The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

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gsco Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 11:30am

yes exactly blackers, once Trump actually got voted in the wheels set in motion. Then covid came along and the right was an even easier target to discredit, censor and cancel. The mid-terms are still the result of it all. Political warfare 101. Great to see you starting to wake up to things...!

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 11:28am

Who was in power when Covid ‘came along’
US - Republicans
UK - Conservatives
AUS - LNP

….

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 11:35am

Wave man posted something yesterday about the GOP not being able to ‘get their message out’.

What exactly was the right’s message that was censored so hard? Genuine question.

I think that goes to the heart of the problem in the mid-terms. The Dems knew that they couldn’t rely on Biden, so they had a consistent message. That was reflected in an article on Politco or own of those sites. If I find I’ll post it.

Can’t say the same for the GOP, split between the NTs, RINOs, MAGAs and god knows what else. Self-censorship if anything.

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sypkan Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 11:36am

"I get where Sypkan is coming from, rigged isn't really the right word, he isn't suggesting it was rigged in a voter fraud Trump way, but in that every other outside force possible was trying to ensure he didn't get in, the first time they all didn't think it could happen and didn't take him seriously and got caught out, second time, every force possible ensured it didn't happen.

I don't think many republican voters would disagree with this i think even many democrat voters if being honest would too, i think its hard to argue its not true..."

exactly indo

I've explicitly stated this several timrs in my various conversations with etarip, but he keeps going back there...

(whilst ignoring my main points)

I find interesting that well educated, rational, and even well intentioned people like etarip struggle to talk about this stuff without getting all flabberghasted and rolling out the same old tropes...

which isn't a shot at etarip, more an observation of the heat in the debate

seems every trump hater's got a bit of perpetually triggered guysmiley within

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 12:20pm

Hey syppo, no heat in this debate for me.
If I haven’t been clear, I don’t think every possible force was opposing Trump and his ilk.

I just don’t see that ‘the message’ was clear nor compelling for voters, and it appears that many of them made a choice to not turn up to vote. Perhaps a parallel to the Dems in 2016?

More broadly, Is the GOP on message? Do they have a message? Are they united? Do they represent political, economic and consistency with their history?

I don’t see how I’m flabbergasted. My view is consistent. The explanations for recent results in US (and probably Australian) politics are more prosaic than conspiratorial.

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blackers Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 12:45pm
gsco wrote:

yes exactly blackers, once Trump actually got voted in the wheels set in motion. Then covid came along and the right was an even easier target to discredit, censor and cancel. The mid-terms are still the result of it all. Political warfare 101. Great to see you starting to wake up to things...!

Hah hah funny man.

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frog Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 12:53pm

A commentor summed up the GOP election pitch as roughly: Biden bad, inflation bad and it was stolen. No policies or solutions of note.

That is not enough for the middle ground to shift in their direction and to counter the 'don't feel comfortable with this MAGA stuff or more Trump.

It was theirs for the taking. They blew it.

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:17pm

100% frog

Perversely. I think there might have been a sense of ‘better the devil you know’ that crept in too.

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freeride76 Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:20pm

Seems like the abortion issue brought out younger voters who voted Democrat.

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sypkan Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:20pm

exactly frog, and etarip

I actually said way back they had no message, no policy...

beyond don't vote for the other guy...

they did a morrison

even a moderate back of napkin plan for the economy and they would have probably smashed it. but i dare say the party is too divided to even agree on that

or too complacent with the biden shambles

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GuySmiley Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:32pm

A couple of political truisms are relevant to Trump and US politics:

Oppositions don’t win elections governments (or presidents) lose them; and

If you have to choose between a conspiracy and a cock up always assume a cock up.

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stunet Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:37pm

I'm with Steve. Don't discount the effect Roe vs Wade would've had in this election.

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frog Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:42pm
etarip wrote:

100% frog

Perversely. I think there might have been a sense of ‘better the devil you know’ that crept in too.

A choice between a "Sniffer and Grifter" and return to "Captain Chaos". What a choice :(

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:43pm

Speaking of grifting; Trump’s links to sites that are ‘fundraising’ for the GA senate run off -fine print- are split 90% Trump : 10% Walker (the actual candidate)

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 1:45pm
stunet wrote:

I'm with Steve. Don't discount the effect Roe vs Wade would've had in this election.

My wife, who spent 8 years of her early adulthood living in the US, would agree with you on that Stu / FR. Her WhatsApp message groups were lit up.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 2:03pm
adam12 wrote:

Murdoch seeming to back DeSantis who has no MAGA voters outside of Florida. They will eat themselves.

Outside of Fox news The Daily Wire is the biggest Conservative news type platform in the USA on Facebook its page has a combined user number of likes and followers of over 7 million, so it's comment section is pretty good snap shot of USA conservative voters are thinking/viewing things.

Two years ago it would have been 99% pro Trump, it's not going that way anymore the majority of comments are in the vein of Trump needs to step aside and De Santis is the man.

Below is three snap shots of comments from three seperate articles in last week or so, I just clicked all comments and screen shot the top ones, I'm seeing this narrative under every article with Trump and De Santis, it's only a minority that are still 100% Trump.



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freeride76 Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 2:26pm

I think Trump will trash the joint on the way out.

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 5:46pm

FR, Stu. I just read that 72% of women voters in the 18-29 bracket voted Dem for House election.

Way to go Roe.

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Supafreak Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 6:19pm

Do ya reckon if trump announces he’s running in 2024 , that desantis will be told to cool his heels and save his run for 2028 ? Then he would have the trump voters behind him and a better chance of being elected.

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etarip Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 6:29pm

I reckon the GOP will turn itself inside out if Trump announces an intent to run. Look at the amount of shit that’s being shared by former inner-circle since the mid-terms.

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adam12 Monday, 14 Nov 2022 at 7:09pm

I reckon with Trump weakened, they will all run. Trump, DeSantis, Pence, Nikki Hayley, Pompeo, even Kari Lake if she gets in, maybe even Sarah Palin and Huckabee. Ted Cruz, Rubio, then there's Tim Scott, Youngkin, and perhaps even Liz Cheney. DeSantis may well get the nod and his youthful good looks compared to Sleepy Joe would contrast well, but the mid terms show that the electorate is up and about and has some bigger issues to prosecute this cycle, like democratic values and abortion. Going to be both fun and frightening to watch.
With that, I'm off these forums for a while, bigger fish, etc. have fun boys.

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frog Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 7:56am

We should hope for a Biden / Biden ticket. Experience and Youth. A first family to be proud of.

Both pass the sniff test.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 12:30pm

https://inews.co.uk/news/rupert-murdoch-urges-donald-trump-not-run-2024-... Rupert Murdoch urges Donald Trump not to run in 2024, threatening to back a Democrat if he does

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Supafreak Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:10pm

Didn’t like being told Donny was her man , likes guns too apparently. Also calls Donny , President Donald Trump

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stunet Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:18pm
Supafreak wrote:

Didn’t like being told Donny was her man , likes guns too apparently. Also calls Donny , President Donald Trump https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1592357900042633216?s=46&t=tAZ...

60 Minutes vs The Dickless Donald. There are no winners here.

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flollo Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:22pm
Supafreak wrote:

Didn’t like being told Donny was her man , likes guns too apparently. Also calls Donny , President Donald Trump https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1592357900042633216?s=46&t=tAZ...

Jeez Supa, but if you look at it from a different angle she will be a huge hero to some people. She held her ground exceptionally well (I don't agree with her) and those who support this view will see her as a freedom fighter. This video can be celebrated from multiple angles.

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Supafreak Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:23pm
stunet wrote:
Supafreak wrote:

Didn’t like being told Donny was her man , likes guns too apparently. Also calls Donny , President Donald Trump https://twitter.com/ronfilipkowski/status/1592357900042633216?s=46&t=tAZ...

60 Minutes vs The Dickless Donald. There are no winners here.

No winners but a bloody good laugh

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:33pm

What I was saying about disputed real facts/truth - how can there be free speech when the most basic of facts are questioned?

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sypkan Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:41pm

"What I was saying about disputed real facts/truth - how can there be free speech when the most basic of facts are questioned?"

yeh your right, censor it all

its all a 'conspiracy'

russia russia russia...

biden's laptop

covid bullshit

lab leak

hilary's emails

shut it all down!!!

no debate to be entered into...

cos guysmiley said so

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 3:54pm

Huh?

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sypkan Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 4:24pm

"...how can there be free speech when the most basic of facts are questioned?"

you're always throwing this line out there

Im sorry, but its your ilk thats been pushing more of the 'questionable facts' of late...

by a significant margin

with no debate to be entered into

then you've all got the audacity to pump out lines about 'facts'

its truly is alternate universe stuff

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 15 Nov 2022 at 4:40pm

You’re a funny man sypkan

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flollo Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 10:24am
indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 12:33pm
sypkan wrote:

"...how can there be free speech when the most basic of facts are questioned?"

you're always throwing this line out there

Im sorry, but its your ilk thats been pushing more of the 'questionable facts' of late...

by a significant margin

with no debate to be entered into

then you've all got the audacity to pump out lines about 'facts'

its truly is alternate universe stuff

I missed this thread last night, but last nights comment in the other thread is even more relevant to this discussion.

This idea of Guys that you cant have free speech because basic facts/truths aren't believed by everyone is crazy and makes no sense at all.

It doesn't matter how crazy an idea is generally speaking* people should be able to air them and should be up for debate or discussion

For instance should someone have the right to believe and say publicly the earth is flat?

Yeah of course they should, its their right to believe it and say it publicly or even publish a website or book saying the earth is flat, but of course to most of us they also look silly and we can prove them wrong very quickly with science and most of us would never even bother getting into a discussion about it and find those who believe the earth is flat amusing.

Like my post last night dealt with, one of the craziest ideas around today and one popular with progressives and one that see's people banned from social media or canceled for not accepting or pointing out is false with science is the idea that a person born one sex can actually become the opposite sex purely because they believe it and even believe that a man can have a baby.

Again everyone should have the right to believe whatever they like and air their ideas publicly, but others should also have the freedom to say sorry while you might believe you are now the opposite sex, I can prove with science that you aren't and i can prove with science men cant have babies and of course not be forced into accepting your belief is true, exactly the same as flat earthers.

*Sure there is rare exceptions

BTW. The topic is fresh in my mind as yesterday i watched the docco "what is a women" could only find a crappy copy on youtube though.

&t=1416s

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 12:41pm

Sssssh, info, you can have all the opinions you like (and you do) but not your own facts. World of difference I’m afraid.

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thermalben Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 1:29pm

And... Trump's back! Just announced he's running for President 2024.

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andy-mac Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 1:35pm
thermalben wrote:

And... Trump's back! Just announced he's running for President 2024.

Bring on the 'Great and Glorious again!'
What a shit show this will be. Get the pop corn ready as the USA implodes... Interesting times indeed ..

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Sprout Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 1:35pm

He's so embarrassing and cringe.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 1:50pm
GuySmiley wrote:

Sssssh, info, you can have all the opinions you like (and you do) but not your own facts. World of difference I’m afraid.

Well it should be that way an opinion should only become a fact when its able to be proven with evidence but as shown above it's not always the case, sometimes an opinion without evidence to support it can gain traction among many as fact even when its easily disproven with evidence.

Or in many cases it gains traction as fact even though it can't be either proven or disproven, in many cases it is seen as fact because it suits a certain political or social agenda viewpoint better or the outcome we prefer or feel most comfortable with..

Thats why freedom of speech is important, in many cases it should be part of the process of helping determine what is opinion and what is fact.

The problem some have is they fear their opinions they see as facts could be disproven so they oppose the free speech that may unravel things.

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thermalben Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 1:51pm

My head just exploded reading that, ID (to be fair, I'm still in pain with Shingles, but still, you've made it worse).

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 1:53pm

ha ha hope you get rid of those things they don't sound fun.

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Supafreak Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 2:00pm
thermalben wrote:

And... Trump's back! Just announced he's running for President 2024.

With covid on the back burner and the war in Ukraine asking for more billions , a distraction like trump running will keep the media foaming at the mouth for the next few years .

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 2:00pm

Info, I’ve read your last post three times and still can’t comprehend what you trying to say, are you really saying opinions can be facts? Surely not, not even you c/would think that! Tell me I’ve misunderstood you

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flollo Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 2:07pm

@indo you are reiterating the point I made earlier. Freedom of speech and being canceled on a private business platform like Twitter are not the same concepts. It's up to the business operators of Twitter (and similar) to decide who they want there and as you are on the right you should support their right to do exactly that. As far as I'm aware there is no societal-level legislation limiting what people can say which means freedom of speech is guaranteed. However, certain words can result in members of society (and certain businesses like twitter) canceling someone out. This basically means that they don't want to be associated with that person and I can understand that. Please don't confuse the 2, they're not the same things.

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burleigh Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 2:52pm

Trump 2024. Easy victory

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thermalben Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 2:53pm

It won't be easy. But it's certainly possible.

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andy-mac Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 3:09pm

Geez, seems like the United of United States part may become history... Cannot see how big blue states such as California would accept another Trump presidency. Reckon the cold civil war happening now could heat up there if Trump got in.
Strange days.

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Supafreak Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 3:25pm
andy-mac wrote:

Geez, seems like the United of United States part may become history... Cannot see how big blue states such as California would accept another Trump presidency. Reckon the cold civil war happening now could heat up there if Trump got in.
Strange days.

Trump or death

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 3:28pm
GuySmiley wrote:

Info, I’ve read your last post three times and still can’t comprehend what you trying to say, are you really saying opinions can be facts? Surely not, not even you c/would think that! Tell me I’ve misunderstood you

An opinion is just a viewpoint so of course it can be true and factual an opinion can also be false too and can also be partly true and party false or might not even fall into any real truth either way and only just be a personal opinion.

For instance long ago there was spilt opinion on if the earth was round or flat.

Some had the opinion it was flat and some that it was round.

But then those that believed it was round brought evidence to prove it was round with maths and science and exploration the opinion of those who thought the earth was round then become fact while those who thought the earth was flat opinion was proven false.

However an opinion doesn't have to be correct or wrong, for instance i could say a movie or band is good or bad, I'm nether right or wrong, its just a personal opinion.

Or opinions can be correct even though they may differ slightly, for instance i might go to one doctor get his view on the best treatment and then decide i want a second opinion and go to another doctor, their treatments might vary slightly but still work and be true.

I might even go to a naturopath and get their opinion and the treatment might be very different but still work.

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andy-mac Wednesday, 16 Nov 2022 at 3:36pm

Wonder how the Murdoch media machine will react after Rupert reportedly telling Trump he would not support his run for the top job.
Clusterfuck! GOP could self ignite? Democrats easy win, or does Trump get in although losing vote count twice???
Whatever happens, not good for USA or civil society. Trump supporters next level nasty pieces of work....