That’s weird, that’s queer, that’s crazy, that deserves a long hard look.

Roadkill wrote:

burleigh wrote:

AndyM wrote:

"According to the MHRA's Yellow Card reporting summary, even in the highest-risk age group (18-29), there were just 29 reports of suspected myocarditis or pericarditis for every million second doses of the Pfizer vaccine given in the UK up until 23 November 2022. The risk is even lower following a monovalent Pfizer booster, with just 17 reports per million people in this age group. In other age groups the risk is even lower."

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/co...

If we've learnt anything over the past few years is that we 100% can not trust doctors / government reporting for anything Covid related.

Surely you agree on that?

Also what did you think about the project veritas video posted above?

unless it suits your covid bias..then the DRs and expertise are 100% right.

lol they follow the money roaddill, pull the wool from your eyes Mr sheep.

Supafreak wrote:

@Andy M , when you asked me “ You're not trusting those scientists are you Supa? “ I wasn’t sure which scientists you were referring to . Are you trusting the scientists from Merck who developed their drug and gave us their studies claiming a 50% reduction in hospitalisation or do you trust the scientists from Oxford university ? The University of Oxford’s PANORAMIC trial enrolled 25,783 people with COVID-19, half of whom got molnupiravir. After 28 days, 103 people given molnupiravir had died, compared with 96 in the second group.……… A spokesman for the drug’s sponsor Merck said PANORAMIC had focused on a low-risk group, and pointed to other studies showing the treatment was effective. https://www.smh.com.au/national/not-having-a-big-impact-covid-drug-fails...

“ when you asked me “ You're not trusting those scientists are you Supa? “ I wasn’t sure which scientists you were referring to.”
That was exactly my point.

For a variety of reasons we seem to have reached a point in society where different tribes don’t even have a starting point for a reasoned discussion anymore.
Pretty concerning for a democracy and very fertile ground for bullshit artists.

I'm liking how you changed everyones names Triar[d]Fuck.

Well to be fair a lot of the bullshit came from fauci and the cdc , some of their statements about the vaccine being a dead end for covid was a straight out lie . https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/553773-fauci-vaccinated-p...

It's been around a lot longer and goes a lot deeper than Covid, Supa.

AndyM wrote:

It's been around a lot longer and goes a lot deeper than Covid, Supa.

Please tell me more , sounds like a good conspiracy.

Start by looking up postmodernism and also nihilism, then follow that up by searching for some papers on libertarianism.
Then search for how social media platforms polarise opinions and beliefs.
Then factor in globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism, and how this affects things.

AndyM wrote:

Start by looking up postmodernism and also nihilism, then follow that up by searching for some papers on libertarianism.
Then search for how social media platforms polarise opinions and beliefs.
Then factor in globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism, and how this affects things.

How about you cut to the chase

Christ almighty do I have to spoonfeed you everything?? :)

AndyM wrote:

Christ almighty do I have to spoonfeed you everything?? :)

Yes please, I appreciate what you have to say and sometimes I need it spelt out for me . I understand it’s just going to be your opinion but that’s what I’m wanting to hear ( read )and I’m sure others would too .

No it’s not “just my opinion “ :
And funnily enough you’ve just touched on our first term, post modernism.

AndyM wrote:

No it’s not “just my opinion “ :
And funnily enough you’ve just touched on our first term, post modernism.

Ok , well whoever’s opinion , fact , whatever it is , are you able to post it ? Sorry , didn’t mean to offend you with writing “ I understand it’s just your opinion “

I’m open to being educated Andy M if you’re open to teaching.

I’m working all weekend so I can’t really get straight to it but suffice to say it’s an area of real interest to me.

AndyM wrote:

I’m working all weekend so I can’t really get straight to it but suffice to say it’s an area of real interest to me.

I would sincerely appreciate reading what you have to say when you have the time. Hope you get time to squeeze a wave in , I surfed a peak to myself yesterday morning, only shoulder high but lots of fun .

udo wrote:

https://youtu.be/g-KdEgh4Ps8

Ya scraping that bottom of the barrel now. How do you keep finding these creeps.

Why doesn’t he do a video of the Pfizer directors hidden camera claims about mutations and womens periods.

Supafreak wrote:

AndyM wrote:

I’m working all weekend so I can’t really get straight to it but suffice to say it’s an area of real interest to me.

I would sincerely appreciate reading what you have to say when you have the time. Hope you get time to squeeze a wave in , I surfed a peak to myself yesterday morning, only shoulder high but lots of fun .

Sweet mate good to hear even getting some waves specially in this water warm as a bath.

Pfizer Director : Jordon Walker - People are now trying to verify whether he works at Pfizer. Let’s assume that he does work at Pfizer for now. His title is Director of R&D Operations and Scientific Planning.
Everyone should understand that this area is NOT a science area. He does not work in a lab. He pushes paper, makes powerpoints and other documents .

udo wrote:

Pfizer Director : Jordon Walker - People are now trying to verify whether he works at Pfizer. Let’s assume that he does work at Pfizer for now. His title is Director of R&D Operations and Scientific Planning.
Everyone should understand that this area is NOT a science area. He does not work in a lab. He pushes paper, makes powerpoints and other documents and talks to vendors.

He worked (now been fired) at Pfizer 100%. He's also apparently a urologist. i would say he knows what he is talking about.

So many comments like this :
From med school to Director at Pfizer in five years is proof the guy is fake.
You don't climb the corporate ladder that fast in a multinational pharmaceutical corporation worth billions.
So WHAT if he went to med school! So WHAT if he is an actual MD! That is not the issue! The issue is WAS HE A DIRECTOR AT PFIZER!

Project Veritas, you have been played. This guy is a nobody and a crisis actor. All there is is some links and archives of various resume sites which this liar guy probably set up himself to impress his boyfriends. The org charts that are floating around, too... I'm sure he did them as well.

I mean, really... that last video looked like something out of a Springer show. That didn't set off your Spidey sense? That didn't make you go, "Hmmm.... there is something about this guy which just seems off"?

This is becoming embarrassing at this point.

Can’t understand why Pfizer hasn’t released a press statement on who and what Jordon Walker was/is to them , surely that would clear the air .

udo wrote:

So many comments like this :
From med school to Director at Pfizer in five years is proof the guy is fake.
You don't climb the corporate ladder that fast in a multinational pharmaceutical corporation worth billions.
So WHAT if he went to med school! So WHAT if he is an actual MD! That is not the issue! The issue is WAS HE A DIRECTOR AT PFIZER!

Project Veritas, you have been played. This guy is a nobody and a crisis actor. All there is is some links and archives of various resume sites which this liar guy probably set up himself to impress his boyfriends. The org charts that are floating around, too... I'm sure he did them as well.

I mean, really... that last video looked like something out of a Springer show. That didn't set off your Spidey sense? That didn't make you go, "Hmmm.... there is something about this guy which just seems off"?

This is becoming embarrassing at this point.

YouTube deleted the video, silence from Pfizer about walker.

If he didn’t work for them they would have come out and said this straight away. Are your spider senses not working?

I will put my hand up as being gullible. I actually believed that if you got vaccinated the virus would become a dead end with me and that I couldn’t pass it onto my mother or anyone else if I happened to be dining in a cafe or elsewhere.

Roadkill wrote:

Very embarrassing…a real lack of question everything.

Gullible bunch.

Yes Toady. You didn’t pass the IQ test Mr cafe.

View this post on Instagram

Roadkill wrote:

Very embarrassing…a real lack of question everything.

Gullible bunch.

says the 3 x jabber for nothing and still got it, lmao
did your mother get covid from a cafe yet and did you have to kill them lol
fwit comment of the century goes to you

Enthusiastic recruits marching off to the front. Ageism is no barrier to this important work.

How is mobilization carried out in Ukraine? pic.twitter.com/50Ldl6a7aP

— Viktoriya Samarina (@viktoriyarus34) January 27, 2023

Well News Nation seems pretty mainstream and rates highly on media bias fact check for least biased and high credibility. Why is it so hard for anyone to confirm without doubt that Jordon Walker did or did not work at Pfizer and in the title claimed by PV ?

Roadkill wrote:

FriarTuck wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Very embarrassing…a real lack of question everything.

Gullible bunch.

says the 3 x jabber for nothing and still got it, lmao
did your mother get covid from a cafe yet and did you have to kill them lol
fwit comment of the century goes to you

Is that you BD? Or another burls signon.

I had wondered the same.

Supafreak wrote:

Well News Nation seems pretty mainstream and rates highly on media bias fact check for least biased and high credibility. Why is it so hard for anyone to confirm without doubt that Jordon Walker did or did not work at Pfizer and in the title claimed by PV ? https://youtu.be/X2VIcb0VeQg If he did work there I doubt he’s been fired , raked over the coals yes but firing him would only send him running to news companies bidding for his story . https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsnation/

I checked Snopes. Seems Pfizer does employ a man of that name. The rest of it, well they have form. So wouldn’t be surprised if it’s legit.

soggydog wrote:

Supafreak wrote:

Well News Nation seems pretty mainstream and rates highly on media bias fact check for least biased and high credibility. Why is it so hard for anyone to confirm without doubt that Jordon Walker did or did not work at Pfizer and in the title claimed by PV ? https://youtu.be/X2VIcb0VeQg If he did work there I doubt he’s been fired , raked over the coals yes but firing him would only send him running to news companies bidding for his story . https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsnation/

I checked Snopes. Seems Pfizer does employ a man of that name. The rest of it, well they have form. So wouldn’t be surprised if it’s legit.

Its such a bizarre story with so many possibilities, udo put up a clip from George Webb who has some interesting theories but no hard proof . Pfizer certainly has a dodgy past along with others . It seems to be , try to get away with what you can and if caught pay the fine and move on . Secret deals with governments, lack of transparency and accountability isn’t a great recipe.

Disaster Capitalism at its finest.

Had a good one this morning myself supa, daughter (13) paddled out and got a bomb inside me straight away this morning, I was stoked and could see the writing on the wall at the same time. Ha!

soggydog wrote:

Disaster Capitalism at its finest.

Had a good one this morning myself supa, daughter (13) paddled out and got a bomb inside me straight away this morning, I was stoked and could see the writing on the wall at the same time. Ha!

Hahaha just burn her next time , tell her your eyesight’s fading. ( joking )

Roadkill wrote:

FriarTuck wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Very embarrassing…a real lack of question everything.

Gullible bunch.

says the 3 x jabber for nothing and still got it, lmao
did your mother get covid from a cafe yet and did you have to kill them lol
fwit comment of the century goes to you

Is that you BD? Or another burls signon.

poor toadill can't admit you fell for the media funded by government scare mongering campaign, scared little puddy cat lol

soggydog wrote:

Disaster Capitalism at its finest.

Had a good one this morning myself supa, daughter (13) paddled out and got a bomb inside me straight away this morning, I was stoked and could see the writing on the wall at the same time. Ha!

wait till she's 20 she will be dropping in on you and catching twice as many, like mine lol

seeds wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

FriarTuck wrote:

Roadkill wrote:

Very embarrassing…a real lack of question everything.

Gullible bunch.

says the 3 x jabber for nothing and still got it, lmao
did your mother get covid from a cafe yet and did you have to kill them lol
fwit comment of the century goes to you

Is that you BD? Or another burls signon.

I had wondered the same.

You both sound a little paranoid to me.

Paranoid! About what?

AndyM wrote:

Start by looking up postmodernism and also nihilism, then follow that up by searching for some papers on libertarianism.
Then search for how social media platforms polarise opinions and beliefs.
Then factor in globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism, and how this affects things.

Supa, this little chat started when we were talking about "trusting scientists", or more to the point, choosing which scientists we're going to trust as suits us
i.e. seemingly choosing our own truth.
This choosing our own truth extends in some circles to believing in chemtrails or even that shape-shifting alien lizards control the world.
I listed off a whole lot of "isms" and some other bits and pieces that can be seen to have got us as a society to where we are with regards to often (especially with topics like Covid and vaccinations) not even having a staring point for a conversation any more.
So.
Post-modernism.
This field of philosophy has been around since the 1940s and '50s and rejects certainty surrounding the nature, origin, and scope of knowledge and also rejects the stability of meaning.
Postmodernism dismisses claims that facts are objective and are not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.
Similarly, nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
Libertarianism.
This is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as a core value, including freedom of expression, freedom of choice and freedom of movement.
Not surprisingly, modern libertarianism took off in the US in the mid-20th century and of course, has crept its way into the Australian psyche over the past few decades.
American-style liberalism and libertarianism really came to the fore during anti-lockdown protests during Covid.
Next, we can see that social media sites exacerbate social and political polarization by creating “echo chambers” that prevent people from being exposed to information that contradicts their pre-existing beliefs.
Social media sites are poor places for nuanced conversation, especially when users are anonymous and/or looking to "score points" in front of a peer group - social media tends to be highly performative.
Globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism.
In this case, these refer to the ownership of large media organisations and the intertwined relationship these have with the highest levels of government.
Of course, you can also include big pharma in there.
Clearly, the pursuit of power and money at this level can and does lead to large-scale corruption and the spread of misinformation.

So basically, these days people will happily say the most ridiculous things and back it up by quoting a passable definition of post-modernism.
Even stuff like "people can walk through brick walls" and the like.
It's possible because there's no universal truth, man.
Pre-internet, choosing your own truth was a pretty niche undertaking - things stayed pretty small scale and tended to not reach the critical mass required to sustain them.
Now, you can go and find your own little online community and meet up with likeminded weirdos.
Thousands of them.
Tens of thousands of them.

And it's not surprising that people are so jaded and cynical and confused - the government and the media have been lying to them forever.
It's just that now, they feel they have the intellectual capacity to counter this and they're self-righteous and self-centred enough to carry it through.
Throw in social media and we've got a very interesting set of circumstances.
Choose whatever "truth" you want.
Just because you can.
Because you're worth it.
Fun times.

I'll add another "ism" that plays in this sandbox to AndyM's list... narcissism.

@Andy M , thanks for taking the time to explain the ism’s you were talking about , appreciate the effort you have put in . In the article from SMH https://www.smh.com.au/national/not-having-a-big-impact-covid-drug-fails... I would put my faith in the Oxford University scientists. My reasons are because of the size of their study compared to Merck and because they are independent and have nothing to gain from their findings , plus their reputation is pretty good . What category of ism would I fall into with this type of thinking ?

https://apple.news/AYulinkGpR_OmJNiSsLS-iw
Cookerwatch on Twitter if you do Twitter (which I don’t)

AndyM wrote:

AndyM wrote:

Start by looking up postmodernism and also nihilism, then follow that up by searching for some papers on libertarianism.
Then search for how social media platforms polarise opinions and beliefs.
Then factor in globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism, and how this affects things.

Supa, this little chat started when we were talking about "trusting scientists", or more to the point, choosing which scientists we're going to trust as suits us
i.e. seemingly choosing our own truth.
This choosing our own truth extends in some circles to believing in chemtrails or even that shape-shifting alien lizards control the world.
I listed off a whole lot of "isms" and some other bits and pieces that can be seen to have got us as a society to where we are with regards to often (especially with topics like Covid and vaccinations) not even having a staring point for a conversation any more.
So.
Post-modernism.
This field of philosophy has been around since the 1940s and '50s and rejects certainty surrounding the nature, origin, and scope of knowledge and also rejects the stability of meaning.
Postmodernism dismisses claims that facts are objective and are not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.
Similarly, nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
Libertarianism.
This is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as a core value, including freedom of expression, freedom of choice and freedom of movement.
Not surprisingly, modern libertarianism took off in the US in the mid-20th century and of course, has crept its way into the Australian psyche over the past few decades.
American-style liberalism and libertarianism really came to the fore during anti-lockdown protests during Covid.
Next, we can see that social media sites exacerbate social and political polarization by creating “echo chambers” that prevent people from being exposed to information that contradicts their pre-existing beliefs.
Social media sites are poor places for nuanced conversation, especially when users are anonymous and/or looking to "score points" in front of a peer group - social media tends to be highly performative.
Globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism.
In this case, these refer to the ownership of large media organisations and the intertwined relationship these have with the highest levels of government.
Of course, you can also include big pharma in there.
Clearly, the pursuit of power and money at this level can and does lead to large-scale corruption and the spread of misinformation.

So basically, these days people will happily say the most ridiculous things and back it up by quoting a passable definition of post-modernism.
Even stuff like "people can walk through brick walls" and the like.
It's possible because there's no universal truth, man.
Pre-internet, choosing your own truth was a pretty niche undertaking - things stayed pretty small scale and tended to not reach the critical mass required to sustain them.
Now, you can go and find your own little online community and meet up with likeminded weirdos.
Thousands of them.
Tens of thousands of them.

And it's not surprising that people are so jaded and cynical and confused - the government and the media have been lying to them forever.
It's just that now, they feel they have the intellectual capacity to counter this and they're self-righteous and self-centred enough to carry it through.
Throw in social media and we've got a very interesting set of circumstances.
Choose whatever "truth" you want.
Just because you can.
Because you're worth it.
Fun times.

Don't always agree with your comments, but that is an excellent summary.... Well written.

wax24 wrote:

I'll add another "ism" that plays in this sandbox to AndyM's list... narcissism.

Definitely part of the mix although I don’t know how much is genuine and how much is performative, considering that certain narcissistic traits seem to be fashionable at times.

Supafreak wrote:

@Andy M , thanks for taking the time to explain the ism’s you were talking about , appreciate the effort you have put in . In the article from SMH https://www.smh.com.au/national/not-having-a-big-impact-covid-drug-fails... I would put my faith in the Oxford University scientists. My reasons are because of the size of their study compared to Merck and because they are independent and have nothing to gain from their findings , plus their reputation is pretty good . What category of ism would I fall into with this type of thinking ?

Keep in mind I haven’t been following that particular discussion you mentioned, quoting faith in an institution like Oxford university sounds totally reasonable.
I just get the grumps when people say things like “ oh big institutions like that are always under the thumb of big pharma” or whatever.
Not that you’ve said that but it happens all the time including on Swellnet.

andy-mac wrote:

AndyM wrote:

AndyM wrote:

Start by looking up postmodernism and also nihilism, then follow that up by searching for some papers on libertarianism.
Then search for how social media platforms polarise opinions and beliefs.
Then factor in globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism, and how this affects things.

Supa, this little chat started when we were talking about "trusting scientists", or more to the point, choosing which scientists we're going to trust as suits us
i.e. seemingly choosing our own truth.
This choosing our own truth extends in some circles to believing in chemtrails or even that shape-shifting alien lizards control the world.
I listed off a whole lot of "isms" and some other bits and pieces that can be seen to have got us as a society to where we are with regards to often (especially with topics like Covid and vaccinations) not even having a staring point for a conversation any more.
So.
Post-modernism.
This field of philosophy has been around since the 1940s and '50s and rejects certainty surrounding the nature, origin, and scope of knowledge and also rejects the stability of meaning.
Postmodernism dismisses claims that facts are objective and are not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.
Similarly, nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated.
Libertarianism.
This is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as a core value, including freedom of expression, freedom of choice and freedom of movement.
Not surprisingly, modern libertarianism took off in the US in the mid-20th century and of course, has crept its way into the Australian psyche over the past few decades.
American-style liberalism and libertarianism really came to the fore during anti-lockdown protests during Covid.
Next, we can see that social media sites exacerbate social and political polarization by creating “echo chambers” that prevent people from being exposed to information that contradicts their pre-existing beliefs.
Social media sites are poor places for nuanced conversation, especially when users are anonymous and/or looking to "score points" in front of a peer group - social media tends to be highly performative.
Globalised neoliberalism and crony capitalism.
In this case, these refer to the ownership of large media organisations and the intertwined relationship these have with the highest levels of government.
Of course, you can also include big pharma in there.
Clearly, the pursuit of power and money at this level can and does lead to large-scale corruption and the spread of misinformation.

So basically, these days people will happily say the most ridiculous things and back it up by quoting a passable definition of post-modernism.
Even stuff like "people can walk through brick walls" and the like.
It's possible because there's no universal truth, man.
Pre-internet, choosing your own truth was a pretty niche undertaking - things stayed pretty small scale and tended to not reach the critical mass required to sustain them.
Now, you can go and find your own little online community and meet up with likeminded weirdos.
Thousands of them.
Tens of thousands of them.

And it's not surprising that people are so jaded and cynical and confused - the government and the media have been lying to them forever.
It's just that now, they feel they have the intellectual capacity to counter this and they're self-righteous and self-centred enough to carry it through.
Throw in social media and we've got a very interesting set of circumstances.
Choose whatever "truth" you want.
Just because you can.
Because you're worth it.
Fun times.

Don't always agree with your comments, but that is an excellent summary.... Well written.

Can’t believe you wouldn’t agree with me 100% of the time :)