A student, a decent young woman, dragged away in front of all... 2 months and she would've graduated.... This is the modern Australia....
Dawg points out that with the government in constitutional turmoil, the mainstream media runs to their aid with well timed terror stories..... And Blowin concentrates on the well timed terror story bahahahahahaha
But I'll answer your red herring questions
question 1 - no
question 2 - no
question 3 part 1 - no . part 2 - yes.
Now some for you.
Whenever the government is feeling the heat, if within 24 hours the mainstream media, news L in particular, WITHOUT FAIL has a leading terrorist story (EVERY TIME there is controversy or a bad poll), is it deliberate smoke screen? Or is it just incredible coincidences?
Major questions are being asked of a Liberal senator, and now a lower house liberal member in regards to whether they are validly elected. This could lose Rupert, whoops, I mean Turnbull government... So, this Rupert story ran on june 7
was AGAIN run yesterday with a few extra scary pics etc as a front page exclusive.
So Blow boy...... With a lower house lib member copping major heat, why was she not on Ruperts front page, but a rehashed nearly 2 month old terror story was?
Sorry , Sheepy .
I thought that stuff was so obvious that it wasn't worth commenting on.
But you commented on the obvious anyway?
Sheepy , you know what the LNP / Murdoch strategy is ....you and everyone else has been commenting on it for years.
Honestly , wouldnt it be more suprising if they didn't carry on in this fashion ?
If you want to break ( semi ) new ground , maybe discuss the genuine reasoning behind their strategy to militarise the police force and make Marshall law easier to implement.
It goes beyond merely fearmongering to secure votes.
What are they afraid of ?
Maybe the medium term future whereby the inequality of today is increased exponentially ? When the robotics and AI that will decimate the labour force are possessed almost completely by the capital that is currently attempting to marginalise that same labour .
If people are questioning the status quo at the moment when it's people (exploited immigrants and foreign nations with cheap labour ) replacing people .....then how will the world look when people are replaced by machines and the current working poor are TERMINALLY poor ?
I guess every now and then a conspiracy theory might be true...but generally speaking they are not.
Indo.... Aaaaaaaand PRESTO!!!!!!!!!!
So I'm guessing you think raids are just fear mongering for political reasons?
People like you would be the first to whinge and whine if an a serious attack happened in Australia and say why didn't the government and police etc do anything when they knew there was people planning these things or had tip offs.
I rarely feel for any government, but for them it's damned if they do damned if they don't.
Conservative Government 101 is to create fear in the electorate when all else fails.
Proven political ploy in this country since Howard and Tampa.
Last year in Positano an American started up a conversation with me in a cafe. He explained how he liked the Italian Police being armed with machine guns so that they could shoot terrorists. I asked him if he was worried about being attacked by a terrorist while on holiday. He was very worried he assured me, aren't you? he asked. Annoyed at this interruption to an otherwise brilliant day I asked the dumb arse how many Americans are killed each year in America by guns. My buddy promptly left.
Point being statistically you have more chance being killed or injured by a wardrobe falling on you in your own home than being harmed in a terrorist attack .... or road toll, domestic violence, drownings, sporting accidents, falling limbs from a tree, bee stings, snake or spider bites blah blah.
indo, i agree with you generally, i prefer strong support to law enforcement agencies. i dont believe the threats are made up. though i believe SD is talking less about the 'raids' themselves and more about the media reporting of the raids at such convenient political times. i assume that customs and Afp conduct raids quite regularly and we just dont hear about it.
we will have to wait to hear how dangerous 'these' individuals actually were. all we know is that they found a suspicious object. sounds like a pretty low level raid and more like just a couple of front doors knocked down. weak case, but then the new terrorism laws allow for that.
Terrorism is a problem not because of the chances of getting killed in an attack, but because it's such an unknown on when or where or how it could happen and it can happen to anyone from a baby to the strongest man to a frail old grandmother, and because if attacks weren't stopped we would live in fear and change our living patterns, that could have big social and economical effects.
"road toll, domestic violence, drownings, sporting accidents, falling limbs from a tree, bee stings, snake or spider" and more like shark attacks, getting hit by lighting etc
All of those things we also try to control the risk factor and also prepare for and try to prevent.
Road toll= we have speed limits and road rules and we try to be in control of our cars and try to avoid having collisions.
Domestic violence= only effects those in relationships of some kind, generally women the warning signs are generally there yes its hard but people(general women) do leave abusive partners
Drownings= We learn to swim, have pool fences, don't go swimming drunk or in dangerous waters.
Sporting accidents= You must play sport to first have an accident and then most sports have rules and safety equipment.
Falling limbs from trees: Totally random event but obviously need to be under a tree for a start and we avoid being under trees in things like storms etc to reduce the risk.
Bee stings= If allergic those people have the jab close on hand to avoid dying from the sting, and they avoid bees.
Snakes and spiders= We try to avoid them and avoid getting bitten and if we are going to go bush or places more likely to be bitten we wear proactive clothing like boots etc...we generally don't go walking in long grass with no shoes.
You get the idea.
Terrorist attack, yes very remote chance of an attack.
But our government still needs to try to prevent it from happening.
Otherwise humans will try to lower the risk even more, like not attending events with large amounts of people or avoiding inner city areas.
Imagine if the government did nothing and there was an attack or even more than one attack the effect that it could have could be much bigger or widespread than you think socially and economically.
For example imagine if there was a terrorist attack at the AFL football, or even still two attacks in a season, imagine the crowd attendance drops that would effect how people enjoy their time and also see the AFL lose big revenue.
Yes governments need to prevent terrorist attacks and police crime. But do I go to bed thinking I will be robbed in the morning? The point is this terrorism thing is totally overblown for political purposes as witnessed by the majority of media reports and cunning stunts like Turnbull recent announcements standing in front of masked ADF personnel and the lack of justification for Dutton's super department inside and outside government ranks. Remember Abbott standing in front of an ever increasing number of AU flags? What did the number get up to? was it 12 or 14?
I note from news reports last night Turnbull was pre briefed on yesterday's raid as he was commenting on it to the media as events unfolded; nothing to do with politics? tell him he's dreaming.
"But do I go to bed thinking I will be robbed in the morning? "
I guess you do if you lock your doors, i guess you don't if you don't lock them?
Any government would do the same, they have to look like they are very proactive on this issue, one day we will have an attack maybe big or small who knows it's impossible to stop every attack might be next week might be in 20 years who knows.
When this happens if liberals are in power labor will try to say it could have been prevented if the government was more active on the issue, if it happens under labor the the liberals will say, Labor hasn't done enough and it could have been prevented and that it didn't happen under Liberal and that they stopped numerous attacks.
So yes i guess there is a political element to it, thats just how it is and i doubt this issue will ever go away.
Still got Howard's fridge magnet Indo? on the fridge?
politics should be about stability, confidence in what your saying, a measured approach, and not jumping at the bit. politics is increasingly about social media feeds, competition, popularism. government gets on doing what it needs to do and doesn't need incenssent political point scoring over every issue.
we saw that turnbull had to wipe the froth from his mouth when commenting on the greens senators oversights. only to find later than one of his has exactly the same problem. and we saw that back previously when he was booted as opposition leader in 08/09 for his hasty accusations.
anyhow, i think its naive to discount the terrorism threat. but keep it in perspective is the key. getting everyone worked up over "possibilities" isnt helpful.
and yes, i do lock my door at night.
@Guy smiley Ive actually never voted Liberal although i think my views as i get older are leaning more towards their views, but I'm a blue collar worker and don't have a high income so in that regard i can't bring myself to vote liberal as feel like id be showing myself in the foot.
At the time i hated Howard with a passion but now with hindsight i think he was one of our best prime ministers in recent history, although off course i don't think everything he did was great.
At that time i would have either voted Greens or Labor most likely voted Greens as when i was younger I was a bit idealistic and bit of a wanna be hippie.
@Indo, my family is mostly Liberal voters and they all voted for Howard at the time but most now think he wasn't a good PM especially when it came to wasting the proceeds of the first mining boom on recurrent tax cuts and corporate and middle class welfare. I would think you would have liked his stance on refugees based on your previous comments. Howard was very cunning making fear in the electorate a vote winner. But for me Howard's greatest crime, even greater than the economic vandalism, was his willingness to follow Bush & Blair into war based on a lie. Saddam Hussein may have been a murderous tyrant but the fall of Iraq has led to where we are today.
Howard = a great politician in the Machiavellian sense and a hoary little toad in every other.
Question to nobody: over there on the cold-hearted side of politics, has there ever been a great leader? As Hawke, Keating, and Whitlam were to Labor, what has there been for the Libs?
Dr Hewson? Fraser..? (noting that both of whom did their honorable shit after they loosed the reins).
liberal greatness?.....the problem with conservatism is that its really really hard to look sexy. bunch of robots.
I'm stumped Stu. Lots of ifs and maybes. Hewson makes so much sense these days but what if he had won that election? I think he would have done a good job but .... I always wondered how Peter Costello would have gone had Howard let go of the PMship 2 years out from the election of Krudd; not because of his record as Treasurer but because of his family and brother Tim (perhaps I saw good in Costello because I saw none in Howard). In state politics going back into history Victoria had Dick Hamer, the small l Liberal premier whose legacy includes the Arts Centre and Melbourne's legislated green wedges. A fine softly spoken man/pollie.
Some nice contributions gentlemen, and some rather depressing ones. Whatever the merit, I believe that your comments have been put forward sincerely, although at times I suspected that Sheepdog and Blowin are mates who drink at the pub every night and go through their tactical responses for the next day, to no particular purpose other than drumming up viewpoints.
And if they did, I have no problem with that, I don't even know why I get on here and post shite.
Of greatest concern to me is those comments which suggest a lack of reflection on how the media is used to 'manufacture consent'. Yeah, I know, Noam Chomsky and all that, but it's true and it works and Rupert is a master at it. John Menadue, a highly respected senior public servant to numerous PM's, assures us that Murdoch told him in the 70's that he really wanted to be a politician (a claim which Murdoch denies). Rupert has had to settle on owning politicians rather than being one. News very Limited is a political tool first, and a media organisation second, and a journal of record not at all.
Indo, I will take you up on your comments on terrorism. I think that case that the pollies use this issue to drum up fear and blind obedience is self-evident. Our response is way overblown, could just as easily and effectively be done quietly rather than the current way, and could be done better and with half the resources if they were interested in efficiency and tactical nous rather than media grandstanding.
But your comment that Howard is starting to look better with the passage of time is just unbefarkinglievable, and cannot go unchallenged. A vast majority of the problems we face today are directly sourced at the feet of this great turd and his numbskull Treasurer, Costello.
Budget blow-outs, unaffordable housing, wealth going to speculation and gaming the system rather than toil, resources going out the window with neither a royalty or a tax being handed back to Australia, demonising the unemployed, welfare recipients, asylum seekers, foreigners, anyone who comes here without buckets of money, the absolute waste of a once in a lifetime resources boom, the missed opportunities on renewal energy in the face of climate change denialism, fark, that bastard and his treasurer brought in one lasting reform, (the GST) and a fat lot of narky shit and inequality, and brought out the very worst in our national character.
He was a monster, an unmitigated turd, a pox on our humanity, a self righteous and smug ponce who's only quality is his apparent mortality.
I will not read a remotely benevolent word about that bastard. More than anyone, he is responsible for Australia going back to being small-minded, xenophobic, insular, inward looking, dumb recalcitrants.
We could have been a standout nation, others could be looking at us as the miracle of the ages, the Norway of the South, with greater national wealth and forward looking government than any nation, and just at exactly the right time in history to find a great leader who could have really shown the rest of the world how a country should be run, we got a farking accountant with no ambition and no strategic vision, and a small minded ambition to do whatever needed to be done to keep Labor out.
Because, you know, unions, and my daddy had a hard time with unions when he owned a petrol station.
You have to work and think incredibly hard to understand just what a small minded dweeb he was.
Other than that, I harbour no ill will towards him. :-)
I can only concur Batfink.
John Fucking Howard! The "unflushable turd"!
So toxic, I left the country after the Tampa election, and came back in 2008.
And I'm only half-joking. He definitely had his part to play in my going overseas to live.
Whilst I agree with everything else said , it's pretty hard to reconcile the claim that Australia became insular during the commencement of the largest immigration flow seen in Australia's history and of the entire Western world.
The resultant xenophobia a coincidence - maybe , maybe not.
Sieg heil, mein kamerads!!!!
But, but, Doggo...they're, y'know, MUSLIMS!
Shats..... oh..... Oh, of course....... Silly me....
Nothing to see then...... Move on, everyone.
A mate was playing that vinyl last night.
And so it came to pass...
It's another shameful act, Doggo, on a very long list.
Note the lack of interest shats... Just you and me... We are witnessing what I call "the great turning away"
apologies to pink F.
No lack of interest, just rendered speechless by the depths of their bastardry.
I hears ya.
But then look at the 'What's What' bilge of late from the usual suspects.
Poor fella, my cuntry.
Turnbull and the spineless Labor premiers clamber over eachother to bring in more Orwellian laws - locking up people without charge for 2 weeks, including 10 yo kids, massive facial recognition data base. Turnbulls selling point is "KEEPING AUSTRALIANS SAFE".
The following day, Turnbull rejects idea to ban flammable building cladding. Turnbulls selling point is "scaring people is not the answer"........................ So much for "keeping Australians safe".
You can't make up bullshit this good.... It takes real skill...
And it takes a dumbed down whipped tired broken populace to swallow it.
Sheepy - Ive been talking to a few people about this and their opinion has been " If you're doing nothing wrong then what's the problem ?".
It's not that they've fallen for the line that it's purely about stopping terrorism , they just haven't fully extrapolated the effect it'll have once the powers are abused.
Most only start to care when I mention that the facial recognition technology end game is that it will be used by insurance companies , employers etc etc to see what you're up to . Then they start to care.
I've already got the facial recognition deal on my passport anyway , as do many , so it's already on in that regards.
Blowin writes "Sheepy - Ive been talking to a few people about this and their opinion has been " If you're doing nothing wrong then what's the problem ?"."
They are the broken whipped tired folk I pointed out, blowin - "And it takes a dumbed down whipped tired broken populace to swallow it."
They are the current affairs watching Sonya Kruger sheep people, the convict gene runs strong in these people. They see the cattle trains stacked with people head to the "work camps", so they turn away in denial and holler at the "different looking" people.
But i have also spoken to some people, Blowin. There's probably 1 in 3, maybe 1 in 4 people that are clued on. But there's no party that really represents us.
Fact is, our politicians make a big deal about defending way of life, our freedoms. But soon we wont have any freedoms to defend with the way both parties are acting.
G W Bush may have been a nob. But he did say one ripper. "If we change the way we live, then the terrorists have won". Well..... "They" are wining... ISIS and their ilk celebrate every time we chip away at out own freedoms. "That's our doing", they would say.
But it isn't.... it's our doing.
Can't interfere with the market sheepy even if that cladding is as flammable as petrol
Well, guy, at least with facial recognition, we'll know via cctv who entered the building before being incinerated. So there is an upside I suppose.
14 days is a crock i agree sheepy.
"Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews brushed off concerns about civil liberties, dismissing them as a “luxury”."
Theres the sticking point and they all have the same attitide. Only a matter of time before they use the same social media tech for polling and political profiling.
yer i seen that interview this mornin, Daniel Andrew's, is one of the best pollies, we have at the moment, that man is a deadset, legend.
Medication time bro.
Lives just up the road from you too right lukas?
Gaz, to be fair, Andrews did not dismiss civil liberties as a "luxury". He dismissed the DEBATE about civil liberties, citing as a politician in charge of peoples safety, when terror threats are on alert, he dos not have the time to spend debating and has to act immediately. That those debating civil liberties have the "time" to debate such things.
Having said that, I'd like to agree with Lucas, he is an above average leader for these days and ages. However I've never ever met a person who is correct 100% of the time. And on these terror laws signed off on at COAG, Andrews is WRONG... He and the other premiers buckled... I could wear fake eyebrows, or a fake nose, go into a theatre supply shop, slightly elongate my chin. No data base will pick that up... it's not gonna "keep us safe"... "Bad people" will get around it.... The las Vegas shooter had no record...... It wouldn't pick him up.... It's a croc of shit.
And locking up people as young as 10 for 2 weeks without charge?? It was a week.. That was bad enough.... But ahhh heck lets make it 2 weeks.... I know, why don't we make it 3 weeks? It's only an extra 7 days..... Or 4 weeks....... Or 3 months...... Or 1 year....
Fuck it when it comes to "safety" we should be able to lock up people forever, without charge, just on suspicion. You know it makes sense.
I actually don't know a thing about him except that he's better than the last two premiers in Victoria. I read that quote along with similar quotes from Palaszczuk and Weatherill in disbelief in an article I saw last week.
I'm doubtful that any of these powers granted at COAG will do anything to improve the situation either. Every second person brings a flask into the footy. Scanning my licence won't change that and if they bring in scanners I'll just stop using a steel flask. Same thing applies to all public areas. If someones not being searched for then they aren't going to be found.
The whole thing is a great idea; what could possibly go wrong, especially if/when facial recognition data gets hacked, or even better, sold off to corporations.
The SA government also handed the fuzz some new software that analyses social media for key words on the same day it gave them the power to detain for 2 weeks. Agreed what could possibly go wrong?
Soon enough they'll be using the same software for polling as well as profiling.
@ Andy - They could build a profile of someones whole personality through social media which I'm sure the insurers would love too. I can see private health getting very expensive for surfers.
Hawke Keating deregulated, floated the dollar, introduced Asian trade.
Howard got us into surplus.
Rudd/Gillard helped avoid the GFC.
The Abbott/Turnbull gov' has now been in office for OVER FOUR years.
What will be their legacy? What will this government be remembered for, be able to say "hey we did this"?
Bob Hawke: Created Medicare. Grew the economy. Saved the Franklin.
Tony Abbott: Cut Medicare. Knighted a prince. Ate an onion.
Channelling Bill Hayden's comment about a drover's dog .........
..... "Howard got us into surplus." .....
A drover's dog could have got Australia into surplus (1.) flogging off any and every public asset off he could get his hands on and being in the right place and the right time to enjoy the benefits of (2.) all the Hawke/Keating economic reforms; and (3.) the continuous years of record tax receipts from the mining boom #1.
To correct the record on Howard the question to ask is what did he do with those record tax receipts? He did create a sovereign wealth fun which had a handy sum in it when he left office but the principle legacy Howard should be remembered for is how he wasted most of the tax and income bonanza of his term on on-going tax and welfare benefits for his middle and upper class backers that continues to dog the budget today.
While noting the daily failings of the current imbecilic government/PM history ought to judge Howard as our worse PM.
abbott.....first PM to fall for the old slippery handshake into follow through headbutt.
Guy, I absolutely agree...... But "legacy" is often "perception". And a great deal of sheep "perceive" Howard as the one who got rid of Labor's debt. Sure, he sold off everything, now we own nothing. But that's his "legacy".
So what do you believe to be the "crowning moment" so far for this current government?
I'll go out on a limb and say what I think Turdbuckle is hoping for..... He's hoping that the same sex marriage vote comes back with a "yes" win. because it's his only hope... Everything he touches turns to shit. But in say 15 years time, if he's still alive, he can say he was the pm that legalised SSM, even though he's nearly fucked that, too.
with Abbott I'm thinking we are yet to see his likely big legacy i.e. setting the wheels in motion that sees the LNP spilt like the ALP/DLP did ... man I hope I see that.
with Turnbull likely to be snowy 2.0 ...... and all his stuff ups e.g. NBN
both should be also remembered for the destruction of heavy manufacturing and the car industries.
that's all I got
Naaawwwwww poor Barnaby!!!!!!!! hahahahahahahahaha
Dont laugh sheepie hes potentially a Prime minister in waiting.........mmmm ..still he would have to be better than Big Bill Shortbread.......i think