How to stifle creativity and influence surfers

Stu Nettle
Surfpolitik

'Twas a big day on the interwebs today. Two contests, one in sort of big waves, one in sort of small. Which one did you gift with your attention?

The Shippies comp was a mix of disciplines, tow and paddle, with a scaled judging criteria that was hard to wrap your head around. We were told the tow waves scored less, the paddle waves higher, but then the day's only Perfect 10 was a tow wave. So what would a paddler scored for the same wave?

Judging, eh?

Equally puzzling was what was happening over on the other monitor. In Heat 6 at Keramas, Filipe Toledo worked up a head of steam on a three foot wave and sent a full roter into the flats. It was bigger than your factory model air reverse, and fully rotated, but the spin was flat. It was a one move wave and the judges threw it a clean 9 - well into the excellent range. Only a handful of waves have scored higher this year.

As a point of context, I'd say maybe half the surfers on the tour could do the same move.

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by World Surf League (@wsl) on May 12, 2019 at 5:57pm PDT

 

Three heats later, Kelly Slater did a carving 360, a move that, as far as I can tell, only he can do. He rode out cleanly, did two more moves, and ended the wave without hitch.

The judges gave him 4.6.

Half Filipe's score, give or take, and yeah, I know all about comparing different heats but surely with such a large difference we can at least ask some questions.

Questions such as: If this is one of the hardest moves in surfing, then why is it being scored so low?

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by World Surf League (@wsl) on May 12, 2019 at 7:56pm PDT

 

For a few minutes after the wave Statler and Waldorf did their routine:

Pottz: It's one of the the most difficult moves to do. Have you seen anything like it today?
Joe: We haven't seen anything like it at most events, Pottz.

The average score didn't stop the WSL rushing to promote it on Instagram, where they were unsurprisingly heckled. Roared Kong "The only judges that should be on the WSL tour should be retired professional surfers that earn the right to be there not someone that has never been at that level." Currently there are 700 more comments just like that...

On the Gold Coast, Slater's spontaneity (a layback snap tube stall ) was lowballed because the judges wanted to see surfers making full use of the wave, top to bottom turns etc, Can't use that against the carving 360 which services all the available real estate. Full commitment, big spray too.

Maybe the judges just didn't know how to score it. Like Slater's switchfoot at Padang all those years ago when the folk in the box just don't know what they had in their hands. Didn't know what to compare it against. Didn't even know how to think about the move.

The most worrying aspect is that Slater's carving 360 was original. It opens up a new way of attacking the lip, pushing lines that bend back towards the curl rather than always away from it, and it could be the seat for variations on the theme. From a chop hop did aerials grow.

But it scored a 4.6. Didn't count in his top two waves. A coded message to surfers that they should maintain their tracks

So it's air revs all 'round, and here comes another one just like the other one.

Comments

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 8:44pm

I didn't watch either event. There is a kind of conflict here between fairness and creativity. The tighter the judging criteria, the more they become a kind of recipe. And that's fair but at the same time I get the impression that surfers have a very clear idea, before they paddle out, of exactly what the judges "want to see" on any given day. So creativity goes out the window. The surfing at Bells was often amazing in skill level but there wasn't much creativity on show. I don't offer any solution. It's the WSL. It's pro surfing. It was decided a long time ago, for better or worse, that surfing should be forced into a competitive format for marketing reasons, when it's greatest marketing strength was in the exact opposite direction. It's too late to change now. I guess we will never know what it might have been without Fred Hemmings, Kanga and all the others who wanted surfing to be (epic fail) "just like golf". The fact that it never even came close provides limited comfort.

Laurie McGinness

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 8:45pm

I love Filipes airs but that one showed that style definitely isn’t part of the judging criteria.
That was a hideous, disgusting poo-stance that was very Brazilian-like. (I’m not a brazzo basher, a few aussies have rank styles too).

And yeah Slaters turn was mental. So sick

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 9:11pm

Ha ha we have all done that move in our living rooms on our PlayStations for years and now on WSL’s own game. Strange to see it in real life.

knB

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 9:22pm

Every Brazzos QS and CT surfer will have that move perfected by the close of business tomorrow..

gunther's picture
gunther's picture
gunther commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 9:26pm

Love the carving 360...underrated move. Never come close to pulling one off

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 11:06pm

That air by the rotatinator was technically impressive, but the style with its execution was functional at best. Jimmy Slade's carving 360 was an order of magnitude easier on the eyes... I think with the air game, judges need to start being more critical, not just of what is done, but how it was done and what preceded the air (i.e., fluid, connected turns/manoeuvres or just a series of shitty speed pumps. )

Johan Wohlleben's picture
Johan Wohlleben's picture
Johan Wohlleben commented Monday, 13 May 2019 at 11:08pm

Kelly’s turn was so smooth and so difficult. Love watching these contests to check out the lineups and how different surfers use them. You have to wonder what the agenda is.

shoredump's picture
shoredump's picture
shoredump commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:26am

One positive is that Kelly is still making some headlines for the right reasons at this stage of his career. I watched that Pipe in the barrel recovery again. Despite the scores, he is going out with style. Hats off

Millerm's picture
Millerm's picture
Millerm commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:27am

Are you serious. I’m an average surfer at best and I can do a carving 360 (just doesn’t look as good as slaters) but filipe’s air was an absolute monster which he stomped perfectly. Not many people in the world can get that high and land so clean. The judges were bang on in my eyes

thermalben's picture
thermalben's picture
thermalben commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:33am

Are you sure you’re doing an actual carving 360? Have you seen video footage of yourself pulling it off?

JosephStalin's picture
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JosephStalin commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:44am

Haha

blackers's picture
blackers's picture
blackers commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 3:08pm

Paging Gary G, Gary G to the Swellnet Office a.s.a.p!

p-funk's picture
p-funk's picture
p-funk commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 11:26am

No need for winter warmers, I can feel the burn from here...

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:23am

Despite minimal evidence I'm fairly certain you're not doing a carving 360.

daisy duke kahanamoku's picture
daisy duke kahanamoku's picture
daisy duke kaha... commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:48am

Not knowing the difference between a sliding 360 and carving 360.

Priceless.

Saltdog79's picture
Saltdog79's picture
Saltdog79 commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:35am

Hahaha no you cant

Saltydog

Sheep go to heaven's picture
Sheep go to heaven's picture
Sheep go to heaven commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:27am

Saw Kelly do a similar carving 360 at Bells bowl a few years ago only on a bigger wave , same deal -low balled by the judges . I asked one of the judges a week or so later ( a local boy ) and he said " they're not that hard , anyone can do them ! " - yea right ?

simba's picture
simba's picture
simba commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:31am

Ive Never seen anyone pull one off....ever....good to see slats ripping again,hope he keeps it up.

simba

actualview's picture
actualview's picture
actualview commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:33am

Easy. Throw in a style and creativity criteria into the judging mix. May introduce more subjectivity but it would add an extra dimension. Style is something that is sadly lacking in some of today's contest surfing, and to me, should be more highly valued.

Optimist's picture
Optimist's picture
Optimist commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:04am

I cant get excited about the air show thing, reminds me of dogs chasing frisbies, give me rail or its a fail. Plus there are at least 5 times more broken boards these days adding more pollution to the planet...chill out and carve....keep your board in one piece.

Ted from the moon's picture
Ted from the moon's picture
Ted from the moon commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:12am

Great write up Stu. Jimmy Slade was well underscored I agree. Good to see him take it on the chin and still sneak through in waves that he really should not have had a chance on. At 47 he is simply amazing.

yahabo's picture
yahabo's picture
yahabo commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:22am

The only event Slater has any chance of winning is either Chopes or Pipe, and only if it's huge Chopes as big as you can paddle, or big Backdoor pipe, no lefts. At all other venues and in all other conditions, the rest of the top 10 has his measure, easily. The only one that can't see and accept that is Slater. That's why a 47 year old man is still on the world tour. He doesn't know anything else, he is defined by pro surfing, and won't know what to do with himself when it's over. The carving 360 is very cool, and yes it was underscored, but people banging on about how "Slater is back" need to have their heads examined. Chances of another world title, zero.

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:48am

Theres about 39 guys on tour, only about 5 or less have a realistic chance of being in the race for a world tittle this year and about ten or so will ever have any realistic chance of a world tittle, possible 20 or so will not even win a mens championship tour level comp.

I wouldn't say he is back, but at 47 and still doing things others are not and competing at the top level is pretty impressive and making history with every comp.

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:58am

Maybe he just loves competing at the highest level and trying to win. Nothing wrong with that. I only got my back up when he took the piss last year. Agree though no chance of a title but reckon he will be happy with an event win.

knB

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:01pm

You have to be on some bad drugs saying Slater is only good at backdoor. Are you tripping?? At big gnarly Pipe. .......:???????????????? He's one of the greatest ever.

yahabo's picture
yahabo's picture
yahabo commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:27pm

At Pipe Slater is insane, but Medina could perhaps beat him being on his forehand.
At Backdoor, if it was absolutely heaving, I think Kelly would beat anybody (except maybe John John).

bluediamond's picture
bluediamond's picture
bluediamond commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 8:03pm

Fair enough call. Maybe it's me that's on drugs...but i still reckon Slater at proper....shifty...heaving...maxing pipe is the man to beat. (JJF and Hawaiian wildcards aside). He has 30 years plus of experience there and numerous Pipe masters titles. John John and Medina definitely the cream of the crop too.

suckin-sand's picture
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suckin-sand commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 10:19am

Yahabo. Heard the same 10 years ago when he won his eighth. Underestimate Slater at your peril. He’s going where no surfer has ever gone - elite surfing at near 50. He’s actually old enough to be Caroline Marks grandad!

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:25am

Overs and Unders I guess. Yep underscores here vs surf ranch last year where he was totally overscored. Hope we see a bit more size so he can shine more that just his impressive dome.

knB

indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming's picture
indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:26am

It didnt look that impressive at normally speed when i saw footage of it from the front, but in slow mo it's much different, it's a full carve, no slide of the tail at all and done perfectly, for sure it should have scored higher.

zenagain's picture
zenagain's picture
zenagain commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:43am

At the expense of technique, it's obvious that points are awarded above the lip.

Watashi wa metabo oyagi desu.

goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot's picture
goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:47am

Was that on that Aipa twinny?

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:22am

5'8" Aipa squashtail thruster.

Craig's picture
Craig's picture
Craig commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:49am

Yeah this is different to a 3'oh which I think some of the guys above are saying are easy to do. Sure getting up in the lip and spinning around 360 isn't that hard, my mates do them all the time, but this is different.

Full fluent rail game and absolutely smoking the turn as well with big spray. Totally underscored.

ryder's picture
ryder's picture
ryder commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:56am

Makes me wonder.

What if Curren, Gerlach, Egan (to name a few) were surfing in the current era. How would their 'style' surfing compare to this 'air' movement we are seeing. The judges would crucify them under their current judging criteria.

It feels as though the judges are laughing at Kelly as he walks out the door into retirement. A bit of a slap in the face to the very person who has done more for professional surfing in the last 30 years than anyone.

tango's picture
tango's picture
tango commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:30pm

I couldn't care less what the judges would think, as they are the primary reason pro surfing is so sleep-inducing - if Curren, Gerlach, Occy, Pottz, Nick Wood, Hoyo and the like were on tour I'd probably want to watch it because full rail power surfing with style and attitude shits all over this flap-crap bum-shuffle pause-repeat bullshit we see from the young blokes all too often. Sure. it's hard to do, but its shite to watch and so frickin boring. I'd have thought these days airs have got to be flat knacker cloudringers with style to score highly, 'cause everyone seems to do em all the same. Ho hum, wozzle...

thermalben's picture
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thermalben commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:14am

gearoid's picture
gearoid's picture
gearoid commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:25am

I honestly think that the WSL is trying to force Slater out the door. I reckon most of the time he gets scored down. He got ripped off at the Quik this year for one, and I reckon over the last couple of years there's been a few 50 -50's that should have gone his way but didn't.
Yeah, Lemoore was a farce, but generally....

Maybe they're getting back at him for picking and choosing his contests?

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:56am

.....you can't be serious. The WSL love Kelly and would love to have in on the tour for ever. Kelly took the piss all last year and a fair bit the year before and got his wildcard anyway.

Underscored for one wave yes but hate him the WSL do not.

knB

gearoid's picture
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gearoid commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:42am

Agree the WSL love Kelly, but I don't agree that the Woz want him on the tour for ever. I think they would prefer him to go silently into the night and come back as a figurehead of sorts.

I reckon its embarrassing for them to have a 47 year old up at the cutting edge when they are trying to sell a hip young 'product' to the masses.

What they want is a new Kelly and I reckon they are determined to keep churning and hyping until they get one.

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 10:57am

You may well be right there Geary.

knB

Ted from the moon's picture
Ted from the moon's picture
Ted from the moon commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:27am

Good find. That explains why it as underscored (in some our views) - he makes it sound so easy.

garyg1412's picture
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garyg1412 commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:29am

Maybe the judges just saw it as a glorified backhand re-entry!!! Wonder if they would score a goofy version any better???

belly's picture
belly's picture
belly commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:38am

What should have the score been?

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:42am

As long as degree of difficulty is in the criteria - which it is - then at least two points higher. Sure, it doesn't have the sheer wow factor of a nosebleed air but to put it on par with a regulation cutty/reo/fin ditch is wrong.

belly's picture
belly's picture
belly commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:31am

Still a bit fluffy there Stu, I think you need to commit to a number :-)
And should the Toledo still be a 9 or something lower? If so what number?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:44am

Ha ha...OK. How's 7.50 sound? Solid number. No fluff.

Only raised Toledo's air as a matter of comparison. Maybe the score was a touch high but I'm happy to ket that one slip.

belly's picture
belly's picture
belly commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:48am

2 waves 2 numbers and judging ain't easy ;-) FWIW I reckon you're bang on. And it's a good discussion. IMO I don't think half the field could generate the 'pop' that Toledo does and their probability of landing wouldn't be as high. As for Slater, yes above average surfing, definitely worthy of a 7 (imo).

Surfalot67's picture
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Surfalot67 commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:05am

Not even close to a 9 for that air. Shoulder high close out and a flat spin. There's a dozen grommies at Dbah doing this shit every day. KS was absolutely robbed, that was actually the best demonstration of the judging criteria - SPEED. POWER. FLOW. Filipe only had one of the three...

Steggs's picture
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Steggs commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:06am

You couldn’t practice this manoeuvre on a trampoline or training in a jim. It comes from time in the water. I fully agree with Kong top level comp surfing should be judged by ex top level pros from different ages young and older ex pros.

offshoreozzie's picture
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offshoreozzie commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:29am

You are completely right! My mate Jim never appreciates when I practice my carving 360s on him :)

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:14am

A bit more from Kong this morn / insta

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:19am

Few people in the comments here and on social media that aren't aware of the difference between a sliding 360 and what Kelly did. 

ryder's picture
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ryder commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:21pm

Courtney Conlogue did a sliding 360 in her first round heat for comparison.

loungelizard's picture
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loungelizard commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:22am

bede durbridge used to do beautiful carve 360s and get stiffed in the scoring too

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:24am

Yep, he did.

As an aside, I remember watching Mick attempt a few at Bells during a warmup around a decade ago. Didn't make a single one of them.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:28am

Any footage around of Gary Timperley doing them 3 plus decades ago ?

offshoreozzie's picture
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offshoreozzie commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 9:32am

The cynic would say this is balancing the ledger for years of over scoring??? Ha, he's a GOAT for sure and I agree with your comments re this manoeuvre but I've tended to feel he's been padded on points and the universe is realigning. Judging should be consistent!

Rabbits68's picture
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Rabbits68 commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 10:39am

If Slater has been scored low in the past for doing these carving 360’s, why would such a competitive beast like him continue to do them (in comps)? Doesn’t quite add up.

I reckon they look amazing & should be scored in the upper range given the degree of difficulty & creativity factors involved.

Crystal Clear

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 10:44am

When an umpire or ref makes a massive blue in footy, the media names them and makes them own it.
So with that in mind, who were the judges of that heat?
Let's hear from them.

Sheepdog

memlasurf's picture
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memlasurf commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 11:28am

Agree sheep, and it works a treat in AFL. I think the umpies enjoy the engagement as well. They aren’t defensive and often say that decision was wrong. There seems to be a massive cultural gap in the way sport is called and adjudicated in Oz compared to the USA. Joe is way too syrupy and Pottz is finally saying what he is thinking. Just call it as it is and let’s have a no holds discussion. AFL is a great model for this.

memlasurf's picture
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memlasurf commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 11:11am

Traditionally not a 100% slater fan but at quick and keramas I think he and Jordy look the most fluid and best to watch. Kelly surfs the wave on its merits without having a preconceived plan of attack. That stall at d bah was great surfing as was the 360 and if both are seen in the context of the total wave, are what I would love to be able to do. He put the whole thing together. None of the brazzos are even close and none have any style except Yago maybe.

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 5:47pm

"Kelly surfs the wave on its merits without having a preconceived plan of attack" ….And there it is, you have just flagged one of, if not, the most important distinctions between a good surfer and a great surfer. Reactive surfing that compliments the wave in real-time, rather than conflicts with it is the hardest thing to do well.

Sheepdog's picture
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Sheepdog commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 11:14am

The names of the judges please

Sheepdog

Supafreak's picture
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Supafreak commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 12:42pm

I witnessed Gary Timperly (not sure of spelling ) do three carving three sixties in a row on same wave at overhead D-Bar around about 1982 . He surfed in stubbies one year as an invite and made the semis. These qere sky twin fin days and to the doubters yes they were carving three sixties , l was gob smacked and always admired this humble byron local

tiger's picture
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tiger commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 12:51pm

Nobody does this type of maneuver like Kelly. Bede is the only other pro I've seen do them, but his are a little more pivoty out of the top. Such a difficult maneuver to do with out a pivoty stall, or slide at the top. Can remember Kelly only getting scored well for one at Huntington one year when he did one on a solid closeout section.

inzider's picture
inzider's picture
inzider commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 12:56pm

that front 3 to flat of toledos was fucking ugly.
He wiggled a poo stance into a missed grab air to flat.
If that was a skateboard that would be classed as a fail.

Terminal's picture
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Terminal commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 5:50pm

My thoughts exactly, skaters are extremely critical of how a manoeuvre is performed and this would not cut it.

spencie's picture
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spencie commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 1:15pm

I remember seeing Timpo doing 3 in a row on the one wave at Broken back in the late 70s. Couldn't do them myself, even after trying hard for a while and eventually giving up.

easterly

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 3:50pm

Edit: just saw that other video.

Is there anybody that can really regularly do proper carving ones? (documented)

Not just hearsay. (that are most likely sliding)

LeBarry's picture
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LeBarry commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 6:43pm

KS was under scored, I want to see more style and less one manoeuvre waves (also the local groms regularly do the 360 Airs into the flats so maybe its not as hard as the judges thing it is?) carving is what makes surfing different to the skate park and the half pipe snow boarding bah.

amclean13's picture
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amclean13 commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 7:55pm

I don't know should surfing even be judged in a competition like cricket or bowls? Surfing used to be the alternative to all that competitive jock jostling. Now its more and more like football etc and losing its alternative edge.

Pottah's picture
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Pottah commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 8:25pm

I was on the beach, saw both. Maybe 4 surfers could do Fil's air. JJF, Fil. Gabs and Italo. A few others would get close with a lot of tries. Slater's 360 was sick, and way underscored, but not as good as Fil's air. 9.0 and 7.5 would have been fair.

Slater's airs were over scored a lot. Someone needs to tap him on the shoulder and tell him to be the new michele bourez, which he can easily do better.

Clam's picture
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Clam commented Tuesday, 14 May 2019 at 11:20pm

Kelly robbed his was better than the air

Roadkill's picture
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Roadkill commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 7:17am

I love Slater’s 360....I’ve been trying for years to do it and so far I can get to about 195 and then I fall. It’s my life’s surfing goal to pull it off....I think I’m running out of time to succeed. I know I suck.

Roadkill's picture
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Roadkill commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 7:22am

........and go Ricardo!

wozz's picture
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wozz commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 8:19am

As far as the WSL judges are concerned Slater's had his day, they did the same thing with Occy, even though Slater's surfing pretty good. Judging on this kind of criteria risks turning the CT into an airshow.

Greg Cruse's picture
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Greg Cruse commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 8:32am

10

Greg Cruse's picture
Greg Cruse's picture
Greg Cruse commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 8:40am

It doesn't make sense to me, Kelly has been over-scored for years and now low balling. Kong is right the judges in the box probably dont even surf. Its just wack, wack, spin. Messing up beautiful tubes a lot of times. Where is the barrel roll and the end on end looper? Scoring at Bells was all about negotiating the shore dump. Top turn drop in with the white water, big score. Where is the coffin ride and the swap boards in mid flight? I agree with Kong there is definitely some surf pruning by judges in order to create some kind of surf norm.

frog's picture
frog's picture
frog commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 12:50pm

Carving water with g force turns and weightless smooth speed are the best feeling in surfing. They look best too. Carving 360 has that.

Never done air reverse thingo but guess they feel about as good as jumping off a small brick wall onto the footpath - jolty and jarring to body and mind. Somehow they get scored high????

They are tiresome to watch and i never feel any sense of wishing i could trade places with the surfer doing them. Score them low. Make them dies off i reckon.

Frogg

JJGav's picture
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JJGav commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 1:15pm

Remember, they gave Kelly a 10 for exactly the same thing at Bells in 2012.

I think they should complicate things further with weight divisions. For example, an air by William Cardoso or Jordy should be worth more than Filipe on the basis that they are proper man size and Filipe is the same size as my 9yo son. lol

Gavin

Terminal's picture
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Terminal commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 7:44pm

Yep that is true, but two things. First, that 2012 Bells air is seven years ago now, not every guy on tour could do them then. And second, Jimmy Slade didn't just execute it perfectly from a technical perspective (and from a far later and critical launch), he did it with style. Same move yes, but big difference in execution.

That slob grab f/s 360 he did in New York 2011 was perfect too, Danny Way's mind would have melted...

memlasurf's picture
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memlasurf commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 5:30pm

Now, now gav the sav I am even smaller than Flippy so I might be the same size as your 7 year old. There are advantages in compact dimensions!

JJGav's picture
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JJGav commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 6:01pm

haha... love it. You can get slotted on a 2ft day!
Must say thats why Jay Davies is prob my fav surfer right now. Represents us 90kg boys and can bury a board to the stringer on a turn, charges hard, rides super deep and also throws it way way above the lip like a rubber limbed teenager

Gavin

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 1:53pm

Regardless, pritamo is the most critical man in all of surfing right now.
Sometimes the most hypocritical also.

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 1:59pm

Ha...I agree, at least with your first line.

Would love to get his thoughts on the matter now that another day has passed and the heat is taken out of it.

Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean's picture
Lanky Dean commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 3:03pm

Head judge, Pritamo, just seems super critical. More so than judges of the past.
Its not easy. Neither is it fair or correct. I wouldn't like to have the job, its really interesting when you pull yourself away and observe from afar.
The head judge really dictates the narrative in there.
He is the overlord, recently of questionable results.....

Kham's picture
Kham's picture
Kham commented Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 9:30pm

I am loving Big Luke Egan in the commentary box. Talking straight up and knows what it takes to surf competively. Give Kong a seat too, except they might need a time lapse for the language not to shock the kiddies.

Kham

Surfalot67's picture
Surfalot67's picture
Surfalot67 commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 8:30am

Kham, you may not know but Luke and his business partners are trying to destroy Greenmount with a huge inappropriate development on their Kommune site. Check out Save Greenmount Beach on Facey. Not questioning his surfing pedigree, but a greedy developer ignoring the will of the local people is not something to aspire to.

D-Rex's picture
D-Rex's picture
D-Rex commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 9:47am

On a similar tack to Greg C, why did no 'athlete' get barrelled (or even attempt)at Bells? The famous bowl was begging for some green room action but each 'athlete' went for the same old same old IMHO.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 1:43pm

They don't get scored for barrels at Bells as they want to see big turns and please, please call them surfers. Everyone seems to be an athlete these days no matter what they do. Football, surfing, skateboarding? Why can't they just be great...They might have athletic abilities but they are excellent at their chosen sport and should be known by that. Ends my rant for today.

Terminal's picture
Terminal's picture
Terminal commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 5:21pm

An athlete, "ambassador" or activist....

Supafreak's picture
Supafreak's picture
Supafreak commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 12:00pm

In last years comp Italo scored a 10 for an air which was pretty big and he beat Jordy who l thought overall surfed better and that his 2 waves were underscored, l said so at the time but no one agreed. Then at pipe last year against Medina l really believed Jordy rode bigger better barrels and was robbed, Medina surfed unreal but l thought Jordy surfed as well but better waves. I really get frustrated when a big air immediately gets a 10 . The whole system needs a complete change in direction as they say they want 4 or 5 things considered for criteria but 1 big air and that criteria goes out the window.

memlasurf's picture
memlasurf's picture
memlasurf commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 1:48pm

Agree look at the Quick this year, bullshit decision, plus Italo and the rest are so jerky, which is why I also like watching Colapinto, Igarashi and Julian who I reckon are smooth as silk and still radical.

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 2:28pm

Spot on superfreak - the one move has to have some sort of cap on it vs a series of well put together ones

knB

lost's picture
lost's picture
lost commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 2:28pm

Spot on superfreak - the one move has to have some sort of cap on it vs a series of well put together ones

knB

fatjackdave's picture
fatjackdave's picture
fatjackdave commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 4:35pm

Did evan geiselman do the same move in the air show? Made it look pretty easy.

And I’ve seen an Instagram somewhere of Italo doing something similar

tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter's picture
tubeshooter commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 6:28pm

I think KS has been overscored plenty of times in his career. I,m not saying anything against the GOAT with that , just judging in general.

"Was Slater over scored ?" https://www.adventuresportsnetwork.com/sport/surf/was-slater-over-scored/

"nothing's wrong with saying a score was generous.." KS
https://stabmag.com/news/the-internet-reacts-and-stews-over-the-kolohe-a...

And 'Does Kelly get overscored ?"
https://www.theinertia.com/surf/does-kelly-get-over-scored-maybe/

D-Rex's picture
D-Rex's picture
D-Rex commented Thursday, 16 May 2019 at 7:13pm

'They don't get scored for barrels at Bells' - why not ferchrissake? I'd love to see an athlete do something 'creative' and get tubed - isn't the barrel the ultimate manoeuvre?

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Friday, 17 May 2019 at 5:15pm

"The most worrying aspect is that Slater's carving 360 was original. It opens up a new way of attacking the lip, "

hang about, whaa?

Stu, weren't Buttons and Joe Engel doing these on short single fins in the late 1970s?

stunet's picture
stunet's picture
stunet commented Friday, 17 May 2019 at 5:27pm

Nah, they did sliding 360s not carving 360s. Slater held the rail in from the bottom turn, all the way up the face and into the pocket at the top of the breaking lip. Check the breakout image on the homepage to see the way a sheet of water is flying off the rail as he carves back into the lip. No slide.

Edit: This shot..

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Friday, 17 May 2019 at 5:47pm

Right you are, I just had a look and they pull the board out of trim to do the 360, made easy by the small area of fin base to pivot off.

August is usually when I get closest to carving 360s, and usually early in the week. The weekend being trying to find a slope with something resembling a righthander, then practicing the carving 360 on the snow board repeatedly... then suiting up like the Michelin man in 13 degree water and going for it on the board haha

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin commented Friday, 17 May 2019 at 5:24pm

I saw a fella in the air show miss a section and throw a carving 360 in frustration.

Not as deep a carve as Kelly’s, but it wasn’t a Cheyne Horan Huntington twist by any means.

velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno's picture
velocityjohnno commented Friday, 17 May 2019 at 5:28pm

Oh yeah, and I was watching Shippies fwiw. I'm like the cricket fan who enjoys when the camera pans out and gets the wide view of the oval, the town behind it, the countryside etc. The lineups are the stars.

Johnyuleanderson's picture
Johnyuleanderson's picture
Johnyuleanderson commented Saturday, 18 May 2019 at 3:06pm

Yeh so I was doing a few carving 360s this morning to see what all the fuss was about.... surprisingly easy ;)