Climate Change

blowfly's picture
blowfly started the topic in Wednesday, 1 Jul 2020 at 9:40am

.

Distracted's picture
Distracted's picture
Distracted Saturday, 11 Sep 2021 at 5:27pm

Re the mine rehabilitation. Standard procedure for many years was once a big mining company had made its millions then it would sell off the mine, and it’s rehab requirements, to a junior explorer which invariably goes went bust and the mine wasn’t cleaned up.

Also happens with oil and gas. Supafreak or Megzee you were up in the north west and might have heard of Woodside selling the North Endeavour platform off once the reserves were almost gone to a junior company who have no cash. So it’s now going to be us, the taxpayers, spending $200M! To fix it all up, while Woodside and it’s profits walks away.
https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/taxpayers-on-hook-for-oil-policy-fa...
Government is now trying to change the policy though and I think it is currently in the senate.

@Indo, cleaning up big open cut mines is a bit more complex than pushing the sides in and letting it fill up with water. Whether it’s minerals or coal, the surrounding rock is typically also enriched in heavy metals or sulphides so there are nasty leachates coming out of the rock into the water. Let alone the tailings dams full of metals, cyanide, acid etc etc which need to be some how contained.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Saturday, 11 Sep 2021 at 5:50pm

Thanks for that distracted , good scam selling off to a company that’s got no money and goes bust .

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Tuesday, 21 Sep 2021 at 5:03pm

This is cool, all-electric flight, toward carbon-zero, the Rolls-Royce Spirit of Innovation:

Particularly stoked here as it's styling evokes the famous racing monoplanes of the 1930s. Once more shining aluminium is the way of the future.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 21 Sep 2021 at 5:17pm

Surprised it still quite noisy.

Never going to be realistic for commercial flights though, problem is battery weight and batteries dont get lighter during flights like fuel does, Green hydrogen will be the future for commercial planes.

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ Tuesday, 21 Sep 2021 at 5:24pm

Don't be so sure Indo, there's a lot of work going on in this field.

For example : https://cordis.europa.eu/project/id/723119

Very interesting stuff for sure.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno Tuesday, 21 Sep 2021 at 5:27pm

Wouldn't be surprised if the green hydrogen supplants batteries in some uses, or if battery tech jumps a paradigm eg graphene or other. Presently, if lithium at current densities replaced every car, I think I read the vehicle fleet of the UK alone would take all the lithium, never mind other countries. But the genie is out of the bottle, and hopefully some very clever battery or fuel-cell tech wins the day.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 21 Sep 2021 at 7:37pm

I can see heavy industry and transport using hydrogen like shipping, aviation, earthworks, larger trucks, railways unless electrified.

And batteries focussed more on domestic type things or lighter industry, cars, motor bikes, light trucks, recreational boating, smaller things like fork lifts, bob cats, small excavators etc

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ Tuesday, 21 Sep 2021 at 8:17pm

Indo, batteries have already made into smaller ferries..

https://spbes.com/portfolio/electric-ferry-elektra/

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 23 Sep 2021 at 5:35pm

"Records continued to tumble on Australia’s main electricity grid on Monday, with the share of renewable energy smashing through 60 per cent for the first time, just a day after it had set a new record of 59.8 per cent."

From same article "It is also predicting that rooftop solar could meet up to 75 per cent of demand on the entire main grid at certain times over the next five years, and is preparing the national grid to accommodate times of up to 100 per cent wind and solar by 2025."

https://reneweconomy.com.au/records-smashed-as-renewables-break-through-...

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Friday, 24 Sep 2021 at 1:04pm

Old Twiggy knows how to make a buck , this looks huge . https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/24/sun-cables-huge-sola...

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Friday, 24 Sep 2021 at 3:05pm

Indo, saw the stats the other day….seems like we are going to blitz the field without signing up to stupid agreements and controls by foreign powers. If we stay on track for our billion trees program as well , we will certainly be a good example to others. It’s the beauty of action instead of all talk and it’s the people that change the world not governments signing papers in foreign lands.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Friday, 24 Sep 2021 at 5:00pm
Optimist wrote:

Indo, saw the stats the other day….seems like we are going to blitz the field without signing up to stupid agreements and controls by foreign powers. If we stay on track for our billion trees program as well , we will certainly be a good example to others. It’s the beauty of action instead of all talk and it’s the people that change the world not governments signing papers in foreign lands.

Kinda energy makes up 50% of emissions, next biggest is transport 15% & agriculture 15%

And still a long way to go overcome the intermicity issues the times when wind doesn't blow and its dark, but yeah we are well ahead of where most Aussies think we are, im not sure why the media paints things as they do, it's weird.

The good thing is its natural growth driven by good economics thats the kind of thing you want rather than spinning some artificial tangled web trying to proper things up.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Friday, 24 Sep 2021 at 5:30pm

BTW. came across something unexpected in regard to electric cars this week.

In Vic Labor state government as most would know are putting a electric vehicle tax based on odometer readings.

While in NSW a LNP state government they are putting any type of electric car user tax on hold for 6 years and actually giving buyers $3,000 and scrapping stamp duty on electric cars purchased to encourage take up.

It's weird the policies of both parties are the exact opposite of what you might expect.

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 6:14am

@Craig , have you heard much about this potential solar storm ? Sure would cause kaos globally if it does happen . https://www.livescience.com/solar-storm-internet-apocalypse. https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/could-a-solar-storm-cause-most-massive-int...

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 6:36am

Indo, the answer to night time generation has always been there. As I’ve talked about before, all current petrol or diesel cars can be fitted with a second battery and when you get home at night you simply plug your car into the wall and through a small inverter transfer the excess power to the grid from that battery. Millions of cars charging the grid every night and day and getting a few cents per KW hour as well is a no brainer.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 7:41am
Optimist wrote:

Indo, the answer to night time generation has always been there. As I’ve talked about before, all current petrol or diesel cars can be fitted with a second battery and when you get home at night you simply plug your car into the wall and through a small inverter transfer the excess power to the grid from that battery. Millions of cars charging the grid every night and day and getting a few cents per KW hour as well is a no brainer.

-Except the big problem is in the future there will be no petrol cars.
-Plus why would anyone invest big money in a battery in a petrol driven car? (off course you need a battery to hold much more energy than just a standard car battery)
-Where do you fit these much larger batteries in these cars?
-The energy needed to charge a home at night is much larger than the energy you can produce from just a drive to work, the energy generated for a car battery is very different its small, its only to start a car.
-Whats the point of burning petrol to create energy?...defies the whole point.

In regard to electric cars and using battery to power the grid at night, yeah sure some people will have access to charge their car during the day and will be able to plug in and use that energy, but its a bit silly last thing you want to do is wake up in the morning to go to work and your battery is low.

Plus most people wont have access to energy to recharge during the day or have long commutes to work, so need a full battery on the way to work and way home, hence will charge overnight.

My friends have a Telsla and when they come home they plug it in to recharge at night, not the other way around.

There is heaps of other more realistic systems of storage but currently the incentive is not there to invest in storage compared to just investing in producing solar energy because panels are cheap compared to batteries and energy prices high during peak periods so better returns all round.

On the flip side the cost of storage is far far greater and the rewards for most of the night is low. (off peak prices)

Only when we hit close to 100% renewables during the day and prices companies get paid drop or more realistically dont increase will we see big investment in storage logically in the future night time prices will actually be higher than day time prices, not due to demand but due to supply, further helping investment in storage.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 7:55am

Also the car won't start in the morning when wanting to head to the beach or work .

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 8:00am

A few weeks ago i turned up at my friends place pretty early in the morning and his wife went to go to work jumped in the tesla and the battery was close to empty as they forgot to plug it in to recharge overnight, so she had to take his petrol driven car instead and he had to recharge her tesla for and hour or so before he could go anywhere, so it does happen.

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 8:13am

Indo, My idea is for the “now”…petrol and diesel cars will be around for many years to come. The power stored in a second battery in the boot or under the bonnet only collects excess energy as your car always generates more than it needs in just your daily running around. The second battery is a few hundred bucks and has a blocking diode to stop it being discharged. Ask any off-roader …most already have the set up in. An inexpensive lead and approved inverter on the wall and your getting paid to discharge that second battery into the grid…similar to any motor home which has the same 240v inverter set up. It would pay for itself in no time and solve the night storage issue.

Fliplid's picture
Fliplid's picture
Fliplid Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 9:56am

Some interesting insights into hydrogen power in this video. If what he is proposing comes to fruition it will be a game changer

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=twiggy+forrest+boye...

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 10:11am

The constant decline of Arctic sea ice in the Laptev Sea, 2021 was a record low for August,.

brutus's picture
brutus's picture
brutus Monday, 27 Sep 2021 at 1:48pm

try this one 2030....https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/13/greenland-ice-shee...

rather ironic as I have just been asked to do a questionnaire for our local problem here on Sea Level rise and the affects on Bells.......

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 1:48pm

Fort Denison in Sydney harbour has shown that the rise in sea levels have been stable . No change since the reversal in the last Ice Age .

3 to 4 inches every 100 years for the last few thousand years .

"The mean sea level trend is 0.65 millimeters/year with a 95% confidence interval of +/- 0.10 mm/yr based on monthly mean sea level data from 1886 to 2010 which is equivalent to a change of 0.21 feet in 100 years."

Brutus - just copy and paste the same responses from 100 years ago and you should be right .

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_global_station.shtml...

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 4:57pm

"3 to 4 inches every 100 years for the last few thousand years ."

Hutchy, maybe you would like to post the data missing from your claim. The data in your link starts at 1890 and is extrapolated back along the trend line a bit further but that still leaves you well short of a few thousand years.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 5:09pm

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 5:50pm

Thanks Indo, nothing much seems to have changed.

We are now onto the fourth wave of a conservative attack on the credibility of science that started around 50 years ago. The first wave was the use of the advertising industry to cast doubt on the findings about smoking and cancer. The second wave was the efforts by fundamentalist Christian groups to discredit evolution by falsifying evidence. The third, and biggest, wave has been the huge propaganda effort to discredit climate change. The fourth wave is the present campaign against the evidence for vaccination. The cumulative effects of these efforts will enable further disruptions in the future and push the culture further along its regression to superstition.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 5:57pm

If the vaccination science was so strong they wouldn’t have to muzzle any dissenting voices within the medical community.

https://www.ahpra.gov.au/documents/default.aspx?record=WD21/30750&dbid=A...

“Any promotion of anti-vaccination statements or health advice which contradicts the best available scientific evidence or seeks to actively undermine the national immunisation campaign (including via social media) is not supported by National Boards and may be in breach of the codes of conduct and subject to investigation and possible regulatory action.“

Don’t question the authority!

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 5:57pm

And the relevance of that to climate change is....?

Oh wait, I get it. Grievance.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 6:05pm
JQ wrote:

And the relevance of that to climate change is....?

Oh wait, I get it. Grievance.

Says the fella that literally posts nothing but grievances and has nothing to say beyond criticising other posters.

How about you try contributing something more than bile, bloke?

The above comment was in reference to the preceding comment. Completely relevant. Today I’ve posted about birds, surf clips and fuck knows what else. What’ve you ever contributed beyond snark?

Don’t be that bloke, bloke.

JQ's picture
JQ's picture
JQ Tuesday, 28 Sep 2021 at 6:33pm

Sore spot eh! I'm just amused really.

Don't put it up if you don't want criticism.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 12:22pm

Connie - you cut and paste others views on all topics . Do you have of your own ?

Nice of you to provide a summary of the mainly left leaning media ( will say the Australian is middle ) .

Seems like a generally positive response . Has lead with a new way to tackle this issue which was a previous negative for his party . Found a common ground which Labor will not be able to do within their own party or the Greens .

Even Pelosi was singing his praises on his recent trip to the US .

Has sent the agenda for an election and seems to have built a solid foundation .

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 1:34pm

Constance, sounds like Morrison has done a backroom deal to kick the can down the road and piss money up against the wall on unproven technologies like carbon capture. The palaeoconservatives of the National Party are unlikely to have supported any actual effort to reduce emissions. And if he takes centre stage at the Climate Conference it will only be to provide an opportunity for the delegates to pelt him with rotten fruit. He might fool the local journos and that section of the population suffering from terminal complacency. He might even fool Boris and Biden, but he won't fool the majority of the delegates.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 1:51pm

Most of the worlds media is left leaning Connie ( maybe an obscure country like Singapore is not ) . Especially the global media .

Same as most of the institutions . Schools /Uni/ Government service/Courts etc . The military not so much .

You said -" to your "generally positive response" (that doesn't exist, as yet, in reality. " . Der Fred . I was talking about the articles views .

Reality will be disclosed at the next election and not before . Although the losers won't recognise the reality like our last election .The Greens said it was the Climate Change election and Qld told them to F..k Off . They hate being told what to do .

Your smart with words . What is a person that seeks negative "pay you the requisite attention you seek. 24/7." I think I am antimacassar person but could be deluding myself .

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 1:57pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Most of the worlds media is left leaning Connie ( maybe an obscure country like Singapore is not ) . Especially the global media .

It is?

Maybe you'd consider it cultural left, or progressive left, or as the subscriber to the fantastic Macrobusiness website calls it, the fake left.

Very little media, particularly here in Oz, is economic left. In fact, none of the high circ mastheads are.

sypkan's picture
sypkan's picture
sypkan Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 2:18pm

carbon capture... what a disaster...

the media excerpts above... how nauseating...

labor... cooked...

cooked beyond done...

morrison just picked em at the post... totally... as labor turned around to run the other way...

bahahahahahaha

as they say... you couldn't make this stuff up...

i really really do not intend to be so mean to labor... but seriously... they literally cannot win a trick... they are a rudderless tanker with a blind albatros at the wheel...

what a sad sad state of affairs for australia

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 2:21pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Most of the worlds media is left leaning Connie ( maybe an obscure country like Singapore is not ) . Especially the global media .

Same as most of the institutions . Schools /Uni/ Government service/Courts etc . The military not so much .

You said -" to your "generally positive response" (that doesn't exist, as yet, in reality. " . Der Fred . I was talking about the articles views .

Reality will be disclosed at the next election and not before . Although the losers won't recognise the reality like our last election .The Greens said it was the Climate Change election and Qld told them to F..k Off . They hate being told what to do .

Your smart with words . What is a person that seeks negative "pay you the requisite attention you seek. 24/7." I think I am antimacassar person but could be deluding myself .

True in a big part for the developed world (maybe not governments though), but not developing world, most developing world media, governments and people are conservatives.

But yeah in the last 20 years especially the last ten there has been a big shift especially in media and social media, how Trump was treated by media and social media giants is a great example. (Hunter Biden banning on social media, cancelling of Trump from social media, Trump would have had a much stringer chance if he hasn't been canceled from Twitter etc)

I listened to this the other day by Podcast but i remember much of it was along these lines, all their podcast/videos are excellent.

Just skimming through it at least listen to about 5:00

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 2:58pm

Stu- "Very little media, particularly here in Oz, is economic left. In fact, none of the high circ mastheads are."

The only media that is right leaning in Australia is Murdoch ( and he often picks the other side ) and Sky ( of the ones I watch or read ).

All Fairfax ( Age and AFR ) all the TV stations , ABC and SBS radio and TV are way left imo .

I have read the AFR for 30 years and just because it is finance related doesn't mean it is right .

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:32pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Stu- "Very little media, particularly here in Oz, is economic left. In fact, none of the high circ mastheads are."

The only media that is right leaning in Australia is Murdoch ( and he often picks the other side ) and Sky ( of the ones I watch or read ).

All Fairfax ( Age and AFR ) all the TV stations , ABC and SBS radio and TV are way left imo .

I have read the AFR for 30 years and just because it is finance related doesn't mean it is right .

You just said The Australian is in the middle. Do you know who owns that rag mate?

As for the ones you mentioned being "way left", yeah, not even close.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:40pm
stunet wrote:
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Most of the worlds media is left leaning Connie ( maybe an obscure country like Singapore is not ) . Especially the global media .

It is?

Maybe you'd consider it cultural left, or progressive left, or as the subscriber to the fantastic Macrobusiness website calls it, the fake left.

Very little media, particularly here in Oz, is economic left. In fact, none of the high circ mastheads are.

Majestic Macrobusiness?

Too strong?

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:42pm

“All Fairfax ( Age and AFR ) all the TV stations , ABC and SBS radio and TV are way left imo .”

Geez . That’s a misread and a half.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:52pm

Hiccup - I do read the Australian and imo it is in the middle with the editorial sometimes leaning right . One of the only mainstream papers that has journalists of the left and right . Of course I know who owns it pea brain .

As I said above -"The only media that is right leaning in Australia is Murdoch ( and he often picks the other side ) "

Maybe you should let the adults who consistently read discuss this to save you having to catch up ?

The AFR has been for 20 years strongly pro climate change reduction strategies . Is there another topic that is more right / left than this ? If you think of one and let me know and I will give an opinion on what side the AFR has been .

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:52pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Hiccup - I do read the Australian and imo it is in the middle with the editorial sometimes leaning right . One of the only mainstream papers that has journalists of the left and right . Of course I know who owns it pea brain .

As I said above -"The only media that is right leaning in Australia is Murdoch ( and he often picks the other side ) "

Maybe you should let the adults who consistently read discuss this to save you having to catch up ?

d00d, you don't understand sarcasm, or what constitutes "way left", but sure, I'll catch up to you. You foolish, ignorant, boomer, fuckwit.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:56pm

Hiccup - I just added to my post above . Please give me another topic other than climate change that shows a clear distinction between left and right .

Not sure how much you think I know but from all the posts you have written I assume not much . Will keep an eye out for your sarcasm in the future as it will save me time responding .

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 3:56pm

I subscribe to the SMH and it’s as Fake Left as it gets.

They can’t bleat hard enough about how Australia needs to open up for hundreds of thousands of highly skilled food service delivery drivers ASAP and how the only reason houses are so expensive is because of a lack of supply. That second one was today. Fairfax are the ultimate neoliberal shills.

Actually….Blindboy said the exact same thing as LNP member Jason Falinski
in today’s SMH.

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 4:02pm
Hutchy 19 wrote:

Hiccup - I just added to my post above . Please give me another topic other than climate change that shows a clear distinction between left and right .

Not sure how much you think I know but from all the posts you have written I assume not much . Will keep an eye out for your sarcasm in the future as it will save me time responding .

What? You can't think of a topic that shows a distinction between the right and the left, or do you think I can't? Either way, wtf is wrong with you?

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 4:20pm

You IDIOT ! I have given you what I believe is the perfect example , Climate Change mitigation , that is divided left and right . I can't think of a better topic and invited you to suggest one .

"The AFR has been for 20 years strongly pro climate change reduction strategies . Is there another topic that is more right / left than this ? If you think of one and let me know and I will give an opinion on what side the AFR has been ."

I highlighted that I added this to my post .

What is wrong with you ? If you think that my topic is the best example the argument is settled as far as I am concerned .

The lunatics are trying to run the asylum today !

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 4:37pm

I was saying that if you wanna talk about another topic that shows the distinction, you go for your life. I'm not offering you shit. How strongly has the AFR advocated for climate change reduction strategies, really? Seeing as you don't know what far left or even centre is, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 5:59pm

Hiccup - If you had read the AFR consistently you would know the answer immediately . I have and it has been only one sided for 20 years . I don't expect you to believe me as I have already told you this .

Your inability to offer anything ( which would be shit anyway ) is proportionate with what you know on this subject . As I also said , leave the discussion to adults that have an informed opinion . You are wasting my time !

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 6:31pm

haha. You've got half informed, at best, opinions on a lot of things, and opinions with no substance whatsoever on everything else you stupid old gronk. Pretty impressive that everyone on here, including people that loathe each other have all come to the same consensus about you, and it's not a flattering one.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming Thursday, 30 Sep 2021 at 6:41pm

Ive never read the AFR but media bias fact check says, it's right centre bias.

But on the visual rating it actually sits very close to the centre, I've never seen a media outlet rated that close to the centre.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-australian-financial-review/

For a comparison ABC news is rated left centre bias but a bit more off centre than AFR, SBS same but more left again, the Age little more left again, and something like Crikey is dead left bias.

Sky news is dead centre right bias, The Australian centre right bias (sits about the same spot SBS sits except right) Herald sun centre bias but more to the centre (but compared to ABC not as close to the centre)

I actually think this website is pretty accurate, so if you dont agree chances are it's your own perspective that is off.