What's what?
Give it a rest you two before Ben decides to shut the forums down. People coming here for surf reports etc don't want to be confronted by obscenities on the front page. Take it off line somewhere I'm sure Stu would be delighted to give each of you the others email. Shut it eh?
You’re right , BB.
Enjoy.....
Mate as you know I can lose it too but this time it really is too much so just be the bigger man and let it go.
Agree with Blindboy, just let it go Blowin and don't interact with him.
Edit: I went back and re read most of that thread, no wonder you ended up letting loose by page 2, three people had already abused you, especially factum who just let loose, and then it just went on with niggles and niggles that were pretty much ignored the whole time....seems post towards the end are deleted though.
"The aim of argument and of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." Joseph Joubert.
Time for a timely musical interlude methinks
Meanwhile in Australia...
https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/ugly-row-rocks-studio-10-every-time...
Ah I dunno about all this. I guess I could just scroll past and ignore it but I just want to say there is some pretty unpleasant, ugly stuff getting chucked around on here these days and I honestly feel it’s getting worse. I don’t like censorship but could I propose a sin bin or something similar? Serial cunts or those who start slinging personal insults could be sin binned and banned from commenting for a day or something to take some of the heat out of some of these forums. I do not want to read personal insults and threats of physical violence on here. In my opinion it does not add any value to this site. Seriously boys, grow the fuck up and act like adults. It’s juvenile, pathetic behaviour. Those who sling mud are only losing ground.
Take a walk down the garden path to meet the fairies with Slomo Summary. Believes he can chat with Jesus whenever he likes, believes in the devil, thinks the end is nigh, doesn't believe in evolution, doesn't care about climate change.
https://www.themonthly.com.au/issue/2019/february/1548939600/james-boyce...
100% Tinfoil hat. I was thinking the same thing on the weekend, we need the ability to temporarily remove offenders' commenting privileges for a few days.
I need to scope out how this might work, and will then put in on the dev list.
If you're going to have forums discussing politics, race, religion, ideologies etc then they will always end up like this. I'm not one for censorship either, but I'm also not deluded enough to believe I can articulate such a compelling forum post that I will change someone's point of view. There are some interesting and informative posts from all sides of the fence on here, but when it degenerates it's pretty simple to scroll past and pretend we're adults.
You gotta do what you gotta do Ben/Stu, but I'd rather your time spent on developing new things and continuing the excellent editorial, rather than having to moderate something that will never change.
Thank you Ben. I hope you having to act like a teacher out in a playground full of brats does not redirect too much time or resources that are required to keep swellnet’s content and forecasting rolling.
Yes agreed, I mean, out of no where, fueled by goofball, stup’e and blowie plotted to drown me and quote, ‘use me a boat anchor’. I was having a very fraggy day and felt quite afraid, but resisted being dragged into the fracas. A ban would have done them good no doubt. Thank you.
I also 100% agree Tinfoil and Ben but to my point and even BBs linked article yesterday at 8.36pm. It's the continue use of seemingly innocuous words or phrases sugar coated in the spirit of free or reasonable speech that enflames. Words matter greatly. Diversity of opinion is a good thing but it is really tiresome reading the same tripe over and over again. Policing this is very hard; topics dealing with race, refugees or Aboriginals are charged with emotion, 1/2 truth and prejudice. The truth is these issues are exceedingly complex and beyond simple solutions so often offered up here and else where in the new wave of modern day ugly politics. Libertarians my arse. As the chief of the Army said "the standard you walk past is the standard you accept" and I'm not walking past what I see as wrong here or elsewhere. Solution? just immediately close down forums that start to venture into these realms. Sad that's it come to this.
Holidays are over. Everyone is going home.
A few sprints on the beach and sprint swims before some yoga.....all without treading on any poor little tacker’s sandcastle or getting stink eye from a chubby dad who thinks the beach is for knocking over a 21 piece bucket. Happy days.
Water is still green and chilly though. Not to mention the surf is garbage .
The Rise of Facism
Facism can be defined in various ways but the essential ingredients are authoritarianism, nationalism, a dictatorial regime, suppression of opposition groups and social regimentation. Ramp these ingredients up and you have states like Hitler’s Germany and Mussolini’s Italy.
If we look around the world at the moment it is obvious that there has been a swing towards facism. No other word will do. Since the end of World War 2, the strategy of facists has always been to control the language of the discussion by creating false labels for themselves, their ideas and their political system. It is not those strutting around in swastikas and stormtrooper gear that we should fear. It is their fellow travellers and enablers who pose the real threat.
Facism was never eradicated. It survived wherever a dictator, usually funded by the US or Russia, could sufficiently repress the population. Tragic as this has been for those unfortunate enough to live in Gadaffi’s Libya, Papa Doc’s Haiti or in any of the other numerous hellish regimes, they have not posed a substantial threat to western democracies.
In the West the swing to the right began under Reagan in the US and Thatcher in the UK. This was a generational change and the start of a long process in which government increasingly abdicated its responsibility to ensure fair economic conditions. In this vacuum wealthy corporations and individuals used their money to purchase political support for their ideas. They used bribery, (lavishly funding campaigns) or blackmail, (threats to fund opponents) to ensure that their policies were implemented.
The extreme example of this process was the under-mining of attempts to deal with climate change by those, like the Koch brothers in the US, with large investments in fossil fuels. The refusal of governments to limit emissions vastly increased the wealth of these parasites. The costs of that inaction are being felt now across the globe and will cause immense human suffering, while the economic costs will be born by taxpayers for generations to come. It has always been a corporate straegy to privatise profits while pushing costs on to the public. Climate change is simply the most dramatic example of this process.
The problem for this right wing agenda though was that their economic policies were no more sustainable than their environmental policies. Concentrating wealth reduces economic growth. The rich use only a small proportion of their incomes to purchase goods and sevices. The rest of their money chases investment opportunities, pushing up asset prices beyond their true worth.
After numerous smaller stumbles the 2008 financial crisis (GFC) clearly revealed, not only the extent of the theft by the rich, but also the economic instability they had created. For the first time a large section of the population noticed that they were being ripped off and began to demand change. Yet protests like the Occupy movement, lacking access to the necessary wealth, were unable to generate the political power to make progress towards a fairer system.
The stagnation and austerity that followed the GFC created the opportunity for facist movements across Europe and the Americas to gain traction with those who had suffered. Their strategy was extreme nationalism and their targets were refugees, immigrants and minority groups. At the same time they placed the blame for the economic decline, not on corporations and the rich, but on the academic and political elite.
Politicians may have been guilty as charged but replacing them with populist authoritarians only enhanced the toxic influence of the rich. While some acadmics richly deserved the criticisms directed at them, if only for their blindness, others in putting forward ideas that would once have been centrist, found themselves accused of being radical leftists, a species extinct since the start of the millenium.
The election of Donald Trump represented a facist triumph. Here was a man whose personality was based enirely on the dark triad. Narcissism, Machiavellism and Psychopathy. This was a man who had no respect for democracy, the rule of law or diplomatic norms. His lack of a consistent philosophy or any intellectual curiosity meant he could be easily manipulated by anyone willing to abase themselves before him.
Tempting as it is to see it that way, this is not a repeat of the thirties. History does not repeat itself but it does rhyme. The real concern in our time is that the rhyme will turn out to be with World War 2. Given the huge nucleasr arsenals available to the major powers this is not a possibility that should be taken lightly. To those who consider this alarmist ask yourself what is the acceptable level of risk for a war that would effectively end civilisation as we know it? Then, who has the right to increase that risk? Our political power is limited but the first step is to call out those putting us at that risk by their correct name. No more pretend labels. They are facists.
As Ben said, it's a real pain in the arse to moderate forums, especially when the shit usually goes down when I'm at home, playing with my kids, and I've gotta excuse myself from them to deal with this. Yet at the same time we've kinda set ourselves up for this. We, or more particularly, I, like the forum banter and in the past I've encouraged it because I sometimes learn from it. I hope others do too.
It may surprise some people but, at least for a while, I enjoyed having Blob around because he brought a new angle to the debate. Even if you didn't agree with what he said I think left-leaning people should at least be edified by the realisation that people - hard-right people - are coming to the public square with fully-formed arguments. Ignore that at your peril. Has Brexit and Trump taught us nothing?
I think the line about 'walking past standards' is kinda fluid because, in light of Blob's posts, I found myself re-assessing my beliefs, even changing some of them. The world itself is changing and even if you are staunch about your own morals, each issue also has a pragmatic angle to consider.
Also, the 'walking past' line infers you can actually do something about the other persons point of view. Have a think about how often you've changed someone's mind by calling them a racist cunt.
Yeah...anyway, Ben and I have got to do something so change is coming. Just not sure how or what. But tlll then, play nicely.
I think we need to make clear the 'rules of engagement'. Most people are complaining about shit slinging whilst guysmiley is complaining about things he doesn't like to hear.
I like to read both!
I must have missed the worst of it (I hate that! ....fucking censorship....), because I didn't read anything particularly bad either way. I'm sure blowin offended a few with his views, but his points were reasoned and reasonable.
Indod made me seriously cringe a few times, but nothing overly offensive from my perspective. As stated above, if your gonna have a forum that discusses religion and politics - the two once no no's of public discussion - it's gonna get heated, and some people aren't gonna like what they hear.
Need to define, are we talking about personal slurs or stuff you don't want to hear?
Just curious, can you clear up which kind of offensive material you're complaining about tinfiolhat?
Even our ‘ honourable members ‘ in parliament devolve into kiddie tantrums on occasion. Unless it’s costing Ben money or affecting his business, I couldn’t give a fuck. I’ll get angry for a while , but usually end up having a giggle about it. Not too enthused of the idea that it’s a burden on Stu’s existence either.
To be honest . There’s really only two contributors who I have any real distaste for , one has an opinion he’s built as high ground to be defended to the death , which I sort of admire , the other is just....
And I try to ignore them as much as possible. No doubt I’ve done my share of shit slinging along the road though , but I believe I’ve moderated it to a large extent. Until I’m pushed too far.
Obviously, there’s more to this than my opinion so do what you have to Ben and Stu , but I like it as it is.
I think our Code of Conduct - from 2013 - still stands the test of time.
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/code-conduct/37586
But the main point I'd like to reiterate relating to the recent fracas is:
No personal attacks. Play the ball, not the man.
Stu's line above really sums it up nicely: "Have a think about how often you've changed someone's mind by calling them a racist cunt."
i reckon we invent some sort of electric shock taser that zaps them when they type something nasty and demeaning about another. you could also buy a drone that tracks the culprits with gps and then you could missile their quiver. you could also just ignore them, or understand that in the contextual field of human life on planet earth 3d, differing truths give you the opportunity to evolve your understandings even if you totally disagree with something. it helps you because it allows you to feel more sure about your own understandings.
everything is giving you the opportunity to define yourself, even the exact opposite of what you like or desire, because it gives you the chance to think about and be, who you want/decide to be. so be thankful for all understandings as it gives you choice, but be sure in your own understandings and nothing will bother you.
an artist uses all the colours of the palette, even if the artist prefers certain colours to others and a good artist knows that even the colours the artist likes least, can be a very valuable contrast/ effect for the picture the artist is painting. i'm a bullshit artist, so i need to use all colours as they all have their place in my self portrait.
tasmania on fire- too much smoke, burnt out bush- i did c6-7 disc when got bounced off bottom end of 2018- so on hold at moment and probably best anyway. my old macbook not typing well so no punctuation as not all keys working. happy 2019 crew- hope huey gives you all a few beauties.
Although this thread in particular isn't - or wasn't - strictly big P political, it is also the most popular on here going by sheer comment numbers.
Politics, hey? There's an interest out there for sure.
However, check the political landscape out there. Fraser Anning, David Leyonhjelm, Corey Bernardi, and of course Pauline!
They walk amongst us!
Now, onto some false equivalence, moral or otherwise, logical and other fallacies, who on the other end of the political spectrum matches up with the likes of those characters?
Adam Bandt? Sarah Hanson Young? Pat Dodson? Dougie Cameron?
Really??
Doug doesn't find a match with Michaelia Cash, I reckon. Am I whistling Dixie here?
But in the interest of 'balance', we get, I dunno, professor Brian Cox 'debating' Malcolm Roberts (remember him?) about climate science on the ABC!?
And that's in the real outside world. Outside of these forums, anyway.
Anyway, there's a lot of goldfish memory on here. I guess it happens when you spray stuff all day, every day, just to do it and be and feel involved.
A coupla things that have been said numerous times over the years;
"Realise the power of language especially when it's 'legitimated' through certain vessels, like these threads.
Own your opinion.
Take responsibility. Be accountable.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from responsibility and accountability."
(There is even a thread! https://www.swellnet.com/forums/politico/325110)
Hang on, I found this!
Is it going to stir the pot??
[BTW, you do all know that you can google all comments made on here if you know how to search properly?]
"Indy, speaking of Agung.
Some of your Indo knowledge has been insightful. And given in the best spirit of info and knowledge sharing.
Which is cool. It's a given. Well, to me.
Maybe you could even include Blowie with some of his fish knowledge (blowfish?) for those that are inclined and interested.
Myself, I'm ignorant of the lesser known parts of say, Sumatra. And the fishing, period, on the East Coast of Oz. Hell, fishing most anywhere. It's not really my bag. Though I've caught a few.
Add to that a lot of things. Tax accounting. Physical conditioning and training. Surfboard bottoms and how they really work. Wave pool mechanics.
We're all ignorant of a lot of stuff.
What irks me is how people deal with their ignorance.
Willful ignorance I find hard to abide.
Revelling in one's own ignorance and wearing it like a badge of honour is an abomination!
It seems especially prevalent in the wider Australian political/cultural life for the last 20 years or so.
& it ain't healthy in my opinion.
I thought Swellnet could be a place to question and interrogate the 'orthodoxies' that are thrown up daily in the corporate media. Question the official narrative as it were.
Or regurgitate.
Whatever.
Really."
https://www.swellnet.com/forums/wax/368509
Check the comments!
The more things change etc etc
So how do you account for the made up accusation that I was a bullshitter which you slung around relentlessly, if you’re so much about responsibility and personal accountability ?
I'll repeat & add,
Diversity in all its forms, including opinion, is good/to be encouraged.
Words matter greatly in this brave new world of so-called libertarianism, of Hanson, of Reclaim Australia and other far right hate groups.
Rights come with responsibilities ... and its incumbent on all of us to call it out when a wrong presents itself.
What's relevant about using the word "cunt" in this discussion ? It denigrates women.
EDIT: a swim followed by yoga, nice work Blowin.
Cunt doesn’t denigrate women anymore than dick denigrates men.
Good point about the rise of fascism, BB , but you’ve managed to miss the main offender.....again.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/no-longer-safe-researcher-harassed-by-...
Three military bases on Australian Antarctic territory. ....Sweet.
Hey, BB , you made a big deal about Trump’s unsuitability to lead based on his talk of grabbing women on the pussy , imagine if he’d cut the brake lines in their cars ! Nice example of the governmental stability you’re always referring to when discussing China.
Don’t forget the sprints , Guy.
A few flat out sprints does wonders for me. Buggers you harder than a stint at boarding school.
Hi sypkan, well there is some stuff that I feel is unnecessarily racist, but I understand that is through my filter and what is unacceptable to me may not be to someone else so it’s a tough one. I don’t know if you saw the Australia Day topic but that really got out of hand. People threatening violence, although it’s online and very unlikely to come fruition, is still poor form and totally unnecessary. Sometimes the way I see it, certain parties take great joy in getting right under each other’s skin which can be amusing for a while but when you can see that it is obviously really button pushing to a point where someone is obviously quite distressed. And they keep needling. Why? What satisfaction could possibly be derived from that? I’m all up for a good debate and freedom of speech is a must but when it gets off topic and personal then the whistle needs to be blown so people can cool down and regain perspective. That’s just my two cents. Swellnet has always felt like a good community to me and one where I feel welcome amongst a broad range of decent people. I’d hate to see it go down the shit chute like a few other surf sites. I would encourage those who enjoy a bit if sport to take a moment sometimes before pressing the post button when things really start to fire up. What is so fun about deeply upsetting someone? I just don’t get it. We all love surf, we’re all on the same side aren’t we? Not being a cunt can also be quite satisfying.
Now that made me laugh Blowin, cheers
It's just human nature.
Things get heated, people fling insults around.
It cools down.
Totally self-regulating.
Just finished a book by Thesiger about travels across the Arabian desert with the bedouin.
He described vicious, all day shouting matches between the various bedouin ........
when questioned about them they replied, "but it helps pass the time".
To be honest, I find the opinions expressed here generally more considered and thought provoking than many other media outlets.
But yeah, Australia Day: fucking joke of a holiday. It commemorates the founding of the colony of New South Wales by the English. Nothing to fucking do with Australia and it's a blunt stick in the eye to the indigenous people of this nation.
Lets change the date and celebrate Australia.
Still the best country on Earth I reckon.
Blowing China is coming from a communist background but yes it shares many features with facism. China under Xi is in many ways ruthless. The difference to Trump, I believe, is that Xi is ruthless in pursuit of peace, prosperity and power for China, Trump is ruthless in pursuit of self-interest. Xi's behaviour is predictable and unlikely to lead to nuclear war. Trump is dangerously unpredictable.
So building military bases on our Antarctic territory is just him seeking peace ?
If Australia was to commence building military bases on Chinese soil , would you consider that to be enhancing peace ?
If Australia attempted to intimidate or murder researchers in China , do you think the Chinese should view that as a step towards peaceful relations ?
Maybe it’s be quicker if you named the ways in which Xi is mot ruthlessly determined to advance China’s interests at the expense of everyone else in the globe. Oh , and when I say China’s interests , of course I mean only the interests of the CCP and more specifically, himself.
As the CCP has proven repeatedly and relentlessly, the Chinese people are literally just there to be driven over if they get between the CCP and absolute control.
Depends what you think would lead to nuclear war Blindboy. In China see a regime where oppression of freedoms is beginning to take centre stage. at least in the US there are (just) enough limitations in the constitution to prevent Trump from achieving his most untoward self-interests. In China, Xi just signed himself up to eternal rule. Doesn't the social behavioral engineering give you some grave concerns about severe tyrranical mis-use of power? It shocked me.
How can you even begin to compare the two ?
Trump can’t even build a bloody colourbond fence without being restricted by the nation , whilst Xi just made himself ruler into eternity.
Facetious argument, BB.
Your determined reticence to acknowledge China for what it truly is makes for a worthy point of discussion on its own merit , BB.
You’re not compromised are you ?
Blindboy,
Thanks for the telling discussion about the rise of Fascism. I'm interested to understand your opinion of the state of far left ideology such as Socialism and Communism. I want to understand whether you have spent an equal amount time considering the other extreme outcome of ideological positions, which is equally as dangerous. Can we find a point where the extreme ideology on the left goes too far?
Why do you think regimes such as Maoist China, The Soviet Union under Stalin and more recently Venezuela established themselves and corrupted an otherwise Utopian take on how a given society should be governed? And how can we prevent such a thing from occurring if we tilt Western Democracies that way?
Blowin, you've blown my cover! Nothing left for me but to flee to Beijing. No hang on, make that Hainan. Not sure why you find my opinion so threatening. Essentially all I am saying is that China aspires to be the major global power while providing peace and prosperity for its people. Hey and guess what. They may even use the same methods as the US, you know assassination, intimidation, bribery, blackmail, torture etc etc. The significant difference is that I believe China is firmly focused on avoiding nuclear war or any significant international conflict. I have not had any such believe about the US from well before Trump.
yocal, Stalinist Russia and Maoist China were as bad as Hitler's Germany. So yes the left can go too far. Currently there is no radical left. Christopher Hitchens made that point as early as 2001. What we have is a culture in which the political language has been distorted and abused to create the impression that the current wave of facist policies are actually centrist and to paint any left leaning policy, particularly those that would disrupt the ever increasing wealth of the 1%, as extreme.
So it wasn’t a big Pointer spotted off Dee Why last week.....it was a Chinese mini-sub. Say hello to Mr Holt for us.
.
Ha ha, it delivered my latest instructions. " Convert Blowin at all costs. He is the key to global dominance!"
No right of reply? Interesting.
[and this is an edit!]
You’d better be quick , there’s someone at the door . If it’s the Mormons with their polygamy offer again , then you’ve got some competition on your hands.
Um, if that doesn't make sense, well, there's a reason.
Actually, relevant from this thread (https://www.swellnet.com/comment/553186)?
"I've noticed a fair bit of censorship on here in recent days. Not self-censorship, or self-omission - as has been the case in the past for some of our commenters - or even substantial self-editing to change the content of posts (which I personally believe is poor form), but direct censorship. The stuff I saw didn't strike me as particularly worthy of this, but then I'm not a moderator and this site is not my actual business concern.
If things are deemed harmful to business for whatever reason, through emailed complaints, threatened or actual subscription drop-offs etc, then so be it.
I don't believe this would be the intention of any of the commenters on here, but again, this is a going concern, so I can assume we can all understand this, if not totally agree in what does or doesn't qualify for redaction?"
The more things change, etc
I think Freeride is on the money.
I would have to disagree Blindboy. I can see Venezuela is currently radically left to the point of Tyrrany, and China is quickly becoming radical left. The social engineering going on in China is one of the most radical and dangerous uses of technology i've ever heard of. If you don't think that is destined to lead to severe loss of life then I suggest you consider it from the perspective of how badly it could be misused where a person in power seeks to maintain their power, and a large number of citizens begin to feel oppressed and resistant.
There are far right people operating dangerously in Western Society today. Why do you conclude that there is not an equal and opposite proportion of dangerously leftist views as well? If you accept science and stats then surely you could envisage the bell curve existing? What hasn't been addressed, and what the fear mongering far-right seems unable to clarify is: When exactly does the left go too far? What moment is the ideology too extreme?
In my opinion, the reason is because on the surface, a leftist view of the world is protective and premised on standing up as a voice for the voiceless. It appears to be a pure and empathetic position. What many on the far left are failing to realise is that protecting anyone in favor over another's rights to equal opportunity is by definition a form of oppression that can quickly get out of hand if it becomes a governing principle of a nation.
Not everything forms a bell curve and the current political spectrum is massively distorted to the right. The only prominent leftist figures are Corbyn in the UK and Sanders in the US. You might like to explain what policies they have proposed that you consider radical. I can't see much radical about either. Oppression? Seriously? Standing up for the rights of the disadvantaged is oppression. This is a perfect example of the kind of linguistic distortion I was talking about in my earlier post. The real oppression that is occurring now and is responsible for the GFC, austerity, the collapse of the middle class and a large slice of global poverty is the oppression of the rest by the rich via their influence on right wing politics. The leftist view of the world is one which recognises that unregulated capitalism leads to an ever increasing concentration of wealth which is socially and economically catastrophic.
Not sure you could even consider China "left wing".
it's a variant of totalitarian state-run oligarchic capitalism.
And far more dangerous to Australia than the US has or ever will be.
The only danger Trump poses is if he reduces US influence in the Indo-Pacific.
...... or starts a nuclear war so that our military bases and the US bases in Australia become targets. You might like to consider that one of our main naval bases is Garden Island within sight of the Sydney CBD. You don't think that would be a target? Dream on.
oh come on, china isn't left-wing? so as soon as any government left of the "neo-liberal conspiracy" inevitably becomes a brutal dictatorship for life (russia, china, cuba venezuala etc any that havent?), they are categorised as capitalism.. fits with blindboys "trains run on time" apologia for china, stu's "they would have died anyway" re drownings at sea etc
loungelizard hmmm let me think oh yeh New Zealand, Portugal ......will that do or should I go on?
Trump - Exhibited exactly Zero war like behaviour. First President to attempt to reduce US militarism in the. Inflexible East = Very possible nuclear deployment.
Zinping- Invaded and militarised huge tracts of territory in contravention of International Order and despite explicit assurances he would not do . so. Constructing new military bases all over the globe including on Australian territory ( !!! ) , threatens nearest neighbors with military force and invasion . Kidnapping and detaining foreign citizens without charge .= Stable and peaceful.
Is that correct , BB ?
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