What did Joni Mitchell sing about in Yellow Taxi?

They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot
With a pink hotel, a boutique
And a swinging hot spot

Don't it always seem to go
That you don't know what you've got
Till it's gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot

They took all the trees
Put 'em in a tree museum
And they charged the people
A dollar and a half just to see 'em

Yes, dat's surfin for ya ......... the ever invention on how to make a buck.

"Terry Hardy and the Kelly Slater Wave Company will have what keen viewers of pro surfing have always wanted: a perfectly controlled environment."

And then we'll miss what we always had: a wild and unpredictable environment.

Bring it on...
It would be a good idea to have a full 1/2hr - 1hr wrap of the days play at the end/start of each day too... The morning show that they run/ran at the Quicky pro on the GC was a great idea. 1/2hr of good banter, interviews highlights etc... made for good viewing. Similar to what they do at the beginning of each day's play for test cricket.
Peace.
RR

Where does this leave Greg webber and his wavepool?

Stu, can't argue with those dots. Unlike some other dots we've been asked to join in recent years.

The only thing I can and do take exception to is your reference to "... the fat and slow ones such as Bells".

Jeez! As anyone who's surfed Winki at 6' or more on any crisp May morning will tell yer, what a load of old cobblers.

Sounds like an event worth missing out on. One of the most appealing aspects of surf contests is that no one wave is the same as the last. Remove that component and all we are left with is a wet skateboarding event. Same waves same boards same robot surfers. It all stinks of greed!!!

"one of the main grievances of the current tour: a lack of quality waves"
lol, what happened when they had perfect 12-15 foot surf at Tavarua last year?
They cancelled the comp...

I'd be keen to watch an event in a wave pool after watching the last event in France. It was awesome to see those 9's and 10's, but in between it was pretty tedious at times. You only have to look at the scores in a few of those heats to see how inconsistent the good waves were, such as the Taj/Kolohe heat (Taj: 9.57 & 2.5, Kolohe: 6.67 & 5.6).

It would be great to watch a comp where surfers are all riding waves that are of equal size and shape, though it would have to come down to aerials and turns scoring wise, rather than watching mechanical barrel riding over and over again. Get rid of the 30 min heats and make it best of 5 to 10 waves or something similar. Just do it once a year on top of the current events, or as an expression session with no points towards ratings.

No more interferences, restarts, broadcast issues, etc etc.... and maybe even some decent commentating.

@stu

Then you posted those words and, voila, the article caught a bug and crashed for a while.

Karma is a bitch. Don't dis the Pop.

Terry Hardy bankrolln half the new pt lincioln airport to the tune of 10 million.....guess where the wild things are goin?

Bring it on I say , can't wait !!!
These wave pools will take the heat off the real waves for a couple of years and then I can finish off MY stint with a little less crowd !!

YES , it's all about me !!

...and Stu , you are right , Bells and Winki are probably the most overrated waves in OZ , Fat and Cold and heaps of Sharks

Hmmm. 6-8 foot Winki low tide, south swell, early autumn (19º water temp). Fat, cold, overrated. Yeah sure.

I can understand wave pools for anything above the lip and on the face, The airs will be out of control, the carves and whatever else will be pin point accurate. What I want to know is how the hell do you replicate the intensity of a shifting take off and the experience and ability to drop into a beast of a ten foot keg? Or are we simply going to watch guys in flawless barrels for 5 seconds or ten seconds or 50 seconds, it will look stupid them standing there in this perfect position. If we hold comps in wave pools we loose the best part of surfing, getting good and properly shacked.

Multiple formats including wave pools and beach breaks and point breaks and big wave, the winner of the world tour being the guy that performed best overall in everything from Mavericks (danger) to the wave pool (performance) to France (both). An entire tour in chlorine would take away the undeniably awesome natural aspect of surfing, but would be nice to see surfers put together high performance routines.

2050 and Xu Wing Fat of the Beijing surfing performance academy puts together an insurmountable team to win all divisions. While the world watches the Alphas and Betas perform in the King Kelly Slater wave dome, us savages are left to roam the badlands surfing places like Snapper and fat mushy bells with only 800 disease ridden lunatics out.

A brave new world indeed.

Wave pool surfing is not surfing. How epic has the tour been this year! waves i'd give my left nut to surf alone, at every event. And they want to put contest in a chlorine pool? crap.

Stu Nett - I reckon you are full of negativity and like your old collegue Sheep like nothing more than to stick knife into ASP.

Ever thought this new group are picking up a tour that has actually been very successful to get where it is today and has probably outgrown it's industry (thankfully) and can carry on and sprout greater opportunities?

Does snow skiing and snowboarding, two good synergies to surfing , have such a product.

And all these good waves the tour misses out on -- my recollection was very good surf at Bells, Fiji, Tahiti, Trestles and France already this year

And good old fat slow Bells - which happens to include Winky Pop as a primary venue and reguarly goes to some of the best best breaks in Australia at Johanna and can and has gone to Woolamai. A core non mainstream surf journo like yourself Stu would have had many epic sesions on these beachbreaks hey?

The Bells event was super active in being one of the first events to introduce mobility to events to score great waves and utilize waiting periods within a good time period for the event.

I want to see you out at Bells on one of those typically great sessions you've had.

But I guess it's "cool" and show's surf cred to get negative on Bells and ASP.

Ohh and Stu - this is what the punters want isn't it -

Will they take advantage of modern forecasting and have flexible schedules, hitting exotic locales with 72 hours notice?

We punters want this - I want to organize my annual vacation and go to G/Land or J/Bay for 7 days and while I'm there and an epic swell appears on the radar I want the tour to turn up and run -- That works Stu, for the punters.

@ando

Are you the ying to Floyd's yang?

Irony. It exists. Stu uses it often. Usually to great effect.

Peace, brother.

I have no idea whaaat you are talking about, but - Stunett's comments, to me are full of shit and he can answer to them.
I've never seen such a ridiculous statement as - Will they take advantage of modern forecasting and have flexible schedules, hitting exotic locales with 72 hours notice?
So -- Me and my mates are in Fiji for a week, we've saved all year and we will surf great waves, look, the charts are excellent but no, the tour is coming in on 72 hours notice and they will surf it instead, that's ok, we're punters and we get the privelage to watch it live!
what sort of surf journalist imbeccile comes up with that sort of suggestion?
and as far as Bells/Winky/Johanna goes during autumn, knife it all you like, i don't care - but don't use irony as an excuse.

One day...

"Yesterday they had the A/C turned off and the heat up so high it felt like Karamajat at lunchtime --- but HEY! They dialed it to 8' and turned the fans directly into the approaching pocket (remember the fan-bank circulates around the pool with the wave) at more than15mph, - - and I'm tellin' ya bruzzzers, it was s-s-s-SMOKIN" !!! "

So, I'll write it as an idea, but then, back peddle fast and blame it on Twitter as the originator of the idea....not my idea...it's Twitters and by the way, after the fact I'll also add I don't think it's a great idea!

Give me a break - you wrote it outright - take responsability for it!

I suggest you go surf a great Beachbreak later this week --- Johanna could be an outstanding choice!

Thanks Stu!!! I wish the photos had been better quality but, ...
some comments about 'more on Debbie' already (and Debbie is a book in itself) !!!
I don't think I should respond about the details, but she was one of the nicest/happiest persons on Earth I have ever met!!!

I forgot...

The pool will offer up a spectacular way to push the limits. I see the double-edged knife as a finely honed razor. What's next?

With regards to the potential quality of a wave pool - how about we wait and observe said wave pool in action (once it's up and running) before making a judgement? Greg Webber's made some interesting points about his wave pool in one of the other articles, which has made me reassess what kind of surfing we might see in them. Surely it can't be any worse than the waves they scored for the Australian Open Of Surfing this year.

If the ASP have sold Zosea the media rights, how will they be able to have any influence over the location of the events? That's like saying Channel 7 has an influence over the location of the AFL matches.

or, as per stunett assessment, fat and slow Bells - and thermalBen --- WTF use the AOS as an event of camparison --- that was a WQS event...no waiting period...an event designed for crowds -- has nothing to do with WCT surfing, which, positively, has created a great tour of events that go to regions, legitimately and with more that 72 hours notice, in prime times and generally puts on a great show and ultimately decides great world champs...as recognized by Rottmouth who now idolizes Andy Irons,
OK, despite best intentions, it occassionally gets skunked, but not all that often - but AOS comes up occassionally and it's wrong to bring it up when refering to the very elite end of the tour - AOS has crowd objectives and entertainment to crowds and in it's space, even this year, it did a good job

Pensky, they'll simply do whatever Billabong, or Rip Curl, or Quiksilver did. Approach the local governments and/or councils and negotiate.

Ando, there are plenty of examples where WCT events have had terrible waves - I don't know why you're acting so surprised.

because you used the AOS of surfing as the example...why,,,,it's not a wct event, never designed to be...why use it?

Because it was the first event I thought of. Does it matter?

thanks Ben - i think that is quite different to simply awarding media rights. What you are saying is that they will also hold the event licences which include the media rights. Is that really what they are proposing?

Nah, it doesn't matter, let's compare apples with oranges - all I'm pissed about is the author of this topic writing what I reckon is bullshit, then recommending that I read more Twitter of all things - then backpeddalling by using Twitter as an excuse to justify his own comments

Why are you getting angry Ando? I merely said that we should wait to form an opinion about the quality of wave pools until we've actually seen (and surfed) one. At the moment it's all conjecture.

As for getting angry at the author (Stu), you've really taken his article the wrong way. Stu is hypothesising about what MIGHT happen with the ASP's future direction, now that we know Terry Hardy is leading the force.

And that's because we know very little else - apart from the fact that Terry's involved in the Kelly Slater Wave Pool. So, Stu's mentioned the potential for wave pools to be on the ASP's agenda - and to give it some context - he's lightheartedly exaggerated some of the less attractive characteristics of Bells Beach and Rio.

As for the beef you had with this line: "Will they take advantage of modern forecasting and have flexible schedules, hitting exotic locales with 72 hours notice?" - yes, it has been discussed ad nauseam on a number of other websites (including Swellnet, and also Twitter) over the last couple of years. If this is news to you, then so be it.

back peddle fast and come in back up your writer - lighthearted comments on Bells event - sure....make a comment like -

FWIW I don't think it is a great, or even a viable, idea mainly for the reason you mention but also the difficulty of setting up a webcast unit in 72 hours.

WTF is surf journalism coming to with the author turning to Twitter as the originator of an idea -- then discrediting it but even more absurdly throwing in the comment - difficulty of setting up the webcast!???

Any idiot can see you can't bring in a wad of professional surfers to some location and run an event with 72 hours notice --- why even bring up --- and because we can't get the webcast going.

Backpeddle? Hahahaha! Are you serious?

As for your comment "Any idiot can see you can't bring in a wad of professional surfers to some location and run an event with 72 hours notice".

Well, I suggest you check out the Big Wave World Tour. In particular this article:

"The second stop on the Big Wave World Tour, the Billabong Pico Alto 2012, Presented by Sony Xperia Smartphone, has been given the green light. On Tuesday, 14th of August, the contest will be held 43 kilometers south of Lima, Peru at Punta Hermosa."

http://www.swellnet.com.au/news/3137-red-alert-billabong-pico-alto-2012

ok...Firstly backpeddle ----

these were only lightheated comments about Bells

and

Twitter originated this idea and I don't agree with the idea-

Second -- Big wave Tour -- are you seriously comparing that to what a WCT event would do --

The big wave tour goes to a very few locations and when they go there might be way less than 0.01% of the surfing population that even want to know about surfing such a wave and those that do, most likely are in the event....--- and let's see how long that stradegy works anyway -- try it at some close locations here and see what happens

You surely know that what is idiotically being suggested (by Stunett) about 72 hours notice with ASP WCT events has to do with outstanding wave locations like G/land/Fiji/J'Bay....waves where surfers in big numbers go to and plan ahead and set holidays around --- so far removed from gigantic wave locations

*facepalm*

Sorry Ando, I give up. I can't argue at your level - you're an expert.

Can someone tell me what *facepalm* means

sorry if thats ignorance on my part

I once watched an episode of the Twilight Zone where a guy stopped understanding the english language as we know it. It started when he was leaving for work one day and his wife said, "Have you got you dinosaur with you?"

"Have I got my what?" he replied, puzzled.

"Your dinosaur, so you have something to eat at dinosaurtime."

And he picked up his lunch off the table. Gradually more and more words became nonsensical in the meanings he knew them and it became so that he couldn't function anymore. He eventually had to learn to talk all over again using the new words.

Since Ando came aboard this thread I'm feeling like the Twilight Zone man except it's the logic being applied that makes no sense. What on earth is happening here? Am i reading this right? Is it me that's gone mad or the world around me? HAVE I GOT MY DINOSAUR WTH ME??

OK - Well I don't get what nobody doesn't understand about Stunett rubbishing Bells event and also bringing up an absurd notion about WCT events turning up to exotic great wave locations on 72 hours notice -

They are pretty simple concepts - which I thoroughly disagree with and which on both fronts seem to be have retracted to some degree firstly by the author - highlighting Twitter as the source along with also highlighting after the fact he did not adhere to the concept --- and then by his colleague - claiming his reference to Bells fat and slow was exagerated and lighthearted

and if that's not backpeddling on what was originally stated, i don't know what is.

Maybe I'm the idiot -- where Rotty when I need him?

With no due respect (because you haven't shown any to anyone else)...your contributions here are absurd and show little grasp of writing tools such as irony and pathos and yet you still call Stunet the imbecile.

Ando, you are the idiot.

I'll agree I've shown no respect and been an idiot to even get involved but thats what happens when you're locked in the office with zero work to do for whatever reasons.

So I ask myself why have I been disrespectful and I answer, because Stunett rubbished an event that has done a lot for the sport over a lot of years and has added quality in a lot of ways - but that was just light hearted exaggeration by Stunett wasn't it?

I see you have quite a soft spot for Bells/Winki Ando.

Take a deep breath and enjoy these images from a magic weekend in August I got to experience first hand.

http://www.swellnet.com.au/galleries/3099-flying-on-a-forecast

And for the record it wasn't fat and slow ;)

@ando - Was the comment of Bells being a 'fat' wave what got to you?

Never been, but like a blind dog, Bells tubes on certain days I would imagine, if only in small sections, but a tube is a tube! Right Wilbur? "Yep"

"- but that was just light hearted exaggeration by Stunett wasn't it?"

Yes that's how I read it. Though it's worth noting that many of the pro surfers hate going to Bells and that it's mainly only Australian followers that care about it. Sentiments that point to the 'grievances' Stunet was highlighting.

@Patty

Laughed so hard I think I just broke a rib

So Boxright, I guess that backs up why most of the surfers who win the bell regard it as one of surfings most prestigious trophies - is that correct? and that includes overseas surfers. who are all these surfers who hate it?
And z-man, when you refer to Bells the event, is it just at Bells Beach, or does it utilize Winky Pop and some serious quality beachbreaks ?
I'm done!

And Lorne Point?

This obsession with the best surfers in the competing in best waves is such a joke. Why do we care so much if 50 odd guys in the world score good waves or not?

The fact is that they go to some shit hot locations at the moment and pretty regularly score good waves don't they? Why do we want to see 50 guys surf perfection everywhere they go while we surf shit at home.

Surely not everyone reading this thinks that they one day will get anywhere near the tour.
Are people really looking at these wavepools as the next thing to progress surfing? Where are we progressing to? The olympics, more elite surfing academies, more clones.

These wave pools might be able to be dialled up to produce good surf but who seriously thinks this is how they will pay the bills? They will pay the bills by teaching people who would normally have no access to waves how to surf and then these people will work out they can drive to the beach and surf for free.

This will just add up to more people in the surf.

Real progression would be be to start seriously working on improving existing surf breaks, building reefs etc that once built people can surf for FREE.

Because isn't freedom what we enjoy about our lifestyle? The fact that good surf is natural phenomenum. How many Greenoughs, Mactavish,Dora's Occys,Buttons,Archibalds,Peterson's are coming out of wavepools.

As for the arguement that it is tampering with the environment well I think these wavedomes will do that and more.
On the otherhand everyone knows that structures in water equals habitat for marine life.
So the way i see it improving breaks and building reefs, groynes etc will provide playgounds that will produce real progression in surfing and allow greater freedom for everyone while sticking waves in a pool is a way to mass produce surfers to and collect lots of money while they do it.
Oh and one last thing on our wonderful surfing industry when was the last time you heard about these companies giving away trips for average surfers and their mates all expenses paid to places like the Ments yet they sell us the dream with their movies and paid "soul" surfers.
This obsession with pro sufing and some of us hoping that "they" create an improved "dream tour" for 50 guys is the biggest con job i can think of.

I want to SURF better waves not WATCH a bunch of super ego surf better waves.

Will the real surfers please stand up?

" who are all these surfers who hate it?"

The surfers then known as the top 44 hate it. ASL did a survey last year or the year before. Pretty overwhelming majority didn't like Bells as a tour venue.

Or, if you're a booger, lay down.

Or a goat boater, sit down.

Or a kneelo....

Yep, got the picture

ask Joel and Mick what they think of Bells ...were they not part of the top 44. What's Occy think of Bells? Do you think many of the top 44 like Teahupoo?

"44 surfers"

"Overwhelming majority"

"Mick and Joel - 2 surfers"

"DINOSAURTIME!!!"

good work patty - exceptional maths - do you really think only joel and mick like bells...ask more..jordy smith, taylor knox, taj, DeSouza...more recently slater - show this research and names...does every wave need to be an exceptional Fiji type wave - they'll reduce the tour to 6 events and not round it out with some damn good venues that add to the mix - i tire of the bells event bashers and that now begins with stunett

@farrah - do both

I'm with u ando, sick of the Bells bashers! Who cares if half of them don't like it- how many of us don't like aspects of our jobs?

Bells brings a thing called style into sharp focus, something the recent French beachbreaks however perfect can easily mask. I think a true world tour needs the diversity of different types of breaks, in both warm and cold water to really prove the best overall surfer in any one year.

Go Parko!

There's a few of us proud Victorians who, given the Easter swell window, wouldn't mind it becoming the Bells Christmas Classic, or the Bells Melbourne Cup Day Long Weekend, or the Jan Juc January Big Bash.

But Yorky, you're right, of course. No one draws better arcs on those big faces than Parko.

PS. Cept mebbe Robbo.

Got a 10 year old copy of Surfer magazine in the dunny that has a feature on Bells. Looked at it hundreds of times. Who the hell doesn't mind surf those big open-faced walls?

Agreed, Parko surfing good size Bells. Poetry in motion.

I have a few problems with this wave park concept ..

Farrah: Surfing trumps watching surfing every single time.

But cracking the scab on few cold ones at the close of play and watching Dane and Old Baldy go head to head in French barrels doesn't hurt either.

Agree 100% with you on the wavepool thing though. There's been 30 years of hot air and hype and not a single decent wave created so far.

In America every state requires a license plate on your car. Each state puts their state slogan on the plate. I'm not from the state of Missouri, but the slogan on their license plate reads; 'Show Me'

Wave pool will be spectacular IF it had a wave like low-tide Rincon. I got a bridge for you in SF(it's orange) and you can be the proud owner and charge fees for those who must use.

I'd pay some BIG bucks at a perfectly groomed, offshore, take your turn wave park. But I need wheelchair assist or I'll sue!!!

Guess they gotta build it in Indo!?!?!

It is beyond me why there isn't a tour event in Indo. During peak season great waves are virtually guaranteed somewhere within the waiting period generally allocated to each event.

Oh the world of big business, enterprise and innovation. Don't you love
free market forces and competition.
Where does that leave Greg Webber?
Building a portion of one on a property outback I imagine?
Now if I had a few lazy million and was inspired to to part of wave pool pioneering,
who would i be chasing??
Now in any the race it is still a great honour to be be beat by the many multiple worlds best!
I imagine the news releases and hype surrounding these pools will continue. They seem to be a campaign of seeking credibility ratings; that is meant for one reason -to be a money magnets. At least they both don't seem to be con men and shisters and might be worth taking a risk on. I wonder what the bookies are saying?

My bet is Greg will build it First ....
And that will be fine with Kelly , he's been Too busy shoring up the
" end game " , marketing and what not incase Greg's model works .
And with the Top 44 in his wing , and perhaps being involved in the first WCT event on his version . Then to the winner the spoils ???

Greg if it does work , keep the pivotal details/method under wraps ....
A la " winged keel " from America'Cup victory in the 80's .

Top 44? Top 34...(Well 32 and a couple of wilds or trials.)

The comments are always far more entertaining than the article - no offence aye stunnet as I am sure they are written with the intention to provoke thought and comment.

Thermal Ben - *Facepalm* - provided the hilarious vision of your complete exasperation.

"All images shown on this website are from the 2010 prototype. Stay tuned to see shoulder high waves this summer" is from the wavegarden web site -oops that was summer 2010 - damm maybe they meant summer 2013? or 2014 ? or 2015? Its a slippery slide down a one way slope when the hype outpaces the possible? There are very serious lessons to be learnt from that and the artificial surfing reef "doctors" were the best teachers.

Typical capitalists.... offer up something for sale worth more than what they charge.

Blessed are the wave makers. For they shall inherit the crumbs.

Good on 'em all.

When you make the wave so predictable you change the whole nature of the activity. For me an event in a wave pool would be about as interesting as a gymnastics competition. In other words as boring as core samples from the anus of an air borne mammal.

blindboy, how can anyone get neggie over perfect surf?

This invention will change the world. And build a whole new surfer. Ones with noodle skinny arms. And beefed upped cankles. It's all part of the evolution of surfing.

The roller there is no guarantee that it will be perfect. There doesn't seem to be any data on the critical factor of wave speed coming out so I am still skeptical about what exactly these waves will be like. Also I don't think people have realised what a profound change this is in the skills. As I said before once the wave becomes that predictable what you have is a huge emphasis on closed repetitive skills that can practiced over and over very much like gymnastics. Doesn't appeal to me but I'm not going to be out there demonstrating against it. If people want to turn surfing into a staid safe boring form of sportotainment that's their privilege.....and business opportunity.

There is much in surfing I have almost always totally ignored. Fashion, media, competitions and even the over dominance of 3 fin, white, pre-shaped surfboards. Its not that I am at all against these things; they are just not important to me and my surfing experience.

One of the things I have increasingly noticed in surfing is its increasing sameness.

For something as beautiful as surfing that is so hard to define in words it is odd, but, in many ways I think surfing's songline is slowly being lost.

I personally find many surfing DVDs boring: wave after wave over the same reef with different surfers doing the same moves in the same way. In the same way I find contest surfing boring and predictable. There is no denying that pro surfers are good technicians but there is a sameness to it all that leaves me yearning for something different and fresh.

So wave pools will be built, they will be highly successful at least for a few years and they will add to the sameness.

Can't wait to see a controlled comp!?!?

How boring, predictable, and sameness will it be when these mod con inventors remove paddling, as well as the 7/8 of the time sitting, waiting, from the pro comps?

Embrace the horror. of all mod cons.

Hmmm babies and bathwater suggest anything to you the roller?