Turnbull rolls over "again" to the ultra right

Of course I don't condone what happened with hsu, why would I? But that's just a deflection my question was pertinent to the current government and why they keep adopting policies like the one mentioned here that directly take jobs off low and middel income earners in spite of the jobs rhetoric.

tonybarber wrote:

Interesting that despite all the points of issue and ridicule towards Abbott and the Libs in this forum I still get the feeling Shorty and the Labs just don't know what to do. The china FTA , the union royal commission, Kathryn Jackson - they just cannot feel what is going on. And that is a big problem. Talk to your local Labor member.

i was concerned about this too tony as u mention, but i can assure u there is a lot going on behind the scenes in the labor party at the moment and it is good, very good indeed,
so much so, i am going to vote for them
yes, read they have satisfied all my requests re renewable energy funding, remember, not about climate change, about pollution, energy efficiency and technological advancement that works with nature, creates new industries and leaves the world a better place for our kids and animal kids.

Glad to see you've finally come out Flog..only 4yrs and 53 pages to admit being a labor supporter..you are admitting it right?
If Abbott was Gillard he woulda cried MYSOGONY ages ago..but he's not. He's a brawler.Like him or hate him he makes you have an opinion on something..dunno what Billy makes me do?Listening to him is Like staring at the wall all day. He just has no charisma or any life about him when he speaks. might as well be talking about his favourite sandwiches that his mother in law just made for him..nobody listens..back to me rock

Agree, manbat we need every job we can muster. We need to acknowledge that the car industry was not shut down by Abbott but started back with Senator Button. Even the previous labor cut it also. Good to see subs being built in SA. Also why not jobs for Rocky and Glady in Qld in coal. Shorty will pass the China FTA . But he is a puppet and he is told to play hard ball.
Don't forget this government has helped small business and they employ the most.

If playing hardball means some signing off that jobs for Australian workers should be preferential then t/a should play hardball as well

'yes, read they have satisfied all my requests re renewable energy funding, remember, not about climate change, about pollution, energy efficiency and technological advancement that works with nature, creates new industries and leaves the world a better place for our kids and animal kids.'

Sweet Dave, great news.

How does that go down with the CFMEU?

Its called they fed him bullshit zen

Manbat, I am sure your aware that Hawke and the Labor premiers want it. The condition that ACTU stated were already in the FTA. Shorty is not playing hard ball. The puppet jumps when told.
Good luck davetherave on your renewables. Technically not achievable in a 20 year period.

Plenty of people want the fda, plenty don't, even you would agree that the better safe guards in place for Australian workers is an optimal outcome. Play hardball

hey manbat, TB doesn't answer questions just hoists red herrings up the flag pole to see who bites.

you're dead right there floyd, he just talks around and over amy question that don't suit his supposed lefty labor agenda.

it's a lot like a tony a press conference, journalists asks a pertinent question the public would love an answer to, tony a replies with a unrelated answer that talks about something labor did three years ago.

could tony b really really be tony a perusing swellnet for his next kooky outing and working a bit of politics at the same time??

the HSU things wearing a bit thin tony, you've flogged it almost as much as the coal dead horse. might be time to talk about you truck driver mate again.

or if you're really want to impress your fans answer one or two of the more than reasonable questions that have been put to you. we don't expect a straight answer but staying close to topic would be appreciated

The original post I made was just to point out the hypocracy in the jobs rhetoric, to combat the sloganeering all you can do is keep pointing out what lies they are.

Manbat, I can see your point. As stated, we are finding it hard to compete with low wages from Asia. But the rhetoric from the unions and Shorty looking after us workers is worse. Sure we don't condone HSU but there is more rubbish from the unions yet to come out. Interesting to see how some here have already forgotten the HSU issue. Say that to the ambos. BTW I agree let's not put at risk the seafarers jobs. This of course has not been approved. Not sure what 'safeguards' your referencing but if Hawke and the labor premiers have not checked the agreement, then what does that imply.

There are built in loop holes in the FTA to allow the Chinese to bring in their own workers and undercut wages and conditions, Abbott could easily close them but refuses to acknowledge their existence. he is lying through his teeth and everyone knows it. Work choices by stealth.
@ tonybarber I haven't heard of any official announcement re building the subs in Adelaide. Abbott wanted to send billions of dollars to Japan to make them but because the Libs in S.A. would be decimated he is starting to have second thoughts, some say the deal with the Japs was stitched up long ago but he will keep it quiet till after the election. Correct me if I'm wrong.

tonybarber wrote:

Manbat, I am sure your aware that Hawke and the Labor premiers want it. The condition that ACTU stated were already in the FTA. Shorty is not playing hard ball. The puppet jumps when told.
Good luck davetherave on your renewables. Technically not achievable in a 20 year period.

tonybarber- thats a big call brother, how do you know this- if u do- please give me sat lotto numbers- maybe u can become famous as the queer seer-just joking mate
but u are incorrect, technology all available and more coming all the time.

barley wrote:

Its called they fed him bullshit zen

its all bullshit barley. but some smells worse than others and promises are sure to broken, but when you are smart, u can get what u want.
i want the clean energy corp to stay and hemp to be farmed commercially. i want aussie jobs in industries that dont pollute and i want regional australia to be a focus
bullshit barley, but my shit dont stink!

barley wrote:

Its called they fed him bullshit zen

its all bullshit barley. but some smells worse than others and promises are sure to broken, but when you are smart, u can get what u want.
i want the clean energy corp to stay and hemp to be farmed commercially. i want aussie jobs in industries that dont pollute and i want regional australia to be a focus
bullshit barley, but my shit dont stink!

6. Throughout space there is energy. Is this energy static or kinetic! If static our hopes are in vain; if kinetic — and this we know it is, for certain — then it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheelwork of nature. Experiments With Alternate Currents Of High Potential And High Frequency (February 1892)
who said this? he knew his stuff-

Senator Abetz has a fine German pedigree floyd. His Uncle Otto Abetz was a prominent member of the NAZI party and was Hitlers ambassador to France during WW2.

This from Wikipedia- A grand-nephew, Eric Abetz, is a Liberal member of the Australian Senate and an Australian cabinet minister. Another grand nephew, the Reverend Peter Abetz, is a member of the Western Australian Legislative Assembly, also representing the Liberal Party.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Abetz

Davetherave...I believe Labor has aimed for 50 percent renewables by 2030, less than 20 years. Sounds good and all very warm and fuzzy. But here in Aus, the base load will not be to supplied with wind or solar. Nuclear at this stage is not an option. Granted its makes us all feel warm and helping our little spaceship earth, but not in 15 years. Don't mention the costs alone. Great to be optimistic but heh let's be real.
Olddog, my apologies, your right. It's ships not subs !! I stand corrected.

there everywhere else.

it was a bit of a perfect storm that eventually killed off the car industry. cheap imports, changing tastes, high aussie dollar and relatively low unemployment thanks to the mining boom. abbotts government really put all their chickens in one basket.

their ideology and contempt for unions made their decision which didn't seem overly ridiculous to many at the time ( it did to me). they failed to see changes on the horizon. the mining boom finishing, falling aussie dollar, rising unemployment, and holden changing the models (10 years too late, but they were getting there). all these things were well under way when abbott let this happen, but they were blinded by ideology and disdain for real workers.

even at it's best the mining industry employss few people, machines do all the work, with some pleb being overpaid to oversee proceedings. even though manufacturing is well and truly mechanised, it takes a lot more plebs to oversee proceedings, these plebs will never get such high paying jobs again, condemned to the dole queues, and they weren't that high paid anyway, most of them worked long hours to scratch close to an average wage, a real average wage, $50 000 not that ridiculous $80 000 figure. oh well pay them the dole and have them contribute nothing to the economy....nice one abbott and hockey

now we have little coming from iron ore, coal is fucked and manufacturing is gone. the dollar is almost 70 US cents, a value that made exporting cars viable, yes that's right exporting. I literally saw an afternoon shift cut and exports to the US and middle east stop as our dollar climbed. you didn't need to be a visionary to see this stuff, you just needed to be practical and pliable, adaptable, something abbott is incapable of.

now we have a perfect storm making manufacturing viable, bit it's too late, because abbott couldn't resist an opportunity to kick the unions

greens leader on bolt report, this guy is a bloody legend, biily boy and co. better watch out, the greens are gonna steal their thunder!!.... not that they have displayed any to date. while I was impressed that nick xenophon was doing labor's job again in floyd's article, I'm thinking I could almost put the greens above nick x with this new guy.

I particularly like how he doesn't see modern politics with the left vs. right thing, and he schooled up bolt on such things.

bolt had a good point though about the picture of the boy that has everyone so outraged at the moment, apparently not a rrefugee at all, yet the advocates overlook such details to push an agenda, things are not as simple as they seem, which is the point the greens guy made at the end, everyone is pushing their bullshit, both sides need to stop with the emotional bullshit and look at the facts, there are refugees and there are financial refugees, rich countries cannot accomodate everyone in the current circumstances

http://m.

I have never sat and watched Bolt, or felt the urge to, however in a beer induced fog on Sunday I flicked around and came across it. Di Natale was impressive in his responses and putting his point across. Conversational and firm in his views, which stands him out from the myriad politicians on both sides talking in soundbites. More like him, of various ideals and we could have a robust political sphere.

Ah, gents, please ... If the greens are going to increase their support (as you quite rightly say above) then where do think they would get most their votes from ? And the impact of that is ....

TB wrote
Ah, gents, please ... If the greens are going to increase their support (as you quite rightly say above) then where do think they would get most their votes from ? And the impact of that is ....

Well both the mayor parties will bleed primary vote but particularly the Libs. Take a look at the attached link, Nick Xenophon is on the move & well respected like Bob Brown (Greens). Why do you reckon Abbott keeps visiting SA every month ! Simple, Christopher Pyne & Jamie Briggs & with Andrew Southcott now retiring (all SA Liberal) they know they could lose up to 11 federal seats in SA alone ! Game over for the Libs, way too many broken promises - homemade subs, broken car industry, it looks like a train wreck for Abbott in SA.

Phil Coorey (veteran journalist) nailed it when he said I quote "Abbott simply doesn't get the AFL states"

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-07/independent-senator-nick-xenophon-...

Cheers Johno
PS - I'm quite chuffed, I think we may be finally ready to see some decent alternate political parties & lets not forget Clive Palmer who has put his hand up to run in 2016.

I'm not so certain Johno, I would think more Labor voters would move to the Greens than Libs. As much as Di Natale resisted Bolt's attempt to define where they sat on the political spectrum, most people would identify with them as left of centre and the votes would subsequentluymove that way. It's been a long time since the Libs housed a significant number of progresive, small L liberals. I'd say the numbers started dwindling around 1996.

I think it's important to remember that it is a team that gets things done, not just one person. While I have always liked the greens, i am unsure as to what they will bring to the table on an overall basis.
also think there seems to be an emphasis on looking at the past and they will have royal commissions left , right, and centre.
show me more about what they are going to do to assist us all going forward and i may change my support to assist them, but at the moment, they are like janus, one head looking forward, but one head always looking back-too much.

Many of you may not remember Don Chipp and his Democrats. Arguably small l liberals. I suggest stunet is right and Greens votes would come from Labor. With Sarah Hanson Young I agree with davetherave - not a good team. Hence where does that place Labor with Shorty as the lead.

you would have to say generally the greens would steal more votes fro labor, however abbott is so on the nose reasonable liberal voters wull be looking for somewhere to put their vote. with the new guy not off with the fairies, and actually talking about economy and stuff they could be an option even for liberals, this is what abbott and many on here do nitt understand, there are a heap of liberal voters who do care about the environment and even social justice, they just have different ideas how to address social issues.

interesting arricle there johnno, nick x also talking about people being sick and tired of the left versus right thing, finally we're getting somewhere.

I hate to put you on the spot johnno, as Iit seems people dont like to air such things, but I'm interested why you are advocating clive palmer, just a general comment? or do you think he's alright?

I think for the crackpot he used to display himself as, he has shown a reasonable position on most issues. he's still a self serving power tripping meglamaniac, but a meglamaniac who has showed considered positioning on most issues.

just interested because as a labor party man you seem rti be advocating for the greens and even clive!

tonybarber wrote:

Many of you may not remember Don Chipp and his Democrats. Arguably small l liberals. I suggest stunet is right and Greens votes would come from Labor. With Sarah Hanson Young I agree with davetherave - not a good team. Hence where does that place Labor with Shorty as the lead.

I disagree, the Greens have a formidable team in Di Natale, Milne, Bandt, and even Ludlam.

gotta agree stunet, they have quite a team going on at the momment, kind of a coming of age, to be fair to milne I think she is a very good member too, just a little uninspiring as a leader. I see you left ms. hanson young out Iof your list, any particular reason? as she is one of their best known members

It funny to see people like tb and Dave floundering around trying to make sense of politics beyond the liberal and labor myths. Everything you guys have said about the greens reads likes its straight from this mornings lib/lab press release. Good onya stu for pointing out the obvious, the greens have strong players, there's few in parliament ATM that could match the people at the top of the greens, certainly no one on the front bench.

Green voters come from across the spectrum...25% swing against lib/nat in ballina at the last state election, where did these votes come from tb? Your clowning yourself to keep spouting the b/s, oh they have no policies, no team, looking backwards blah blah.

sypkan wrote:

gotta agree stunet, they have quite a team going on at the momment, kind of a coming of age, to be fair to milne I think she is a very good member too, just a little uninspiring as a leader. I see you left ms. hanson young out Iof your list, any particular reason? as she is one of their best known members

Yeah there is a reason. I think she's the least effective of the Greens in the Senate. She's not a very good debater, struggles to get her point across without getting mired in trivial matters, and often falls back to left/right, good/bad dichotomies when under pressure. I've no doubt she's a 'progressive' thinker but up there in front of the camera and microphones she appears to flounder. 

tonybarber wrote:

Many of you may not remember Don Chipp and his Democrats. Arguably small l liberals. I suggest stunet is right and Greens votes would come from Labor. With Sarah Hanson Young I agree with davetherave - not a good team. Hence where does that place Labor with Shorty as the lead.

My father was a co founder with Don re' democrats.... As a young boy, I used to go with my dad to Don's place for dinner.... He was a great man...... The dems went down the drain when he retired... Natasha the Meg fucked it....

spykan wrote
"I hate to put you on the spot johnno, as Iit seems people dont like to air such things, but I'm interested why you are advocating clive palmer, just a general comment? or do you think he's alright?

I think for the crackpot he used to display himself as, he has shown a reasonable position on most issues. he's still a self serving power tripping meglamaniac, but a meglamaniac who has showed considered positioning on most issues.

just interested because as a labor party man you seem rti be advocating for the greens and even clive!"

Hi mate, I've got a lot of time for Clive
1stly how many politicians globally donate there political wage to charity - apparently Clive does !
Brilliant !

Of course the tyre kickers say well he would do that to buy favour but that's way too simplistic.
Clive is big, ugly & smart enough to literally buy any political party in Aust except Labor.

Australian politics needs characters otherwise it looks pretty bland, even Jacki Lambi has her place.
These minority pollies in the senate are a litmus / sniff test for the bigger parties regarding policies.

Yep love the Labor party but there's plenty of wriggle room for the Nick Xylophone's of the world.
He's a centralist & we need more thinkers like that.

Cheers Johno
PS - Stu I think you have missed my point regarding Sth Aust & liberal discontent. Even retiring veteran Liberal member Andrew Southcott (seat of Mayo) basically said Abbott would be crucified politically in SA if those subs go offshore. Compounded by state Labor premier Jay Weatherill targeting federal Libs in SA, a very feral situation for Abbott, very Sth Oz.

good onya johnno, didn't know clive did that, the charity thing, good on him, couldn't agree more with your other comments.

very interesting stunet, I thought you were a left/right good/bad kind of guy. nice to hear, there's hope yet. I thought you were avoiding young because she is disliked and an easy target for the tonybarbers of this world.

gotta agree manbat about your comments about the major parties brainwashing the public, and how barber and dave sound like tried old arguments (no offence dave) (offence tony) but I tend to agree with dave regarding the calls for royal commissions etc., yorksurfer summed it up well we need to put this sorry chapter of oz politics behind us and get on with the repairing unfortunately my mates still argue a vote for independents or greens is a "wasted vote". this couldn't be further from the truth. oz politics is maturing I reckon, with independents offering more than a special interest (even though that's how xemophon got his start) wilke, xenophon, oakshotte, lambe, palmer etc. have all contributed much more to oz politics than either major party for a long time now,

hopefully we've gone through a pimply erratic irrational teenager stage and we are entering a new place where the major parties do not dominate anymore

...and we might just get Tony Windsor back.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-windsor-poised-to-challenge-barnaby-joyce-for-new-england-20150902-gjde6t.html

Manbat...I find it difficult to believe that the Greens can be a viable alternate government. We have Tasmania as a good example the problems caused by their policies. Sure, they make you feel warm and fuzzy but in reality it just doesn't fly. They certainly have come along way since Milne left and Natale is leader but more is needed.
The Windsor / Barnaby choice is an interesting one but Windsor is on his own.
Xenophon will most likely have more success. His team would take voters off both Libs and Labor, I suggest.

'Warm and fuzzy but doesn't fly', the world has moved beyond that tb, the importance of green issues are no longer dismissed as warm and fuzzy, from global economics to local environmental politics green issues are front and center.

The greens are able to form a viable government in the same sense as the major parties, they already form an important part of the mix in parliment and contribute to policy. They've become an increasingly important part of the political mix.

Barnaby not a chance against Windsor if he runs

Haha Windsor and oakshott were flogs