Interesting stuff
Christ Billy. I made hundreds of thousands of dollars off the ridiculous certainty of crew like yourself. So it’d be a bit harsh to complain that the sort exists.
Comparing the vagaries of humanity’s future political direction to the immutable geometric and immediately erifiable fact of the Earth’s form is the realm of idiocy if you’re on the lookout for it.
Just ease up for gods sake. It’s futurism mate. No one knows until it’s happened.
Blowin you're awesome, you made hundred of thousands of dollars and now you have all the time in the world to post crap on every forum there is - congrats on your retirement and early senility
Please don’t joke about early senility as my father is heading down that road.
But yeah....I can’t really take credit for making money from the rigid and reckless stupidity of others. The credit is all theirs .
Anyway I don’t want to get combative about it . All I ask is that you make your point without the need to try and ridicule others for having a different opinion about a subject which has no definitive outcome as yet.
Can you buy me a house? Since you’ve made so much money.
I’m not Jeff Bezos but I’d buy you a beer if you were skint.
You’d have to agree to listen to me explain why we live on a planet shaped like a pizza dish though.
"That’s why I bought a house back in April even whilst I was describing to yourself why I thought house prices would probably go down."
Congrats on the house purchase.
Sypkan, I'm interested in your perception of the accuracy and bias in the reporting on zerohedge. As you are more than willing to call out other media groups you perceive to be dishonest and/or biased.
I would contend that zerohedge is actually pretty poor for factual reporting.
I might dig in to that story you linked on the great reset thing a bit later. My feeling is they have taken a lot of kernels of information and just unreasonably expanded on it.
Blowin, can you elaborate on your opposition to the EU?
I'd have thought you be all behind a 'great reset' anyway? You frequently talk - quite rightly - about how the global economic system is unfair for most. Mind you, any reset driven by the davos set is very unlikely to improve things for most people...
JQ - humanity obviously can’t continue on its current trajectory. The paradox of continuous growth is pretty glaring. There’s a contradictory push towards preserving the Earth’s resources whilst simultaneously raising living standards around the globe to an equitable first world level. Unfortunately you can only have one of the two.
I imagine that a global government would be more interested in rationing the Earth’s resources which is a laudable enough idea in the abstract. But when the reality means eradicating the agency of individuals so that the common good is prioritised it starts to sound awfully like something I don’t want to be a part of.
I place a massive premium on personal freedom and despise authority . Particularly when the authority adapts its usual corrupt , intrusive and overzealous form.
Can you even conceive of a world in which the likes of Scott Morrison are in charge of your life beyond the degree of control he has now ? Picture an international version of robodebt and that’s how I envision a global government. Only there’s no one to vote out when it all goes tits up.
It’s too easy to imagine the purview of the “ management of the global commons “ to continuously expand until it encompasses virtually every facet of human existence.
Because we exist on Earth , everything we do can be construed as having an impact on the global commons which then needs to be managed by a global institution.
Fishing , driving your car , using electricity at home , watering your garden . Everything. Now that public health is becoming involved even who you associate comes under the scope of the global common good.
Irrespective of intent I just assume it’ll become corrupted by hypocritical and avaricious power mongers like every other governing body in the history of governing bodies.
I like you jq, you ask questions and stuff, and are willing to discuss things and shit... which is all I want to do most of the time...
but it seems that's not allowed for certain posters, for certain zealots, discussion is not to be tolerated... ironically enough...
they just wanna yell, name call, and shut shit down...
shit half the time I'm just putting ideas out there, seeing if they stack up, 'sunlight is the best medicine' and all that... said the washington post...
ironically....
again
mate I could tear that zerohedge article apart, ...if I wanted to... but I don't want to, because the bullshit they are peddling is much closer to the truth than the original bullshit article propaganda peddled by the nyt that zh were answering to
zerohedge are actually quite factual I find, certain topics I'd say they are all over it. they come at some topics from a rather interesting perspective, one that leaves one wondering wtf their ideology actually is... which is how the news should be
I wish I could say the same for the guardian, nyt, wapo etc.
...and cnn. especially cnn, they are so so far out there they have become a laughing stock, a parody of themselves, lacking so much self awareness that they are way funnier than snl and other 'comedy' attempts
it comes down to subject matter, I'm not going to the guardian or the atlantic for an authouritive perspective on identity politics, but if there's a critique of identity politics at the atlantic I'll give it a run. I'm not going to the guardian about climate change either, or immigration, or refugees, or trump, or boris, or china... actually I can't think of any reason I'd turn to the guardian... they are pure trash
similarly I'm not going to vox about obama v trump, ...or kids in cages... because when vox runs pictures of trump putting kids in cages, ...it turns out the pics are from the obama administration, such is the perverse propaganda of the modern media landscape
but I'm not gonna go to brietbart for an objective account of trump either, but I'll go there to find a kernal of truth about a trump issue, I must go there unfortunately, because wapo and nyt certainly aren't providing that
horses for courses mate, every topic, every article should present both sides to a story, that's what 'reporting' is, ...or was...
unfortunately in the contemporary media landscape, I must go to two opposing ideological propaganda outlets, and read them both with the critical-est of eyes, just to get some semblance of the truth, because the whole kit and caboodle is so so corrupted its just bloody shameful!
a disgrace
dangerously so...
Cheers Indo.
A lot of work to be done. This is my first day off in a couple of weeks. Been going flat out. Start tarting up one part only to discover that something else is basically rooted. Anyone who’s ever bought an older home knows the story.
Fun , demanding , satisfying and expensive.
Nice Blowin, yeah old houses can be a can of worms, satisfying pimping your own place up though.
@ sypkan
I think this video is kind of relevant to the conversation :D
Scary thing is it's way too true.
"How to Sell Protest Footage to FOX AND CNN"
Hahahahahahaha.
The 3 stooges! B.I.T. and in full effect.
Blowie, the money man. Sepp, the philosophical brains of the operation. And Info the grunt doing all the spade work.
Tre-mendous.
Big.
Strong.
better a striving Immanuel Kant
than a perpetually lyng kunt...
new subject!
Are aussie fish and chips killing SAF great white sharks?
https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/are-australian-fish-n-chips-killing...
jeez..who eats frozen seafood in australia, that's a national disgrace up there with our murdering sas soldiers.
just make sure you buy fresh and local -- like from the burril lake fish and chip. best flake on the east coast.
Hahahahaha. Straining Kant!
Regular as clockwork, Sepp.
"I stink therefore I am."
Talking about fush, why the preponderance of Hake in the chippies of Oz?
Hokey!
Fatal shark attack at Broome's Cable Beach.
Cause all our decent fish is scheduled for export to The Chyna and exchange rates coupled with labour prices means that we are NZ’s version of The Chyna.
Everyone wins !
Everyone except the planet* and any locals who want a decent feed of fish
* How’d it come to pass that the average Broome coral trout earned more frequent flier miles than most FIFO workers by the time its hit the plate ? Neoliberalism baby !
What's a dead female wrestler got to do with anything?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/22/arts/television/chyna-wrestler-dead.html
Did Trumpy grab her by the pussy or something back in his wrestling days?
.
Swillnut alco drunk ahoy!!!
Baiting? No, just questioning suspect, ludicrous comments. Your despised 'immigrants cashing in on on property, in an already over populated country, milking it while they can', suddenly became the 'knights in white armour, bubble of brilliance'. Ludicrous two faced, ship jumping shit, again...
Like when your fifo chippy money making mission was ludicrously bullshitted by you into, 'I did it to save the Indigenous Australians.... aaaayyyeee but...'. You're an all time bullshit artist, a wannabe 'smiffy', who dicovered a theaurus. The worst kind.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/use-simple-language-to-sound-smarter-...
And now seethingly, slobberingly jealous, constant red misting, because everyone knows, and people are constantly pointing out, that you'd be nothing but a snivvling spectator, in surf that facto excelled in. Just a gronk with a sawn off, discount, gummy, deserted storm. Relentlessy searching for mmmaaayyyteees from 'easta albs', that wouldn't know who the fuck you are. And thats it.
'As for klan boy blowindo's latest stupe' sponsored 'findings' and 'research' courtesy of the:
'Swillnut Club Institute of Education, Training and Development offers beyond belief features such as:
* No entry requirements at all!!!
* No study whatsoever required!!!
*Degrees available in any topic in any galaxy on any planet!!!
*Attain multiple degrees in an instant... the more the merrier!!!
*No exams, no test of any sort of competency level at all!!!
*Become well above fully qualified in an instant!!!
*Become highly experienced in an instant!!!
*Study at campuses all over the country... even at east of Albany!!!
*No campus at east of Albany!!!!??!!
*Bullshitting recognized as prior learning!!!
*Racists, rapists, dunces welcome!!! Women bashers welcome, all welcome#!!!
# NB... certain conditions apply to immigrants and Indigenous Australians.'
I'm going to do a workout... again...
Come on bloke . Facto has just gone for cocktails after binge drinking for a couple of weekends in a row . Doesn’t mean he’s an alcoholic.
Ah Blowie, ya poor self-redacting fool, you. Sore bum must be killing ya.
Well, hopefully not in a literal sense.
Loser.
Owch!
Hahahahahahaha.
Blowin -
'humanity obviously can’t continue on its current trajectory. The paradox of continuous growth is pretty glaring. There’s a contradictory push towards preserving the Earth’s resources whilst simultaneously raising living standards around the globe to an equitable first world level. Unfortunately you can only have one of the two.'
Sure, no doubt we cannot continue as we are doing, infinite growth is just nonsense, that much should be apparent to anyone of reasonable intelligence. I don't agree that preserving the resources is at odds with raising living standards, granted an equitable first world standard may not be achievable at the moment. I feel like you are perhaps underestimating the sheer wealth, luxury and lifestyles that the richest among us can lead - 8 people possess (I deliberately do not use the word 'own') as much wealth as HALF the worlds population man.
'I imagine that a global government would be more interested in rationing the Earth’s resources which is a laudable enough idea in the abstract. But when the reality means eradicating the agency of individuals so that the common good is prioritised it starts to sound awfully like something I don’t want to be a part of.'
It probably would be about rationing the Earths resources, that is essentially a necessity now. Climate change presents one of the first challenges that absolutely has to be tackled as entire planet and we've seen how hard any meaningful action has been to achieve on that.
I fear your approach to 'freedom' or 'agency', how ever you'd like to define it, is not pragmatic at all. Rationing the Earths resources and prioritising the common good is going to become essential, it won't be a choice. Taking steps early to work in some form or another towards this goal will stop this inevitable outcome from taking place at the end of a gun barrel. I do agree that there seems very little chance, in the current environment, of this happening in a fair and equitable manner.
'I place a massive premium on personal freedom and despise authority . Particularly when the authority adapts its usual corrupt , intrusive and overzealous form.'
So do I, I despise authoritarianism. But I'm what I'd term 'pragmatic' about the concept. I despise the fact that I can't sit on the balcony on a Friday after work and have a joint legally in peace, but I also recognise that having methamphetamine for sale at the chemist is a really bad idea. I despise the dragnet style snooping of metadata collection, but recognise the necessity of tapping / bugging people of interests communications.
'Can you even conceive of a world in which the likes of Scott Morrison are in charge of your life beyond the degree of control he has now ? Picture an international version of robodebt and that’s how I envision a global government. Only there’s no one to vote out when it all goes tits up.'
Yeah I can, it's one with Peter 'show us ya browser history' Dutton at the helm. Yeah, I too don't think a world government would work now, we need much more growth and maturity as a species. But I also think it is utter nonsense to think it could ever come about in our lifetimes, the level of cooperation and negotiation required just would never happen. At this point I think it's just a Libertarians fevered nightmare, with almost no basis in reality.
'It’s too easy to imagine the purview of the “ management of the global commons “ to continuously expand until it encompasses virtually every facet of human existence.
Because we exist on Earth , everything we do can be construed as having an impact on the global commons which then needs to be managed by a global institution.
Fishing , driving your car , using electricity at home , watering your garden . Everything. Now that public health is becoming involved even who you associate comes under the scope of the global common good.
Irrespective of intent I just assume it’ll become corrupted by hypocritical and avaricious power mongers like every other governing body in the history of governing bodies.'
Sure, 'management of the global commons' is a nebulous term, but it is a line that is already needing to be penciled in - like it or not. We cannot behave as though we are isolated, just as we cannot pretend that perpetual growth is realistic. You cannot put your head in the sand and just refuse. The longer you (referring to a country, state, city etc) refuse to participate the higher the chances that you'll end up doing so under duress, without a say at all.
Yeah, at this point in time I'd agree, it would be corrupted. But as I said previously, i think it's maybe a century or more away.
Don't worry Sypkan, I'll get to you when I've got time. Suffice to say I disagree vigorously.
"Three years ago, my cousin tried to kill me. When people ask why, I don’t know what to say. Usually I mumble that he didn’t have a reason. I say that he didn’t even think he had a reason. We had no argument that day or any other in 40 years."
Fantastic read from the New York Times Magazine. Long but thoroughly worth it, an explosion and disavowal of masculinity tropes. Gripping and well structured too.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/08/magazine/cousin-kill-me-male-violence.html
Link doesn't work Stu. Speaking of the masculine...
"An anti-gay Hungarian politician has resigned after being caught by the police fleeing a 25-man orgy through a window"
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/hungarian-mep-resigns-breaking-covid-...
When someone is vociferously anti something, you know they're likely hot for it.
Link works now...
Geez, what a read Stu
Which parts of that story had the most impact on yourself, Stu ?
I read it as related less to masculinity than to mental health , self esteem and relationships in general. I find that human insecurity/ anxiety expressed as violence is no more or less powerful than human insecurity expressed through means such as treacherous behaviour or criminality or manipulative tendencies towards others. None of which you’d focus on as specifically the product of toxic masculinity. I don’t really understand the spotlight on masculinity as being responsible for most of man’s failures or foibles when the causative spectrum for human frailty is so broad.
Jeezus thats heavy reading, what a sicko. And he didn't get locked up for it
Personally, very little of his life overlapped with my own, maybe a few elements of risk-taking but he didn't go far down that path as the version of masculinity he was (mostly) describing was more of dominance and inducing fear in others to feel comfortable in oneself. I'm not disposed that way.
What had the most impact was his analysis of masculine tropes and how they have little relevance in the complex, modern world, and yet men are still somewhat beholden to them. I've long thought toxic masculinity was too multi-faceted to neatly encapsulate in a stereotype, and this was another version of the same argument.
But all that aside, it was a cleverly structured and gripping read. All those short sentences and short paragraphs, piled lightly on top of each other giving the impression it was merely jotted down, when in reality it was a highly crafted piece in disguise. Fucking brilliant.
Powerful stuff Stu. Makes a compelling, and very personal, case for change.
Very New York Times.
very toxic masculinity.
It all seemed a bit rote to me. A bit too overblown, in ever way.
Laid it on way too thick.
and the conclusions didn't follow from the premises.
I also smelt a fair bit of embellishing in the tale.
I kinda agree with Free.
Like seriously, who gets paid just to sweep floors in a pizza joint?
One part I could relate to- when I was a young fella I punched on once and came off second best. My boss at the time (cool Kiwi lady) got out the makeup and hid my shiner as best she could for the week.
Honestly though, very well written, very thought provoking and definitely very NYT.
the person who sweeps the floor in a pizza joint is called...the busboy.
in the US, food establishments have waiters -- they are paid $0-$5 an hour plus tips. they take orders and bring food, and when people are still seated will take plates away.
then there is the busboy. he (always male and does not need english) is paid $3 - $5 an hour and has no contact with the diners and so earns no tips. he takes no orders, delivers no food to tables
his primary job is keeping the "bus station" clear -- that's the place where the waiters dump all the used plates and left over food, and sweeping the floor.
Hey Chook, I was being facetious. I know what a busboy is- I actually worked as one many many moons ago. And my knowledge of the US amounts to half a dozen visits and no more.
I thought it was a good read, well written but I have to side with Freeride- a little overblown in my books.
down and out in paris and london?
Curious...how was it "very New York Times"?
I don't read it so don't know. I've got a subscription to the New Yorker and its main contributors have a distinctive, recognisable style, yet it's not all like that piece.
So what's distinctive about the NYT style?
This will give you background Stu.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/04/a-woke-civil-war-is-simmering-at...
What I meant was NYT is the bastion of woke journalism and that article read like a checklist with every woke bullet point checked off.
A Dad with liberal values (stayed behind in racially mixed suburbs during white flight) who made his boys watch cowboy movies to inculcate masculine values......I mean, come the fuck on!
Thats pure make believe to illustrate toxic masculinity at work.
the more I think about it, the more I think it was made up to satisfy a pre-ordained agenda.
I kinda think NYT articles (and of course I'm limited to what drops into my sphere) tend to be longer, more flowery or verbose if you will, kinda aimed at your middle-class Americans.
Gosh, you kinda got me there- I can't quite articulate what I'm trying to say.
It's just the vibe you know.
Chook- ski resort central British Columbia. Not down and out- beer money.
Mebbe we've got different interpretations, but I don't consider that a 'woke' piece. The thought never really crossed my mind while reading it, and even upon reflection I'm not sure how it's considered that way.
It read no more than a hard-boiled Steven Biddulph, who I could imagine arriving at a similar conclusion dissecting the various male tropes, albeit via a literal path.
Actually, is Biddulph woke?
Get the feeling some people bristle at the term toxic masculinity - perhaps because it's been overused? hijacked maybe? - but for mine it exists, it's a thing, it's just much more complex than is given credit and that author at least had the gumption to dig around in his past and explore it.
Fuck, maybe I'm woke and not awake to it?
Over-used and given far too much explanatory power imo.
the bigger problem going forwards may be something of the reverse: teenagers, boys and girls are having less sex than ever in a world where every thought, feeling and impulse is highly mediated through social media.
this is having extremely deleterious effects on mental health.
I see that every day.
It's a fcuking epidemic and it's way more scary than a bloke who feels guilty because his wife did the dishes while he hid in the shed.
Really, that article could have been written in two sentences.
why did my cousin beat me up.
toxic masculinity.
I think Biddulph was pre-woke. Or maybe just ahead of his time.
I agree with Free- it's a fucking minefield for kids these days.
Japan is a classic example. 40 year old virgin isn't a stretch anymore, it's a sad reality.
Saw an interesting reversal of that the other day FR with father and two late-teen sons.
Middle aged dad is totes woke, everything is misogynist toxic masculinity and if the two boys don't agree then they're right-wing.
Late-teen boys are actually very measured, moderate and analytical and deeply resent dad's hardline stance.
I can only suspect that there's a wider backlash to #woke
Yeah, I agree too, but as Steve says "moving forwards". It's a youth issue that'll soon bloom into adulthood.
Have it cunts