John John walks from his Hurley contract

Stu Nettle
Swellnet Dispatch

Two weeks after his stablemates got the axe, John John Florence has walked out of his contract with Hurley.

The unfolding drama began in December when Hurley, who spent sixteen years cosseted to Nike's big-spending bosom, were onsold to Bluestar Alliance. Bluestar generously describe themselves as being in the business of brand management, when predatory speculating is a more apt description of their modus operandi. They buy companies, strip out excess costs, then run them at grossly inflated profits or sell them for similar.

To varying degrees, a similar process has happened over at Billabong and Quiksilver, so it should be to no-one's surprise that Hurley is now feeling the fangs of vampire capitalism.

Cutting the team roster is a simple fix for owners with no ties to surf culture. First to go were those surfers currently in negotiation, such as Michel Bourez and Rob Machado, who'd been with them twenty years, while those whose contracts were soon to expire were told to look elsewhere. In two days the Hurley team went from, what founder Bob Hurley called, "the most exciting, innovative and successful team ever in the history of surfing" to a ghost town.

For John Florence the writing was on the wall, as of 2020 Hurley was the same company in name only, so he's walked out on his contract with five years left to run. Following fourteen years with O'Neill - who signed him when he was six - Hurley first nabbed his signature in 2013, and then renewed it in 2017 for a rumoured eight year, $30 million play - the most lucrative contract in surf history, and only sustainable due to Nike's bulwark.

No-one knows the terms of JJF's exit, nor if he's being courted by other companies, but it's clear that if he signs with a surf company it'll be at a vastly reduced rate.

Also, with each of the former Big 3 in non-surf hands and Hurley on its knees, the surf industries' reckoning is almost complete.

PS: Might be time to reprise this article from last year - The Only Essential Apparel

Comments

joeyjojo's picture
joeyjojo's picture
joeyjojo commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 4:21pm

Personally, think the culling of team riders is well overdue. What $ you pay them vs ROI never really added up.
Some might have even called it an easy free ride for what they did and took for granted!

Browne Cow's picture
Browne Cow's picture
Browne Cow commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 6:00pm

Surf brands target grooms with the latest and greatest, peer group pressure then kicks in and mum and dad have to pick up the tab buying the latest board or t shirt or $120 hoodie. My ‘surfing boomer mates’ years ago started fixing dings, fixing wetties wearing non branded clothes and going back to basics and trying to get longer out of gear. Needs essentials wetties great non branded suits... if only I could convince the kids

fcalmon's picture
fcalmon's picture
fcalmon commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 4:31pm

Surf as a business is on it's way out...

90% of what you know was told to you....

TobiasK's picture
TobiasK's picture
TobiasK commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 12:32pm

Surf as a business is on its way up. And up!
Rapidly becoming very mainstream, highly corporatised and tied up in media deals. Almost every advert (in Australia) has a surf scene, from selling cars to breakfast cereals to bloody credit cards and personal insurance. Now we even have wave pools more than 100kms from the ocean, and many more to come, where a membership to surf 4 hours/month costs $3500/year!
That's why venture capitalists and hedge funds are buying the brands up - because there's cash to be made. Bulk cash to be made from people who aren't your traditional surfer, but cashed up yuppies in black SUV's. Just switch out the Ralph Lauren polo for a 'Brand X' shirt and BOOM! You're an instant surfie dude.
Humanity and ecocentrism, which 'were' at the core of the surf culture are on their way out.
What to do? Well, start your own, or support your local boutique brand that stay's true to our roots, or get yourself a Citibank credit card (coz there's a guy in the ad holding a surfboard) and buy yourself a membership to the wavepool under the flight path of a major international airport (because it's far more convenient). The choice is ours. Each of ours.

fcalmon's picture
fcalmon's picture
fcalmon commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:01pm

I hear what you are saying and agree with most of it.
All I hear is major "surf" companies either shutting down or being sold on the brink of bankruptcy. All that is left is, to me, a bubble waiting to burst. Hence my feeling that Surf as business isn't going anywhere.

Again IMHO, the ads you see with surfers are nothing but the use of an image that sells. It doesn't pay back to surfing, it only increases the crowds with more and more learners and wannabes.

IMHO you don't become a surfer, you are or you aren't. It doesn't matter what the marketing gurus are saying.

I do support a local shaper (Stuart Surfboards), I am not much into brands even though I was once sponsored by some back in the days. I do miss the days where we were seemed like aliens because we were surfers.

90% of what you know was told to you....

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 7:16pm

Humanity and ecocentrism ?

Might be time to rewatch the original Puberty Blues.

gggiiibbbo's picture
gggiiibbbo's picture
gggiiibbbo commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 4:39pm

Back to the future. Maybe surfing will come full circle and return to being a core sport with core brands selling surfers core products.

But before then, how this plays out more broadly in respect of the WSL will be interesting. How do athletes get to contests if no-one is picking up the tab? Who will sponsor events? Will Pete Mel smile? Ever?

The $50 t-shirt business plan was always doomed & good on JJF for telling the vampires to GFY.

amb's picture
amb's picture
amb commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 5:20pm

I agree good on JJF, but the Vampires have just saved themselves $10m if i reading this correct.

john.callahan's picture
john.callahan's picture
john.callahan commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 4:40pm

As Hang Ten, Jantzen and Golden Breed once were the top selling brands in the surf market, then it was Lightning Bolt, Ocean Pacific, Quiksilver, Rip Curl, Billabong, Volcom and then, almost in their own category, Hurley. Now that Hurley have effectively departed, it's an opportunity for new, dynamic, relevant brands to step up and fill the void.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 5:53pm

"Now that Hurley have effectively departed, it's an opportunity for new, dynamic, relevant brands to step up and fill the void."
It's still a cotton T shirt mate. Every brand you're mentioned sells virtually identical products. What the fuck makes a brand dynamic anyway? It's certainly not the product.
Redbull could be classified as a "dynamic" brand and they sell high sugar, highly caffeinated, undrinkable shit. If it wasn't for the action sports marketing, nobody in their right minds would drink that crap.
And before anyone says "old man yells at cloud", I've got in before you, so get fucked the lot of ya.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

seaslug's picture
seaslug's picture
seaslug commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 6:38pm

haha love it Vic Local

john.callahan's picture
john.callahan's picture
john.callahan commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 7:02pm

That is exactly what company executives get paid large salaries to figure out - how to convince people to pay $50 for what is essentially a cotton t-shirt that can be bought sans logo for $5. Endorsement is a powerful phenomenon and has sold trillions of dollars of product to otherwise rational people who not only pay an inflated price for a branded logo t-shirt, they then wear it in public, thus providing free advertising for the brand.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:29am

Yeah that red bull is rubbish, anyone over 40 can't drink it way too sweet. Had a nice young lady hand me a can at the Motogp on the island and had to spit it out. It still confounds me how red bull, volcom, etc.. can make money out of a T shirt, drink whatever. Once you get beyond your teens the sheep mentally disappears as would their market I would have thought. I mean Volcom what did they ever to or have that was worth any money? If I want to advertise something I will stick my company on a t shirt.

john.saba's picture
john.saba's picture
john.saba commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 2:58pm

hahaha well said mate.

ojackojacko's picture
ojackojacko's picture
ojackojacko commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 6:55pm

brilliant - vote 1 Vic Local

TobiasK's picture
TobiasK's picture
TobiasK commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 12:35pm

Agreed. And BTW, I just laughed so hard I think I pee'd a bit.

gsco's picture
gsco's picture
gsco commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 5:05pm

Just another reflection of a currently confused, directionless industry unable to find an identity or sustainably profitable way forward.

Seems to have started when the founders exited the industry and it was put in the hands of corporate non-surfers with no understanding of the culture and only one objective: to try to maximise short-term profits and share price in the interests of their own bonuses.

Question: Is there anyone or any entity currently making money out of the surf industry, if so who?

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 8:29pm

vans?

globe?

firewire?

seen's picture
seen's picture
seen commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 1:00am

Looked up the price of that new tomo fish thing... more expensive than a custom from my local shaper.... at least I know he’s feeding his kids with my hard earned.

NickT's picture
NickT's picture
NickT commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:11pm

I have one, it's not that good. Tail is far too wide

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 9:56pm

I bet it loves bumpy, powerful conditions as well (yeah sure). Those things are set up for smooth, hollow conditions like all his boards.

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 4:50pm

Time for Bayer pharmaceuticals to throw some money down the toilet?? Munich could be a highlight tour venue.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 5:40pm

Not as dumb as it sounds. Boomers are the market to target. They've got the creaky knees and crooked necks that need the drugs to kook out on waves they no longer have the expertise to surf properly. They can also afford airfares to transport themselves to paradise locations. The Grajagan Voltaren pro! Imagine the spectacle of our vainglorious elderly citizens headbutting shallow slabs. I'd pay to watch.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 5:48pm

You do realise icandig that you too will grow old. When that happens you may look back at your comment and think, geez I was a bit of a fuckwit when I was younger.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 6:01pm

You forget your pills today Vic? Feeling like a grumpy old man?...shit I know I do....probably more advanced in years than yourself. Take a deep breath and count to 10 young fella - good waves in your home state today. You are right on one count - I was (am still?) a bit of a fuckwit. Have a nice day.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 6:13pm

Geez icandig, you're no fun at all. I wanted a grumpy old man argument and you're wishing me a nice day. Where's the fun in that? There needs to be more hate in this forum. Where's Ringmaster when you need him?

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 8:38pm

Sorry Vic. Take comfort in the knowledge that we have a couple of things in common...oh... and get fucked. Feel better now?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 8:39pm

Thanks icandig. Very kind of you. I wish you well.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:33am

Had a good laugh at this, your talking about me! When you get there remember to laugh at yourself otherwise you will give it up.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 8:40pm

It's autobiographical Mem. Self deprecation is my fall back position. The drugs help me laugh.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 3:55pm

Again you are talking about me, especially the drugs bit! It is a giggle so hit and miss when you get nice and ripe as some days you think your ripping (your not) and other days you are a complete goose (you are).

marcus's picture
marcus's picture
marcus commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2020 at 12:49pm

that's not too far removed from discussions i had with some elastoplast reps about sponsoring the shark island challenge a few years back.

i remember the internet when it was just for intelligent people but.

Pops's picture
Pops's picture
Pops commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:17am

Can't really see JJF in front of a camera saying "Swiss ubervites (tm) help me boost big fk-off airs without turning my knees into builders' sand. That's why you'll feel better on Swiss (tm)"...

He who hesitates is lost

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 5:46pm

Care factor zero. What sort of person looks at a pro surfer and says, "Surfer X is wearing a Brand Y shirt. I think I will buy a $50 brand Y shirt, which costs $2 to make, too"?

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

seaslug's picture
seaslug's picture
seaslug commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 6:41pm

a loser that's who, never have and never will Vic Local

Oink's picture
Oink's picture
Oink commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 6:41pm

it's not necessarily that Surfer X is wearing the shirt - its that we are watching Surfer X wear that shirt and thinking "that's not a bad shirt"
I wouldn't have seen that shirt otherwise
I've seen Ronnie and Turps at times and thought "hmmm maybe I'd look as good as them in that shirt"

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:34am

But can your talk in an iron lung!

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:35am

$2? no no no. The people who make the shirts are paid $2/day (maybe), the shirts cost 20 cents.

Ash's picture
Ash's picture
Ash commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 6:14pm

"Also, with each of the former Big 3 in non-surf hands and Hurley on its knees, the surf industries' reckoning is almost complete."
Nice line. So what does the future hold for the x Hurley team, maybe stepping into the real world of hard commerce and harder negotiations?

peterb's picture
peterb's picture
peterb commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 7:18pm

feeling the fangs of vampire capitalism ...

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 7:29pm

Selfish thing to say but here's hoping the pro-surfing industry is on the way out, then it goes back to being un-popular and un-cool.
If that cuts out everyone who only surfs for the image and because its "cool", then imo thats a great thing.

seen's picture
seen's picture
seen commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 1:10am

I reckon it’s coming, around 2024. Wsl will bail or cutback after the complete hollowing out of stand up surf culture. But fear not.
Already a lot of the alternative/ underground local groms seem to be bodyboarding - it’s a pure core scene, grungy and unheralded, and compared to the wsl/instasurf/lifestyle influencer crowd that surfing is becoming, it’s got appeal for the younger gen who dont seem to be spending that much time in their phones.

ashleigh's picture
ashleigh's picture
ashleigh commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 11:06am

We can dream Goofyfoot, and pray for that day to come mate...

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 8:09pm

Please do carry on!
WSL will happily sign Voltaren's Headbutters or Bayer's Toiletries.
2020 CT Olympic Year Tour is missing 4 sponsors.

tbb commented yesterday...crew can still check here for full casualty count.
https://www.swellnet.com/news/form-guide/2019/11/07/2020-wsl-championshi...
WSL redesigned their site today to hide this embarrassing fact ...(No joke!)
Now you only see 3 month timeline instead whole year.(tbb pays that - nice job!)
https://www.worldsurfleague.com/events/2020/mct

tbb apologizes to WSL & will sort this with the Series Final of 'Ultimate Sponsor'

Margaret River Pro (Mens) 'Ultimate Sponsor' winner is Vic Local
Margaret River Pro (Womens) 'Ultimate Sponsor' winner is Ape Anonymous
Tahiti Pro Teahupoo (Mens) 'Ultimate Sponsor' winner is icandig
Hawaii Pro Honolua Bay Maui (Womens) 'Ultimate Sponsor' winner is seaslug

[disclaimer] 'Ultimate Sponsor' is not a real TV show nor the sponsors.(Example only)
tbb will surrender TV rights for VIP Olympic Surfing Tickets for whole crew & families.
Now hurry along Logan & untie Sophie from the Kirra = jet-ski = tracks.

PS: The Wave Bristol > JJF Lookalike maybe dropping a hint?
https://media.thewave.com/images/instagram-In-Stream_Square___A7Riii-12....

seaslug's picture
seaslug's picture
seaslug commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 11:06pm

I'm in TBB, last contest I sponsored was the legendary wet tea bag world titles back on the Manly Ferry in 54. It was notorious as well when I was taken out by a CWA cookbook after suggesting Earl Gray was better than Liptons.

ojackojacko's picture
ojackojacko's picture
ojackojacko commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 7:01pm

TBB on fire

this is a quality thread - kudos swellnetters

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 8:23pm

If JJF was smart he'd have a manager that would target non-surf related entities and pitch to them. Someone mentioned boomers, not that silly but certainly companies that target Gen X/Y as their core market. I'm thinking car companies, financial institutions, airlines etc.

He's a good lad John John, kids look up to him and oldies respect him. I think he's very marketable.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 8:49pm

Speaking of pharmaceuticals - medical marijuana companies are vying for your attention. A burgeoning market ready for exposure...
https://www.businessnewsaus.com.au/articles/australia-s-top-20-cannabis-...
Could be a good fit....or am I still living in the 70's?

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:02pm

There's a Colorado-based medical marijuana company called Floyd's of Leadville that sponsors a bunch of elite athletes and even sponsored a pro-cycling team for one year.
https://floydsofleadville.com/our-story/
If the name Floyd Landis doesn't ring a bell, he was one of Lance Armstrong's team mates who did more than his fair share of doping!! Maybe he needs a surfer or two as team riders?

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

brutus's picture
brutus's picture
brutus commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:08am

How about a lifetime contract with Patagonia , lot less money , but compliments JJF 's brand ?

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:13am

That would be a pretty good fit. 

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:35am

Totally! I was actually thinking the same. He loves his sailing and bee-keeping.

I reckon it would be a good fit for sure.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:36am

Nah lets get back to the real thing and go the bounty bar like Shaun.

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:41am

Why not sign with Kelly??

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:11pm

Kelly has had four years to sign someone.
Talk about egomania.
Four years........

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:16pm

Why does Kelly have to sign anyone?

Not much point unless they're going to bring new revenue to the business.

A brand sponsorship isn't a reward for ripping, it's a commercial transaction.

Someone pays you to wear their gear, they (hopefully) sell more gear as a result, and the business (hopefully) makes more money than if they hadn't paid you to wear their gear in the first place.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:30pm

If nothing else, it's curious that KS, who spent thirty-something years sponsored by other companies, now doesn't sponsor anyone.

Is that tacit denunciation of a sponsored riders worth?

lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy's picture
lostdoggy commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:41pm

Kelly gets himself for free and he doesn't rate any other surfers as highly as he does himself
:D

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:44pm

Totally. 

Though, Outerknown has never really felt like a surf brand to me, other than it belonging to Kelly. So in that respect there's no need to sponsor surfers either.

What is a surf brand these days, anyway? Plenty of non-surf brands do the things we'd previously ascribe to endemics (create apparel and/or hardware, make videos, sponsor surfers and events).

All the while, Hollister showed that the most profitable 'surf' brand was one with zero expenditure on athletes and competition.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 4:15pm

As long as its comfy and you appreciate the look it can be anything though there are a few faux pas for Aussie gents: Footy shorts at the beach never look good; the EuroSlavic tight shorts production with gold chains is a visual blight; budgy smugglers should be banned (although if you are hung like a horse the ladies will be entertained); and...........any others to add to the list?

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:07pm

Ok, firstly , I think Kelly needs to open the door for some up and coming surfers.(contests and travel aren't cheap.)
If you sell surf gear( boardies) apparel its a surf related company. I receive the OK catalogs every other month.

Kelly came from nothing. A broken home , raised by a single mum, who worked really hard to even pay the bills and rent each month.
What created the opportunity for 11 world titles? Wealth?
Sponsorship.............
Its just so Fucken mean he cannot provide another surfer with even a pair of boardies. Let alone a contract, travel budget. Gasp.... an opportunity to be pro.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 4:16pm

He still sees them as competition.

hamishbro's picture
hamishbro's picture
hamishbro commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 6:29am

Haha so true.

P'tai's picture
P'tai's picture
P'tai commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 8:54pm

Why do you kids always sling shit at we boomers? Ive spent a lifetime working to protect you, and your lifestyles. Show a bit of humility and gratitude to those who have served and protected you. I'm 60, shape my own boards, and love the thrill. JJF is a great ambassador for humility, respect and hope for the future.

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 9:26pm

OK BOOMER

knB

69longboarder's picture
69longboarder's picture
69longboarder commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 9:04pm

So here's the thing. Surfing has gone from being frowned on, to being popular and cool.
So the brands come out and capitalize on this, so we shit on them for making money, while we are still trying to be that cool surfer.
We mostly cant surf without something from their brand. EG are you making your own leggie? . I believe inside we are dirty on them making the sport VERY commercial and packing out the line up. This is your fault too though, with today's sheep mentality that we have to have the new shiny thing that is rammed down your throat through your black mirror you cant get your face out of. No wonder they are making shitloads. And don't tell me you would'nt take some of the folding stuff through your own surf brand if you had one. Go out. Get waves. Be good. Work hard. Come home and be normal. Life would be better. :)

fcalmon's picture
fcalmon's picture
fcalmon commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 9:27am

Much prefer when was frowned upon...

90% of what you know was told to you....

frog's picture
frog's picture
frog commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 9:30pm

Machado and others should be thankful for the long run of paychecks they had. Not sustainable anymore. Hope they invested some.

Frogg

alexhoch1's picture
alexhoch1's picture
alexhoch1 commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 9:32pm

Board
Wax
Wetsuit
Leash
All you need.
I’ll buy some stubbies to surf in this summer over a pair of phantoms

ASH77

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:47am

Body surfing is pretty good as well, can be done naked.
To surf, one only needs a board, (maybe) a wetsuit, either wax or some of that rubber boat matting.

tango's picture
tango's picture
tango commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 1:23pm

Stubbies.....now there's a licence to print money.....

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 10:00pm

How many surfers can these companies say actually moved product over the years? I reckon the most obvious one would be Occy for Billabong, likewise maybe Taj or Parko. Andy? Perhaps. Kong for Quik and later Slater definitely for them and Merrick owes quite a few of his millions to Kelly. Mick for Ripcurl and Curren and I'm guessing Gabs too. You can add to this list if you like because i'm guessing i've missed quite a few, but I'm struggling to think of them off the top of my head.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

Pops's picture
Pops's picture
Pops commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:23am

I reckon Mason probably shifts his share. But I can't recall ever seeing a pro wearing/endorsing something and thinking "man, I need one of those!"
Boards being the exception.

He who hesitates is lost

amb's picture
amb's picture
amb commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 11:57am

Craig Ando for Hayden Shapes (ie Hypto)

OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:01pm

Jamie O'Brien for Catchsurf.....

Every dicc and his dog is on those [email protected]#king things these days.

Yea, I get barrel

Johnyuleanderson's picture
Johnyuleanderson's picture
Johnyuleanderson commented Saturday, 1 Feb 2020 at 9:09pm

Jamie and Kalani etc
Are moving softies and in Jamie’s case red bull I think - not in huge volumes tho

scott.kempton's picture
scott.kempton's picture
scott.kempton commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 10:26pm

Surf industry been dying of slow death since the hay days of the late 80s and 90s

Mr Nobody's picture
Mr Nobody's picture
Mr Nobody commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 10:34pm

It’s a funny one.

I don’t think I have met a surfer who wishes they could paddle into their local/regular/favorite break and have more surfers to share the line up with. I reckon we all would love there to be less surfers in the water.

But, we all consume products that are built by the corporations influenced by the size of the user base. Do you think your wetsuit would be cheaper if the market was 50% or 60% or 80% smaller? Would wetsuit tech have evolved if there wasn’t the increasing consumer market to pay for the development costs? Or, you could argue that wetsuits are overpriced and factor in the pro surfer endorsement factor, so could be cheaper (quote non-name brand variants) but that also feeds into the market that has driven advancements in tech and materials by the big guys. I bought my first wetsuit in the late 70’s and it wasn’t a patch on what you can buy today.

Surfing (and probably most sports) has been sponsored since more or less day one (“modern” surfing that is) so paying pros and high profile influencers is nothing new. It probably got a bit out of hand, but at the end of the day, the money paid for sponsorship and endorsements is just advertising and it is cyclic to account for outlay versus return. Will my $1M dollars on advertising bring in a return of $1.3M? A smart business will monitor and adjust outlay versus return accordingly.

I don’t hate the industry for wanting to make a buck. I don’t even hate them for making a buck and wasting it on shit I don’t agree with. It’s their money.

My suggestion is to see if you can research who you want to give your surfing dollar to. A couple of years ago, I sought out Australian made board shorts which were very cool and cheaper than the big brands (not sure if they are still made), buy my boards from my local shaper, and happily buy no logo T-shirts from low-cost shops. Having said that, I don’t have a problem with buying stuff from the big guys. It keeps people employed and we are all part of the capitalist machine anyway.

Having said all of that I wish there were less people in the water.

Peace and good vibes to all.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 6:19am

All well and good to buy cheapo non-branded t-shirts; but can you trace them back to the source? It's just possible they're being made by Chinese prison slave labour. Without the ability to trace the supply chain all the way through from raw material to retail, it's really difficult to make an ethical consumer choice.....maybe wait for a sale at Patagonia or Outerknown? (Yes, I'm being facetious).

frog's picture
frog's picture
frog commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 7:36am

The critical difference with most sports is finite supply of the "facilities" i.e. quality spots and scarce good waves. Also there is the vast difference in the experience between a poor wave and a really good one.
The frustration for surfers is that growth pursued by the industry and wsl has wilfully ignored this creating a fantasy lifestyle that does not match reality that also acts to worsen the reality for surfers through greater crowds.
No other supply industry has this contradiction baked into the cake to the same degree.
Success = failure
Are you listening mr logan and mr ziff? Your MBAs and $$$s will not fix this conundrum.

It is a huge ball and chain limiting growth and creates a large pissed off group in the core of the market and a frustrating entry path for new entrants. This does not spell growth.
Waves pools are the first hint of an answer but will only whittle away at the edges.
I do appreciate my quality wetsuits but would trade these for an empty line up.

So remember all ye who enter the over worked mine shaft that is monetizing surfing. Your success may sow the seeds of your failure and both the orcs and hobbits of middlesurf will only yawn or cheer.

Frogg

NickT's picture
NickT's picture
NickT commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:41pm

Well put @mrNobody. Best comment so far in this feed,

eat-your-vegies's picture
eat-your-vegies's picture
eat-your-vegies commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2020 at 10:56pm

“They've got the creaky knees and crooked necks that need the drugs to kook out on waves they no longer have the expertise to surf properly. ”

I resemble that comment

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:29am

I'm never buying a Hurley T-shirt from the op shop ever again!

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:56am

Can I have my ... " I told you so moment ? "
Paycuts , stickerless, youtube spruking
By my shit .com
Future.
Oh don't forget to like and subscribe.
While everyone runs daggers towards the big players, lets not forget how destructive social media has become.
If instagram is your one stop shop than......go figure.

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 5:53am

i recon volcom would be doing the maths about now......

simba

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 7:06am

My surf heros are the unsponsored mums and dads who are doing the normal and sometimes boring jobs that keep the country going. Who get up for the early session and rouse every one up and get the family to the beach before the sun burns holes in them. Who live humble peaceful lives and wear whatever clothes are in their budget. Who leave as little a carbon footprint as they can without making a big deal about it. Everyone rips these days, so whats the big deal, Its all about attitude toward others and the appreciation of maybe hanging on to a good board a little longer or wear your clothes a little thinner to save waste, or giving a kid or an old guy a set wave you could have had even if you are a pro. How do you gauge "respect " and "legend", its all how you look at it really. I do appreciate a well designed wetsuit and a great board designed by a good surfer, but its when I put the suit on, I know it will be right for me and if it dosen't fall to bits I'll buy another, its not because a pro surfer wears one.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:43am

I agree optimist- i like your positive outlook on things.

I only own two pairs of boardies and they're both at least ten years old. I'd be lucky to buy a new t-shirt every couple of years.

Having said that, if i need stuff, i buy it. I don't really put much thought into it.

As for giving an old guy a set wave? I'm totally down with that.

I'm that old guy.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

NDC's picture
NDC's picture
NDC commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 11:52am

+1 on the everyday heroes

hamishbro's picture
hamishbro's picture
hamishbro commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 6:34am

Aye aye optimist. I still wear surf apparel on occasions - but it’s all from the op shop.

belly's picture
belly's picture
belly commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 7:54am

We all know when the death of Hurley in Aus started, that cap.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:09am

I know. Can you imagine the Hurley boardroom when Scott Morrison started wearing a Hurley hat? I bet the Hurley folk let him know that Hurley was an American brand and he should go and see Mick Fanning's mum to plug Rip Curl.
Not only did Smoko stop wearing the Hurley hat, they made Rip Curl look like a brand favoured by fat phoney fuckwits who have never been on a board in their lives.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

Coops70's picture
Coops70's picture
Coops70 commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:26am

Optimist... spot on well said

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 11:00am

Just a bit of perspective on the whole "but... t-shirts only cost a dollar to make" phrase that gets rolled out all the time.

Yeah, there are very large price mark-ups on apparel. But, it actually costs a lot more to make clothes than most people think.

Yes, the big companies can negotiate much lower unit prices because of the sheer volume of product they're commited to purchase. But here's the rub: this only comes about from being a large, profitable business in the first place.

Wanna start up your own clothing business from the ground up, and want to source high quality, ethically produced gear? You'd be surprised at how the costs quickly go up, especially when you're dealing with small quantities.

You've also gotta factor in the cost of doing business. Staff are required to create, order, manage, import, market and sell everything, and those salaries have to be paid for by someone (through the markup on the cost of the shirt). 

Yeah, we've all got access to eBay, Alibaba etc and can see that the raw price of goods appears to be significantly lower (though, there are always financial surprises around every corner). But, you've also gotta factor in ALL of the costs before you come to a conclusion as to the true cost of making a t-shirt - and therefore just how much profit the surf brands are (or are not) making. 

I mean, you don't walk into a cafe and state that their $18 omlette should cost $2.50, because that's what you can buy three eggs, two mushrooms and a dash of milk for, right?

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 11:57am

@thermalben,
You forgot cheese.
The cheese makes they omelette!

Great perspective though, I think some people may be unaware of overall costs of products.

What's also interesting to note is that pro surfers are "contractors" .
Meaning they are actually not employees of )( .
So no 401 k, no social security.
So if they also have huge injuries, there contracts may state that the contract becomes nul invoid....

Another point to note is that they are also liable to lose contracts for bad behavior. Which is also another of the many clauses,

They also aren't looking to contract scholars either, any sort of independence / integrity is no actually welcomed.....

garyg1412's picture
garyg1412's picture
garyg1412 commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:00pm

Ben - I have had this catchy little surf brand logo that has been sitting on ice for the last 15 years but I'm f#@ked if I know how to get it off the ground. Maybe you can be my marketing manager. Surely you could make more money than running some obscure surfing website :):)

savanova's picture
savanova's picture
savanova commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:33pm

Yep its cheep to produce in the the third world, but the business operates in the first world. Every employer knows employees don't come cheep.

radiationrules's picture
radiationrules's picture
radiationrules commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:53pm

agree with that > created 4x tees', original artwork = 4x screens to set-up printing process, 3x colour print (red, black, white), all black tees, 5,000 print run across 4 sizes, quality cotton, price tags, protective delivery materials > cost per Tee $20 +/-, sold for $50 > made $3,000, lost $2,000 > stock left over > odd sizes? Learned quite a lot > turned idea into another art-form. $2 a tee is a myth. Unless its a shit product from start to finish.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 1:01pm

Jeez, wow.

Thanks for putting some actual numbers and experience up here for everyone to see. And that's with what I wouldn't call a "small run" of t-shirts - five thousand of 'em, at twenty bucks each = that's an initial outlay of $100,000 (and does that take into account time/effort/graphics?).

Massive risk just to make just a couple of grand. 

And I assume you copped a few "t-shirts only cost a dollar to make" claims too.

radiationrules's picture
radiationrules's picture
radiationrules commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 3:56pm

Ben > my dyslexia confused that message > I can't find my exact financial records > but I know I put $5k down as an experiment and made $3k, therefore I lost $2k - or "invested" in an idea - depending on which way you look at it. The cost per Tee was definitely about $20 - some of these costs are fixed, like the screens & artwork and could arguably be amortised across multiple print runs. I did an experimental 1st print run, that must have been more like 100? I think 120? I tried selling them in a retail surf shop, Xmas markets, online and to family & friends. The net result was I learned something > but by memory you needed to print 1,000 of each design (4,000 total) to get any economies of scale. Disregarding the fixed costs, I think at that volume the cost was $8-$10 a tee. That is, a long way off $2 for quality cotton and original art. Hope that clarifies. > RR

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:15pm

Ahh cool. Five grand is still a big outlay! Obviously doesn't account for the work you put in too. 

Anyway, fascinating to hear. 

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:46pm

Yes. Sorry, my context was of buying clothes in China. Anyone can walk into a supermarket and barter for a $5 mass-produced t-shirt. China prices 8 years ago. Maybe things have changed... I once refused to pay $6 for a one-of-a-kind garment I've never seen ever again because the cost of making was way lower than $6 - what an idiot.. That was in a city where many of the native inhabitants are now in concentration camps. Times change.

radiationrules's picture
radiationrules's picture
radiationrules commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:53pm

Actually AA - you're probably more up to date than me on tee manufacturing prices - my comment was more about quality than price. Ad there is so much shit produced in the world these days that lasts 5 minutes of real wear and tear.

BTW totally agree on the china situation - 2million Urguguys (spelling) in concentration "social re-education camps" as we sit here talking about the frivilous pursuit of surfing??? faaaaaaarrk, how lucky to be born aussie???

Clive Rodell's picture
Clive Rodell's picture
Clive Rodell commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:57pm

Some good points. :)
Maybe we'll go back to referrals for good products and tradesmen, I support the people that 'support me'/have product that suits.
It might mean the move towards the decline of the 'instant' instagram hero, accelerates even more, and place faith and $ back to those who really have put in the hard yards to produce/give a quality product/service.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 8:13pm

It's all about to change, this is the end of globalisation. 60 million in lockdown in China right now (not including Uighurs)
Get local, hard yakka.

marcus's picture
marcus's picture
marcus commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2020 at 12:54pm

don't forget to not sell them in sizes over xxl because we all know real surfers are blonde and not fat

i remember the internet when it was just for intelligent people but.

chook's picture
chook's picture
chook commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:03pm

the latest fin box "leisure coast" t-shirts are great.

Robo's picture
Robo's picture
Robo commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:41pm

Have never bought anything Hurley.

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 12:44pm

When it comes to buying surf gear, I'm happy to grab boardies from the salvos and purchase near new second hand boards. For the rest of the essentials, it all comes down to three things: performance, performance, performance. When wetsuits fall apart after one season or a leg rope snaps when it shouldn't, I will gladly abandon that brand.
But hey, I'm a freak and not the target market. Surf companies are happy to shovel shit products to surfers knowing their cream is selling t-shirts / mobile billboards to people who want to look like mick, JJF and gabs without getting wet.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

p-funk's picture
p-funk's picture
p-funk commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 1:32pm

Travesty. Their Phantom boardies are fucking great and now I can no longer purchase them out of principle.

NickT's picture
NickT's picture
NickT commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 5:17pm

They are actually excellent boardies, my pair have lasted four years

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 1:49pm

Unfortunately, the Death of a ( waveriding ) salesman for the corporates ain’t going to lessen the exposure of lesser known surf spots.

As we are already seeing with the bottom-feeder pro surfers , the ability to boost an air isn’t going to sustain a living wage , so it’ll be an arms race to exploit NEW !!!! and EXOTIC!!! locations as a backdrop for the cookie cutter turns performed by the vast majority of surfers as they try to build their individual profiles now that the sponsor spotlight no longer shines on them.

Won’t just be Creed et al pumping those spots anymore , it’ll be everyone from the top 5 down.

Particularly with the non endemics like Red Bull at their back, who take pride in not giving a fuck where they expose in their ceaseless mission to peddle their pseudo-gack rat’s piss.

michaelperry's picture
michaelperry's picture
michaelperry commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 2:47pm

No more major surf brands and Zik decides to keep his money in his pocket and just run a media content company...end of professional surfing? No WSL, no governing body. Only international structure is ISA which got surfing into Olympics. Interesting times.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 2:52pm

$12.50 for an omelette in Ballina

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:49pm

$18 in Manly...

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 5:55pm

$3 in Bali

mr mick's picture
mr mick's picture
mr mick commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 9:08pm

Free at my sisters! Ha

Mr mick

Gary G's picture
Gary G's picture
Gary G commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 9:28am

More details please, Gary has enjoyed many a free omelette the morning after

I’ve created a monster. Cause nobody wants to ride faceys no more, they want Gary; I’m chopped liver.

But if ya want Gary this is what I’ll give ya: a little creatine kiss from a hard licker

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:12pm

Bahahaha.

mr mick's picture
mr mick's picture
mr mick commented Saturday, 1 Feb 2020 at 12:33pm

Yes, same here Gary G, i must say your sister is very accommodating for an omelette the morning after.......or was it your brother? can't remember, ...very drunk at the time!

Mr mick

dimdim's picture
dimdim's picture
dimdim commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 3:35pm

Those old wetsuits made in the 70,s could have been a bit more comfortable but they lasted years.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 8:17pm

Seams on the high tech ones going within a season... I mean guys, use stronger glue or something!

back to the older tech - Needs or a basic Dawn Patrol is enough, lasts way longer.
Got 3 wetsuits falling to pieces right now, used them until beyond dead. Probably Needs to replace.

dimdim's picture
dimdim's picture
dimdim commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 3:48pm

I think people with status anxiety are always gunna be happy to part with their hard earned. If Hurley isn,t your bag anymore then Afends will have you looking uberhip in their $60 tee shirts and $25 pairs of socks. Yes.People will look at you and go " He is cool. He is wearing Afends"

radiationrules's picture
radiationrules's picture
radiationrules commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 4:05pm

Any thoughts on a wet-suit that will last more than 2 seasons? I just bought a Rip Curl - FB model @ 25% off, which was still $400 +/- with a free dry bag. Feels fantastic - but I have very low expectations on it lasting more than 2 winters? It sucks the surfing industry can't conquer this one. (BTW > I tried on a Patagonia suit of envromentally friendly rubber at $800 +/- - it felt like a boa constrictor had hold of me - plus $ issue - hence back to what I know - Ripcurl - but not happy?)

Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous's picture
Ape Anonymous commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 6:12pm

Oneill - original and the best!?

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:24pm

Agree with Ape. Oneill does the trick for me. Spending summers in it everyday doing surf lessons and all winter in it in the cold climes of the south, chucked in the back of the car boot, rarely washed, never dried...never fails. You'll get 2 good seasons out of it if you semi look after them. Super freaks and psycho freaks i think from memory. Between $350 and $400 for a good 4/3. Been on them for a good 10 years and they haven't let me down.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:27pm

Three seasons if you reeeeally wrap them in cotton wool and do all the right things.

morg's picture
morg's picture
morg commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 11:49pm

Have to disagree. A few years ago I bought a 2.5/3.5 psycho freak steamer and didn’t use it until I’d had it for over a year. It was still in the bag I bought it in when I went to use it and in less than two weeks of use (specifically 11 surfs) it was falling apart. Contacted O’Neill and they said as it was outside of their 12 month warrantee period it’s not there problem. Been happily using Needs Essential wetties ever since and avoiding anything O’Neill.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:05am

God i'm glad you said it Morg. I've had a couple of O'Neill wetties and while initially they're comfortable, their longevity is left wanting. They practically fall apart in front of your eyes. Never again.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

mlb33surf's picture
mlb33surf's picture
mlb33surf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:46am

Haven't bought a wetsuit from them in a while because the one I have has lasted so long (also I don't surf much in cold water anymore)- they also do customs and from what I remember going back a couple of years they don't cost much more than one off the rack. I highly recommend Hotline wetsuits.
https://www.hotlineonline.com/

mlb33surf's picture
mlb33surf's picture
mlb33surf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:46am

Haven't bought a wetsuit from them in a while because the one I have has lasted so long (also I don't surf much in cold water anymore)- they also do customs and from what I remember going back a couple of years they don't cost much more than one off the rack. I highly recommend Hotline wetsuits.
https://www.hotlineonline.com/

Fluffers's picture
Fluffers's picture
Fluffers commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 9:38am

Needs essentials are great. No logos, well priced and feel great on

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 7:31pm

sheesh. Going by you blokes i think i got pretty lucky...have had 5 or 6 of them over the last 10 or so years now and the only issue i ever had was a broken zip after a year. Maybe the 4/3's are a little better made? Also another bloke i worked with also got them, same amount and duration as me and he loved them too. I'm not plugging them but just referring my experience. I'm in the water every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day for prolonged periods. Anyway, spewing you had shockers. Good to know...but at moment no need to switch for me.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 11:29am

RR I'm in the same boat as you re: the FB, can report seams going in groin (always the groin first for me), getting a repair, kept leaking a tiny bit. Was sad as it was within 1 yr.

So what's lasted for me?

Simple Dawn Patrols. I have one bought about 5 years ago, it's quite dead now complete with me wearing the shoulders almost though (! - value for money!) and the panel that goes over your lat dorsi muscles (excuse spelling) has a great big hole, but the wettie lasted a good 4 years. I did get seams repaired iirc.

I have an old Quikkie 5/4 that's 11 years old, only in this last year the outer plastic seams started literally cracking and fading, other than that it hasn't leaked until now. They were quite well made back then and I got it for $220, that was a score. Soon after, they changed the glue and had wetties falling apart in 6m, think they improved after that.

An old, E3 Rippie we used for both our kids - that one still works, the rubber is fantastic, but at about 8 yo now, it's had it.

Other than that, I'm trying Needs. Simple stuff, hopefully well put together.

OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:17pm

I got a 'Critical Slide Society' steamer on sale for $187. It is an awesome wettie that's lasted me 2 seasons so far, and has a similar fit to my last 2 Flashbombs.
Speaking to a guy in the industry, he was telling me that a lot of the up and coming brands will purchase a template (or the wettie itself) and model their wetsuit off that.

Give some lesser known brands a go if they're cheap enough I say.

The thing I've found over the years is that there is always a better wettie.

Yea, I get barrel

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 5:24pm

Speaking of surf brands, how's Mad Hueys going? That brand certainly was popular with knuckle-dragging beer-swilling loud-mouth bogans. Fuck knows how long that lot were going to keep forking out for $100 hoodies given the dole has remained woefully inadequate for decades.
They seemed to be really popular in Queensland but a complete non-entity in Victoria.

"angry online, smiley in the brine"

OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:18pm

My drop-in instinct kicks in whenever I see some turd wearing anything Mad Hueys in the surf.

Yea, I get barrel

mibs-oner's picture
mibs-oner's picture
mibs-oner commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 7:49pm

Pro surfers need to take note from former pro skater Mikey Taylor. He turned his pro money into a proper future for him and his family after the skateboard cash stopped coming in.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 8:21pm

"I wish that when they had asked me 'What is surfing?' I had said it's an art and not a sport, for that is what has put us on the wrong track."

Kudos, Nat.

The Fire's picture
The Fire's picture
The Fire commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2020 at 10:26pm

Option A:

Buy 1x$50 "surf brand" T-Shirt and keep a pro surfer employed..

Option B:

Buy 5x$10 K-mart brand T-Shirts and keep lots of Bangladeshi children employed..

Hmm, which one..

Ride anything.

podrig's picture
podrig's picture
podrig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:51am

All these comments basically looking for someone else to pay the rent.. what happened to surfer made and owned?

Quik, curl, bong, hurley, o'neill et al. and there is a long list, all started as surfer owned and made, where is the next generation of companies on the same path?

If you look at skateboarding, almost the entire industry is made by and for skateboarders. With the exception of the big footwear players, all the companies making decks, wheels, trucks etc are 'core' skateboard brands owned and operated by and for skateboarders. They are brands that people outside of skateboarding have never, and will never, hear of. And when you hear the guys that run these companies talk about it, to a man they all say the same thing "skateboarding gave me everything, it's time to give something back". And so they do, sponsoring local talent and grassroots contests.

All we see in surfing is greying ex-pros with their hand out. Seriously, no disrespect to the careers and contributions of the guys who made "pro surfer" a genuine career choice but how about investing some of that hard won coin back into the sport that made them. Dorian, Potts, Pete Mel, etc, how long do these guys expect someone else to keep paying their bills. And then we have Parko and Fanning who just hit the Balter jackpot, these guys have serious wealth that could easily be used to foster the next generation.

And I am aware that there are plenty of one off contests and things around but I am talking about proper companies with a full roster of up and coming talent on the books.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 11:21am

The Snapper Pro brought to you by Balter
The fruity beer that grommets crave
More hops will help your chop hops

Oh, hang on, they sold it...

Timmy 56's picture
Timmy 56's picture
Timmy 56 commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 9:55pm

Oh and we will only give you 18 cans in a carton WTF who would have bought one , I fucken well know who.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 11:36am

"With the exception of the big footwear players, all the companies making decks, wheels, trucks etc are 'core' skateboard brands owned and operated by and for skateboarders.".

Although the big surf brands take the limelight, have a think about all of the smaller surf apparel/wetsuit brands, plus thousands of shapers, surf shops, surf hardware manufacturers, surf schools and surf media (plus others I can't think of right now) that are also part of our surf culture. 

On the balance, almost all of 'em are small businesses, owned and operated by surfers.

podrig's picture
podrig's picture
podrig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:23pm

That's true for the broader surf industry but we are talking specifically about companies with the potential to be the major sponsor of a world tour surfer. Small businesses might be able to throw some gear at a couple of juniors but they couldn't support the likes of John John.

A company with the backing of a Parko or a Kelly should be able to float a decent group of CT competitors. Or at least one highly paid JJ.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:32pm

I was just drawing parallels with your comment: "If you look at skateboarding, almost the entire industry is made by and for skateboarders."

The same is true for surfing.

As for any company "potentially being the major sponsor of a world tour surfer"... the question comes back... why? 

As I said earlier, a sponsorship is a business transaction. It's gotta make financial sense.

I don't understand your suggestion that "a company with the backing of a Parko or a Kelly should be able to float a decent group of CT competitors." 

What is the underlying business model?

podrig's picture
podrig's picture
podrig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 1:43pm

"Why?"

Is that a serious question? The why is the same for any sponsor, to sell stuff because people see the sponsored surfer wearing/riding your product.

"What is the underlying business model?"

Sell stuff, make money, invest it back into surfing.

All I am saying is there are some people, who happen to be surfers, with the capital to actually take a punt on manufacturing, marketing etc at a large enough scale to be profitable rather than having to start with 50 hand printed tees out of their garage. Look at Balter, that stuff was selling before it hit the shelves purely because of the social media following those cats have. If they took the same strategy to a surf company who knows what could happen.

The obvious problem with that business model though, which has been mentioned many times and which I don't have a solution for, is that people who actually surf don't buy over priced surf fashion.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 1:58pm

So, I think you've just answered your question.

Sponsorships are dwindling because (for the most part) most surfers don't move enough (if any) units. Sure, one or two big names do, but for the most part, it doesn't stack up financially.

Dane Reynolds was making almost US$300,000 per MONTH from Quiksilver. Not sure how many pairs of boardshorts you need to sell to cover his costs, but add up all of Quiksilver's sponsorship overheads back in the day, and it was an eye-wateringly large cost to the business.

BTW, I'm not attacking - just trying to parse out the argument, because sponsorships of this size and scale rarely make sense to me. I mean, surely the same logic could be applied to Swellnet? "Why don't you sponsor surfer X, they'll bring in a load of new website subscriptions". 

podrig's picture
podrig's picture
podrig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:21pm

"So, I think you've just answered your question."

I do kind of feel like I'm going in circles in my head! :) I keep coming back to the point that they definitely have the coin to START a company but the numbers to maintain it as you say don't really add up. Re Quik and Dane, I think it's a chicken and the egg thing, those companies were selling bulk product and so could afford the sponsorships, not that they were selling bulk product because of said sponsorships.

"BTW, I'm not attacking"

All good mate, me neither, the engagement from you guys is a big part of why I subscribe.

At the end of the day, as the article says, someone has to foot the bill for the competitors on tour and most surfers would prefer to see surf companies doing it rather than 'outsiders'. Whether there is a sustainable version of that remains to be seen I guess.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:39pm

"those companies were selling bulk product and so could afford the sponsorships".

No, they couldn't. 

There's a million articles that probably illustrate it better, but this 2013 piece by Phil Jarratt notes: "Quik hasn’t turned a profit since 2006" (that's seven years in the red!). 

https://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2013/11/18/quiksilvers-crucibl...

In 2015, Quiksilver filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, with $US900 million in debt.

But, the story goes way back further than that. And as Stu wrote on Swellnet back in 2008 (bloody hell, that's over eleven years ago!):

"Maybe the days of the 'big three' monopoly are numbered? Maybe Quiksilver's strategy of containment will mean they can no longer afford the stratospheric wages of the modern surfer. Maybe that's a good thing."

https://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2008/11/20/ripples-wall-street... 

podrig's picture
podrig's picture
podrig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 3:00pm

Almost a billion in debt! Damn that's a big hole!

It's a shame because the old idea of the 'Dream Tour' ie worlds best surfers in the worlds best waves is still something I want to see (and I think I'm not alone).

What's the answer Ben? The Barclays Premier Surf League? Some global financial institution with enough turnover to use it as a tax write off?

dbsurfs's picture
dbsurfs's picture
dbsurfs commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2020 at 8:44am

Agree mate.

Advertising and sponsorship for any company, across any industry, by any high profile individual can't be pinned down to any reliable return on investment - so many companies are waking up and not paying for them. There are exceptions - maybe Riccardo moves more Renaults than before he joined, I don't know...maybe?

That whole advertising world is filled with magicians who are experts in the dark arts, who promote validity through the flimsiest of statistics gathered from ridiculously unreliable sources and manipulated to suit. There's definitely no offense intended to that industry, it exists because there's an audience to be influenced, but geez it's not built on good foundations is it.

And there's no more stark example of the ridiculous than the Dane Reynolds agreement you mention above. Unsustainable from the day it was signed.

amb's picture
amb's picture
amb commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 3:24pm

agree re Dane nearly fell off my chair $300k a month!, that cant be right, he must have an extremely good manager. But sponsoring surfers can work, when i saw Craig Ando riding the hypto in indo i went out and bought one the next week, otherwise i wouldnt of bought one.

dbsurfs's picture
dbsurfs's picture
dbsurfs commented Monday, 3 Feb 2020 at 4:52pm

for sure @amb...but if it was someone other than Craig Ando riding the hypto would you have bought one anyway? I don't know - I guess it all works somehow...

amb's picture
amb's picture
amb commented Monday, 3 Feb 2020 at 4:56pm

good question, i hadnt thought of it that way, i think it was a combination of the rider, the board and the waves got me across the line.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 11:37am

you really would think Slater, of all people, would be trying to give back to an industry/fans who gave him everything for 30+ years.

Someone mentioned Afends.

I know those blokes, and have done since they were kids. Local Byron kids who employ local people, back surfers and skaters, and are pushing for sustainable use of hemp, not cotton.
they've done alright.

Bungan33's picture
Bungan33's picture
Bungan33 commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 12:37pm

Logic doesn't apply to human frenzy when it comes to brands and consumerism. There is no logic in wearing a branded t-shirt - just an attempt to fill an existential hole with group identification. They will milk the Hurley machine dry until it is the Mambo of the surfing world (remember that stuff? It was an ALMOST serious surf brand now found splattered on one-use-only Kmart body boards....).
If you want an insight into the madness of humanity and consumerism just watch this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rMKPkNTKEY

two-dogs's picture
two-dogs's picture
two-dogs commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:02pm

Balter ought to be ashamed of themselves for selling 16 can cases.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:24pm

Really? 16 cans..?

This is the most shocking thing on the whole thread.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:30pm

It's part of the New Cruelty:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jgJhAEcq6Q

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Friday, 7 Feb 2020 at 11:40am

@Stu net,
LOL ! Bahahaha.....

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 4:19pm

I got one better, Moon Dog are selling Beer Can Lager in 10 can boxes! The world as we new it is ending.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 5:01pm

not so much an odd number of beers in a case, but I paid the equivalent of $98AUD for two six-packs of Patagonia beer at Christmas time.

it was nice, but i think i'll stick to Suntory.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 5:42pm

When I went to Japan you could get beer in vending machines - handy if underage - and the tinny size went up to 2L, which I thought was a real technological improvement.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 6:16pm

You still can, but biggest is 500ml.

Very civilised country in that regard VJ.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 6:29pm

Truly! And very civilised with fireworks and pachinko, which is quite cool if your hosting family indulges you even though you are "a Westerner, they all look young, let him in anyway." Fun times.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 6:28pm

Just to keep things on topic, this reminds me of another one of Stu’s articles from 2010, about Quik’s latest foray - boardshorts via vending machines.

https://www.swellnet.com/news/surfpolitik/2010/07/08/extending-vending

seaslug's picture
seaslug's picture
seaslug commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 6:52pm

I'm very partial to Yamaguchi Weizen Zen

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 9:52pm

https://hitachino.cc/en/

Local drop SS starting to gain some traction. A little pricey but I think you'd enjoy.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

seaslug's picture
seaslug's picture
seaslug commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 11:57pm

I'm partial to the Hitachino's as well, cheers Zen

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:24pm

So if we don't have pro's or sponsorship, contests........
Than who motivates us the buying surfer.....to go surfing and or check the forecast?

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:40pm

I bought a Mambo skatey from Big W for about 30 bucks.

such good value I bought another one.

that was ten years ago, apart from replacing bearings they are still going strong.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:53pm

Lakey just picked up a new sponsor. They must at the very least see some value in having high profile surfers as the face of their brands.
From their website:
We are a band of Sisstrs; creators, swell followers and adventure seekers united by our obsession with the sea. She guides our travels, influences our creative, and promises us the ride of our life. We take what she gives with gratitude and give back to sustain her future.
Welcome to your Sisstrevolution.

https://www.sisstrevolution.com/blog/sisstr-thrilled-sign-world-tour-sur...

Owned by Stokehouse, who also own Vissla...

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 4:55pm

Good on Lakey for getting a new sponsor... I like her surfing.

But.. I wonder what the difference in contracts ended up being (dollar wise). She initially signed with Nike in 2011.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 6:59pm

Directly by Nike or Hurley? One in the same I guess. My brief look around the interweb has her still signed with Hurley. I'm assuming she'll stop wearing their wet suits in favour of the revolution. You'd know better than me Ben, but isn't marketing all run on metrics? Eyes on screens, measurable outcomes and such. Surely the boffins and big wigs run the numbers and guestimate ROI before signing. They can't merely be taking a blind punt and hoping for the best.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 7:08pm

Great question.

Aside from signature series gear, I have no idea how any brand or company truly knows - and therefore assesses - how much an althlete/celebrity (or, worst of all, 'influencer') actually contributes to the bottom line.

And don't get me started on social media metrics.

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 2:36pm

Transworld business, coverage o meter.
LOL

dbsurfs's picture
dbsurfs's picture
dbsurfs commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2020 at 8:50am

Not possible to know. But there is plenty of people including inside and outside the sponsor businesses who prefer to keep it that way. I mean what what the head of marketing do if they weren't chasing influencers and celebs to sign up!

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Thursday, 6 Feb 2020 at 1:01pm

Sent the question and just got a reply from a mate who runs a successful marketing company in Melb. His answer makes sense (to me anyhow).

Q. How do they measure ROI given that they can’t know what proportion of sales is directly attributable by sponsoring someone well known. Is there an answer or are companies just pissing in the wind and hoping to hit some of the consumers?

A. It’s harder for smaller companies to measure ROI specific to particular sponsorships unless there is a specific product link. (Eg signature board shorts).

The bigger guys have the ability to track and attribute most elements of the comms spend via research. For example, sophisticated modelling (like econometric modelling) can measure each element and its impact on sales separately. That is, they can isolate the impact of sponsorship, tv, radio, print advertising, even weather etc on baseline sales.

But again that does ignore overall brand equity impact. For example, Nike would find it hard to measure the overall positive (and at times negative) impact that Tiger Woods has on the brand image/equity over time.

Basically you get to a point of cost vs ‘perceived benefit’ (vs measured benefit) and what audience that athlete will appeal to vs other athletes and options (such as paying them for a one off ad/shoot). It is generally easier to track via research the appeal/like ability of athletes.

The other thing to consider is are you spending enough to leverage the athletes/sponsorships. For example, at brand x (real brand name removed) we spent about $120 million on sponsorships. Rule of thumb is to spend $1 on leveraging the sponsorship for every $1 cost. It certainly didn’t happen in that instance.

Sorry no easy answer on athlete endorsement ROI - but perhaps the best answer is that most companies wouldn’t know. It’s generally an educated guess.

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Thursday, 6 Feb 2020 at 1:03pm

Fascinating, thanks.

Still looks like smoke and mirrors to me.

icandig's picture
icandig's picture
icandig commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 7:04pm

P.S. I know that's not what you asked - I was thinking more about what you posted up the page somewhere. I'm assuming she took a pay cut.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2020 at 2:56pm

Is what we are seeing, actually a generational changing of the guard of major surf brands?

jetson.rover's picture
jetson.rover's picture
jetson.rover commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:00am

JJF is set for life several times over so a big pay cut with another brand won’t downgrade his dream life at all.
And as for Hurley likely going the way of other big name surf brands into irrelevancy,couldn't care less.
I‘ve been buying brand new Hurley board shorts in Salvo’s (plus other big name brands) for $5 to $10 a pair for years now.

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 6:03am

I eat weetbix because Steph does....she is very beautiful....I think I have a Steph crush.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 12:37pm

I don't mind a red bull and Vodka.

john.callahan's picture
john.callahan's picture
john.callahan commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 12:55pm

If you want to discuss masterful marketing of things people don't really need:

Diamonds.

An entire industry worth billions founded on useless but pretty chunks of compressed carbon, good for nothing at all in daily life but for which folks have been persuaded to spend tens of thousands in an effort to "show their love" for their significant other.

Not particularly rare either, diamonds would sell for pennies on the dollar if sold in an open market system like oil or gold - the DeBeers cartel keeps prices high. No one wants to break the cartel, as it is in everyone's interest to keep prices high. Can sell to DeBeers rather than outside the system.

At least boardshorts have a basic purpose, expensive professional-athlete endorsed model or basic off the rack no-brand pair - cover your pink bits and prevent sunburn.

OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY's picture
OHBILLY commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:29pm

https://www.gemsociety.org/article/are-diamonds-really-rare/

100% correct. I work in the mining industry and see just how much ore vs. diamond is pulled out of the ground.

Yea, I get barrel

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 1:43pm

To show you really care:
Get her bullion grade sovereigns as close to spot as you can possibly get them.
Or if it's more of a casual fling:
Junk Silver, again as close to spot as you can get it Just remember, Aus is 92.5% until 1946 but British coins only till 1920. She will appreciate you minimising the depreciation in the gifts you give her, it shows savvy. You're welcome. Or maybe I'm joking.
https://www.australian-coins.com/blog/2008/10/junk-silver-coins.html

;)

dimdim's picture
dimdim's picture
dimdim commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 6:16pm

To show they really care todays enlightened females should start buying their men diamonds and level things up a little.
Do not give a girl a diamond ever. Its their turn to start giving.

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 8:11pm

You're not married are ya?

radiationrules's picture
radiationrules's picture
radiationrules commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 3:46pm

Hi Stu > any interest in asking the major surf brands what their thoughts are on producing a wetsuit that lasts more than two years? Seems like a few crew are interested to know? Their answers could create a platform for emergent brands to err emerge? > RR

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 4:57pm

Classic John John...

Biggest news of the year in his Hurley split, comments flowing across every site, not to mention that his next move will calibrate all future pro surfer earnings. Understandably he's been quiet on the socials.

Thirty minutes ago he posted on Instagram, six sick waves riding a clean white stick and not a single mention of Hurley or sponsors.

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 5:29pm

Am i detecting an extra bit of oomph in his turns. Bit more power in the legs post rehab?? Ripping as hard as ever. Yew!

gcuts's picture
gcuts's picture
gcuts commented Sunday, 2 Feb 2020 at 10:39am

Gezz, I he surfs good .. easy flow, rail game, power ... freak.

And.

I great bloke to surf with. Humble, non hassling. Pleasure to share waves with.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 5:32pm

Real test will be how enthusiastic he is with airs.

Is he gonna play it a bit more safely or not?

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Friday, 7 Feb 2020 at 1:40pm

I reckon he is at a point where he doesn't even need to do airs anymore.
The ct judges need to stop paying attention to all the flyouts and chucks to flats, hail Mary's...
I'm over it.
Bring back power with the occasional air.

freeride76's picture
freeride76's picture
freeride76 commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 5:36pm

goddamn just on those power turns he does it for me

Basil's picture
Basil's picture
Basil commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 5:56pm

I'm with you fr, I could watch that last turn where he has some speed a hundred times and still be wanting more...

Basil

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 8:14pm

Basil I 100% agree, that last turn is pure poetry. More JJF!

mickseq's picture
mickseq's picture
mickseq commented Friday, 31 Jan 2020 at 6:52pm

I spend a lot of time shopping and every time I go into or past a popular brand named surf store there is never anyone in it, yet the city beaches etc are full

Polly2's picture
Polly2's picture
Polly2 commented Saturday, 1 Feb 2020 at 1:36pm

Yep, I’ve got 3 need essentials wetties for the price of 1 brand name. All are good and happy with. My fiancé and I are getting married on the local beach in March and the groomsman are wearing local mv2 clothing but as for boards, well sa doesn’t have the minerals so I been with the SUPER brand which has been good to me. Cheers all

Ajp

Polly2's picture
Polly2's picture
Polly2 commented Saturday, 1 Feb 2020 at 1:44pm

Thermalben, y-steps is the spot and prob just outta cam view lol

Ajp

Remigogo's picture
Remigogo's picture
Remigogo commented Sunday, 2 Feb 2020 at 10:20am

Vapour pipe pro.

gcuts's picture
gcuts's picture
gcuts commented Sunday, 2 Feb 2020 at 10:36am

Some underground news floating that JJF may not have had a choice, nor any $$$ to exit. Contract had some 'testing' clauses, and results may have been negative is the skuttle-butt from the underground crew.

Easy exit option for Hurley's new owners given new corporate strategy and lack of ROI from 'team' costs.

Let's see where he ends up.

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Monday, 3 Feb 2020 at 8:39pm

As in drug testing or what?

truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher's picture
truebluebasher commented Monday, 3 Feb 2020 at 6:16pm

JJF gets free Yacht / Gym anything he wants.
JWF Full sponsorship are willing to do anything ...Yes! That & more...best offer ever.
Warning: This gets a little too creepy...
https://www.instagram.com/p/B8CSylmhGIi/?utm_source=ig_embed

Vince Neil's picture
Vince Neil's picture
Vince Neil commented Thursday, 6 Feb 2020 at 11:10am

dont think JJF told anyone to fornicate themselves. He jumped before he was pushed to avoid damaging his image (future earnings)