Do you like or hate Donald Trump, and why?
The irony being that MAV was telling the truth and Iceman was an envious , less adept conformist who didn’t believe it was possible because it was beyond his experience and talent.
Bit of an own goal that one, mate.
Looking forward to Top Gun 2 though. I don’t give a fuck how corny it is , I dug seeing the first at the movies just for the flight scenes. I always wanted to be a fighter pilot when I was a kid .
The whole discipline thing was a bit of a hurdle though.
Facto - You love taking the piss out of what I do and you’re forever disbelieving . But I’ve noticed you’ve never described a SINGLE thing from your own life. Not even owning up to any political opinions. Just alluding to some and pillorying any others who are honest enough to describe their own truths.
That’s how I knew you were Shatner . When I asked for a straight yes or no answer to a puffball question a couple of times and you did the ol’ Shatner obfuscation song and dance .
"...But I’ve noticed you’ve never described a SINGLE thing from your own life. Not even owning up to any political opinions."
Yep, as they say, stands out like dog's balls. He's not alone though. There's a few on here that bag everything, yet give no opinion or position whatsoever, anytime, ever.
Even with direct questioning. Nothing, move on, change the subject. Or, denigrate, distract and divert.
I'd say they've all been brainwashed by alinsky 101...but that would be too seppo.
If it quacks like a...
"Yocal - I think it’s a disrespect for people as a whole .
Isolating the disrespect for women is superfluous .
Strange how people get all bent out of shape if you claim to be a racist or sexist. They think it’s the true extent of horror. Yet you can tell the world youre a misanthrope and they’ll happily overlook it."
We agree that Trump is disrespectful to people as a whole. So then is his behavior misogynistic? BB only goes after Trumps disrespectful behavior toward women and not Trumps own personal drivers for that behavior. Trump is a role model for many and also currently represents the American People on the global stage.
I'm only driving this point because I think it ties in with my questions to Blob about whether he thinks it is OK to support someone wholly, and ignore morally corrupt behavior because on the balance they are achieving some sense of 'good'.
I would argue that holding each other to account is inherently 'good'. where it all falls apart is when people only do it to those they despise of already, and we are instinctively wary of admitting any fault of our own.
To your point on telling people that you hate humanity in general. If I declared I was a sexist and a racist (and a certain part of me is) would people do any more than show their disgust? Probably not, but if I acted out my hatred and marginalised or assaulted others, I think I would be chastised or imprisoned. The only example I can think of is the Colombine massacres where the attackers decided that humanity itself was a waste that should be exterminated. That might be too extreme a scenario to make my point, but it must be the upper limit example of how our behaviour is much more appalling than declaring our beliefs.
Westofthelake
You just commented on my comment by saying you don't read my comments.
Who writes your material?
Yocal
It's not that complex.
I haven't excused any of Trumps failings, but I have pointed to the hypocrisy of his accusers, and recognising his actual achievements.
Worry about your own conscience.
.
I am interested in your conscience blob, because I consider your steady method of pointing to hypocrisy is a means of avoiding a rational assessment of the subject that has been questioned = Trump's actual behaviour. I know for sure that other people behave inappropriately too, so i'm not as interested in that in this conversation.
And agree, absolutely no problem with recognising someone's achievements. Trump has done some good. I would question whether on the balance he has improved the world or created divide. But how can you measure something like that.
Blow In, a Top Gun fan?! Wow! There's a surprise. Were you Goose, Maverick or Sling Blade? Hang on, wrong film.
Actually, Top Gun is the one film I could never watch through start-to-end. Back then, obviously - I was too old for it...y'know, a teenager - but not even later in all its unintentional comedy gold, homo-erotic glory.
Anyway...
"But I’ve noticed you’ve never described a SINGLE thing from your own life. Not even owning up to any political opinions."
Yo Sypkan, regarding your...
"I'd say they've all been brainwashed by alinsky 101...but that would be too seppo."
Damn skippy, dude.
Waaaay too Seppo.
OK Facto .
Are you for or against a Big Australia ?
One word answer.
42
"Even with direct questioning. Nothing, move on, change the subject. Or, denigrate, distract and divert." - Sypkan
From the 8th Oct, me to you, Blow In (and anyone else):
"Actually, I'll throw this out there. Immigration of all stripes stripped back. The gains as you see them from whatever perspective you espouse and/or share?
Who is pro Big Australia? What is pro Big Australia?
Serious question. But run with the first part if you wish. The gains as you see them."
10th Oct, me to you, Blow In (and anyone else):
K.I.S.S?
"Actually, I'll throw this out there. Immigration of all stripes stripped back. The gains as you see them from whatever perspective you espouse and/or share?"
Again, on 10th Oct. Me to you:
"OK, you don't read. We've established that.
Maybe go back to my previous posts highlighting the utter hypocrisy of the one-side of government that actively creates 'skills shortages', encourages and promotes 'immigration' (but don't call it that!) to fill this spurious gap (hey! it's all good for business!), whilst at the same time vilifying asylum seekers and immigrants (those real ones that stick out!), and waving flags about, and playing up good ol' boy oi! oi! 'nationalism' and what is and isn't 'Australian/un-Australian'.
You frame a question that is narrow, simplistic, wrong-headed, and that is part of the problem.
Have a think, and give us something that outlines YOUR position on immigration, what it is (to you), why it troubles you so, and how 'fixing' it will work for us all.
Here's your platform. We're interested."
Me in response to your non-answer to that:
"Ha ha! Wait, let me get this straight-ish.
You want me to trawl back through your voluminous output (I assume it's so...you seem to be on here every day) on this thread (or whatever number of threads that have touched upon this topic, let alone any specific ones?!) to find your position on immigration (that you're too reluctant to share at this time even though it seems to be your big issue/bête noire), what immigration is (to you), why it troubles you so, and how 'fixing' it will work for us all?"
*crickets*
And Blow In, take this discussion elsewhere if you wish. This thread is dumb and icky.
I mean, the thread question is like something Donald would think up in its binary dumbness.
Blob ......
How much history do you know of the Trump Family?
Do you seriously think Trump is a Christian ?
Stormy was a one night stand , how about the 1 year affair with the playboy bunny?
What great things do you think Trump has done for the USA?
So Trump publicly exchanges insults with a porn star which he allegedly had sex with while his wife was giving birth to their son and had his lawyer (who confessed) pay hush money to "Horseface" during an election campaign, then Trump lied about every aspect.
Don't government administrations require moral authority to govern?
Is Trump morally bankrupt or is it the US is morally bankrupt letting him continue?
If they got rid of every politician who’s done or said something suspect there’d be about 99 percent less politicians in the world.
I’m not saying that’s a bad thing.
Ifocus
"Don't government administrations require moral authority to govern?
Is Trump morally bankrupt or is it the US is morally bankrupt letting him continue?"
This was early 98 Bill was still president until 2001.
So If history is anything to go by...NO
Sharkman
I'm not very interested I Trumps family history. If it influences his performance in office negatively I'll be more interested.
Whether Trump is a Christian or not is between him and God. His actions and words have indicated he is some sort of Christian....perhaps you can read his mind.
I'm not that interested in his affairs unless they would bar him from office. Amid endless muckraking this hasn't happened.
I'd prefer it if we supported good people in leadership. That's why I liked Romney and Cruz.
If you can read you'll know I'm also not a fan of the progressive partisan media trying to bring Trump down.
Trump has done plenty of great things.
He gave disenfranchised Americans hope that their country could be great again.
He beat Hillary and her corrupt cronies.
He stared down the fake news goons.
He changed politics forever and taught the right to take the fight to the left.
Defeated Isis.
Restored some faith in America by its allies.
Renegotiated unfair trade deals with other allies.
Challenged China and made positive overtures to Russia
Got North Korea to the Table
Implemented policy to protect American Jobs
Record low unemployment and a strong economy.
Is fighting congress to create effective border control
Is supportive of the military and law enforcement.
Reversed Obama's anti Israel direction.
The Supreme Court is now weighted to Originalists judges.
He is finally trying to address the deficit after being stymied by congress.
Just minor stuff like that....
Westofthelake
Wrong ....always
I suggest you are probably not the one to read Trumps mind and put words in his mouth.....so when he tells a reporter to 'take it any way you like', rather than meaning 'I do whatever I want', he's more likely to be saying 'I don't care what hacks like you think'
I could be wrong .....I'll ask him and get back to you.
Hmm how's things on planet Blob? You're not on this one if you honestly believe that stuff you posted. Let's look at things in a little more detail.
He beat Hillary and her corrupt cronies.
Well not really. He didn't get a majority of votes nation wide and only won the election because the Republicans have thoroughly gerrymandered the boundaries.
He stared down the fake news goons.
He is the fake news king. He makes things up, lies and contradicts himself.
He changed politics forever and taught the right to take the fight to the left.
Great work let's fight instead of compromising to find workable solutions which you would know has always been the way in the US Congress if you had read any history
Defeated Isis.
With a little help from Obama and various allies.
Restored some faith in America by its allies.
Well actually the exact opposite, certainly the US alliance is viewed as weaker than ever right across Europe.
Challenged China and made positive overtures to Russia
Has created the risk of a major trade war with China in which bystanders like Australia are likely to be the biggest losers. In Putin, he has crawled up the arse of one of the most toxic and destructive dictators around for no gain to the US, but considerable benefit to himself and his cronies.
Got North Korea to the Table
Ha ha. North Korea go to the table quite regularly and make numerous promises which they do not keep .... the only difference this time was that Trump embraced another toxic dictator and gave him the credibility every other US President in history had been smart enough to withhold.
Record low unemployment and a strong economy.
Largely the result of reforms and policies from the Obama era. His economic legacy will be more accurately assessed over the longer period.
Is fighting congress to create effective border control
By abusing children and since Congress is dominated by his own party it suggests that his policies are particularly unwise.
Is supportive of the military and law enforcement.
Oh great, more bombs, more drones, more police brutality and shootings of innocent black kids just for being black in the wrong place at the wrong time
Reversed Obama's anti Israel direction.
No US government has had the guts to be anti-Israel despite their land theft from the Palestinians and their on going use of lethal force against legitimate protest
The Supreme Court is now weighted to Originalists judges.
Great if you are a white male misogynist. Bad luck for everyone else
He is finally trying to address the deficit after being stymied by congress.
Ha ha ha ha you really believe that is going to happen? Nah you're shitting us right?
Stunet
"While Markson in October alluded to a “deeply personal crisis” in Joyce’s life and issues that “affected his marriage of 24 years”, it was a Fairfax journo who nailed the word “infidelity” to Joyce."
Amanda Meade in the Guardian.
You were saying?
Blindboy
So many words
Never answered the question....
Blindboy
....says Trump did not beat Hillary
You are a brazen gift Blindboy.
Blindboy
...calls Trump the 'fake news King'
We expect politicians to be partisan.
They are rightly partisan.
When they lie they are rightly scrutinised.
The fake news media claims they are unbiased.
They are lying both ways, while Trump is doing what politicians do.
He's very good at it though isn't he. Hehe
Blob, there is a concept that you appear to be unfamiliar with. It is called subtlety, and what it means is that things are not always, as you seem to think, black and white. Yes Trump won the Presidency but in any reasonable analysis, he did not win the vote. Now if that is too complicated for you to understand, that's OK. We know that the right always reacts emotionally so we're used to the fact that rational explanation is usually ignored in favour of ill informed instinct. People build careers on that. You van probably think of at least one ....... But maybe not.
Blindboy
...says Republicans should not play hard, but be nice and compromise with the Democrats.......who orchestrated the Kavanaugh witch hunt, who have endorsed personal harassment and who demonise every 'nice' republican candidate.
You are not right Blindboy. The republicans should not repeat their mistakes playing nice and losing
Blindboy
Obama was the best thing that ever happened to ISIS
Blindboy
Etc.
Blob they used to do this thing in schools called comprehension. They would give you something to read then ask questions to see if you understood. Your score on today's comprehension test 1/100. Congratulations you correctly spelled your name!
Blindboy
Uh oh...I think I'm detecting sarcasm.
On my planet we comprehend Trump really did beat Hillary.
Blindboy
Do you comprehend the question put to you about whether you would personally find partial birth a abortion for convenience at 8 1/2 months, and the marketing of the body parts morally permissible?
Wow I am adjusting your mark. 2/100. Now go back, read my posts again and see if you can detect a shade of grey, you know a state somewhere between absolutes. Win/lose, right/wrong, left/right. If you keep trying you might start to get it.
*begin transmission*
Blob, I considered replying to your reply to Sharkman, but blindboy pretty much covered my understanding and sentiments. ( which is great because truth be known I couldn't really be bothered, no offence babe )
Btw how is Planet Blob, blob?
Being right all the time must be like hell.
You said " His actions and words have indicated he is some sort of Christian...."
Really? Is that what you call Trump and perhaps by extension, yourself?
...some sort of Christian...
How does that work I wonder.
Is it like Christian by day half Christian by night?
Or just a quater of a Christian half of the time.
Maybe 1/8.....or perhaps......and so on... Well you get the picture blob..
Believe what you will but your beloved god Mr Donald J Toadstool Trumpernator is no christian, no friend of planet earth, and acts only to satisfy HIS "yuge" personal ego.
Just an observation, not an insult.
*end transmission*
Its a feature of the fundamental christian right that they say one thing and do the other. They are prepared to do and/or tolerate anything or anybody to advance their religious fundamentalism. On one hand they virtuously wrap themselves in their faith as proof they are always right and on the other they delve to the gutter in their words and deeds to maintain or gain more control or power.
Trump and his evangelical christian support base is the crassest, foulest, grubbiest, in the sewer example going around but here in Australia we have Joyce, Abbott, Morrison and co all professing to be god fearing devout christians yet by their words and deeds they prove themselves otherwise.
The fact of the matter is if Jesus was walking the earth today he would be the fiercest opponent of fundamental christians and their hypocritical puss filled politicians.
Blob says, "The left is wrong about eveything."
Until he quotes an op-ed from the Guardian to back up his hole-ridden, ideologically-driven argument.
Ha ha ha...
And yeah, the "allusion" to Barnaby's crisis was so subtle as to be on page one of the Telegraph.
You wasted your precious Saturday for that?
Slipping, mate. Slipping.
OK Blob , interesting your response , which seems to be another perspective on the headlines that plague the world right now.
It's important to know DT's history , as he carries a lot of baggage .....his father was rejected by Post 2nd world Germany , would not give him a passport (Right wing nationalist) so immigrated to the USA , got a $6m grant from the Govt to build Queens NY , but for white people only....and started making his fortune in real estate....hence the animosity from DT towards germany /Europe.....
DT fired up the conservative lower class , with empty rhetoric on making the USA great again , by appealing to their sense of being left behind by the New economy which is/was not manufacturing based.
The USA already had the best performing economy in the world, a dropping unemployment rate , and by far the best military on the planet....the USA was already great, especially compared to the rest of the Western World, Obama set all of this up , and DT came in gave $1.5 trillion in tax cuts to the wealthy.....more borrowed money , bigger deficit , keeps spending $'s that the Govt doesn't have!
His Christian angle is hilarious , as all he worked out was if he could stop abortion , then he would have the whole christian base vote for him, but his moral compass and his treatment of minority groups is abhorrent to real christians as they see the enemy at work , and there is no trust or respect for him as a businessman/leader or a christian as his infidelities go unchecked and unanswered , his discourse is one against Jesus's teachings , but most USA christians forgive this as he will stop abortion and the slaughter of children , but thats it!
You talk about Crooked Hillary , but DT has been bankrupt 4 times , colluded with the Russians , given huge tax concessions to the banking and rich elite , and seems to have the moral compass of a porn star!
Trump has done plenty of great things.
He gave disenfranchised Americans hope that their country could be great again.
***Country is great was great, but greed says " we want more, at what ever cost" short term view , history will tell us if they were right!
He beat Hillary and her corrupt cronies.
*** Hilary got 3m more votes , but trump also has very corrupt cronies who are currently facing charges ranging from corruption etc
He stared down the fake news goons.
***** are you talking about the false fake fox , or just general journalism?
He changed politics forever and taught the right to take the fight to the left.
*** the right/Tea Party has always fought the left , but as the world evolved they didn't and we will see how they go in the mid terms...oh and McCain was a great republican but saw thru DT!
Defeated Isis.
***Not defeated , they are still there , but badly beaten by USA/Russia , not just the USA!
Restored some faith in America by its allies.
*** Nothing could be further from the truth NATO has no respect for him , the French laugh at him, the Japanese just look longterm and know he will go eventually...no-one trusts the USA anymore.
Renegotiated unfair trade deals with other allies.
*** Still to be seen , as the animosity that he has created in the global economy by him has still not played out , and talk of recession in the coming 2 years is now looking like a depression , as America First is an insular vision of the world, and the USA was and is great because of its global might...not anymore!
Challenged China and made positive overtures to Russia
***** trade war with China , but no real effort to stop China now ruling the Sth China seas the worlds most important trade route....and Russia haha....
Got North Korea to the Table
*** I am sure you would know NK's nuclear testing site collapsed , and they need time to finish the new one , so Donald Dumb got/is being conned , they will not give up their nukes!
Implemented policy to protect American Jobs
**** haha , the unemployment rate is so low was already dropping , what jobs ?
Record low unemployment and a strong economy.
*** Obama inherited 10% + unemployment , when he left was 4,8% and still dropping and the USA was the worlds best performing economy , still is!
Is fighting congress to create effective border control
**** Oh yeah seperate parents and their children , build a wall ...and he has a majority in Congress, so how would he fight his own party?
Is supportive of the military and law enforcement.
*** which president wasn't , so whay are hate crimes thru the roof?
Reversed Obama's anti Israel direction.
*** yes he cancelled the Iran deal , but the rest of the world is still backing the Iran deal . Saudi Arabia is the new USA ally how's is that going? Yes DT loves the Jewish bankers/rich elite lets see how that plays ou?
The Supreme Court is now weighted to Originalists judges.
*** now this could be his greatest moment , but will the supreme Court now ban completely abortion?
He is finally trying to address the deficit after being stymied by congress.
*** wrong he just increased the deficit thru tax cuts , infrastructure spending ....congress is republican , Donald is republican.
So Blob , there is a lot of very false headline news in your assertions of What Trump has done , but really would you trust your daughter/wife with DT , do you respect him as a person?
It's pretty simple lovers will find positives, haters will find negatives.
Im in-between, i think he is crazy and a knob but i think it's cool he is president and if i was in the USA i would have voted for him just to stir shit up, so from my perspective he is doing a better job than expected and lasted longer than expected.
Stunet
You say it was all Newscorp ......but The Guardian says it was Fairfax that first nailed infidelity to Joyce.........which you discern must prove you right....only about something unrelated.
Wow, ....glad we have that fancy footwork on the record.
Careful......you are turning into Blindbot
The Left are wrong about everything
They can say it's a rainy day when it is in fact raining.....but it will stil be Trumps fault though.
Off sick today pal......but save the sympathy cause when the Paywall Socialist, grammar pedant sniper goes personal ....you know it's because he can't find a decent factual comeback.
Guysmiley
Do you not see the gobsmacking irony of posting a meme yourself to ridicule the level of media sophistication in others?.
Or are you the Gorilla?
The left are wrong about everything...
...except The Guardian are right, when it suits you of course.
OK, gotcha.
And what the hell was personal in my comment?
You're not turning into a snowflake are you?
Stunet
Read the words
Sharkman
I won't address all your selective bias....
but,... you admit the disenfranchisement of American manufacturing workers while saying everything was great under Obama, so no need at all for Trumps hopeful message.
Guess those coal miners just were not paying attention.
...and on allies, I wonder how Mubarak felt about his Americam mates when he was sitting in jail.
The anti Trump rump have screamed about Trump creating global economic catastrophe and nuclear war with every move he makes.......but he keeps winning.
I suppose Obama fixed everything but just got his timing wrong....that's one way of looking at it.
Nah.....if it was sunny, you'd still say it was raining because of Trump.
Sharkman
The Huffington Post is no friend to Trump.
Obama was a disaster for the Middle East.
Obama encouraged regime change in Egypt, and he encouraged the Arab Spring, which led directly to the Syrian disaster.
He then bluffed his 'red line' ....tough words, weakness in action, with disastrous consequences.
Trump hired Mad Dog Mattis, changed the rules of engagement etc.....words and action, the rest is history.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-v-micallef/a-legacy-of-failure-oba...
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/...
Blob where dd I say Obama fixed everything?
Obama inherited an American basket case. The economy was shattered with the GFC, the USA was bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan costing a Trillion $'s a year, and yeah in 8 years turned it all around.....Trump has inherited the best western economy , the best military and a respected USA.
To say disenfranchised coal miner were hard done by under Obama , FFS, they were made redundant by Co's who are private Co owners and boards of directors , and you want to try and save their jobs is like saying ,"ban Fords horseless carriage , as the horses will be out of a job!"...
Just realised that do you think Trump is a good christian leader , and would you trust and respect Donald and leave your wife and daughter with him for a weekend?
So you use Egypt as a way of denigrating Obama, you do realize that there is Europe/Canada/South America/Africa /Asia as well who now have little respect or confidence in DT's new America first?
So Obama is to blame for the middle east dilemma , not Bush who attacked Iraq , and killed 600K civilians , left a power vacum , Israel /Iran /Egypt all Obama's fault...??????
"And I'm wondering, for the sake of balance, did you ever criticised Obama, even once, during his 8 years in office for bailing out big business, importing cheap labour or the increasing wealth of the one percenters?"
Sigh......... Blob you do realise that continually whining about previous incumbents not only makes you look like a snowflake but isn't an argument for excusing Trump.
Obama is not my idol he carried out extrajudicial killings by drone on US citizens for starters, politically he was quite weak and did not have enough mongrel to move the social agenda as far as he could have.
How ever he and his family did have more class in his little finger than Trump will ever wont have (sorry for the gramma BB).
"This was early 98 Bill was still president until 2001.
So If history is anything to go by...NO"
ID Clinton was morally bankrupt this is a big reason why HR didn't get up what a blunder losing the unlosable election by the Democrats by putting up a woman complicit after the mess her husband created.
Note for all the "Snowfake" whining from Trump fanboys Clinton had the Star inquiry helped by Kavanagh pursue him over 5 or 6 allegations and the best they could come up with was he lied about the affair with Monica whose life the Republicans happily destroyed.
Point of clarification.
Hate being such an active emotional state it really isn't worth hating Trump. It would waste energy better devoted to more practical tasks. At the same time it is important to be aware of exactly how damaging he has become. The US was a sick and degenerate culture long before Trump became President but he has accelerated the process. So Blob and others prepared to defend him. Work your way through this little list and see if you can justify the human and environmental costs of his gross mismanagement.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n20/eliot-weinberger/ten-typical-days-in-trump...
Sharkman
I get it
You're not saying Obama fixed everything ...but Obama fixed everything.
He absolutely did not.
I'm with you on the errors of Bush Jnr.......Obama was a big of a fan of the foreign policy of Bush Snr. though.
Foreign affairs must be an incredibly complex task for a super power like the US.
Should Obama have put troops on the ground after Al Assad used chemical weapons on his own people?
Saddam gassed thousands as well.
I think the Iraq war was justifiable as an intervention at the time - the Democrats overwhelmingly supported it - but the management of the war was a debacle.
I'm confident future historians will see the legacies of the Bushs, Obama and Trump with a more nuanced perspective than our partisan comments.
Blindboy
I'd happily leave women in Trumps presence. He is surrounded by woman who respect him, in and out of his family.
Were you so hysterical about rapey Bill Clinton?.
The 'me too' movement has cut a swathe through Trumps biggest critics in the media and Hollywood as well.
Practice safe news
Trump derangement syndrome is nasty.
I am curious if you guys like DonaldTrump, or do you hate him?