The Israel Palestine problem solving thread
seeds wrote:https://youtu.be/2AfrGUgcCW4?si=1vrjSOVQa-COGnfQ
About religion or statehood? What lengths will you go for statehood? What religious doctrines will you ignore for statehood. Why the only religion on Earth that supposedly has a state?
Indo, this is a very good background from an Orthodox Jew who actually points the finger at Zionism as antisimetic(?). Worth a listen.
There has been some good videos posted in this very thread of academics and the like who are prepared to give context, wade through the bullshit and come to the conclusion that this is a mess of Israel’s own making. And the reasons why.
As opposed to taking everything that comes through the MSM as the truth. And the hysteria it creates by design.
Once again this is not support of Hamas but an understanding of the conditions that created an armed uprising.
And to try very hard to change my own tone. ( goofy made me think for a minute)
Have a nice day.
Yo, the other goof you're pulling by throwing up that anti-Israel stuff is you ain't clocking that you're getting dragged into Israel's internal politics.
Netanyahu's rivals are seizing the moment to kick him out of the driver's seat and snatch power for themselves. They're going all out with the political moves to make it happen, leveling up the politicking game.
Y'all be their tools, like the kings of cluelessness, straight up.
Go fuck yaself gr ;)
- netanyahu is a corrupt warmonger and a racist murdering dictator.
… and your head is still firmly up your own arse ;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUUSXNyYWVsIHBhbGVzdGluZSByYXA%3D goofyfoot wrote:One more thing before the threads all yours again..
This is your hero Lucy, the advocate for a right and just world, celebrating Hamas terrorists just before they started slaying people at that festival is it not??
Enjoy ya day
I'll be polite - she is very confused.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/feminists-are-consentin...
@green room Any opinion about the illegal settlements and the increased military presence that goes with it? Surely fuel on the fire?
"They're going all out with the political moves to make it happen, leveling up the politicking game."
That's just the beauty of democracy at work
This is worth a listen.....
This is worth a listen.....
elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
"Promised by God".......
Haha bonza ;)
- u farkn numpty… now u want to steal the ‘elephant in the room’ analogy…
That was first used here in relation to the warnings israel received before the oct 7 attack… and in regard to the delayed and botched response.
- the elephant in the room is actually the blind support for the systematic murder of civilian palestinian women and children, and how anyone who opposes the slaughter is being falsely branded as a jihadist supporter ;)
There has been a whopping disproportionate amount of killing in gaza…
- fact.
You’re getting the mice confused with elephants dumbo ;);)
- but, yeah… keep making up whatever bullshit u need to… ummm… keep making up your bullshit…
The hasbara occupation continues ;)
https://m.
https://m.
feel better mate?
… u can keep clutching at straws all u want ;)
bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
A lot of the innocent Palestinians that worked in Israel with and for those that were murdered gave detailed advice to Hamas on civilian homes and locations to aid in the initial killings. For months the innocent Palestinians had made maps to also assist in the killings. Zero force needed to get the info and it was handed over with glee.
…and you are a nobody ;)
https://m.
https://m.
bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
Imagine being a parent and your child is killed and you say
“ I'm proud. I'm full of pride that my son is following that path, thank God," she says”
bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
Samah says she'd be happy if her youngest son, four-year-old Bilal, became a militant.
"That's how the Palestinian people are. Each home offers two or three martyrs. We're used to this," she says.
… imagine being a nobody dill who just talks a lot of bullshit ;)
- oops… that’s actually the real deal for u… no imagination needed.
And with such a little brain and a big mouth ;)
…but …u gotta fit those elephant balls somewhere ;);)
https://m.
Two sides of the same coin dill…
- ooooooops ;)
Hard to see all angles with elephant dick n balls in ya face ;);)
https://m.
&pp=ygUiSXNyYWVsaXMgc2F5aW5nIGRlYXRoIHRvIGFsbCBhcmFicw%3D%3Dhttps://m.
&pp=ygUiSXNyYWVsaXMgc2F5aW5nIGRlYXRoIHRvIGFsbCBhcmFicw%3D%3D bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
Given that it was a survey of an imprisoned population and their sentiments on the prison break the results are hardly surprising. Ask your self would you support an uprising if your own suburb had been blanket bombed.
Labels such as terrorists and jihadist only seek to delegitimise the plight of an imprisoned population and manufactures consent for a disproportionate response without looking at the historical context of the problems with Palestine and Isreal.
That’s just what I think.
Roadkill wrote:bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
Samah says she'd be happy if her youngest son, four-year-old Bilal, became a militant.
"That's how the Palestinian people are. Each home offers two or three martyrs. We're used to this," she says.
Schools and infrastructure bombed, 50% unemployment. Living in a oppressive open air prison with the threat of death hanging over it like a storm cloud. What do you want them to do?
Parents of an imprisoned population talking about their children joining a military wing of a government you don’t like = bad.
Government conscription into the opposing occupying force= good
Is that the Elephant?
Many fought for freedom in the past but most didn't candidate their kids to become suicide bombers. There's a difference.
soggy - i was actually just trying to make a pretty simple yet somewhat controversial point. Hamas is a islamist jihadist death cult not just concerned with land but the complete annihilation of all jews worldwide. I don't think i need to spell out again what else they stand for and how they rule. The 'elephant in the room' comment that jelly got his knickers all in a knot about was that many people in the Palestinian population support and sympathise with this jihadist regime and their beliefs and other so called islamist freedom fighters (they are not freedom fighters - they are jihadists). That is a terrifying Middle Ages era ideology - a majority population willing to support and or wage jihad for their stupid beliefs. It was kinda evident when the dead bodies Hamas brought back were paraded through the streets to cheering mobs. But now the abc has just published a poll that weighs more into those observations.
you wanna blame Israel for that - that's fine. it's your view. i reckon your wrong
bonza wrote:goofyfoot wrote:One more thing before the threads all yours again..
This is your hero Lucy, the advocate for a right and just world, celebrating Hamas terrorists just before they started slaying people at that festival is it not??
Enjoy ya dayI'll be polite - she is very confused.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/feminists-are-consentin...
wow, I was about to say I was gonna give lucy a run, just for laugh...
clicked the link, saw it was 2 hrs + and thought fuck that...
came back to it and was impressed with the intro
will go back to it...
but geez... that is damning....
;)
https://m.
&pp=ygUOZWxlcGhhbnQgZnVubnk%3D I don’t think most sane people would wish for their children to be on the front line, cannon fodder. My take is, while I don’t agree with it, is it’s indicative of the desperation and despair of a population with a severely diminished future of possibilities and their plight against an overwhelming opposition force who also shows a complete lack of regard for humanity for the enemy (the civilian population) and also the actions they are asking of their own population. Think about what they’re asking their own soldiers to do.
People have spoken of the Hamas charter to eradicate Israel. “That is a terrible Middle-Ages ideology” Listening to Dr Norman Finkelstien yesterday I learnt something new. The Likud party. Bibi’s party and the current ruling party in Israel has a similar charter to eradicate any evidence of Palestine. It’s just not been as widely published. Again because it doesn’t fit the narrative that Isreal with the aid of the US are trying to promote so people unquestionably accept whatever response they deem fit.
Again I think pejorative labels only serve one side of the story.
I think the issue of resources hasn’t been fully discussed also. We’ve seen the nefarious activities that governments and companies engage in to extract resources from developing nations. That element has also been discussed by scholars in relation to this conflict.
soggydog wrote:Roadkill wrote:bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
Samah says she'd be happy if her youngest son, four-year-old Bilal, became a militant.
"That's how the Palestinian people are. Each home offers two or three martyrs. We're used to this," she says.
Schools and infrastructure bombed, 50% unemployment. Living in a oppressive open air prison with the threat of death hanging over it like a storm cloud. What do you want them to do?
but but but...
hamas created this environment as much as anyone...
whilst living in absolute opulance
there's shitloads of money been going into palestine for decades...
but hamas choose not to distribute it
they choose to blow it on themselves...
and bombs
To understand is not to condone......
sypkan wrote:soggydog wrote:Roadkill wrote:bonza wrote:elephant in the room - the whopping proportion of a population that supports jihadists.
"Hamas militants attacked Israel on October 7, killing an estimated 1,200 people and taking another 240 hostage.
The poll claimed 59.3 per cent of respondents in both Gaza and the West Bank supported the attack strongly, with a further 15.7 per cent of people supporting it somewhat".https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-30/hamas-gaining-popularity-in-west-...
Samah says she'd be happy if her youngest son, four-year-old Bilal, became a militant.
"That's how the Palestinian people are. Each home offers two or three martyrs. We're used to this," she says.
Schools and infrastructure bombed, 50% unemployment. Living in a oppressive open air prison with the threat of death hanging over it like a storm cloud. What do you want them to do?
but but but...
hamas created this environment as much as anyone...
whilst living in absolute opulance
there's shitloads of money been going into palestine for decades...
but hamas choose not to distribute it
they choose to blow it on themselves...
and bombs
All of that might be true except I would flip your words to……this environment ( withe the aid of Isreal let’s not forget) created Hamas
sypkan wrote:but hamas choose not to distribute it
they choose to blow it on themselves...
and bombs
A bit like green rooms mob
soggydog wrote:I don’t think most sane people would wish for their children to be on the front line, cannon fodder. My take is, while I don’t agree with it, is it’s indicative of the desperation and despair of a population with a severely diminished future of possibilities and their plight against an overwhelming opposition force who also shows a complete lack of regard for humanity for the enemy (the civilian population) and also the actions they are asking of their own population. Think about what they’re asking their own soldiers to do.
People have spoken of the Hamas charter to eradicate Israel. “That is a terrible Middle-Ages ideology” Listening to Dr Norman Finkelstien yesterday I learnt something new. The Likud party. Bibi’s party and the current ruling party in Israel has a similar charter to eradicate any evidence of Palestine. It’s just not been as widely published. Again because it doesn’t fit the narrative that Isreal with the aid of the US are trying to promote so people unquestionably accept whatever response they deem fit.Again I think pejorative labels only serve one side of the story.
I think the issue of resources hasn’t been fully discussed also. We’ve seen the nefarious activities that governments and companies engage in to extract resources from developing nations. That element has also been discussed by scholars in relation to this conflict.
Yes, there's an element of desperate population but there is also an element of radical jihadists willing to terrorise populations globally. Yes, you could say that radical Zionists are not better but that doesn't ignore the dangers of jihadism to Jews and more broadly, to us in Western countries.
to make excuses for behaviour is to condone
garyg1412 wrote:sypkan wrote:but hamas choose not to distribute it
they choose to blow it on themselves...
and bombs
A bit like green rooms mob
Yeah, a society in decline and they’re the ones paying for the bombs being dropped on the palistinian population on behalf of the Israeli’s. Not to mention the $100 billion going to Ukraine.
Your right Sypkan. There’s a bunch of wealthy people profiting from the corpse’s, again singling out one side doesn’t really get to the root of the problem does it?
There's been a couple of recent articles from the ABC that give a good outline of the situation
Netanyahus track record on the issue since he's been in politics shows he has been undermining Palestinian sovereignty from day one
"Clinton had been brutally clear to the Israelis that there should be no new settlements which eat up land earmarked for a Palestinian state. Clinton believed that every new settlement made a Palestinian state more difficult.
My six years living in Israel and travelling to the West Bank confirmed that view – Israel is small but the West Bank and Gaza (known by the Australian government as the Occupied Palestinian Territories) are smaller."
Also I didn't know that it was a Jewish extremist who assassinated the Israeli prime minister during the Oslo peace process as it seems all the blame has been put on the Palestinians for being the disrupting influence.
"Prime Minister and Defence Minister Yitzhak Rabin was slain in the wake of systematic incitement led and orchestrated by Netanyahu," the paper's journalist Sefi Rachlevsky wrote. "At the height of the incitement and under his direction, Netanyahu managed to turn a Zionist hero into a figure at which thousands of people shouted 'traitor.', with hoarse throats and leaps of hatred and ecstasy."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-27/gaza-netanyahu-vision-for-future-...
The second article gives a pretty good picture of life for Palestinians.
Think back to covid and look at how protestors lost their shit during the lockdowns which were only for a few months and minuscule by comparison to what the Palestinians having been living under for decades so there's no surprise about the reactions from the population over there
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-26/life-in-gaza-children-hospitality...
Without seeing both sides of the story there will no understanding of the problem and it seems clearer by the day that Netanyahu and his supporters have no intention of solving this in a way that takes into consideration the lives of Palestinians.The way they are going about levelling Gaza almost seems as if they are opening up the idea of not leaving anywhere for the Palestinians to live, which is what the far right of his government want, 'by the will of god'
Roadkill wrote:to make excuses for behaviour is to condone
It's a quote from the Hedge's video above.
I think he may have a lot more authority on why people do stuff in a war zone than you, as he is a Pulitzer prize winner in journalism and has spent many years in various war zones, including Gaza. Watch it and you may learn something apart from the tripe you continually post. My guess is you will not.
But hey you keep up the bigoted Islamophobia... They must be sub-human ey, without normal human traits.
Fliplid, Netanyahu has no plans of resolving this peacefully. His aim would be to make Gaza inhabitable so people leave and they can slowly move in. This is not a new strategy, it played out in many, many conflicts before this one and I witnessed it as a kid in a conflict I lived through.
sypkan wrote:bonza wrote:goofyfoot wrote:One more thing before the threads all yours again..
This is your hero Lucy, the advocate for a right and just world, celebrating Hamas terrorists just before they started slaying people at that festival is it not??
Enjoy ya dayI'll be polite - she is very confused.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/feminists-are-consentin...
wow, I was about to say I was gonna give lucy a run, just for laugh...
clicked the link, saw it was 2 hrs + and thought fuck that...
came back to it and was impressed with the intro
will go back to it...
but geez... that is damning....
I think she's just trying to make a point, but gone about it in probably an inconsiderate way @sypkan.
It's well worth a listen, even if just for a well laid out timeline of events to put things in perspective.
For all the haters she has, it can't be denied, she singlehandedly changed the way a whole world wide industry paid and treated women.
That's enough to give her hero status in my eyes.
Don't agree with everything she says (that Kirra longboard thing was a bit out of whack) but her hearts in the right place she's willing to put herself out there and accept the consequences. There's definitely nothing about her that makes me hate her with a vengeance like some others seem to, which makes me question their motives to be so hateful.
And i think the world needs people like her.
Flollo, could modern day jihadism be seen as a reaction to the Wests meddling in developing Muslim nations when trying to extract resources.
They’re a threat to us because the West is constantly trying to use its economic and military might to extract resources at the expense of local populations.
Again I’m not condoning violence. I’m just trying to understand the conditions that create these problems.
They’re not isolated to the Middle East, we can see the links to wealth/resource extraction in Ukraine. It’s been a pattern in South America and also SE Asia.
Always labelling local uprising with easily reductive pejoratives as “Communists and now Jihadists and Death Cults”
andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:to make excuses for behaviour is to condone
It's a quote from the Hedge's video above.
I think he may have a lot more authority on why people do stuff in a war zone than you, as he is a Pulitzer prize winner in journalism and has spent many years in various war zones, including Gaza. Watch it and you may learn something apart from the tripe you continually post. My guess is you will not.
But hey you keep up the bigoted Islamophobia... They must be sub-human ey, without normal human traits.
Well, Andy-but, there you go calling me Islamaphobic because I support Israel's right to defend itself...last week you were crying that just because you support the residents of Gaza does not make you antisemetic.
You do like to throw labels at people
garyg1412 wrote:sypkan wrote:but hamas choose not to distribute it
they choose to blow it on themselves...
and bombs
A bit like green rooms mob
totally!
same...
totally same same
but it is what it is....
and seems everybody wants to deal with current situation with a history lesson
a 'his' story lesson...
which doesn't really 'solve' anything
which is where greenroom surprises me
anyone but netanmayu in isreal would be an improvement
a two state solution is the only way to peace
and, israel ain't going anywhere
the sooner both bunkers realise this the better...
ain't looking good atm
Now I'm confused. Entitled first world feminists who need therapy if a man accidently brushes past their bum, but are silent, and complicit about the disgusting treatment of females in Muslim countries and now siding with the butchering savages who believe it is their god given right to rape and murder any women who steps out of line. Go figure. Imagine if Australia was surrounded by a giant cult whose sole aim was to wipe out and destroy us infidels. That said, I don't agree with the indiscriminate bombing by Israel, they have played right into the enemies hands and lost a lot of support.
soggydog wrote:Flollo, could modern day jihadism be seen as a reaction to the Wests meddling in developing Muslim nations when trying to extract resources.
They’re a threat to us because the West is constantly trying to use its economic and military might to extract resources at the expense of local populations.
Again I’m not condoning violence. I’m just trying to understand the conditions that create these problems.
They’re not isolated to the Middle East, we can see the links to wealth/resource extraction in Ukraine. It’s been a pattern in South America and also SE Asia.
Always labelling local uprising with easily reductive pejoratives as “Communists and now Jihadists and Death Cults”
Yeah, I would argue that there is an element of response to Western actions. But there is also a self-serving purpose, power, and of course, money for those who indoctrinate the local populace into extremist ideologies. Jihad is much older than the Western influence in these countries. It is a doctrine that will always be there, regardless of Western influence. West, led by the US can (and should) reduce its involvement in these regions. But that is not a guarantee of peace. Usually, when one power dies another one rises. And who will that be? I don't have an answer to that question but I'm pretty sure that someone will take over. Don't be naive, some terrible dictators in history were tolerated because their replacements were way worse than the dictatorships these dictators established.
sypkan wrote:garyg1412 wrote:sypkan wrote:but hamas choose not to distribute it
they choose to blow it on themselves...
and bombs
A bit like green rooms mob
totally!
same...
totally same same
but it is what it is....
and seems everybody wants to deal with current situation with a history lesson
a 'his' story lesson...
which doesn't really 'solve' anything
which is where greenroom surprises me
anyone but netanmayu in isreal would be an improvement
a two state solution is the only way to peace
and, israel ain't going anywhere
the sooner both bunkers realise this the better...
ain't looking good atm
Not 100% sure but I think Hamas and possibly the PA where content to go back to the agreed ‘67 borders which allocated 28% to the Palistinians. A pretty big concession if true. Bibi’s not having it I think.
Again a lot of the information is in some of the great links posted on this thread.
On a lighter note ad I should have mentioned this earlier. Just on my way back south. Went to the Foo Fighters last night. Fucken Epic! Dave Grohl is the king of Rock’n’Roll.
Roadkill wrote:andy-mac wrote:Roadkill wrote:to make excuses for behaviour is to condone
It's a quote from the Hedge's video above.
I think he may have a lot more authority on why people do stuff in a war zone than you, as he is a Pulitzer prize winner in journalism and has spent many years in various war zones, including Gaza. Watch it and you may learn something apart from the tripe you continually post. My guess is you will not.
But hey you keep up the bigoted Islamophobia... They must be sub-human ey, without normal human traits.Well, Andy-but, there you go calling me Islamaphobic because I support Israel's right to defend itself...last week you were crying that just because you support the residents of Gaza does not make you antisemetic.
You do like to throw labels at people
""A lot of the innocent Palestinians that worked in Israel with and for those that were murdered gave detailed advice to Hamas on civilian homes and locations to aid in the initial killings. For months the innocent Palestinians had made maps to also assist in the killings. Zero force needed to get the info and it was handed over with glee.""
Handed over with glee, yep you would know.
What death toll are you ok with in this so called defence?
And how is wiping out Gaza and killing 1000's of kids helping Israel protect itself?
Seems like creating more problems for them down the road.
^^^ my point exactly ^^^
they both need to go
netanmahyu will... eventually...
'democratically'
his days are numbered
only one way to get rid of hamas...
unfortunately
flollo wrote:soggydog wrote:Flollo, could modern day jihadism be seen as a reaction to the Wests meddling in developing Muslim nations when trying to extract resources.
They’re a threat to us because the West is constantly trying to use its economic and military might to extract resources at the expense of local populations.
Again I’m not condoning violence. I’m just trying to understand the conditions that create these problems.
They’re not isolated to the Middle East, we can see the links to wealth/resource extraction in Ukraine. It’s been a pattern in South America and also SE Asia.
Always labelling local uprising with easily reductive pejoratives as “Communists and now Jihadists and Death Cults”Yeah, I would argue that there is an element of response to Western actions. But there is also a self-serving purpose, power, and of course, money for those who indoctrinate the local populace into extremist ideologies. Jihad is much older than the Western influence in these countries. It is a doctrine that will always be there, regardless of Western influence. West, led by the US can (and should) reduce its involvement in these regions. But that is not a guarantee of peace. Usually, when one power dies another one rises. And who will that be? I don't have an answer to that question but I'm pretty sure that someone will take over. Don't be naive, some terrible dictators in history were tolerated because their replacements were way worse than the dictatorships these dictators established.
Yeah who fills the void is a question for both sides. Keep attacking the civilian population in an effort to oust Hamas. Who do you get next? A case of be careful of what you wish for.
At least some of the recent protests in Isreal give hope that that situation my change for the better.
soggydog wrote:Flollo, could modern day jihadism be seen as a reaction to the Wests meddling in developing Muslim nations when trying to extract resources.
They’re a threat to us because the West is constantly trying to use its economic and military might to extract resources at the expense of local populations.
Again I’m not condoning violence. I’m just trying to understand the conditions that create these problems.
They’re not isolated to the Middle East, we can see the links to wealth/resource extraction in Ukraine. It’s been a pattern in South America and also SE Asia.
Always labelling local uprising with easily reductive pejoratives as “Communists and now Jihadists and Death Cults”
It's a much older struggle than the current labels for it.
Just remember, if you beat and repress a people for long enough, you'll eventually uncover a liberal democrat right?
soggydog wrote:flollo wrote:soggydog wrote:Flollo, could modern day jihadism be seen as a reaction to the Wests meddling in developing Muslim nations when trying to extract resources.
They’re a threat to us because the West is constantly trying to use its economic and military might to extract resources at the expense of local populations.
Again I’m not condoning violence. I’m just trying to understand the conditions that create these problems.
They’re not isolated to the Middle East, we can see the links to wealth/resource extraction in Ukraine. It’s been a pattern in South America and also SE Asia.
Always labelling local uprising with easily reductive pejoratives as “Communists and now Jihadists and Death Cults”Yeah, I would argue that there is an element of response to Western actions. But there is also a self-serving purpose, power, and of course, money for those who indoctrinate the local populace into extremist ideologies. Jihad is much older than the Western influence in these countries. It is a doctrine that will always be there, regardless of Western influence. West, led by the US can (and should) reduce its involvement in these regions. But that is not a guarantee of peace. Usually, when one power dies another one rises. And who will that be? I don't have an answer to that question but I'm pretty sure that someone will take over. Don't be naive, some terrible dictators in history were tolerated because their replacements were way worse than the dictatorships these dictators established.
Yeah who fills the void is a question for both sides. Keep attacking the civilian population in an effort to oust Hamas. Who do you get next? A case of be careful of what you wish for.
At least some of the recent protests in Isreal give hope that that situation my change for the better.
Ideally, Netanyahu gets replaced by someone normal who is willing to deescalate and return to diplomacy. Hamas is awful but predictable with quality counterintelligence efforts. Hezbollah is a never ending threat. Both heavily backed by Iran. Regardless, Israel and Palestine can coexist if they manage to get rid of extremists. But sadly, that looks like an impossible task.
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