What is freedom of speech?
"For thinking that the subjective opinion on the world around you is something to be ashamed of. Everybody hurts ....sometimes."
No matter how you croon it still sounds like the justification of someone who's never been oppressed or discriminated against.
Actually, I found this whilst looking for something else on these threads. From the recently departed Shatnerd:
Political correctness -
Realise the power of language especially when it's 'legitimated' through certain vessels e.g the media.
Own your opinion.
Take responsibility. Be accountable.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from responsibility and accountability.
Now, as for 'patriotic correctness'...
("don't mention the [first world] war")
It's an interesting case and was always at the lower end of the scale. It is hard to feel that the verdict in anyway vindicates the behaviour. It may not have breached the law but it certainly breached standards of reasonable behaviour. Consider; three men try to enter an area they know they are not entitled to, when a woman protests the three brave fellas go hard on social media. My verdict? Not guilty under 18C. Guilty as charged for being obnoxious sexist, racist, over privileged dickheads. Now do you reckon our brave defenders of free speech will have a go at me under 18C?
Stu, as much as we've had similar upbringings, don't presume to to know whether I've been oppressed.
I've spent years in the North West as a white piece of shit , according to most locals. I've been verbally and physically abused due to my race. Found plenty of succour within the ranks of my fellow demographic....but isn't that how it works ?
Plenty of discrimination in my global travels. I was fortunate enough to travel the globe for the first quarter century of my life due to my old man's occupation.....so I was privileged right ?
Till I arrived on these foreign shores and realised I was in the minority and treated accordingly, with attendant lack of respect as befits someone that can affford a 10 percent airfare but not the finances to extrapolate myself from the impoliteness of the societies I'd arrived in.
Not to mention the fact that I've existed in what would have to be the most impolite strata of Australian class society in the modern age - that of the Pilbara and Kimberly regions. Political correctness sure experienced a lag in making an impact in the more remote regions of Australia.
And any recent political correctness exists under the guise of the Neo Fascistic face of the US based transnational corporatocracy ....that is responsible for the exponential exacerbation of the original hatred of authority I was genetically gifted.
Then there is the encroaching political state of Australia.
You ever been to Indonesia ?
Experienced the freedoms ....however tenuous they may be ?
Australia....welcome to the land of multicultarism. If you truly don't believe that you're life has improved with the fractualisation of society due to the dilution of any commonality within society then you're obviously an uneducated yob that is in possession of a pathological fear of change or foreign concepts.
And if you don't get with the program then you'll be alienated and bullied. Denigrated and shamed for any belief that you stand by as true to your heart.
You mean that kind of oppression Stu ?
Then there is the situation with my beloved brother.
For all your talk of solidarity, have you ever put yourself on the line physically to represent the esteem of someone you care for in the face of blind hatred ?
And he's a gay bloke that many have tried to bring down and take me with him by proxy so you can get fucked if you deem to lecture me on how I should behave to be in accordance with any nominal notion of acceptable behaviour that will placate the remote and uninvested observers.
I feel your pain, Blowie.
Ha ha ha, I will leave Stu to answer that explosion of self-pity.
Nah, I mean I feel pain. Just reading that. Sorry, maaaate.
Time for a wiiiiiiiiiiiiine.
The irony is BB', that if a gay fella had complained about Nick 3's initial post you wouldn't have been so resolute.
You would have been all over his MINORTY pain.
Funny how you show such emotional regard for an abstract non existent homosexual, yet when I tell you about my experience living alongside a real person that has been pilloried due to his sexuality , it's farcical to you.
That's one of the reasons I've got so little respect for you.
You're all style and zero substance.
And when I say style, I mean generic style.
Serious misread if any of you think I need any sympathy.
My point being....everyone, EVERYONE, faces oppression at some point in their life. It's how you respond to it that determines who you are.
Look Blowin' if you want to complain about what I say fair enough, but maaaaate, give me a break, you really shouldn't make up things you think I might say and then get all emotional about it. I never made any remark about your brother and my original complaint was at a homophobic attack on two regular contributors to this forum, not your abstract mythical homosexual. Sexuality is a non-issue for the vast majority of people in the vast majority of situations these days ...... until someone, such as nick, wants to make it an issue. Then everyone has the right, if not the obligation, to point out that they find it offensive.
BB why do you even type your bollocks? You hate facts don't you. You are the typical left wing hate spewing nincompoop we all see on our TVs with their balaclavas on hoping that their mum's don't recognise them.
The facts: thee QUT students were looking to use a university computer. They found some in a room. They didn't know it was an indigenous only computer room. The non entity there asked them if they were indigenous. They said no and so were told to leave.
Then one wrote on social media ( the place where you no doubt hang all day ) that he had been kicked out for entering an indigenous only computer room. He also wrote QUT fighting racism with racism. And guess what mutton head? He was right. In fact they were all correct in what they did.
And the non entity? She went looking for the comments on social media so that she could take offence. So much offence in fact that she didn't feel safe to walk the streets. Utter nonsense!
So first, get your facts right, and then change your nappy because you speak so much crap that your facebag must be full.
As to the comments regarding the evilness of discrimination - picked your missus at random out of a hat did you? Don't tell me, you don't choose which board to ride, it just mystically appears in your hand?
Nothing wrong with discrimination. How do you think anyone succeeds. Only losers dislike discrimination because they need an excuse for why they fail.
Didn't know, didn't care and the three brave blokes went straight on line to attack the woman who was quite within her rights to ask them to leave. I forgot to throw in misogyny in that last point, but hey that doesn't matter since our last PM legitimised it for every dickhead in the country. As for your allegations against me. Hate? Me? Where? When? The odd barbed comment, an occasional slap at bullshit and bad behaviour. So go on discoduck, you said it you friggin' prove it or stand revealed as just another loudmouth spouting the latest crap, from Fox News. I have published many articles and thousands of comments. Find one where I express hatred......or crawl back under your favourite rock!
nicks comment homophobic? how exactly was the comment negative towards gay people?
For those of you who wish to support Ms Triggs and the way she manages the HRC, need to read the QUT case in more detail than just the headline. Then think of the students who paid $5000 to avoid legal action. Should they get paid back $5000 ? I suggest yes. Let's be fair dinkum here. This case was not right and Ms Triggs caused it.
Hard to know how to respond really. I struggle to see how you can equate your priviliged upbringing with its attendant education, travel, Western enlightenment, and opportunity, with that of northwest Aborigines.
That is what you were doing, right? Tell me if I'm reading it incorrectly.
But if I am right then surely you have the capacity to understand how and why cyclical poverty exists and how oppression plays into that.
Or perhaps I shouldn't assume...?
I'll step back a moment and make an obsevation that I alluded to earlier. Australia currently faces many challenges, from environmnetal perils of many stripes, nefarious trade deals that threaten to strip worker power, and adjusting to a new energy economy, to name a few. These aren't 24 hour news cycle issues - here today, gone tomorrow - but matters that will shape the economic future of the country. They are issues of utmost importance that should take precedence in the national debate. So what's been the Coalition's biggest target since forming government? 18-fucken-C.
Old white men viciously fighting for the right to say hatfeul words while Rome burns. I struggle to get pent up about 18C cos it's just so much babyfood. The closest analogy I can get to the QUT case is the two guys who want to start up a male only working space (see news this week, it was on every outlet). No word from the moral gatekeepers about segregation there, eh? Sure, they were laughed at, but there wasn't the moral opprobrium as in the QUT case. Funny about that...
Anyway, it's no surprise where I stand on 18C but forgive me for not wasting my energy or adopting it as an ideological emblem.
Indonesia as an example of encroaching political freedoms? Is this an extension of not being able to say naughty words..? Again, I'm not too sure why you include it. I don't feel any tightening of political freedom in that regard. Trade deals that thwart worker rights - yep, start hurling bricks. But assuming we're on a path to fascism just reeks of go-for-yer-guns yankee paranoia. If anything, Abbott and Brandis' erosion of the seperation of powers should be the worry, but like the other 'challenges' I listed above, it's overlooked in favour of Leyonhjelm's vanity project.
Culture as a binding agent. You mention finding comfort in your own demographic. Lot of clues there, though I shouldn't get too smug 'cos I sometimes find comfort there too. However, I also get very uncomfortable with 'my demographic' when they take liberties I don't feel they deserve. I wont defend them when that happens. Similarly, I feel myself to be a bigger and better person - laugh at those words all you want - when I extend myself beyond my kind. And how's this for a whimsical overreach? I think our culture is stronger when we're more inclusive. Yes, I do. It's such a fucken cliche to say 'stength in diversity', it's used to explain everything from cellular reproduction to gut health to rainforest proliferation, but I think it also defines a healthy culture. One that enriches and endures.
I wont foist those beliefs on you. You're etitled to yours, just as much as yourself and DiscoStu would call me a weak leftwing pushover, or a culture betrayer, or whatever stereotype fits that worldview.
I'll put it out there but would the HRC case have gained any initial traction if instead of the three supposedly 'privileged' white boys, it was three women who posted the 'fighting racism with racism' post up? My guess is no. No real background was provided about the male students, who's to say they may have been dirt poor state school kids having pulled themselves up out of the western suburbs and worked their arses off to get into uni? But whether they are or not, in my opinion, is moot. The fact that they are young white males automatically elevates them above others in society in the eyes of the oppressed in Australian society and i use that term very loosely. That makes them fair game with no right to have an opinion? That legal action was total crap in my eyes and boo-hoo to the lady that brought it- put down your iphone for a minute love.
I agree with for the most part with Stu's very well written post above and also a lot with the other posters above. In fact i'm loving the toing and froing but I think many people these days are becoming just a little bit too precious and any sling or barb in any direction is akin to reverting back to the days of slavery. As Mr. Nettle pointed out, there's much bigger fish to fry which seems to be slipping under everybodys radar.
The most visible area of 'privillaged white male' dominance in Oz would be the Australian parliament cause we see them on tv and in the print day in day out, but I think the true face of Australia difffers. In any area, government or private enterprise, you will see all creeds and colours working in all roles. It's not uncommon to see a hijab wearing woman supervising a team of others in some public service section or a turban wearing bloke driving an electricians van or a gay hotel general manager and so forth. The Aboriginals? That's a different story and much needs to be done in that area.
I won't go on, but finally, i think there's a little bit of merit in the man- cave thingy mentioned above- blokes are getting the shit kicked out of them left right and centre these days and having recently chatted to a mate trying to raise his three boys as healthy, young well adjusted men, confusion seems to reign supreme. And I'm talking about normal blokes, not wife bashers, rapists, predators, pedaphiles, dim-wits, brainless, mysogynistic, incompetent, thoughtless, narcissistic, pussy- grabbers that most of us are portrayed as being.
What a preposterous joke. BB, I cant respond to you. Any one of my shoes has a higher IQ than you.
The freedoms you all enjoy are courtesy of "white people"! Shock I know!
If you think any of those A hole African or Middle Eastern countries offers a better deal for you whiteye, then on your bike.
As to the so called indigenous, they are Australians and have the same opportunities as everyone else. They should ONLY be given the same opportunities as everyone else, NOT more.
If I want to call someone a poof I will. I don't give a monkey's for your narrow minded guilt rendered thinking. If you feel something for NW indigenous types well good for you. I do not.
The societies of the indigenous are NOT something to perpetuate, and certainly not at taxpayer expense.
Go read back some of the journals of the first settlers, the legal people and so on. You wont find a positive word about the sorts of people they were. Some now like to fantasise about these people as being something wonderful. Dudes, they have had 150 years to prove that they have some wonderful qualities. They are yet to reveal such.
Back to the HRC decision. The decision is that the non entity wasn't offended. I cant wait to see her pay back money that was handed over by 3 students. Of course she will be handing over taxpayer money, NOT the actual money she obtained. That means 18C remains. It has to go.
You've gotta stop playing the mkts, Discostu, you've been stripped of all humanity.
Oh so brave in the safety of the Internet disco! I would suggest that you are much less mouthy out there in the real world where the offence taken might have real consequences. Sounds like backyard talk amongst your, sadly, like minded mates.
Discostu im intrigued what has caused you to form the opinions you express and why are you so aggressive in doing so.
Try to respond in a civil manner.
Never afraid to say what I think BumBoy, no matter where I am. You love to think people are like you. Well they aint. That is my last word to you. Don't even bother with any more of your inane inbred nonsense.
Stu, humanity isn't measured in the terms of the left. Quite the opposite. As usual, I just allude to the facts, not some fantasy fiction. But whatever floats your boat. I have my opinion, and you have yours. I don't stoop to limbo dancing beneath toilet doors like BB though.
"Stu, humanity isn't measured in the terms of the left."
It really is astounding how you can turn everthing into a binary option: on/off, yes/no, left wing/right wing. At various times in my life I've subscribed to Green Left Weekly and Quadrant yet I've never come across anyone so quick to label.
Amusing this week, boring as a bell end next...
I suppose we might have guessed you were a slow learner disco but to lapse back into homophobia so quickly is really sad and says a lot more about your sexuality than mine. Those who are happy and confident in their own gender identity tend not to insult others on the basis of theirs.
DiscoStu is correct. rights and freedoms, such as human rights, minority rights and the concept of both positive and negative freedoms are a white thing.
That's right stu, helping out the black man and minorities is a white thing. If you don't like our white culture then you're free to move to somewhere like Myanmar where they don't have such notions of rights and freedoms.
"....rights and freedoms, such as human rights, minority rights and the concept of both positive and negative freedoms are a white thing."
Incorrect, they're an Enlightenment thing, and if you've read 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' you'll understand it's pure chance that white men got to that point of development first; where they had the propserity, time, and resource, to care for others. No race has any biological characteristic that precludes them from caring for others, but what prevents many cultures from doing so now is the immediacy of survival. Economic progress has been uneven.
Don't really dig the tone of that last sentence of yours...
does the fact that white races have made it the imperative to shackle the "third world" by "free trade agreements" and "cash crops" thus literally cutting off any opportunity they would have (as we would in oz recognise opportunity) to level the playing fields between groups of humans make a difference? Show me a time in history when fear and hate proved to be the right decision, after all it was us white men who made the system
The Panama Papers reveal that the total amount of tax avoided in African countries over the last several decades exceeds the combined gross national debts of all African nations. The systems for doing this, and most of the profit, has gone to wealthy white people. Add to that the simple truth that much of the wealth of Europe, the US and Australia was built on slavery and wage exploitation so severe as to be the moral equivalent. So I expect there is some lingering resentment in the descendents of those so fiercely exploited and amongst those who are still being exploited today. They have no reason to trust, respect or grant us equal status. We, as historical debt, if for no other reason, owe it to them.
Stu - not comparing my upbringing with that of the NW blackfellas.
Talking about oppression .
Have I ever experienced oppression ?
Lived for years in towns that exist in a state of semi siege - better not go to the Main Street the mob is on the piss...and angry. Better give the car a wide berth in the car park at the shops cause that mob of young fellas that was eyeing you off for trouble as you went in is slouched against your Toyota hoping for an excuse to fight you ten to one. Missus can't walk the streets on her own without threats from gins most days. Rocks thrown at your car as you drive. Car broken into time and time again. Could go on and on.
We both know how we came to this state of affairs, the injustice suffered by the black fellas.
But this is about injustice metred out to myself...who's never said a bad word to a blackfella or wished harm on anyone without provocation.
Living in a town with bars on every shop window. The real threat of unprovoked violence at any random time. That's true oppression in anyone's eyes.
The blackfellas were pushed off their land, often times by people that had been transported against their will to act as indentured servants to a crown that reduced their opportunities in pre transported life to that of either criminal or wage slave . Given an opportunity to become the landed gentry that was seen as their ticket to freedom they grabbed it with both hands and pity anyone that got between them and their future.
Anyone such as the original inhabitants.
You'd think that the new settlers would have reflected on the way they were treated and shown a bit more courtesy to those few that they could oppress.
Same could be said about the black majority in remote townships....but the wheel of disrespect keeps on turning.
eh eh eh, don't be bringing your complex and uncomfortable truths when simplistic assumptions keep my worldview palatable.
The predominate 2 reasons for underdevelopment are geography (poor access to sea transport and/or being within the disease zones of the tropics) and inherited institutions (weak institutions are easy prey for abuse both internally and externally). The benefits that fall to us as white australians we inherited, partially off the labour and blood of others, and none of us did a thing to earn them. Damn context.
None of them did a thing to earn them ?
Might surprise you to learn that Australia wasn't always the comfortable , air conditioned living space you now inhabit.
People made the country what it is through blood , sweat and tears.
Apologies to those who'd see our ancestors - mine anyway - as freeriders on the blackfella' s back , but by no means , not even remotely , was that blood , sweat and tears monopolised by the original people.
I recommend reading " The Bush " by Don Watson.
By no means a glowing account of the glories of the colonial intrusion and the ensuing degradation of this land - as it shouldn't be - but it sure paints the picture of the endurance and fortitude, not to mention the sheer bloody mindedness required to fashion a nation into our idea of civilisation.
And if you're referring to personally , whether you and I , did anything to make life in our country into what it is today ?
Maybe you should try working a few summers in the North of the country, especially in remote areas , before you start flagging how easy we've got it.
Stu, you dismiss the QUT issue, maybe too trivial or insignificant compared to the larger picture of indigenous issues - correct ? The point that needs to be stressed here is the person, Triggs and the body we have appointed as seriously failed for Ms Prior, the complainant, QUT, the students and of course the process of managing these issues. If the structure we all agree to and set up fails then we need to start again. You need some sort agreed process so all parties can clearly and confidently resolve some of the bigger issues you mention.
LNP massages the 18 c issue as part of their divide and conquer routine.
Since Howard they've been ramping up immigration to decimate workers rights through dilution of the union movements percentage of the working population and through purely flooding the labour market.
Feeding the flames of societal discontent and the increased competition for jobs along cultural lines by promoting the " Foreign Invasion " hype by demonising refugees - the only immigrants that are truely entitled to a place in the nation - whilst quietly selling out the Australian working class through regular immigration .
Divide and conquer, divide and conquer.
They're not inventing the wheel as far as a ruling class goes.
Personally on 18c I believe it's an unnecessary pisstake.
Just another boot on the throat of anyone that dares voice a contradiction to the mass immigration imposed on Australia by transnational corporations.
Inititially imposed by transnational corporations....
Its designed to squash political dissent , but most people think it's to protect the unfortunate and statistically unlikely Asian guy on the bus that gets hassled by a pissed idiot for a seat.
The most inclusive, culturally tolerant nation on the planet. 30 percent of us weren't born here, MASSIVE immigration. The largest immigrant intake as a percentage of population of any country in the world. And that's not including the farcical guest worker situation.
And in three years there has been one successful prosecution under 18c - please correct me if I'm wrong - could Aussies be anymore welcoming ?
Or complacent / blindly accepting ?
And sorry too refute your analogy Stu and don't read too deeply into this as a reflection of modern society.
But diversity reflects a pausity of societal cohesion and coordination.
A rainforest is amongst the most competitive of all environs.
The Fitzgerald River region of Western Australian represents the most diverse floral species range per square metre of anywhere on the planet .
This diversity has arisen due to the lack of resources and fertility that is encumbent in the growing environment.
So what is resultant is an abundance of varying species all competing for limited resources with no dominant species managing to arise and control the environment.
Divide and conquer , baby !
And here is a side note to file under " Sheepdog' s treatise on the use of propoganda to control society ".
Does anyone wonder why rascism became the new paedophilia ?
Why "diversity " became the essential component for a harmonious and internationally acceptable society ?
Does Australia seem a more cohesive society than it did in 1999 ?
And when you reach peak diversity and Rasta , bless his socks he rips so hard , starts to preach that line ups would be so much more pleasant if only for diversity.....
Cause god knows I feel so uncomfortable when it's just myself and a few like minded crew sharing the waves....
Or maybe he means that the village in Western India where surfing is just starting to take a foothold, could do with a few old school Aussie locals that'll paddle inside them every set wave ?
Cause ALL diversity is a plus right ?
All hail diversity .....for the sake of diversity.
Divide and conquer.
Sheesh,Blowin you and that moron BB are brothers!
Immigration is used solely to improve GDP stats. You ignorant twat!
Now this wouldn't be an issue if the immigrants were the best of the best elsewhere. Alas, they are scum. They wont contribute a thing and 86% of Islamic rubbish are on the dole, the disability pension or some other government funded pension at our expense. Hell, I haven't even started
And I thought I was pissed.....
Lots of people work dangerously hard Blowin, most just don't accumulate anything to show for it. Why did Australians?
Disco stu....... You really need to score a root...... Or give the ferret a stroke..... Jump on porn hub and fap away your months if not years of pent up frustration........... Or is it impotence?..... Ah.... That's it!!!!!! No lead in the pencil, bro?
They got medication for that sort of problem you know......
For everyones fuckn sake give it a try man......
When you shaggers don't have an argument, go the made up attack huh? wahahahhahaha
What a pathetic response.
There is no proof of man made warning period. It simply doesn't exist. Believing without facts is just ideology.
Milo overdose, Stu-bags.
"There is no proof of man made warning period. It simply doesn't exist. Believing without facts is just ideology."
Warning! Warning! Stu-made contradiction melt-down. Logic so twisted, it's broken!
& for farks sake, Doggo, not that 'butthurt' stuff AGAIN...
The last wail of the 'libertarian'
Last wail of the commie....ban the cartoon frog
Ban the gay homophobe!
Give 'em Milo!
Bernardi is sadly another blow hard. All talk no action. Just your kinda guy gobbler. You seem to really appreciate the non achievers that type endless rot. In fact, your mimicry of them is resplendent in its gormlessness.
What about this joker, Stu-bags?
We're paying for this shit-com?!
Mate. Mooooit. MOOOITTTTTTT!
With the exception of the tie colour ( yours being pink! ) he is a dead ringer for you squire. I guess you are saving a fortune on shampoo. Good for you.
And then there's this slick political operator: