House prices

Blowin's picture
Blowin started the topic in Friday, 9 Dec 2016 at 10:27am

House prices - going to go up , down or sideways ?

Opinions and anecdotal stories if you could.

Cheers

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crustt Saturday, 10 Dec 2016 at 2:08pm

Na, it was all part of the same property, basically we renovated the house we had and made small units on three corners of the house, planing on doing it again maybe closer to town. Otherwise I'm out of a job and it's a great way to make a living if you want to surf, but you wont be able to surf overseas.
I would never own 2 properties, the second one is an asset which is good if you make a good amount of money and that money is stable, but I'd rather go surfing.

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Purplepills Saturday, 10 Dec 2016 at 4:11pm

Geoffrey it is not just a case of picking up some extra work and living within your means and foregoing some luxuries.

First home buyers are at the lowest they have EVER been and HALF of them get the deposit from Mum n Dad.

It is the income to price ratio's (usually about 3.5 x annual salary) Now upwards of 9-10 x Annual salary and for 2 x incomes as an example
My take on your examples...
Gazza goes bankrupt due to cross vesting of his 3 properties and enormous debt (our household debt is the highest per cap @ 135% GDP) and rising interest rates. (repayment will quickly double)
Mick might get a shot for not being greedy and being influenced that investment properties are normal to enter a real estate market. No where else in the world do people buy investment properties like Australians or are allowed to without being sophisticated investors.

My example before when i left school houses were 250-390K where I lived you could get a deposit for a house with a bit of saving and living at home. I did that it was achievable for anyone.

True story my mates son finished trade is looking at 250K for his deposit for his crack den on the northern beaches. How is he going to come up with that sort of coin and having day to day expenses no shaving off the surf trips darts or booze will cut it.
He has moved back home to stop paying $500 per week rent but with all that money going into saving his son and his girlfriend will have their deposit by 2026 what will the market do in that time one can hope it will soften.

The generations that tell the next generation to cut their spending - TV were more expensive as were holidays in the previous generations they still bought them (booze and darts were cheaper) and the 17-18% interest rates that many experienced in the late 80's are NO where near as bad as today if we get back to @7% interest rates this is due to the enormous debt. Give me 17% on a 200K home loan apposed to 7% on 950k.

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geoffrey Saturday, 10 Dec 2016 at 8:39pm

gday pills, thanks for indulging my request for a debate!

i agree with 90% of what your saying, just a few things id like to throw back at you. which hopefully in turn youll throw back at me.

If i use deductive reasoning and your mates son has just finished his trade, is approx 20-24 years of age, depending on what trade hes in and when he finished school. Now ive been in the work force for approx 15-20 years, bought a few shitbox properties before the boom and have always saved every penny, and i couldnt afford a place in the northern suburbs either so i dont think thats the best example. Eastern beach suburbs in sydney are like that. so is noosa, so is wattegos, and so is mollymook recently. so im glad you bought that one up cos i drew reference to it in my first post: Ive noticed alot of my mates want their keeper straight off the bat. Ill assume hes a surfer for the sake of the argument and hes a tradie obviously, why cant he move up or down the coast? tradies can get work alot easier than other professions. its a big ask to move away from your comfort zone i know but he could get a big old block and 4 walls at for example bomaderry, be within 20 minutes drive to some of the best waves on the east coast and all that for the deposit he was willing to spend on his crack den.

Now again id like to say that i completely agree that income vs house prices have exponentially grown over the years and house prices now are nothing short of rude but i dont personally believe evertyhing that the media tells me and i have some other observations that dont make the news stories; back in the days of chivalry, it was unheard of for a woman to go out and work. so you now have 2 incomes servicing 1 mortgage. there was no subsidised childcare back in the day. new cars were FAR more expensive compared to annual income back then and whilst i havent seen any stats i dont see p platers driving the equivalent of what we grew up on ie 15 year old camiras, geminis, dattos etc.

so heres my take on your take of my examples,

'Gazza goes bankrupt due to cross vesting of his 3 properties and enormous debt (our household debt is the highest per cap @ 135% GDP) and rising interest rates. (repayment will quickly double)'
in my example gazza was a street smart cocky [email protected]#$r who worked his arse off from day dot and made hay whilst the sun shined. he doesnt have enormous debt because he pretty much owes 200 on each of the bastards he bought cos he murdered his mortgages for half a decade before he started a family. He wouldnt have been silly enough not to put worst case scenario interest rates into his einstein calculations before buying additional joints.

so ill admit my examples had some holes in them and we could go arond the block for days talking about the variables of their situations. Ill wear as many stats as you can throw at me but ill stand by what i said initially, and even use your mates son as an example after(please dont think im being intentionally disrespectful just using him as an example), if you work hard and get started early there is still ample oppurtunity if you MUST have a house right now. so lets say your mates son jimmy did go and buy a 300 grand ex commission joint down on the outskirts of bomaderry and the interest rates double. Hell not be too bothered cos 10% of [email protected]#$ all is [email protected]#$ all and hell happily be surfing pipe every day without a worry in the world coming home to his big old ex commission joint in need of some TLC.

and as for mick having a chip on his shoulder 'cos nowhere else in the world buys investment properties like they do in australia', well guess what he lives in australia, were all playing in the same sandpit and at the moment thats just the way it is here, so he should either man up and do something about it or admit he shouldnt have had all those cheap darts back at coogee bay hotel in the early noughties. who knows, maybe it isnt his fault cos he wasnt taught the harsh realities by those who are supposed to teach him those things. Who knows maybe its not their fault either cos they couldnt foresee the future, but this is where we are at right now.

probably a bit harsh but hopefully i got my point accross. please keep in mid i know there are a thousand isntances where things like bad luck, circumstance, discrimination, upbringing, etc etc can effect the foundations of our arguments here.

floors back to u.

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tworules Saturday, 10 Dec 2016 at 9:20pm

insurance won't touch the bomaderry commission, but everyone else will thats out of work,and that ute full of tools that he takes to pipe will be gone before he gets dropped in on.Then he'll wish he could 'get back' to what it was like,but even thats gone, welcome home

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geoffrey Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 7:25am

bomaderry was just an example, 5000 other equivalent places around. think you've missed the point a bit. and if your saying you cant insure a property in bomaderry? dont think youve done your homework there mate.

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tworules Saturday, 10 Dec 2016 at 9:52pm

well he won't have to wait to get ripped off

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indo-dreaming Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 8:42am

Here's my pick of the day on reaslestate.com.au

15 Mason Point Road Eaglehawk Neck Tas 7179 $155,000 - $175,000

Only a 1 bedroom little shack, but hows the location right on the water and a quick drive to some of Tassie's best waves.

Would be an amazing place little holiday shack.

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udo Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 9:04am

Thats Braithys old spot....he did a stint there....climate near killed him i think.

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tworules Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 9:39am

the banjo will sound good thru the amp in that one

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Jamyardy Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 1:57pm

Interesting comments all round. On say 30 year loans, the $200k house would cost you 5 times it's original value where as the $950k house would only cost you about twice it's original value.

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geoffrey Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 2:58pm

something that has gone largely under the radar is minister hazzards (brad hazzard social service minister) pledge in about april to renew all 'housing estates' with a 70/30 mix over the next 10 years. in other words knocking them down and redeveloping them. now if you want an example of this urban renewal and i believe the model they are working off is minto in campbelltown. They are currently doing airds and claymore in campbelltown. this government probably wont be in for 10 years so i doubt itll go according to forecast but the writing is on the wall.

now, and ill give you this little gem for free, in the article http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/public-housing-all-of-nsws-est... they mention that they will be doing wollongong. whilst there is a [email protected]#$load of commission in wollongong there are only a handful of proper 'estates'. of which the vast majority have water views.... with 1 having about 7-10 meters between their front fences and the ocean..... and another 2 with uninterupted lake views and very close to good waves...... if you dig a bit deeper you can find an even bigger smoke signal which i havnet heard anyone talking about yet. in their current state they are absolute [email protected]#$holes and u should be able to pick up a shitter for alot less than anything in sydney.............. maybe tell your mates son to do some homework on this subject pillsy, id be happy to point him in the right direction.

ps. whether or not you agree with welfare, redevelopment, etc etc, that is a conversation for another day, just drawing attention to a possibly opportunity that might benefit someone willing to take a punt who had otherwise thought themselves priced out.

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dandandan Sunday, 11 Dec 2016 at 3:51pm

All around me the prices are going up. In Hobart there's been a marked increase in second and third homebuyers and mainland investors buying properties for rent. The scariest thing though is the number of people using AirBnB as their investment strategy. It's too new a trend for facts and figures, but anecdotally the rental market in Hobart has become very difficult and some community organisations are thinking the huge increase in AirBnB apartments has seen a decrease in the private rental market.

Just this morning I woke up in my van on the East Coast and a dog walking old bloke wanted a good chat. He was telling me how he bought 5 houses in the town and is renting them out on AirBnb: "All 5 of em booked out at $140 a night for the next 5 months!"... That's 5 houses taken out of the local rental market in a pretty low SES town. That's an opportunity only afforded to somebody who already has a lot of capital. That's a lot of capital that will be passed on to the next generation of dog-walking-old-bloke. I'm not that fazed because it's not really in my plan to settle down, but if I was trying to buy my first home I'd probably feel like the odds were stacked against me.

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mk1 Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 8:40am

All the very valid reasons that a crash is imminent were just as valid and imminenty 10 years ago, yet here we are with capital cities up maybe 50% again (maybe more?). That means that the shit is REALLY due to hit the fan, or we are missing something. I think we missed a massive monetary inflation that stayed outside of regular pay packets and prices. As the saying goes, when you have your bases covered, excess money goes into investment. The value of the currency has been eroded, it's just not evenly distributed.

House prices don't form part of inflation figures because if there are 2 options/alternatives (substitutes) for the one type of good (housing), the one with the lowest increase goes into the basket. Rents being the cheaper alternative.

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mk1 Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 6:48pm

I should add, we just went through the biggest financial cluster fk in about 80 years and property just blipped for a bit, losing a part of its gains. The evidence would suggest we are missing something rather than a big crash coming (because the powers that be need the wealth effect of property "increases")

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happyasS Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 7:33pm

what about the evidence that china is buying all our real estate. it might look like a bubble to us. but china has a big and growing wealthy population. i predict the bubble to grow, and grow, and grow......

heck, the chinese are likely putting their money into aussie real estate as a safehaven exactly because of the GFC. half of them arent even bothering to rent em out its so damn good.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 7:40pm

I thought it was a bit of fallacy that chinesse are the big buyers of realestate in Australia?

I thought there was many other nationalities from different countries that hold or are buying more Australian realestate?.

I might have to google it.

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happyasS Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 7:50pm

indo. im sure there are plenty of nationalities that take an interest. but china is dominating it.

those fuck tonne of apartment high rises being built in sydney all over the shop.....china.

i read somewhere that sydney currently has more construction than any city on earth. dubai excepted.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 7:52pm

Actually it seems like it is true Chinese are the biggest buyers from overseas in Australian realestate.

Must have been farmland where it's not true, i remember that guy on ABC Radio going on about how it is a myth.

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indo-dreaming Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 7:55pm
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happyasS Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 8:13pm

apartments sitting there unrented. im going to hazard a guess.....future homes for their kids while they study here.

its all good hey. soon we will have a generation of young people who

a. have no hope of ever buying a house
b. will be forced out of higher education by exorbitantly high prices pushed even higher as foreigners aim to fill up our unis.

tertiary education should be free btw. all of it.

edit: future generations that are both dumb AND poor

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indo-dreaming Monday, 12 Dec 2016 at 8:41pm

At the very least we should have a mirror type policy for foreigners who want to purchase real estate.

Where if the country they are from allows foreigners to buy their real estate then people from that country can purchase real estate in Australia, but if their country does not allow foreigners to purchase real estate then people from that country can not purchase real estate in Australia.

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mk1 Tuesday, 13 Dec 2016 at 7:25am

Happy, yes the expansion of money is global. Starts with the us being a net importer with a reserve currency. Usd goes offshore and becomes reserves in foreign central banks, allowing that country both expand domestically to serve us importation market and expand their money supply off the usd reserves.

I've seen some amazing property analysis, really well done, but missing that there's capital markets thousands of times bigger than the Australian economy peering in from the side lines. It's not just foreign nationals buying new apartments of course, it's family networks with a resident, commercial investment vehicles selling shares , illegal buys of second hand property, etc. it only takes a few sales at the margin to revalue everyone's property and create equity that can be drawn down as deposits in other parts of the country, creating the same effect. But the debt and money drawn down is real and liquidates/devalues the existing debt /money.

For Australians , money holds its value so we trust it as an asset, but for many other nations that trust isn't there, so money is a transaction medium foremost. It's just a bridge between real value items. You give it away for assets. So buying a property isn't necessarily about the roi or net profit . Particularly when you can get access to the money so easily.

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nomad1 Tuesday, 13 Dec 2016 at 11:21pm

Some interesting comments about the price of housing going up due to foreign investment. Ive lived outside Aus for 9 years now so I cant say much about prices there but the situation described seems to be similar to what Ive heard about Vancouver (although to a lesser scale). Due to its proximity to Asia and potentially some loopholes the place has become outrageously overpriced. Some of that is probably due to it being a great place to live but its undoubtedly exaggerated by Chinese investment.
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/30/vancouver-canada-house-pr...

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sypkan Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 1:08am

indod, I heard a different guy (probably) on abc radio talking about the chinese investor thing, and the governments investigation into it. he basically said the turnball government structured their whole inquiry so it could overlook a lot of investment, no doubt to placate national party farmer type voters.

he said their inquiry only looked at broad acre farms (big properties). therefore smaller farms were not included. this meant a lot of dairy farms and the like that the chinese are buying were not even counted, totally doctored statistics.

and while it showed chinese investors as a current percentage are tiny compared to our traditional investors - with poms and others being way higher-it ddidn't show the percentage of change. I'd like to see comparisons between which nationalities are the highest investors over the last 10 - 15 years. I think we'd see a very different story.

also, when there was a lot of chatter about the darwin port fiasco, the government downplayed the whole thing, emphasising it was private investors and nothing to worry about. that high up army general dude, who's no longer a dude, and now goes by the name of kate something, said that china being china, with it's own odd model of private investment, isn't really private investment at all, as the state has it's hand in everyone's business. he pointed out that while turnball and co. paint a certain picture, the reality is, there is no such thing as purely private investment, and that all this stuff going on is actually very strategic for god knows what bigger master plan they have.

and yep, rather than chinese renting for the period of a four year degree, may as well just buy something, as the rents are ridiculous, and the amount one pays over that period is astronomical. also, currently chinese government is clamping down on corruption so oz is a great place to hide your illegitimate cash. all these things mean there's a lot of cash sloshing around looking for somewhere to live. so as happy points out, maybe the boom will continue. unless the attention from trump and pauline puts a stop to it.

I'm all for that (of course) but I don't overly care though, as I have my piece of dirt. however, I think it's really dumb to sell our children's futures for short term gains, and as pointed out above, something is fundamentally wrong, when what was once middle income earners, like firemen, teachers etc. cannot even afford to live in our cities.

dumb dumb dumb, the aussie way

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floyd Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 7:41am

@nomad1

Is Vancouver the place where there are so many Chinese living there that certain suburbs the "unofficial" currency is Chinese? Was recently overseas myself and some Canadians I met were saying this about some place in Canada.

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nomad1 Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 8:44am

@floyd.

I´m no expert as ive only been there a handful of times. Last time was visiting a friend living there and what you heard is pretty similar to what my mate and his missus were saying. The article i linked to goes into how they think the house price thing has gone too far and what they are doing about it. time will tell if it works.

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floyd Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 1:08pm

@nomad1, thanks. all this was before trump's election but these Canadians were red hot annoyed about what was happening there, wanted strong government action and while they thought trump was a complete idiot thought what he had to say about immigration etc was spot on. interesting, we have it here too with divided nation. the article you linked is very interesting, i'm figuring our government is too spineless to do the same.

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batfink Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 4:13pm

Geoffrey, re your request for a debate, many of the points are exactly what is being postulated almost entirely by people who are over 60, who now have all the wealth. It is one of those arguments that looks to have some truth to it, on the surface it does, and will be accepted as reasonable by most, but doesn't stand any sort of analysis.

Mostly, the young these days are going overseas and buying cars because there is no option to buy real estate. The argument that they could leave Sydney and go and live in bullamakanka is baby boomer shite, none of them had to do that. And is that the argument being put here - you should leave home and go and live somewhere hundreds of kilometres away, just like none of us ever had to do!

Hypocrite, moi?

Sure, they bought a small place to start out, but back then there were lots of small places to buy, in fact they WERE ALL small places, that was the average home. Sure, they didn't spend up big on the latest mod cons, oh, except they all had cars and TV's and electricity and phones, which happened to be the 'mod cons' of the day.

The boomerist 'they're spoiled' argument is so much shite. They use to be able to buy a house, feed their wife and kids, of which they had 3 by the time they were 22 because the idea of a delayed family was both ridiculous and unnecessary, and they did it all on one wage, a tradesman's wage at that.

It's an argument with more holes than a colander, more holes than a north coast shark net.

The world has changed, the boomer generation don't recognise how much, have grandiose memories of how hard working they were (pubs weren't full every day from knock off time till they got home to make life miserable for the missus, no sirreee!)

It's mostly just demonisation of the younger generation and a complete misunderstanding of just how much change there has been and how hostile the world is to young people now, and old people not recognising all the things they had going for them that they take for granted, many of which have been taken away from the grandchildren, like free education, a worthwhile job that they could expect to still have in a week's time, no slave labour internships, actual trade unions that represented them, etc etc.

This was probably my favourite article for the whole year, it says it all so much better.

https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2016/march/1456750800/richard-cooke/...

"The lockout laws are not the closure of a few pubs because of drunken violence. They are final confirmation of who the country is run by, and who it is run for."

Baby boomers, that's who it's run for, and how they are squealing like stuck pigs even when they have it all. Those noisy, squealing, once in a millennium generation of the most privileged bastards ever who will kick and scream all the way to their grave, which will be forever away, because they are bequeathing another great thing to the next generation, a reduced life span, for probably the first time in recorded history.

Now, back to house prices.

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Sheepdog Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 8:03pm

I agree Batfink..... The boomers are the most hypocritical world fucking generation the world has ever had..... Don't freekn start me up, bro....... Or this thread will morph into "Lets kill the boomers" quicker than a ratings burst when Current affair has a story like "druggie bludgers blowing YOUR TAX".......

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goofyfoot Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 8:42pm

Far out thats a good post batfink

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stunet Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 9:23pm

Brilliant post BF, agree with it all, even dig the rhythm and cadence you had going there....

But!

Without putting too fine a point on it, wouldn't you fall into the Baby Boomer age bracket? Maybe the back end of it, perhaps?

Just curious if you're being a traitor to your generation.

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Sheepdog Wednesday, 14 Dec 2016 at 11:00pm

Stunet..... Well the "age bracket"..... The boomer gave themselves 1946 to 1964.... 18 years..... But they split everyone else up into 12 year allotments.... That was their first, and probably most evil trick... Strength in numbers.... The post ww2 baby boom was well over by the late 50s..... And tell me, how can an 18 yo in 1964 , dressed in his army greens heading off to vietnam, be considered the same generation as his little baby nephew?

Strength in numbers...... Thnakfully I scrape into gen x..... But gen x really should be 1960 onwards... Even Billy Idol, lead singer of gen x, would now be considered a baby boomer. Fuckn work that out..

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tonybarber Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 8:29am

BF, not sure if you are a son of migrant or know of any migrants, but have you thought how the Snowy scheme was built and by whom. Are there any migrants in rural Aus ? If you get a chance, watch the Old Men of Wood and Foam. Did hear them whinging about young blokes. They just had a go. Sure there are memories of old boards but geez, I would not want to ride one today. Lock out laws - you might want to ask St Vincent's Hospital Emergency ward on that one - nothing to do with ones age.

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mk1 Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 8:38am

The thing that pisses me off is that there has been massive monetary inflation benefiting asset holders but economists are fixated on wage prices not increasing. It's precisely because the money spigot has gone to those who don't need it and don't spend it that wages and consumer prices haven't increased. Just so long as inflation doesn't turn up in the regular productive economy, you can do what you want on the side lines with assets, debt and capital.

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geoffrey Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 5:30pm

Batfink!! thanks for the contest mate im up for the challenge!

I agree with bits of what you say but completely stand by my main points from my last 3 posts ill get onto why in a sec. Firstly id like to disclaim that im not an over 60 baby boomer, i'm gen Y, and worked my absolute [email protected]$t out to get all that i have, havent been given anything except the first home owners grant and first home owners stamp duty exemption. essentially i would say that im one of the young people that you say the boomers are whinging about.

Sure, the boomers have alot of the wealth but id say thats more of an observation than a revelation or a problem. Given that wealth builds up over time its logical that this would be the case and unavoidable really. Take a look at the 90 year old granny that every town has with the last red brick house right on the beach surrounded by units and shops probably sitting on a 2-3 million bucks totally oblivious of her surroundings and tending her roses. Shes pre baby boomers .

Both our arguments might be full of holes like a colander cos its gonna be heavily influenced by our experiences and our heritage i suppose. The baby boomer element in my family were migrants and yes, they did have to move where the work and cheap houses were. Actually so did my parents for that matter and so did i. Working in sydney and not being able to afford to buy in sydney back then i had to find other ways of making it all work. (blessing in disguise in the end)

Why should people get their desired area/setup straight off the bat? As outlined in my earlier posts there is still ample opportunity if you want to get into the market RIGHT NOW. As stated earlier also property isnt the only type of investment. And as for the young these days that are going overseas and buying cars because there is no option to buy real estate, thats absolute rubbish mate. Surely someone can explain to them the difference between an asset and an investment. Or total disregard for either and going on constant holidays. I cringe every time i see a p plater in a brand new falcon back windscreen covered in stickers knowing its probably a full car loan and theres a good chance that theyll wrap it around a pole and be financially stuffed for quite a while.

Were in a unique situation at the moment with all the factors mentioned earlier in this thread ie low interest rates, foreign investment, wages vs house price historical highs etc etc, but this is where we are right now. Some people will sit around whinging about the baby boomers and how they cant buy a house on the beach at bondi and some will put their head down and [email protected]#$n make it work. And as for the world being cruel to young people, hmmm. yes ill agree that this world is completely different and changed and some of us might have trouble understanding them but id say its still pretty even. Again may be personal experiences. And im only 10 years older than them.

And as for lockout laws, thats getting a bit too far over my head haha. Im just a bloke with an overactive mind who enjoys trying to outsmart the pack and make a bit of extra coin on the side. Which is also why i have no sympathy for those who wont get off their bums and help themselves.

back to u brother

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mk1 Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 5:44pm

"Im just a bloke with an overactive mind who enjoys trying to outsmart the pack and make a bit of extra coin on the side"

Not to wade into you and batfinks thing but just remember, you are an exception. Just like the dumb arse p-plater with new ute but the other way. The average person trying to have a reasonable life, maybe raise a family, look after their parents, enjoy their sport or interests and just do their job is the bulk in the middle, and they are pretty screwed. And to be honest, life would be pretty shit if everyone was trying to live as the exception, i'd be booking a ticket to somewhere overseas in no time ;)

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geoffrey Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 6:05pm

haha so your saying you dont wanna come live next door mate? too exceptional? point taken but i dont think your giving people enough credit there... maybe an ad campaign for the masses explaining that buying a house at the top of the house price cycle isnt the best idea, could help be the catalyst for the price correction we seek??

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mk1 Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 6:26pm

If there was a town of money accumulating grafters and a town of Ute driving idiots, I'd choose to live with the idiots. At least then youd get a better chance with the chicks, even if they were rougher.

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mk1 Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 6:27pm

.

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geoffrey Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 6:31pm

haha grafters slay the chics. but calling them grafters kind of sounds like your refering to old english street urchins, pickpocket types.

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mk1 Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 6:57pm

Wasn't sure what else to say... what did you say: "i'm gen Y,and worked my absolute [email protected]$t out"

what is the term for that?

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geoffrey Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 7:25pm

street urchin...

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Sheepdog Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 7:36pm

Geoffrey...... You write;
"havent been given anything except the first home owners grant and first home owners stamp duty exemption."............... Well there's at least 20K...... Not bad middle class welfare right there.....

"Take a look at the 90 year old granny that every town has with the last red brick house right on the beach surrounded by units and shops probably sitting on a 2-3 million bucks totally oblivious of her surroundings and tending her roses. Shes pre baby boomers"................. Mate, honestly....... How many of them are left? Most of them can no longer afford the rates... I remember not so long ago when it was all over the news how original old pensioners in Currumbin were being squeezed out...

"Why should people get their desired area/setup straight off the bat?"...... Why the hell shouldn't they? Why should families be split up? It never happened pre 2001...... Why should basic shelter be a trading chip? It all actually changed with your home owners grant being introduced, Geoff..... Before 2001, a house was just a house..... Shelter..... The long term goal of the government will be to slowly over time include the home as an asset, therefore your old lady tending the roses will have to sell up, coz she wont have a pension..... Make 300k houses worth 1.5m, then get the old folk outta there..... Even though it's their spiritual home..

Lockout laws...... Ok..... Sydney is now an international joke.... Laughing stock... All those jobs gone.... No bands like INXS or the oils coming through..... Would paris have lock out laws? New York? Las vegas? Berlin? No....... They realize it brings in money, taxes....... So they use those taxes to HAVE MORE POLICE in the nightlife areas..... They have SMOKERS bars where people get chilled on nicotine..... But not the christian nanny state with Bairds liberal taliban.....

ps - remember the days of smoking at the pub? One hand was holding a drink... The other a durry... Someone bumped you and spilled your drink..... "Sorry mate"....... Everyone was chilled by the blanket of north american peace pipe smoke..... And you didn't have a fist free.... You'd have to put either your drink or ciggy down........ So it was "yeah no worries mate"....... "here let me buy ya one for spillin' it"......" Oh cheers mate.. Where ya from?.... "Up from Coffs.. Robbo's the Name"..... Cheers, Robbo... Sheepdog. been gettin a few waves down there?"

End of rant.... lol

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geoffrey Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 7:52pm

hey sheepdog, i liked your rant. had passion. and far better punctuation and english than i can produce.

now that ive been enlightened that im an exception i wont bother debating, ill just clear up 2 of your rebuttals. my comment on the 90 year old was merely an example of how wealth accumulates over time. thats pretty much just the nature of it. sad to hear currumbin guys were conning old ladies, those gold coast guys are [email protected]#ts. i have heard houses are cheap up there though.... Secondly, i still just cant agree with you that you should be able to get your 'keeper' straight off the bat. just not something im gonna see eye to eye with people on. just seems a bit too entitled to me. I also dont think that anything pre 2001 should effect the decisions of people my age cos we were not close, or even remotely close to being in the market then and i think its irrelevant when looking at current situation and how to best deal with it.

cheers mate

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Hastoes Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 7:54pm

Pricing families out of buying a potential home is wrong in my opinion. Its destroying the social fabric and freedom that we have fought world wars for, and i believe it has a lot to do with the majority of mental depression and issues within the family unit. A distorted form of slavery is happening right now. Its catch 22 for people without the funds. Either work your arse off and sacrifice(to suffer loss of, give up, renounce, injure, or destroy especially for an ideal, belief, or end)the family time, lie cheat and steal is another option( morally or legally or illegally), or rent. And to what end? Selfish dog eat dog policies will destroy Australia as we know it, like it or not. The idea of making happiness for everybody,making money from peoples homes, for the great of oneself and your own family ,in this current format is a greater lie than all the religions put together. By the way I'm not against religion, just the idea that you can make money off it!!!!

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floyd Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 8:24pm

Nah, anyone that says its not harder now "is dreamin".

HECs debts while boomers got it for free after Whitlam.

Contracted casual, part-time or full-time employment when boomers had secure full-time work.

Boomers could buy a house on one wage while these days its two wages plus a part-time one.

Child care fees are through the roof while boomers could sit that out until the kids went to school.

Increased population and investor orientation in the housing market where as boomers could pick and choose where they lived.

Some boomers were able to access their superannuation and retire or transition to retirement at aged 55 where as the superannuation/pension access age is increasing to 70 years!!

@sheepy, you mention Paris, well I was there recently and I can absolutely assure you if Australians drank like the French there wouldn't be any need for lock out laws here, not in a 1,000 years. Its not big brother but the imbecile drinker that's the problem.

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happyasS Thursday, 15 Dec 2016 at 9:44pm

lock out laws have nothing to do with freedom, big brother or any of that crap. the notion of drinking to "get drunk" as dick size competition with your mates starts at a very early age. the laws are there simply to try and address moronic behaviour resulting from excess consumption without imposing unfair controls on folk out to have a good time.

personally id rather not see the lock out laws and would prefer to see proper punishments, but that costs the taxpayer heavily and still leaves people fearful on the streets. punishments are no deterrent to drunks.

the problem starts with the family unit. parents who drink heavily in front of their kids from a young age. and then ignore the warning signs when they discover their kids out getting drunk. do nothing because they think its normal, or wont do anything without feeling hypocritical.

if alcohol was a "new" drug, just released today there is no way it would be deemed legal. my parents never taught me about sensible drinking limits and neither did any of my mates parents. and so as heavily competitive teens we did what lots do. compete. compete at the pool table. compete in the surf. compete at the bar.

i see on the streets today, little has changed.

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Hastoes Friday, 16 Dec 2016 at 12:18am

This land grab for prosperity is going to cost this this country , its going to rock its foundation to its core. Homes to the average Australian ,make us tick. You take away that, then what do we have left ? Bring back the balance

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Hastoes Friday, 16 Dec 2016 at 12:25am

seriously were not talking about lock out laws here , we are talking about buying a house for your family you dicks. lets not distort the issue , family homes so our kids can be happy.

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batfink Friday, 16 Dec 2016 at 9:04am

A considered and thoughtful response Hastoes. Well played, Sir!