Submitted by Shatner'sBassoon on Fri, 11/06/2015 - 19:48
AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.
LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.
" I think there is the potential for Labor to move to the left if they have the right policies and a good communicator as leader."
Are these right policies and good communicator just going to materialise?
Or do we already have them?
Maybe sypkan. If they are there they are keeping a low profile but sometimes people rise up quickly.
Indo, the left actually has the answers to the problems caused by globalisation in developed economies. Broadening the tax base, keeping wages well above the poverty line, increasing access to health services and education. These policies were once bipartisan. You don’t need a magic pudding for this to work, just good governance instead of corporate boot licking which is what we have from both Liberal and Labor in Australia as well as Republican and Democrat in the US. Corbyn’s speech made it clear that there is now a real alternative in the UK.
Im no expert but i don't think that fixes the main problem caused by globalisation, which is jobs and business going offshore. (good for developing countries but not developed countries)
I think one of the main reasons people voted for Trump is because of of jobs and business going offshore and he promised to try to deal with it, and also a different kind of globalisation a social globalisation (the illegal workers problem they have in the USA from Mexico etc)
Don't know if he has the answers but so far seems to be doing okay.
I don't know how you could even make health and education better in Australia, i was blown away how good everything was the other year when i broke my ribs and punctured my lung, i was expecting a huge bill at the end of it all but it was pretty much all free, same when i go to the doctor (bulk bill) I'm always blown away that i can see a doctor for free even though i work.
I'm happy I don't pay but really i think the only people who should get it free is those with health care cards on social security, pensioners or low income earners.
Maybe the only areas that need improving is dental health system and i guess our infrastructure like hospitals beds can't keep up with our population increases due to high immigration rates.
Education is also fine (to year 12) cheap and accessible to all.
As i said the other day the biggest problem for low income earners is real estate, most now will never be able to afford a home and the rental market is expensive and i guess low skilled jobs are limited because most have gone offshore.
BB - The left unified Australia in the 19th century by seeking an end to the importantion of foreign labour that they knew would drive down wages. This movement created the stage for the White Australia policy. The creation of this policy is what enabled Australia to attain the high standard of living that Australians of all racial origin enjoy today.
Ironic that the living standards that so many migrated to Australia to attain are now being undermined and reduced by the sheer scale of the very same lax migration laws that favoured them.
The traditional left in Australia would and did oppose globalisation . You may consider it evolution of ideology, progression of morality or broadening of their scope to further the interests of ALL humanity. The result is the same , the left’s new rejection of representing its original constituency and the manifest of its founders , is that the Australian worker will soon be facing 2nd world living standards if the current status quo of boundless immigration and deskilling of our nation endures.
Totally wrong. The White Australia policy took Australia backwards. No Roaring Twenties here because we didn't have the migration necessary to fuel growth - in fact we suffered economically for four decades. If Australia took the migrants that America took we'd have a very different landscape. Consider that most of the largest American companies of the last century were started by European immigrants that we would have denied, also many of America's greatest performers, playwrights, and authors, the backbone of America's cultural heft.
Not sure how you could join the dots between migration policies a century ago and living standards now. Too much happening in between.
Melbourne Trades Hall was opened in 1859 with Trades and Labour Councils and Trades Halls opening in all cities and most regional towns in the following forty years. During the 1880s Trade unions developed among shearers, miners, and stevedores (wharf workers), but soon spread to cover almost all blue-collar jobs. Shortages of labour led to high wages for a prosperous skilled working class, whose unions demanded and got an eight-hour day and other benefits unheard of in Europe.
Eight-hour day march circa 1900, outside Parliament House in Spring Street, Melbourne.
Australia gained a reputation as "the working man's paradise." Some employers tried to undercut the unions by importing Chinese labour. This produced a reaction which led to all the colonies restricting Chinese and other Asian immigration. This was the foundation of the White Australia Policy. The "Australian compact", based around centralised industrial arbitration, a degree of government assistance particularly for primary industries, and White Australia, was to continue for many years before gradually dissolving in the second half of the 20th century.
The growth of the sugar industry in Queensland in the 1870s led to searching for labourers prepared to work in a tropical environment. During this time, thousands of "Kanakas" (Pacific Islanders) were brought into Australia as indentured workers. This and related practices of bringing in non-white labour to be cheaply employed was commonly termed "blackbirding" and refers to the recruitment of people through trickery and kidnappings to work on plantations, particularly the sugar cane plantations of Queensland (Australia) and Fiji. In the 1870s and 1880s, the trade union movement began a series of protests against foreign labour. Their arguments were that Asians and Chinese took jobs away from white men, worked for "substandard" wages, lowered working conditions and refused unionisation.
Objections to these arguments came largely from wealthy land owners in rural areas. It was argued that without Asiatics to work in the tropical areas of the Northern Territory and Queensland, the area would have to be abandoned. Despite these objections to restricting immigration, between 1875 and 1888 all Australian colonies enacted legislation which excluded all further Chinese immigration. Asian immigrants already residing in the Australian colonies were not expelled and retained the same rights as their Anglo and Southern compatriots.
"The traditional left in Australia should have opposed globalisation."
Only right in hindsight.
Globalisation made a lot of people rich. Not just the top hats, it also made the working class upwardly mobile. Any political party that tried to stop that was effectively signing their death warrant.
From above - “Australia gained the reputation as the working man’s paradise” after federation.
Sound familiar ?
It’s the same scenario that played out till very recently. The scenario that is still attracting the world’s population to want to migrate here and causing those standards to decline.
A historically unprecedented mining boom is what lifted the Australian living standard across the board so dramatically. The following tilt towards true globalisation - massive immigration , dismantling of manufacturing- is what has led to its decline.
The embarrassment of riches from the world demand for our resources that actually did trickle down throughout Australian society is what granted upward mobility to Australians.
Proven by the fact that we were the only country in the Western Hemisphere that didn’t go into decline during the initial onset of globalisation. We thrived DESPITE globalisation, not because of it.
The rest of the world was fucked so completely by the GFC because when it hit they’d already undermined their national incomes through offshoring work and industry and devalued their own labour markets by various open border strategies.
Stu said -“Globalisation made a lot of people rich. Not just the top hats, it also made the working class upwardly mobile. Any political party that tried to stop that was effectively signing their death warrant”
We have discussed this before . The conflation between globalisation and the mining boom as causation for Australia’ Resilience to the GFC is no accident. The usurpation of the Labor party by non working class individuals, by the academic left , was possible due to the flood of money into Australia due to the mining boom.
Your opinion that workers were so wealthy that they didn’t require traditional political support any longer is incorrect . Many workers away from the East coast capital cities were still exposed to the IR threat posed by Capital. The fight never ended.
But political victories are won or lost in those capitals and so if the workers there were convinced to believe the war was won then they lost focus and allowed the Academic Left to seize control. And it was the Academic Left who convinced them that there were other fronts that the left must now face ie The Battle for Humanity and Political Identity that the next generation believes is more important than the Labour / Capital war that is intrinsic to Labor’s DNA.
Thought AU during Menzies' prime ministership was seen as the time of milk and honey
"But political victories are won or lost in those capitals and so if the workers there were convinced to believe the war was won then they lost focus and allowed the Academic Left to seize control. "
Absolute rubbish. You really think Joe Average at Albion Park cared what the Academic Left thought? Go check all the constituencies that switched from Labor to Liberal under Howard and you'll have you answer.
Hint: They ain't all in the capitals.
It’s pretty revealing that you think Albion park isn’t included as part of the East coast capital cities.
Grab a map of Australia and check the distance between Kiama and Sydney in relation to the scale of Australia.
Whilst workers in Albion park were thinking that they were rich , rich , rich cause they’re houses and wages were rising , the people that were at the frontlines of the IR dispute were witnessing the first true assault on conditions for many years.
Imported labour due to skills shortages ( haha ! ) was beginning to make a serious impact. The resultant decline in wages and conditions due to undermining of the supply / demand situation regarding Australian labour was germinating .
The mining boom created the wealth for the Albion Park “aspirational “ through a intentionally inaugurated real estate boom , the imported labour sustained the lie through artificially induced demand for housing .
The whole deal is a house of cards that arose through the arrival of the MASSIVE US and international companies that were attracted to the flood of money that the resources boom generated.
Till their arrival, Australia was mostly overlooked by them . Our market too small to generate their proper interest.
As soon as companies like Xxxxxxx arrived , then the IR landscape was altered completely. Xxxxxxx et al are so huge that they ARE the US by proxy. The political situation of the US is so perversely corrupted that it’s distorted to the point of the government operating as an arm of the companies.
You already know this. Whether it’s overt or covert pressure from the White House , sanctions or military intervention, the US WILL have its way in your country.
The companies say that the labour costs are too high in Australia and pressure upon Australia’s government in one form or another results in the companies getting their way. Thus it was IR reform and the devaluation of the labour in Australia on both the Liberal / Labor agenda.
Why else would Labor walk away from its historical imperative ?
They’d seen what happened to Gough . Even Hawke had to get the green light from Washington or else he’d have been dead in the water. That’s why Gillard/ Rudd collapsed like cheap deck chairs and what allowed the Academic Left to seize control.
Now both major parties are all for the Pro US / Anti working class concept of Mass immigration.
Liberals like it cause they straight out represent Capital and Labor initially wore it cause they fucking HAD to . Now Labor loves it cause they get to import minority votes and to stop the immigration / housing Ponzi scheme now will see them holding the bundle when the music stops , the wheels fall off and the shit hits the fan for Australia’s hollowed out economy . . Easier for them to walk away from their beliefs than it was for them to walk away from power and a career.
I don't even understand what you're saying. Of course it's self-preservation, if Labor didnt shift with the economic and cultural tides they faced annihilation. And you know why? Because no-one would've voted for them!
So who's fault is that?
Now after thirty years the cultural moment is moving back to protectionism, but you cant rewrite history and say Labor should've been promoting it all along. That would've been as effective as Socialist Resistance posters on a Vaucluse telegraph pole. Ignored. They simply woudln't exist if they were pushing that line.
When one party aggressively promotes neolib policies the other has to play ball, however reluctantly. You think they could buy back privatised assets, increase taxes that have been lowered, restore spending on education and health and still run a lean economy that people would vote for??
Sorry, once the neolib genie was out of the bottle the other side couldn't do shit about it. We voted self-interest, and for three decades that's what neoliberalism gave us. And now it doesn't.
That's the historical context.
Lastly, I chose Albion Park for no reason other than alliteration - dont read too much into it. Could've been Armidale, could've been Alice. Same deal.
The irony is that when the US raises their interests rates , the party is over in Australia anyway , as our banks source their funding on the international market .
So Australia is still going to get shafted by the US even though we dropped to our knees , sold our souls and acquiesced to their demands .
When the dog shakes the fleas get worked .
And the US is still a far more preferable overlord than China.
Are we still arguing about the same thing?
I cant tell.
I’ve pumped about 40 coffees into myself today cause I’m long distance driving and now I’m parked up in the middle of the bush for the night and punching keys as fast as I can from excess energy .
Time for a walk otherwise I’ll be awake till dawn. Too many Roos to drive.
The mighty West Coast Eagles
P.S. A special thanks to all those biased Victorian experts that still don’t understand it’s actually a National comp. Thanks again for making it even sweeter ;-)
Blowin, we are economically tied to China and politically tied to the US. Which do you think is more important? As you probably suspect I would argue for China out of pure pragmatism.
The relationship between Australia and USA is more important than China as they are our main ally, we can live without reliance on China but we can't live without the protection of the USA.
But being so reliant on China is a big problem for us and kind of crazy, we shouldn't be putting all our eggs in one basket we should be diversifying and focussing on trade and relationships with other developing countries in SE Asia especially those that border the South China Sea and also India.
Indo. Have a read of this.
Excellent article happy.
Maybe the wrong thread, or maybe not.
That’s basically garbage , BB.
Claiming that we shouldn’t attempt to reinvigorate the technological skills and workforce in Australia that is sustained through a domestic arms manufacturing industry.
We are going to buy the arms anyway , why not make them ourselves ?
A very essential industry in my eyes , and an industry that provides the impetus for potential discovery of many new peripheral technologies that we could potentially export to the rest of the world.
Claim that it’s an inefficient use of productivity is ridiculed when it’s noted that a vast percentage of our current GDP is generated through the unproductive construction and renovation of housing necessary to support the immigration Ponzi scheme.
We SHOULD be building productive infrastructure and revitalising productive industry. Instead we are building houses and selling them to each other and when there’s not enough of us to buy all the houses were building we actually import people to buy them !
This is an unproductive money churn sustaining a false economy. When the wheels fall off our housing boom we will be left with nothing to take up the slack . No exports except for land titles as we sell our nation as real estate.
Arms industry would be a great idea.
....... well argued garbage though Blowin. You assert what you believe is the best policy. They argue, in detail, for theirs. I think they are right but am open to your position if there is evidence to refute theirs.
Interesting read, but i wasn't really thinking of defence manufacturing in Australia, i don't understand why anyone would build anything in Australia, we have already priced ourselves out of that.
But you would want to hope USA would back us in any conflict we found ourselves in, after all isn't that why we follow them into conflict after conflict.
Nations do not have allies Indo. Just interests. The US would back us to the exact extent it suited their national interests .....as perceived by the government of the day.
Good article happy
I particularly liked;
"If Australia and Indonesia came to blows over something less than existential issues, we could find ourselves lacking broader support (and might deserve to be cut off for not being able to manage our diplomatic affairs better)"
BB - What evidence ?
Their claims are mostly sophistry .
Claiming that to reinvigorate a manufacturing industry would “ detract from the economy “ ! Oh , you mean an economy built on the dying coal industry?
Or an economy based on foreign companies exporting or LNG with ZERO ( !!!!) net benefit to our nation . Or maybe the “ education “ industry which is , as everyone knows , is nothing more than a visa scam .
These are our 3 biggest industries at the moment. None of which are of any real benefit except to bolster the all important GDP figures.
Australia needs a manufacturing industry. It is an essential, non negotiable requirement for the sustainability of our nation. Right now we in the same place as Greece before the GFC. We make nothing and our exports are tenuously tied to the health of the global economy and the expectation that our neighbors will be friendly enough to maintain trade with us.
This is not a way to provide the security we need. We need to be self reliant. The construction of an arms industry is one way we could begin to reskill and retool our nation. It would be a starting point to restablish the credibility of our ability to maintain a manufacturing industry.
The claim that our labour costs are too high is defeatist nonsense. It is parroting the line fed to us by those that wanted to offshore manufacturing in the first place in order to reap a greater profit margin than domestic manufacturing provided them.
It was greed that destroyed our nations independence, nothing more.
‘Selling weapons of war will save us!!!! And the planet!!! Pay attention kids!!! Yeeeeehhhaaarrrr!!!’
Where have we heard that before? Never underestimate the power of conditioning. Ever. Parrots are easily trained, adolph knew that.
Could we really survive without the ‘royals’? Blasphemy!!!
Self reliance? 80,000 years is a long time. Yet, some claim 200 odd. Of bungles resulting in ‘ let’s make more guns... we ain’t greedy but!!!!
80,000 years. Never had to ‘market’ or ‘sell’ a thing. Especially not weapons of war and ‘empire expanding’ invasions. You can search all you like, there is zero, zilch, nada evidence of Indigenous Australians attacking any other countries. Likewise, Indigenous Australians didn’t flee Australia seeking asylum elsewhere. Despite conclusive evidence that they made the most amazing sea and land journey ever. And were miles in front with ‘technological’ adaptations. Some screech ‘vere farkin’ well is, we just ain’t found it yet aaaye but!!?? So’s vere must be aayyee!!!’
Times have changed. Which Cultural Group has by far the best success record dealing with time, and monumental change? 80,000 years is a long, long, long time. The answer is right under our noses.
We need a whole new outlook. An injection of new ideas and thinking. Not the same old, same old weapons and marketing them ideology. That’s got about as much chance of saving ice addicts by having them starting up new drug labs and flogging the ‘produce’. Great for all!!!
We need to look right under our noses, and join forces with the best ever. Open hearts and minds. The best of two worlds.
Indigenous Australians have a history of deep, profound thinking, in dealing with life here, matched by an unrivalled success.
‘There is Indigenous leadership on these questions that is both visionary and practical. In 1987, Kevin Gilbert, a Wiradjuri man, produced a comprehensive critique of Australia’s claims to sovereignty, and the need to recognise the sovereignty of Indigenous peoples.
Irene Watson, a Tanganekald and Meintangk Boandik legal scholar and professor, points out that crises such as climate change are a call for a new relationship between Indigenous and non-Indigneous Australians and our environment. She shows how Indigenous moral and relational values provide a sound basis on which to build those new relationships.
Victoria Grieves, a Warraimaay historian, foresees a Republic of Australia based on the sovereignty of Aboriginal peoples. She says:
Australia could achieve absolute decolonisation and shared sovereignty and live up to the reputation we like to have, as a nation deeply concerned with human rights and social justice.
It is wrong-headed to think of “embracing” Indigenous peoples. Those with a western heritage must relinquish their arrogance, rewrite the distortions of their history, and place Indigenous interests at the forefront of social, economic and political concern.
We need to look beyond symbols to restitution: compensation, reparations and resource sharing. Indigenous peoples, through seeking a treaty, invite us to share in building an honourable future. Surely we can agree that Australia is worth it.’
Or we could just kill and blow everything up and sell what’s left. Like them ‘good ‘ol boys’. Yeeehhhaaar!!!!!
Worked for 30 plus years in automated and chemical manufacturing and unfortunately got to say Australian management were without exception woeful and inept.
All the tech came from overseas and R&D development pretty much non existent mostly just short term thinking of running places down squeezing $ for CEO benefits.
Been around for 80,000 years and ya can guarantee not one of them would of been as mental as you!
I love it!
In a nutshell!
Around for 80000 years and they were dispossessed because they couldnt defend themselves.
I can’t put forward any better example of why we need weapons than that,
You just summon up all ya fortitude and skills(sic) goofing, and take your inevitable, monumental plunge, (commonly called a ludicrous plummet) out of the lip at ulu’s, and then make that amazing, life threatening, ‘what do I do now’... again... life changing, hundred metre sea voyage to padang. The behemoth craft you’ve spectacularly and craftily selected for the task could float entire nations without anyone getting their hair wet... not that that follicular activity, (follies so to speak) are an issue for some. In a nutshell!!!
Sometimes you just have to laugh, no idea how he brings the same old same lines and discussion into any and every discussion.
‘War and blood bath, bloodshed forever!!!’
‘Two wrongs make a right!!?’
Obviously you can’t make a better argument than that blowindo. That’s just lazy, good for nothing, ‘good ‘ol boy’ thinking. Selfish, ‘cut your nose off to spite your face’, easy way out stuff. Get out of the gun turret for once in your life. Peer through your beloved, blood stained ‘red mist’ diaries.
As I said we need an injection of new, much more advanced thinking. Despite our criminal history, Indigenous Australians are advanced enough to truly forgive. And offer much more advanced, long term, inclusive solutions. The big picture.
Or we could just kill and blow everything up and sell what’s left. Like them ‘good ‘ol boys’. Yeeehhhaaar!!!!!‘
Reality of the world.
I don’t make the rules.
If you had any kind of comprehension skills you’d realise that my “ toe to toe “ post is anti violence.
Unfortunately, some people don’t subscribe to this doctrine and without weapons we are at their mercy .
Just like the first Australians.
"Those with a western heritage "
What about those Australians with different heritages?
Like Middle Eastern, African, South American, Asian, Polynesian etc
Blowin, my reading of the article was that it was specific to defence industries. It pointed out that they are highly competitive and Australia, as a late starter, would struggle to create a competitive industry. The suggestion is that any support given to defence industries would be better spent in other areas. Australia should have a manufacturing industry but it needs to be in niche areas where we have an advantage of some sort. Defence, according to that article is not one of these areas.
'If you had any kind of comprehension skills you’d realise that my “ toe to toe “ post is anti violence. '
Spare me the sob story. You bought a 'heavy bag' to beat up. Out of all the things you could do, to stay fit. By the way, not very practical, old boxers don't retire fit. Lo and behold, 2 foot waves, shit, you get it to yourself all day, get stoned, and want to rule the roost, ignoring surfing lore. You want pole position, drop in on a local, gee whiz, its on. Try that anywhere, its on. You wanted it, you got it, a chance to 'reflex jab'. Walk away? No, you take on women and children as well.
Now you, Mr 'I'm proud of me real bright red mist reflexin', want more guns.
Anything but admit the Indigenous Australians have a better ideology. 80,000 years. Peace, inclusive thinking, or a continued history of separation and world war.
'Victoria Grieves, a Warraimaay historian, foresees a Republic of Australia based on the sovereignty of Aboriginal peoples. She says:
'Toe to toe' is quickly reaching fable status.
More defeatist thinking , BB.
Australia can be a force in military hardware as it can with any form of manufacturing . As with any successful product , it doesn’t matter how it’s produced already , if you can improve it or provide an effective alternative then you are in business.
It’s been done before by Australians.
Any advance in tech or manufacturing process achieved whilst attempting this outcome is a bonus. And also a very real possibility.
HappyasS -I wish I had a block of wax for every time Lifty linked to it.
“you get it to yourself all day, get stoned and want to rule the roost “
This is getting embarrassing for you . Did you even read the story ? Are you even able to read the story ?
And I’m not supposed to hit a punching bag now ? Shows my blood lust I guess.....Jesus Christ .
You’re getting desperate now you’ve had your major accusation of “ bullshitter “ dismantled.
How is the night looking for you , Lifty ?
I know you’re not into the ABC . Nor a fan of SBS or CNN.
But I bet you love it when you get a couple of mates around and you get filled to the rim with BBC.
And Lifty , please don’t ever confuse my lack of respect for you with any imagined lack of respect for indigenous Australians.
I reckon that they’ve got a great culture and were royally fucked over . It’s you I think is the throwback.
Beyond pitiful happyass. How's ya list wannabe. Swillnuttin' fitness superstar. A few months ago, no idea questions. Now a swillnuttin' intermediate expert fitness badboy. Peering out between the proven bullshit artist blowindo team legs forever. Forever in a nutshell. Just come in to the gym, save all your loser, beating around the bush, chickenshit bullshit. I'll hand you 10 clients on a plate. We'll video it. Personal training fails extraordinaire. Chickenshit bullshitter, in a nutshell.
Take your 'red mist act' to anywhere bullshit artist blowindo. You got off lightly. 'East a albany'? 'Mmmmaaayyytee... 'Limestone bad boy, in the loop'.? Bullshitter. You deleted (again) your pitiful, desperate plea. Because it was looking even worse. Swillnut bullshit artist in a nutshell. King of the dooozies.
Most fitting description I’ve seen for your posts is “ Like the clues to a cryptic crossword “ . It says a lot about the state of tertiary education if you’ve attained any kind of course completion when you can’t put forward a legible thought on an Internet forum.
Best nickname was “ Biff Tannen “
PS Did you just dare someone to come to a gym for a trainers challenge !!!!
Let me guess.....you eat pieces of shit like me for breakfast.
Holy fucking shit . There’s no way I could make you look any more stupid than your own thoughts.
Anyway , it was distracting haggling with you , but now it’s boring again.
Yep, like I said, carry on swillnut bullshittin'!!?? You won't miss a beat. King of the doozies. In a nutshell. Forever!!!