The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

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bluediamond started the topic in Sunday, 25 Jul 2021 at 1:26pm

Uni assignment i did a few years ago. This is my take on things. I'm sure this will ruffle many feathers. I hope so.
Love Blue Diamond x

The Necessity of Reparation for Historic Injustices

Introduction – Compensatory Justice
Disparities between the standards of living of humans on this planet have long been a part of our history on this planet. From the wealthy nations of the West to the developing and undeveloped nations on this globe, the diversity in the quality of life when viewed from a moral standpoint are without a doubt grossly unfair.
In this paper I will look at why historic injustices do require some form of reparation. I take a strong stance that we are more obliged to solve current injustices than to provide reparation for every act of injustice in the past. In doing this I will first investigate the historic injustice of the Aboriginal people of Australia and I will look at the argument that they are entitled to some form of reparation and why.
I will incoroporate some interesting views from Jeremy Waldron, Robert Nozick and others which will help me slowly build to my conclusion that reparation should be in the form of Non Indigenous Australians surrendering some of our priveleges as a form of reparation.

Historic Injustices to Indigenous Australians:
Australia the continent was well inhabited for many years long before white settlement. It is commonly known that in 1788 Australia was colonised as a country under the rule of the British Empire, with total contempt for the fact that it was already inhabited by a native indigenous race of people.
The way the original inhabitants have been treated, including forced assimilation, execution, stolen families and not even allowed to be recognised as citizens for a large part of white Australia’s history are also well known facts. (Poole, 1999,pp114-142)
There exists now a situation where there is a large divide between Aboriginal and non Aboriginal Australian’s that can be traced back to the moment Australia was invaded by English settlers and the brutal and unfair treatment that has followed.
So at this point now, in 2013 what is the just and fair way to make amends for past actions?
I would argue that a moderate to large amount of reparation is overdue for this nation of people, the Aboriginal people. But there are many challenges to this view point especially that of how much reparation, and what sort of compensation.

Past injustices or present suffering?
One of the questions raised in an issue like this is whether it is better to provide compensation or reparation for past deeds, which have already been done in a previous generation and cannot be changed, or whether it is better to now provide assistance to those who are suffering in their current situations and consider that as a form of moral duty.
To understand this we need to delve a little deeper into this issue and hear some differing viewpoints.
Firstly we need to understand what the best way to provide reparation. How do we judge what is the best way of giving back and how much? Jeremy Waldron states “The historic record has a fragility that consists, …in the sheer contingency of what happened in the past” (Waldron,1992,p5 )
This is saying that we can’t trace every single injustice back to the original act therefore reparation for every act would be almost impossible because it would ultimately be guess work.
In this statement he has an objection from Robert Nozick who believes it is in fact possible to address this problem by “changing the present so that it resembles how the past would have looked had the injustice not taken place” (McKenzie, 2013)
This would be a way to ultimately provide maximum reparation, but is it the correct approach? I believe this is a fairly radical approach, although it does have some merits in the fact it would be working in a positive way for indigenous people, I don’t think it is entirely the right way to deal with these issues but it is on the right track.
Waldron argues that it is based on too many unknowns. “The status of counterfactual reasoning about the exercising of human reasoning of human freedom is unclear”(Waldron 1993,p10)
Which leaves the question somewhat open about the sort of reparation that is required, but provides one clear answer to the key question. Both agree that yes, reparation to some extent is required. But how much and in what form?
Another philosopher who leans more towards Waldron’s views is Kymlicka. He is somewhat more straightforward in his assessment that property rights in particular for Aboriginals would create “massive unfairness” and also he maintains the argument “Aboriginal rights must be grounded in concerns about equality and contemporary disadvantage. (McKenzie, 2013) I agree with both these views but I don’t think they provide any active solutions.

The Solution?
So if its not handing back all of Australia’s land to the original inhabitants that is the most appropriate way to deal with past injustices, then what is?
I look at the current country I grew up in, as a white Australian. I ask myself why I never had Aboriginal friends growing up, no understanding of Aboriginal culture and why my basic understanding of Indigenous Australians is mostly 200 years old. I look at our flag, a symbol of a nation that stole a country from its original inhabitants, with no recognition of the Indigenous people at all on it. I see that Australia considered Indigenous people as less than people until only 40 years ago and I see the way that Indigenous Australians live a completely separate life to the way of life I know as an Australian. I see that the only indigenous politician I am aware of is a former Olympian and it is because of this fact of her sporting status that I know this. I see no collective power or representation of Indigenous Australians and I see non Indigenous Australians,( a culture built on a history of stealing a land and mistreating its people) still taking, taking as much out of this land as they can, with little to no regard of sharing or giving to the original inhabitants. I see a government that says lots of words about ‘closing the gap’ and bringing the living standards of non- indigenous and indigenous Australians closer together, but apart from nice words, there is no conviction, no follow through, just assimilation , and all that still remains are injustices.
As stated by Sparrow, “Continuity gives rise to responsibility on part of present generations of Australians for our history”.(McKenzie,2013). Although deeds happened in the past beyond our control, what we do now to either ignore, or rectify these issues will reflect on us in history. So if we choose to do nothing, we are contributing to the history of the mistreatment of non- indigenous Australians. And this is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

Conclusion
So what is fair? I believe that the way forward is a surrendering of some of our privileges as non- indigenous Australians. The simple fact is it was morally wrong without a doubt what has happened in the past. And it is also morally wrong without a doubt to ignore these facts and not offer some form of reparation in the present. But how much?
I think that going back to Robert Nozick’s argument is a start. I think Nozick is wrong to make the present resemble the past in every aspect. But I do think that it would be reasonable to restore some aspects of the way things should be. The things that happened in the past were out of our control and we can’t go back to changing the way things were. But we could change the way things are.
For some examples. Why not give at least 50% of political power to indigenous people? It surely would be a fair thing to do considering this is their country. Media control. 50 percent. Industry. Realestate. The list goes on. Why do we not acknowledge the indigenous people on our flag, or better still use their flag? Why is Australia still a part of the Commonwealth when it serves little purpose to any of us and serves as a constant reminder to Indigenous Australians that they are still controlled by the original invaders. These to me are fairly simple reparations that would have minimal impact on Australia as a whole. Perhaps, it would alter the way we live but I think it is our responsibility, morally to forfeit some of our privileges for the greater good. Basically a little bit goes a long way.
In closing, it is a fact that a huge injustice occurred to the Indigenous population and suffering continues to this day. There is no easy solution to such a burden of pain. I believe the only solutions are for the non- Indigenous population to take responsibility and sacrifice our own way of life to bring about an overall equality. Sacrifice is not an easy word. But it all comes down to right and wrong. We are in a position to give, in this current generation. What are we so scared to lose, that was never ours in the first place??

Bibliography
McKenzie,C.”Prof” (2013), Lecture, Historic Injustices and Indigenous Rights, Macquarie University
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

References
Poole, R. (1999). Nation and Identity.Routledge, London, pp.114-142
Waldron,J. (1992). ‘Superseding Historic Injustice’. Ethics, 103 (1), 4-28

Hutchy 19's picture
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Hutchy 19 Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 5:02pm

Killing whales is terrible imo . Whale oil made the industrial wheels spin before petroleum was discovered to work better and could be extracted .

The whalers were crazy brave and I would shit myself being on a Nantucket sleigh ( ride ? ) . Killing any large , smart animal for food it not me cup of tea . Any old customs and scientific study should get shafted and be stopped immediately .

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 5:14pm

If you did surf today, well face facts, it didn’t do you any good did it coz your back on here pronto with your BS (bum splatter). A surf ought to smooth the edges off even the perennially ignorant Shirley?

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Constance B Gibson Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 6:24pm

Tch, tch, tch, More history according to Blowin.

Drunk history?

Maybe you should ask your 'mate', Stuart, for the facts, ma'am, just the facts?

I always thought Factotum & MB were banned because they:

a) threatened fellow commenters with stalking and violence, also whilst sometimes intoxicated (and even bragging about this sad and sorry state of affairs)

b) their constant posting of unsavoury homophobic and misogynist slurs (calling Dr Freud) directed in deranged ad hominem attacks, including those directed at partners (with a decidedly racial tint, of course)

c) boorish, wilfully ignorant, and shamefully bigoted general comments simply submitted to inflame, and garner narcissistic attention.

Industrial strength bullshitting, whilst boring, is not a crime, so that can be left to slide.

Yes, things very noticeably improved once that kind of embarrassing rubbish was banished.

Erm...

It has, hasn't it, Swellnet team?

When will the penny drop??

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bluediamond Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 8:12pm
Blowin wrote:

The worst bit was that he didn’t even tell his mate Bluediamond that he’d quit of his own accord. He did this because he liked the idea of people talking about him and believing he was a brave, voiceless Martyr in the battle against tyranny.
The idea that he’d hung his mate Bluediamond out to dry and rail to his defence, whilst everyone else wondered what the fuck was going on, didn’t matter to Facto. To him exploiting Bluediamond’s misplaced loyalty and friendly concern was a small price to pay to have his toddler tantruming arse covered.

Run away ! Run away !

The glass chin of Facto is back. Right alongside Blindboy with his rubber spine. Twin tantrums screaming from the crib about how unfairly they’ve been treated.

Huh? This actually makes no sense to me blowie. Youre on your own on this one.
What i will say that's fact, is in one day you've managed to turn what was a good healthy conversation from lots of interesting contributors into an absolute shit show.
Im embarrassed to have created this thread after reading all your posts today. Absolutely disgraceful mate. I reckon you're better than that.

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GuySmiley Tuesday, 12 Oct 2021 at 9:30pm

See, even science supports the notion it’s a total waste of time engaging with the wilfully ignorant like @info .....

Aaaaw, your SN BSing days are up you giant plonker.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/is-there-any-point-in-arguing-with-pe...

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blindboy Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 6:55am

Yeh it would be a complete waste of time arguing with them if the aim was to persuade them, but really it was always more about diluting their raving lunacy with a bit of sense, with the added advantage of witnessing the hours of comedy gold the moronic collective have delivered. It also has had some anthropological interest.....the strange rites and rituals of the terminally deluded exposed in detail. It has been eye opening to watch how they rely on the constant repetition of just saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again. It is clear that it requires a constant psychological effort to believe things that the evidence, before their eyes, has so clearly disproved. And the way they go over and over the same circuitous routes which always turn out to be loops that take them back to their starting point, where, undeterred, they start all over again, somehow forcing themselves to believe that this time the path through the stinking piles of bullshit and propaganda will lead to the city of gold. Of course there is a breaking point where they collapse into complete incoherence and the symptoms of deeper disturbances such as rage or disassociation appear. But on they go into the darkness, battling against the tides of information, clinging to the battered raft of their wilful ignorance, drifting into ever shallower waters, ever closer to the rocks of reality. Sad and pathetic but somehow compelling to watch.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 9:37am
GuySmiley wrote:

See, even science supports the notion it’s a total waste of time engaging with the wilfully ignorant like @info .....

Aaaaw, your SN BSing days are up you giant plonker.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/is-there-any-point-in-arguing-with-pe...

I have highlighted why you are wilfully ignorant in detail, and that is because you wilfully ignore evidence proving your statements are factually incorrect.

The evidence is not my opinion, it's evidence from experts people who know history and culture far far better than you or I.

You on the other hand have provided zero evidence on why they are wrong and you are right, and zero evidence on how im wilfully ignorant because i agree with the expert's.

The clear issue for you, is you cant admit you are wrong, i think this is because you and some others here see yourself as being superior to others, to admit you a wrong just once would be way too much of a blow to your ego.

Blowin and BB argument that i haven't been following too greatly as seems to have just turned into a shit show, is a little different it's not really an issue that is black and white, it's more a difference of opinion.

Although i can clearly seen why Blowin believes BB view is hypocritical, and judging from what ive read i dont think BB ever really addressed Blowin's original point or brought any real counter argument to the table.

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blindboy Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 9:55am

Aaaah Kneecapper how touching, loyal to the end. But what are mates worth if they don't stick by you when you're wrong eh?

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 10:01am

Info, FFS. Quoting the JWC is outright cherry picking as I highlighted yesterday. Now I know you like a quick google so google ....

International Whale Commission + Vote buying + Japan + controversy

JWC + vote buying

JWC + controversy

The JWC, your chosen source of “expert advice” has zero credibility so stop your dishonest cherry picking.

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indo-dreaming Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 11:22am

Ive actually already provided two other seperate sources yesterday at 4:51, but here is some more. (again the JWC one)

JWC "12th Century
Hand-harpoon whaling starts in Japan"
https://www.whaling.jp/english/history.html

National geographic
"People have been whaling for thousands of years. Norwegians were among the first to hunt whales, as early as 4,000 years ago. The Japanese may have been doing so even earlier. "
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/big-fish-history-whaling/

Animal welfare institute
"Japan has a centuries-long history of small-scale coastal whaling, possibly even as far back as the Jomon period (10,000–300 BC). Large-scale whaling likely started around the late 17th century; by the middle of the 20th century, Japan—along with its European and American counterparts—was a leading industrial whaling nation."
https://awionline.org/content/japanese-whaling

BBC article
"A number of coastal communities in Japan have hunted whales for centuries"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48821797

And again from BBC

"The Japanese have been carrying out organised ocean whaling since the 10th Century and there are cave drawings dating back 5,500 years showing people of the Japanese islands hunting offshore whales with spears."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2051091.stm

Wikipedia
"The oldest written mention of whaling in Japanese records is from Kojiki, the oldest Japanese historical book, which was written in the 7th century CE. This book describes whale meat being eaten by Emperor Jimmu. In Man'yōshū, an anthology of poems from the 8th century CE, the word "Whaling" (いさなとり) was frequently used in depicting the ocean or beaches.

One of the first records of whaling using harpoons is from the 1570s at Morosaki, a bay attached to Ise Bay. This method of whaling spread to Kii (before 1606), Shikoku (1624), northern Kyushu (1630s), and Nagato (around 1672).

Kakuemon Wada, later known as Kakuemon Taiji, was said to have invented net whaling sometime between 1675 and 1677. This method soon spread to Shikoku (1681) and northern Kyushu (1684)

Using the techniques developed by Taiji, the Japanese mainly hunted four species of whale: the North Pacific right, the humpback, the fin, and the gray whale. They also caught the occasional blue, sperm, or sei/Bryde's whale ."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_whaling#Early_history

I mean come on these links arent just home made blogs ( i didnt bother adding those), or poorly researched media articles by some kid just out of Uni that has no knowledge of the topic and has to write a story one afternoon, or some bias Sea Shepard website story.

These are pretty reputable sources, if you aren't going to believe these links, i doubt you are going to believe any others i provide.

I mean come on dude, there is even cave paintings, artwork depictions of ancient Japanese whaling, stories even written legends in ancient books, what more do you want?

Anyway maybe we should just let this one rest.

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GuySmiley Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 12:27pm

Those links also show whaling in japan was a small localised tradition limited to just a few coastal villages, yes historical and culturally important but that is not to say this tradition of hunting/eating whales is Japanese wide as the JWC’s propaganda would have you believe (that’s BS). If you can be arsed also google the amount of whale meat that had to be frozen in warehouses because there was little domestic Japanese appetite for it. It’s suggested by some this is why japan stopped whaling as the warehouses were so full of unwanted whale meat there was no room for freshly slaughtered whales.

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Hutchy 19 Wednesday, 13 Oct 2021 at 1:56pm

The argument re when the Japs began whaling seems never ending .

Does it really matter if it was 200 or a thousand years ago ?

Everyone , Japs , Eskimo's , Aboriginals etc should stop hunting whales , Dugongs , Dolphins , Seals etc .

Anything that is endangered eg Turtles , Blu Fin Tuna etc . If their numbers explode then we can start again eg White Pointers .

I don't care if it is now part of their cultures . Change it back to when it wasn't . Time to change !

As was mentioned earlier many cultural practises need to stop now . The Inca's did human sacrifice FFS . These are unpalatable today . Female genital mutilation etc .

Surely everyone can agree on THIS issue ?

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brutus Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:08am

here Hutchy ,read this , how from a blackfellas perspective we need to heal, and why....and how!

I am not sure if you like poetry but I find it quite a beautiful poem, relevant to how to heal and become one Nation!

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/truth-telling-what-it-means-...

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Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:47am

Brutus - thanks for the article . Beautiful poem .

I think most people relate to the wonderful feeling of going home . When coming home from o/s the feeling started when getting on a Qantas plane . Seeing my family and friends .

It must be much more intense for an Aboriginal . Their closeness to the land is not something I think I can really understand . It would be very special .

The example of his grand mother not being able to buy a home is something we all can unfortunately experience . It will be hard for my children to do it .

This was the only suggestion I saw in the article on what to do now to make the future better of Aboriginals .

"I’m having a go at building a healing centre there so we can help heal this nation Australia. It feels right to do that. In some ways I am helping to fulfil my great-grandmother’s dreaming path."

A great idea ! I would like to discuss this more . Are they being built ? ETC .

But we need to do much more don't you think .

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blindboy Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 8:46am

A great read brutus. Truly belonging to country must be a wonderful thing.

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brutus Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 9:15am
blindboy wrote:

A great read brutus. Truly belonging to country must be a wonderful thing.

BB that's the vision for the future of every elder I have spoken to..........that We/Australians have an amazing culture and WE belong to our country......as I have said , there is not a blame game.....its understand our past and develop a National identity based on our First Nations , with the inclusion of all the western/eastern cultures that now live here.

How easy is it , if we drop out bias's and prejudice's and just be Australian!

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goofyfoot Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 9:19am

Hutchy19 - “ The example of his grand mother not being able to buy a home is something we all can unfortunately experience . It will be hard for my children to do it .”

Hutchy I may be mistaken but I took it as the grandmother wasn’t able to buy a home because she was Aboriginal. Not because she couldn’t afford it..

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 10:35am
Hutchy 19 wrote:

the Japs

What year is this?

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brutus Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 10:52am
Hiccups wrote:
Hutchy 19 wrote:

the Japs

What year is this?

yeah he wouldn't understand how much of an insult calling Japanese Japs is........I have personally experienced Foreign Shapers using the term , not knowing it's and insult.....getting to the Airport with their chauffer , he then hands them a letter , basically saying," thanks for your work, but we will not wanting you to come back to Japan again!"

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 11:00am

You can’t call them Japs! That’s as racist as calling an avocado an avo! Australians only shorten words cause we hate so many things - like barbies and our relies!

Hiccup knows this is hate speech and he’s defending the weak and innocent from internet comments. Stunning and brave.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 11:15am
Blowin wrote:

You can’t call them Japs! That’s as racist as calling an avocado an avo! Australians only shorten words cause we hate so many things - like barbies and our relies!

Hiccup knows this is hate speech and he’s defending the weak and innocent from internet comments. Stunning and brave.

Is that what you're doing? Defending the weak and innocent Hutchy19? How noble.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 11:39am
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

You can’t call them Japs! That’s as racist as calling an avocado an avo! Australians only shorten words cause we hate so many things - like barbies and our relies!

Hiccup knows this is hate speech and he’s defending the weak and innocent from internet comments. Stunning and brave.

Is that what you're doing? Defending the weak and innocent Hutchy19? How noble.

No. You’re being stunning and brave by defending a nation of 100million people from innocent Australian vernacular uttered by a sole person on the other side of the globe.

DC Comics might be interested in a character like yourself. They’re always on the lookout for a template for a new breed of Superhero.

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blindboy Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 11:40am

brutus, having moved to Yuin country a couple of years ago it made me think that it would be great to be able to access a welcome to country, a bit like a citizenship ceremony, that informed people of the history and culture as well as addressing sensitivities and any important sites they wished to inform people about. It would be a great privilege and help open up communication. But that would be up to the local elders.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 11:44am
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

You can’t call them Japs! That’s as racist as calling an avocado an avo! Australians only shorten words cause we hate so many things - like barbies and our relies!

Hiccup knows this is hate speech and he’s defending the weak and innocent from internet comments. Stunning and brave.

Is that what you're doing? Defending the weak and innocent Hutchy19? How noble.

No. You’re being stunning and brave by defending a nation of 100million people from innocent Australian vernacular uttered by a sole person on the other side of the globe.

DC Comics might be interested in a character like yourself. They’re always on the lookout for a template for a new breed of Superhero.

Another sick burn from everyone's favourite bloke what goes and says "bloke" a lot. Good work, bloke.

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Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 11:56am

Sorry I didn't realise that calling the Japanese Japs was offensive . Was just rushing a post ,

I do now see it could be offensive ( not meaning to be ) unlike Australians being Ozzies , American being yanks , Europeans being Euros or Danish being Danes .

I will not do it again . Thanks woke police . You are right this time .

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:31pm

Well done hutch. Blowin knows that distinction, but tried to play it off as otherwise, as he's a shit bloke.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:49pm

Hiccup….please describe to me why Jap is offensive. Perhaps you should frame it as though you are relating it to a Japanese person who had assumed that an Australian had merely abbreviated the word as they do every other word.

Remember….you are in 2021 when animosity towards Japanese people is basically nil amongst the Australian population, not 1953 when the horrors of WW2 were still in the minds of Australians.

I’ll make it easy and put it into context…..

Scene : Road to surf break in Indo*. Exchange between a surfer leaving the beach and another arriving .

Aussie surfer 1 : “How was it? Crowded?”

Aussie surfer 2 :” Yeah, pretty good. Crowd is mellow. A couple of Brazzos, a Jap or two , a few assorted Euros. Get out there mate.”

* Aplogies…..more derogatory terms apparently! I always forget how offensive the word “Indo” can be.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:50pm

Hmm. I'm coming around to your way of thinking. We legalised gay marriage. I guess we can bring back calling people "poofters" now. Maybe only to young gay fellas though. Y'know, the ones that are too young to remember it being thrown around liberally.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:57pm
Hiccups wrote:

Hmm. I'm coming around to your way of thinking. We legalised gay marriage. I guess we can bring back calling people "poofters" now. Maybe only to young gay fellas though. Y'know, the ones that are too young to remember it being thrown around liberally.

Poofters could be considered derogatory. Jap is a simple abbreviation.

I reckon you should come around to my way of thinking as you’re obviously bereft of any thinking of your own and instead you are forced to repeat, without analysis, things that you overheard others say. Cause you sure have no reason to considers Jap as anything offensive in 2021.

Do you consider it offensive to refer to a Balinese as a Balo? Do you get weepy when a Balo refers to you as a Bule? And Bule isn’t even a happy abbreviation.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:53pm

Fuck mate. You think animosity towards Asian people in Australia is basically nil? How interesting.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:54pm
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:

Hmm. I'm coming around to your way of thinking. We legalised gay marriage. I guess we can bring back calling people "poofters" now. Maybe only to young gay fellas though. Y'know, the ones that are too young to remember it being thrown around liberally.

Poofters could be considered derogatory. Jap is a simple abbreviation.

Fantastic disingenuous display. *golf clap*

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:58pm

You think all Asian’s are Japanese?

Give it up bloke.

Find the evil hate speech in that exchange between the surfers I provided as example.

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 12:58pm
Blowin wrote:

You think all Asian’s are Japanese?

Yes. All of them

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Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 1:01pm
Blowin wrote:

You think all Asian’s are Japanese?

Give it up bloke.

Find the evil hate speech in that exchange between the surfers I provided as example.

Who said it was evil hate speech? "Japs" is usually just casual racism. Of course, you know this.

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Supafreak Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 1:20pm

@blowin , I think you need to ask the race off people you’re referring to if they find it offensive, I personally find calling aborigines ‘abo,s’ offensive, you can say it’s a shortened word but it is , in my opinion , offensive.

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garyg1412 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 1:36pm

I think the time in history and the tone in which shortened populations names are used is what deems it offensive or not. When someone calls you an Aussie it conjures up thoughts of fun loving beer swilling larrikins probably from the day the world started watching Paul Hogan. Same with Euros, Brazzos, etc.
When someone calls you a Jap it generally conjures up images of emaciated Australians being abused by Japanese soldiers and was probably a polite term used by diggers of the day for an ethnic population they thought were real c$%#s. Which is probably why that term is considered offensive in today's changed world.

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Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 1:57pm

Here’s a novel thought : Just because one person finds a term offensive-by-proxy , it doesn’t make that term offensive. People trying to police language should mind their own Ps and Qs and stop trying to impose their arbitrary baggage on others. If you were Japanese and took offence I would gladly walk you through my reasons for using that word. You may still take offence but that comes down to imposing your culture over mine. I might agree to not refer to you personally using that term out of politeness but if I’m using the term in good faith I will continue to use it elsewhere. That’s life.

How many times do you hear the term White used as a perjorative these days? Every.Single.Day. Does anyone on here feel the need to step up and demand such obviously derogatory language is halted? No.

Yet here I am using a word in good faith and people try to vibe me for it? Pfffft. There’s loads of Japs. A hundred odd million or so. Some are good and some are bad, but it’s my culture to refer to them as Japs. That doesn’t make me a bad person.

Vic Local calls anyone with a slightly differing opinion a stupid dopey cunt. Does anyone suggest to him that others may take offence? Nope. If language is so subjective then I’ll just pick my language and you pick yours and let’s just forget the word fascism.

Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson's picture
Constance B Gibson Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:17pm

Oh dear...

On a positive note, October is National Mental Health Month:

https://www.mhfa.org.au/cms/national-mental-health-month-2021

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:21pm

Yes folks it's another sad and pathetic attempt at self-justification by the champ. Will anyone ever manage to go lower? Will he be able to top this outstanding example of his total disregard for respectful behaviour? Stay tuned for the next 30s to find out.

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:40pm

The question is ….would you really help if someone was struggling with mental health? I realise you think it’s a clever way to accuse someone of being crazy and to make fun of their potentially unstable mental state . Something you would never condone had i done so myself. Blindboy would never accept it either. But here you are both looking away as you punch down at someone you think is emotionally troubled.

Got a bit of “Can’t go any lower” approbation for that action, BB?

blindboy's picture
blindboy's picture
blindboy Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:46pm

Since you responded with hostility to my suggestion that you had mental health problems I assumed that you were somewhere in the general vicinity of normality. If you do have genuine problems my suggestion would be to get out of here for an extended period, which is what I did, and see a mental health professional, which I also did. If not, at the very least talk to someone who knows you well about the problem. Until then, when you post material attempting to justify insulting and degrading behaviour,you know what to expect in return.

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:51pm
Blowin wrote:

Here’s a novel thought : Just because one person finds a term offensive-by-proxy , it doesn’t make that term offensive.

It's not a novel thought though is it. Not even close. It's the same old tired excuse that gets thrown around every time some drongo starts banging on about "cancel culture" and "pc gone mad".

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:56pm

BB - you wrote this in response to a post ( that wasn't directed at you ) I made on the climate change thread .

"Hutchy you won't be advocating for net zero because you are profoundly ignorant.
You sound like you have lived your life in an intellectual puddle a couple of millimetres deep and have been such a loud mouth self opinionated fuckwit that people just gave up on trying to draw your attention that it is no longer 1973."

Perhaps this comment you made could be directed to you ?

"Since you responded with hostility to my suggestion that you had mental health problems I assumed that you were somewhere in the general vicinity of normality. If you do have genuine problems my suggestion would be to get out of here for an extended period, which is what I did, and see a mental health professional, which I also did. If not, at the very least talk to someone who knows you well about the problem."

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 2:57pm

No mental health problems here. Stuck around here for a few days and spending more time on the internet than I should. But reading is sort of boring me and I want to write thanks to over caffeination. Rain clearing so I might be able to get a bit of work around here done once things dry out. Northerly pumping.

A bit bored more than anything but I’m tied within the vicinity of a couple of rooms. Doing a bit of research on some projects. A few callisthenics here and there.

Mental health pretty damn good thanks to diet , exercise, clean living and no stress.

I must always come over angrier on here than I hardly ever am. The insulting shit is usually a bit of a piss take. I do think there’s one truely dull individual on here amongst the few I don’t gel with. I reckon that in real life I’d get along with most on here and the shitfights are superficial.

See what I mean about writing….

Blowin's picture
Blowin's picture
Blowin Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:03pm
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

Here’s a novel thought : Just because one person finds a term offensive-by-proxy , it doesn’t make that term offensive.

It's not a novel thought though is it. Not even close. It's the same old tired
excuse that gets thrown around every time some drongo starts banging on about "cancel culture" and "pc gone mad".

A smart fella would assess each instance on its merits and not divide the world into two camps- White hatted Pure hearted saviours vs Black hatted evil unrestrained.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe someone who doesn’t want to talk ill of an entire nation of people may still refer to them as Japs? Did you ever stop and put something into context and when they actually tell you straight out that it’s not intended to be offensive, you actually give them credit to talk they way they see fit?

Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19's picture
Hutchy 19 Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:08pm

I have mentioned on this thread to Blue D that I was offended at being asked to not think like an old WHITE man .

I told him so but it made no difference so I got over it .

Vic Local's picture
Vic Local's picture
Vic Local Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:11pm

Wow, imagine a world where blowin gets to determine what is and isn't a racist term.
Blowin gets to call people whatever he likes, and if they take offence, blowin gets to say "just because you find a term offensive, it doesn’t make that term offensive."
Fuck me blowin, you're like a character out of the 1970s show Kingswood Country or On the Buses from the UK.

overthefalls's picture
overthefalls's picture
overthefalls Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:14pm

Hiccups's picture
Hiccups's picture
Hiccups Thursday, 14 Oct 2021 at 3:15pm
Blowin wrote:
Hiccups wrote:
Blowin wrote:

Here’s a novel thought : Just because one person finds a term offensive-by-proxy , it doesn’t make that term offensive.

It's not a novel thought though is it. Not even close. It's the same old tired
excuse that gets thrown around every time some drongo starts banging on about "cancel culture" and "pc gone mad".

A smart fella would assess each instance on its merits and not divide the world into two camps- White hatted Pure hearted saviours vs Black hatted evil unrestrained.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe someone who doesn’t want to talk ill of an entire nation of people may still refer to them as Japs? Did you ever stop and put something into context and when they actually tell you straight out that it’s not intended to be offensive, you actually give them credit to talk they way they see fit?

I find it hard to believe that anyone that considers themselves clever, as your fart-sniffing self obviously does, wouldn't see fit to alter their language in even the smallest of ways, knowing why a certain term is offensive, and has been for a long time. Maybe they're not as switched on as they think they are. Maybe they've just reached a point in their life where they're so resistant to changing anything about their personality, no matter how odious, that they don't care if they're on the wrong side of history.