America - who would be King?

peterb's picture
peterb started the topic in Monday, 22 Apr 2019 at 5:20pm

Charles Blow writes for the NYT and in today's online issue he asks : " Who will we (America) let be king in this country, the president or the law?"

He's talking about Trump.

Blow quotes Thomas Paine, 1776 : "In America the law is king .. For as in absolute Governments the king is law, so in free (democratic) countries the law ought to be king; and there ought be no other."

I thought that sounded ok to begin with .. who can argue against Tom Paine? He was an English-born American political activist, philosopher, political theorist, revolutionary and one of the Founding Fathers of the United States.

If Tom was still around I'd ask him 'If the law is king, what does that make the law-makers?'

But he's not, so I thought I'd throw it at you blokes ....

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Monday, 22 Apr 2019 at 8:20pm

... for what it's worth

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 12:12pm

Gonna have to pass, Pete. I'm all Trumped out.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 12:35pm

It isn't about Trump.

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 12:54pm

But...it is, isn't it?

I mean you can say 'the president' but we all know who's being referred to.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 1:11pm

No, I'm referring to the United States Founding Fathers' basic tenet of democracy - The Law is King.
And I'm asking how can that be so when the law is made by men ...

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 1:17pm

I feel like I'm being led into a dark room here...

Well, 'The Law' may be made by men but it isn't created by one man, it's agreed upon by many people, and it can't act arbitrarily as a lone human can, and it is also being continually tested against precedent, and sharpened by ongoing legal challenge.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 1:32pm

Kings are absolute. If the law is king then by definition that too is absolute, which means it cannot be made subject to man.

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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 4:55pm

Whaddya reckon stu, old veteran, are we all done here?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 5:32pm

I'm not feeling it, Pete.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 5:53pm

I've just vanquished the American Constitution .. do I get lollies for that?

stunet's picture
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stunet commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 6:51pm

Think they call it candy, not lollies.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 7:37pm

I'm working on the 2nd Amendement, the gun one, pushing for a change that has the guy who wants to buy a gun put a six-shot revolver with one bullet in the chamber to his head and pull the trigger five times. If he makes it, he's good to go.

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velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 8:22pm
peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 8:57pm

Try to keep it subtle, VJ, don't want to scare off the big thinkers ..

velocityjohnno's picture
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velocityjohnno commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 9:36pm

OK PeterB - I'm a fan of Terry Crews in this extreme.

FWIW Paine was in a situation where they faced a tyranny (the King) in much the same way as the ancient Romans overthrew tyrant Kings to establish the Republic. People bearing arms becoming 'Minutemen' in a voluntary fashion was distinctly different from a standing army being imposed upon the people - and also different from today's gun culture in the US. Remember the quip attributed to Admiral Yamamoto, too :)

Also, the US was never begun as a democracy, they went to lengths to point out they were a Constitutional Republic.

peterb's picture
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peterb commented Tuesday, 23 Apr 2019 at 9:43pm

Fair enough, I'm out.

factotum's picture
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factotum commented Friday, 26 Apr 2019 at 12:10pm

Actually, let's take this up a notch. With the comedy result in the Ukraine and of course the reality TV dude in the White House, what funny person could/would/should take the reins here in the merry ol' land of Oz?

This bloke?

https://youtu.be/jvWc_y-MZ_Q