Gnaraloo Station Included In Large Green Energy Proposal
Paul Richardson nearly fell off his chair after opening his mail to find his iconic Gnaraloo Station could be developed into an industrial hub.
The station borders a UNESCO World Heritage site and could soon be home to giant wind turbines and solar panels as the push for green hydrogen becomes a reality in Western Australia. Moreover, the proposal is spruiked to be one of the biggest green hydrogen projects in Australian history.
However, the prospect is not confined to Mr Richardson's property — the Gascoyne region has been dubbed the sweet spot for renewable energy generation, which has taken the interest of billionaire Andrew Forrest. And the surrounding hype has possibly prompted Fortescue Metals Group to throw its hat in the ring.
This year his company, Fortescue Metals Group, has been busy applying for a plethora of exploration licenses in the same region. On July 5, the company pegged an area spanning about 400 kilometres north to south in the same vicinity. They begin at Wooramel, which is 260 kilometres south of Gnaraloo, and extend as far north as Yannarie, which is about 400 kilometres worth of land as the crow flies.
Remaining undisclosed as to whether the prospected land is for renewables, experts are certain it will be. FMG has not confirmed whether they are looking for a green hydrogen production site.
However, experts claim it would make perfect sense.
The Ningaloo Coast is known for its optimal climate conditions, but above its banks blow favourable wind patterns and mining company Province Resources has the front seat. Its $15 billion HyEnergy project aims to capture the resource and is planned to co-exist on pastoral leases just north of Carnarvon, about 900 kilometres north of Perth.
Province Resources CEO David Frances said it was an opportunity for Western Australia to be a leading force in the clean, green energy sector.
"We looked everywhere over Australia and kept coming back to Carnarvon as the best place to generate renewable energy," Mr Frances said. "We intend to put in wind turbines, a small amount of solar, and then a hydrogen production facility. It will be in the top three biggest green hydrogen projects for Australia."
A mud map of Province Resources' HyEnergy Project that is proposed for the Gascoyne region in Western Australia (Province Resources)
The location is ranked fourth in Western Australia for mean wind speeds, the natural solar resource averaged 211 sunny days a year, and there is potential to extract sea water for an electrolyser plant.
Mr Frances said the project would provide 24-hour generation, enabling both domestic and international opportunities.
"The state government wants to see 10 per cent green hydrogen in the Dampier–Bunbury pipeline by 2030, which we would be able to feed into so that target is reached. The Port of Carnarvon would also offer several means to export offshore."
A large amount of mining tenement applications from FMG Resources - a subsidiary of Forrest's empire - showed future exploration in the Gascoyne was imminent. In January, Forrest took the nation by surprise as he championed the idea of green hydrogen via the ABC Boyer Lectures.
Confessing to generating more than two million tonnes of greenhouse gasses every year, the iron ore magnate said he was ready to go green. "The board and I decided that Fortescue would be the first mover," Forrest said. "Our final aim is 1,000 gigawatts of zero-emissions energy."
"We aim to start building Australia's first green steel pilot plant this year, with a commercial plant in the Pilbara — powered entirely by green electricity from wind and solar — in the next few years."
A few months later, FMG Resources applied for 56 exploration licences across the Gascoyne in one day.
A map of mining exploration applications from Province Resources (Blue) and FMG Resources (Red) from Land Track Maps, a database that shows all Australian mining tenement boundaries (Next Small Cap/Land Tracker)
Fortescue CEO Elizabeth Gaines said that, upon the licences being granted, Fortescue was entitled to explore the area for minerals.
"No timeframe is confirmed for exploration activities at this stage," Ms Gaines said. "Western Australia is well positioned to be at the forefront of the global renewable hydrogen industry and we are considering the future potential for renewable resources across [the state]."
After thirty years working in energy storage, Curtin University professor Craig Buckley said he believed renewable hydrogen was on the cusp of becoming a reality. His expertise has seen him appointed as the Australian representative for hydrogen at the International Energy Agency and the head of the Future Energy Exports CRC program.
Buckley said that, because the cost of renewable energy has dropped dramatically in the past ten years, it was now a hot topic.
"The cost has come down so much in price that it is now favourable to do it," Buckley said. "What the HyEnergy Project is proposing is realistic. It's certainly in the ballpark."
Assessing Fortescue's recent tenement applications, Buckley said the prospect of a future green hydrogen production site could not be ruled out.
"I know FMG has pushed really hard on hydrogen in the last two years, making their intentions known that they are going forward with green hydrogen energy," Buckley said. "The way that they'll produce their hydrogen at the present time — and it would be best to ask them because it is better to get it from the horse's mouth — but I would say they would be using electrolysis.
"Therefore, they are going to need a lot of renewable energy to do that and where those current tenement applications are situated, it would be good spot for sure."
For Paul Richardson, the pastoralist whose land is at stake, he welcomed renewable energy but said due process was imperative.
"To propose something at Gnaraloo, you are really [targeting] one of the highest-profile heritage places of the whole west coast," Richardson said. "We are national and world heritage listed, and we've got the Ningaloo Marine Park — you couldn't get anywhere more ecologically sensitive.
"The idea of this is to save the planet — but you are going to destroy what you are trying to save in the first place."
Richardson has spent the past fifteen years running low-intensity pastoral activities on his land, while maintaining a rugged getaway that is visited by thousands of surfers every year.
The Gnaraloo business model is dependent on tourism, which Mr Richardson feared was at risk if the project went ahead.
"It would destroy it completely," he said. "Again, it is only in the planning stages, but what's come across my desk is that the wind turbines would be 100 storeys high. Picture 400 of them: There goes your wilderness"
"That's not even taking into account the damage that will be done by building something like this, foundations, footings, access roads, power transfer through cables and an on-site plant."
"Next minute, you wipe out the 40,000 visitors that come and stay at the coast."
// JAMES LIVERIS
© Australian Broadcasting Corporation. All rights reserved.
Comments
Not saying "400, 100 storey high wind turbines" wouldn't be a blight on the skyline but old mate's got a cheek talking about damaging the fragile environment. Gnaraloo station has been over grazed and smashed by goats to the brink of desert for years. 3 Mile camp itself is a disgrace. There's no land management whatsoever. Don't even get me started about the tip!
Had the same thought!
Definitely. The pristine bit is not on land. Most of the area a few steps from the shoreline has been mistreated for ages.
Yep
Lake McLeod is right there next to gnraloo, the biggest inland mangrove site in the southern hemisphere. Hundreds of thousands of migratory birds use this every year. It been kept quite by Rio tinto for years.
Agree.
Station owners should be given the boot.
Whilst I totally agree with the above comments, let’s not lose sight of the bigger picture here.
Twiggy is human filth. He already has more money than he could spend in 100 lifetimes, yet here he is poised to desecrate one of the best parts of our planet. Whilst everything Twiggy does is couched under a green wash veneer, this is about export dollars straight into his pocket and the environment will be trammelled so just he can build a slightly larger throne for his ego.
Greed on this scale is a mental illness and should be recognised as such. Twiggy should be in a padded cell with his belt and shoelaces confiscated, not granted oversized control over our democracy.
Agree 100%. Seen him a lot in the media talking up his love for this area based on his time spent here in his youth. Well between this, and the luxury resort he's converting the Lighthouse Caravan Park into, he's doing his best to ensure future generations won't have access to the same experiences he had.
as much as id like to agree with these comments. Can we ask ourselves for a second if it could be good for the global environmental welfare exporting green energy allowing other countries to reduce their footprint but may not have the technology and money in place to undertake projects of this scale. Australia leaves a lot of problems to other parts of the world like us importing their textiles but often we dont take responsibility ourselves
It's a good point, it's more the choice of location that's a worry. He's already shown how desperate he is to build high end tourism developments in the Ningaloo region and there has to be some concern this is a way to open up the area for further development. If the genuine interest was just about exporting green energy, why not extend the existing renewable infrastructure around Geraldton? No shortage of wind and sun there, and there's an actual port (as opposed to the "Carnarvon Port" mentioned in the article, which I assume is just the Rio salt mining terminal at Cape Cuvier).
From the article :
“Fortescue CEO Elizabeth Gaines said that, upon the licences being granted, Fortescue was entitled to explore the area for minerals”
Twiggy is also trying to set up a mine on the Eastern shore of the Exmouth gulf. The man is scum.
Willibutler- Have you spent any time on this coast?
Yep Blowin. My eybrows lifted when I read FMG would have permits to explore 400? plus locations in the area for minerals. On one hand the they are talking green emissions and on the other possibly digging, drilling and blasting holes? Defies environmental care for my thinking.
Over here in Vicco, one corageous MP is petitioning to stop oil exploratrion/production at 12 apostles. Money Pigs are going nuts.
All this stuff is happening while many Australians are locked in their houses.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/andrew-twiggy-forrest-to-pull-...
Twiggy building an LNG import terminal at Port Kembla to import our own gas after the East coast gas cartel exports it all to Asia , then we buy it all back at huge expense after shipping it backwards and forwards for thousands of kilometres. So environmentally conscious!
Blame the federal government for that. They refuse to put a domestic gas reservation policy in place for the east coast gas market. It has proven quite successful in WA. Twiggy is building that plant to upgrade to hydrogen to supply the east coast as a he ramps up production. If he does not bring LNG in from WA, then the feds will allow open slather on fracking in the Pilliga Forest and other east coast areas.
Sorry, but for all his past sins, Twiggy has put almost all of his significant wealth on the line to save the planet. He wants to produce 15 Million tonnes of green hydrogen by 2030. That much hydrogen will require 2 to 3 times the whole of Australia's current electricity generation capacity. Just think about that. Yes that means large isolated areas with good wind and solar resources will need to be developed in a responsible fashion. No one will have more influence over Australia's ability to meet net zero emissions than Twiggy.
Twiggy had plans to frack the shit out of the Kimberly till it met huge public opposition. Yeah…Twiggy is a Green God sent to save Gaia!
Twiggy is building more and more units next to the Ningaloo reef with plans to fly high end tourists around the state to different venues of amusement. Twiggy is like a Green Thumbed Thor.
His Lighthouse Eco Resort hasn't gone anywhere since closing in 2019 (except for a brief opening in 2020 for a few months). Without knowing the plans, its most probably a 2 to 3 year construction period but he's waiting for the new Twiggy Highway around the back of the resort to be built before he commences so his guests can have direct beach access without crossing a road. Or it could be the helipad/refuelling approval at the resort so he can shuttle his high end CCP mates to and from one of his stations in the area. He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy and a right greedy firker selling it under the "eco" banner and most people including governments have brought into it.
Fucken aye
Not only is he trying fuck over Gnaraloo, he's also close to getting his way at Exmouth
Well said Blowin , have a look at the exploration licence he recives with this proposal , it may lead to more fracking or mineing :(
WOW DIDNT KNOW THIS WAS GOING ON. RICH PEOPLE NEVER HAVE ENOUGH MONEY GREEDY
Some people are so poor , all they have is money.
BOB MARLEY
Gotta be better than burning coal right?
That's what I thought.
only 40,000 caravans up there atm. fuck twiggy
There’s always an angle with Twiggy. Not a great bloke
..building for "green energy in gnaraloo" is akin to "fucking for virginity"..I hate twiggy an A-Class tosspot who's not needed near an A-Class reserve - who's he kidding with his shitbox media statements, like this one...this will be ground out - please surfers unite
Those wind turbines will be bad for the local Hawks and other birds. Look at the turbines in California, hundreds of dead birds every day.
Great point! The midwest is home to a diverse range of birds. Some amazing Hawks around Gnaraloo
Lake McLeod is the biggest inland mangrove site in the southern hemisphere with hundreds of thousands of migratory birds flying in and out all year long. Why do they have to try n fuck every thing. Rio tinto being trying to keep it quite for ages.
The Dutch (I think) have done a lot of work on this. By painting one of the arms black it massively reduces bird deaths. By something around 80%.
Not any more:
https://reneweconomy.com.au/the-wind-farm-where-turbines-shut-down-400-t...
come on twiggy give us surfers a break
Never been there ( but about to in October ) but my 1st thought was why would I buy the Twigs green energy when I can install batteries and be self sufficient from the same sun? Then I thought maybe it's more for industrial usage which sucks electricity by the gigawatt.
Whatever the reasoning for this location I respect those ( locals not billionaires ) that know their region and what's best for them.
Sad news. Unique part of the world best left as it is....
Lots of opinions on Twiggy's character, but remind me again why it's a bad idea to use wind and solar to split water in to the cleanest fuel there is and ship it to the rest of the world instead of coal?
And not that there aren't ecological impacts to consider, but why wouldn't you put it in a relatively - relatively - barren, remote place where the wind always blows and the sun always shines?
It would be a good place for it except for the fact that there are a lot of beautiful Hawks and other birdlife in the area. Wind turbines are known for killing birdlife. check it out in California.
Hey groundy, the impact on birdlife has been considerably overblown, have a look at the fact-checked commentary below. The numbers are insignificant compared to those killed by feral animal populations and even the displacement caused by other types of energy sources.
https://theconversation.com/wind-farms-are-hardly-the-bird-slayers-theyr...
Fuck off twiggy ya stupid cunt
I second that motion.
whilst FMG fifo has given more than enough for WA surfers to undertake our lifestyle - this proposal is not good
We know the climate is changing, we know we need to do something drastically different and this proposal is just that. Twiggy wanker or not, if the Australian public does not support projects like this then how are we going to get the climate back to normal? Large scale renewable energy will have minimal impacts on the marine environment. Im all for
Are the same people who paddle out to no drilling for oil in the bight now going to paddle out for no transition to renewable energy on the coast?
Not a fan of Twiggy or any mining magnate, however any sentiment or opinion related towards development on that specific coast (around Gnaraloo) should be pointed directly at Province Resources who hold the exploration tenements there. Along with their proposed hydrogen plant, they also hold exploration tenements in the area for Potash, Salt and Min Sands.
It appears that Twiggy is pegging exploration licenses around the Dampier - Bunbury pipeline from the Gascoyne Northward. To the North, the Fortescue River gas pipeline runs east (off the DBP) and fuels the Solomon hub (FMG Iron Ore Mines). The lifespan of the BDP (as a gas pipeline) has been slashed however there’s feasibility studies underway looking at how hydrogen can be introduced to the feedstock of the pipeline. Should the pipeline infrastructure transition in some way to hydrogen, Twiggy would have secured an enormous landholding of exploration tenements close to the pipeline (future hydrogen plant?). He would also be well on the way to powering the Solomon hub on hydrogen.
The DBP and any other steel construction pipeline cannot have more than 10 % hydrogen. Anymore can cause hydrogen embrittlement. There is major logistical issues transporting hydrogen as a gas. There are many other operators looking at blue hydrogen and are looking to secure some of this 10% so i cant see it getting off the ground.
Gotcha,
In context of Gnaraloo, I was more pointing to the fact that (after looking on gov website) that FMG (Twiggy) tenements are nowhere near Gnaraloo. If anything they’re late to the party on getting the coastal tenements, however are picking up tenements in specific locations inland along the DBP - Ie the junction of where DBP heads off to Carnarvon.
Fair point but Twiggy's still a cunt and only out to line his pockets even further than they already have been. If you believe he is doing it for the good of the planet then you're misguided.
Twiggy is borrowing money to develop resources on commonwealth land. He does not personally possess the ability to develop these resources and must employ others to do the work. He harvests all the profits.
The government can borrow money more cheaply than Twiggy. The government can employ those workers Twiggy would have employed. The government already controls the commonwealth land. Profits would generate wealth for all Australians.
Please tell me how or why Twiggy becomes part of this conversation?
Agreed. It should be a government project, not run by a listed company.
Everything you said is true Blowin, but Twiggy becomes part of this conversation because the government won't.
The other day ScoMo was saying they backed a "technology based solution" to climate change, which I take to mean that they will do nothing and hope the market fixes it.
I don't have any problem with capitalists - including Twiggy - investing in clean energy and profiting from it. It's probably the only viable path to sustainable energy we have in this country right now. I'd just prefer the government pulled the right levers to make it happen sooner rather than later and regulated it well at the same time.
I don't entertain the possibility that any Australian government for the foreseeable future would directly build and run all our major renewable projects for the benefit of all Australians.
What do tbe local blackfellas reckon?
That's a good question.
Hydrogen plant creates the business offset.
Whilst creating a cover or smokescreen for the real aim mining.
Think about the energy source they all want ? It ain’t green.
Blowin has it sussed correctly.
If it’s so profitable, why doesn’t the government run it and directly profit putting money back into our community as a whole? I know a very smart guy who said if Australia ran the mines and distributed profit to citizens, then we would all be millionaires. So who is really pulling the strings? Whose interests are these ‘governments’ really representing? A few of their rich mates, or the whole population? Apart from my ‘conspiracy concerns’ though which will not be solved in my lifetime, I’m all for clean energy and hope for that, so long as it’s done respectfully and responsibly for the environment and including due respect given to aboriginal cultural sites. If it’s two devils I’ve got to pick from, then I’d prefer to pick one that helps the planet rather than one that wrecks it. These individuals/and companies they own have far too much money and power - the future of humanity is actually on the chopping block - the recent Climate Report has underlined this showing irreversible serious destruction to our planet and the countless loss of species and biodiversity. These rich guys can’t be given an open cheque to decide everyone’s future because they’ve inherited a fortune - it’s not fair or right. Their number one obligation to profit - written into the corporations law - may not always align well with other imperatives like caring for the environment and the planet. If Twiggy is fair dinkum about clean energy and not covering for other dirtier schemes then I wish him well. It just makes me worry when so much power is concentrated in so few hands/decision makers. We talk democracy like it means we all get an equal say - but in reality we don’t. The real picture is much more complicated and the mega wealthy have a far disproportionate influence over what does or does not happen in our constitutional democracy. The governments and community should be very careful and open in scrutinising their activities. Unbridled greed won’t help even the richest if they destroy the planet. It might make them ‘richer’ in their lifetime but how good can they really feel about themselves if they destroy the world for their kids or their kids’ kids…something has to be done sometime about redressing too high concentration of money and power in too few hands…
putting in wind turbines will not stop surfers from coming to gnaraloo
I’ve visited gnarloo once - it’s something special - I would March against this proposal,
I paddled out against the oil in the bight
... but I live in sydney and feel the gas platforms proposed off the east coast may be something we have to accept -
none of these feelings based on more than a bit of reading and gut feel - I think that makes me a reverse nimby but there’s something remarkable about remote Australian coasts - that kind of solitude is rare and I’m + 1 for trying to protect them
I say leave it alone.
Not near Ningaloo.
The reef is too delicate, pristine and magnificent. You don't understand unless you've done time there. Sure, the landscape looks like the surface of mars, but, in my opinion, it boils with life after dark and has it's own special merit.
Apart from trading money for essentials, it's worthless. If another couple of billion in your account makes you feel better, Twiggy, I feel sorry you. Maybe you can fuck off into space with Musk, Bezos and Branson, have a sausage party up there while waiting for the dust to settle once The Blue Planet goes to hell.
News Flash (not Murdoch's) it's not going to come-good for a thousand years once she's cracked. And there's no planet-b. If people could get it through their skulls that the answer is to stop consuming, using and wasting. Then there's no need for so much energy.
"And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder (earthquake)
One of the four beasts saying,
'Come and see.' and I saw, and behold a white horse" (cresting wave)
Johnny Cash - When the Man Comes Around.
"Bucky coined the phrase "Spaceship Earth" to describe our planet. He felt that all human beings were passengers on Spaceship Earth, and, like the crew of a large ship, people had to work together in order to keep the planet functioning properly.
Hey Twiggy, check out 'Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth" Buckminster Fuller, 1969.
Have a great day.
Damo
Government project ??????? - have you guys been watching the governments they are into backing the fossil fuel industry, approving more gas extraction etc etc. They steadfastly refuse to even set meaningful targets or policy settings to encourage green energy.
No fan of Twiggy but the sooner I can drive the green hydrogen fueled 4WD to Gnarloo the sooner we have a chance of keeping the impacts of Climate Change under control.
Hi crew > a few adds for Friday, thoughts for you to mull - over the weekend:
1. The Protect Ningaloo campaign peeps (https://www.protectningaloo.org.au/) have been very successful in 2021. This organisation is on its 2nd round of successful protests - about 20 years apart - Tim Winton is a major driver (in the background). I'd be seriously keen to approach their CEO, Paul Gamblin, of this organisation (whom I know) to develop a dialogue about how best to piggy-back their success and protest this Twiggy proposal in a respectful way, a way that garners the support of the general public, as well as for the benefit of the surfers of Gnaraloo - our elders past, present and emerging are all encouraged to join.
Anyone else at Swellnet, its long-term subscribers, or the peeps who did the successful campaign in SA interested in getting on board - to take direct action?
2. I did two trips to NW WA this winter. It was complete chaos up there this year, which I'd attribute to CV19 for a variety of convergent reasons. The year before, 2020, was the most crowded I've seen it (since my first trip in '84) - but 2021, was 50% more crowded than 2020? I totally get and empathise with the pressure on all of us surfers - no Indo, etc - but some people up there this year had no idea how to respect the precious enviornment that they are in; rather they bought an angry, big-city vibe. I had 8, 18 year old innocent and charming kids staying with me from Bondi, en route to NW WA.
I'm not gonna preach but it's pretty uncool when you see people up there this year go into Carnarvon, get 2 weeks of packaged food, imagine all that packaging "disappear's" as it does in the city and then you see bits of food packaging flying around everywhere? Lollie wrappers in the Tombstones line-up? Faaark? Some people just don't get the idea that NW WA is, and should always be, a place where "you take only your memories and leave only your footprints" As corny as that sounds, it's right on for me.
BTW, having turned 18 in '78, I remain more of an angry punk than a washed-up hippy; so I've no delusions of grandeur, in terms of driving a real campaign up there. Id like to think of myself as all-inclusive, professionally capable and efficient too.
Is anyone out there in Swellnet land keen to kick this campaign off with me?
RR
Protect Ningaloo is onto this already.
Jon B > you sure "Protect Ningaloo is onto this already"? nothing on their website? I've been watching the relevant news feeds since your post, 1 month ago now > nothing has come across my desk? Please share links to the campaigns that are up and running on this issue? > RR
They are. Not everything happens in the public forum.
I'm meeting up with Paul Gamblin to discuss what they're doing within Protect Ningaloo on this issue and in context thought you may have intel I could share? Obviously, being their patch they are aware of the mining tenements lodged - but the question I'm asking you, or any other surfers is: who, if anyone, has an activitist campaign up and running?
Some interesting views already with some having a go at Twiggy and others as they are rich . He does not need to borrow money . He did borrow a lot to get FMG built !!
The mining industry has been Australia's saviour and built our wonderful county ( think gold in the early days ) . Employs heaps and brings in heaps of money ( royalties and taxes ) . Iron ore and Met Coal is the foundation of getting things built in undeveloped countries . Ignorant people fail to understand this money pays for important things like the NDIS and welfare . Seems too many are jealous of others success .
Hydrogen energy sounds a very good option at the moment for base load energy . I applaud anyone who is helping its development . Much better than stupid wind mills !!! Hope the eagles and other appex birds look out .
FMG pegging all this area is NOT for hydrogen production . You don't need THAT much area . They are a miner looking to diversify their business away from the reliance of Fe .
Those who argue that our East coast gas SHOULD not go to the groups who PAID for the project by signing binding off take agreements are ignorant and do not believe any contract should be honoured .
I wrote a thread in support of fracking which explains how this process works .
Protect Ningaloo at ALL costs .
But also do not let our mining be handcuffed in areas where it can be done without causing too much damage , The environmental and heritage processes are VERY thorough .
You sound like you have a shiteload of FMG shares
None Quokka . Or BHP and RIO .
Fe prices are still too high ( recently fallen from $US 200 p/t to around $US 150 ) for my liking and too many people have bought them in recent times for the dividends . I never buy ( or advise to buy ) a company for div's alone .
Even with the big recent pull back in share prices I think it better to wait . China is hosting the Winter Olympics early next year . They have recently ordered Steel Making provinces to lower production to lower air pollution .
They would have planned this a long time ago so suspect they would have done all the steel making they need in preparation . This is only my opinion so suggest you don't listen to me .
“ The environmental and heritage processes are VERY thorough .“
Classic
They are Blowin . Government departments that LIVE to find ANYTHING that can delay or stop every project . Companies need to get their approval to fart during every part of the process eg to walk on the lease and do anything , pre feasibility , feasibility , bankable feasibility etc . If they EVER get to the stage of building a project companies also have to comply eg RIO blowin up heritage sites .
I have lots of problems how these regulators do their jobs and they DO make mistakes ( rarely in favour of the companies ) .
"We talk democracy like it means we all get an equal say - but in reality we don’t. The real picture is much more complicated and the mega wealthy have a far disproportionate influence over what does or does not happen in our constitutional democracy. The governments and community should be very careful and open in scrutinising their activities. "
Governments have been proven the world over to NOT be able run anything efficiently . In a democracy you often get a change in govt and views . Not real good for long term planning !
With a PM the power is very concentrated . Anyone can become a mining magnate as Twiggy has proved . He didn't inherit the right or the money .
Leave it to private industry and ensure regulations MAKE them do it properly .
Well down at the bottom of this very intense debate. To me the answer is clear: forget who is putting up the wind turbines and solar panels. If we carry on one more week of the kind of carbon pollution that Australia is contributing famously to the Global meltdown. Our grand-kids aren't going to be contributing to anything like this discussion if we go on with coal and gas. Scomo is famous globally for his Carbon myopia and sleazy prevarication. Australia is the best country in the world, currently infamous as the near-worst carbon polluter relative to population . I'm off to Ningaloo in a week or two. I'd willingly see wind turbines everywhere for the sake of the planet's and Australia's kids. EG Lanzarote... got used to the wind turbines after one surf trip. Windy and a desert climate. Perfect sense.
rob - temperatures are increasing and the climate is changing . Demonizing plant food ( it is CO2 and not carbon ) or methane is ridiculous and costing trillions and causing distress to children .
Earth's atmosphere is composed of about 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen, 0.9 percent argon, and 0.1 percent other gases. Trace amounts of carbon dioxide, methane, water vapor, and neon are some of the other gases that make up the remaining 0.1 percent.22 Oct 2019
Without knowing it could be nitrogen , oxygen and argon that are causing Global Warming and not the many other factors like the sun . Maybe they should be demonised as CO2 ( plant food ) ? . Just in case I will try and breath more today .
Wow Hutchy you are seriously questioning the science behind climate change based on CO2 being only a small part of the overall atmosphere and no evidence or research to support.
I'm offended that you think the good folk at swellnet would swallow such gabbage.
Hang on I get it your having a laugh!
Why does no one talk about Concentrated Solar (Thermal) Power. Maybe because it really would provide a viable alternative and fuck the frackers, hole digging fanatics and overly industrial "solution" proponents. Have a look at this:
https://vastsolar.com/
Aussie mob ready to go.
QLD are spending $600M on a Vast project to power Mt Isa. Might be something in it
At 400 parts per million it is not a small part it is almost non existent . Have a look at Vanta Black ( reflects 400 parts p/m of light ) if you want a visual feel .
We have the sun and its changes in output due to its long term and short term cycles, wobbles in the earth causing Ice Ages , El Niño's and La Nina's , ocean currents , roads and cities , changes in sea temps etc etc effecting temps and people think that a beautiful , non toxic , clear , plant feeding food gas which is .0004% ( check my maths as I am being quick as the footy is about to start ) of the atmosphere is the devil that causes the planet to over heat and we ALL are gonna die .
Computer models that have difficulty predicting the weather next month .
Poor children having the shit scarred out of them .
I do find it slightly hard to believe . You can , no problems .
Mother earth ( who I believe loves all animals and plants that suckle from her ) would not really be feeling it after what she has felt for the last 4-5 BILLION years . She will even have trouble remembering us when we eventually become extinct . Will see NO sign of our presence after a few thousand years . A second in her time . Look how she has recovered after Chernobyl .
I have done my own research and am no expert , just have an open mind and do not rely of The Age for all my views as some of the good folk at Swellnet do .
Interesting energy solution MartinNow. I went past a huge similar solar setup in California years ago. Sucker hurt your eyes when you looked at the central tower CSP receiver. The thermal storage in the new tech aussie version adds real potential.
Far flung towns with costly network connections seem to be home of leading edge on renewables. Below is link to green hygrogen microgrid in WA that is even getting $ from the federal government to kick it off.
https://utilitymagazine.com.au/wa-to-house-australias-first-remote-micro...
Glad to see we are basically in agreement that twiggy is a twat.
Hatch that's enough mate.
Anyone with an inkling of understanding of the true cost of mine rehabilitation realises the bulk of this is paid by the taxpayer while the profits go to the enterprise. Has always been the case
Gold is a classic one hutch. More than 150 years since gold was discovered in north east Victoria the taxpayer is still grappling and paying in millions for its legacy throughout Victoria.
But I don’t expect you to understand or even appreciate this even if I told you about 120 year old sand slugs working their way down our rivers and what this means.
Gold IS a classic one Bonza . The industry that built Melbourne . Brought in Billions ( and still does especially around Bendigo ) . Taxpayers and employees ARE still benefiting from its legacy throughout AUSTRALIA .
Would love to hear about the sand SLUGS Bonza as always happy to check out anything new . It could be a really big slimy problem ?
Was intrigued so did some basic research on slugs . For those that are unaware Bonza and I only seem to agree on one thing . Surfing is great .
Our first disagreement was that I believed that the Mitchell River in Vic should be dammed . We have a desal plant 40 or so kilometers away which sucks up salt water when every 2-5 years the river floods . The floods are very violent causing damage to the local infrastructure . It also causes damage to flaura and fauna especially the hatcheries growing fish , frogs , prawns etc .
Bonza believes that the major flood is necessary for a healthy river system .
He could not work out why I was negative on wind farms ( killing of apex birds and don't work when the wind is soft and strong ) and positive on a dam . I did ask him to name on species of plant that would be negatively affected ( not where the dam causes water ) and he said Red Gum . He did give numerous fish etc but I don't think any lived in the Mitchell eg Murray Cod .
I believe a gentle / positive flood would provide all the positives and no major negatives . Think Cubic's of Plenty in ancient Egypt .
A slug , I have discovered , is a build up of silt /shit causing disruption to the flow of a river . Not a slimy creature . Causes are varied and can be natural and related to human activities .
A simple question Bonza . If the Mitchell River has had violent floods every 5 years why have they not stopped the formation of the slugs and been able to flush the slugs which as you say can be 120 years old ? If they are unable to do this what can ? The report I read did not even mention the Mitchell .
Considering the below why are you highlighting slugs and their relationship to dams ?
As indicated in Section 5.1.2, there is evidence to suggest that the front of the sand slug in Creightons
Creek has not moved a significant distance downstream in the last decade. Yet the bedload transport
rates measured in the creek suggest that even at low flow (winter–spring) there is substantial sand
migration, and these rates would be expected to be substantially higher in high flow events. To
reconcile these two apparently conflicting pieces of evidence, the potential of Creightons Creek to
mobilise and transport sand was investigated.
my comment was not about this topic windfarm. i don't know the issues or land but i really appreciate the knowledgeable comments above.
you made a comment above re mining industry being the saviour of the country without, in my view appreciating the on-going costs on the taxpayer and environment of those riches.
Each catchment and waterway is different but here is a general answer to your question for your simple mind. The Mitchell River ( to a lesser extent compared to others) and its catchment like many in Victoria have been sluiced and dredged to oblivion for gold. Imagine a landscape bombed by napalm because that is what it looked like for many victorian creeks and rivers. As a result the gold mining industry released billions of cubic metres of sediment into victorian waterways that otherwise would have been secured by natural vegetation on our flood plains You may think the landscape has recovered (not you figuratively - its pretty clear you don't leave your safe urban pillow) if you walked along any victorian creeks and rivers.
but it hasn't.
what you are walking along is sludge. about 12ft deep of shit that 150 odd years ago was actually deep below the bed. Now what you have along our creeks and banks is loose unconsolidated sediment that a good flow will cut through like a hot knife through butter.
furthermore when sediment builds up (slugs) up in our rivers and creek, more water is forced to flow through alternative flow paths through the floodplain. this leads to deepening and widening and new flowpaths. i.e flooding. that you want to fix with a dam you simple man.
at the time landholders and waterway managers introduced willows to help stabilse the banks - they didn;t know the problems this would cause. we do now. but still there are many who don't appreciate the harm and management required. if you know what a willow is its probs because youv'e sat under one in Melbourne and the 1 and only farmer you ever met back on your road trip in the 80's 's probably told you how a good a willow is.
Now each year since the last dredge packed up and left in the 50's/60's the taxpayer spends literally millions of dollars each year trying to stabilise our waterways in victoria.
every year.
but all of this will be over you head so I'll make it simple for you.
channel erosion and flooding is natural but the legacy of gold mining has meant that when a flood comes through for many victorian waterways the impact is intensified because the banks are a pile of loose shit, blocked up with willows.
hutch if your trying to sound like a dumb shit its working.
Thanks for your response Bonza .
Very typical of all your responses . Filled with contradictions , fabrications , falsifications and ABUSE .
At least you are consistent . As you say my knowledgeable comments and simple mind find your posts wonderful to respond to .
Like your advice to new home buyers who ca not afford to buy in inner cities . Borrow as MUCH as you can on 30 year loans but don't move to the outer suburbs . With house prices at record highs , interest rates at record lows and unemployment low . As I said what could go wrong in this new covid world .
For a start . There was no gold in the Gippsland region . Life is about cost/benefit . Gold ( and mining in general ) has and continues to build Australia .
Yes we pay pay millions to repair the damages caused by mining and over time we have learnt to do this better . Mining has brought in Trillions in the past and Billions each year .
I will not abuse you as I do not want to give you the ammo to AGAIN call me strawman .
Its is time for this " simple man " to get back to work ( might call a farmer ) .
This comment gave me extra insight into your personality and ability to debate .
. if you know what a willow is its probs because youv'e sat under one in Melbourne and the 1 and only farmer you ever met back on your road trip in the 80's 's probably told you how a good a willow is.
.
Sorry Bonza . Re read your post the you obvioulsly put a lot of thought into and have another question re your comment below .
Now each year since the last dredge packed up and left in the 50's/60's the taxpayer spends literally millions of dollars each year trying to stabilise our waterways in victoria.
every year.
Why has the millions us taxpayers pay each year not fixed the problems created by the dredges 60 years ago ? Please do not tell me it is ANOTHER example of us taking so called expert advice which has had no effect as they have NFI .
Take it to another forum guys, this article is about Gnaraloo.
Here's my take.
PRL will do a deal with Total Eren and form a 50/50 'Green' Hydrogen company
PRL stock will explode higher
Eren will then build a $8bn solar farm which will be the renewable of 'Green' electricity that will be used to split sea water into it's two chemical elements of Hydrogen and Oxygen.
PRL will end up being assigned as a 'Carbon negative' Business (Note that's better than being Carbon Neutral)
PRL stock will trade even higher (just check what ASX listed 'Green Lithium' stock VUL has achieved. PRL are like 18 months behind them).
FMG will pay top dollar and takeover PRL (PRL shareholders will get FMG shares so when this happens IMO sell PRL at the cash mkt price unless you want FMG script)
They will then use the leverage from taking over PRL to use their lease holds tenements to create even more renewable energy.
that's how I see this playing out over the next 2-3 yrs (if not quicker - depends on the state of global mkts)
A Semple - had a VERY quick look at PRL .
I hope this is not a tangent seaslug ( many threads on this site go off the main topic - don't read them if they bother you ) . Thought you might have liked the SLUG tangent .
I am not giving ANY advice just a few comments based on VERY limited research .
PRL's SOP and salt deposits are miles away from FMG railway lines . I don't know the grade of SOP and salt is what is created after processing the brine . How do they get it too the coast economically ? Truck is the main option ( do they need to build roads ? ) .
Didn't look at their Mineral sands but it would seam early stage .
Hydrogen - what do they know about this ? It is in a good area to do it . What do they bring to the table to have a J/V with Eren ?
They raised money in a rights issue at .8c and did a capital raising at 1.5c and have $5m in cash .
At 14c the market cap is $160m ( does NOT include 106m performance shares and 72m other pieces of paper ) .
The themes they talk about are all attractive ( NAIF , ESG are also potential positives ) .
I will NOT do any more research into them UNLESS I hear something new .
Bonza - If seaslugs comments about tangents puts you off responding to my comment and question PLEASE put it on the Climate Change thread . REALLY looking forward to your response .
you like an argument for the the sake of an argument mate
Christie and Alice told me you and your group were right bell ends
Hows the surf been up there seaslug? been good at jakes the last few days.I hope you've scored. Nice weather here too but cant get to sleep.
Nice weather, good fishing, had a few good surfs but its been very average this year IMO mate.
Hutchy do you TALK like this in REAL life? It SOUNDS so weird when I read YOUR comments.
Sprout - maybe ? It is a new experience for me on social media and conversing with people who seem to have NFI . Happy to try and unweirdo myself if you have any tips .
Seaslug -I would like to debate more and argue less . My combative nature is hard to supress when I am abused . I do think my questions are fair and the responses ( especially from Bonza ) are often so lame they lead to more .
Haha why be normal, gave me a chuckle, good vibes mate.
Blowin. Never agreed with you in the past but you are SO spot on with this serious matter. Twiggy is a governmental manipulator, the smiling assassin type. Him and his businesses are always deflecting the public attention away from the REAL issues. He’s always been about ‘look at us, we are so good, we employ local aborigines, we take care of the environment here’, but in reality the focus is elsewhere, where gross destruction of the biological and geological world continue today. FMG smear is on most areas in the Gascoyne. Enormous tracts of land on some of or the oldest geology on the planet is ripped apart on a grand scale, already under pressure communities of plants, spinifex for example, animals etc, including the rare night parrot only recently rediscovered, thought to be extinct. Why do we continue to allow a few people to destroy Australia’s biota. The people of Western Australia need to wipe the dust from their eyes and see Twiggy Forrest for what he and his companies really are, as Blowin said, SCUM.
Bonza. Nice writing backed with knowledge. Fancy someone from the north claiming no gold in Gippsland. WTF ? I wouldn’t waste your time with Hutchy19, not the sharpest tool in the shed. I’m guessing by his archaic views on almost everything he’s from northern NSW or SE Qld by the tones of his attempt at English verse. Be careful not to ask him how he is going after he recently felt nationally disgraced by the social behaviour of aboriginal people, he’s very feeble. John Howard, Andrew Bolt lover for sure. Keep up the good work Bonza
Hello Brad .
I did go to Mullumbimby High . I was not aware that people from NNSW and SE Qld generally have archaic views . Most I know are up to date good Aussies .Where are you from ?
I do think it is a national disgrace that Aboriginal Children ( and other children ) are having such a hard time . The statistics prove it . Your words were deliberately misleading . I would guess you do this often ! I applaud the behaviour of most Aboriginals as I applaud the behaviour of most other Australians ,
Don't you also think urgent action is required ?
I was wrong as there was gold in Gippsland . Silly of me as their was gold in nearly all of Victoria . . There is no gold being mined there now as is happening north of Melb .
I hope Bonza will let us know if they have sea slugs there as I don't know how much dredging was done in the old days.
Also hoping he will let us know why us tax payers are paying millions ( as he said ) every year trying to remove the slugs that were caused decades ago . What is not working ? Maybe you can chase him up on these important answers .
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/rural-news/2022-04-06/andrew-forrest-b...
Udo > did you hear the one about the russian translator? RR
Twiggy's been a naughty boy
nice that we can have a laugh - at his expense - for a change!
Sad thing is he obviously doesn't give a f#ck...about anything or anyone. Promoting himself as a planet saver...yeah right. He's one dodgy mofo IMO.
Gotta be careful of this bloke, all shiny and shit on the outside...