What's what?

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Shatner'sBassoon started the topic in Friday, 6 Nov 2015 at 7:48pm

AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.

LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 4:44pm

Remember the ABC is more than just ABC TV or radio, you also have Triple J which is very left wing in it's views.

I listen to ABC radio most days and I think some of the presenters try to be neutral but unfortunately they can't help themselves to allow their personal views to show.

Same with certain ABC TV shows some are pretty good providing different view points while some are extremely bias and even peddle bias propaganda.

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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 5:23pm

Bullshit. Where's your evidence? come on fella, give us precise examples of how the ABC "is extremely biased" and how it "even peddles bias propaganda" ..... and this tripe from someone who desires "neutrality" from the ABC yet regularly expresses sympathy for the views expressed by Hanson and Trump. Not entirely balanced that lot.

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factotum commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 5:30pm

I always thought the ABC was biased.

Biased towards thinking people.

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thermalben commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 5:40pm

TBH I haven't been following this thread, but I thought I'd jump in here with a tweet from Leigh Sales (tried to find another one she wrote about how she "must be doing a good job" if she's copping abuse from both the left and the right at the same time). 

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thermalben commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 5:43pm

Just a thought: perhaps there's an assumption that the ABC is left leaning because the Liberals are in government - and are therefore being held to account?

As they bloody well should be.

Of course, if Labor gets into power, then I'd expect the pendulum to swing. The ABC will start interrogating their every decision (as they should) and left wing voters will claim the ABC is right wing.

The circle of life.

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thermalben commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 5:45pm

Shit. I've entered a political thread.

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factotum commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 6:20pm

All roads lead back to the 'unflushable turd', John Winston Howard:

"The present situation has a long and intense pre-history, in which the most turbulent phase was the nineteen months between March 2000 and December 2001, widely known as “the ABC of turmoil,” when Jonathan Shier was managing director. Shier, described by staff as a “megalomaniac,” was accused of instituting a culture of bullying and intimidation. During his short reign, he oversaw a total of 390 redundancies, removed the heads of all departments responsible for program content, and subjected the assembled staff in the news and current affairs division to a ninety-minute dressing down, the purport of which, in the words of its then director Max Uechtritz, was “to disparage, demean, harangue and threaten.”

And:

"A strong convention decreed that those entering board meetings would “park their guns at the door.” But the convention was breached decisively during the Howard years, when ministerial interference from Richard Alston took on an unprecedented degree of antagonism.

During a single month in 2003, Alston filed sixty-eight complaints of bias against the ABC. The board was stacked with overtly political appointments: Victorian Liberal powerbroker Michael Kroger, Marxist-turned-conservative historian Keith Windschuttle, the zealous right-wing columnist Janet Albrechtsen. Kroger made it clear from the outset that he would not be parking his gun at the door, stating in a 2002 Lateline interview that he did not think ABC news and current affairs reporting was balanced, and that he intended to keep saying that “at the board meetings and outside.”

In an interview with Mark Colvin for ABC Radio’s PM, Inglis described Windschuttle as a “provocative” choice because he had made a public statement that the ABC should be privatised in order “to break its Marxist culture.” Albrechtsen, who (apparently by managerial decree) made appearances on Q&A, published virulent attacks on the program in her column in the Australian. All three have associations with the right-wing Institute of Public Affairs: Kroger and Albrechtsen as directors, and Windschuttle as a favoured speaker and writer."

https://insidestory.org.au/cutting-on-the-bias/

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 6:22pm

Okay here is one perfect example.

In 2016 a current affair was given access to Nauru detention centre and did a story that was surprisingly very neutral it showed conditions refugees were under etc, but also allowed refugees to speak out and tell their side of things, so it wasn't all roses.

Very soon after 4 corners did an episode which was basically refugee advocates and refugees speaking for the majority of the program, interlaced with very old outdated footage of Nauru that they knew 100% was no longer an accurate representation of the facilities.

ACA even contacted them and were willing for the ABC to use their more recent footage but four corners rejected this as off course that would not have fitted in to the agenda that they wanted to portray.

The government themselves even have a reply as a PDF doc on their website (wont let me share link as just comes up as a PDF doc) but come up if you google "4 corners refugees"

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/nauru-detention-centre-the-...

ABC are possibly the most misleading and bias reporters of refugees issues, they would love everyone to believe all refugees are locked in the centre still in tents, when in reality is over 80% of refugees live in the community, about 30+ run business of some sort, and of the one thousand plus a few hundred have jobs.

Even SBS are more honest https://www.sbs.com.au/news/nauru-s-culinary-boom-locals-reap-the-reward...

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 6:24pm

But if people can't see the bias in ABC media then i don't think myself or anyone else will be able to change that mindset as it's already as plain as day.

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factotum commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 6:56pm

You don't watch much ABC do you?

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atticus commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 7:07pm

The Daily Terrorgraph vs 4 Corners, you're either far dimmer than I imagined or you're trolling.

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atticus commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 7:08pm

Have you ever thought, even for a fleeting moment, that it's you who is biased??

No, I didn't think so.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 7:15pm

Tv wise id watch about 50% commercial and 25% SBS and 25% ABC and radio wise i listen to the ABC about 75% of the time pretty much everyday at work.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 7:31pm

@Atticus both are reports from ACA, ACA obviously got access because the Nauru government knew that it wouldn't be bias reporting against them, if you google the video which is on Youtube you will see its a very neutral video.

I think in theory the ABC aims to be neutral and i think as a organisation they really try to be neutral, problem is everybody has their own beliefs and views and it's hard not to allow that bias to surface even if it's unconscious bias.

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atticus commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 7:50pm

Indo-Dreaming,

The Pacific Solution has been a windfall for the Nauruan govt. To continue the flow of funds from Australia - which they need now that the strip-mining of phosphate has collapsed - they have to present an agreeable face. So who would they choose, an organisation with a track record of diligent research, or one that has a track record of facile non-eventism?

This isn't conspiracy, the invitation was fought over by two commercial network programs, neither of which would ask tough questions, and each of which had a viewership that likes it that way thank you very much.

It was public relations stunt orchestrated by the people up top and you fell for it without asking the simplest of questions.

The reason Caroline Marcus poodled up with the Terrorgraph was pride - no-one likes to think they've been played.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 8:31pm

@atticus

Off course it has that's why Nauru agreed to house refugees there Nauru was close to or pretty much was a failed state before the deal its now much much better off a lot of money has been spent on medical facilities and education which doesn't just benefit refugees it benefits Nauru and its people.

But end of the day you can't change the facts that are told and shown in the ACA Nauru report.

Many like the ABC would like us to believe refugees are locked up behind wire fences and housed in tents etc when the reality is the government have tried to move as many people into the community as possible, because it's pretty hard for refugee advocates to claim things like torture etc when people are living in the community.

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 8:44pm

Oh one other that came to mind Triple J moving the hottest 100 from Australia day to the day after.

I think much of the problem comes down to a few different things.

Most media has to make money so it focuses on as wide audience as possible and very varied topics, people often say lots of mainstream media is right wing but it's not it has both views you will get Bolt saying one thing then on the next page you will have the total opposing view.

With the ABC you don't have this you you don't have any Andrew Bolts, maybe Macca would be as close as you get.

You also get a focus on minority groups and a bit, LGBT, Indigenous, refugees etc but nowhere as heavy as SBS so this kind of adds to the left wing feel.

I mean personally although i don't agree with everything on the ABC i still like to listen and watch just because it is an alternative too the mainstream and digs a little deeper into some of these issues that mainstream does, also music wise even ABC radio plays less commercial type music even if not always the style i like.

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GuySmiley commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 8:41pm

Comparing ACA with 4 Corners is like comparing a turd sandwich with a perfectly cooked eye fillet yet I digress for I need to acknowledge we are back to one of Indo's two "expert" topics: namely all things refugees and Aboriginals. Ever thought on going on HARD QUIZ ?

Some history: Corruption in Nauru runs deep and long. On the corner of Little Collins and Exhibition Streets in Melbourne is a 52 story office block built by the Nauruan Government and completed in 1977 to future proof the country when the phosphate ran out. Worth a read how it was all lost and how loans to GE (yes that US multi national) needed to be repaid.

But lets forget the corruption in Nauru for a minute along with the AU money pouring onto the country. Lets assume ACA got it right and 4 Corners were caught red handed peddling its leftist manifesto. So if is all true giving the political sensitivities of the issue where is the government sanctions? the ministerial press releases condemning the ABC?

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indo-dreaming commented Thursday, 27 Sep 2018 at 8:48pm

I use to think the same i use to think ACA is trash and much of it is, but then i saw that 4 corners episode and i can't watch 4 corners anymore because i cant trust what they are presenting...and that really sucks.

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blindboy commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 5:55am

A concept that needs to be considered here is that balance does not mean giving bullshit, lies and propaganda equal time with objective reporting. Nor does it mean that every political point of view should be represented as equally valid. It is obviously in the interest of those pushing bullshit to claim that they are being treated unfairly. For example, balance does not include giving equal time to Flat Earthers, Holocaust deniers or climate change deniers as there is over whelming evidence that they are simply WRONG!

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 6:59am

Off course not but those are extreme examples Blindboy.

listening to ABC radio i often hear host like Jon faine present a story and try to give two perspectives, but you also can clearly hear and feel what side he supports which is generally left leaning, to be fair it would be pretty hard not to allow your own views and thoughts to not come across though and off course it happens in the commercial area, its just that the commercial area is not paid by the tax payer.

I think as an organisation they try to be neutral but presenters and programs bias shows and because it's non commercial you seem to attract presenters that are more alternative and generally left leaning.

Like i said i listen to ABC radio i watch a decent amount of ABC TV as i like non commercial outlets and its generally free from a lot of other BS, but saying there is no bias is pretty crazy, yeah sure they always scrutinise the government in power but almost all presenters etc come across as left leaning and obvious supporters of Labor.

And I'm not anti labor, on social issues i tend to support liberals but I've never actually voted liberal just because I'm not a high income earner, if I'm going to vote one of the major parties i will vote Labor just because they are more likely to provide better perks for average Aussie, although i often think these perks are crazy.

I can fully understand why the liberals wouldn't be happy with the ABC especially when complete misinformation is knowingly presented like in the ABC for corners episode or when JJJ pushes an agenda like moving hottest 100 from Australia day.(just two examples)

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Blowin commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:23am

Isn’t it lucky that no one posting on Swellnet is ever wrong then , BB .

PS Have you got any stats available on the subject of flat Earth ? I’m not so sure I’m entirely convinced of this whole “ Earth is spherical “ rumour.

I’m not completely sold that the Earth doesn’t just come to a blinding halt somewhere in the middle of an ocean. Actually, now that I think of it , why is the end of the Earth always positioned in a remote part of the Pacific?

Maybe the edge of the world is land based ? It might be lurking over the rise in one of the quiet streets around here that Ive never ventured down .

At least that explains why the holiday makers from Perth insist on never exceeding 15 kms an hour and coming to a complete halt in the middle of the road whilst they’re driving around here. This makes me look bad. I’ve been assuming they were irritating rubber necks with no concept that their holiday destination isnt just a quaint regional Australia theme park and the typical driver courtesies don’t apply.

My mistake.

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goofyfoot commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:13am

I haven't been following this at all as it bores the fark out of me, but I had a quick glance this morning and this little snippet from Indo D is a classic. He seems like one confused human!

"And I'm not anti labor, on social issues i tend to support liberals but I've never actually voted liberal just because I'm not a high income earner, if I'm going to vote one of the major parties i will vote Labor just because they are more likely to provide better perks for average Aussie, although i often think these perks are crazy."

Wowza

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Blowin commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:25am

You been getting any waves , Goofy ?

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:42am

At least I'm honest Goofyfoot.

I could give my vote to liberals because i think overall they are better at running the country, but I'm not a high income earner and Labor generally look after people like me so end of the day I'm going to vote for what benefits me dollar wise, and I'm not at all alone in this view, i think its how many people vote.

It has nothing to do with confusion?

Am i selfish, yeah okay I'm putting myself before what i believe might be best overall for the country, so yeah cool I'm selfish but not confused.

A great example of a benefit of voting labor is a about 2011/2012 Labor raised the tax-free threshold from $6000 to $18,200 which personally has probably been the biggest.

But to be honest these days i just walk in there get my name ticked off grab my paper, put a line through it and put it in the box.

Because both parties don't really satisfy what I'm after, on one hand i support Liberals on social issues and think they do run the country better, but like i said on the other hand Labor are more likely to feather my nest.

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thermalben commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:36am

What 4 Corners episode are you referencing?

I watch it almost every week, and find their investigative journalism to be without peer.

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atticus commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:43am

Indo Dreaming said "But end of the day you can't change the facts that are told and shown in the ACA Nauru report".

Guess who never watched Behind The News as a kid.

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goofyfoot commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:45am

Just enough Blowin

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goofyfoot commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:48am

You're probably right Into D, like i said this stuff doest interest me much. I'll go back to commenting about herc

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 8:16am

" ... on one hand i support Liberals on social issues and think they do run the country better ...."

What do you mean by social issues?

How do you think the last 5.5 years have gone under Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison then?

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 8:38am

Social issues are generally non economic issues although some issues like immigration cross over.

A great example of a social issue is the same sex marriage debate.

In general i think all Australian governments do a good job i think liberals have done a fine job, yeah sure you can always find negatives in areas, but end of the day the economy is healthy and quality of life for most is high.

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 8:50am

@atticus

I guess it just depends if you think the episode was filmed on Nauru or if it was filmed in a special made set in Melbourne with refugee actors?

Much of the media paints a certain picture of Nauru the majority of the public still think Refugees are housed in tents locked up behind wire fences, if you see an ABC story almost always you will get an old picture of people behind wire fences even tents.

This is extremely misleading.

here is a recent example http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-05/nauru-blocks-transfer-of-mentally-...

and http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-16/12-year-old-refugee-with-resignati...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-06/when-asylum-seekers-stop-where-wil...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-22/resignation-syndrome-and-why-is-it...

Reality is both Nauru and Manus have been open centres for years refugees can come and go 24/7

All refugees (all male no women or children) on Manus are free to live in the community but only a few do so, on Nauru like I've said over 80% of refugees live in the community.

All refugees receive everything they need, housing, food all bills paid for, plus an extra spending allowance, while they are also still free to work as a few hundred on Nauru do about 30 + even run business everything from local taxi service to restaurants/cafe etc

As mentioned above you can assume the reason the government has done this is because unlike when housed in a detention centre with guards etc it's pretty hard to make allegations of abuse, torture, by guards or whoever or whatever when families are independently living in the community even employed.

However you still see misleading media especially from refugee advocate groups on things like medical faciltys and education, when the reality is all refuge children own Nauru are able to go to community school, schools even have Australian teachers and education based on Australian curriculum https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/e...

And for a small island nation the medical facilities and staff is ridiculous

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/h....

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Blowin commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 9:54am

Media watch !

The Guardian : No matter what you think about women....you’re wrong.

First this - How dare you equate the actions of one woman with all women. Typical misogynistic attitude !

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/sep/27/which-female-celebrity-e...

Then on the same day :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/27/what-christine-bla...

Confused ?

Good . You’re meant to be.

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factotum commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 11:01am

"Tv wise id watch about 50% commercial and 25% SBS and 25% ABC and radio wise i listen to the ABC about 75% of the time pretty much everyday at work."

"Most media has to make money so it focuses on as wide audience as possible and very varied topics, people often say lots of mainstream media is right wing but it's not it has both views you will get Bolt saying one thing then on the next page you will have the total opposing view."

"With the ABC you don't have this you you don't have any Andrew Bolts, maybe Macca would be as close as you get."

"And I'm not anti labor, on social issues i tend to support liberals but I've never actually voted liberal just because I'm not a high income earner, if I'm going to vote one of the major parties i will vote Labor just because they are more likely to provide better perks for average Aussie, although i often think these perks are crazy."

"Because both parties don't really satisfy what I'm after, on one hand i support Liberals on social issues and think they do run the country better, but like i said on the other hand Labor are more likely to feather my nest."

"But if people can't see the bias in ABC media then i don't think myself or anyone else will be able to change that mindset as it's already as plain as day."

Wow! That's some next level stuff to digest. Cheers for giving us an insight into a certain kind of thinking there, Indo Dreaming.

Oh yeah, I forgot. Bolt hasn't been on commercial free-to-air television since The Bolt Report was cancelled 2 years ago? Oh yeah, and before that commercially unsuccessful show he used to be a regular on The Insiders for years. Ever watch that show, Indo Dreaming? It's on the ABC.

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GuySmiley commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 10:50am

While I thought you would highlight these I don't see SSM or refugees as social issues at all although they do go directly to the soul of the nation and how we view ourselves, both very divisive issues and politically deliberately so.

I once worked for a government department called community and social services. It had responsibility for child care, age care, disability services, and Aboriginal services. But its more than that its also legal aid, child welfare, all the benefits Centrelink make and their clients, Veterans Affairs and the list goes on to broaden out to education from kindergartens to uni. In summary its the knitting that holds us together as a "society".

" .... i think liberals have done a fine job, yeah sure you can always find negatives in areas, but end of the day the economy is healthy and quality of life for most is high". I've seen AU as the driverless bus for the last 5.5. years, its hurtling down the road, sure its making progress, but in what direction and what of the lost opportunity?

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factotum commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 11:12am

Actually, here's a thing. Any of you others on here regional? Get the WIN network? Remember when the owner of the WIN Corporation, Bruce Gordon, and Lachlan Murdoch teamed up last year to try and buy the TEN Network, got the green-light from the Libs, but then got out-foxed by CBS? Anyway, now this is happening!

https://mumbrella.com.au/sky-news-to-run-on-free-to-air-television-in-de...

Sky After Dark sees the light of free-to-air day...sort of! Some of you may be excited. In good ways. Maybe.

Meanwhile...

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/sep/27/abc-board-members-appointe...

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stunet commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 11:10am

"Vanessa Guthrie had been a mining executive and is on the board of Santos, and is chair of the coal industry’s lobby group, but she had no broadcasting experience and her executive roles appeared to have been limited to smaller mining companies."

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loungelizard commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 11:19am

"I do believe the broadcasters news and current affairs has strayed too far to the left" graham Richardson in todays Australian . any more questions? just shows the idiocy of guysmiley etc if you cant recognise what Richardson acknowledges. I mean its not a crime but it is obvious, and board appointments have always never had any impact on underlying culture/bias so pointing to board appointments also demonstrates the usual stupidity. and really , why does there need to be a government sponsored youth radio station? I reckon grinspoon would have made it without them. its a crock.. always had a bit of a "hitler youth" ring about it to me

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Westofthelake commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 11:23am

Facto, I have tuned into the Channel 53 for a bit of a laugh. Never seem to last long though. Never excited....always seem to end up back at Channel 24.

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factotum commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 1:10pm

Graham Richardson in today's Australian??

Really, Lounge Lizard, I think I'll stick to Indo Dreaming's analyses, thank you.

I'm sure he's across it. He's a regular Drum viewer for one. I think?

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Westofthelake commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 11:31am

@loungey,
of course Richo would say that. When you're so far to the right anything would seem left.

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 3:07pm

@ Guysmiley

Really i think SSM was a perfect example of a social issue.

All the definitions i read say the same/similar thing.

"A social issue is an issue that relates to society's perception of people's personal lives. Different societies have different perceptions and what may be "normal" behaviour in one society may be a significant social issue in another society."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_issue

or

"A social issue is a problem that influences a considerable number of the individuals within a society. It is often the consequence of factors extending beyond an individual's control, and is the source of a conflicting opinion on the grounds of what is perceived as a morally just personal life or societal order."

https://www.definitions.net/definition/social%2Bissues

Anyway really not important

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 3:11pm

People might not believe this but to be honest i had no idea what the current ABC saga was about as haven't had the radio on this week or been tuned into AFL stuff. (SEN)

But i picked up the paper today and had to laugh that this saga in part seems to involve Jon faine, funny because i mentioned him yesterday in my comments and his bias.

BTW. Don't get me wrong, i do actually like him, but just think he can be a bit bias.

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indo-dreaming commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 3:17pm

@factotum

Ive never watched the Drum, but now curious too so will check it out.

Apart from selective issues I'm not that into politics, listening to ABC radio is about as much as i can take to keep updated on news and politics occasionally i might tune into RRR which is completely left bias

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I focus commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 3:32pm

4 Corners has raised how many issues that resulted in how many Royal Commissions?

Isn't that what a community truly representative media organisation meant to do for the benefit of Australians?

As for bias it's not meant to represent political fringes it's meant to call them out.

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GuySmiley commented Saturday, 29 Sep 2018 at 8:06am

Of course SSM is an important social issue for the reactionary right but for the vast majority of the electorate its a very narrow view of the world.

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I focus commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 5:51pm

SSM, didn't the majority vote yes and in most conservative electorates , doesn't that mean that its / was main stream issue not left or right?

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factotum commented Friday, 28 Sep 2018 at 7:01pm

Seems a lot don't know their right from their left. And you'll find they're usually hobbling around with 2 rights on, anyway, and still whinging it all hurts!

Indo Dreaming, while you're in an investigative mood, check out the IPA: the Institute of Public Affairs. They get a real good run on the ABCs Drum. Actually, Mitch Fifield, the minister who appointed this ABC board, happens to be a card-carrying member!

Nothing to see there.

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blindboy commented Saturday, 29 Sep 2018 at 4:16am

A few observations comparing UK and Australian politics. The first is to hope that someone sits Bill Shorten down and forces him to watch Jeremy Corben’s speech to the UK Labour Conference . It was a model of inspirational Labour leadership.

The second is that the same factors that drove the US to the right look like they will drive the UK to the left. The question then is which way will Australia go. I think there is the potential for Labor to move to the left if they have the right policies and a good communicator as leader.

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indo-dreaming commented Saturday, 29 Sep 2018 at 7:18am

Don't know how that works Blindboy seeing the factors that drove the USA slightly right wards and rightwards trend elsewhere is globalisation.