAT OUT, but sack the pit crew. They win the first few races, pay off the debts. and everyone goes YAAAAAAY.
They pocket the rest of the money... Then that car starts to play up coz not serviced. Punters start losing money. The libs bail to Bermuda.
Labor is given the car. They find out how badly the libs thrashed it. But they rehire a pit crew, slowly rebuild the car, get a few placing to put food on the table. The visa gets maxed tho , fixing all the damage the libs did.
Just as the car is finished and in mint condition, the libs rock back into town, whining about the visa bill...... The idiots agree......
They give the libs the car back.

Repeat, ad infinitum

Bullshit , Sheepy .

The Libs use it in a ram raid and then labor sells the wreck for parts under the counter for the lowest price offered whilst telling everyone else how much they’ll get in hand for the write off.

Repeat.

From guy smiley on the politics thread

https://www.crikey.com.au/2017/08/09/why-martin-ferguson-turned-on-the-a...

ALP really taking care of the community there.

Howdy, Blowin, BB.
Good to see you're both still fighting the good fight

I see Milo has been banned........ By the coalition!!!!!!!
W....T.....F...... !!!!!!!
Thoughts? ( IMO banning speech, even dangerous offensive speech is bad)

tbb bored swellnetonians with stats & beat the Ant Bully to his backyard shit heap.
By Election Diva Anthony Green should steer the Tabloids to this hot mess.

Time has come Today; tbb will make good on wild claims of mass resignations...
LNP Resignation List of Turnbull/Morrison Govt...(Pack a thermos & a trail mix)

Alexander, John (mp) res/x
Back, Chris (sen)
Banks, Julia (mp)
Bernardi, Cory (sen)
Bishop, Julie (mp)
Brandis, George (sen)
Broad, Andrew (mp)
Bushby, David (sen)
Canavan, Mathew (sen) res/x
Cash, Michaelia (mp)
Ciobo, Steven (mp) 2res
Cormann, Mathias (sen)
Day, Bob (sen) res/x
Dutton, Peter (mp)
Fierravanti-Wells, Concetta (sen)
Fifield, Mitch (sen)
Hughes, Hollie (sen) x
Hunt, Greg (mp)
Joyce, Barnaby (sen/np) x/by *1np *d'PM
Keenan, Michael (mp)
Laundy, Craig (mp) (added 16/3/2019)
Leyonhjelm, David (sen/ld)
Ley, Sussan (mp)
Mc Grath, James (sen)
Nash, Fiona (mp/np) x/res
O'Dwyer Kelly (mp)
Parry, Steve (sen) r/x
Pyne, Christopher (mp)
Robert, Stuart (mp)
Seselja, Zed (sen)
Sukkar, Michael (mp)
Taylor, Angus (mp)
Tehan, Dan (mp)
Truss, Warren (mp) *1np *d'PM
Tudge, Alan (mp)
Turnbull, Malcolm(mp) *PM

*One lnp deserter (S.R ?) gave tbb the slip...Yes some will recontest...How/Why?
This many LNP Pollies don't care to represent you! How are lnp polling above zero?

I was curious to see if Sheep dogs theory is real or true?

Just look at last 50 years or so

Liberal 68-72
Labor 72-75
Liberal 75-83
Labor 83-91
Labor 91-96
Liberal 96-2007
Labor 2007-13
Liberal 2013-19

Recessions:
Start Finish
1 Apr 1961 30 Sep 1961 (During liberals log run)
1 Oct 1971 31 Mar 1972 (During liberal long run)
1 Jan 1974 30 Jun 1974 (after 2+ years of Labor)
1 Jul 1975 31 Dec 1975 (After about 3 years of Labor being in)
1 Jul 1977 31 Dec 1977 (After a year of Liberal being in)
1 Oct 1981 30 Jun 1983 (After a long liberal run)
1 Oct 1990 30 Jun 1991(After a long labor run)

Economic slowdowns:
Start Finish
1 Oct 1960 30 Sep 1961(After long liberal run)
1 Oct 1971 31 Mar 1972(After a liberal run)
1 Jan 1974 30 Jun 1974 (After a labor run)
1 Jul 1975 31 Dec 1975 (After a Labor run)
1 Jul 1977 31 Dec 1977 (After a year of liberals being in)
1 Oct 1981 30 Jun 1983 (During a decent liberal run)
1 Jan 1986 30 Jun 1986 (During a decent labor run)
1 Oct 1989 31 Dec 1991 (During a decent labor run)
1 Jul 2000 31 Dec 2000 (During a decent labor run)
1 Jan 2006 30 Jun 2006 (During a decent liberal run)
1 Apr 2008 30 Jun 2009 (During a decent labor run)

IMHO doesn't really seem to be a pattern either way, but i guess also influenced by outside forces in the world world economy USA economy, wars, recessions etc

indo-dreaming's chartstopper wins tbb salute! ...surely not bigger than my list?
You do know it has to be rubber stamped by swellnet estimates committee.
Either way I get the day off...don't all applaud! + Welcome home Sheepdog!

50 Great achievements over the last 6 years by the LNP

Well here's my top 10 from the list .

Allowing over 40 companies in Australia that have an annual turnover in excess of $1,500,000,000 per annum and pay zero tax.

The uncontrolled expenditure to private companies of around one billion dollars covering the reef and refugee security at the gulags. The Paladin Affair… Christmas Island.

Failure to address the effects of climate change, while playing with coal as the only source of power generation.

The NBN failure and cost blow out.

The need for an ICAC which the LNP wishes to avoid.

Deliberate low wages growth with the World’s highest Household debt.

The PM stating that he has to spend up to $1,400,000,000 on the Christmas Island “Half Way Hotel” whilst telling graziers it will take them years to recover from floods and stock losses.

$600 million on war memorials to honour our dead in France and expansion for the future in Canberra.

The insistence that housing is an investment and not a basic right.

An inefficient taxation system that favours the wealthy via franking credits and superannuation contributions.

There's plenty more....
https://theaimn.com/abbott-turnbull-and-morrison-their-achievements-part...

Ha ha

Yeah sure Rudd might have technically started the reduction of boats but he also started the biggest flow of boats we have seen in recent history.

Love how that article leaves out the graphs before 2011 here you can see the bigger picture (notice when Rudd ended the pacific solution) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unlawful_Boat_Arrivals_to_Australia(1989-2012).png

No matter ones political views, one thing can't be denied Rudd completely fucked up, he basically trialled an open border policy that was a complete failure and then he did a complete 360 change on policy, something very rare for politicians to do.

Technically he started the reduction in boats, but the real credit has to be given to Liberals for keeping the situation in check for the last five years and cleaning up the mess left by Rudd.

Otherwise it kind of like spewing on someones carpet when your pissed and then being proud and bragging that you cleaned it up. (When really the owner of the house still needs to clean the mess up properly, because really you only took the chunks away, and if they don't the carpets going to get stained, and they are pissed at you for spewing on their carpet)

The mess left by Rudd was detention centres on Manus and Nauru full of people, and that mess is sill being cleaned up.

I guess we will wait and see if Labor learnt their lesson or not, but seeing Shorten is now talking about regional processing it seems not

Shush blindboy dont you know that even when its not entirely Labors fault it's still "Labors fault" especially in relation to the world ending issue of refugee control.

Indo Your link doesn't work.

In terns of stopping the boats the graph in bb's link completely covers the 'big picture'.

"The job was substantially done by the time OSB commenced.
Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison did not stop the boats.  What is clear is that they did not want Labor to stop the boats."

I liked the Malaysian solution i think it was a good idea i would have liked it to have happened to see if it had worked and i think it could have, but that still doesn't change the fact that Labor screwed up.

There is what happened and what could have happened, what could have happened isn't really important compared to what actually happened,

Problem is there was no plan B, plan B was basically trailing open borders.

When a government is in power they are responsible for what happens, you can't blame the other party because your polices didn't get through.

The reality is they scrapped a system that was working (pacific solution) just for the sake of having a different policy, now the interesting thing is, will they do it once again?

I think they will, they will try to tinker with the current system thats working, which is very risky.

PS. Yeah i don't know why it doesn't work, it works if you highlight the while link including the (1989-2012).png bit and open it in another window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unlawful_Boat_Arrivals_to_Australia(1989-2012).png

Don't know why it doesn't want to link that last bit that is the pic

Love the carpet analogy Indo, That's my favorite for a while and Julia's Malaysia solution was a good idea too. My favorite new Labor thing is their announcement the other day on how to deal with domestic violence. You just give all the victims $10,000 cash that they never have to pay back and the banks are going to be forced to pay the money to them. Yep that's their plan and the banks are just gunna be right into that aren't they. I'd say it will last about 1 hour in court before its ditched. As well as that all the wife bashers will be belting their missus and then saying " go get that 10K I need a new telly". Scott Morro is already building housing for domestic violence victims so they have somewhere to run and has dedicated $275,000,000 to the plan. Regarding people smugglers I bet they are already bogging the worm holes in the boats and selling tickets. When Shorten gets in, it will be the worst Government in Australia's history because he is a fraud with no real skills and has been manipulating our country via the unions for years. Even in NSW where Gladys is doing a good job, Shorten can engineer 70 train drivers to call in sick on the one day to make the NSW Liberals look bad. He can send millions of texts to everyone saying Medicare is about to be shutdown just days before an election and people fell for it. Lies manipulation and cunning deceit, that's your new PM...Hope you enjoy the ride.

"celebrate a new era of fair responsible government!"

Your innocence is quite touching.

Facts once mattered; now they are distorted, dismissed or denied in support of inane arguments to support an ideology or theology and in some cases simultaneously both.

Likewise, concepts that once glued communities together like truth, ethics or morality or simply doing the right thing have been lost in a new world way of thinking of exclusion, of self and of aspiration.

With Australian politics I have gone past anger and even despair. On any objective assessment we have endured nearly 6 years of the worst government / governance in Australian history. The LNP came to power knowing what it didn't like but with no sensible centre right nation building policies. In the 6 years since nothing has changed except for 3 prime ministers, more infighting and ongoing scandals involving infidelity and the inappropriate use of large sums of taxpayers money. The LNP deserve to be kicked out of office in a massive swing to Labor. True liberal voters should be bitterly disappointed in the (once) Liberal Party and to vote for them now, after the last 6 years, would be denying the very values and principles Menzies' party argued strongly for.

The Liberal Party is liberal no more, nor is is conservative. We are all conservative or progressive along a spectrum depending on the issue e.g. I'm socially progressive but conservative with money, so I would argue to describe politicians from the right as conservative is a misuse of the word.

The more accurate word to describe the LNP is reactionary i.e. opposing political or social progress or reform and I point to their internal struggles with SSM and energy/climate/coal policy to illustrate my point.

My Saturday morning rant, no correspondence entered into.

I've been through this before ad nauseam but a bit of a recap may be in order -

"Notwithstanding some progressive measures initiated between 2008 and 2013, successive Australian Labor Party governments were constrained by neoliberal strictures, even when they chose to implement progressive policies."

"in retreating from their foundational values of equality, democracy and social solidarity, social democratic parties have undermined the basis for their own popular support. "

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1035304616687951

Don't get me wrong, Labor are infinitely more preferable than the Libs, but if you think Labor are 'the solution', I think you're wrong.

I certainly hope that, assuming they get into government, they introduce changes to negative gearing, franking credits etc but I'm not holding my breath.

They've yet to do anything as fundamental as oppose the Adani mine ferchrissakes.

Labor are as under the thumb as the Libs.

Against my better judgement here you @indo, what's wrong with this article?

https://www.theage.com.au/national/worst-ever-immigration-minister-asylu...

More on the COALition and their love of coal.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-government-hit-by-ne...

What makes you think that things might change?

And I'm a little surprised that you're buying into personality politics, a version of the American presidential-style thing.

As much as I would love for Labor to go aggressively at labour laws / rights rip the heart out of the current billionaires / multi nationals empires built on relationships / cronyism change the direction of wealth distribution in this country re-establish the middle class domination (get rid of the BS aspiration crap) as starters I accept its not a starter simply due to political realities.

Politics often has to be incremental hopefully a Shorten government will be the start of that process.

As for Shorten I have never rated him but his track record as opposition leader has been solid and so far hasn't lurched to the right has put out more policy than any one for a long time in the same position as apposed to the government which basically have none.

From the current list of Labor policy its pretty clear where a Shorten Labor government will go unlike Scomo and his mate Abbott you have to know the wind direction 1st and if a small group of extreme party radicals agree.

What is the Coalition energy policy?

Current mob should be charged as criminals allowing 14% youth unemployment while overseeing skilled visa migration off the dial instead of getting our youth employed or in skilled training

Coalition energy policy is there for all to see in black and white.

To wit : The coalition will continue to devote all of their energy towards siphoning money from the public purse into the pockets of the big end of town.

Same as it ever was.

Whilst I generally agree with ifocus's post above, labor are just as guilty as libs re. the last paragraph, it's worse when labor allow that shit to happen. Way way worse, it just confirms they've well and truly forgotten 'labor values'.

If labor does get in, adani is going to be a big big (huge even) white elephant that haunts them for decades to come. Undermining their credibility on a host of issues.

The only thing that may save them is the seemingly self imploding liberal party.

Talking about personality politics, if julie bishop got the leadership, labor wouldn't stand a chance in this upcoming election. Scomo is a gift to labor, a gift only shorten has the capacity to fuck up. Nice work! Both parties!

It's most interesting that some in the libs can even think that abbott has the capacity to appeal to wider australia. The term autistic cunts springs to mind. This thinking is ongoing and evident in chosing scomo as leader. But, then again, he's not as autistic a choice as dutton would've been...

Nothing against autistic folk intended, I use that term because it refers to a total incapacity from some to appreciate how and what the 'typicals' think.