The ski and the rope: Towing surfers into the future

blindboy
Surfpolitik

Over the last couple of decades it has been easy to predict the path of surfing's development. The intricacies of design have been harder to pick but the purposes of those designs have always been clear. The template of modern performance surfing was developed in the seventies. Lopez opened the door to deep tube riding and a host of surfers, most prominently Michael Petersen and Mark Richards, building on the earlier work of Wayne Lynch and Nat Young, did the same for full power on the face manoeuvres. Aerials were added in the 80s and with that, the basic skill set for several decades was defined. 

Yet, looking at current high performance surfing, its trajectory into the future seems less clear than at any time in its history. Deep tube riding has a natural limit somewhere in the foam ball which Fanning, Florence, Slater and others appear to have reached. On the face manoeuvres probably reached a similar point several years ago. The modern professionals have the full set. Which leaves aerials. There is probably some further potential in them but mainly in terms of gymnastics, more complex spins and twists, rather than dynamic innovation. This is not to say that performance surfing cannot progress, only that the improvements are likely to be marginal and, as we have seen in recent years, as much in the realm of consistency as innovation. In some sense then, if my analysis is correct, the radical spurt of development that has accompanied the growth and spread of surfing is over, both at the top and amongst the ranks.

For the vast majority of surfers this probably has little impact on their own surfing. The gulf between what surfers are likely to see at their own favourite spots and the performances of the pros has never been greater. In addition to that relative decline it could even be argued that the overall standard of surfing has suffered an absolute decline as its population has aged and broadened to include a cohort of casual surfers with no real interest in performance. 

The other main strand of modern surfing, big waves, has been slower to develop. The early days of the pro tour kept the focus firmly on smaller waves and those riding them. If we take Waimea Bay as an entry point for true big wave surfing, very little happened until the development of tow in surfing in the early nineties. Standards did rise and there was coverage in the mainstream surfing media, but it was a sideshow. The arrival of tow in technology changed that, it was still a sideshow but it was a sideshow that rivalled the main event. Two decades on it is like a support band waiting for its chance to blow the headliners off the stage. The surfers are ready, the boards are ready and the technology of survival has reduced the risk in even the most terrifying of conditions. 

In terms of technical development, tow in is the future. It has the potential to pull the two strands together; high performance surfing in big waves. Tow sessions at Teahupoo have already stretched the limits but we are as yet, nowhere near its potential. Whipping surfers into waves with more speed than the wave itself could ever supply changes the game, the speed limits are broken and the potential for performance hugely enhanced. 

Those paddling in are deserving of huge respect. They are taking chances that tow in surfers avoid. Two critical danger points in heavy conditions are getting caught inside and taking off too late. Both put the surfer in potentially life threatening situations and both are much less likely when being towed. There are also whole dimensions of wave reading skill necessary to successfully paddle in that the tow surfer equally avoids. Then there is the quality of respect for the ocean that has been intrinsic to the philosophy of surfing since it was first developed in ancient Hawaii. For many of us, even the idea of using a motor driven vehicle in the surf initiates an almost visceral disgust...... but we can't turn away from the imagery that flows from them.

To be blunt, philosophical purity and a highly developed skill set will not be enough. The sheer length of the boards needed to catch seriously large waves handicaps performance. Equally paddle in surfers are inherently limited to the speed that can be derived from the wave itself. Whatever personal satisfaction and peer respect are gained from paddle in, it is the media that will determine the path to the future and the imagery generated by tow in give it a huge advantage. The future has a way of ignoring our preferences and going where it will. The biggest challenges tend to attract the greatest talent and, in surfing, it is difficult to see those challenge anywhere other than towing into the biggest waves possible and producing levels of performance on them beyond anything we have yet imagined. The only uncertainty is in how long it will take to become the main game. //blindboy

Comments

stan1972's picture
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stan1972 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 12:37pm

I couldnt disagree more. It seems "Blind boy" is unaware of the intricacies of big wave paddle surfing

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 1:14pm

Maybe Stan but my main point is that I just don't see how you can get high performance on boards of that length. I mean Laird at Teahupoo........you cannot paddle in and surf that wave the way he did.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NcaZarxilJQ&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DNcaZ...

icandig's picture
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icandig commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 2:06pm

Tow surfing will never become the main game. Punters will continue to watch in awe, the general media will always have a passing interest and profiles will be lifted. The 'main game' however, will continue to be driven by the people who identify themselves as part of a culture. Anyone who can splash around in the shallows with a lump of fibreglass can call themselves a surfer. They can have a paddle at Bells, Snapper or even Trestles and at least an inkling of the experience. But the surfing populous can't relate to the effort required to tackle humongous waves, let alone have the nuts to participate. I can't ever picture inflatable vests and jetski's outselling rashies and funboards. Nor can I imagine Jeff Rowley replacing Mick Fanning as a household name.

captainoftheworld's picture
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captainoftheworld commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 2:29pm

I must have been reading a different article to that read by stan as i don't think that Blind Boy was denigrating paddle in surfing. More pointing out that for a TV viewer, the high speed turns and maneuvers that are now happening as a result of the speed generated by tow in are more spectacular and more likely to hold their limited attention than simply paddling and running in front of the white water unless you can claim that it is a world record.

Those that surf know that this is not the case but to an uneducated viewer that wants to look at something as spectacular as is possible, the more maneuvers the better.

The future of Big Wave Surfing must revolve around the main stream TV producers to generate enough revenue to operate. There is not enough participation in it to get the boardshort manufacturers interested, and most of these are struggling anyway. So they must generate an alternative source of income which means selling out to those companies that have funds to spend and that is non surfing companies and main stream TV (ESPN). But for ESPN to get really interested it will need to be more spectacular than yes, that is a very big wave but he is just standing if front of the white water and so is the next guy. Unfortunately not every big wave comp will be held at Jaws or Teahupoo and most of the other waves are not really performance waves for the paddle in guys.

It will be a sell out for some but just a commercial reality for those that choose to participate in what is a very expensive way of life. As a professional athlete, you do what you are paid to do by whoever it is that is signing the cheques and that will be non traditional companies for non surfers to watch and marvel at how dangerous each ride will look and not how dangerous or hard it actually was. And if that is too much of a sell out, that will be too bad.

reecen's picture
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reecen commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 2:46pm

Enter JOB and step offs at Jaws

reecen's picture
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reecen commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 2:47pm

I should edit that, step offs a board paddled in not off a jet ski

southey's picture
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southey commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:06pm

imagine having to ditch two boards in the event of getting caught inside though ....
the other issue , was he literally almost gets blown off whilst holding the shorty at pipe , imagine the wind drag at exposed spots like jaws ...... :-(
he would have to employ the quick switch as he takes off ( ie before the drop ) , and many of the ones i've seen him do at pipe he actually bottom turns first ...
anyway , while we are at , perhaps Laird or Poto will start using a tow board as their paddle whilst SUP'ing ..... again carnage in the event of failure .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:14pm

Seems a bizarre argument to me: like something penned by Lairds publicist in a last ditch effort to convince the general public that his bold predictions of a decade ago about the dominance of Tow Surfing and the irrelevance of paddle surfing still held true.

Of course, anyone with anything more than a passing interest in the culture can see that the reverse is true.
The cool, the jazz, the interest from the elite participants and the media froth is all with the New Wave of Giant Paddle surfing.
Tow surfing has become relegated to a slightly dorky pursuit conducted by middle aged men with bellies, supermodels with intermediate skill sets and German kiteboarders who can't paddle in.

Look at the current footage of paddle surfing Jaws. Tow surfing has become practically extinct at the wave that made it famous. It' ain't cool anymore and the progression in Big Wave Paddle surfing is just getting started there. Deep tube rides on massive surf are the new pinnacle and big wave board design is accompanying that goal.

I tried to pitch a story idea to one of the seppo mags with a heavy tow component and the response was that the mag wasn't interested in tow surfing. People were sick of it.

Maybe in the Grand Sweep of History you'll be proven right BB but certainly right now and into the forseeable future, standing on the cusp of the Mavs event and more and more Giant waves being paddled, you couldn't be more wrong.

Craig's picture
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Craig commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:25pm

I have to agree with Steve,

Never before has there been a bigger push towards paddling over towing, and now spots renowned for towing are seeing the resurgence in this more purer pursuit in surfing, with the tow teams having to leave the skis in the sheds.

Wave like Chopes reach a certain size in which can't be paddled any more and have to be towed, but other waves like Cow, YB, Jaws, Cortes and other deep water reefs may see some conflict as the paddlers keep pushing bigger and the skis have to wait by the side.

reecen's picture
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reecen commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:28pm

It still has its place at mutant slabs, shippies, the right, massive chopes.
Towing won't be going away until someone works out how to get into those under your own steam.
Cant see it ever getting a foothold again in places like Jaws, Cloudbreak etc etc. the bar has been raised again by paddle surfers and I don't reckon they will let the skis back in to those joints. especially seeing the size of the crowd at Jaws the other day.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:38pm

My point isn't mainly about popularity or profit though those may come, it is about where we can expect the most radical developments in performance and much as I admire those driving the paddle in resurgence, I don't think it can compete on high performance. And that is not the same as degree of difficulty

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:39pm

That session at Cloudbreak during the Volcom Pro was actually a death knell for the careers of slab chasers.

Suddenly, during the course of a single day the game had changed.

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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:42pm

The most radical developments in performance will come where the most skilled and committed adherents are plying their craft.

For Big Wave Surfing, now and into the forseeable future, that is paddle-in.

Ten years ago your argument would have been unimpeachable. Now it just sounds faintly contrarian.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:50pm

...well maybe freeride but I just kept looking at the paddle in footage and the tow in footage and I can't see that it's even a close contest. They are going more slowly and doing fewer turns in less critical sections. My own instincts are those of a purist, in the past I have knocked back chances to tow in but the future we get isn't necessarily the one we want.

udo's picture
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udo commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:50pm

brad norris 60 seconds on surfline, the right I think ? will this/could this ever be paddled ?

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:53pm

hmm where do I start......RCJ towed Sunset the day before Xmas in 12' plus waves big rippy nearly unsurfable ,well was for 2 hrs ,RCJ rode a 5 9 x 17 1/4 x 1 1/2...and tore the place to shreds...guys like carlos Burle were blown away.....he looked like Jon Jon....big sweeping turns and hacks off the top....hmmmm

there are certain waves in the world where paddling in is just plain boring for guys like RCJ who want to surf 15' + waves like a 4 'point break.....being clocked at twice the speed of a paddle board and 1/2 the size and ripping big turns .....

paddling is a personal adrenalin rush........and takes serious gonads....

Tow surfing is way more performance and opens up another realm to s/bd design how to go faster and tear the bag out of big waves... and how do you get a board to go 80KPH and carve....??

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:55pm

Depends which tow footage you look at BB.

The largest ever stuff they rode at Nazare was going straight ahead on massive mushburgers that barely broke.

And you could easily argue that performance levels towsurfing quickly plateaued and the only performance index that counted- actually swinging and digging in and paddling on the biggest, meanest wave- had a long way to go.

The future is being written by the kids and the young have abandoned the rope and are paddling.

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:57pm

And thats all due respect to you Maurice and RCJ.

But the kids don't want to be RCJ, they want to be Shane Dorian.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 3:57pm

.....can't resist a plug brutus. How do you get a board to do 80km/hr? Like this presumably....

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=887oTdGshzM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D887o...

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:11pm

BB....not interested in plugging my stuff in OZ......but the question was raised Tow VS Paddle.....

I shape both big paddle bds for Jaws,Waimea/Mavs/Avalanche etc and also make Tow bds now just for friends......

if ya want to discuss the merits etc ...I'm in ,if it becomes an ugly commercial blah blah ....I'm not interested...

just so ya know I am just making bds O/S now ,and have semi-retired in OZ......

but am willing to discuss merits of both as I make some of the bds for some of our best surfers like mark Mathews/RCJ/Noah Johnson etc..and chat a lot to Shane D etc..but lets not make it a shit fight please!!!!

caml's picture
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caml commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:13pm

blindboy you just wrote this thread to get our attention ! absurd

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:13pm

Seems like everyone here is playing the ball and not the man.

It'd be interesting to hear what you were able to transfer over from the towsurfing design realm back into paddle boards for big surf.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:15pm

.......being of Scottish ancestry caml, I feel confident the judge would return a not proven verdict on that, but of course we would love to hear your opinion.

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:25pm

freeride.......so far so good......what we have learnt from tow for paddle bds is how low a rockers we can use,edges,and less volume in rails.......also using double foiled tow fins is a must for the higher speeds.....

using Quads has also reduced the time in getting from the top to about 3/4 down the face where you need to start leaning and not run out the bottom and try and do a turn...so lots of hydrodynamic principles are currently being incorporated into getting a paddle surfer into the wave and then make it to the channel

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:30pm

What about speed comparisons brutus? What speeds are they reaching on paddle ins?

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:41pm

not sure BB......would have to be excess of 50 kPH........maybe even 60+......but you are limited by all the wetted surface area,so a Tow bd will aso be much faster......

always wondered if someone should go for the Guiness book of records for the fastest surfer ..paddle and tow!

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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:45pm

Interesting idea. Water speed or air speed?

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 4:54pm

Hmmm......that would be interesting to see frefall speed VS actual water speed

wellymon's picture
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wellymon commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 5:28pm

I was wondering yesterday why SN's article/threads are so paddle orientated and lo'n'behold look what the community has got to chew over here.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 5:41pm

Probably tricky to measure either brutus. Wind and surface chop make direct measurement difficult. A radar gun would only be accurate if the surfer was travelling directly towards it. There must be a tech head out there with a solution though.

shoredump's picture
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shoredump commented Wednesday, 22 Jan 2014 at 6:40pm

All due respect to Shaun Walsh here for what is a big beautiful drop into barrel combo, lucky bugger, but am I the only person that sees an amazing barrel going off untouched as his paddle board attempts to catch the wave? Nope I reckon Blindboy, Brutus & RCJ saw that too. Imagine backdoor ing this thing and riding it from the start. Twice as tall, twice as round and three times as long! If paddle surfing can get to that point then great, if it can't, then tow surfing has a great future in big wave performance surfing.

Shaun's wave:
http://youtu.be/E6TWUUPjo30

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southey commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 12:31am

Brutus ... Its clear you guys have taken some of your tow board ideas from slalom waterski's , in regards to length and depth of the concave . And yes RCJ rips , but have you guys ever spoken to the guys that are elite at slalom waterskiing , we are talking similar speeds , and although there is gradient in the wave face that you guys are turning on , and the skiers are still holding on the rope . But , If you take time to watch it ( as boring as it is ) they actually perform their turns in/ during the slack of the rope .
The boats constant speed is around 36Mph ( 60 k's ) , but when they are crossing the wake the skier is probably going closer to 60-70Mph ( 100-110 k's ) , there are weight transfers and lots of technical stuff going on in short time periods / physical arcs . Obviously RCJ is at the top of his game , but i feel thats where you guys could draw some inspiration from outside of our sport ...
for instance , I'm personally no where near that level , but i have noticed some of the newer " carbon fibre " slalom waterski's actually have a fair bit of flex in the tail when you give 'em a good rip through a turn , which actually accelerates you out of them ..... was it cheyne horan or someone in the 80's that were trialing flex tails ? Obviously this level of performance could only be matched in Pristine sea surface conditions , but many tow waves create clean faces from the water being sucked off the reef ....
anyway , a little off track but to answer " the where to next at 80k's thoughts "
i presumed this was poignant . also i think others and myself included appreciate alot of the free insights you give to this site .
ta . Pete

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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brutus commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 2:17am

Hi BB...the problem with a radar gun is it will measure also the speed of the wave.....we thought about this years ago if you add the wave speed to the hull speed..you would get well inxcess of a 1io KPH as swells in the southern ocean travel at around 30KPH ...
the GPS system used at the Qik/snapper pro measured 4 4K's.....
RJ was clocked behind a helicon at 87KPH.........I have actually driven RCJ at close to 70KPH onto a wave......which means when he does his bottom turn its faster again........a project in the offing.......

yeah shoredump,when those amazing big barrels were going down at Cloudbreak a few years ago we actually saw the waves being able to be backdoored off the peak where the paddle guys were getting in......same as Jaws.....really wonder what the performance levels would be now...big deep barrels high speed hacks...yewwwww,

Hi Southey never really seen a slalom water ski,but am now going to track one down to have a look.......the concaves we use which are up to 3/4" deep have slowly evolved to this point over the last 6=7 years...as RCJ just wants to go faster and carve at higher speeds...so it all comes down to less wetted surface area....spoke t the Hydronamic head of the USA Americas cup a few years ago as he saw my tow bds at Sacred Craft in Del Mar Cal......learnt soooo much.....

as for the texture of the wave we always try and get the second wave never the first as bumpy big waves are a nightmare when you hit them at high speed...so at Jaws they had those back of the foot straps to hold you into the straps ....as Jaws is never clean always bumpy....so second or 3rd wave it is......and hopefully no froth from the preceding wave......

hey we use carbon sandwiched construction tow bds as they are only 1 1/2 thick and we need the stiffness so that when the bd fexs and Torques,there is instant memory/pop like flex in a fin .........ahhh the journey continues......more speed,no cavitation.....

freeride76's picture
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freeride76 commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 7:35am

Btw BB, I was just thinking this morning how long it was since I'd seen a decent clip of high performance big wave tow surfing.

Got any recent clips which might back up your premise?

Not straight ahead Adolph at Nazare or getting towed into a slab but proper high performance tow like Laird and RCJ were doing at Jaws, Papatowi etc etc

braithy's picture
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braithy commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 8:13am

The hand-to-hand combat element of paddle surfing big, huge waves holds more appeal (to me) than any pinnacle of performance that could ever be achieved by towing.

I had an alcoholic mate from school. He started drinking friday arvy, and didn't stop until about midnight on a sunday night, still does to this day as he approaches 40. No sleep, no food, just beer and whiskey.

If you dared order a plate of food in his company at the surf club, he'd swipe the food from the table and bellow, EATIN'S CHEATIN'!!

Then security would escort him from the building until the following weekend.

... Well towing is cheating.

udo's picture
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udo commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 8:22am

a man that should be there paddling jaws along side dorian
laurie towner recently axed by billabong ?

brutus's picture
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brutus commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 9:49am

braithy how about paddling some of those slabs in WA...cheating???

Freeride...Chopes???

Laurie Axed really.....shit he's the next generation of Lairds etc....ahhhhh

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braithy commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 9:20am

Look, don't get me wrong MC, the guys who tow those slabs off WA have big massive balls.

But the fitness and skill to let go of a tow rope and find a line, compared to paddling out on a 10'6", finding a spot in the lineup, waiting for your set, and paddling for it, cannot be compared.

For me, if it's a choice between, watching guys tow into thicker than it is high Teahupo'o or guys paddling huge Cloudbreak, Waimea or Jaws ... I'd watch 8 hours straight of the paddle crew.

After watching a few tow waves, they all seem to look the same at these massive --unpaddable -- slab breaks.

Just my personal preference. Respect to all that surf any wave over 12-15 feet. Just a little bit more to the paddle guys. haha.

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southey commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 9:50am

Braithy .... Do we know each other ??? i promise to try not get kicked out this w'end ...
Udo , but laurie really want to . obvioulsy he has the talent , is he a fitness compulsive ?
Brutus , are u still in Torquay ? I could be in the area in the next week to show you a really old wakeboard i have that is seriously basic , but by accident pretty much mirrors some recent tow boards i've seen dimension wise . and i can confirm that its been ridden ( behind a boat ) in the 60-70 mph zone .... fins are wrong for surfing though . I still shake my head when i realise that it was designed ( roughly , all be it ) in the mid eightees .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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lolo commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 9:52am

I guess it's how you define performance BB. It's a fallacious arguement to try and break it down to pure performance levels. A 9 ft+ gun will never be able to match a sub-6ft tow-board anywhere and no amount of design improvement will ever change that. They're practically different sports. It's like trying to compare a F1 car to a road car.

From my point of view, the real major leap forward in surfing performance recently has been the paddle in resurgence at the big wave spots and that can only continue with the focus on it and the rise of things like the BWWT. Look at all the frothing over the N Pacific swell this week and the Eddie and Mav's events. Does anyone really care that Laird, Garret or RCJ are out towing? Are 50 year olds really where high-performance surfing is at now?

The media seem to be completely ignoring your contention that "the media that will determine the path to the future and the imagery generated by tow in give it a huge advantage." We've had 15 years since Laird's millenium wave shocked the world. Tow surfing has had its time in the sun and is old news now.

blindboy's picture
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blindboy commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 9:58am

It's interesting that the point I thought would be most controversial hasn't even been mentioned.......that ordinary surfing is reaching a plateau that it will find difficult to ascend from.

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brutus commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 10:38am

hey Lolo...maybe Laird/RCJGarret have already had their adrenalin rush from paddling and just prefer performance as its so much more fun.....remember fun?

I know that their a lot of younger guys towing in WA ,Shipsterns slabs etc.....old news Hmmm......I wonder if they are towing or paddlingJaws today...its over 50'...Hmm I wonder what the limits of paddling are did Jamie Mitchell reach it at Bela????

I know one thing..the biggest wave that will ever be ridden will be towed into not paddled......Limits....??

does anyone care when Chopes is towed into maybe ask Koa Rothman orNatahn fletcher??

Hey Southey ,sorry won't be home till end of Feb or a month only...but am getting some slalom bds to look at over here.....

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southey commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 10:54am

Brutus , most of the slalom waterski designers & manufacturers are based in USA . As the market over there is huge . And the yanks have always been yanks , in which they lead the world in that sort of sport . Thats not downplaying Ozzies either , who incidently are the hands down best at Speed skiing , its just taht theres far more money in that sport over there .... " sound familiar " .
The board i was going to show you is an Aussie thing though , and to my knowledge the early yank equivalents were far different ....
Out of interest , have you or Ross or anyone else tried those winged fins or something similar to try and maintain fin contact at high speeds in choppy water .? many of the slalom ski's use them but are adjustable ....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

benski's picture
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benski commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 11:06am

blindboy, that's why I logged in to comment on this.

It's always seemed a dangerous line to say progression has reached its peak, or everything has been discovered, or something along those lines (improvements only at the margins). I guess it's harder to see the potential gains when your perspective has been shaped by the preceding ones. Or something.

Anyway, I think the next generation of performance has to be the link between surfing and snowboarding - switchfoot riding. Hynd and the alaia crowd have shown how you can ride without fins. Combine that with switch and you've opened up a new array of manouvres. Or at least, a new approach to the wave, eg. boost an air but land switch and surf on that way. I think there's a bit of potential there.

But essentially, no matter what happens it's always going to be about catching the wave and riding it for as long as possible, as stylishly as possible.

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mikehunt207 commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 11:12am

Swellnet forums getting slow? Just rehash the paddle tow argument to start up the hit fest , that should your advertisers happy bb.

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stunet commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 11:34am

That cycnicism must just eat you up, eh Mr Cunt? Not sure why I'm bothering but here goes:

I didn't brief BB on this topic, he submitted it of his own free will.
BB doesn't work for Swellnet.
In the whole time I've worked for Swellnet I've never spoken to an advertiser.

Further, this column accounts for about 1% of hits on all of Swellnet. When you insinuate manipulation you betray your own cluelessness about the online economy and belittle those who have something valid to say. Fuck the old media model of gatekeepers and editors, on here you can say anything you want but be prepared to cop it when your argument is found wanting.

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southey commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 11:25am

Brutus ,
Done some digging .... spoke to the water ski shop owner i brought the board off .... lo and behold it turns out that its derived from surfing .
In the early 80's Bruce Mckee started a design called the McSki , obviously before its time and the two sports were miles apart so didn't take off much . He on sells or licences it to Vel Aqua ( Vic - waterski manufacturer ) and they name it the SSS Wake Snake ...... Anyway its all available to see on Bruce's Mckee surf site ..... Small world .
I presume you guys already know each other , as he is another person thats reasonably marketing savvy , but focused on pure design . Anyway " apparently " Bruce " is / was a pretty good waterskier , so after you look at the latest ski's in the US maybe chat to Bruce on theories of where you could use cross over methods .......
All this time , i had thought that some waterski guy had fluked the perfect tow board template , coincidently i had discussed with Dave Kalama about using it for a ' Foil board ........

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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udo commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 12:15pm

Wikipedia has a page on McKee and skurfing.
and stabmag have Jamie Obrien and kalani chapman paddling 25ft jaws on soft top surfboards.

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southey commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 12:14pm

yeah bruce missed the boat .... so to speak
Al Byrne coined the word skurfing when shaping /giving boards to Jeff Darby and later Tony Finn . Bruce's board were first and he tried to do a deal with Tony to distribute in the US , but tony had other ideas and with Jeff coined the word skurfer for skurfing , and went heel bent on the promotion front over there in the US . He later joins forces with HO ( Obrien ski's ) who were the first to do the thin compression boards ( which was the advent of wake boarding ) and started
" liquid force " . So if anyone ever sees Tony , give him a fist to the face for starting that bullshit bogan sport that is now termed wankboarding .... seriously though if there was ever a more hyped up sport ..... massive boats , massive ski towers and massive speakers ...... boring
oh hang on , is Surfing heading that way with Zosea ??? is it already there?

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 12:39pm

An obvious key to increasing performance as forces increase, is increasing strength, size and fitness, especially when talking about heavier, bigger boards, the added weight of flotation devices, more wind, more chop, etc. For instance, even tennis players have racquets weighted, and tensioned to their size and strength levels. If it was suddenly deemed necessary to have heavier balls, heavier racquets, heavier uniforms, the lighter, less strong players would be disadvantaged. When rugby teams try training in the NFL protective armour, which is designed to be as light as possible, they are shocked at how much that little bit of extra weight affects their performance. Surfing is still miles behind other sports in the fitness field, and there is much room for improvement there, which means much room for improvement in the actual surfing. The Richie Vaculik foray into MMA highlights the weight thing, as he soon discovered he was at a severe disadvantage against heavier, stronger, fitter opponents. And even in his own weight class, he is learning much about disciplined training, and just how hard elite athletes train.

Years ago all the sports resisted weight/resistance training, ignorantly citing the loss of performance arguments. Now they rely on it, and it has taken the athletes performance levels to a whole new level. Evander Holyfield credits weight training as the key to boosting his performance to a level that enabled him to knockout Tyson. He actually overpowered Tyson, the first time anyone had been able to do it. Athletes even risk being banned for life for using drugs which build muscle. Black Caviar is touted as the greatest sprinter ever, and as the biggest also. No doubt the old guard will feel threatened, confused, and resist to the end, as happened in other sports, but one day, and by necessity in that big wave area there will be athletes never before seen in surfing. Weight classes exsist for a reason in sports. If not, do away with them and see the result.

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brutus commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 1:01pm

heu Mike...not sure what you are talking about as a lot of what has been said on this forum is of a tech nature. Not sure if it goes over your head and you don't understand some of the tech stuff I have passed on .......FFS if you think its just some commercial beat off.........don't read it or comment!!

hey Stu tell us what ya really think!

Bruce McKee...wow...designer extrordinaire....4 fin Guru....bloody great bloke and good surfer...hung out a lot in the 80's and 90 's with him in France and Spain .....never knew he was a water skier...stoked to hear he had a positive impact ....anybody know where he is now???

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blindboy commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 1:06pm

Hey uplift tell us what you think of this.

http://lairdhamilton.com/pages/strength-training-workout

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southey commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 1:34pm

Brut ,
" http://www.mckeesurf.com/?page_id=71e , "

Of special interest check out the " Sports " section ,
sub heading wakeboarding ... there are a few video's on the RHS .
check out the MckeeHO one . this was mid to late 80's . and tell me this is NOT where you and RCJ want to go . ( obviously in relation to turn speed , as opposed to fucking around behind boats in rivers )

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 1:28pm

Gidday Blindboy, some parts I really liked. Some parts like trying to train on a balance board, have long ago been shown to actually decrease strength and athletic performance. Also, allowing momentum (using an ever improving skill) to perform the work, rather than forcing the muscles to do it unaided, makes it easier, not harder for them, something I just love demonstrating, and something that you have experienced. So, the body is a meter, you can't fool it, and it responds accordingly.

But, the most important thing is, look what he's attempting to do. If I show people who have no idea about surfing, tow surfing, and they see Laird Hamilton, he stands out to them. The guy that turns and stuff. By increasing his strength, size, his performance follows and he is a standout.

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mikehunt207 commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 5:27pm

Wow , stunet ! and i thought personal insults were banned from these pages (re fig jam rolls quest for fame era) .
I had not realised that swellnet was a charity offering free surfing info and forums for one and all, I had thought it was a business selling online advertising to be slipped to it,s readers on the side? Ben deals with the advertisers?so maybe stu,s left to check for spelling mistakes and profanity. Careful Brutus this is not an advertising website, don,t you sell towboards ?? How many fins do I need??

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wellymon commented Thursday, 23 Jan 2014 at 8:12pm

IMO tow surfing big waves has it hands down over paddling for big waves as regards to performance levels.
Speed is the No 1 key player here with out a doubt, then the tow board being able to manage the speed at varying levels, then the rider.
With new technology in materials and lots of riding time! I think tow boards will advance in design, that will enhance high performance surfing in big waves ten-fold.
The big factors about design development with all riding boards is the time spent riding them and the feed back from the rider. I think this where tow in surfing has and will advance further with board design, which will benefit board designs for the big wave paddle in surfer.
The amount of people who are dedicated to this style of surfing is a minority, so I feel this is why tow in surfing did not advance so much compared to paddle in. since it showed in the 90's !
Not ever sure about tow in surfing becoming the main game, the expense and logistics chasing big waves around the world is out of the game for the norm.

One last thing I know for sure is that there are not many surfers that can do high speed carves on a critical part of the wave at 80 km/hr smoothly and in control. That takes many hours of high speed riding time :)

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:41am

mike,as you haven't read all this forum...you missed the part where I don't commercially make towbds or guns in Australia,I have semi-retired now in OZ ,and do most of my business O/S......so I have no commercial interest at all in these forums,or Australia for that matter......

I make bds for friends,and no you cannot get a tow bd or a gun or a shortboard......is that clear to you??

If you want a board,you have to get it in Hawaii,Japan,USA,Brazil,France or UK........these are my commercial markets,NOT Australia....and I also do not do any interviews in Australia !!

so I come on here when I see people asking questions that I might be able to answer as a way of imparting knowledge,or my version of it...pretty simple....

As for ya silly comments on Swellnet's commercialization of the Forums.......what kind of a Neanderthal are you...??

I choose swellnet because of how easy and often the subject matter is interesting to me like Tow VS Paddle.......seems like you need to visit other sites or just stop whingeing.......are you a pommy at all???

Hey Southry thanx for the heads up

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:49am

Southey,very interesting website.learnt a lot about Bruce,what a humble guy,spent so many years with him,he just never told me the fullstory.....

just for the record,I am a far way along the design curve on the Tow bds,to the point where guys are using em as kite bds with amazing results and also s/bds are very tow inspired...as are some of my new SUP etc.......

guys don't get on me for making commercial advertising ,just explained to ol mate mike my commercial status in OZ.....actually really loking forward to coming home in a month a just being a grand dad and making a few friends bds surfing,familly then back to work O/S till August......

hope some of what I said here sorted out a few questions and I learnt also....now that's what ya call a win win....

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southey commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 5:22am

Brutus ,

I wasn't trying to tell you how to suck eggs , being a Victorian I'm well aware of your shaping prowess .
You mentioned speed and performance , and an alarm went off in my head of how much i noticed an improvement recently in the latest waterski's , especially in relation to their being a whippy flex in the tail that actually drove you out of turns ..... again tunnels and deep concave are now old hat in both sports . maybe it was your influence ( unsure who his shaper was ) , but the first serious concave ( 25mm + ) that ran right through to the fins was on a board of Simon McShane was riding whilst up NW . By the time i got back ( a fair time later ) to visit home and pickup a couple new boards off Mick Pierce , he was onto 'em aswell . this was around 2004 or 6 ??? anyway till this day i haven't been faster on a Surfboard than one ( small board for me ) of those MP boards at solid G-Land . Got a full drainer in close on the reef that looked like a closeout , but i just kept making each section ..... serious speed.

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 11:31am

hey guys go and check out Surflines tow session at Jaws yesterday....hmmmm......Laird,Ian Walsh ..no paddlers....

hey Southey no dramas with anything you have said and as you know I am a great mate with MP so stoked to get some great info off ya......more please

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stunet commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 12:32pm

brutus wrote: hey guys go and check out Surflines tow session at Jaws yesterday....hmmmm......Laird,Ian Walsh ..no paddlers....

TBH Brutus, I was a tad underwhelmed by the waves shown on Surfline. Huge, no doubt about it, but there wasn't much going on in terms of 'performance'.

Check the first wave in this vid here. It was also filmed y/day morning and depsite the atrocious filming - zoom! focus! - you can see the surfer lays down two carving top turns. Would love to see a better quality video of the wave.

 

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 12:48pm

Got to agree, watched it a moment ago and thought to myself I hope that is not the the leaps ahead in performance that people are talking about with towing?
I am frothing to see what guys like JOB and those crew are going to do out here on paddle days, they are already starting to play with the joint on soft tops and getting towed in on hotdogs, I reckon we are going to see something like the Tommy "Snap" out there from someone on a big paddle gun in the near future.

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:09pm

Hey guys

do ya get that there are 1mtr lumps and bumps all over the waves...impossible to paddle,not great performance because of the conditions... devil wind into the tube....and was not as big but.........impossible to paddle.

checked out the previous couple of Jaws days where it was clean great surfing few nice barrels...a tow bd on one of these days...Hmmmmm

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:17pm

That's the whole point isn't it Brutus? People are paddling on those good days now because they can and they are pushing the boundaries every time there is a session. The development since the paddlers started getting back into the big stuff has been nothing short of amazing I reckon.
Wont be long before there is another defining moment in surfing and I reckon it will come from paddle surfing big waves.
There will always be days when you cant paddle.

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:35pm

hey reecen..the problem with the paddle bds is they weigh around 25lb plus and are so hard to turn and navigate thru chop...this limits the performance potential as its like a big pendulum under your feet......which limits how much you can do on a wave.....

spoke Shane D this winter on how his 11 2 x 22 x 4 1/2 went....easy to catch the wave but just couldn't turn it....he's about 72 KG's and rides a 10 6 x 21 x 3 78....at 25Lbs +......take off set the angle and get to the channel....what an adrenalin rush......but as far as actual performance goes,I think we might be seeing the limits already being reached now......hope I am wrong....

but I know what can be done on a tow bd in big clean waves....high speed turns and carves.....like riding ' winki..........but 20' plus...but oops no commercial footage available......

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 1:51pm

I don't disagree that with small boards you can surf differently, but I do think that now with the amount of people getting into paddling big waves all around the world (way more then had / have access to towing) that you are going to see the boundaries pushed every big swell and people develop the potential of paddle boards and paddling into big waves significantly.
Anyway I don't think it is a them against us thing, I just think that most people right now are more interested in the paddle surfing.

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 2:47pm

I agree reecen that there is more interest right now in paddling and rightfully so.......new boundaries are being explored and equipment is better ,inflatable vests have been developed,guys are training like never before......pushing physical ,and mental boundaries,true sense of pioneering........

remember there is an unwritten rule if there are paddlers no skis .....so we have been limite to see tow progress because of this and I also believe the quad Tow bds limited performance.....

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stunet commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 2:51pm

brutus wrote: I also believe the quad Tow bds limited performance.....

Really..? Too much drag?

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brutus commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 3:06pm

nah.....its actually when you drive off the bottom they are great but when ya have to do a high speed top turn carve,with the quads when you transition from the forehand rail to the backside rail, for a split second in between the transition you have to back off and pivot more ....whereas on a tri-fin...you actually can transition using the the central fin to drive off and accelerate in the transition.......

I think quads were originally used as they go a bit faster without the central fin,do a great bottom and get ya to the channel.....

I personally liked the challenge of making a faster hull that actually could carve at high speeds...that's what RCJ wanted.....and did we have fun getting to where we are....ah the stories .......the journey....

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blindboy commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 3:09pm

.......it would be great to hear the whole story brutus. I hope you have some plans to get it down in one form or another.

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 6:45pm

'spoke Shane D this winter on how his 11 2 x 22 x 4 1/2 went....easy to catch the wave but just couldn't turn it....he's about 72 KG's and rides a 10 6 x 21 x 3 78....at 25Lbs +'

72 kg. True, that's always going to be a problem in that total environment. I'd like to see the 30kg heavier, much stronger, faster version, with much more explosive power, and even better coordination, and timing.

Those waves last around 10 - 12 secs each.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq2CBdH4FNo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7BeD5--vBI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNkMtAxaqK4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu_RLy1wgmE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmtOHpieR4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8QP1nmEukk

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 6:53pm

Perfect lead in for you hey uppity........
On those waves with those boards, the bigger the human the better for sure.

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 7:04pm

Yeh, but its not just the size reecen, elite athleticism, with size and power doesn't go astray. Again, its why weight classes exist in man on man sports.

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 7:08pm

obviously

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 7:14pm

'obviously'

You'd think so.

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 8:33pm

Yeah but you seem to think one size (massive) fits all. It doesn't. That's why Kelly slater isn't built like a bricks shit house but is the best surfer of all time.

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 8:48pm

And a bigger, stronger, more powerfull, faster, more athletic version of Slater? You are right, the answer is obvious.

Slater passed on the best ever Fiji. When he towed with Laird years ago, he was far from a standout. Would he win a genuine big wave comp? Or, would he surf the same, wearing protective gear, with much bigger, heavier boards?

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goofyfoot commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 4:43pm

uplift wrote: And a bigger, stronger, more powerfull, faster, more athletic version of Slater? You are right, the answer is obvious.

Slater passed on the best ever Fiji. When he towed with Laird years ago, he was far from a standout. Would he win a genuine big wave comp? Or, would he surf the same, wearing protective gear, with much bigger, heavier boards?

Would Slater win a genuine big wave comp? What, you mean like the Eddie?

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blindboy commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 8:48pm

I think that is a valid point uplift from what I can see tow surfing in serious waves requires much more strength.....to go back to your earlier comment, it might even need weight divisions in a contest!

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 8:56pm

Plenty of people bigger and stronger then slater yet none of them are anywhere even moderately close to beating him??????
Most of the Tim it isn't 100 ft with 10 ft chops when being massive is a huge advantage.
Horses for courses you might say.
Like when the grommets are ruling the tiny days because their light weight is an advantage.

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blindboy commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 9:02pm

Well reecen the grommets rule until a pro turns up. I think I would back Slater or Fanning against the groms no matter how small it was. At that size it is speed of movement above all. At the other end of the scale strength becomes important. I mean try to imagine hitting a turn at 70km/hr. You would need thighs like friggin' tree trunks or your knees would buckle.

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 9:11pm

'I mean try to imagine hitting a turn at 70km/hr. You would need thighs like friggin' tree trunks or your knees would buckle.'

Just like a downhill speed racer (squat masters), or Olympic speed skater, or sprint cyclist. Any explosive athlete.

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 9:33pm

Fuck this is the same stupid argument again.
The grommets rule because they are small in small waves where a muscle bound uplift would sink and the size board he would need to rip like a grommet wouldn't be responsive enough. Look at the little brazos they go nuts in the small stuff.
Most of the time there is a mix of strength and agility required to do both the gymnastic and power maneuvers.
If it is giant the bigger, stronger and heavier you are the better as long as you can move still and know how to absorb shocks.

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 10:01pm

'and the size board he would need wouldn't be responsive enough'

Certainly not at present, where designers have been almost bound to work with flyweight athletes for years, if they wished to remain crudable.

Even judo, where according to fairytales, little guys can overpower anyone with skill alone, weight rules. Weight Divisions.

Slater has easily proven that he is the best Pro Surfer ever. But, that is Pro Surfing and all that that means. I mentioned once before, he got a cover years ago as the best wave of the year at Gland. After he had faded Camel, who had already surfed the most difficult part from way, way inside. It was actually Camel who surfed that best wave the best. But, that didn't suit the marketers.

And, the marketers, despite their best attempts, haven't suited the market for years and years, since Pro Surfing's inception. The market, the budget, in all its glory, is presently filming Laird in,

'100 ft with 10 ft chops.'

If the market stays true to long demonstrated form, then,

'100 ft with 10 ft chops'

will prove irresistible.

Or, more to the point, the elite athletes who manage to stand out will.

As blindboy highlighted in a requiem subject, its built in, unconscious, ingrained. Two ways out. Shit, you gonna go the 3 foot bronzy, or the 25 foot pointer?

'Hey I know, I'll take the slow, muscle bound pointer, that bronzies a fast little fucker, and does yoga too.'

'Shit look, the world's biggest wave comp is on. Nah, give it a miss, the 3 Poles, smallest wave ever champs is on, better rush, mightn't get a seat...' Osy's comin' in at 39.4444999kg...

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reecen commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 10:10pm

Fuck it is so simple all marketers should just apply uplifts principles of sport. Federer could just win all his matches by technical forfeit after he punches a tennis ball straight through his opponents head. Golf won't be anything except mountains of men smashing balls into the stratosphere on salt lakes. Badminton don't even get me started on that match between Igor Ishitmuscles and Vlad the Impalar shit got down right nasty on court 3.
It's all so simple in upskirts head

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uplift commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 10:21pm

'It's all so simple in upskirts head'.

That's because as you said, it 'obviously' is. As the record unfailingly demonstrates, a bigger, faster, stronger, more powerful, more robust, more durable, more athletic, so even more confident, inventive and skilful under pressure version of Federer, will always win. Weight divisions. Or, do away with them and see what happens, simple.

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hem-stret commented Friday, 24 Jan 2014 at 10:57pm

The only fellas Ive seen doing turns worth watching on tow are Egan, Holmer- Cross and Ross Clarke Jones. If you are a 50kg monkey(like most pro surfers) then you are boring. Use your fucken arms!

A drop knee cutback to the foam

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wellymon commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:01am

When it comes to dealing with turns at high speed you need really strong legs and core, strong legs don't mean big legs, but a lot stronger than the average bong smoking skinny average surfers little pins that are the norm.
It takes riding time and training.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:41am

'When it comes to dealing with turns at high speed you need really strong legs and core,'

True. 'Core.' The biggest misconception though. Core starts with glutes. Easily the biggest, most powerfull, most explosive muscle in the body. And linked are lower back, hamstring, quad. The core drivers. Power base equals glutes.Then the abdominal region, bracing. Quads without glutes are common in the general public, and in the unwise athlete, and equal less performance, plus fucked knees in the long run. As are abs without core, which equals less performance and in the long run, fucked back. As much as I'm sacrificing myself here, if you look at elite, explosive athletes, its all about glutes first. If you look at top surfers... oh, oh! No power!

Ben Johnson did everything in his power, including getting rubbed out for life to get a bigger and bigger core. Which equals a more explosive, faster, and stronger core. He wasn't at all afraid of getting slower, less performance with the legendary size and strength. He just got faster and faster. You can get ridiculously stronger at the same bodyweight. But, there they are, those fucking weight classes... who said a good big man will always beat a good small man! Pricks! The never ending, unfailing record says it. Fuck the weight classes, its bullshit!!! It'll make ya slow!!! 'But coach...' 'Shutup, put those weights down and practise ya fucking balancing!' 'But coach, I'm just a flyweight champ, and he's a heavyweight champ...'

Newsflash, Coach 'Wellymon' charged with pre-meditated manslaughter. As he hosed his man out of the ring, his eyes welled with tears... 'me boy had 'im, lucky fuckin' prick...'

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hem-stret commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:44am

what the f is wrong with hooter? Flexibility, strength and power are all sapped by shithouse TV , being , stuck in traffic, paying rates, boring jobs and drinking alcohol. The issue of testosterone is a 00's issue, WTF would a healthy male and a fit healthy female need Viagra or Cialis for?

A drop knee cutback to the foam

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hem-stret commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 8:57am

.

A drop knee cutback to the foam

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reecen commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 2:07am

It is ridiculous that you think every sport needs an American football DEFENCE style build to make the most of it. Different sports have different goals and requirementts you bone head. This translates to different body types to be the most efficient and spevialised at the particular sport.
Look at the boys from the SAS and most of them don't look like the universal soldier instead they have a pretty normal body shape maybe a bit stokier the most. They are trained for both stamina and power.
To compare against Ben Johnston is just retarded uplift. How is 100m sprinting in any way connected to surfing in general.

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 1:23am

Dotssy, dottsy, dott's! Thats where, and why you are so, so, so very confused, frustrated, dittsy in fact, because you haven't competed against or with, or trained with any elite athletes. I have, simple. The videos I posted all highlighted explosive offense. You just can't get it. How could you though? The waves last for 10 - 12 secs. What is increasing at jaws? Time? Or intensity, size, mass, force and power on all fronts? Where does the explosive power come from to deal with it? What does that mean, to you, as very confused and frustrated... dot's?

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hem-stret commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 8:56am

.

A drop knee cutback to the foam

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reecen commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 2:07am

But upskirt I have, and I think you may have a bit of a narrow view on what an athlete is.
Jaws is something a little different to the general surfing experience is it not? Maybe not for you who spends all their time surfing 50ft death kegs at blacks though?

And Hemstret pack another one buddy.

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 2:08am

Who dotts? And what's this thread about you ludicrous dottwit? Where do you think the power of elite athletes comes from... dott's?

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reecen commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 2:17am

True, big waves are suited to big people. Surfing in general is not for those massive people though.
I got a bit carried away cause it seems you think every athlete has to be a massive beast to be the best in their chosen sport and this is simply not the case, especially in surfing.
And the power of elite athletes, where does that come from? well that depends entirely on what the athletes sport of choice is.

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 2:33am

Surfers transfer power through their feet. Like sprinters, and where does that power originate from, and what is the base, the ultimate support for it? If the core is weak, power mean't to be transferred elsewhere is weak at its source, plus is dissappated, lost in the wrong direction, and will eventually cause break down, like a car with fucked springs, or cracked chassis. Which is also the same base and support for any part of the body. Like a boxer's fist. Or a basketball shot. Weak core, weak chassis, weak power source. Or a gymnasts pull, or push. From any limb. The answer is always the same. Its no coincidence that glutes are our, humans, biggest, strongest muscle group. All elite athletes understand that, and why, totally.

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brutus commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 3:00am

Uplift..I think we get your point,where you think brute strength is the answer to higher performance.

Its rather ironic when you see guys lke Shane D,Ian Walsh,JOB,Jon JON,Noah Johnson...all light weight but very strong Core strength,and very flexible,what you don't see is the fine adjustments needed when charging down a huge wave,and the need for flexibility and reflex's that are the difference between Heaven or Hell.

RCJ trains 6 days a week all year round...I doubt there is anyone,maybe Laird who can match his leg and Core strength...so he can surf 20 waves a session......not 4-5....we have taken some of the fittest pros...yeah and they also train 6 days a week with professional trainers, and no-one comes close to RCJ .....

it takes so much more core strength to Tow.as you catch every set wave.......and hey as you can see most paddle surfers are ready to go tow soon as its too big for paddle..
I really think you are underestimating the level of training that surfers actually do.

udo's picture
udo's picture
udo commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 8:37am

mavericks is being charged right now by the paddle in boys going hard some beatings going down.....Anthony tashnick riding a twin fin gun ?? over the falls backwards.... fuck.
what does a 4-5mm wet steamer, boots , hood,and flotation vest add up to in extra weight ?

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mitchvg commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 10:49am

At the mavs inv. I'm seeing waves that seem 4x overhead or 12ft. The commentators are calling those same waves 25ft or 30-40ft faces... wtf? In terms of entertainment, I won't be tuning into anymore of these... I can appreciate it's pretty gnarly and a rewarding challenge for the surfers, but still, watching shoulder hunting is pretty dull.

and yeah he was riding a twinny.

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thermalben commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 6:34pm

I saw a few waves on the webcast that were in the 25ft range (40ft+ faces). However there were lots of smaller waves ridden too.

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:15pm

Wow what an amasing about face Brutes! Until now you were actually so openly, so vocally opposing strict training regimes for Surfers on Swellnet, claiming it was ruining the surfers. Yet now you finally are literally forced, compelled to come clean, and admit that all this time you, Coach Bruteless have secretly being extremely, strictly training surfers day in day out, to an unmatched, extreme, elite level!!!

'....ah the stories ....... '

Now the world will finally have to see that surfers...

'somebody fuckin' pay us, I did me fuck'n bosu twists!!!!'

With all your (until recently hidden... very fuck'n sneaky), athletic expertise and experience, would you say a 72 kg, super fit Shane Dorian, or a 110 kg super fit, equally skilled Shane Dorian would handle bigger, heavier boards, and bigger heavier conditions better?

Every elite athlete dreams of more strength, speed and power. Its a main reason drugs are so prevalent.

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news/article/-/21014182/nadal-destroys...

Bludgeoned... clubbed... destroys... overpowers...

Answer this, with all your (until recently hidden... very fuck'n sneaky), training wisdom, and athletic experience, Coach Brutesy, why cant a world champion lightweight beat a world champion heavyweight? Or, if the muscles are so detrimental, why can't a world champion super flyweight beat a world champion heavyweight? In even sports like Judo? Why have weight divisions... (until recently hidden... very fuck'n sneaky), Coach Bruteless?

What elite athletes, from other sports, did you measure RCJ, super elite athlete against? How did he fare against the top NFL athletes, the top AFL athletes, the gymnasts, wrestlers. I trained an Olympic silver medalist, Iranian wrestling champion, who's core strength was amasing, who could stop people in their tracks with his training, yet who saw that he could get it much stronger with different methods... probably not to the level of super, elite, unmatched, RCJ though.

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brutus commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:18pm

uplift...go fuck ya self ya peanut...too many roids have scrambled ya brain...WTF

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:21pm

Thought so, no answers. Just chicken shit.

'...ahhh the stories...'

Jaws 3, now playing.

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brutus commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:25pm

chicken shit for chicken shit....you made up Bullshit stories about me ,ya have no credibilty with me as I have with you......at least I have done and am still surfing...hahaahaha......let it go....and I will too.....

I won't comment on your dribble and you don't on mine.....

uplift's picture
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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 12:33pm

Answer the questions, simple.

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brutus commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 1:37pm

you don't command enough credibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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goofyfoot commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 4:45pm

Would Slater win a genuine big wave comp? What, you mean like the Eddie?

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yorkessurfer commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 9:51pm

I have this nightmare vision of uplift's Pro Surfing Utopia where huge muscle laden gorilla's push manoeuvres in grunting jams and hacks. Style would be non existent and irrelevant as sensors mounted to boards would measure force of turns in Newton Metres to record a score, reducing surfing to the equivalent of the dead lift in weightlifting.

Myself I happen to like stylish surfing, Parko's fluid hacks require style and finesse not brute strength. It's great to see Medina's full rotation airs. Guys like Slater and Fanning have such a balanced act as to be able to shine in small waves and big heavy surf and as such are able to win world titles through consistent performance.

In big waves I am more impressed to see someone paddle a huge wave than tow as I know how much more difficult and risky it is. Much as a mountain climber who scales Mount Everest is more of a feat than using a snow ski to ride up there before being winched up the final summit doing cartwheels or something.

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wellymon commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:20pm

Too right YS,
Not sure if they will ever get a skidoo up Everest, If they do I will eat my words...?

Advancement through technology in every sport keeps shining.
A good friend of mine rides and films with these guys in Canada, he uses this equipment to get to where he can ski some of the most extreme lines, which would take hours of walking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEdSEoFntO8

Just like a helicopter or a jet ski.

Who knows ! In the future we might be travelling through all of the 11 or so dimensions using worm holes and time travel, instead of jet skis, helicopters etc.....?

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:04pm

'you don't command enough credibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Washed away again bruteless. You shit yourself at blacks and dodged it, you've brainlessly mouthed off here, can't back any of it and are dodging that too. All your squawking about training actually ruining surfing is on here. Here's one little snippet, of yours about training, wanker. And I'll put more if you like.

' Its funny about all the exercise programs etc...if ya surf everyday .SUP on flat and small days...and stretch...thats all ya need.....

how boring is Gym.......and how really detached from surfing is JIM......'

Yet, all this time you, Coach Bruteless, and the most elite athlete RCJ have been training in secret? Sneaky!

But maybe you were just yappin, wanking and bullshitting again. Mr Chicken shit. Credibility? I'll bet your's is well known in bankruptcy circles. "Maurice, I'm sorry, I can't help you," Click. Time and time again.

No goofyfoot, but in the new realm of size being talked about here.

That's the old guard, the old misconception yorkesurfer. Because you've had no experience with elite athletes, you have no understanding of the skill involved to perform against other elite athletes. Surfers have always boldly claimed that they could dominate other fields, because of the supposed unrivalled skill required to surf. Yet, as the Richie Vaculik situation clearly demonstrates, it's absolutely nothing like that, the exact opposite in fact. There's no where on here that I have ever said skill, which equates to style, wasn't necessary to be elite. Are you then saying yorkesurfer, that a 72 kg, super fit Shane Dorian, would handle bigger, heavier boards, and bigger heavier conditions better than a 110 kg super fit, equally skilled Shane Dorian?

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. No one will, because it shatters the false illusions. Anyone?

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wellymon commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:24pm

Skydiving......?

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:26pm

Design the right shute. In heavy winds, storms?

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. No one will, because it shatters the false illusions. Anyone?

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sir ambrose bea... commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:32pm

@Shirtlift Ya reckon a 110kg Dorian could recover like the 73kg flexible Dorian did today on the near faceplant down the face at mavs ?

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grufnut commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:33pm

***Snore***.......... so where are all these 110 kg super fit world champions then?

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:34pm

Blinder will love this.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/10/do-heavier-objects-really-fall...

In fact the surface area, and strength of the big guy will be an advantage. If he is skilled enough.

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uplift commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 7:41pm

***Snore***.......... so where are all these 110 kg super fit world champions then?

Where all the fans are. And the money.

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. No one will, because it shatters the false illusions. Anyone?

Maybe its because the heavyweights aren't flexible, or athletic, or stylish, or skillfull enough? Or maybe they have to protect the heavyweights, or make it fairer for them, so the lightweights won't win all the time? Anyone?

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First Point Noosa commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 8:40pm

Uplift, I've got one for you... you're a cock!

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grufnut commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 9:22pm

"Where all the fans are. And the money."

What like judo, arm wrestling and weight lifting? or do you mean sports like soccer, golf and tennis? I don't see too many bohemoth's dominating there.

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batfink_and_karate commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 9:26pm

"Of course, anyone with anything more than a passing interest in the culture can see that the reverse is true."

Well fark me, freeride talking about 'culture'. I almost vomited SS. As remote from the marketing and the hype, you have just revealed that you are just another part of it all. You're no renegade, you are exactly as was planned by the marketers, the faux maverick.

All this is written with much love SS.

Surf culture, ha, I reached for my pistol when I read that. I love watching the big wave surfing, and I love surfing, and if I had the time I would push my surfing more, but as for culture, well , that's just a joke. I reject all references to culture in relation to surfing.

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brutus commented Saturday, 25 Jan 2014 at 11:27pm

'you don't command enough credibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Washed away again bruteless. You shit yourself at blacks and dodged it, you've brainlessly mouthed off here, can't back any of it and are dodging that too. All your squawking about training actually ruining surfing is on here. Here's one little snippet, of yours about training, wanker. And I'll put more if you like.

people like you make me sick,and are the anti-christs of surfing....ya made up bulshit story about blacks has been refuted,and is just a delusion in your steroid rsoaked brain.....I don't have to justify to you or anybody else that a chickenshit little left called blacks would not have scared me ...I have surfed all over the world in 20'+ surf all my life.....so yeah your story has no credibility...as do you.....not sure why you continue to attack me..........maybe you don't have a real life and all you say is just out of a book.....

we were talking about Towing VS Paddle and you come up with an absurd in shane dorian was 120KG...are you fucking kidding me.......hes not!!!!

he is an amazing surfer and I think we love him just the ways he is a humble family man....but you see his size a some sort of deficiency....FFS get real ..even though its rumuored ya have never been out over 6' so what would ya know about what it takes to paddle or tow....

I actually feel sorry for you not having a life......lets leave it at that......I think this post is done.....

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uplift commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 1:19am

'RCJ trains 6 days a week all year round...I doubt there is anyone,maybe Laird who can match his leg and Core strength...so he can surf 20 waves a session......not 4-5....we have taken some of the fittest pros...yeah and they also train 6 days a week with professional trainers, and no-one comes close to RCJ .....'

'I really think you are underestimating the level of training that surfers actually do.'

But didn't you say,

' Its funny about all the exercise programs etc...if ya surf everyday .SUP on flat and small days...and stretch...thats all ya need.....'

'how boring is Gym.......and how really detached from surfing is JIM......'

Wanker.

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southey commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 1:58am

Still Bourne ( Upskirt ) ,

you said this about 20 times in the last year on various different threads .

" There's no where on here that I have ever said skill, which equates to style, wasn't necessary to be elite. Are you then saying yorkesurfer, that a 72 kg, super fit Shane Dorian, would handle bigger, heavier boards, and bigger heavier conditions better than a 110 kg super fit, equally skilled Shane Dorian? "

You are a MORON ....
this notion is an Oxy Moron .....

You can't have one and not the other .... If someone as vertically challenged As Dorian was that weight either naturally big then fined down or most likely bulked up . They / he would not have the skill . As to start off bigger he would have never acquired the skills he has , as the learning part would be somewhere near impossible to be that good with too much Bulk .... And secondly if he was maybe as late as his mid to late twenties could go forward in time and pump all that shit you guys jam into your system and miraculously " gymed " himself up to weigh 30 % more his body will fail in critical maneuvers ? The limit someone could theoretically go to in " upsizing would be well under 20 % increase and even that would change everything ..... you would have to grow genetically blessed and work as twice as hard as anyone to get to over 110kgs and still rip at any age ... Otherwise you'd spend so much time in the Gym that you suck in the water ... ie like yourself ... the only people in surfing that could remotely get near 110 kgs and still hold their own would be Jay Davies , Dean Bowen , Bottle Thompson and perhaps Tom Innes .... But last time i checked even Tom at around 6'4 and probably carrying a little extra than he needs ( ie not super ripped/ fit ) he said he was under 100 kgs .......
James Hird , Anthony Koutfidis etc , etc etc all baulked up too much one year and the following year , broke down ..... only your 'roid munchin mates in ten good 'ole USA who pretty much only run in a straight line if and when they can get away with it . Surfing like AFL is a 360 deg x 360 deg game ....
Your in Steroid LA La land ... someone pass me two guns .
one for uplift to use in the Gym , and the other for me to go out completely unfit and stroke into waves twice as big as Upskirt ever has ... your an idiot stick to B'tBall ,
You tube and Creatine ......

PS the other thing that you know , but don't want to tell anyone is once you are big either it be naturally or unnaturally you have to work even longer to stay that way . its no coincidence that guys as small as Tom C and even RCJ are the most likely to still rip in their 50's . Of course tow surfing bypasses alot of this as the endurance is tested far less than paddling similar waves . Not to disrespect Laird ,( as he should be YOUR poster child ) , but when was the last time we saw him paddling Large waves let alone Tow , he's obviously a family man now BUT maybe he's spending all his non family time in the Gym maintaining THAT rig .. Whats Laird's age ? ... ....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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brutus commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 2:13am

OF uplift lets end it here...I was wrong to say just SUP and stretch......RCJ trains his endurance and core strength has lost weight,down from 90Kgs to 85 KGs and SUPs ,bike rides everyday when Flat,and surfs as many times a day as possible as does TC...etc

with Mick/prkoe etc...they train thru the roof on endurance and flexibility...not bulk.,and try to keep their body weght down,NOT bulk

Southey has a great point with the AFP players...no-one bulks up anymore.....Esssendon tried 2012 with "supplements" and had all players bulk up and had the greatest number of hamstring tears in AFL history...

and Southeys claim of being a 360 degree game as is surfing....yeah that rings true.....so get over it,and me will ya.......

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stickyson commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 8:02am

Well done blind oh for smoking em out, is uplift a terrorist he has nothing better to do than wind someone up on a chat thread on a Saturday night of anaustralia day weekend!!! Very UN AUSSIE

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uplift commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 7:31pm

Fair enough, I accept that you made a mistake Brutus, and that you admit it, but you also said in another thread, that it was the strict training schedules etc ruining Australian surfing. Maybe just to have a go at me at the time. Interesting though that in the Storm Riders movie, no training was shown, and RCJ actually says the opposite, that he does none, other than to drive his car at high speed, as in his view performance in towing has nothing to do with abs and muscles. Go figure? A friend of mine treated Tom Carrol's stuffed back, which threatened to end his surfing life, and enabled him to continue surfing. His classic approach was no different to mine, 'build some muscle, its too weak'.

Your limited, well, actually non exsistant, zero... zero experience and knowledge of training elite athletes and competing with and against elite athletes is glaring souflet'. (I still can't believe your persistant whining about being over the hill at your age... each to their own). Geelong literally smashed and exploited Port Power's Justin Westhoff's lack of size and strength, demolishing him, in the famous final, and the whole much smaller, weaker team. Port Power haven't recovered since, and now wear the' soft' label. Jobe Watson? Voted best in the league, the best player in the league, did I mention the best player in the league, at 95 kg, and taking all sorts of risks to be as big and strong as possible, so, more athletically proficient as possible. Or maybe he just wanted to be a worse athlete? Buddy Franklin, one of the most exciting, sought after players in the game, who can command a salary on his terms... 100kg. Suprised you don't know about that one Brutus? Quick ring Sydney up, tell 'em they've fucked up. Matthew Pavlich, Freemantle superstar, wanted by all clubs, 100kg? Get over there souflet', brutes, trim that fucker down!

Nic Naitanui has brought a much publicised, whole new, much more athletic element to the AFL, at over 100 kg. So much so that other teams are now looking at similar superior, much bigger athletes, like North Melbourne's Majak Daw. I actually put junior footballers through weight programs written by the AFL clubs, as they select future hopefulls. How do you train your guys, souflet'? I personally trained Port Lincoln's ( a town famous for producing AFL stars) Mail Medalist, the best player in the league, added 15 kg of muscle, and he has a whole new, better dimension to his game. Power.

This is much like how it started in US basketball, which tried to prevent African Americans playing for years, even like you souflet', comparing them to muscle bound gorillas. The truth proved to be the total opposite, where it soon became obvious that the much bigger, fitter athletes were faster, smarter, more skillfull, stylish, more coordinated, more flexible etc. As has happend in UK soccer, boxing, golf, anywhere where there is big money. I have talked to lots of African American athletes, friends, about something that they love to make crystal clear. Western, despicable slave practices created, actually bred a smarter, bigger, faster, stronger, super athlete, the only people who could survive the atrocity. And who now love to stick it in Western Culture's face. You want the best... here we are, pay up to watch. We love karma, don't we. It has spawned a new music genre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCOg8ZzUfg

Pro Surfing has no money to speak of, so will never attract the most elite athletes until it does, a catch 22.

The above isn't mean't to portray that other cultures can't have elite athletes. you just have to be smarter, and get bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic. Like dealing with bigger, more athletic waves, and the equipment needed to deal with them. One day a day a white person will run the 100m in under 10 secs. If they are strong and athletic enough. Clueless, inexperienced, idiots, imbeciles, dim witted fools, still believe properly developed muscles, properly developed size is a deterrent to performance. Pro Surfing is still in the dark ages re training and athleticism. How many carves, exciting turns did you count at the Mav's contest, from those at the top of the game?

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. No one will, because it shatters the false illusions. Anyone?

No one.

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goofyfoot commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 7:44pm

Matthew Pavlich wanted by all clubs!! Haha your fucken dreaming uplift. And Gary Albert jr is the best in the lleague, not watson. How many times in the last 3 days have you mentioned judo and weight divisions? It's AMASING!!!!
Didn't Majak Daw play two games last year?? Obviously dominating... And got knocked clean out in one??
When has the mavs contest ever been about turns? Oh yeah that's right never!!
Go to sleep uppy

uplift's picture
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uplift commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 8:02pm

Buddy?

No One.

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Mrsuplift commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 9:04pm

This has gone on long enough can you guys please stop taunting him as this is getting out of control. Pls forgive my boys ranting

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southey commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 10:12pm

Buddy is 6-' 5" or 6' -6" . 198 cm's !!!! . next thing your gonna say that Nic Naitinui can surf . He is the only one with athletism that could honestly maintain peak fitness and reach 110 kgs ..... next thing your gonna tell me that Aaron Sandilands surfs good .....
As far as i know there has never been an elite ( high Pro level ) surfer taller than 6'4" ..... the tallest that i can think of would be James Catto .... and wasn't he a picture of health ..... Actually that Talyor ? Jensen guy was around 6' 5" , yeah he was a awesome long boarder , but only above average shortboard / critical rider ..... perhaps you could look him up , i think he's married to Nat Young's ( Oz ) daughter but is an American . ? !
Good luck uplift .
P.S . I've passed faecal matter that knows more about AFL than you .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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kaiser commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 10:23pm

...Anyhoo, regarding the tow vs paddle deal.. Brutus (or anyone else) does the design required to actually get in to one of these things prohibit you from having an outline/ rocker setup that will allow you to fit into the curve of a barrelling 30 footer once you've caught it? Seems the tow boards can be much curvier and have a better rail configuration where needed to lock in a line on a steeper face.

BTW, Mrs Uplift, are you his wife, or mother... or both?

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uplift commented Sunday, 26 Jan 2014 at 10:26pm

http://www.theage.com.au/photogallery/afl/its-watsons-brownlow-20120924-...

'A versatile player, Pavlich is widely regarded as one of the premier AFL centre half-forwards of the modern era, achieving All-Australian selection six times'

'Buddy Franklin is the competition’s most recognised player and one of the best and most exciting to boot.

With lightning speed, a booming left-foot kick and the ability to make the extraordinary seem ordinary, Buddy is a marketing dream: he is already the face of the high-end t-shirt label, Nena and Pasadena.

Oh, and don’t forget the swagger. The tattoos. The bags of goals. The confidence he exudes. '

And then at 108kg, Travis Cloke.

'A second All-Australian gong and third place in the Copeland Trophy were just rewards for Travis Cloke's fine 2013 season.'

'How can they go after other players when Travis Cloke has sucked so much out of the salary cap already!'

'When has the mavs contest ever been about turns? Oh yeah that's right never!!'

Exactly, you ludicrous imbecile. Sssssuuuuuuubbbbbbbb!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuckin surfees, cheeky little fuckers.

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. No one will, because it shatters the false illusions. Anyone?

No one.

No One.

reecen's picture
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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 1:04am

Weight divisions shut up already. Mrs uplift can you put something sedative in his drink to counteract the artficially hogh levels of testosterone.
Weight divisions in surfing?
Weight divisions in golf?
Weight divisions in diving?
Wright divisions in tennis?
Weight divisions in AFL?
Weight divisions in soccer?
Weight divisions in snowboarding?
Weight divisions in skateboarding?
Weight divisions in F1?
Weight divisions in Motocross?

Shut up with your weight divisions it isn't what surfing is about.

reecen's picture
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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 1:04am

.

uplift's picture
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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 1:12am

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?

No one.

No One.

No One

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braithy commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:08am

It's a myth. Royce Gracie at 78 kilos was world MMA champ, beating guys up to double his weight.

I've heard and seen some ridiculous things in my time, but weight divisions in surfing is right up there with deep fried Mars bars and totem pole tennis.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 2:08am

Quite simple sack. A weight division is introduced into a sport where physical size plays an integral part in the outcome of the match up. Not all sports are do focused man on man and have different skill sets that suit different physical abilities.
They don't have weight divisions in marathons because roid munchers don't even bother trying and probably couldn't even finish.
Maybe you want to elaborate sensibly rather then just say the same thing over and over again and use a four year old argument. My super Heroe is bigger and stronger and faster and has more super powers and is smarter then yours so I win. Reality check uppity, you live in bum fuck Idaho training house wives and are banging on about weight divisions on a surfing website?

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southey commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 2:48am

Yes pavlich is good ( correction was good ) but nothing more , cloke time will tell although can only play one position , and if anyone asked him to spell position or change them then he would look at you dumbfounded . Pavlich can use both sides of his body , the other too may aswell be paraplegic on their opposite side . Pav , is also someone who has not stayed consistantly outstanding through his career , obviously carrying too much bulk / injured often .....
Now lets get to the pointy end , shall we .... The Best of the best , the creme de la creme ........ The greatest player to ever pull on boots Leigh Matthews , MASSIVE AMASING man ...... all 178 cm's & 85 kilo's of him . Could play anywhere except the ruck .... and such small man no hope hey , he'd pull your eyes out to win Uplift , and if he couldn't reach them he'd pull your balls out first to get your eyes down to his level .....
Next .. .... Gary Ablett Snr , 185 cm's & 97 kg's ... could play anywhere , fuck he could probably beat the best modern players in any contest in any position one on one .....
14 goals from a wing , one afternoon .....
Next .... Wayne Carey , 192 cm's & 97 kg's ..... win games off his own boot , beat the shit out of anyone in his way (including Miami cops ) ;-) , may or may not been mentaly enhanced at various times .....
Next ..... Chris Judd , 189 cm's & 88 kg's .... explosive fast , did i say explosive ... maybe i'll repeat that ...... explosive ...
Next Gary Ablett 2nd , 182 cm's & 88 kg's ..... a rare mix of Leigh and his father , except no where near the level of cunt in him to rise to their level of excellence .....

Anyway you can see where I'm going with this UPlift ..... the two best first and last are yes Strong individuals with extremely strong hips and legs and core , very balanced individuals ... but under 90 kg's , and barely 6 ft they don't fit your mold .... Bad luck
Obviously Ablett the first , was a rare specimen , wouldn't train , on the piss , smokin' dope , etc etc etc ..... but that man was a weapon , with obviously the most gifted physical attributes . I dare say his core strength and pure raw extremities strength would fuck over most of these modern day " adonis's " you champion ......
Anyway they got bigger , then and now they are smaller ... but NONE of them fit your stupid mould and even don't touch the tonne let alone smash it ..... Some find excellence for short periods , but only this ideal size work for LEGEND status ... the perfect athlete talk .....
So in concluding considering the biggest surfers are probably only 6'6" , and the average be about 5'10 , then our Surfing Messiah is RCJ .... and he's proven it well into his 40's ... I hope you acknowledge this next time you cross paths , SHitlift .....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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brutus commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 3:24am

I thought I would shut you uplift if I appologied for ..ahh ..understating what surfers are now doing....

as for RCJ saying what he said in stromruders...Duhhhhh...so think he might have made tongue in cheek comment....ah I see him everyday at home and know exactly what he does.......and in Hawaii...but you go ahead and believe what a movie says not the guy who has surfed and towed with him for 25 years plus..

as for TC he has always rained hard as he has had a lot of injuries over the years he SUP's everyday and surfs and when there is now surf...trains...

As for my non -existent contact and competition against elite athletes...what would you know about my private life or contact with anybody...ya just make up shit to support your feeble ego by denigrating others...and your feeble point of view...

my whining about being over the hill at my age.......what does this mean......where...yeah I am older and still surf...tow etc...HUH...??

as for picking out a few 6 6 footballers ......what a joke.....what about the rest....??

I actually know AFL footballers who have slimmed down in the last few years as bulk hurts their speed and endurance.........

as for no turns at Mavs .....duh its about the take off and the bottom turn.....its the wave that determines what they do...

no money in surfing.....so that affects their physical training....ask Mick and Parko....they train down the house,I am even seeing kalohoe for the first time this year training down the house with a professional trainer.....

so most of what you say is based on false assertions........supposition...sorry mrs Uplift....but your boy is just plain nast and you should threaten to take him off his roids if he is too naughty.....

what do you think the average weight of all the world surfing champions has been in the last 20 years??

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brutus commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 3:35am

Hi Kaiser

the paddle bds are built to get into the waves and then turn them...so you have a bout 6-7" of s/bd that's helping you paddle in........and 3 ' of s/bds that is actually used in riding the wave.....

so with a tow bd as the jetski tows you in,you use that 3 ' feet of s/bd to do turns and do not have 7' of s/bd inf ron t of you...bit like surfing ya short board on 20 + waves.....but narrower thinner double foiled fins and footstraps.....

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:06am

Actually honey I really like the thought of an 80 kg version of you. More brad Pitt than hulk hogan would be a good change. But seriously boys just agree with him please I caught him trying to inject a mix of minced kangaroo meat, whey protein and beetroot juice this morning and the rambling voices I hear from behind the doors of the high performance room are quite disturbing.

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wellymon commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:12am

Brutus have you found out an average speed of the participant once they are riding on the face. ?
I know you might be towing them in at 70-80, but obviously their speed would ditch a fair bit, once letting go of the rope !
I suppose different waves, different speeds, i.e. down the line waves vs a big peak and its over.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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brutus commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 10:00am

I think the speed is something that really needs to be established thru science...I can tall ya when RCJ lets go of the rope even at that speed.he gives it an enormous tug....more is better ahhhhhh

swells in Vicco down south get up to 30KPH and its faster in Hawaii so there are a lot of different variables......we go across the top of the wave ,from deep behind the peak.......I actually woder about the squirt off the bottom turn is that the fastest point???

ya making me want to get RCJ fired up and get Red Bull to try and establish a guiness book of records ..fastest on a wave ....with a GPS....hmmmm???

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rusty-moran commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 3:43pm

G'day MC, thanks for sharing your knowledge here. I'm in Hawaii at the moment doing some towing and trying out some new tow boards. Dick Brewer balsa is cutting the chop like butter. The weight distribution seems to be more even, and the boards have less flex than PU foam. Have you been using balsa? What are your thoughts on balsa?

Also I checked the bottom concave a rocker after watching your clip and Brewer is doing very similar flat rocker but with less concave, about 3/8". I'm interested in your full inch concave concept. Makes sense to just go completely flat rocker for the back half of the board.

re- tow vs paddle: I think there's several ways to enjoy the oceans power and ride waves. Somedays I bodysurf, other days I paddle. But man it's fun to tow when it's the best way to ride a lot of waves. Yesterday I towed some fun windy (cold) 12' down the way with one other team. We were just bagging wave after wave, flying down the line cranking out some really fun pocket turns for a couple hundred yards. One guy paddled out in boardies on a ten foot gun so we parked the skis to watch. Sure enough, within ten minutes he got caught inside, and swam in. We jumped straight back on the rope and kept surfing, then only came in when we were completely knackered. Did old mate enjoy his session of "pure" paddle surfing? Maybe. Possibly the swim in was the highlight of his day. Did he get to ride a single wave? Nope.

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brutus commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 2:46pm

Hey Rusty

great to hear from ya...sounds like ya having a ball with all the swell there's been in Hawaii...

yeah balsa is great,and you are right in spreading the weight and not weighting the bds as we did before....as we struggle in Australia to get Balsa.......

Our Bds are only 1 1/2" , I use carbon sandwhich to stiffen the board,but am making a bd forBL right now supa heavy foam with triple 10 ply stringers so as I can get the stiffness and also a supa heavy core...easy to shape than Balsa...and ya right about the back of the bd being flat.......

Love those reefs at Mokes.....did ya check out Mark M's first wave at jaws...ouch..spoke to him this morning thought it might have been the bd ..but he hit a boil and ahhhhhhh .........but it didn't break.......so he was stoked.........but got 5 waves on the head....think we might prefer the tow more waves more fun been there and done the adrenalin junkie thing...........made it this far yewwwwww

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wesley commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 2:54pm

I dunno Braithy... Totem tennis is ok. I agree about the Mars bars though.They used to sell them down here at the Campbelltown servo... A mate of mine purchased one once out of curiosity and I tried it. Hideous. Elvis would have loved them.

✌️

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blindboy commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 3:50pm

The more I think about trying to measure the speed brutus the trickier it gets. A gps would give you an average speed point to point but not allow for any curve in the track or vertical distance. If you measure direct water speed with a speedometer type device it would need to be corrected for the motion of the water......same if you use an air speed device with the wind. The gps might be the best if it will function over a short enough distance but I think you might need a tech head to build you a specialist unit!

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 4:55pm

I would have said borrow our gps but mr uplift smashed it to pieces trying to turn it on

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 5:43pm

braitho, another muscless tiddler joins the school. And they're balling up nicely. Actually braithless, at its conception, the MMA was dominated by heavyweight collegiate wrestlers, so they had to dramatically change the rules to try to even it up. No kneeing to the head on the ground, or striking the back of the head on the ground as everyone was being quickly KO'd by the heavyweight collegiate wrestlers. Gracie was amasing, awesome in that period, but soon the heavyweights adapted, and there's that word again, weight classes were introduced. Maybe you can answer braither, what the rest of your school is afraid of, why would the MMA and Judo for that matter introduce weight classes? I'll help the tiddlers out, it's the same reason that the men surf better than the women in 'semi pro' and especially big wave surfing.

Mr uplift, its, its, mm... mmmm... mmmmuuu, mmmmuuuuuussss... mussssccccll... faark orrfff ya fuc####nnn u##***f#### f###***n #####******!!!!!! ######*******!!!!!!

Also baity, Gracie is relatively massive compared to pro surfers, and the media as it always does, would have pounced on any miniscule possibility to have a sceric of muscle associated with the sport. He would have been knicknamed 'Godzilla', or 'The Huge Brazillian', or 'Thunder Guns', and probably would have dominated the sport, bitch slapping and spitting on execs at will.

There's confusion, panic in the balled up school. bruteless, when did I accuse you of,

'my whining about being over the hill at my age'?

It was actually the other tiddler, souflet' that I said that to. One session too many with TC... duhhh, ahhhhh... the stories... So fair enough, the Storm Riders stuff was once again, just more, very convenient bullshit. So thats the new zomasing plan to save Semi Pro Surfing, RCJ is now being remarketed as the most powerfull, athletic, strong, fit, zomasing surfer ever. Interesting, I'm sure the fans will buy it.

souflet', again, your glaring, zero, none, nada, zilch (don't let that stop a faaarkkin' surfee eh!) experience in elite sports and training any level athlete is on display. Yes, it does take a lot of work to be an elite athlete, and to stay in top shape. Too much for most. However you, unsurprisingly make the all too common bungle re building strength and muscle. Not a lot of time is needed, its actually detrimental, the muscle builds when resting. Intensity and rest. Sprinters/marathon runners. Stop whining about it all being too hard, and get back to work. You've got the resting bit wired.

Now, back to the question at hand.

All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?

Lets have a look.

No one.

No one.

No one.

No one.

No one.

No one.

No one.

And, surprise, surprise, no one.

Lot of bullshit, but no one... tiddlers?

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goofyfoot commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 6:13pm

Are you laughing hysterically at yourself when your writing all this tripe uplift??
Has uplift got any mates?

No one

No one

No one
Blah blah blah

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 6:21pm

But you can't surf honey and you are huge! Actually you completely lack definition, sure you have bulk but I can't tell your triceps from biceps. As far as surfing goes if going over the falls every wave and hitting everyone with your board is good surfing then honey you are a star. I know you told me that real surfing was about being strong enough to keep your board in a straight line at all times and always keep the fins in the water but surely you have to get to your feet to make this happen. Your a kook honey

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sir ambrose bea... commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 6:26pm

Shirtlift your gym or the gym where you work has a colonic irrigation room ?
Do you insert the tube into the anus of patients ?

Do you enjoy this procedure ?

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wellymon commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 6:53pm

Believe it or not.

It is "SUMO" Wrestling.

Agent "Bourne" you may stand down.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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grog-an commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:21pm

shirtlifter, for fucks sake stop going on about blacks. you go on like you were the biggest charger out the place. Mick T, charged it, you didn't. you were one of the biggest shoulder hoppers out there, and anytime it got really solid you were around at walkers or disappeared somewhere else. always had a deluxe excuse though why you weren't out there.

WORDY SAID IT, SO BAD LUCK!!

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:26pm

And a few foolish, muscleless tiddlers panic, and break out of the ball.

'All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?'

It would seem a simple question. Yet... no answers? Duuuhhhh... aaaahhhh. Again, I'll try to help the anti muscle, tiddler brigade. Its the same answer as why the 'Semi pro', men's surfers surf with more power than the Semi Pro women, and handle bigger waves better.

Lets have another look.

No one.

No one.

No one.

And surprise, surprise no one.

More bullshit, no answers.

'All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?'

'NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?'

'NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?'

No one.

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:29pm

Mr Grogan you may be onto something. Our lawn mower only seemed to ever get a run on a big swell or a low tide.

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:35pm

'Are you laughing hysterically at yourself when your writing all this tripe uplift??'

No, more how the tiddlers respond to their name so quickly.

'All someone has to do is explain weight divisions, even in sports such as judo, where the skill level is universely known, and many fairytales exist. NO ONE WILL BECAUSE IT SHATTERS THE FALSE ILLUSIONS. ANYONE?'

And again, lets have a look... surprise , surprise no one.

Heeeere tiddler, tiddler, tiddler, thaaaat's a good little tiddler...

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:49pm

Tennis, golf,surfing, car racing,table tennis,athletics yes fuckn athletics honey the pinnacle of primitive human skill sets! Please forget about this one honey you are making yourself and me look stupid. Really fuckn stupid honey

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sir ambrose bea... commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:52pm

But honey me still love you longtime xxxxxx

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 7:55pm

Ping pong anyone?

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:03pm

Its a classic, the brainwashing. People blather mindlessly about muscles and size hindering athletic performance, then introduce weight classes so the big guys with the muscles won't win all the time. Sheep shit.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:11pm

you ignore it everytime someone explains anything?

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:13pm

That mr bolt isn't really that big and muscly honey nor was car Lewis etc.
its only you who is so hung up on bulk honey cause that's all you have. No ability, limited intelligence, not that pretty etc. it's the whole basic reason why people get into bodybuilding cause they are not happy how they are. One thing to work out to increase health and performance but when it reaches the steroid abusing fanatical stage you are at honey it reaches the same levels as a mental health issue as eating disorders do. Time to seek help honey

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:22pm

How and where did you, or anyone explain why elite flyweights can't beat elite heavyweights dots? No one's gone anywhere near it, just sheepishly wandering around the bush, sheep shitting. Care to quote your explanation? The actual explanation is that they are not big, fast, strong or powerfull enough, simple.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:23pm

But they can and do in sports like surfing, tennis, golf, etc etc etc etc which everyone has kept saying but you keep dodging.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:24pm

Does your size make you the best surfer at blacks? By the sounds of it you should be.

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goofyfoot commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:42pm

What's the story with marathon runners uplift? I'm not talking judo, boxing , UFC.. Long distance runners uplift
When has a 110kg muscle bound fuckhead won that??

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:46pm

I have said on here many times, the best surfer I have seen at blacks was Toddy Archer. He was 6' 5" around 90kg when I met him, 6'5" 110 when we rehabbed his knees, preventing surgery that he was meant to have, and built him up. Then he got the best barrel he ever had, according to him. I have also said repeatedly, there are many other equally important factors. Which at the elite level are fairly equal, thats when size really matters. Why the weigh in is such a big deal.

Where's that explanation? Doesn't exist. More sheep shit.

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:49pm

Soon as you put some weight on their back goofball. Make it harder. Increase the forces, like the waves getting bigger, more powerfull.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:59pm

And why in gods name would you want to do that? The whole point of a marathon is to get from point A to point B the fastest. What a moronic statement.
Infact isn't that why they reckon humans did so well? because of their endurance and being able to run extremely long distances and wear down their pray before killing them? if they were all big lumbering beef cakes they would be tired out and forced to dig for yams with the women again.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:55pm

What about all the other sports where the best ever hasn't been a ripping person, that you keep avoiding?

Are you one of the best at blacks? surely the way you bang on about your size you must be one of the biggest, therefore one of the best?

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:57pm

But you never surfed over 6 foot, why do you need to be so big

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sir ambrose bea... commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 8:58pm

Cliffy young in his wellys........legend.

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Mrsuplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:04pm

Gotta love a potato farmer in trackies and gumboots

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:04pm

The boards are getting bigger and heavier, or like the tow boards, heavier, the waves bigger and more powerfull, the chop bigger, boils and currents stronger, wind stronger... hey, I know, we'll get even skinnier and weaker! Duuuuhhhh...aaaahhhhh...

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:06pm

A lot of people thought I was pretty good at blacks dots, what about you?

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:08pm

nah I am pretty sure most people think I look like a stink bug on a wave.
If I stacked on a heaps of muscle and grew six inches I am pretty sure I would just look like a bigger stink bug that would need a bigger board.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:07pm

Wow, given up uppity?

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:13pm

The boards are getting bigger and heavier, or like the tow boards, heavier, the waves bigger and more powerfull, the chop bigger, boils and currents stronger, wind stronger... hey, I know, we'll get even skinnier and weaker!

Is that what you reckon dots? What did you say you were like at black dots? So, you reckon Richie Vas should have gone up a weight class, better chance of success there?

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:15pm

'If I stacked on a heaps of muscle and grew six inches I am pretty sure I would just look like a bigger stink bug that would need a bigger board.'

Think like a loser, and nothing will help you dots, you'll always be a loser.

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:20pm

What about behave like a loser and everyone will think your a loser?

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reecen commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:16pm

oh no here we go again same garbage about weight classes in combat sports even though the majority of sports that people like to watch and pay extremely well have no weight division.
And I think people in general agreed all along that the bigger and stronger you are on giant waves the better, but one of the main thing you have to do well is absorb a shock.
I didn't say anything about blacks either that was you?
still haven't told us why all these sports without weight divisions aren't ruled by beefcakes?

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stray-gator_2 commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:20pm

All this talk about bigger and stronger is making me .............. HORNBY!!!!!

http://www.hornby.com/help/building-a-model-railway/

I aim to give you something that you can keep for life. A bit like herpes. My techniques are not available in any book or course; what would scientists know? I have played with model trains for 40 plus years.

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southey commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:26pm

Uplift . I agree that heavier surfers look better in the water .
Especially turns ( bigger spray ) and tend to use momentum better , especially through chop . Now you've finally stopped the verbal diarrhea about fucking judo weight divisions and whatever the fuck else .
Tell us exactly everything about ' Todd's weight fluctuation and whatever . You say he put on 20 kg's , was that from lack of fitness or did you drive it ....
Was the knee injury at 90 or 110 ?!? And where and what is he doing now , lastly how old was he or could you provide a time frame .
I don't bitch and winged about my issues , I still surf , just will never be as flexible ...
The main issue I have is " life" and work catching up with me and work . I'm in the position where I have to do things I shouldn't like actually sit on my arse for Agee hours at a time during work . Also standing and bending over hours at end . I've been pro active and spent close to $2000 on high chair that actually helps and makes me feel better after long stints on it .... Just can't take it to every spot I work .
Anyway , for three or four years my surfing excelled whilst I worked very little and surfed ALOT . And all over the place , shortly after this ended ( for numerous reasons ) , I had " the injury ". Now before this I'm a human injury list ,( from multiple serious accidents during many different sports ) of which it never stopped me . The combination of lifestyle and this last injury has definitely slowed me down . But not stopped me , I've had the best backhand tubes of my life , and paddled the biggest waves also. . Just nowhere near as good as if it hadn't happened ... My core didn't get shit from inactivity , it was actually injured along with the spine .
Anyway if you or Todd don't mind I'd like to hear the full story ... And if you don't I find out some way anyway or someone else here will know enough and keep you honest . But I tend to have an inkling that you may have contributed to him having issues in the past and into the future with his knees .... I've spent 3/4 of my life surrounded by my old man and his mates with fucked legs hips and knees from footy .
Too much bulk is bad , and a serious issue when you age ....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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stray-gator_2 commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:33pm

Too much bulk IS a bad thing.

However, too much Thomas The Tank Engine is barely enough.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plpp&list=PL21ADA9A06FF13E1C&v=2uCAsf...

I aim to give you something that you can keep for life. A bit like herpes. My techniques are not available in any book or course; what would scientists know? I have played with model trains for 40 plus years.

udo's picture
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udo commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:46pm

every kilo extra of bodyweight is times seven on the knee joints.

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mothart commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 9:53pm

Hey Mick, how are you mate...
Don't know much about judo so I can't answer your repetive question there...
But I was watching the cricket last night, and they make a bit of dosh... No beef cakes there...
Turned over to the tennis...and they make a lot more... Maybe the angle was wrong, but that guy that won didnt look huge... Maybe he was in the wrong weight div.

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mothart commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 10:02pm

And sorry to every else who cares about tow v ski, and seen another thread hijacked by uplift... I just couldn't help myself, I took the bait.

Oh yeah forgot that I ran into old mate this morn at shers,
He said you used to do yoga twice a day....

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mothart commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 10:09pm

Oops, I meant tow v paddle (into the future)

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uplift commented Monday, 27 Jan 2014 at 11:33pm

moth, are you fuck'n serious... fitness... muscles... you? Thats so fuck'n funny! Been snowin' a bit up there? When did you become a fitness expert? Shit, last time I saw you, I was helping you out os, wouldna known it hey! But there ya go hey that's surfees for ya, ya never know. What gym are you working out of now?

Udes, is that what you've found in all your training experiences?

soufle'

http://i1350.photobucket.com/albums/p775/Uplifted/Toddy%201/Toddy1_zpsc0...

Why don't you ask him yourself? You must know him, with all your contacts? He's pretty well known around the place, all the places you reckon you are a legend at. He made a surfing mag list of the best guys to ever surf gland.

He was injured when I met him, at the light weight, I used to stir the shit out of him for weak glutes back legs, like most surfers. He was heaps, way bigger fitter and stronger than most surfers even then though. You woulda seen that? After he trained with me he was genuinely fit and strong, heaps heavier legs, could actually squat and deadlift, and chin and dip properly too. His previous versions were pretty funny, like most guys. And then he got his infamous bomb at blacks, best barrel he'd ever had he reckons. Plenty of witnesses. Where were you mothra? He had a horrendous wipe out later too, and when he got out of hospital, I rehabbed his smashed up groin and hips too. Ask him. Your mate Pete T will fill you in. You woulda heard that, with all your savvy and connections? Ask Yazzie if he's still down that way.

That old boy, footy, thing, yeh, when you haven't a clue about training properly them's the apples. So what? Its common.

I've helped heaps of people way worse off than that soufle'. You have to overcome your baseless, irrational fear of building muscle, getting stronger. Or stay weak, honestly, who do you think gives a shit in the end. You better. I helped a carpetlayer once, in agony couldn't work, or do a fucking thing. In the end he was doing everything, including surfing again, and stoked to be bigger and stronger. Ask your mate Pete T, about my friend saving his dad's surfing career. He loved telling them the reality,

'Fucked back... what back, you haven't got a fucking back, or a fucking arse, or fucking legs, that's the problem!'

Finally some sceric of sense, of course the added weight strength, fitness is going to enhance surfing in the waves/conditions, wearing the getup, this article is about. How fucking obvious, well you'd think so.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 2:26am

I just realized Mrs Uppity.that are you real......I mean you know who I am ....can we google your name and really see who you are??

...one of the best surfers at G-land got the barrel of his life at Blacks........??

Tow bds are heavier..actually they are lighter now than ever...!!

You have never surfer or met RCJ but bag him for being unfit...huh??

You bag me as I know no elite athletes...which is not true....but how would you really know...unless its just supposition ???

you claim that I am unfit ,which I am at the moment as I am recovering from a year od prettyintense cancer treatment...but I bet I have still surfed bigger waves this year than you have in your life...

I am amazed that everybody here on these forums has constantly answered your questions but are you deaf.......to their answers......its like an episode of " you are home alone?"

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brutus commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 2:28am

Hey BB,how about a speedometer on the board????

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 8:25am

It will give you the speed of the board relative to the water but the water is moving too. In some ways this might be the fairest way of assessing things but ideally you want the speed of the board relative to some fixed point but then the more I think about that the crazier it gets. The board and the surfer have significant motion in all three dimensions so you need to be able to measure their motion in all three dimensions from your fixed point. All I can think of is to set up like a localised gps system that can track movement over very short distances in all dimensions..........we're heading towards rocket science here brutus! But you never know there may be a simpler method. I'll talk to a few people I know who might have some insight on the problem.
Great to hear you have recovered and are surfing big waves. My wife went through cancer treatment last year and she has also recovered and is back in the water so I know a little bit about how hard that journey can be.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:32am

OK I had a talk to a few people. You can get a gps that will include vertical motion. You can also get high end stuff that will be accurate to about 10mm. The cost could be prohibitive but that's another issue. If you are serious about getting into the Guiness Book Of Records they would probably need to know the maximum error of the equipment you used so you would end up quoting a speed plus or minus a value calculated from the particular unit.

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udo commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 7:28am

@Uplift , the times 7 on the knee joints came from one of australias best orthopaedic surgeons .

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uplift commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 9:59am

'...one of the best surfers at G-land got the barrel of his life at Blacks........??'

He was in that magazine list, brutless. I think TC was even one of the people who compiled it. Ask him about the barrel. It was insane, yep, best he'd ever had. I'd love to put money on it with you, but hey your track record is well known financially.

Ask Peter McCabe what he thought of blacks, he was on the list too. Had some good surfs with him there, he was honest, he got a huge, huge shock.

Surprised you don't remember it... well maybe I'm not.

'Tow bds are heavier..actually they are lighter now than ever...!!'

Maybe that's why so many people were underwhelmed with the performance on the clip you posted.

Again, maybe that one session too many. I said you have never competed with, or against elite athletes, or trained them. Does knowing one make you an expert on training, or competing? I know some people love that shit.

I have met you before that. I never thought you were fit, just the opposite.

It was you that said no other surfers, maybe, almost Laird, could compare fitness wise to RCJ... after admitting you said training was a waste of time, and actually was ruining surfing, and after he said he virtually did none in that movie that you said was bullshit. Yeh, I do think that's fucking hilarious..

Udo, I've fixed plenty of cases where surgery was supposedly the only option. When my friend fixed Waugh, Meninga, Cash, Carroll, they were written off by experts all over the world. Surgery the only option. So were his methods written off. Yet they sought him out, and he fixed them, and proved all the experts wrong. Their, the 'experts' that had written him off, ego's didn't take to it kindly, yet you'd think they would be stoked. Sometimes surgery is the only answer, but our culture is generally ridiculously unfit, and many athletes have training regimes that are causing injuries, so often its not.

You don't understand the significance of weight classes, simple.

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mothart commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:01am

Oh gee, thought you might get your knickers in a knot over that.

Your right, I'm no fitness expert, I could count the number of hours I've spent in the gym without taking of my shoes. My BMI is bordering on obese, and I've been described as a stomach with arms and legs. Never really liked gyms, too many mirrors and self love, plus I'm lazy.
'been snowing up here'? Nar can't remember last time I mucked around with that shit, alcohol is my vice, thought you would have worked that out.
As for help os, blew my knee out first wave on a three week trip, your help with the knee was standard stuff, where you really helped was making the last week of a shit trip enjoyable, you where extremely generous with your time and knowledge. So if you think I have insulted that hospitality, then I take my comments back.
But come on mate 'all the places you reckon you are a legend at'? Fuck, if I come across like that I am a way bigger dick head that I already thought I was.
Only saw Todd surf HS, he fucken ripped, don't know if this was before or after your training, but car park talk spoke of mind blowing seasions. I never doubted his ability ... Where was I? I hadn't blown into town yet, spent too much time up the Goldie through that time.

You keep talking about how only money will attract ultimate athletes, but isn't tennis one of the richer sport? I don't know I'm asking.
And the cricketer, well I could have left them out, some of my old school favorites had body shapes like mine.
The yoga thing, well I'd seen you writing it off and found it interesting that you where right into it, was it no good?
Mate, you take up a lot of room on these forums, off the topic. There could be a discussion about the queen, and somehow you would turn it into how biggest is best and Todd at blacks.
Most people on this sight couldn't give a fuck about blacks, and for those that haven't been there, it does turn into an unrideable bommie at size, where the smartest thing to do would be head up the coast.

Anyway mate, don't know you well enough to know if you hold gruges, up to you.
Next time your up, hopefully we can have a surf, laugh and pay each other out about pulling back on 3fters.
Hope you and C are well, and her family are recovering well.
Why don't you

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brutus commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:21am

WTF are you talking about with my finances what are you dribbling on about....yeah so I don't have as money as I used to a 5 years of fighting cancer you scum bag ,never ripped anybody off in my life...wWTF are you accusing me of.....??

You are so full of shit I guess you think that its funny getting cancer given a short time to live ...and then fight for ya life for 5 years.........and have to borrow money for some pretty heavy bills...some c'mon scumbag ...whats so fucken funny.....???

as for all your other garbled rubbish about being a beefcake......who the fuck are you ???
you spineless coward......yeah I am pissed at anyone who laughs at people with cance as I have spent a lot of time in cancer centers these last few years and if you saw the kids etc who are just happy enough to have another week or a month...or a year....and you denigrate at any cost ...just so your roid ridden brain can make some insignificant point about.......who fucken cares......

the next step will be really personal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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stunet commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:37am

Uplift...FFS, leave it out. Hard to believe that someone who can contribute so much would sink to such a level. Questioning anyone's financial state in public is a dubious play but after what MC's been through...?

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caml commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:39am

blindboy, this thread has really been popular ,ive been reading but didn't want to join in the decade old tow vs paddle discussion. I thought that it would be the same old shit but it hasn't been . thanks to MC who told us some interesting info about towing board design and relating it to modern paddle surfboard design . im very happy that tow surfing has become less popular to paddle surfing,and being the against the grain type of surfer I have been tow surfing last year on about 8 occaisions . utilising that theres not so much crowd all towing at once I did enjoy the new experience . with all the skis and equipment being redundant I managed to get hold of 2 tow boards free of cost and met a guy who wanted some one to tow with . so there it began, I joked about how a towboard couldn't be sold because nobody wants them anymore,they are redundant and worthless in a surf shop ,(cheap tow gear) bummer hey ? I do believe there is waves and days that towing is great, why not ? one thing I want to point out is that you said paddle surfing big waves isn't progressing and you thought that towing could progress . I think the opposite for example nobody has tow surfed better than laird did in the mid nineties ! but paddle surfing has progressed to the point that there is now a big wave world tour and crew are paddle surfing jaws, cortes, etc and all the big waves anywhere by paddle power. Australia has a couple of amazing tow waves that are much more favourable to tow than paddle .ie big Cyclops ,pedra, the right, big shippies . slabs in general, aust has plenty . so towing is still relevant in Australia, and the Oakley big wave awards awards $20000 to the surfer who rides the biggest wave each year, which is almost certain to be tow surfed rather than paddled . so that promotes tow surfing and the best big wave riders keep doing it . the Oakley awards paddle in section is still a lesser event where the winner earns $5000 . I have being disagreeing with that for a few years trying to rally for a change in prize money but as yet it hasn't happened . todays big wave paddle surfers are training hard and will take the sport to another level the next few years . some of the crew are elite sportsmen in other sports also like Jamie Mitchell paddling and mark healey free diving. years ago people would drown if they were subjected to some of the beatings and hold downs but now days the surfers train hard at it to keep them alive during these massive surf episodes . there will still be casualties because they are raising the bar and taking risks that are more and more extreme . just saw pics of girls doing it also at jaws, kk and paige alms .they are paddling waves bigger than most men do in Australia .

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 4:30pm

Thanks for that caml. If I was writing the piece now, after all the input, it would be different. I love reading all the comments because they always make me think again. I don't always change my mind but I always learn something. I think now I would probably make the comparison between big wave surfing as a whole and the pro tour along the lines of big wave surfing having a greater scope for development over the next decade. Take care!

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wellymon commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:45am

Brutus you talked about asymmetric boards you were shaping for a bloke in Vic in another thread.
Are they becoming a viable piece of equipment in certain tow waves, or are they frowned upon as being too weird.

Another question, flex does this help or is stiffness the key...?

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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udo commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:45am

Waugh ,meninga ,cash, carroll written off by the experts but your [imaginery] friend fixed them..............his name please so others can seek him out for help.

testimonials ......are there any available ? other than toddy archers .

aw fuck it ill chase up tommy c or nick myself .

nick c are uplifts claims truth or fiction.......I know you've been following this,
also nice piece on the realsurf forum re surfers builds muscle tone clubby training e.t.c
change channels uplift and read what nick has to say you may learn something maybe even some manners.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:48am

Hi All...just let loose at uplift as way of explanation...a lot of the people I was treated are no longer with us kids and all ......I am supa sensitive to this subject.....I have seen some of the most courageous kids people that I have ver witnessed...I just don't understand sometimes how I made it, as far gone as I was.......

uplift got me and I realize I will always a target so the best is for to quit these forums.....as I hate getting this stressed by a moron like uplift...

thanx guys I have really enjoyed some of our banter.....this time over and out for good.........have a nice life ya all!!!

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udo commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:00pm

Maurice please don't leave us........your tow -paddle- shaping knowledge is to valuable.
stay on but refrain from replying to the uplift.
keep well.

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wellymon commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:06pm

I match that comment.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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uplift commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 12:57pm

You come out mouthing off brutus, about my honesty and credibility so stop blubbering if it comes back. I don't respect you in the slightest.

Yeh, its all bullshit udo, you idiot. Find out. I can flood this site with testamonials if you want, why bother. You're already a fitness expert. Plenty here.

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udo commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 1:47pm

O.K. flood it with testimonials.......please............ then you will get the credilbility you deserve....... I'm very sure others would like to read them.............is proof to hard ?

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stickyson commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 1:55pm

Yeah still stand by my quote of "uplift the terrorist" definitely has serious issues that boy. Grown up reading articles about MC most of my life and I take my hat off to him has had his battles, survived and still has time for other people. I am no footy head but an article in the sun herald caught my eye last year in relation to an AFL footballer and MC St Kilda or ex St Kilda I think the article was an inspiration and a credit to you. I have a son that is at the top end of surfing paddles size, tows slabs and still loves a three ft. beachie and have had discussions often with him about some of your thoughts on design etc, suppose what I'm getting at is would rather have Brutus on the thread than a repetitive tosser like the terrorist!!!! So let's get it back to tow vs paddle rather than dickhead against the world

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uplift commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 2:20pm

I'm pretty sure one of the glossy mags did a thing about him helping Carrol udesless, so one of these media experts should know.

I put Ant's reference because some smart arse claimed its bullshit, and it isn't, so he's just totally wrong. Now, suddenly that one's no good... you idiot. A classic surfee.

Stickyson, don't know if you noticed geek, but this isn't the world, its interexperts. Could one of these surfnut geeks, how about you udes, do anything like rehab anyone recommended to have surgery. Of course not, but hey, don't let that stop you being an expert. Google on united.

And yeh moth, I helped you out heaps, fucking heaps, despite not knowing you from a bar of soap, never heard of or seen you, because Pete T emailed me and told me he gave you my contact details, probably because I'm such a wanker. You were a fucking, unbelievable mess, so what was the point of doing anything re your knee, especially in the middle of no where. But, I helped you tons, however I could, felt sorry for you, putting myself, and my wife out, despite that.

I know how I surfed around here, I never surfed with you, and where are all these other places I'm claiming to be a legend? I don't believe in grudges, but think that anyone who would go on a picnic with Ivan Milat is a fucking idiot, so, next time, one of your up front mates here can bail you out.

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southey commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 3:32pm

Brutus .... i hope your still reading ....
perhaps you guys coudl talk to redbull and get some of the " G - Force equipment or even suits ???? i think this is probably the only way to measure the speed and pressure you guys are doing on different waves through turns . I know you won't get speed mesauremenst easily but it could be cross examined ....
although the only draw back is Upiity deciding that the big guys will have the upper hand if they were to use it in comps as a part of judgeing critique , as the bigger guys could take more inertiaral energy into the turns ......
they could now then measure how AMASING he/they was .... we could call it the " mirror effect " where they can literally have something to admire and measure themselves by .... fuck uplift , you could take this to the IOC along with MMA and " freeweights " .... the mums & dads spectators are drooling for it.

Stickyson , i think that was Justin Peckett ... but don't quote me .....
although it was more along the lines of MC giving the young fella some perspective to his " plight " .... if anything it championed the presumed fact that surfers looked upon and envied AFL footballers position in the community .... whatever that means . maybe Brutes words rang some bells and revealed some home truths that ( justin ) whoever was blinded from .. either way it takes courage and generosity to pass comment that sometimes needs to be said even though the recipient probably doesn't want to hear it .... are you listening MB .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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brutus commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 3:56pm

uplift,I am not blubbering ,ya hit a button with me that made me angry...I am more angry at myself for falling into your unsubstantiated ,delusional comments as usual.

I can normally take as good as I give,but ya got me on that one as I am still recovering from a pretty traumatic year ,and also its also nearly a year since I attended a funeral of a 6 year old who died of cancer . I found myself getting a little too angry, and was preparing myself to slip back into some of my old habits which would have involved wishing physical harm on you...which is waste of time and energy as we obviously have no respect for each other...so whats the point in even talking to each other...and getting into the realm of threats and ......??

I am not going to get into a who's tougher or who's got the bigger..dick......I know who I am and where I stand in the global surf community,and what respect really means..

I realize that there is no-one on these forums that respects you so I am just one of the many....but there are a lot of people on these forums that I like talking to ,and who have valid questions on surfing equipment,and also what the future holds....which I enjoy....

so yeah I spat the dummy and threatened to never come back on here,....and then I realized that's your game.....even though I am yet to see anyone show you respect here...I have been certainly been shown respect by a lot of the readers here...and have reciprocated in kind

So I will continue and just will ignore you ...as you should me.....I will not be drawn again...

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reecen commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 4:03pm

I am so happy everyone is still here.
Lines like this make my day even more enjoyable;
"I found myself getting a little too angry, and was preparing myself to slip back into some of my old habits which would have involved wishing physical harm on you..."

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neville-beats-buddha commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 4:04pm

A very dignified response.....well done Maurice. I don't comment on here much but always read them, especially when yours appear. A couple of statements you've made have been real lightbulb moments for this fledgling, backyard shaper. Stoked your staying.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 4:16pm

Wellymon,yeah still ride slightly asymmetric bds and especially fin placements.....have the frontside side fin at about 1/2" more forward than the back side fin ..longer bottom turns shorter radius top turns...works great in long walled waves......

I am still a big believer in asymetrics but they are not commercially viable....very hard to sell s/h bds...

Hey Camel....its really interesting in the paddle bds at the moment where guys are really trying to get big bds for each spot......had a long conversation with Mark Mathews yesterday about his new 10 8 for Jaws Vs his new 10 0 for Mavs...he spoke at length about the difference in Shanos bd for Jaws and Mavs and actually saw him after the mavs...its so good to see everybody swapping bd story's and bd dimensions trying to help each other out,as are the shapers....t

I spoke with John Pyzel the other day about how much money he didn't make that week as he had so many 10+ bds to shape we laughed at how its such a great passion to make em...and we wouldn't change a thing.......we get the feed back and just love shaping them as we know that if we don't get it right ...these guys are risking their lives.....we actually feel responsible......how weirds that!!

Southey..I am seeing RCJ this weekend in Hawaii and will discuss...will keep you posted...hey it was Brett Peake from the saints......

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rusty-moran commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 6:19pm

Camel, good well considered comment there mate. I think one aspect intimated but not specifically mentioned by Blindboy is that tow surfing has forged new thinking about equipment which has been embraced by paddle surfing since the nineties:

For example, weighted tow boards has led to weighted paddle boards. Today I caught up with John Carper and had a look at Dorians jaws boards- 10'6" with 4x 6oz bottom and 5x 6oz layers on top! Weight of 27 pounds!

Floatation is now standard for paddling.

Pwc rescue/buddy system also now standard.

Surfboard design- as per Maurice's insightful explanations, JC said he has gone very flat rockered for Dorians jaws boards after adapting the flat rocker of his tow boards. (Interestingly, his paddle boards have a bigger vee bottom in the tail to avoid lift- MC?)

These transfers of knowledge across both modalities is unreal for all concerned as the refinements trickle down the line. But in my view, I agree with Blindboy, that the new equipment ideas and next level surfing improvements have flowed mostly from tow to paddle, not vice versa.

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freeride76 commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 6:36pm

Thats not exactly what he said Rusty, or even implied.

His argument was that tow surfing was the vanguard of performance and paddle was stagnant.

The main performance improvement in paddle surfing giant surf is in the thing itself ie that people are doing it successfully where Laird said ten years ago that it couldn't be done.

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rusty-moran commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 7:16pm

I think this line mostly impressed upon my mind:

"In terms of technical development, tow in is the future"

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freeride76 commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 7:25pm

And the counter argument was : 'maybe we've already seen the highwater mark of tow-in and what was learned there is now bleeding into the development of big wave paddle-in.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 7:34pm

That was my point in a nutshell rusty. The paddle in stuff is amazing in its own right and my comments were not meant to be some sort of value judgement, only a prediction based on observation. What has come through on the comments is that I was probably drawing too strong a distinction since there is a significant overlap in the surfers and designers. If I was writing it now I would probably draw a more explicit contrast between big wave surfing in both its forms and ordinary surfing, but I stand by my original position that tow surfing has the greatest potential for innovation.

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roger-ramjet commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 7:53pm

Are fins with inside foil still preferred when towing really sucky waves Brutus?

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uplift commented Tuesday, 28 Jan 2014 at 11:17pm

bruteless, if you want this to stop, just stop. Why bring up veiled threats, 'you might get angry ', 'dick waving tough guy', 'physical harm', if you don't want to go there? I don't give a fuck about why, what, whatever you think, or whatever you claim you or your world is. You aim that shit at me, it won't stop, so if you really want it to stop, leave it at that.

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brutus commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 1:31am

Rusty,JC has been doing some amazing big bds,as he has such great knowledge and of Course Shano testing and giving feedback...the lower rockers for Jaws are like he ol Brewers with more Vee,so as to get rid of as much chop as possible and also so you can immediately start angling to try and turn 3/4's of the way down.....where as mavericks is another whole ball game.....more rocker and shorter....but still heavy,as when you talk to the guys paddling its head down and catch the wave as missing it and getting the next wave on the head...ahhh ...yeah supa heavy creates inertia ,which you don't really need on a tow bd ,as you want to surf like on a small bd,and no fight the weight thru turns....

We found this out years ago when we forgot the weights and RCJ went and bought an Axe head,which enventually came off and guess what.....suddenly Froth could go verticle...love those happy mistakes...

Spoke to Reef last year about his 20' barrel at Cloudbreak...he rode a 7 4 with a set of double foiled tow fins which everybody now uses as they work so much better at high speed.....

as for vees in the tail etc..this an old spiral vee which I love as it puts a bit more release behind the fins by a bit more rocker on the rail and leaves the spine intact which creates a bit more drg but acts like another fin.......heaps of grip.........I actually use vee in the front 2/3rds of the board flat between the fins and spiral vee...and a bit less entry curve that other shapers as I used a magic 9 6 bd Of Noah Johnsons ,as the generic model for all my present day guns...
there is a lt of refinement going on right now in paddle bds......but I agree with BB that Tow has certainly opened up more design aspects for me..where I am trying with some success to create a catamaran Vs a mono hull scenario..which has all come from higher speed performance surfing...which I know yo have seen .ey Rusty!!!

I think paddle has taken surfers fitness to a new level.....and the inflatable vests have saved a lot of lives already.....but as you know design never stands still.......that's what exciting about being a shaper and working with the worlds best surfers......yewwwwwww

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braithy commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 8:48am

I just read that Greg Long story in surfer ... heavy! Makes me want to curl up to a funboard and never let it go.

When I read things like that, I can't understand how more people aren't being killed doing the big wave thing.

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wellymon commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 9:31am

IMO,Jet skis have narrowed down the safety factor.
Great story, positive thinking and insight for all.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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brutus commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 11:41am

those inflatable vest have saved a few guys MM says its like 1/2 the wipeout now ...which is still major.....

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mothart commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 2:45pm

Can anybody put the links up to twiggy's two 10s from mavs?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 2:53pm

The Mavs Invitational heat analyser is totally on the fritz. If they fix it I'll record and post 'em here. 

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brutus commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 4:59pm

hey read the Ian walsh interview on towing jaws the other day.........he did not seem underwhelmed.....

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caml commented Wednesday, 29 Jan 2014 at 5:10pm

hi mc can you please tell us about the double foil tow fins that you said everybody is now using ? what size surf? and what waves ? with quad front fins also maybe ? and just reminding you that I have used them since about '93 since marty littlewood started me . I have the future fins s-tow and also I use twig fins they have a slight inner foil . I know how they feel but hope you can tell me something I don't know ..thanks

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brutus commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2014 at 2:11am

Hi Caml......yeah funny you should mention Marty as I learnt about double foils from a wind surfer named Aders Bridle who was a dutch Legend...and he had done tests in test tanks in Holland and found out that 30/70 foils worked best at high speeds on wave bds.....if you remember I had the factory next to Martys,and we were always tripping out on designs etc.....and that's when I started to tow........

now days it seems that flat foils work up to double overhead and then we start using 80/20 foiled fins in thruster/quads.......

just so you know RCJ,Noah J..are using C-drive fins in tow bds and paddle boards and I use them in all my short bds..same deal up to 8' flat foils...then double 80/20 foils...RCJ used them in all his 9 0 and 10 's this year...and Noah swears by his double foiled quads all the way to his 10 6...so bit of good R&D going on with fins at the moment.....hope ya surving summer OK?

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caml commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2014 at 4:58pm

yeah mc , I can remember you and marty learning from each other and I was martys apprentice for a brief time learning and riding the double foils , and soft tucked edges yous guys did sometimes for the guns . I foiled them into manymany of my own boards just by hand so they would project further . the concave fins v1 and v2 stuff , how big a wave can ya use them for ? I like them fins too , up to 6ft ?

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caml commented Thursday, 30 Jan 2014 at 5:00pm

oh yeah the c-drive fin , that was a fcs model only right ? dean cole design ? have used em yonks ago . had no idea they were good in juice size surf .

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brutus commented Friday, 31 Jan 2014 at 1:56am

Hey caml...the foiled V1 V2's with concave actually work to quite big.....I used a set of EA/s V2 last year in Hawaii in very big Lanikea..worked a treat....

the C-drives are definitely great in bds RCJ and I used them in all bds now...I just lost mine somewhere and went back to big MF's...nite and day...so much more drive and bds go faster......not sure about Dean Cole.....but Troy now makes and sells em....and as I said before Noah J swears by them at the bay and Avalanche....

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wellymon commented Saturday, 1 Feb 2014 at 5:49pm

Hey there Brutus, probably my last question for yourself and others in this thread is about flex.
Myself, being from a snowboard testing background with Burton, flex laterally and torsionally has a very big part of the board performance, depending on various lays of the materials in construction....? Get what I mean?
This flex can come from either body and weighted feet or can come from your feet being strapped down and using them laterally and torsionally ! Heel/Toe, Front/Back.
Being strapped in on a tow board.? Do you think this tech will advance depending on materials where they can have their own memory and go back to being stiff in one plane...? Similar to what is standard today.
I know RCJ has done a bit of Snow shit and this flex orientation/movement/feel with feet comes with many days riding.
Just a thought from myself, which I think will develop with technology in materials/riding time....?
Cheers

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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brutus commented Sunday, 2 Feb 2014 at 12:01pm

Wellymon,now we are getting tech,we have been working on this for quite a few years.....I have no doubt that torsional flex is what we are trying to achieve and that lateral flex is soggy flex with soggy memory...

Spoke to the guy who is the Hydronamic designer for the Americans,Americas cup boats! he designed the Oracle catamarans and tri-maran hulls.....amazing chat as I ised sandwhiched carbon and such thin tails and I replied that it feels like the tortion in the board is more relative than the lateral flex...he smiled and verified that its true....

I actually have most of my bds now with very thin tails,for Lower center of gravity,its flatter under your back foot,and also the thinness used with laminated ply strigers gives you more tortion/torque.....

we are currently working on a simple way of creating the back 3rd of the bd having increased tortion,less flex and having the fron 2/3rd of the bd as rigid as possible..

so bloody good question ...and yeah you are onto something.....hmm might have to pay attention to snowbds ,but the ol body might not be able to cope...ahhh don't stat uplift!!!

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wellymon commented Sunday, 2 Feb 2014 at 5:42pm

Yeah cheers MC,

You know exactly what I'm questioning!, As you say laterally, "lateral flex is soggy flex with soggy memory..."
This could come from advanced materials in the future...????
Haha maybe the materials they found at Roswell UFO incident, apparently the substrate that they recovered crumbled in your hand and then reverted to its original substrate form...?

Anyways the Hydronamic designer for Americas cup was probably a Kiwi, I heard when America were loosing they flew some NZ designers over there to sort out their keel problems....? Money talks eh.

I think thats cool how you are thinking and reacting with design in regards to torsional/lateral flex, especially in the back 1/3 of the boards, your onto something there, I know that you would need stiffness on a tow board at speed, as so you could keep the speed up, as too much flex would bogg you out speed. Is that right....?

I know this technology with designs and riding time will eventuate and will be handed down to all surf boards.

The thing I look at with snowboard design compared to tow/paddle big wave design in brds is you get mammoth hours riding in the snow each day compared to riding big waves which only happen every few times a year in certain areas, unless you chase them around the globe, even still....?
This is why snowboards have developed so far in such a small time frame and it is from this technology handed down to the ski industry , that has helped immensely with ski design now days to where they have come today....? IE Tow vs Paddle, they both will give each other a leg up so to say.

If you want I could get you associated with my mate from Burton Vermount, USA who has been designing and riding snowboards since Jake started Burton from day dot, many years , maybe he could impact your thinking with tech stuff as regards to whatever. He surfs as well, He is the worlds best engineer in snow board designs since Burton started, without a doubt.
I'm sure he would love to talk and be involved with tech shit towards surf brds at high speed.
Just a thought.

Thanks for the reply and don't bother going to the snow, keep towing in at high speed :)
Thank you
Welly

PS Have another question as well, in the next post.....

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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blindboy commented Sunday, 2 Feb 2014 at 5:54pm

Anyone remember the. Tinkler tail? It had built it high tensile steel springs and actually worked for half a dozen waves until the fibreglass failed!

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brutus commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 4:34am

Hey welly thanx for the offer....and its very rare that I get to talk to anyone who even understands flex/Torque........and thanx for the offer with Burton....but in some pretty amazing talks at the moment with Libtech,Mike Olsen who is one of the genius's who started Libtech......they have an amazing new technology to make s/bds and.....test Flex/Tortion etc.....and produce a new better s/bd that's environmentally friendly,and ding proof and possible unbreakable............one of the more amazing technologys and people I have met......very exciting as not many man hour involved in making the bds...and could blow the Asian Popouts outa the water....

hey BB...I rode a whole bunch of Tinkler tails...and that's when I worked out the the tortion was more important than the flex.

Bob Came over here to Vic ,in the old watercooled days with KT.......and we tested em to the point where we stiffened the central spine/Stringer...so there was no flex and that there was a significant amount of tortional flex as I could take off at bells (worlds hardest place to do a square bottom turn) and just turn and virtually go vertical....best bds I have ever had at Bells for doing bottom turns......and I would actually look between my legs sometimes and see how twisted the board was....

of course I broke every damn one of them in front of the single fin coming square off the bottom at the end of the bowl at Bells....I still have a broken one.....and have not forgotten the lessons.......its about the memory of the tortion ,combined with as little flex as possible but.......must have supa memory /Pop.......like G10 fins......

Over here in the USA there is a company called applecore stringers,who are making the finest stringers in the world...and I have been using them in all bds for 6 mths now....insane as the guy /Brad can work out how much flex and tortion there is per square CM.....Eric Arakawa met with him this week...blown away we think we will have stringers for Hawaii next year with a new glassing technology,HydroFlex....that is truly amazing...... not unbreakable,but will cut breakages by way more than 50%.....so lotsa new stuff going on...but a lot of old trial and error coming to the fore..

its so amazing over here the level acceptance of new designs and technology's....its mking OZ seem a bit of a back water......will be interested to see how soon the pros will get onboard...I know Kalohe has some serious new bds......and is getting some amazing new tech bds......

sorry about the rave ...but I just love tech stuff and am in my element over here....yewwwwwww

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blindboy commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 6:17pm

I had one brutus and it did go well initially. I didn't actually break it just pushed it until it had reverse tail rocker! I didn't get another one as the price per wave was way too high but it certainly proved the point that flex is functional if you can overcome the design issues.

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Cetus commented Monday, 9 Feb 2015 at 8:11pm

Hi Brutus,

Dunno if you'll find it relevant but...

Coming from a bodyboarding background the discussion around flex resonates with me! Dropping into slabs it was always about three (opposing) points of contact/forces. 1. down on the back (inside) rail with the hips to drive speed, 2. down on the outside front rail to keep the board flat to the water and not lose any speed, and 3. up on the inside rail to fit into the draw of the wave and not nosedive!

Then transition and into the opposite flex when driving through the barrel. 1. down again but more forward on the back rail, 2. outside front rail up to prevent nosediving, and 3. inside front rail down to drive speed fit the curve.

Basically the whole board was twisted to fit the wave!

Dunno if it could be replicated on the standup, maybe with flexible glassing and cores, twin carbon stringers?

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uplift commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 12:22pm

If you look at the perceptions re surfing, and see how they hold up in the real world, there are glaring inconsistancies. One perception much bandied about here, is that Pro Surfers are much more flexible, coordinated, and skillfull than other athletes, and have extremely strong cores, and need to be much smaller and lighter to be so. The real world has however glaringly shown the exact opposite to be true.

When a world champion surfer, still regarded as good enough to surf on the circuit, entered the 'Dancing with the Stars' competition, where all contestants were on a level playing field, he was found to be the one of the least flexible, least fluent, least coordinated and least skillfull of the contestants. Judged the actual worst performance ever. His lack of core strength, and in surfers in general, was also highlighted, by himself. Great guy but... can he do anything other than surf? An unfit chef, twice his size won the contest. Thats the easily verifiable real world facts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlYY5tGZX1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0SjjO2wIUI

Surfers tend to think who could be more gung ho than big wave surfers? Like wise, when Kobi Abberton entered a similar diving based contest as one of the only people still in his prime, and absolutely no doubting his gung ho performances in the surf, most surfers assumed he would easily win. Yet, on an equal playing field, a retired cricketer proved that there are equally or even more gung ho people than much proven, top heaviest of wave surfers.

Highly successful big wave surfer Richie Vaculik's foray into UFC has shown that weight divisions are crucial, and that being a bigger, stronger, heavier athlete is a huge advantage, not hinderance. The dancing contest also put the superior flexibility, grace, timing, coordination etc argument of the much smaller surfers well and truly to sleep. The training load, and commitment of other elite athletes is made crystal clear in the UFC scenario.

As clearly portrayed on here by so called 'experts' the perception is that correctly applied weight training and size, increased weight, is a hinderance to performance. Yet, glaringly, in the real world a much better than average surfer, who was ranked amongst one of best to ever surf Gland by his peers, cites weight training as key to being able to deal with injury, avoid surgery, and continue surfing at an even higher level. Even getting the best wave of his life. That infuriates the 'experts', a common scenario when they are proven wrong in the real world, so the wagons are circled and the discrediting tactic is employed. Despite all proof to the opposite. Bruteless then claims blacks is nothing, yet Peter McCabe who I surfed with there, who is a legend at Gland, said, and proved, the exact opposite. Surprise surprise.

Clean and jerks used properly are a universely loved and adopted exercise by elite athletes. Again, despite the classic public, and 'expert' misconception concerning Olympic Weight Lifting, athletes know the exact opposite is true. They are the ultimate, transferable test, and developer of flexibility, explosive power, speed, core strength, and overall strength and fitness, and can be utilised in many ways. They quickly expose flexibility and strength weaknesses. I have tested many surfers with them and they always get a huge shock. The technique can quickly be taught by experienced practitioners, whereby skill is soon exited from the equation, exposing what's left, what's wanting.

The athletes learn crystal clearly, that if for instance a surfer a similar size to the average pro struggled to get reps with say 30kg, the ability to get 60kg overhead for reps will only be possible by genuinely improving flexibilityand core strength in particular, along with overall joint integrity, plus much increased explosiveness and overall strength and cardio performance. That's the real world.

All of this is easily verifiable, and is what happened, is happening, in the real world. Here many misconceptions are prolific, and protected by any means till the end.

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 12:33pm

uplift the magazine that mentions big todd ,was that the surfers journal mag,written by gerald 'the general' saunders ? i have read the story but cant remember if it was the story you mean .

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uplift commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 12:41pm

It was the one where you were high on the list too, and Todd's power and attack there were highlighted. As you can imagine, he loved reminding me regularly about it.

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 12:49pm

oh yeah i know the one,gerald wrote it . it wasnt a list but talked about maybe five surfers who were the best that gerald had seen there . and he had seen it all pretty much . mentions dave cantrell, sloth, cant remember who else. ?

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freeride76 commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 2:24pm

Scardy?

dibbles?

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uplift commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 2:25pm

Yeh, working all arvo now, but might have been TC too? Bill Morris used to like shootin Toddy too, had some good shots.

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stunet commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 2:30pm

Dave Cantrell
Todd
Liam and Garrett McNamara
Sloth
Don Johnson
Dave Davidson and Bill Morris
Lopez and McCabe
Camel
Of the pros, Slater, Egan, and Occy
 

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goofyfoot commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 2:37pm

Dave Thomas?

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 3:29pm

i think you have it right stunet ! that was geralds story in surfers journal and he talked about underground sorta surfers in his story . it was just (a year) before scardy started working there so he,dibble,d.t. didnt get mentioned sorry .although they sure do surf good. sadly gerald the general passed away just a few years after that.

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stunet commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 3:40pm

It was a great story by Gerald. He also wrote another memorable one in TSJ on Petacalco, Mexico, describing it like an early day Puerto Escondido. It reportedly focussed all available swell into large, intense peaks that needed 10 foot guns to be ridden. Over a sand bottom too, a rivermouth in fact. Unfortunately it was all destroyed when a dam was built upriver and the river course changed.

 

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 3:47pm

yeah read that one it was amazing story. heard some good stories straight from the generals mouth too .

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southey commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 6:10pm

this one .
" http://www.surfersjournal.com/pdf_article/jungle-nights-and-other-g-land... "

Don was a standout in my stints ... his Carbon Fibre boards were a standout too .
Caml do you know ex WA lad 'snake' ( not Patterson ) , had beers with him and Don in Bali one year too . You could tell he had done some serious time there , as he made sense of what was a merry go round up at Kongs .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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blindboy commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 7:50pm

I was just looking at the Garrett McNamara wave on the Facebook link. The wave never breaks and I suppose his main achievement is not coming unstuck on the lumps but imagine the turns he could have done if that thing had been clean. It would be something we have never seen before on that scale and impossible to achieve paddling in.

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roger-ramjet commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:21pm

Does anyone know if D. A. Lewy from WA is still shaping? Got a few awesome tow and paddle boards if him 4-5 years ago. He was glassing in fins with the 80/20 inside foil back then. They were a bigger middle fin with smaller outside ones like the futures Lopez fins. Wondering what he has been shaping lately?

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:37pm

If he paddled it would be more amazing

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:40pm

Yeah roger! Dave lewis .

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blindboy commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:40pm

Do you think it would be possible to catch that wave paddling caml? It was so fat and moving so fast my impression was that no-one would be able to paddle fast enough.

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:45pm

Dont remember him but was it spock ? He a g land legend

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southey commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 10:48pm

to be honest i thought it was " Snake " i had been introduced to . ( but in saying that i had imbibed one or two mushie shakes at the time , [ and genuine ones off johnny , not the ones they sell in the shops ] .
anyway he was hangin with Don , and since we'd shared waves with Don the week before ( it was Don i was referring to in "knowing Kongs unaturally well. " snake or spock " was ex WA then in HAWAII ('06) , hence hangin' with Don and friends . We had a great chat , including the ins and outs of "Stark's" , which he compared to Pipe . But i think he was talking more about the swell refraction and multiple reefs .... good times , cool guys .... you obviously had the " g-land bommie wired and what it did to different swells at G Land "

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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roger-ramjet commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:45pm

How are ya cam? Is he still shaping?

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:48pm

Not very good for paddle bb. Lairds foil maybe?

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southey commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 10:56pm

Dave Kalama , ( and others i've spoken to in regard to foils ) , have said that they are just too dangerous if you stack and get rag dolled . There is a realistic chance that when they stay on your feet you'll do damage to your ankles / knees , or they can be pushed around and hit you in the head if your bent out of Shape . And possibly worse if you let them loose ?

I've been spending a fair bit of what spare time i don't have thinking about possible variances in their design . If so would be fun , you might even be able to get to the bottom of these " capping wedges " that their riding in Nazarre ;-)

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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caml commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:51pm

Lewy been m.i.a. ? Good question roger r

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blindboy commented Monday, 3 Feb 2014 at 8:52pm

Love to see that caml!

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 10:26am

southey i dont think its spock then . dont know . blindboy, why are you so obsessed with tow surfers and the turns they could do ? how about the drop and take off then bottom turn . its not turns that make big wave surfing i dont think .its balls and standing your ground and catching it ! just paddling around in massive swell is extreme ,have you ever surfed big waves ?

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 10:56am

Not obsessed caml, just interested in the whole variety of what is happening in big wave surfing now. My initial reason for writing the piece was that, while I could see paddle in doing great stuff and pushing the limits, tow seemed to have lost its momentum when there is still, I think, huge potential for it to develop in all sorts of different ways, including huge slicing slalom like turns on fatter waves.
I spent a couple of seasons on the North Shore and surfed max Sunset many times, also surfed Outside Corner quite a few times on the biggest days of the season, and assorted other challenges. Bommies and reefs on NSW South Coast. Doesn't really compare to what is happening now but I don't think I have ever claimed personal experience in those type of waves in anything I have written.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 11:47am

no you havent bb so i was asking , tow surfing hasnt gone but its been downgraded from front cover news to where it should be . a dicipline of surfing but not the main show. its possibly a payback type thing? you know whats hapened is that the top big wave surfers world wide knew that tow in surfing was stupid because all too quickly the big waves like jaws became crowded with teams of surfers some far from qualified . some of these guys couldnt paddle a big wave to save themselves so the top guys made a point of reversing the damage that laird started. and lairds happy to admit that .they had to sort the sport out so that the fast track heroes werent confused with the true great big wave riders. they had to do it bare handed ! so many surfing magazines and t.v etc was chock full of new heroic big wave riders that were just pulled onto the wave by a jetski and most of them had no credentials in big surf. so they now have sorted it out to much more of a true sport where the best riders are able to be recognised for true achievments . some surfers wont tow they are that devoted to paddle but then theres surfers that understand theres a place for tow in . in the last month we seen pictures of ian walsh and twiggy being towed into huge waves . they know theres the odd time when its right . but in general its been put in its rightful place , its been fixed and if its paddle able then thats what they do they sort the experts from the beginers easily . the sight of a surfer dropping down the face from a huge paddle in wave is what its about , if you want see turns go watch pro surf comps ,plenty turns there . big wave surfing different . its easy to cheat at anything and cut corners thats what tow in does. i could point it out a million times but i will say one simply . in a running race by humans on foot, sure a bicycle will beat the runners but its a foot race and they dont want it to be a bike race they are running . you can change it but it aint traditional surfing its another sport and it has the potential to destroy tradition and thats what already happened . i like big wave riding because its not about turns ,far from it but i love to carve a bottom turn or top turn , riding a 10'0 or so doing a good turn is awesome for sure ,but its got nothin to do with five reos and a cutback thats another dicipline in surfing too.

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freeride76 commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 12:10pm

Fucking amen.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 12:22pm

Hmm have to disagree caml...depends on the wave you are surfing........to call towing cheating is like saying using an inflatable vest and having jet ski assists for water safety as cheating......

I realize that you love the adrenalin of the paddle and making the drop...even surviving on huge days when Closeout sets come....and getting a long bottom turn in.....how far can you push it???

Tow surfing opens frontiers on where you can surf on a wave and have completely different equipment...faster carvier....and make waves you cannot paddle into....

so its sort of comparing apples and oranges...

I agree that when Tow first came in it was a nightmare........still is at Chopes....too many kooks....but man you should check out waimea when it breaks and there are 80+ guys out...1/2 of em can hardly surf...ride 12' boards ....and 10 guys a wave.....ego central..man I surfed the bay!!

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 12:25pm

yeah it is all cheating , its a fine line there. no worrys mc i was just stirring the discussion up ! hah

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 12:36pm

hey mate stirrings our middle name....wheres Mr Uplift.........hey I often think back to surfing with WL in the old dys.......shit leggies big outside reefs...shittin bricks....no-one around........

yet had the biggest barrel best turn of my life at the age of 53.......on a tow bd......but still the paddle in the good ol days was the real adrenalin and pushing personal limits to where if there was a major mistake ...ya fucken dead.......and that's the fine line we tread now......that wave of Ian walshes the other day at Jaws...imagine going over the falls on that??? ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 1:16pm

thats so true about if something went wrong your dead . i was into surfing big stormy waves alone ten or more years ago , because of that reason . and yeah even the float vests seemed like cheating when i first saw em . and leggies oh yeah cheat ! a good wetty ,didnt have a good one of them either until two yrs ago . so i must admit im cheating too . i wont be suprised if they all get tired of paddling and towing makes a comeback but it be better if the ski was a crew rowing a boat instead.

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blindboy commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 1:35pm

Well if we're into stirring ....I watched some recent paddle in Jaws footage of a perfect day. It was crowded, the completion rate on the video was less than 50%. Many of the waves that were made had huge gaping barrels BEHIND the surfer. The way it was lining up a tow in could have made some absolutely epic barrels. Fair enough if that is the way the surfers themselves want it but I think sooner or later other pressures will come into play.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 1:46pm

thats one of the most common pro tow one liners , look at the barrel behind them !, and this one , theyre wasting so many waves !

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 1:59pm

hey I like the idea of a clubbie surf boat towing in surfers.......now there's a challenge...imagine at jaws......oops misread the set!!!

and yeah Blindboy the completion rate is pretty low and watching waves that could be towed into at higher speeds.....and supa high speed turns and barrels....maybe when the hype dies down on paddling ......???????

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:17pm

glad you like the idea mc, hope you can still find some waves to tow too . im able to do a bit of towsurfing since i started less than a year ago . theres been some days when nobodys out surfing and im learning the skills involved . one thing is that the boards feel too small and im not really surfing how i would like to . could it be because i prefer rather large boards always, or because my towboards are made by mc for case ? he weigh less than me .

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:23pm

Surfing... tradition? In the same sentence.?

That's funny. I downloaded and read that Surfers Journal article. Reminded me of some funny things. Toddy told me some classic stories about watching the Laird Hamilton show... wish I was there. He told me a beauty about getting stuck in the back of a bemo with some smart arse 'legends' on the way to GLand, and controlling himself. But later, when you were the camp co-ordinator Camster, they started a fight with some other 'legends', and you were forced to be camp 'bouncer' too, so Toddy to the rescue, which was a blessing, as he got his chance with the 'legends'. He said you had a good view under the table!

The Cantrell stuff is funny. I met Don Johnson, 'Hoey', I think was his knickname, deluxe guy, and Cantrell just before their first trip to GLand. They were with some guy Joe, a shaper from Surfers Alliance, who pretty much ran the show. He was one of the most hilarious guys's I've ever seen, they were constantly rendered helpless by him... where's our boards... shit, Joe sold them, where's our bikes, shit Joe... what's the problem...Joe did what? But Cantrell? My first 'meeting' with him was just a day at Ulu's where some really nice guy was getting hammered trying to learn to surf. He was harmless, and when the tide got good for the peak, I got him into a spot to catch one and get in. Cantrell was being super dick all morning, and when the guy finally got a wave, Cantrell just turned around, dropped in and faded him onto the reef where he got hammered. It pissed me off so much, I asked him why the fuck he did it, and it seems, 'I'd better shut up or I'll be next' He's an athlete that guy, he can fuckn' run alright, climb too. By a classic blessing when I went back to my room at Daiwan Beach Inn, moments later, there they are, looking for a room. Johnson and the rest were stoked, they didn't like Cantrell, and well, now he had new rules. Where to walk, and when, when to speak, what he was allowed to say, and so on. Obediant guy, learns fast. The funniest thing was they were absolutely pissing themselves the arvo before leaving for GLand, and when I asked why, Cantrell had bludged a lift in a bemo back from Ulu's, no room for his boards, so they were on the roof, blew off and Johnson's bemo drove straight over them, totally destroying them. They recounted every moment from every angle... gee looks like Dave won't be able to come with us.

I met Tim Watts on a plane to Bali, he was in Oz for business, and I was a pretty young guy who didn't even want to go to Bali, and was spewing I'd been talked into it. He tried to be friendly , and I was preoccupied with what I was doing there. On the plane he ended up across the isle from me, and a big tatted up skinhead was right behind him, pretty pissed and agro already. Crazy to think what flights once were. Not long into the flight the skinhead leaps up, screams at Watts and starts punching his face in, everyone bolts, and I had to do something, so grabbed the guy and tried restraining him, so he stops, I get him to sit down, Watts is pretty much out, and the guy is gonna cut my head off with his samurai sword when we get to Bali. I found the freaking attendants, who took Watts to First Class, and left me with the guy threatening to kill me. In Bali a bandaged up Watt's had all his contacts, the guy got hammered and arrested, and he was so gratefull, offered me all this help, gave me his details. I was young and dumb, didn't do it, but we met up a few times later. He was always so gratefull. But in classic surfing 'Tradition' I actually thought I would look him up a few years ago, last time to visit Bali, Toddy said he was always saying to do so. But his friend, who was there and remembered the whole thing said he was too busy or something, maybe he would ring. His friend ended up saying sorry, I don't know what he's thinking. I said probably thinks I want something, tell him na, just thought it might be good to say hello.

In Elliston you would see so much surfing 'Tradition', I've got no time for it. I even helped this guy and his chick heaps once, so much, even organised a sponsorship thing for them, stuck my neck way, way out, for them, pretty much was a guarantor. They just burned me for some quick bucks, got me in all sorts of shit. That's surfing 'Tradition' for ya. Funny eh., its all over the shop.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:30pm

hey caml...come over our way this winter.....and we'll show ya the time of ya life towing mate....

takes a bit of practice and if ya footstraps and fins are out a 1/4 "...the bds just don't perform...they are sensitive little things.......and not margin for error...

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:32pm

i spose you had nicknames for them too . did you have a nickname for todd?

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:34pm

With all the new design etc in big wave surfing it sure would be good to see a range of boards.
3 WCT contests in Oz, NO BWWT contest.
it's a shame that in this surfing nation that we can have open arms for the biggest commercial side of our sport, but be so negative to the more core side. the WCT not only encourages the younger generation, but it gives them a realisation of how good you need to be, it brings lots of amazing surfers with it which in turn progresses surfing in our country.
Like Camel said about the Oakley Big Wave Awards, there's no incentive for those big wave guys to paddle. 20000 for biggest wave regardless of tow or paddle. Thats a no brainer for ease.
No BBWT because of all the negative locals (that live 500km away, plus MC (brutus) who will no doubt be strutting his stuff at snapper, Bells, Margarets) leaves any Australian big wave surfer having to travel to find guys to surf with, compare boards with, and push their limits as they'll never know the World standard of the pro's.

Nice paddle in at Streaky Bay in the Finals of Australia / New Zealand big wave contest Caml.

getting it out there! positive!

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:41pm

thanks mc am keen , im sure its not the fin placement or foot placement .ive moved the positions around and got it feeling as good as it can be . i have tried a few different shapes and can tell . my normal surfboards are customised so having a customised shape for towing would work too . what i ride is not common ,they are twice the volume of most people. nathan rose has been making me good little boards ,latest 6'9 is 42 litres .

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:42pm

Ask him.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:47pm

hey S=L not sure what you mean by strutting my stuff at all the WCT events......but no is the answer.......maybe I will hang around at bells this year ,last year I went for the 1st time in 5 years.....maybe not....not sure what your point is .........

I thought that the BWWT was going to be on at cow bombie???

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:52pm

Caml you are riding what my bds are...42L......6 3 x 20 1/2 x 3...........hows Nathan doing haven't seen him since I left my factory to him a lot of years ago...kid had a lot of talent....my 6 9 is 20" wide by 3 1/4.......44 liters....

but I still ride a 5 10 x 17 1/4 x 1 1/2 tow bd......!

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 2:55pm

oh it is at Cow?
that would be a hard one to call 48hrs out as the winds are unpredictable!
alot longer flight for me too.
what do ya think of Caml's rides at Streaky in the oakley comp?
have ya been lashing him over the Exposure to the coast you apposed the BWWT ?
No, you invited him to Vicco! hypocrite

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:01pm

oh, my point was
I've seen your head on the tv at numerous wct contests.
but you apposed the bwwt contest.
i thought it'd be good for your friends RCJ and MM to have a contest here,
however, i realise they make money from surfing, and that for the little guy,
who would benefit from a contest, you don't care for.
unless they are in the oakley comp with photos at streaky, then you invite them to surf.

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:01pm

S-L ........don't pay any attention to the Oakley big wave comp so have no idea what you are talking about.....

not sure if he needs a damn good lashing I am sure you seem capable...I have known Caml for a long time and anybody can come paddle or tow in Vicco.....but just come to surf......is that hypocritical??

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:18pm

sl its nice to hear you talking positive , it would be good to be on side with you it was just a minor differing opinion that made you dislike me and have been a constant troll to me since. we can agree to dis agree, i do understand some of the things you say . now that we are off the sauce contest thread i will write a bit for your information . one thing i dont agree with is bringing the pros in to show us how its done . im probably a minority here but i have experienced this for many years in margaret river since 1985, that was the year that the first pro event was held there . there was always talking up of how good the pros surfed it and the big waves of margrets blahblah . but the best surfers and especially the crew who surfed it big never got mentioned and they couldnt even get into the contest area unless they paid or watever got a pass bullshit . i was one of these local surfers that loved surfing big margies . the contest would be held at the prime time each autumn and there fore shutting the beach for almost 2 weeks of prime time and not to mention the extra crowd it created and thousands of people moving to the area because of all the good (small wave ) surfing that was beamed around the world of the great waves that would occur each autumn for the contest . yeah great for the masses but what if your a keen surfer who likes to surf home break at its best at the prime time of year . regarding the bwwt event proposed in aust , if anyone cares to see the proposed wave being surfed well then just go watch it ! there are already australias best paddle and tow guys surfing it from dawn till dusk . they are familiar with the mechanics of the break so actually go well without judges and heat flags and hooters . often the local surfers would rather have some say in the matter just like they did at shippies after the early years when the movies and photos featured interstate surfers not locals .

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:11pm

hypocritical that you are loud about no big wave comp at streaky due to exposure,
and a few months later you are on this very forum inviting the guy who has a photo of a wave or 7 at streaky, exposing the place in an international photo contest.
Also on this very forum you tried to publicly belittle Jeff Rowley for exposing waves in victoria.
to me, you seem like you are contradicting what your on record writing

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:14pm

ah,
that was a refreshing read caml.
well said.
my post above was for brutus, who was part of the shippies invasion, even if he didn't catch a wave (he was just there to destroy us).

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:15pm

nobody said i was surfing streaky . your just tryna stir sl do you know where i was surfing or did you just hear from somebody second hand info ? by the way who are you ?

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:19pm

Caml,
did you not enjoy the company of Yazbek, Mitchell, Vaughan and Morgan at Cow bombie a few years back?
if what brutus said is true,would you not want to be in the bwwt at cow?
What do you think of brutus calling for no exposure (especially streky bwwt) and then you getting shots there

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:27pm

good heaps of excitment now at the keyboard ! got uplift,s-l,brutus all on the keys , right , s-l im not exposing streaky im exposing myself . the photos are of me surfing the backround is water . if you know where it is then good for you , im not saying where it is .you are .besides arent you always complaining about shippies being exposed . ? dont you support rowls ?

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:28pm

s-l......the whole Rowley thing is a lot deeper than you realize .....and I don't know any locals who supported his behavior......I was just the vocal one,as jeff decided to try and invoke restraining orders based on mistruths,and basically burnt everyone from the area in question.....

as for shippies......now what have I done.....???

there is a very big difference in having a Global surfing event at a spot than a few photos...

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:38pm

s-l you seem to know lots and obviously read the surf mags and are up to date with latest surf news . to be honest about the cow bommie ,no i didnt really enjoy the crowd at cows that day mostly because i dont know how the fuck they all arived on the day id been waiting for . morgs was on my team and he brung khy along for travel buddy . but how did mitcho know ? anyways it was good they were there and really gave it a proper charge whereas i wasnt in shape to charge it . it was a wake up call for me that these aussie lads were able to paddle big waves .

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:39pm

holy crap,
I've got the go ahead for photo's at albatross reef and that other famous wave next to it, which people mistakenly call something similar to the real name for albatross reef. hahahaha

i've gone off topic,

what weight class would you be in Caml? Brutus?

sorry,
i read earlier about stiring the pot!
I'm coming up too brutus.
tow with ya..
bringing my aqua tech housing and gunna shoot water looking out to sea.
no one will ever know where!

more photos,
with no landmarks.it's ok,
brutus said so.

sorry,
couldn't help myself

what about holmerX and MM paddle waves in final caml?
No doubt both Xbrothers winners when towing
but to put MM in final paddle? sponsors!!!!! wrong!
NZ getting shunned!

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:41pm

brutus,

here we go again.

there was a NZ big wave comp at papatowai for a few years,
rcj was in it i think!
but it wasn't until he and TRay were in tracks that Australians woke up to the fact it was a legit big wave spot!!!!!
understand?

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:44pm

s-l contests arent my scene, real contests heats and finals and that, but i dont mind the photo comps . i can surf alone or take the time ,and still enter those comps with just a good photo . yeah cow bommies a bit of a joke really it doesnt break often with paddleable winds . so no i wouldnt be keen to go in the bwwt contest , maybe .would consider it maybe.

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:50pm

'got uplift,s-l,brutus all on the keys , right '

That's nothin' look at all the heaps of sponsors I'm getting you now!

'by the way who are you ?'

You can forget that, that is classic surfing 'Tradition'.

'i spose you had nicknames for them too . did you have a nickname for todd?'

We had some beauties for each other, but there is one now that's getting a kinda ring to it... 'St Carmel of I SeeSee'.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 3:53pm

yeah the voting in the bwa oakleys is done by the registered bwa surfers in first stage then finalized by five international big wave expert surfers to decide winners. yeah theres always people missing out on making the finals .thats comps but , as i said my complaint is the tow surfers are in for the chance at much bigger prize . n.z is a fine example because its been heard of and entered for years in comps and won them too but i dont think it gets crowded too often . maybe i will have to ask leroy about that . i personally would be fine with naming the waves im entering in the bwa but its for outside reasons that i dont name the wave .

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brutus commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 4:00pm

S-l...not sure where T-ray and RCJ in NZ have to do with me......?

yeah bring whar ever ya want.....I have lotsa stuff never been seen by the public......lets just keep it that way....lessons have been learnt......lets hope we have learnt them....

nice to know you can come for a paddle or a tow .......in Vicco........just come for the ride!

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s-l commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 4:09pm

brutus,

brutus,you said one photo compared to a contest in earlier comments (couple mis ago)

i was stating that rcj photos did more damage at papatowai,
than the papatowai comp.

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caml commented Monday, 10 Feb 2014 at 5:10pm

are u there?

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 6:53pm

Upgronk are u there

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:02pm

Thats it, I'm puttin that fax on you sent me.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:08pm

Haha ok

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:11pm

It will be intresting i dont remember lucky u have got the archives

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:13pm

Sounds important from your threats

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:17pm

Im sorta keen to read this old fax i sent u 16 yrs ago thanks for doing the ok history work u legend mick.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:24pm

Camster r u there?

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:28pm

I don't doubt you don't remember. You were on the run. I was busy saving you from the lawyers. Toddy's seen it but. Shits all over his little magazine article mention. I got a copy glassed into one of his max's. He was chunderin' for weeks, and was never the same.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:28pm

The suspence is killin me mr blak legend

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:35pm

Its all a learning process. Savour the moment, always keep an ace up your sleeve.

A shield so to speak. Grovel some more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwK3VkbxLLU

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:37pm

Bullshit thats a load of shite!

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goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:40pm

What a fucken knob..

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:41pm

On the run hey? I was havin the time of my life haha

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:41pm
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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:43pm

What a fucken knob.'

No one can resist a very big Knob.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 7:55pm

Wheres the fax uplotus?

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Mrsuplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:07pm

Mick you are, were, and always will be a knob. Every fucking time people try to have a conversation about surfing you try bring it round to how good you were at blacks or some unrelated shit about weight training. You have become the laughing stock of the eyre peninsular. Every where I go it isn't " what's that legend lifty up to?" It's " how big a fuckwit is mick Bourne, making an absolute dick, and laughing stock of himself on swellnet"
You can't surf!
You fuckn never could!
Give up you tool!

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:21pm

'Every where I go'

You mean from swellnet to swellnet? Your 'world'.

'making an absolute dick, and laughing stock of himself on swellnet'

Oh my god, stay calm, ring 000, and just quietly, calmly explain your problem. Help will quickly be on the way.

Sorry, sidetracked, did you say something St Carmel?

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Mrsuplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:24pm

I guess in life some people do and achieve things others will want to read about, write about , talk about etc. You mick are not one of these people. You unfortunately have to spend your time trying to tell stories where you feature amongst these people but I bet they never knew you were there. Be happy with what you are which is nothing in the current or past surfing world. Stop trying to bring real people down who are trying to further our sport you twit!

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:35pm

Twit!!!!!!! Thats a bit fuck'n fiercesome... Twit????? Look, if I don't tell the stories, what will you do? You obviously savour every detail and word. Classic addict. Gee I don't want to read that, I don't think I will....

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!

'What's the charge your honour?'

'The guy in the straightjacket is saying the big guy brought his sport down.'

'Well, he certainly looks big and capable...'

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goofyfoot commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:43pm

Big and capable!
Haaaa more like ageing, flabby, decrepit imbecile.
But carry on uppy, ya funny bugger

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Mrsuplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:45pm

Hilarious how anyone who thinks your an absolute dick must be on drugs. What's your fascination with snorting drugs lifty? Got a habit you wanna tell us about big guy? There must be a few skeletons in the closet lifty? Not too many guys that think they look as good as you do have to shop overseas eh!

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:48pm

News Flash!!!!

'Ageing, flabby, decrepit imbecile single handedly destroys elite athletes'

'He just keeps makin us elite athletes and legends read stuff, its not farkin fair!!!! We are really smart and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'

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Mrsuplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 8:53pm

Must admit honey this is fun winding you up!
Go back OS where they believe your dribble mister!

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 9:00pm

No one knows, or wants to know anything about you anywhere. You are a swellnut. This is you. Surfing Tradition.

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caml commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 9:08pm

Surfees

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Mrsuplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 9:21pm

Definately mister caml

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southey commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 10:22pm

s-l ,
Brutus is not the person you need to appease , ( and neither am i for that matter ) .
I beleive he was the only person willing to be publicly scathing of JR , and for that alone he should be commended . The sort of attitude your showing here will not be respected anywhere but least of all here in Vic .
Caml , I'm sure knows the deal for here , and will be pleasantly surprised if he was to entertain Brutes offer . Conditions needed and experienced between here and SA differ greatly at different times of the year . And i'm sure there's a left out there , that will have him beyond Loco . Patience will probably , be needed .... , and i'm sure he has it in spades . you on the other hand are clearly displaying very little in the way of redeemable features , and as such will not be cordially welcome . Unless of course you were to display an about face or even lose that massive chip you think your carrying on your shoulder ....
gee uplift " Hero , to Nero and back in reality as a Zero " ... youv'e gone the full gammet today , so much energy .... did you accidently break the needle off , and left it stuck again ??! choose your meaning , broken record or OD of " supplements " ....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 10:42pm

I knew you'd be rivetted on every word souffle. But, very, very wise comment souffle'. Very astute, extremely intelligent, very, very well thought out, concise, cutting edge stuff. Witty too. As if.

Next you'll be telling us you fitted a breakthrough, cutting edge highchair to your boards, you knucklehead. Get back in your highchair, and have good, long think about things. Highchair for fuck's sake. Ludicrous.

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southey commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 11:25pm

how did you know Uppity .

" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGqdZNdb_o "

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 11:43pm

The minute you started waffling on about hydro boards it was obvious. The next step in that cutting edge, super core program will be this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrbtixVtoxw

Finally you'll be the envy of the Semi Pro's and get your weight down to under 10kg too.

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southey commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 11:51pm

but this is the chair uppity .... reckon you can get over yourself . If all ya got on me is a chair then your on struggle street .......
I have to spend hours ( not on a computer or desk ) working seated or low down .... plus when used backwards & tig welding for hours ( for leisure ) it actually improves any issues i would usually have trying to stand and bend over .
" http://www.haginc.com/products/hag-capisco/hag-capisco-8106/ "
but maybe i should forego an income and spend hours in a Gym paying someone like yaself to tell me how good you are .... I've done the weights in rehab , this ongoing management .... haven't seen the physio ( for the back ) for a year or two now .... anyway , maybe you should come down here and show myself and brute how to do whatever ... a little wave known by some as Luna's might be a good replacement for your beloved Blax , and since you've been disowned round' there you could school us down here ....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Tuesday, 4 Feb 2014 at 11:57pm

I can just imagine it. Oi!!!! 'Ere in Vicco we do shit different eh! Drop in on me an' I'll pick ya up an chuck ya on the rocks! Do as I tell ya ya little tool, or I'll dunk ya. Sit in the back seat knob, or I'll chuck ya out the winda'

'Soufle, what's that ya playing with in your highchair?' Why are you pulling the arms of that surfee doll?'

'Not so farkin' big now are ya lifty, ere'cop this ya weak cunt... '

'eeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaah!!!!!. '

'Its me uplift doll honey... honey... honey comeback!'

'Fark it, 'eeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaah!'

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southey commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 12:00am

i didn't start the talk of Foils ... i believe that was others ... I spoke to Brute about slalom waterski's speeds / suttle flex , and wake snake / mcski .... you have only had three things to share in every single thread for the last 2 years ....
Todd , yourself and weights ......

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 12:12am

So if you don't like it why read it? You asked for proof about Todd, when its provided, and shows you, your wise 'inklings' are full of shit, you just keep crapping on regardless. Nothing new, its tradition.

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southey commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 12:29am

i asked of Todds story ... you provided some puff piece that was supposed to help you conquer the world . ( fuck , Jason Moran got WC to character witness at a murder trial ) you produce a resume affirmation ! impressive not .... i still haven't heard the full story from or of Todd ..... Where is he now ... will he rip well into his 50's ... these are the questions that remain unanswered . no tough talk in Vic uppity ... I'm pretty sure the waves would sort you out on ya own .... you being so head strong , ripling , amasing , deluxe ............................................. , the elements have little respect for that approach down here .... no doubt as all your " friends " on here attest , you'll be found wanting ..... fuck you'd probably not even survive some missions to get into the water let alone out ....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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uplift commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 12:35am

There ya go again, and you are fitness training specialist, back rehab specialist, played top level sport, when you haven't actually done any of it. You're a classic surfee!

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wellymon commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 12:50am

{ ++++ ____----- ====== $$$$$$$ %%%%%%% ==== 0 }
BWS

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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brutus commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 1:59am

brutus,

brutus,you said one photo compared to a contest in earlier comments (couple mis ago)

i was stating that rcj photos did more damage at papatowai,
than the papatowai comp

s-l..interested to know how you would determine exposure from one photo VS a comp and what the effects were from either.......is Papatowai over run with..???....and why???

as for uplift....maybe you should come over here and show us your Beefcake body....oh by the way does this help you with holding your breath dealing with fear and does shriveled gonads from the roids improve your all round surfing ability??

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southey commented Wednesday, 5 Feb 2014 at 10:06am

uplift .... to answer your questions .
No , not fitness training specialist . But I've been considered in the top 1% in the past for fitness / ( beep ) test .
No , but my back / spine Physio - manipulative therapist is highly decorated , and has and still woerks with the Elite of the AFL amongst other sports .
YES . Weightlifting aside , i would kick your sorry ass in any sport of your choice . Even your beloved , B'Ball ...
I did more in my first 30 years than you could in 3 lifetimes . But this is not about me .... I'm a nobody , a figure of your imagination . Your worst nightmare .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

mtown's picture
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mtown commented Thursday, 6 Feb 2014 at 7:29pm

hi just had a qwick look at this story.i seen all of the comments.southy i see you live in vicco from your comments above so off this topic back to the shark thing in wa.fuckoff with your vico comments i thought you may have been affected but you live in vicco.i see your comments above show what a complet fucking tool you realy are.your worst nightmare.
fuckwit

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southey commented Thursday, 6 Feb 2014 at 10:42pm

uplift aside , i apologise for going off topic ( that is me winding the competitive one up ) ... don't make me an enemy . lol
i used to live in WA up until 2007 ..... i still travel there as often as possible . not that this matters . my comments on this topic reflect what real water users think , as so many friends are still their . i still hear the stories every week .... nothing you have said in this thread has gained you cred , my meandering topics don't do me any favours ... but shows you are taking this too seriously and should take a step back .

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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caml commented Friday, 7 Feb 2014 at 11:48am

blindy I gotta admit that the clips I just watched of mullaghmore and axi @ basque have some heavy waves being surfed damn good .

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blindboy commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 10:29am

Well that was the inspiration for the article, not those particular clips but just seeing what was happening with tow in and thinking there could be a lot more to come.

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caml commented Saturday, 8 Feb 2014 at 9:28pm

Hey mc nathan still shaping very good in your old factory . is that board i have thats made for case possibly not right for me ? even though our 42 litre is similar , I dont ride much smaller a board often. But do use much bigger volumes.

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caml commented Saturday, 8 Feb 2014 at 9:34pm

Mc when u make a towboard are there many variations used ? For different types of surfers ?

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mikehunt207 commented Saturday, 8 Feb 2014 at 9:44pm

Anybody out there got thoughts on fin placement specs for thruster guns? 6 and 17?

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brutus commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 2:25am

Hey Caml...that bd of Cases is nearly 10 years old also.......pre-carbon era...volume doesn't matter .......do you have the back foot strap at 7" from tail ?,then measure between the middle of the back foot strap (should be 7" for foot) to the middle of where your front foot is and it should be about 30" for you.......27 1/2 for RCJ and I....so 30 for you.

your back fin should be at 3 3/8 and side fins at 10 7/8"...that's the formula for ya stance Vs Fin set up......if you are 1/4 of an inch out.....the bd will either go too vertical or straight!!

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nochaser commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 11:20am

Brutus,you say pre-carbon era... volume doesn't matter...can you elaborate on this.

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caml commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 11:40am

was thinking I had asked a stupid question that I already knew the answer to . the answer mc, isn't what I had expected .that means to me that one board even if its made for somebody else should work for you as long as the fins are in the right place (and foot straps) and it says that in towsurfing that custom boards aren't necessary ? usually in my world of surfing I get custom shape boards that are designed to help me surf how I want . surely after trying the 2 towboards already and playing with the fins and straps quite thoroughly I can feel if the board goes for me or not . admittedly I haven't used your measurements that I can appreciate are your proven formula . but for me measurements have never been important to me compared to my own feel and experience at getting fins and my foot stomp position right . can you tell me mc when you shape a custom tow board do you shape em all the same or if the surfer is bigger or smaller the board is customised to their size/weight ? I cant believe it wouldn't be true . thanks anyway for the info here on this thred .

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brutus commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 12:09pm

the only thing that seems to matter in Tow bds is the relationship of where your feet are in relation to the fins.....and the other is if you are taller...you need a wider stance,but the back stays the same......you just move the front strap further forward from the back strap.....

also its s different technique where you lean on your back foot and drive form there and use your front foot to steer with....if you try and pump using your front foot and dig the front edge,ya do a lovely cartwheel.....so lean back and drive off the back foot!!

Pre-carbon was Carbon Kevlar,as Kevlar won't be broken ,but there was not enough carbon and as we went thinner....pure carbon gives way better tortion and flex....

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mikehunt207 commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 12:19pm

I wondered that myself, in a world where everybody,s personal surfboards can be so different but once towboarding they all ride pretty similar boards. Is it the future to all ride identical boards as someone as experienced as RCJ or the like? Guys who have clocked up so many hours towing and are exceptional surfers anyhow. could tow boards get bigger, wider? back to a 7,3 or 7,6 so you have a bit more rail when you start to slow down?On a giant wave a 7,6 will still feel small and manoverable compared to a 10,0 surely. i mean Kelly can ride 5,10,s paddling now does that mean everybody else can/should? Morris you stated that are only making boards for "your friends" now, does this mean you are being limited because your test pilots are so good that you end up with a formula 500 racecar that maybe not that suitable for lesser beings? Not trying to stir you up but it,s something that i always wondered from the get go of towboarding. The short tow boards make it appealing to guys who have always ridden short boards and want to take the rip and slash to bigger faces, but lots of the tow guys here have never surfed on longer thicker boards(or big waves even) before getting into towing . A longer board maybe= less ripping/slashing but maybe still work for someone who wants to get barreled and make the wave?

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brutus commented Sunday, 9 Feb 2014 at 2:56pm

Hi guys...must be too tired to throw in that I never make a tow bd smaller than your height,and preferably at least an inch or 2 bigger.....

the width also can vary from 17" to 18 " dpending on your size and weight...but I am yet to customize an actual shape to a surfer...like in s/bds where you can change fin positions,wide points ,tail flip,etc ....to accommodate whether a surfer is front foot ,back foot small and chunky or tall and lanky.....so many variables.....

hmmm maybe I don't make enough tow bds to really see....??

the thickness doesn't really matter when you are on a wave at high speed.....and you just don't need the length Mike......even an old fossil like me can ride a 5 9....

its amazing when you analize photos of uys doing bottom turns how much bds in the water even on big guns...I think its about 3 1/2 feet........

I have made slightly longer and wider bds for guys just wanting to cruise in bigger wves...but we're talking 6 2 x 18 x 2" thick.......

I guess its all about the buzz of surfing...its amazing to make a big wave comfortably on a small bd......

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caml commented Monday, 10 Feb 2014 at 5:06pm

hey mike that's worth saying , I agree , if you want to tow but you also want to bury a bigger rail it maybe the go for older school fossils learning to tow surf to get a beginers tow board that's over 7ft . the tow boards ive got are feeling mighty small for me . they do turn good especially after mixing it up with a 10'0 . thanks mc glad you had another think about that .

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wesley commented Monday, 10 Feb 2014 at 7:57pm

I'm enjoying all this. Interesting stuff. Should be more of it in these forums. Less arguing.

✌️

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redneck commented Tuesday, 11 Feb 2014 at 9:43am

Dont tow, its shit. Its for old kooks like myself.
Spend your hard earnt money on a 10'2" . Go hard , go straight, lifes to short to turn!

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caml commented Tuesday, 25 Feb 2014 at 12:42pm

jus saw the clip of garrett mac and his Mercedes benz towboard and he mentions flex and it also seems to have a speedometer and he clocks about 64 kms .

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wellymon commented Tuesday, 25 Feb 2014 at 12:56pm

Cheers Caml, heres the link, who funded that! Is that a one off or are Mercedes going down the surf board shaping design.
Wind resistance!
Loved his noises going thru chop.

http://www.surfline.com/surf-news/industry-news/garrett-mcnamara-on-his-...

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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wellymon commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 6:53pm

IMO I still believe in big waves towing in with speed with a shorter board that is a well performance surfboard to suit the speed and waves etc will dominate paddle in surfing.

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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wellymon commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 7:04pm

Its no different to Old mate who carved out a tree and used it to surf the waves back in the day.
Then came along new synthetic mediums to develop new boards to surf in a better way rather than the dug out tree...
Now we have Jet Ski propulsion and various surf boards to ride these amazing big waves.
These are advanced tools just like we used to use back in the day to open up a coconut;)
But better IMO.
Advanced technology .

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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barley commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 7:24pm

What about wave jets?

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udo commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 7:36pm

Electric powered surfboard -Lampuga, made in Germany.

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wellymon commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 7:45pm

Boring

Our brains are too small at the moment to comprehend the reality of what's happening in our forests . We're only just waking up so to speak . The big problem is we think we know everything, we are specks of dust on a timeline and we know nothing .

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udo commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 8:07pm

Yep ,and thank fuck there so expensive we don't need the next wave of euro wanna be surfers creating havoc at any surf break on one.

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barley commented Saturday, 7 Feb 2015 at 11:04pm

Your talkin bout tow in v paddle..this could give the best of both..just imagine big wave paddle needs more entry speed/earlier entry,press a button and boost turbo...purist/non purist debate?brutus any thoughts or dismissal?

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brutus commented Sunday, 8 Feb 2015 at 8:46am

been watching the advent of these powered s/bds........even been and checked em out in the USA.......

the idea that the board is self propelled by using an electric motor works until you go into a lineup with one of the bds....and it raises the question ....what would be the legalities ,would you need a license , would you actually be allowed into a wave area ,as Jetskis are not?

with what I have seen....the motors are quite small...but the batteries are still big.....

so to answer the question.....when you tow you can use a bd your same height and down in the 20ltr range.........Vs maybe a smaller than 10 6 which is currently the size everyone seem to be using........but the minute you use a motor on a bd........??

would be interesting to design a bd with a motor.....knowing before hand the size of the motors......imagine in a few years when battery life and size evolve to a point where we all have them.........???

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caml commented Thursday, 28 Jan 2016 at 9:46pm

Blindboy what have you got to say about this topic now ? Paddle surfing has progressed further & faster than towsurfing lately . Tow surfing Nazare has been progress no doubt but paddle in progress at jaws & nazare is the biggest movement occuring I think . A decent time to discuss this topic further I think

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blindboy commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 8:28am

I agree caml. Paddle surfing has definitely come a long way in the last few years in terms of both popularity and, at the top end, performance. Despite that I would still maintain that tow in can deliver higher performance. I'm not sure that this will be allowed to happen with so many paddle surfers in the line up but time will tell. To be honest when I watch a lot of the videos I wonder why half the crowd are out there as they really don't have the necessary skill level. Big wave surfing has always attracted a macho approach that is a bit at odds with the way we think about other surfing. So people get cred just for being out there and taking off even if what they do after that is severely limited. Big balls are all very well and clearly necessary in those conditions but if that's all they've got it doesn't lead to progressive surfing. A lot of the sessions I have watched, at Jaws in particular, I find it hard not to believe that tow ins would have delivered much higher levels of performance.

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 1:36pm

Blindboy : I would still maintain that tow in can deliver higher performance. I'm not sure that this will be allowed to happen with so many paddle surfers in the line up but time will tell. To be honest when I watch a lot of the videos I wonder why half the crowd are out there as they really don't have the necessary skill level. . So people get cred just for being out there and taking off even if what they do after that is severely limited. Big balls are all very well and clearly necessary in those conditions but if that's all they've got it doesn't lead to progressive surfing. at Jaws in particular, I find it hard not to believe that tow ins would have delivered much higher levels of performance.

Caml:There's actually women out there too , theres room for improvement with paddling but theres not much with towing because every set wave can be caught by jetski assist

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 11:45am

Well the guys are getting barrelled at jaws paddling . As for tow ins you can see at nazare towing and what they are doing doesn't seem to be much . There was a tow in at jaws this morn & all that happened was they fell off ! Then the paddlers went out and got barrelled . I think your failing to see something blindboy

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sharkman commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 12:11pm

I saw a lot of paddle guys eating it on the take off , and the biggest waves going unridden , didn't see any guys getting barreled yesterday .

x

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 1:29pm

Obviously a tow surfers comment Now I think I know who u are sharkman . Until that comment I thought u had some great posts

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goofyfoot commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 3:34pm

I'm not a fan of towing but what Sharkman said is true sadly. The biggest sets at jaws weren't being ridden. There is quiet a bit of footage going around that shows this

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blindboy commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 4:48pm

caml your opinion on this matter should carry more weight than mine and unless there are some secret tow in venues discovered or the paddle in thing backs off, we're probably not going to get to see much tow in, so I will agree with you to the point that at this stage, for the foreseeable future, paddle in is the future.

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 5:03pm

Your missing something obvious tho , nazare is towed every time its big , theres nothing stopping tow surfings evolution . Goofy & sharkman I think you watched the wipeout reel , does it matter that waves were missed ? Wat does that prove ? It proves how much harder paddling is & how easy towing is . I have seen lots of clips of great rides from yesterdays swell .you are just watching the ONE on swellnet right ? I can see that theres sets missed but that will never mean anything imo because thats the age old excuse that tow surfers use . " Look at all the waves missed " the oceans a big place theres always waves missed !

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goofyfoot commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 5:41pm

Yep you're right it does prove how much harder paddling is than towing. And it also proves that there is room for improvement with paddling and catching the biggest waves coming through on the biggest days.
Also you mentioned on here a while ago, to Southey I think, that you weren't anti-tow.
You seem to be getting pretty worked up at blind boy and Sharkman about the towing thing for someone who isn't anti tow. Personally I'd much rather see guys paddling than towing, but all I'm saying is there is still a lot of room for paddling to progress on days like the last couple of swells we've seen at jaws. It's not an excuse, it's fact

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 7:15pm

Everything you say is agreed with except me getting worked up about it , not really gf , I just provoke discussion on days when theres no surf & I crank it up a bit todays a day I have cranked up the discussion for entertainment if that makes sense . Your opinions seem to be based on spectating rather than actual surfing experience tho because to say that because the paddlers missed waves means zilch to me . U can only paddle so many xxl waves and it takes a massive energy peak to do it , if you aren't in the right spot then u dont go for it or u get killed . Thats why they say to paddle one bomb is better than towing 20

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goofyfoot commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 7:21pm

"U can only paddle so many xxl waves and it takes a massive energy peak to do it , if you aren't in the right spot then u dont go for it or u get killed . Thats why they say to paddle one bomb is better than towing 20"

Fair points you make there, i appreciate that.

"Your opinions seem to be based on spectating rather than actual surfing experience tho"

Your right, i haven't surfed 50ft jaws

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 7:45pm

And I didn't just mean you gf I meant lots of people when I say that the spectators that say about the waves that weren't ridden

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blindboy commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 10:06pm

......still a legitimate observation though caml! No doubt participants have a different perspective but unless you want to assert that those waves were absolutely unrideable they represent a missed opportunity. I think the same also applies to the numerous waves on which the surfers do not make the take off or are trapped at the bottom without ever getting on to the face. It's true very few of us want to put ourselves in that line up but that doesn't oblige us to suspend our powers of observation.

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penmister commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 7:26pm

Have to agree with camel on this one.What he is writing seems to make sense...

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 7:49pm

When shane dorian got the bomb before the bwt event started at jaws is an example of peaking . He couldn't do it again on the same day . I could see that easily , once he had got that drop he felt that if he pushed it again he might wipeout & then his whole season could be over like mark mathews & g.mac .(sidelined & hating it)

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freeride76 commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 8:00pm

agree with Caml......all the momentum is with big wave paddle, thats where the progression is, thats where the boundaries are being stretched and broken.
Watching Tow surfing in big waves (apart from Chopes maybe?) just looks boring now.
Thats just opinion but no-one can deny that after this El Nino winter all the emphasis in big wave surfing is paddleing in .

Would like to hear Caml or Sharkman's thoughts on design in big wave paddle in boards......is there room for improvement?

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caml commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 8:18pm

For sure fr theres room for improvement in bd design . That can happen in time just like it always has . Take for example the shapes of bds when they first surfed waimea , the bds developed . Well jaws hasnt been paddled for many years so maybe the designs will develop too .im pretty sure that what theyre riding is as good as is possible currently .I wouldnt criticize the equipment standard like some other observers have done because they are already the best in the world at what they do . Im sure some things will change tho & guys like George greenough & roy Stuart have observed this . I have some ideas but don't have proof that its going to work

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barley commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 8:02pm

Jetskis should only be used for safety retrievals or slabs..who's to say that the biggest waves on any day would get ridden cause you got a ski?
Its not only core surfers that hate skis..wakeboarders, waterskis general folk enjoying the ocean think these things are pests..lots more kooks get great waves cause they have a ski..wouldnt get them otherwise

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southey commented Friday, 29 Jan 2016 at 10:07pm

Don't get me wrong here . Whilst I've "dabbled " in waves of consequence . As camel has pointed out my opinions aren't legitimate as I've never surfed Hawaii .
From a pure observers perspective ( as with the majority of us ) , I noticed that this swell probably followed too closely in the back of the last , to see another " performance " of the magnitude of the last swell . Notably a few of the older gents are probably still a little sore , or worst still maybe some might be re evaluating their own limits ?!?
Yeah easy to see from the peanut gallery , but some times the truth hurts . This is perfectly understandable , just the pure mental fatigue that a swell you've waited so long for can be draining in itself . And let's not forget that without the inflatable suits and Jetski's themselves these advancements wouldn't be have nearly as exciting or sizeable .
Lastly , I'll go out on a limb and say that unless miracles of XXXL swell in glassy conditions start to become more prevalent , then we are nearing the limits of what can be ridden on the surface of these waves .
Tow isn't what real surfers grow up doing , and although it's been around for quite a while it's not something that anyone has been suitably trained , and groomed to push its limits in . If you look at Laird for example he was windsurfing , kite surfing , waterskiing a lot , and this will get Uppy hard . He also spent an unatural a amount of time in the gym .... I still think that ( as far as tow goes ) , not many have advanced very far past his performances in the late 90's . Maybe as others have stated , the tow scene has been shunned to mutant slabs and shifting peaks .
Okay, time to be shot down . And go .....

" SA's Reserve Capacity "

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 10:59am

Southey it is difficult to understand what your points are there , I cant work out a few of them . I think the one clip of jaws is misleading , there were bombs ridden at jaws this swell . From what I can see it was a bit less height than the previous swell when those huge waves were ridden . Also twas windier offshore breeze . Different surfers pushed their personal bests . The extended run of big surf may have fatigued some but not all ; tom lowe & nic lamb & matt bromley stepped up , sanchez,kemper,walsh rode huge tubes , longtime goofy marcio friere on a huge left . Edit : JOB
Tow in still has its place ; im a big fan of the aussie slabs too .im not here to sink the boot into blindboy I just want to point out that paddle in has made huge progress & I always thought that this article by blindboy was misunderstood . Sure towing has its place but things are in more the right order nowadays whereas they weren't in the past .

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sharkman commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 4:01am

I watched a lot of the latest Jaws video , and think that maybe the paddle crew have reached their peak as it seems the minute there is any wind out there , they start to struggle at the top of the wave and can't take off on the peak. I have absolute total respect for all of those guys and think they are incredible, but I wonder if some of the tow maniacs , like Ross Clarke-jones would try and backdoor the peak.
that albee layer guy who surfs an 8 8 really pushes the limit on that end bowl , but a as previously said the minute there's any wind , looks like its near impossible to take off in the center of the peak, but a tow guy wouldn't miss. the of course there would be a 100 wannabes out there trying to get the shot , so maybe its all just a dream!!!

x

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 10:17am

Dreams shakman ! Ross clrk had years of towing jaws already ! So did 100 or more lairds & what have they got to show for it ?

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penmister commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 5:17am

Shane Dorian smoked that wave..it was the best wave of all of it

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penmister commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 5:18am

Why would u worry about a comp..

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blindboy commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 8:52am

One of the things that occurred to me when I started thinking about this issue again was that there may be a middle road. If you consider the advances in battery technology and the size and weight of the paddle in boards it may be possible to design a board with a "paddle boost" to provide a brief burst of energy as the surfer catches the wave. Lots of potential problems and not sure exactly how it would work but worth thinking about.

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 9:55am

'It's true very few of us want to put ourselves in that line up but that doesn't oblige us to suspend our powers of observation.'

However, that's the crux of the issue. These so called 'powers of observation', are irrelevant, in fact useless, powerless, even dangerous, without the actual experience.

'Looks kinda small, a bit fat, too short, at least its clean and offshore... but aaayyee, I'm used to holler waves, corse I come from'... insert a myriad, a literal plethora of islands and points. My experienced observation was often, and in that exact, so entertaining clifftop scenario, shit its huge, really west and long, fucking square, and the wind is howling into it, the ribs will be insane. And as even the likes of freeride discovered, luckily there's an often visited hospital in town. Or as McCabe discovered, and even camsless witnessed, even half a dozen carefully crafted potato chips that worked great elsewhere, were soon efficiently and coldly converted into foam packaging. And soufle' is absolutely right, a couple of cliff top parks and cowering sits, a couple of groovy drivethrough's, or some ludicrous, reflex blowjabbering and group 'a huddlin' 'round campfires is equivalent to, 'yeh, I actually know zilch, fuck all about it, despite reams of... aaaayyyee yyyeeehhh mmmmaaayyyteee... I dun blowjabberin.'

Can't be that 'ard, its a toyota aaaayeee, plus its fully decked out, and zenner's good at fixin' shit aaayyeee....

Faaaaaaarrrkkk... shit 'ouw are we gunna get outa 'ere... look itz a farkin' cockie, OOOOOOIIIIIIIII, AAAAAAYYYYYYYEEEEEE CAN YAAAA GIV UZ AAAARR "AAAAAANNNNNDDDD... MMMMMMMMAAAAAAYYYYYYYTTTTTEEEEEEE!!!!!!

There is a God.

To the super experienced, the extremely difficult look super easy. 'Fark it don't look tooo 'eavy aaaayyyeee, eye yused ta chorp shitloads a loouurgs wiv me ol' boy... aaaayyyeee... and 'splordsy' rekuns izza (not to be confused with Azza... or the 'kid'... that's not the 'kid') peeeaaca pissss aaaayyyeee... an' eee rips at faaaarrrkinnn grooobbber 'ol down in faaaarrkin tazzzieaaaayyyeee... up in ver nor wezzz (not to be confused with yazzie)...

'Faaaarrrkkkk... dun meeee faaaaarrkin back in aaaayyyeeeee!!!'

Experience is everything. But, even experience is infinitely coloured.

'You cant run a four minute mile, its impossible.'

'I say you can'.

'You're a fucking idiot'

For some reason the sups, the tankers are handling the power, and turning better than the 'guns'.

The standard issue, nano power, lightweight surfeee glutes and quads aren't cutting it re powering off the bottom etc. The lack of weight in that area is handy for padding in, well handy for chins and dips and hanging ab work for that matter also. But as any experienced athlete knows its inevitably disastrous , glutes/lower back/hamstring and quads are the generator of real power.

Which reminds me of lil' gazza gee's 'foray' into 'heavyweight' boxin' Poor Pete. If only he knew that most of gazza's 'training' took place in the 'powder' room. Gazz 'reckuns' eee could've easily bin 'eavywait champ of oz ... aaaayyyeeeee... wiv me nosstrulls flared an' dripp'n an stuff!!! 'Except, especially in lil' gazzas case... thank God for boardies!!! Combined with the hips don't lie gazz, gee, its only gettin worse... come in gazz... gee poor Pete.

Thus explains the formation of club swillnut.

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 10:01am

Just doing a bit of sleuthing and it seems that the swell a few days ago had a bigger period & thats why they are getting problems . The swell when aaron gold etc got da bombs was 17 sec & obviously reaching top end limits , but the swell that we observed more difficult is more likely be due to another few secs period ie 19 . Theres comments by the surfers saying that it wasn't actually windy but the speed of the swell that creates the effect of a wind blowing up the face . Jaws is a seriously peaking wave that focuses swell heavily so when the periods that big it is proving to be extremely difficult to paddle into . Tow in division had the wave for over a decade to play with & do their thing , lets wait n see how paddle in evolves in a decade of paddle surfing jaws . The talk of motors / machines is the opposite of what the surfers want I think BB cant you see that its not all about having to catch the wave at any cost ? Its about the organic human being able to catch this wave themselves . For example in the Olympic games do spectators make observations that every sport could be done faster , longer , better if we put a machine in the mix ? Of course not even tho all could be improved with a machine

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 10:11am

Oh hi uplift your comment just beat mine to be next in line after BB .
Im still thinking about this fixation that some have that if a wave breaks without a surfer on it that an opportunity is lost ! I got over that problem years ago and actually prefer to see unridden waves than the ridden . It just reminds me whos the bigger greater more powerful one that mother nature is . I heard the comment many times by pro tow surfers "look at all those wasted waves" ! But thats a unhealthy mind state to be in really

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 10:27am

Yeh, you get to see the amasing realm of 'mother nature' around where you are. Always something up her sleeve. 'Here, I'll let you look.' Often without another soul for miles. Spectacular. That's not a fluke, or luck though. Its a choice to experience that fully.

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 11:05am

Concerned by a wave that goes unridden but no concern at all about the fuel wasted to drive the ski . Waves have been breaking in a big ocean for a long time without someone surfing them , I think that should be honored .
When one of those giants rolls thru jaws unattended at least the paddle surfer can aspire to maybe catch one like it one day . Is there something wrong with that ?

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lostdoggy commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 12:06pm

caml wrote: Concerned by a wave that goes unridden but no concern at all about the fuel wasted to drive the ski . Waves have been breaking in a big ocean for a long time without someone surfing them , I think that should be honored .
When one of those giants rolls thru jaws unattended at least the paddle surfer can aspire to maybe catch one like it one day .

Well said, cam.
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sharkman commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 12:46pm

fuel wasted by ski's are you kidding ,what do you think the water patrols use ?

the other day the paddle guys could not get into the waves as they were too fast and bumpy, so when you cant paddle what's wrong with towing

to say what did Ross Clarke and Laird get at jaws when they were towing , it opened up the wave to be paddled , on Wednesday in Hawaii when the buoys were 21 .3 ft @ 19 secs , no-one made a wave in the afternoon , in fact healey ,walsh and dorian , and then Noah couldn't catch one.

what happens if there is a 25ft @ 20 secs , wouldn't you like to see some one try and surf Jaws?

x

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 12:55pm

sharkman wrote: fuel wasted by ski's are you kidding ,what do you think the water patrols use ?

the other day the paddle guys could not get into the waves as they were too fast and bumpy, so when you cant paddle what's wrong with towing

to say what did Ross Clarke and Laird get at jaws when they were towing , it opened up the wave to be paddled , on Wednesday in Hawaii when the buoys were 21 .3 ft @ 19 secs , no-one made a wave in the afternoon , in fact healey ,walsh and dorian , and then Noah couldn't catch one.

what happens if there is a 25ft @ 20 secs , wouldn't you like to see some one try and surf Jaws?

Reply ; yes it may well get too big to paddle & the realm for towing is 100% real , but thats not for me to try and call the shots for . If & when that happens they will tow surf it im sure . As for saying it got too big to paddle that arvo I think your wrong because crew were paddling it all day I think & there was waves ridden . Im sure if nobody could paddle it then they would tow they aren't that dumb

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sharkman commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 12:59pm

checkout the latest Jaws video and checkout the biggest sets and how windy it got . what do you mean by dumb? they paddled out in the afternoon when the swell peaked and no-one got a set wave.

I guess no-one was ready with tow bds as there were paddlers out.

x

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 1:12pm

sharkman wrote: checkout the latest Jaws video and checkout the biggest sets and how windy it got . what do you mean by dumb? they paddled out in the afternoon when the swell peaked and no-one got a set wave.

I guess no-one was ready with tow bds as there were paddlers out.

Reply ; shakman were you there ? I'm pretty sure your incorrect saying no one got a set wave & they couldn't take off . As I have said already that there was plenty of huge waves ridden I saw on instagram & I think that you may have watched the wipeout feature clip . From all the years towing jaws the best that they did has actually been equalled by the current paddle surfers but the difference is that paddle in is about a hundred times more difficult

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 1:16pm

Dumb , means that that arent going to miss tow size jaws . 2 years ago a swell came in so big that it was towed because they all knew it would be un paddleable. Hundreds of guys there trying to paddle surf it recently do you think many of them wished they had towed it instead ?

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sharkman commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 1:20pm

the swell peaked late in the afternoon , they tried to paddle and it was too big with the swells moving too fast , next time there would be a few that tow like Ian Walsh and SD and a couple more. have you watched the new jaws footage?

x

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 1:24pm

Using fuel to save someones life might be worth it , but driving around picking up the towsurfer at the end of the ride & taking them back out instead of them paddling like they do nowadays might be the difference between unnecessary & worthwhile fuel burnt. This isnt my point anyway im talking about the fact that waves that break without a surfer riding it isn't a waste or an opportunity missed

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sharkman commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 1:46pm

So you think that if a swell 20% bigger than the other day , you would rather watch empty waves than someone towing?

x

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 11:16am

Good day to check redrocks, beautiful area.

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 11:40am

Anyway the net, the web's fucked, too hard. For instance, I used this quote to make a point about the spectator syndrome, legends of the grandstand. Under the big top.

'It's true very few of us want to put ourselves in that line up but that doesn't oblige us to suspend our powers of observation.'

But the guy who made that quoted comment is probably the most all round and long term experienced surfer on here. Or one of them.

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 11:42am

Even Joel Fitz is a kook on the web. So the swillnutters say...

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 11:43am

And the vid's still up, when its down... so the swillnutters say...

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 1:26pm

What is this new footage called please ? I will watch it if u tell me thanks

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uplift commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 2:32pm

The 'perfect' footage of a wrong direction swell, shit sand, and funny wind at a secret spot on the secret eastern seaboard was banned. But, redrocks isn't far away from you, this is the sort of day for a look. Its not perfect though, but can be pretty good, a zillion times better than slusheries and lots. Well, if it was on the 'secret' eastern seaboard, it would be droning to the max... mmmaaaaayyyyteee!!!???

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 3:08pm

Edit . Its the new jaws carnage clip brand new on swellnet . Have watched & commented

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blindboy commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 2:09pm

I'll throw a few things in here. Caml, much respect for those who paddle in but you can't claim it as "man against nature" when the man has a fleet of jet skis ready to rush to his assistance. Don't get me wrong I am very happy they are there as I don't want anyone to drown but the technology is there, our discussion is only how it might best be used. You want to restrict it to a rescue role, I think it should be used more frequently to get surfers into waves they wouldn't otherwise manage or to get them in so that they can make the wave rather than fall out of the sky or get mown down by the first section. It's worth thinking about how many people would have been out there without the jet skis. You are in a much better position to judge that than me but I will guess a lot less.

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 2:50pm

Saying how many would be out there if there wasnt ski rescue is pointless BB . I could say something as pointless like how many would be out there towing in if there werent skis to save them ? See its all invalid points as far as I can see in that regard. Please come up with some smarter discussion points here to amuse me

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blindboy commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 4:03pm

Sorry to disappoint you caml. Surely you are getting some fun blowing me out of the water!

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 5:08pm

No worries BB its easy to debate well when all the things stack in your favor so it was one of my better moments . I didn't mean just you either I meant sharkmn or anyone else to try come up with some good arguments . Cheers for the discussion , at the end when I read what marcio wrote I did learn something & im sure there's more to find out yet

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 2:39pm

Did u know that aaron gold didnt use his floaty vest or get rescued after his wave ? There are huge boulders along the whole front of the jaws wave so its a good plan to get the surfer outta there no argument . Sharkman if it is 20% bigger I guess they might tow instead but that is for them to decide really .nothing we say is going to change what they do & spectators ideas aren't going to be the defining factor . You will have to wait for that situation& see . I guess they probably will tow in , I don't disagree with that . Both swells recently the surfers raised the bar did u see tom lowes backhand barrell ? As we all know not much bar raising took place from lairds early surfing to the last days of towing . If you can show me otherwise please do

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goofyfoot commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 2:58pm

Tom Lowes barrel was mental. He wanted to be in there so bad, it was nuts

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caml commented Saturday, 30 Jan 2016 at 3:36pm

Just to give you pro tow debators some ammo I just read on marcio friere instagram that he said " it was a town day for sure " yes he said town but I think it means tow . And the picture is of him on one of the biggest left ever .so it does give an idea of how gnarly it was and back to the extra big period factor which makes the waves move so much faster thus the extreme carnage . And I can admit that it was certainly a size that is at the top end limits of paddling .a crossover type size , but they have to find this out for themselves via experience . Its just evolution & its not new , its been going on since tow began where paddlers were out in the same waves as tow ins but this time there wasnt skis ! So they were given the chance & it was clear to see that waves werent caught . But for those that did catch & make waves good for them im sure they all felt more fear than what towsurfers would have felt . One time when the tables were turned cos theres plenty of days gone by that towing ruled the day and there was paddle able waves amongst the mix

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sharkman commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 6:51am

I wonder with the towin , if they would try and back door the peak at jaws , as it looks like they could.

We are just talking , and philosophizing about tow vs paddle , as spectators its nice to be in the armchair for the entertainment.....

x

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 8:32am

G.mac got one of the best tubes at jaws towing years back . U can probably u tube view it & see

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sharkman commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 9:31am

yeah saw that one, also Ross Clarke got an enormous one then tried to backdoor the end section and went over the falls and hit the bottom bloody spectacular , and I guess from a spectator point of view , would love to how big a barrel could be surfed?

x

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 10:06am

Maybe try a xbox game or watever if you arent satified with the current standards . Teahupoo is pretty big isnt it ? The right ? You got the tow ins there to satify your query

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 10:11am

Oh sorry u are thinking about jaws when it gets so big theres no paddleing ?

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 10:20am

This has gone back to where I was yesterday sharkmn ; as far as I know they towed jaws for 15 plus years so u should have an idea how big a barrell can be ridden . Unless some advancement has taken place that im unaware of ? Nazare ?

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sharkman commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 12:46pm

just read wassels comments caml , and all I am saying is that there is a next level that was seen last Thursday , that all the paddle guys are saying Tow. I am just posing the question that if it gets too big to paddle how about tow? these guys are seriously challenging everything we thought possible and lifted the bar so high , how insane is it that this winter has provided us mere mortals with unimaginable paddle wave vision and also a level of waves that seem to have gone even past what we thought possible in the last few weeks. next?

x

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 12:56pm

Good discussion anyway sharkman peace !

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Rabbits68 commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 1:10pm

Re Jaws & these recent huge swells, what would the possibilities be of having a controlled "tow only" session for say 2-3 hours then back to paddle only session. It appears some of these chargers do both disciplines anyway. Why not attempt to advance both tow & paddle during these huge swell events at Jaws? Watching these paddle sessions has been amazing but I would also love to see the tow crew take on these waves at a more aggressive level, as Sharkman suggested, perhaps attempt to fully backdoor the peak or at least get deeper in the pit.

Pristine

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 4:19pm

Hell yeah call up the boys and suggest it rabbit , theyre probably discussing it already tho . If anyone hadn't noticed already that in Hawaii there's a level of order and respect where towing isn't allowed to mix with paddling that is different in other countries and oz . The utmost respect goes to paddle & no cowboys seem to break the rules I guess . Anyone know about this ?

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caml commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 4:32pm

Likely scenario was that no one was sure what was going to happen with that swell & heaps of ppl flew in to paddle that swell . They had to work it out by experience on the day so maybe a few ideas are being talked about afterwards . Thing is that plenty of paddlers were keen to have a try , & as sharkmn said no one was quite ready but I dunno . But this talk of trying to backdoor the peak ? Well didn't they have that chance years ago anyway ? Just like towing became a craze now its paddle craze so the mind was set for that swell before they found out the hard way but tom lowes barrel was the best thing ever for goofys so the bar was raised anyway for some , im sure lots of them got the gnarliest waves of the lives paddling and that's what they're trying to do currently

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Rabbits68 commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 6:42pm

"But this talk of trying to backdoor the peak ? Well didn't they have that chance years ago anyway ?"

Caml, are you then suggesting that that its for tow & any advancements? Why not say the same for paddle? They weren't paddling Jaws years ago like they are nowadays. Imagine if they had of given up back then. The whole concept/advantage of tow (as I understand it) is the surfer enters the wave at extreme speed, already standing, allowing them an entry point & the ability to set a line that simple isn't possible with paddle (initially). I just reckon it would pretty awesome to see them charge Jaws from as far behind that peak as is "possible". Only one way to find out.......

My views are merely that of a "spectator" which I fully acknowledge. Happy to be told I'm dreamin :)

Pristine

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caml commented Monday, 1 Feb 2016 at 2:30am

Rabs no im not saying "thats it" for tow-in advancement . The most advancement in tow-ing is at nazare currently , by far . I will say that paddle has advanced so fast during the last 3 years that its possibly the greatest advancement since the late 60s when board length changed dramatically or the tow in phenomenon that absolutely changed everything in big wave surfing I mean its massive , much greater than some new air or flip for kids . If you care to research the topic u will find this if you aren't already aware . When I said whats this talk about backdooring the peak yada yada , was that was endeavored for 15 yrs plus , already thru the 90s & early 2000s by laird etc & any & every towsurfer at jaws during countless swells every single winter . If they were to have towed last week I doubt any advancement would have occured from the times when it was at its peak stage years ago & in fact they may have been worse due to the fact that they wouldn't have been practicing much lately & out of form with the leap from 10"6 - 6"0 change . As well whos going to announce to all these paddling guys that sebastian studner the world champion towsurfer & laird & rcj are going to tow today & all youse cant paddle ? It probably wasn't until afterwards that these guys paddle surfed & encountered how heavy it was that some admitted it may have been a good day to tow . Theres plenty of other xxxl big waves & outer reefs for the skis to go anyway & I reckon they did . What about kaena pt ? Kings reef ? Outer logs cabs ? Theres certain designated areas for skis & certain for paddling & the Hawaiians are the kings and nothing that anyone on here sn says is credible opinion anyway

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Rabbits68 commented Monday, 1 Feb 2016 at 10:05am

Thanks for your insights. Much appreciated. It will fascinating to see where both tow & paddle go from here.

Pristine

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ird commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 6:21pm

From a spectator perspective, I'm with BB on this - For pushing the boundaries in terms of high performance on big waves and of course size , Towing in is where its at .

Like everyone else, I'm in awe of what the paddle in surfers are doing now, but it does seem quite limited performance wise in many ways. Jaws is more interesting than many spots due to having some length of ride and possible barrels, but many sessions from Mavericks and other places are just a drop and barely even a bottom turn if you're lucky.

I can understand that there's maybe more interest for some people in terms of suspense (will they make the drop) and carnage potential with paddling. But as others have said, towing in could make much more of many of these waves.

I'm not for a moment trying to say piss the paddling off here, just that as Caml says, its the current craze and I think the pendulum has swung a bit far in that direction. Would be good to see a few tow sessions with some of the best doing crazier lines, deeper barrells and turns on the big stuff.

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penmister commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 6:47pm

Hawaiians would of paddled jaws before the camera was invented.its in there blood...imo

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SurferFuk commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 6:59pm

Caml, you're living in the past champ surfing 12 ft speedies?

CAML;) Hump man from the sea.

Move on buddy, it's not just all about you and your big wave paddling champ.

I know who you are and you are great at what you do for sure;)

But as BB is trying to say here is that there is gonna a be some progression forward..

Live it or lump big hump.........

Surfers have their mind buried in the sand;)

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penmister commented Sunday, 31 Jan 2016 at 7:21pm

Sounds like wallpaper towing it will be back in 10 years...

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