Submitted by Shatner'sBassoon on Fri, 11/06/2015 - 19:48
AN ALL-ENCOMPASSING KALEIDOSCOPIC JOIN-THE-DOTS/ADULT COLOURING BOOK EXPERIMENTAL PROJECT IN NARCISSISTIC/ONANISTIC BIG PICTURE PARASITIC FORUM BLEEDING.
LIKE POLITICAL LIFE, PARTICIPATION IS WELCOME, ENCOURAGED EVEN, BUT NOT NECESSARY.
Sharp as a bowling ball, comrades.
Clive was the biggest swinger in our election. What's that tell us? And then there was Pauline.
Their preference deals got the Libs over the line for a one seat majority in the HoR.
Hmmm, maybe y'all see Pauline & Clive as an escape.
Then again, some people see drugs, masturbation, and Disneyland the same way.
But I like your logic - anyone who can package-up all three is bound to be able to sell tickets to somebody.
Anyway, address the issues, huh, Sepp?
How about your 'reading and comprehension' issues?
Here's just one example...
"So, being who we really are, how the fuck is a political party gonna get 'radical' in this country for reals?
Whitlam's government got dismissed! Gillard's, even with her relatively pissy reforms and programs and policies (well to me), got crucified by the media. And now Labor going forward with even pissier reforms (again to me) didn't even get a guernsey.
Meanwhile the Libs are a worsening abomination that we keep voting in directly and by proxy (hello Pauline & Clive!)"
Notice the ironical quotation marks around the word 'radical'? Maybe work from there, and see how you go...
I'm betting not.
Ah, a trip down (goldfish) memory lane...
"Geez you love your labels andym, not disputing them, but you must read a lot of politics and stuff to be so clear and confident with your definitions
I wouldn't say I'm centrist at all, I actually have quite radical beliefs on some issues. Possibly you could call me a fiscal conservative I guess, but really that's me just being a realist and compromising, because that's what politics is supposed to be...compromise. I wish someone would spread that word amongst some on the left.
"Imagine this country as one which said no to pork barrelling, said no to the majority of middle class welfare and corporate welfare, had big companies which paid tax, and made an honest attempt at reconciliation." [Andy M]
Really? I'm dreaming?
It doesn't sound that fanciful to me."
"Vote 1 clive palmer, for an oz trump style disruption
Who's a good boy, Sepp...?
we just had our oz trump style disruption
Not really vj. Morrison is lots of things but he is not Trump. We are also fortunate that we have, at least at the moment, a much more robust political system. Now if Clive became PM ............
I was joking
I was only making that joke because I thought the situation was so dire I reckoned a vote for anyone but labor and liberal was a good choice
I still think that
I didn't vote for clive, I barely voted for anyone right of ghandi. And I also didn't vote labor or libs either
I don't mean to gloat, but I'm quite chuffed with my participation in this election, if you're interested
"Their preference deals got the Libs over the line for a one seat majority in the HoR.
nah, went nowhere near them, them or the libs
""So, being who we really are, how the fuck is a political party gonna get 'radical' in this country for reals?
I'm betting not."
I did understand that facto
I'm not asking for radical, I've learnt to temper my radical, because it's, you know, radical. and I really wish some of your mates would do the same...
I don't think radical is required. Its not radical to suggest kerbing the rampant privatisation that's now well into the untouchables. The public is screaming for this shit.
but not a word from labor
just more middle of the road economic status quo shit sandwich ie. sell everything, and a dash of wokeness to please the 'progressives'
this ain't really working anymore. not at all actually...
the link between opportunities for renewables and getting some state control over essential services is the way forward, stunet laid it all out in the other thread
this thinking isn't radical at all. I hear some of the most miserable-est ON voting, v8 driving, grumblebums talk this way all the time.
the soccer mums are in on it too, it's barely an argument. even nationals voters think privatisation of electricity has been a rort, inner city aspirationals as well, fertile ground for the taking
most don't even know what neo liberalism is, but they know it's shit
definitely not radical
but it is for the labor party
I think it'll only be a semi 'radical' left-ish party that develops in the void that'll bring such change, like the one stunet described in the other thread
then they might form a dodgy coalition, like we've seen develop with the loopy righty parties
but it appears that's a long way away. I really reckon we're in for 6 years of shitmo. then, just maybe, the shambles may have sorted themselves out
ideology versus realpolitik?
too much ideology actually
too much of the cult like contemporary ideology and not enough of the good stuff...
labor's just looking in all the wrong places, all the time, guided by their ideology, which unfortunately is broken
Have to laugh at this typical excuses on why Labor lost because of Clive and One Nation....
I voted One nation as a kind of protest vote but i did so knowing the preference vote would go to the liberals, if there was no One nation i would have voted for another party who's preface went to liberals.
If there was no preference system i would have just bit my lip and voted Liberals, because in this election i wouldnt want to risk Labor getting in.
Fair to say most people had a similar mindset, people aren't stupid.
Factocum Just face the facts and stop making excuses, people voted against Labor, they did so because of an unlikable leader in Shorten, over the top policy that wasn't explained, over the top policy without costings (climate change) wish washy message on their stance in Adani (but much more likely not to go ahead under labor) and just basically the further move of Labor to become basically the new Greens party who's focus seems more and more on minority groups and BS like gender politics and keeping the inner city vote happy, rather than people in regional and country areas.
As I said before a lazy and complacent populace elected a lazy and complacent government. Research suggests that over 10% of voters made up their mind in the booth. This is appalling given the stark difference between the parties. All the surveys since the election show significant levels of disengagement to the extent that many voters had no idea of the policies of the parties they voted for. The deciding factor was the weakness of our laws which allow campaigns, such as Palmer's, based on the high frequency repetition of complete lies. Good governance depends to a large extent on the engagement of the populace. If people take little interest, governments listen to the vested interests. So Labor's shit policies? Care to expand on why you would believe an expansion of free child care, reducing government benefits to the already wealthy and better funding for cancer services are "shit"?
"Fair to say most people had a similar mindset, people aren't stupid."
And then in the next paragraph witness the badly digested, media fed junk (McRupe!) spewed up in all its 'manufactured vibe' glory.
The power and glory and insidiousness.
Australia! You're soaking in it!
See, Mrs Marsh, it does get in!
Of course we've got an ex-child actor from TV adverts AND ex-marketing flim flam man as PM!
It all makes sense now.
It's the vibe. The feels.
Can y'all feel it?
Say it with me, brothers and sisters, all together now...
HOW GOOD IS AUSTRALIA?!
One thing, V.I., at the very least, you don't pretend like some other Stooges on here.
You got the voting result you wanted and deserve.
Well done you.
An aside: how is Stockholm Syndrome treated and what is the best case time-frame for successful treatment?
We (well, the rest of us) haven't really got the time to fuck around.
So still no defence of the private students for public schools ?
Seems like all you do is fuck around until the subject changes.
Fuck around and peddle bullshit, repetitive bullshit at that...
"And then in the next paragraph witness the badly digested, media fed junk (McRupe!) spewed up in all its 'manufactured vibe' glory."
"Factocum Just face the facts and stop making excuses, people voted against Labor, they did so because of an unlikable leader in Shorten, over the top policy that wasn't explained, over the top policy without costings (climate change) wish washy message on their stance in Adani (but much more likely not to go ahead under labor) and just basically the further move of Labor to become basically the new Greens party who's focus seems more and more on minority groups and BS like gender politics and keeping the inner city vote happy, rather than people in regional and country areas."
This isn't just mcrupe talking, this is every media outlet across australia giving their analysis... including the abc,....though they are much more subtle, and passive agressive dismissive in their take...
but pretty much the same analysis across the country, across the spectrum
if you can't accept that, then you cannot accept reality
another week with the therapist perhaps?
or is your 'truth' the only truth?
"Not really vj. Morrison is lots of things but he is not Trump. We are also fortunate that we have, at least at the moment, a much more robust political system. Now if Clive became PM ............"
Australia is a much more moderate place compared to the other Western democracies. Our Trump moment isn't so much that we got Scomo (prepare for anything sold off for growth and development, more massive population ponzi) - but that so many working class voters deserted the Australian version of the Democrats - the ALP. When Hillary called many working and middle class Americans 'deplorables' she was sure she would still get over the line. The traveling Adani caravan went further, taking an adversarial message right into faces of country QLD voters. Slightly less controversial than Macron's diesel tax hike and its results...
The result mirrors what happened throughout the American heartland, ultimately electing Trump. It was a deluge of votes for One Nation and Clive (check how Joel Fitzgibbons' electorate voted), who, if they have any sense, will be leaning on Scomo to remind him just what their preferences mean to his government. (For example, contrast the ON policies on manufacturing and energy sovereignty with the Libs, starkly different) Lib vote went slightly backward, if you all remember...
If ALP want to win, they might consider championing the conditions and opportunity of working Commonwealth-born Australians, and taking moves to keep their cost of living low (the national Gas and Electric stuff mentioned above), stop their wages from being diluted, and stop their university opportunities being diluted as well. These were policies of the ALP in times past.
I don't see the populace as lazy and complacent at all, I saw lifelong working people who were alarmed at what all the 'NG/FT/Carbon targets/Migrant grandparents/Christian schools unable to teach their view' policies might mean to them in their lives. (The NG part of the ALP ticket was good, as it would remove a great distortion in RE pricing, but yeah it didn't go down well with the older crew. ALP health policies are usually excellent, as well.) There was probably even more angst in country QLD.
I'm sensing a disconnect for you older guys here, the types who were young in the Whitlam era. In surfing terms there's lots of respect, you guys blazed the paths, you have the wisdom and I enjoy your takes on these matters. Criticising the electorate as wrong or having some deficiency as they voted contrary to yourselves, will only blind you to their reasons - very real to them - for doing so, and being unable to have empathy for their point of view.
One thing I've noticed is the amount of guys on this forum who voted for none of the Lib/Lab/Grn - here's a trend right in front of us all. The times, they are a changin'.
vj the real issue in the election was that the Coalition and their partners took full advantage of our lax laws to conduct a totally negative campaign based on complete lies. These lies were blatant and obvious. So did people vote for lies they knew were lies, or were they too lazy to do a 5 minute fact check? I know what I think. The fact that it is politically unwise for Labor to say it doesn't make it untrue
Well said , VJ.
When people say it was our Trump like moment.
IMHO it's more that nobody expected Scomo to get back in just like no one expected Trump had a chance.
All the media was saying Hillary would get in easy and most thought this was true, all the media was saying Shorten would win as did myself and assume everyone else here, Scomo wasn't meant to have a chance, neither was Trump.
And they are both i guess from the more conservative side of politics.
But yeah Scomo is nothing like Trump.
"I'm not that politically savvy, but..."
Just keep it at that, comrades.
Minus the "but", hey?
Get with the program.
YOU are the program.
yep, you too facto
not related, and not a dig
interesting little culture war breaking out within the labor party.
albo's already sacked him for a crime no one's sure he's committed. tough guy refuses to step down, whole party apparatus steps up, muscling the muscle man, who looks like he's going nowhere in a battle for the culture of the labor party
and labor has no power to remove him, the only way he'll go is by the will of the union
this could get real messy...
Your media-fed feed is a gi-normous problem.
When's the penny ever gonna drop?
One thing (that we all know): stooges hate being called out for being stooged. And they usually direct their impotent anger at being stooged towards whoever it was that let them know they've been stooged in the first place.
How good is Australia?!
its not an attack facto
just an observation of a development
I like the big guy, I like macmanus too, it'll be most interesting to see it play out, as this won't be resolved in a news cycle, despite their best efforts to do so
stooge mooge subterfuge yuge
"So still no defence of the private students for public schools ?
Seems like all you do is fuck around until the subject changes."
Yep and still no answer or theory or even just an opinion from Factotum on how to prevent rorting of protection visa by plane arrivals.
Just the same old same old playing the man instead of the ball.
He’s a bottom feeder level politician. A wanna be in politics. Guaranteed he works the photocopier in some regional ALP branch. That’s why he takes any criticism of Labor personally.
He’s got the full resume :
Never answer a direct question
Attack people rather than ideas
Smear campaign and lies to deflect from personal deficiencies.
It’d be funny if he didn’t fuck up every discussion with his inane garbage.
This is a really good read. If you value alternative viewpoints, particularly those speaking far more than a grain of truth to countervail the proscribed narratives of the MSM.
Comments are equally as valuable.
I agree Blowin.
But what i dont get is if he is involved with labor and takes so much interest in politics why cant he answer the questions we have or even attempt to answer them?
But yeah i guess that's what politicians do, avoid answering questions.
Jeez, how's my new job? ALP photocopy boy! My job list is ever expanding! Busy times!
Well, according to you.
Lucky you're both so full of shit or else I'd never get to go surfing.
And speaking of shit and shitty subscriptions and "inane garbage", B.I., you might want to look up "proscribed", comrade.
Hahahaha. "Countervail" that, you gormless gronk.
In terms of the supposed privatisation of public education, I can only speak about the NSW system. The situation there has been essentially the same for many years in my experience. International students pay fees to attend NSW government schools and these fees are so substantial that they more than cover the costs involved. The fees go straight into the education budget increasing funding in an underfunded area. In some schools the increased enrollments also increase senior subject choices, advantaging local students. There is also an enormous benefit to language students in having a cohort of native speakers in the school. There is a link back there that explains how public education has been shafted by successive governments at both state and federal level. If you are actually interested in public education, that is the biggest problem it faces.
"There is a link back there that explains how public education has been shafted by successive governments at both state and federal level. If you are actually interested in public education, that is the biggest problem it faces."
There's the rub, Laurie. The MBers and the sucker subscribers and the pile-on pillocks AREN'T interested in public education and the biggest problem it faces.
So what's the real agenda?
Lemme guess...does it start with an I?
Ya gotta laff...
So Trumpy the bankrupternator is giving a medal to a man who is responsible for creating a legal method for mass theft.
All in the name of responsible economic management.....and prosperity for all.
So fucked up.
And top-end tax cuts an integral part of the only policy our incumbents took to the election...
Yeah, but, yeah, but...Labor.
Ya gotta laff indeed.
...... and of course they are playing dirty politics with them by refusing to split the bill so if Labor or any independent wants to vote against the tax cuts for the rich, they have to vote against them for those on low incomes also.
And in breaking "I really cannot begin to fathom how stupid you would have to be to believe" news...
Laurie - No , mate , the fees international students pay aren’t substantial , they are woefully inadequate and it leaves Australians to heavily subsidise the education of foreigners whilst also diminishing the standard of education for Australians.
Average fee paid by international students in Vicco is just over $10K per annum. 500 students would be paying $5M in fees yearly.
To construct a school for 500 students in Melbourne costs upward of $30M for the most basic of schools. This cost does not include the purchase of land which would be closer to $50M.
Then there are the running costs of the school , the interest owed on the borrowed money needed to build the school and the massive infrastructure impost required to look after 500 students , their parents and sibilants who are entitled to migrate and probably will.
Already it’s apparent that the whole idea is a waste of taxpayers money , of which there is already not enough to go around by a very large margin.
The premise is that the education is classed as an export , but this is erroneous as the student’s parents , and often the students themselves , will then mostly work within Australia to pay the students fees. So it’s not an export at all as the money to pay the fees is generated within Australia.
The whole scheme is the result of vested , rent seeking industries lobbying a compliant government who wishes to externalise any expense it possibly can - even if the externalities are a blatant fraud and in reality non -existent.
It’s a paper shuffle and a slight of hand for the budget which is detrimental to the standards of Australian education and at the expense of money which is needed to service our population.
Lower Australian educational standards = The nation declines
Lower Australian tax dollars available = The nation declines
More and more people on our fragile continent = The nation declines
More and more people competing for infrastructure, housing, all services and living space= The nation declines.
The entire concept of fee paying international students is only considerable as an opportunity to diversify the culture of our students and to expose them to new ideas. The value of this concept is already negligible and completely redundant in a society whereby half of the population is foreign born anyway.
The scheme is a joke and the ALP should be opposing the privatisation of our public education system on principle even before the evidence reveals it for the imposing scam it is.
There isn’t enough space for Australian kids in the school system. Victoria has a shortfall of 220 schools in the next 5 years on current population predictions. Leaving a budget shortfall of $12B which has to be borrowed.
"So what's the real agenda?
Lemme guess...does it start with an I?"
Re The Gulf ships, I was left speechless when the abc showed footage of alleged Iranian boat next to side of ship apparently removing a bomb that they apparently placed there!
If the US says it is true then it must be......not.https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/jun/14/footage-us-military...
In relation to the costs of international students, I can only comment on NSW where many schools, particularly in wealthy areas close to the city centre, have spare capacity due to the large number of private schools in those areas. Local students always have priority, so if a school is enrolling international students it is because they have spare capacity. In such cases the extra students make little or no difference to the running costs of the school and the staffing formula ensures that the costs of any additional teaching staff are easily met from the fees. The areas in which new schools are necessary are often in newly developed areas further from the city centre. Any analysis that assumes the total cost of a new school should be accounted to students who will never attend it and who have not displaced those who will from other schools, is simplistic and almost certainly motivated by issues other than that which they are pretending to address.
Sorry , Laurie, you must not be aware of the current shortfall of positions in Victoria’s public schooling system. Of course private international students will be displacing positions for Australian students.
It’s facile, simplistic and poor mathematics to estimate that the current 6000 international student intake could be absorbed within the very limited spare capacity available in Victoria,if indeed any spare capacity were to exist.
Would it be 100 private students at 60 schools or 200 private students at 30 schools that you think have spare capacity ?
These quantities alone reveal the error of your assumptions.
Of course there isn’t the spare capacity and of course the fees paid by these private students go nowhere near approaching the impost they incur on Australia. Let alone the impost incurred by their relatives who don’t even contribute fees.
And this is before the ALP has even instigated their policy to further privatise the public school system. Who knows what amounts of students they are planning on allowing?
Using the Tertiary school system as a guide , there is NO PLAN regarding how many fee paying foreign students can attend the public school system. As many as possible is the answer.
All accounts for requirements and costing of schools that I’ve provided stand . Australia gains nothing from this policy.
Thinly veiled and erroneous accusations as to motivations for providing such factual accounting are nothing more than a refusal to accept the truth and an attempt to elude it.
The plan by the ALP state government in Victoria to expand the privatisation of the public school system is just more of the same extreme neo-liberalism and corrupted and inept workings that Australians have come to expect from modern politics.
Australia needs true opposition to this corrosive style of government.
Third time's a charm again, Laurie. Well, if you count the MB wormhole cut n paste article they put up.
Jeez, flogging that MB horse or what, B.I.?! Gotta pretend to be getting your money's worth, I s'pose.
Go you good thing. I gotta sixer riding on ya next post.
Re: the gulf shonk, Westie, there's a sucker born etc etc. You know how it goes.
The reality is that it’s PRIVATE industry- migration agents particularly- lobbying for the increase. The schools see the carrot of cash dangled before them , just as the universities did, and create a market .
Didn’t you read the article ?
What about this little snippet:
“Dale Pearce, principal at Bendigo Senior Secondary College, said his school had to knock back two Chinese students who applied to enrol later this year, despite having capacity.
His was one of several schools to travel to China earlier this year to recruit students, and Mr Pearce told the ABC it had been "a little difficult" for the families to understand why their children would not be accepted after the recruitment drive.
He said the impact on the school's budget was "manageable", but he was more concerned about the "loss of face" and the established connections in the city of Fuzhou.”
Who do you think paid for this public school principal to travel to China to convince two students to attend his school ?
It’s migration agents and the “ consultation fees “ they pay to compliant principals behind this insidious business. Apparently the school didn’t need the money - there goes the underfunded- by - the -federal- LNP theory you push.
A suburban principal travelling to China and worrying about his school losing face in China .......9000kms from his fucking school !
It’s nothing more than a business. The privatisation of public schooling. The article states as much .
The ALP want to increase the privatisation of our public schools. Which will lead to the exact same result as the privatisation of tertiary education ....reduced standards , ignorant population, people trafficking with residency the true sale.
I’m not sure how you can defend it , or even why you would feel compelled to defend it ?
Is it pure reaction to anything I suggest ? Automatic opposition ?
Well , that’s meant to be the role of the ALP in Australian politics- to oppose shit ideas such as this one.
Australia needs a new major party to combat the extreme neoliberalism of the ALP/LNP duopoly.
Love your work, champ.
Not a fan of animal cruelty.
Your nag's shot.
So the schools and the government, who you claim are losing money on the deal, "see a carrot of cash dangled before them". Contradictory, confused, illogical? All over 0.5% of the enrollment in Victorian schools? Don't you have something more substantial to concern yourself with?
It’s a starting point , Laurie. Thin edge of the wedge.
There was a starting point for the privatisation of government assets once. That first department they were convinced by rent seekers that could be farmed out . Providing a short term fudge of the budget bottom line and to appease their lobbyists.
Those lobbyists with their brown bags of cash can be very persuasive.
You know the lobbyists who convinced governments that banks , roads , hospitals, land titles registry’s and the like are better off in private hands with the pubic underwriting all expenses whilst the owners take the super profits.
All whilst the service itself deteriorates.
If you think the ALP encouraging and expanding the privatisation of our schools is inconsequential I think that says more about yourself and the modern remnants of the Labor voting base than it does about anything else.
You have not supplied the slightest evidence that our public schools are being privatised. No matter how many international students they enrol they remain government owned public schools funded overwhelmingly by the taxpayer. A tiny percentage of fee paying international students does not change that.
And if you think it’s confusing that governments would privatise departments and services even though it’s a financial detriment, then you’re really showing your knowledge shortfalls in both economics and politics.
Take the land titles registration board of NSW .....profit making business, serving the community perfectly. Yet the government sold it .
Why , do you think ?
1/ Quick cash hit for a government. Even though the medium term returns from the registry would dwarf the immediate cash hit , and the cost to government of paying the now private registry to do its job would soon eat away all of that cash hit , the government wanted to bolster the budget short term to win votes and to be able to reallocate the funds from the sale.
Which leads us to point 2.
2/ Corruption. They get us - the taxpayers- on the sale , they get us on the spend of the windfall and they get us on the cost of providing a service we used to get for a much cheaper price with all returns going back to the community as wages , rather than profit to privateers.
Commonwealth bank. Land titles registry, Telstra.....and now the public school system.
If that doesn’t concern you then it’s time to take a walk in the hall of mirrors.
........usual tactic, change the subject, move to some nonsensical generalisation etc etc. Now we are off the front page I really don't feel the need to correct the toxic bullshit you post anymore, since there's no-one looking to be contaminated by it. Your main contribution to these forums has been to destroy them as a place for rational debate.