The United States(!) of A

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factotum started the topic in Thursday, 27 Aug 2020 at 11:12am

Septic Tanks are going to Septic Tank

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GuySmiley Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 6:30am

big night sypkan?
2:17AM ??

indo-dreaming's picture
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indo-dreaming Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 7:17am

Ive honestly got to a point where there really is no point replying to VL 90% of the time as he has such a skewed grasp or reality and just not capable of proper discussion without over the top insult or abuse.

Anyway my post was aimed towards Roker and the point was about impact on police comparing one day and a whole year or riots and campaign of hate that in reality could have a negative impact on police for years, one had an impact on a few police officers, the other extremely wide spread possibly impacting thousands of officers in some way.

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sypkan Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 2:08pm

well, you know they've literally got nothing when they're pulling out this well worn little gem...

"big night sypkan?
2:17AM ??"

yeh, it was a big night, after a full day of being a chief child minder, I took the slim nightshift opportunity to do some long running, perpetually half finished, house reno. work... was still in bed before midnight though...

you running a must be nappied up and in bed by 9.00 old man routine?

not looking forward to that... but good on you for looking after yourself

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I focus Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 2:52pm

The issue with Jan 6th attack on the Capital is that it was a part of the narrative Trump stared running before the election and after claiming he won (1st time in 200 years BTW)

That's not a good thing.

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Vic Local Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 4:53pm

Given 40% of Americans still think Trump won the last election, democracy in the USA is very fragile at the moment. Pretty scary how much the Australian taxpayer is on the hook for US military equipment. What happens to the JSF project and Aukus if the US slides into a civil war or some Trump style nutter seizes power over there?

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AndyM Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 6:05pm

How would it be possible for a "Trump style nutter" to seize power in the U.S.?

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Roker Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 6:49pm
AndyM wrote:

How would it be possible for a "Trump style nutter" to seize power in the U.S.?

Okay, I’ll have a crack.

Use your proxies in the media to propagate the myth that the election you just lost was rigged. Use the same media to pressure the Vice President to not certify the election. Send The Proud Boys to storm the Capitol to make sure the VP properly gets the message. There’s a constitutional crisis. The Supreme Court has to adjudicate the election result. Perfect, you’ve stacked the court with your flunkies. Meanwhile, your state governors have been gerrymandering and changing electoral laws to shore up marginal districts. You’ve intimidated members of congress in your own party who’ve opposed you into relinquishing their seats. Those that replace them are your people. The unrepresentative electoral college system works to your advantage. You’ve got a compliant congress, one that no longer provides a safeguard against unrestricted executive power, but acts as an extension of executive power. You can do what the fuck you want.

Any of this sounding familiar?

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sypkan Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 6:50pm

they'd have to be something like 40% still think hilary won in 2016... so...

"What happens to the JSF project and Aukus if the US slides into a civil war or some Trump style nutter seizes power over there?"

you are probably about to find out...

trump is almost a shoe in in 2024 if it's biden v trump

geez, he's almost a shoe in if it's v kamala, or just about anybody from the rest of em too...

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AndyM Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 8:10pm
Roker wrote:
AndyM wrote:

How would it be possible for a "Trump style nutter" to seize power in the U.S.?

Okay, I’ll have a crack.

Use your proxies in the media to propagate the myth that the election you just lost was rigged. Use the same media to pressure the Vice President to not certify the election. Send The Proud Boys to storm the Capitol to make sure the VP properly gets the message. There’s a constitutional crisis. The Supreme Court has to adjudicate the election result. Perfect, you’ve stacked the court with your flunkies. Meanwhile, your state governors have been gerrymandering and changing electoral laws to shore up marginal districts. You’ve intimidated members of congress in your own party who’ve opposed you into relinquishing their seats. Those that replace them are your people. The unrepresentative electoral college system works to your advantage. You’ve got a compliant congress, one that no longer provides a safeguard against unrestricted executive power, but acts as an extension of executive power. You can do what the fuck you want.

Any of this sounding familiar?

And didn't come remotely close to "seizing power".

Not even vaguely, a little bit close.

Not at all.

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Roker Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 8:24pm
AndyM wrote:
Roker wrote:
AndyM wrote:

How would it be possible for a "Trump style nutter" to seize power in the U.S.?

Okay, I’ll have a crack.

Use your proxies in the media to propagate the myth that the election you just lost was rigged. Use the same media to pressure the Vice President to not certify the election. Send The Proud Boys to storm the Capitol to make sure the VP properly gets the message. There’s a constitutional crisis. The Supreme Court has to adjudicate the election result. Perfect, you’ve stacked the court with your flunkies. Meanwhile, your state governors have been gerrymandering and changing electoral laws to shore up marginal districts. You’ve intimidated members of congress in your own party who’ve opposed you into relinquishing their seats. Those that replace them are your people. The unrepresentative electoral college system works to your advantage. You’ve got a compliant congress, one that no longer provides a safeguard against unrestricted executive power, but acts as an extension of executive power. You can do what the fuck you want.

Any of this sounding familiar?

And didn't come remotely close to "seizing power".

Not even vaguely, a little bit close.

Not at all.

Okay. Depends how you look at 'to seize'. Probably best not to think about it too literally in this context.

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AndyM Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 9:57pm

Right.

Point being, when ol' Vic waxes lyrical about someone like Trump "seizing power", he's talking out his arse.

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GuySmiley Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 10:11pm

Not sure why anyone here needs to get excited about the US; it’s a basket case, a testament to the frailties and greed of mankind. Fifty divided states with fifty different approaches to law and order, health, education and elections where voter suppression laws and gerrymanders ensure republicans who would otherwise be unelectable win office, this from the country that prides itself in attempting to preach democracy to unworthy countries using armed conflict. A clusterfuck of a country, god help any country that forms any sort of an alliance with them.

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Vic Local Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 10:35pm
AndyM wrote:

Right.

Point being, when ol' Vic waxes lyrical about someone like Trump "seizing power", he's talking out his arse.

Did you miss Jan 6, 2021 Andy M? Bunch of Trump fans stormed the capital because they didn't believe Trump lost the election. Elected officials had to evacuate the chamber because they feared for their lives. They didn't want the orderly transfer of power to the party that won the election.
It was kind of a big thing.

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sypkan Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 11:25pm

"It was kind of a big thing."

kind of a big thing...

but not remotely close to anything significant beyond an unruly mob with no clear purpose controlling the chamber for a day or so at best...

but don't let the reality get in the way of your hyperbole

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adam12 Saturday, 8 Jan 2022 at 11:40pm

The Capitol being stormed is a big thing. Very big.
The fact that it was stormed by the dipshit army doesn't diminish it's significance.

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sypkan Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 1:23am

yes it was a big thing, truly a 'shit look at that!' moment... great television...

but as close as they got to the corridors of power, nothing came of it... because they had no power, no organisation, no clear objective... if parts of the military or a significant number of representatives were behind them, it may have been a different story...

but they weren't... so it was nothing more than a bunch of bogans and misfits finding themselves in a couldn't believe their luck selfie moment... literally...

for the more sober commentators, the real story is the failure of security services, because despite all the intelligence, all the lead up, and all the most obvious of building fervour, it beggars belief that the security services weren't ready in anticipation

and these more sober commentators have said that is where the focus should be, ...but it is not... because there's no 'get trump' value in it...

(and it also appears both sides were damningly complicit in this failure)

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Blowin Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 5:40am
AndyM's picture
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AndyM Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 7:28am
Vic Local wrote:
AndyM wrote:

Right.

Point being, when ol' Vic waxes lyrical about someone like Trump "seizing power", he's talking out his arse.

Did you miss Jan 6, 2021 Andy M? Bunch of Trump fans stormed the capital because they didn't believe Trump lost the election. Elected officials had to evacuate the chamber because they feared for their lives. They didn't want the orderly transfer of power to the party that won the election.
It was kind of a big thing.

Whether it’s a big thing or not is beside the point.
This talk of seizing power or it being an attempted coup is pure hyperbole and misinformation.
In a world of increased polarisation and an inability to engage in rational discussion you’re part of the problem.

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Vic Local Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 8:49am

"This talk of seizing power or it being an attempted coup is pure hyperbole and misinformation."
You don't understand how fascism works mate. In democratic nations, it doesn't start with people / the military storming buildings. that's not an effective tactic. Getting a fascist govt is a process, not a single event.
Read this mate. Trump ticked off a shit load of these, except for the final one.
https://www.bremertonschools.org/cms/lib/WA01001541/Centricity/Domain/22...

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 9:14am

You really have to wonder if the capitol riot would have ever happened if there hasn't been widespread riots and anarchy in the USA during 2020.

Personally i think it's very unlikely, let's be real rioting and anarchy had pretty much become normalised and acceptable in the USA during 2020.

People are really just like kids, if one kid pushes the boundaries and gets away with something other kids will also follow suit.

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AndyM Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 9:33am
Vic Local wrote:

"This talk of seizing power or it being an attempted coup is pure hyperbole and misinformation."
You don't understand how fascism works mate. In democratic nations, it doesn't start with people / the military storming buildings. that's not an effective tactic. Getting a fascist govt is a process, not a single event.
Read this mate. Trump ticked off a shit load of these, except for the final one.
https://www.bremertonschools.org/cms/lib/WA01001541/Centricity/Domain/22...

I appreciate you putting up that link Vic, very interesting.
But going by those points the United States has been leaning somewhat towards fascism for many many decades.
As I’ve said multiple times before, Trump is a symptom not a cause.

At the same time you’ve shifted the conversation away from the “capital building coup” and towards fascism.

Too much coffee this morning or disingenuous?

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 10:07am

I focus's picture
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I focus Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 10:45am
indo-dreaming wrote:

You really have to wonder if the capitol riot would have ever happened if there hasn't been widespread riots and anarch

Question is what dose that mean for the futurey in the USA during 2020.
.

One was because of a group in the community were getting shot dead by police (did morph into other stuff as well)and the other was a political act.

The problem with the attack on the capitol was that an American President was involved along with looking like others in the administration.

Question is what does that mean for the future?

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Vic Local Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 8:40pm

This is another really interesting article about the current division in the USA.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/09/is-the-us-really-heading...
You probably won't like it Indo Dreaming. It doesn't blame BLM for every problem in the USA, but you probably should read it anyway.

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 8:58pm

Lets give it a go

Im only in a few lines and

“At this moment, we must decide,” Biden said in Statuary Hall, where rioters had swarmed a year earlier. “What kind of nation are we going to be? Are we going to be a nation that accepts political violence as a norm?”

Kind of funny that, lets not kid ourselves BLM & Antifa are 100% political violence and he wasn't complaining then was he????

Kamala even encouraging people to help fund bail for those rioting, pretty much encouraging political violence

God only a few more lines along and this

"there is fear that that day was the just the beginning of a wave of unrest, conflict and domestic terrorism."

Beginning ???? FFS was the writer asleep during 2020?

Skimmed over the rest it's just complete trash.

Like i said if you let one side get out and smash and burn shit up and have a tantrum, expect the others side to think they can do the same, Biden & Kamala are at just as much fault as Trump, because just like Trump, they did very little to discourage violence and just like Trump kind of encouraged it in a way.

Both sides are to blame .

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GuySmiley Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 9:58pm

Info your ability to narrow your focus to one year of civil unrest and blame in the 200+ year Nth American history is out of this world staggeringly naive.

There can never be any justification for what Trump did before, during and after the election, ever.

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Vic Local Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 10:04pm
GuySmiley wrote:

Info your ability to narrow your focus to one year of civil unrest and blame in the 200+ year Nth American history is out of this world staggeringly naive.

There can never be any justification for what Trump did before, during and after the election, ever.

Let me channel ID for a sec. But BLM...

That article I linked highlights so much of ID's tribal thinking. One of the key reasons why the USA is in it's current shitty situation.

Fair dinkum ID, if you lived in the USA you'd be joining a militia to counter the "evil" Democrats and their "allies" in the BLM.

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adam12 Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 10:04pm

When the Capitol was stormed Indo tried to say "Antifa" infiltrated the mob. It was a fantasy, an alt-right dribbler fantasy. Proved to be bullshit, he now says the mob was inspired by Antifa/BLM violence so the left share the blame.
Hilarious.

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Vic Local Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 10:34pm
adam12 wrote:

When the Capitol was stormed Indo tried to say "Antifa" infiltrated the mob. It was a fantasy, an alt-right dribbler fantasy. Proved to be bullshit, he now says the mob was inspired by Antifa/BLM violence so the left share the blame.
Hilarious.

I wouldn't have finished your accurate post with "Hilarious" Adam12.
There's nothing funny about excusing or diminishing the actions of traitorous scum who couldn't accept the result of a democratic election and tried to prevent the peaceful transition of power.
"Pathetic" is a more appropriate term for ID.

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sypkan Sunday, 9 Jan 2022 at 11:57pm

well there's some serious overlooking / denial / ignorance going on here if people cannot acknowledge that antifa / blm were totally weaponised in an effort to get rid of trump

and if you don't think watching cities burn and be looted for four months across america, basically endorsed, excused, and with even bails paid for by democrats doesn't build up some tension, disbelief and resentment looking for a release... then you either have no feelings at all, are incredibly biased, or just hate trump...

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:01am

well there's some serious overlooking / denial / ignorance going on here if people cannot acknowledge that antifa / blm were totally weaponised in an effort to get rid of trump

and if you don't think watching cities burn and be looted for four months across america, basically endorsed, excused, and with even bails paid for by democrats doesn't build up some tension, absolute disbelief, and resentment looking for a release... then you either have no feelings at all, are incredibly biased, or just hate trump at such a level that it clouds your judgement beyond being rational...

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:26am

"There can never be any justification for what Trump did before, during and after the election, ever."

oh yes there can...

the machine threw everything at him, ...literally everything!! ...for four bloody years or more!!!

the russia russia russia ridiculousness wasn't just unscrupulous, outrageous and unfair... it was bloody dangerous, reckless, and destabilising for the whole world, all for some lamearse domestic political gain, purely because the democrats are too corrupted, incompetent, or just plain inept to win fairly

that was just the tip of it, ...they manufactured scandal after scandak for four fucking years... two failed impeachments and countless daily headlines...

with practically the whole establishment apparatus, the media, intelligence services, and even parts of his own party working against him...

trump is a dog, he plays like a dog, but the dogs on the other side totally justified his actions, and then some...

it was gloves off right from the start, and they only got lower and more desperate as time went on

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indo-dreaming Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 7:26am
Vic Local wrote:
GuySmiley wrote:

Info your ability to narrow your focus to one year of civil unrest and blame in the 200+ year Nth American history is out of this world staggeringly naive.

There can never be any justification for what Trump did before, during and after the election, ever.

Let me channel ID for a sec. But BLM...

That article I linked highlights so much of ID's tribal thinking. One of the key reasons why the USA is in it's current shitty situation.

Fair dinkum ID, if you lived in the USA you'd be joining a militia to counter the "evil" Democrats and their "allies" in the BLM.

@VL

If you lived in the USA you would 100% be one of those losers out there rioting thinking everyone is a fascist or racist and that your misguided beliefs somehow give you a right to burn loot and destroy my neighbourhood. (i mean you already think in Australia everyone is a fascist or racist)

And 100% if you did that in my neighbourhood and the police didn't protect my property, id 100% hope i had the balls to stand up and protect my property from being destroyed and burnt to the ground and id hope all my neighbours also did.

A lot of you people are just complete hypocrites as are the Democrats, when your side does it its fine, when the other side says, today we will do the same (without flames) you try to grab some moral high ground

What Trump did was wrong as what happened at capital hill, but so was the countless riots of 2020 and the lack of condemnation from the democrats and left around the world.

In my view the biggest problem with the USA and even the west and what will lead to civil war if it every happens in the USA is the division of society of those that love their country, proud of their culture, history and tradition and the other side who hate their country, hate their culture, hate their history even happy to burn down their own neighbourhoods, claim they must do it because of racism or something, while ironically burning down coloured peoples business????

You cant make this shit up, even the business Rittenhouse was protecting was Indian owned.

I mean who the fuck needs enemies when you have a lot of your own people against everything your country stands for, and countries like China just rub their hands together.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 7:29am
sypkan wrote:

well there's some serious overlooking / denial / ignorance going on here if people cannot acknowledge that antifa / blm were totally weaponised in an effort to get rid of trump

and if you don't think watching cities burn and be looted for four months across america, basically endorsed, excused, and with even bails paid for by democrats doesn't build up some tension, absolute disbelief, and resentment looking for a release... then you either have no feelings at all, are incredibly biased, or just hate trump at such a level that it clouds your judgement beyond being rational...

100%

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blackers Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 8:00am

Speaking of irrational, while there is no doubt your antifa etc were anti trump, this still only represents one side of the coin. To ignore old tangerine head's stirring up of his "base", including the seriously deranged elements, is equally myopic.
Both sides have been weaponised for a long time and it is a really sad situation for the majority of good people in the US and beyond. Seriously, get a grip and try practising some self reflection.

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GuySmiley Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 9:16am

Info doesn’t do self reflection, irony nor nuance.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 10:45am
GuySmiley wrote:

Info doesn’t do self reflection, irony nor nuance.

It isn't about me, read Sypkan's post above he explains much of it better than i can.

But the problem is people like you are too smug and self righteous, siting up on your pedestal looking down on others thinking what every your side does is pure and clean without consequences, but the realty is there is always consequences.

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adam12 Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 11:12am

So Jan. 6 wouldn't have happened unless BLM preceded it? Is that the argument now?
Just fucken own it. Your boy Trump. Him.

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Vic Local Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 11:45am
adam12 wrote:

So Jan. 6 wouldn't have happened unless BLM preceded it? Is that the argument now?
Just fucken own it. Your boy Trump. Him.

adam12. I don't think you understand how batshit crazy conservatism works mate. They don't own anything their side does no matter how fucked up it is. They fight even harder when they know they are wrong, and straw manning and irrational whataboutism is their stock in trade.

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:07pm

"adam12. I don't think you understand how batshit crazy conservatism works mate. They don't own anything their side does no matter how fucked up it is. They fight even harder when they know they are wrong, and straw manning and irrational whataboutism is their stock in trade."

some serious projection and irony in there

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:13pm

it seems gaslighting irony and projection is all the fake left do these days...

which means self reflection is a total non event for them

or the moral high tower is now so lofty they believe they don't need to be accountable for their behaviour

either way... joe public ain't buying it, and that's all that really matters at the end of the day...

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Vic Local Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:16pm

Hey sypkan, I will take the moral high ground over flogs who excuse or justify the Jan 6 insurrection any day of the week. ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

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Sprout Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:24pm

Holy shit Vic you're a crack up, I love that you're still arguing with the morons in here and the C19 thread, keep up that stamina against stupid!

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GuySmiley Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:30pm

I forgot to add info your ability to cherry pick information or events eg BLM to suit your argument is surpassed by none.

I note your buddy sypkan was in bed relatively early last night which is good coz sleep is when his a Viking

https://m.

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:59pm

dude, explain to me, as a leftist... why jan 6 is so bad?

as a leftist myself... i see it as working class people putting up a challenge to a stacked system...

I see it as people who have had enough of a corrupt political class blatantly lying to them....

I see it as a challenge to our model of lobby group 'democracy' that has developed, and all its falseness... that gives billionaires all the power over the people...

I see it as a venting of frustration at a political class, that has sold out a country from under the people's feet, enriching said billionaires even more, and themselves in the process...

and I see it as people feeling insecure, as the billiinaures and political class offer them no future prospects, pump all the money into china, whilst just going further and further down the PR / lip service road that just presents a false reality...

and as a leftist... i see it as an almost revolution, a clayton's revolution if you will... that puts a bomb under the ruling class, putting them on notice, so we can hopefully avoid a full blown bloodbath revolution...

and as a closet anarchist... I quietly think it is great, I love the chaos, the anger, the madness, the true challenge to power, and think it is great that the public are finally fired up enough to say fuck you, we have power too, wake up cunts...

you, to me, just seem full of confected outrage to make a political point

and full of faux concern for the police, the security forces, the sancrosactity of the systems, buildings, and institutions generally...

I see no genuine concern at all, just political opportunism and a falseness to further your cause...

the fake left in full effect!

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 12:55pm

"I note your buddy sypkan was in bed relatively early last night which is good coz sleep is when his a Viking"

well well before midnight last night thanks guysmiley

what's a late night for you? ...must be nappied up and tucked in before what hour old man?

genuinely interested considering you make such a fuss of such things

Im really not looking forward to that... but I do respect your commitment to self preservation

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AndyM Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 1:30pm
Vic Local wrote:

Hey sypkan, I will take the moral high ground over flogs who excuse or justify the Jan 6 insurrection any day of the week. ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

Insurrection?

So it wasn't a coup?

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indo-dreaming Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 1:59pm

I think a lot of people including myself think capitol hill shouldn't have happened.

But I've never ever ever seen one person on the so called left say the riots of 2020 shouldn't have happened, not one, it's always justification of why or denial even the media.

Probably the high point of denial being the now famous CNN report with "fiery but mostly peaceful protest" while in the background a local neighbourhood is up in flames.

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Vic Local Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 2:03pm

"I think a lot of people including myself think capitol hill shouldn't have happened.

But..."

There's always a "but" with you champ. If there was an olympic event for whataboutism, you'd be Australia's representative for sure.

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sypkan Monday, 10 Jan 2022 at 2:06pm

the question vicvocal...

"dude, explain to me, as a leftist... why jan 6 is so bad?"

or are you going to ignore another one?

yet again...